Discussion:
the Claridge's Hotel
(too old to reply)
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-12 03:37:57 UTC
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From an email from the German-international publisher Taschen:

"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.

"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.

"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.

"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!

"Sales contact: Nolan Browne, ***@taschen.com or tel +44-207-8810795"

Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
Tony Cooper
2017-08-12 05:00:54 UTC
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On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.

There is, by the way "The Claridge Hotel" in Atlantic City, New
Jersey. It is owned by TJM Properties and is a Radisson hotel, so
it's not Claridge's.

What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Harrison Hill
2017-08-12 05:35:08 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
There is, by the way "The Claridge Hotel" in Atlantic City, New
Jersey. It is owned by TJM Properties and is a Radisson hotel, so
it's not Claridge's.
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
I don't think BrE has the verb "to curate" at all - my COD doesn't.

We have a "curator" (noun - not so very different from a "curate")
who is a minor official, the person "keeping charge". When you walk
into an art gallery or museum, the "curators" are the people sitting
on chairs, looking at their watches - waiting for the long hours
to pass.
Janet
2017-08-12 11:58:11 UTC
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Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
There is, by the way "The Claridge Hotel" in Atlantic City, New
Jersey. It is owned by TJM Properties and is a Radisson hotel, so
it's not Claridge's.
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
I don't think BrE has the verb "to curate" at all -
Of course we do and it's in common use. It's the highly specialised
conservation, research and cataloguing work that professional curators
do behind the scenes in museums, art galleries. historic houses and
collections.


Janet.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-08-12 12:13:38 UTC
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Post by Janet
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
There is, by the way "The Claridge Hotel" in Atlantic City, New
Jersey. It is owned by TJM Properties and is a Radisson hotel, so
it's not Claridge's.
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
I don't think BrE has the verb "to curate" at all -
Of course we do and it's in common use. It's the highly specialised
conservation, research and cataloguing work that professional curators
do behind the scenes in museums, art galleries. historic houses and
collections.
It is also used in BrE in a wider sense:
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/curate#curate_Verb_200

verb
[with object]

1 Select, organize, and look after the items in (a collection or
exhibition)
‘both exhibitions are curated by the Centre's director’

1.1 Select the performers or performances that will feature in (an
arts event or programme)
‘in past years the festival has been curated by the likes of
David Bowie’

1.2 Select, organize, and present (online content, merchandise,
information, etc.), typically using professional or expert
knowledge.
‘people not only want to connect when using a network but they
also enjoy getting credit for sharing or curating information’
‘a curated alternative to the world's most popular video portal’
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-12 14:21:39 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Janet
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Tony Cooper
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
I don't think BrE has the verb "to curate" at all -
Of course we do and it's in common use. It's the highly specialised
conservation, research and cataloguing work that professional curators
do behind the scenes in museums, art galleries. historic houses and
collections.
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/curate#curate_Verb_200
verb
[with object]
1 Select, organize, and look after the items in (a collection or
exhibition)
‘both exhibitions are curated by the Centre's director’
1.1 Select the performers or performances that will feature in (an
arts event or programme)
‘in past years the festival has been curated by the likes of
David Bowie’
1.2 Select, organize, and present (online content, merchandise,
information, etc.), typically using professional or expert
knowledge.
‘people not only want to connect when using a network but they
also enjoy getting credit for sharing or curating information’
‘a curated alternative to the world's most popular video portal’
It's gotten worse than that. I've now seen anthologies of poetry or short
stories that are "curated" by folks who until last year we would have called
"editors."
LFS
2017-08-13 06:21:14 UTC
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Post by Janet
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
There is, by the way "The Claridge Hotel" in Atlantic City, New
Jersey. It is owned by TJM Properties and is a Radisson hotel, so
it's not Claridge's.
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
I don't think BrE has the verb "to curate" at all -
Of course we do and it's in common use. It's the highly specialised
conservation, research and cataloguing work that professional curators
do behind the scenes in museums, art galleries. historic houses and
collections.
Someone recently told me that accountants curate uncertainty.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Janet
2017-08-12 11:37:30 UTC
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In article <***@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
There is, by the way "The Claridge Hotel" in Atlantic City, New
Jersey. It is owned by TJM Properties and is a Radisson hotel, so
it's not Claridge's.
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
I can't think why, as Taschen books are sold in shops all over
Britain, it's a very well known publisher of what's known here as
coffee table books.

Janet
Jerry Friedman
2017-08-12 13:50:12 UTC
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Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
...
Post by Janet
Post by Tony Cooper
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
I can't think why, as Taschen books are sold in shops all over
Britain, it's a very well known publisher of what's known here as
coffee table books.
That's what they're known as here in the U.S. too.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-12 14:19:16 UTC
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Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
There is, by the way "The Claridge Hotel" in Atlantic City, New
We stayed there in 1965, the year after it had been where LBJ stayed during
the Democratic National Convention that nominated him for president.
Post by Janet
Post by Tony Cooper
Jersey. It is owned by TJM Properties and is a Radisson hotel, so
it's not Claridge's.
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
Try to keep up. "Curated" is the _mot du jour_ for 'selected'.

And as for the claim that "the Claridge's" is ordinary and acceptable in BrE,
see the responses from every BrE-speaker who replied, except (not surprisingly)
HH.
Post by Janet
I can't think why, as Taschen books are sold in shops all over
Britain, it's a very well known publisher of what's known here as
coffee table books.
Having been to the tiny Taschen store in the VERY fashionable (gentrified)
neighborhood of NoHo in Manhattan, I'd guess it's because (a) they can charge
the list price for all their books and (b) as you can see from the London
locations, they like to establish a presence in VERY fashionable areas, which
is the only place where people can afford many of their products.

I welcome being on their mailing list (they also send a sumptuous magazine-
catalog a couple of times a year) because from time to time they have half-
price sales on "damaged amd display copies," but the several items I've ordered
from such sales have shown no evidence of damage or shopwornness (a few weeks
ago, a gorgeous facsimile of the 1534 first complete edition of Luther's Bible,
from a copy in Weimar with every woodcut hand-tinted (rather garishly). From
which I made the generally not mentioned discoveries that the v/u initial/
medial distinction (known from Latin, English, French) was observed in German
printing as well -- and that the only punctuation mark was the virgule (slash),
which appears where later either commas or periods were used. The price for
this 2-volume 1000-or-more page (the folios aren't numbered) masterpiece plus
paperbound book of commentary published in 2002 and Englished in 2016, all in a
sturdy slipcase? $35.

Moreover, unlike with any other bookseller I've ever ordered from, the items
have been delivered THE NEXT MORNING.
Tony Cooper
2017-08-12 14:42:04 UTC
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On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:19:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
And as for the claim that "the Claridge's" is ordinary and acceptable in BrE,
see the responses from every BrE-speaker who replied, except (not surprisingly)
HH.
You must have missed reading - above - where I said the "the" is
omitted when the word "hotel" is omitted.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-12 14:55:38 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:19:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
And as for the claim that "the Claridge's" is ordinary and acceptable in BrE,
see the responses from every BrE-speaker who replied, except (not surprisingly)
HH.
You must have missed reading - above - where I said the "the" is
omitted when the word "hotel" is omitted.
Oh, the illiteracy. It is also omitted when the word "hotel" is present. The
word "hotel" is not the significant feature, but the presence of a possessive
in the "determiner" slot. English doesn't tolerate two "determinters" in a
single noun phrase.
b***@aol.com
2017-08-12 16:26:23 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:19:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
And as for the claim that "the Claridge's" is ordinary and acceptable in BrE,
see the responses from every BrE-speaker who replied, except (not surprisingly)
HH.
You must have missed reading - above - where I said the "the" is
omitted when the word "hotel" is omitted.
Oh, the illiteracy. It is also omitted when the word "hotel" is present. The
word "hotel" is not the significant feature, but the presence of a possessive
in the "determiner" slot. English doesn't tolerate two "determinters" in a
single noun phrase.
How about "phrases like "my butcher's shop"? (Where "butcher's is a "generic
genitive", i.e. the phrase doesn't mean "the shop of my butcher.)
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-12 18:02:09 UTC
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Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Oh, the illiteracy. It is also omitted when the word "hotel" is present. The
word "hotel" is not the significant feature, but the presence of a possessive
in the "determiner" slot. English doesn't tolerate two "determinters" in a
single noun phrase.
How about "phrases like "my butcher's shop"? (Where "butcher's is a "generic
genitive", i.e. the phrase doesn't mean "the shop of my butcher.)
Over Here we say "I prefer to buy beef at my butcher shop, not my supermarket."

"The butcher's shop is next door to the grocer's shop" does indeed mean "the
shop of the butcher / the shop of the grocer."
Tony Cooper
2017-08-12 19:46:18 UTC
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On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 11:02:09 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Oh, the illiteracy. It is also omitted when the word "hotel" is present. The
word "hotel" is not the significant feature, but the presence of a possessive
in the "determiner" slot. English doesn't tolerate two "determinters" in a
single noun phrase.
How about "phrases like "my butcher's shop"? (Where "butcher's is a "generic
genitive", i.e. the phrase doesn't mean "the shop of my butcher.)
Over Here we say "I prefer to buy beef at my butcher shop, not my supermarket."
Well, maybe there. Many of us would say ""I prefer to buy beef at a
butcher shop, not at a supermarket.". Unless we own a butcher shop
and a supermarket.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-12 19:50:08 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 11:02:09 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Oh, the illiteracy. It is also omitted when the word "hotel" is present. The
word "hotel" is not the significant feature, but the presence of a possessive
in the "determiner" slot. English doesn't tolerate two "determinters" in a
single noun phrase.
How about "phrases like "my butcher's shop"? (Where "butcher's is a "generic
genitive", i.e. the phrase doesn't mean "the shop of my butcher.)
Over Here we say "I prefer to buy beef at my butcher shop, not my supermarket."
Well, maybe there. Many of us would say ""I prefer to buy beef at a
butcher shop, not at a supermarket.". Unless we own a butcher shop
and a supermarket.
God you're dumb.

The query was about an equivalent of the phrase "my butcher's shop," not "a butcher's shop," and it was specified that it did not refer to ownership.
Peter Young
2017-08-12 21:01:57 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 11:02:09 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Oh, the illiteracy. It is also omitted when the word "hotel" is present. The
word "hotel" is not the significant feature, but the presence of a possessive
in the "determiner" slot. English doesn't tolerate two "determinters" in a
single noun phrase.
How about "phrases like "my butcher's shop"? (Where "butcher's is a "generic
genitive", i.e. the phrase doesn't mean "the shop of my butcher.)
Over Here we say "I prefer to buy beef at my butcher shop, not my supermarket."
Well, maybe there. Many of us would say ""I prefer to buy beef at a
butcher shop, not at a supermarket.". Unless we own a butcher shop
and a supermarket.
God you're dumb.
Why should God be dumb? I'm sure He would forgive you the missing
comma, if you would repent its omission.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-12 21:44:47 UTC
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Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 11:02:09 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Oh, the illiteracy. It is also omitted when the word "hotel" is present. The
word "hotel" is not the significant feature, but the presence of a possessive
in the "determiner" slot. English doesn't tolerate two "determinters" in a
single noun phrase.
How about "phrases like "my butcher's shop"? (Where "butcher's is a "generic
genitive", i.e. the phrase doesn't mean "the shop of my butcher.)
Over Here we say "I prefer to buy beef at my butcher shop, not my supermarket."
Well, maybe there. Many of us would say ""I prefer to buy beef at a
butcher shop, not at a supermarket.". Unless we own a butcher shop
and a supermarket.
God you're dumb.
Why should God be dumb? I'm sure He would forgive you the missing
comma, if you would repent its omission.
The form not being a vocative, the comma is not called for and the observation
is not blasphemous.
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
2017-08-12 22:08:33 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
God you're dumb.
When will you fuckin' slob finally learn to put a comma after "God"?

God, you're stupid! God, you're an asshole!

See the incompetent "editor":
http://aman.members.sonic.net/PeteY-Doody.jpg
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
b***@aol.com
2017-08-13 00:25:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Oh, the illiteracy. It is also omitted when the word "hotel" is present. The
word "hotel" is not the significant feature, but the presence of a possessive
in the "determiner" slot. English doesn't tolerate two "determinters" in a
single noun phrase.
How about "phrases like "my butcher's shop"? (Where "butcher's is a "generic
genitive", i.e. the phrase doesn't mean "the shop of my butcher.)
Over Here we say "I prefer to buy beef at my butcher shop, not my supermarket."
"The butcher's shop is next door to the grocer's shop" does indeed mean "the
shop of the butcher / the shop of the grocer."
But I suppose you don't say "a women tennis match" instead of "a women's
tennis match", for instance?

As I see it, "the Claridge's hotel" is an instance where a "classifying"
(aka "generic") genitive supersedes the initial "specifying" genitive - with
"a Claridge's hotel" becoming a subclass of hotel, just as "a woman's hat"
is a subclass of hat.
David Kleinecke
2017-08-12 18:09:28 UTC
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Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:19:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
And as for the claim that "the Claridge's" is ordinary and acceptable in BrE,
see the responses from every BrE-speaker who replied, except (not surprisingly)
HH.
You must have missed reading - above - where I said the "the" is
omitted when the word "hotel" is omitted.
Oh, the illiteracy. It is also omitted when the word "hotel" is present. The
word "hotel" is not the significant feature, but the presence of a possessive
in the "determiner" slot. English doesn't tolerate two "determinters" in a
single noun phrase.
How about "phrases like "my butcher's shop"? (Where "butcher's is a "generic
genitive", i.e. the phrase doesn't mean "the shop of my butcher.)
"My butcher's shop" is, of course, ambiguous between
(My butcher)'s shop
My (butcher's shop)
In (butcher's shop) the "possessive" is not the possessive of
possession. It is a form of speech (idiom?) that is rather common
but may not be productive.
Harrison Hill
2017-08-12 20:03:16 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:19:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
And as for the claim that "the Claridge's" is ordinary and acceptable in BrE,
see the responses from every BrE-speaker who replied, except (not surprisingly)
HH.
You must have missed reading - above - where I said the "the" is
omitted when the word "hotel" is omitted.
Oh, the illiteracy. It is also omitted when the word "hotel" is present. The
word "hotel" is not the significant feature, but the presence of a possessive
in the "determiner" slot. English doesn't tolerate two "determinters" in a
single noun phrase.
How about "phrases like "my butcher's shop"? (Where "butcher's is a "generic
genitive", i.e. the phrase doesn't mean "the shop of my butcher.)
"My butcher's shop" is, of course, ambiguous between
(My butcher)'s shop
My (butcher's shop)
In (butcher's shop) the "possessive" is not the possessive of
possession. It is a form of speech (idiom?) that is rather common
but may not be productive.
This is like one of navi's distinctions.

If "(My butcher)'s shop" is distinct from "My (butcher's
shop), then it can only be because your butcher's shop is
owned or run by somebody who could turn out not to be your
butcher?

Your hairdresser might own your butcher's shop. By no means
impossible, and something to give navi pause for thought.
Is it however run by your hairdresser? Or is it run by his
butcher?
David Kleinecke
2017-08-13 01:31:12 UTC
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Post by Harrison Hill
Post by David Kleinecke
"My butcher's shop" is, of course, ambiguous between
(My butcher)'s shop
My (butcher's shop)
In (butcher's shop) the "possessive" is not the possessive of
possession. It is a form of speech (idiom?) that is rather common
but may not be productive.
This is like one of navi's distinctions.
If "(My butcher)'s shop" is distinct from "My (butcher's
shop), then it can only be because your butcher's shop is
owned or run by somebody who could turn out not to be your
butcher?
Your hairdresser might own your butcher's shop. By no means
impossible, and something to give navi pause for thought.
Is it however run by your hairdresser? Or is it run by his
butcher?
I don't think you have right.

"(My butcher)'s shop" means the shop of the butcher I usually
patronize. "My (butcher's shop)" means the butcher shop that
I own / operate.
Peter Moylan
2017-08-13 00:52:28 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
"My butcher's shop" is, of course, ambiguous between
(My butcher)'s shop
My (butcher's shop)
In (butcher's shop) the "possessive" is not the possessive of
possession. It is a form of speech (idiom?) that is rather common
but may not be productive.
Why is it not the possessive of possession? In both cases the butcher
owns (or possibly rents) the shop.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
David Kleinecke
2017-08-13 01:38:53 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
"My butcher's shop" is, of course, ambiguous between
(My butcher)'s shop
My (butcher's shop)
In (butcher's shop) the "possessive" is not the possessive of
possession. It is a form of speech (idiom?) that is rather common
but may not be productive.
Why is it not the possessive of possession? In both cases the butcher
owns (or possibly rents) the shop.
Hum. To me "butcher's shop" is not a reference to the
proprietor of the shop to rather to a shop where butchery
is practiced. Unless, of course, the butcher themself were
already in context. Perhaps we have a triple ambiguity here.
Peter Moylan
2017-08-13 01:52:38 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
"My butcher's shop" is, of course, ambiguous between
(My butcher)'s shop
My (butcher's shop)
In (butcher's shop) the "possessive" is not the possessive of
possession. It is a form of speech (idiom?) that is rather common
but may not be productive.
Why is it not the possessive of possession? In both cases the butcher
owns (or possibly rents) the shop.
Hum. To me "butcher's shop" is not a reference to the
proprietor of the shop to rather to a shop where butchery
is practiced. Unless, of course, the butcher themself were
already in context. Perhaps we have a triple ambiguity here.
I do have that distinction between a grocer's shop and a grocery. A
grocer's shop is one that is run by a grocer. A grocery is where grocery
is practiced.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Tony Cooper
2017-08-13 03:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 11:52:38 +1000, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
"My butcher's shop" is, of course, ambiguous between
(My butcher)'s shop
My (butcher's shop)
In (butcher's shop) the "possessive" is not the possessive of
possession. It is a form of speech (idiom?) that is rather common
but may not be productive.
Why is it not the possessive of possession? In both cases the butcher
owns (or possibly rents) the shop.
Hum. To me "butcher's shop" is not a reference to the
proprietor of the shop to rather to a shop where butchery
is practiced. Unless, of course, the butcher themself were
already in context. Perhaps we have a triple ambiguity here.
I do have that distinction between a grocer's shop and a grocery. A
grocer's shop is one that is run by a grocer. A grocery is where grocery
is practiced.
It would seem, since they sell the same stuff day-after-day, that they
would have enough practice.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter Moylan
2017-08-13 05:22:06 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 11:52:38 +1000, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
Hum. To me "butcher's shop" is not a reference to the
proprietor of the shop to rather to a shop where butchery
is practiced. Unless, of course, the butcher themself were
already in context. Perhaps we have a triple ambiguity here.
I do have that distinction between a grocer's shop and a grocery. A
grocer's shop is one that is run by a grocer. A grocery is where grocery
is practiced.
It would seem, since they sell the same stuff day-after-day, that they
would have enough practice.
That's not as worrying as at a medical practice.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Richard Tobin
2017-08-13 00:58:00 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
In (butcher's shop) the "possessive" is not the possessive of
possession. It is a form of speech (idiom?) that is rather common
but may not be productive.
I think it is. A friend recently sent a CAD model to the 3d
printer's for printing.

-- Richard
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
2017-08-12 16:55:08 UTC
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Raw Message
English doesn't tolerate two "determinters" in a single noun phrase.
*Competent* editors and *standard* English also don't tolerate
PeteY-English "determinters."

See the sloppy "editor":
Loading Image...
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Don Phillipson
2017-08-13 18:45:13 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
You must have missed reading - above - where I said the "the" is
omitted when the word "hotel" is omitted.
Oh, the illiteracy. It is also omitted when the word "hotel" is present. The
word "hotel" is not the significant feature, but the presence of a possessive
in the "determiner" slot. English doesn't tolerate two "determinters" in a
single noun phrase.
Both respondents appear mistaken. If British hotel names are subject
to any rule, it seems to be that those named for persons (real or notional
do not use the definite article The. Claridge's is correctly named as
either
Claridge's Hotel or Claridge's (and Brown's is either Brown's or Brown's
Hotel;) the Regent Palace Hotel is (was) correctly named either The Regent
Palace or The Regent Palace Hotel.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
HVS
2017-08-12 15:06:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:19:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the
opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and
the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide. "Located in the Claridge?s
hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and
limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth,
Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more. "Stay tuned for more
on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward
or tel +44-207-8810795" Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne"
sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is
perfectly normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the
Claridge's hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word
"hotel" is omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if
the writer felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a
hotel.
And as for the claim that "the Claridge's" is ordinary and acceptable
in BrE, see the responses from every BrE-speaker who replied, except
(not surprisingly) HH.
You must have missed reading - above - where I said the "the" is
omitted when the word "hotel" is omitted.
But when it's a possessive name, the "the" is omitted whether or not the
word "hotel" appears (and regardless of capitalising).

I've posted elsethread that I can't think of any sentence construction
where "The Claridge's hotel" or "The Brown's hotel" would sound natural;
I'd be interested to know if anyone other RightPondian can think of one.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-12 17:59:30 UTC
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Post by HVS
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:19:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the
opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and
the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide. "Located in the Claridge?s
hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and
limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth,
Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more. "Stay tuned for more
on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward
or tel +44-207-8810795" Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne"
sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is
perfectly normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the
Claridge's hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word
"hotel" is omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if
the writer felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a
hotel.
And as for the claim that "the Claridge's" is ordinary and acceptable
in BrE, see the responses from every BrE-speaker who replied, except
(not surprisingly) HH.
You must have missed reading - above - where I said the "the" is
omitted when the word "hotel" is omitted.
But when it's a possessive name, the "the" is omitted whether or not the
word "hotel" appears (and regardless of capitalising).
I've posted elsethread that I can't think of any sentence construction
where "The Claridge's hotel" or "The Brown's hotel" would sound natural;
I'd be interested to know if anyone other RightPondian can think of one.
Suppose Claridge's becomes a (very fashionable) hotel chain, with premises in
several fashionable cities. Then you would say "We stayed at the Claridge's
Hotel in Edinburgh. It wasn't quite so suitable as the Claridge's Hotel in
London."

That works because the determiner "the" isn't attached to the noun phrase
"Claridge's Hotel," which already has a determiner, but rather to the larger
noun phrase "Claridge's Hotel in London," which doesn't otherwise have a
determiner.
Peter Moylan
2017-08-13 00:45:22 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:19:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
And as for the claim that "the Claridge's" is ordinary and acceptable in BrE,
see the responses from every BrE-speaker who replied, except (not surprisingly)
HH.
You must have missed reading - above - where I said the "the" is
omitted when the word "hotel" is omitted.
Yes, but the point is that "the" is also omitted when the word "hotel"
is present. That is, "the Claridge's hotel" is almost always wrong.

I say "almost always" because I can think of exceptions. You would use
"the" in a sentence like "I mean the Claridge's hotel in Glasgow, not
the one in London".
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Harrison Hill
2017-08-13 01:07:34 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:19:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
And as for the claim that "the Claridge's" is ordinary and acceptable in BrE,
see the responses from every BrE-speaker who replied, except (not surprisingly)
HH.
You must have missed reading - above - where I said the "the" is
omitted when the word "hotel" is omitted.
Yes, but the point is that "the" is also omitted when the word "hotel"
is present. That is, "the Claridge's hotel" is almost always wrong.
I say "almost always" because I can think of exceptions. You would use
"the" in a sentence like "I mean the Claridge's hotel in Glasgow, not
the one in London".
"The" Claridges then :)
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-13 03:35:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 07:19:16 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
And as for the claim that "the Claridge's" is ordinary and acceptable in BrE,
see the responses from every BrE-speaker who replied, except (not surprisingly)
HH.
You must have missed reading - above - where I said the "the" is
omitted when the word "hotel" is omitted.
Yes, but the point is that "the" is also omitted when the word "hotel"
is present. That is, "the Claridge's hotel" is almost always wrong.
I say "almost always" because I can think of exceptions. You would use
"the" in a sentence like "I mean the Claridge's hotel in Glasgow, not
the one in London".
I postulated one in Edinburgh. Which is more likely?
Whiskers
2017-08-12 14:20:30 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the
opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and
the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated
selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed
prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and
many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and
signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
+44-207-8810795"
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is
perfectly normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the
Claridge's hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word
"hotel" is omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if
the writer felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a
hotel.
There is, by the way "The Claridge Hotel" in Atlantic City, New
Jersey. It is owned by TJM Properties and is a Radisson hotel, so
it's not Claridge's.
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
I can't think why, as Taschen books are sold in shops all over
Britain, it's a very well known publisher of what's known here
as coffee table books.
Janet
Perhaps the people who stay at Claridge's are disinclined to venture
into common retail premises but might readily be persuaded to spend
money in a place they find congenial. 'Curated' makes them feel as if
they are in a museum or gallery of precious stuff, rather than in a mere
shop where of course the (shudder) merchandise is 'dressed' or
'displayed' or even (deep shudder) 'stacked'.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
LFS
2017-08-13 06:23:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
There is, by the way "The Claridge Hotel" in Atlantic City, New
Jersey. It is owned by TJM Properties and is a Radisson hotel, so
it's not Claridge's.
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
I can't think why, as Taschen books are sold in shops all over
Britain, it's a very well known publisher of what's known here as
coffee table books.
For my birthday I was given the Taschen complete Klimt. I don't have a
coffee table big enough for it. The people who gave it to me said they
really wanted to give the complete Hockney - which comes with its own
table - but it was too expensive.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Mack A. Damia
2017-08-13 12:00:39 UTC
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Post by LFS
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN?s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher?s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand?s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge?s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
There is, by the way "The Claridge Hotel" in Atlantic City, New
Jersey. It is owned by TJM Properties and is a Radisson hotel, so
it's not Claridge's.
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
I can't think why, as Taschen books are sold in shops all over
Britain, it's a very well known publisher of what's known here as
coffee table books.
For my birthday I was given the Taschen complete Klimt. I don't have a
coffee table big enough for it. The people who gave it to me said they
really wanted to give the complete Hockney - which comes with its own
table - but it was too expensive.
Seinfeld clip:


Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-13 12:07:46 UTC
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Post by LFS
For my birthday I was given the Taschen complete Klimt. I don't have a
coffee table big enough for it. The people who gave it to me said they
really wanted to give the complete Hockney - which comes with its own
table - but it was too expensive.
Isn't it the only place where Klimt's masterpiece, someone's immense private
dining room walls, still a residence, is published in full?

I wonder whether their erotica and maybe travel handbooks support the publication
of astonishing works like those two, and my Luther Bible ...

Hard to say about the three giant Frank Lloyd Wright volumes, which come in
suitcase-like handled cartons (shipped inside form-fitting shipping cartons),
because I was able to acquire them at half price over maybe 10 years (the
first of them from the Herald Square Border's, where it was in stock for a
long time and finally grew a 50% sticker -- and that was before Border's
started closing down); the other two in sales as mentioned above.
b***@aol.com
2017-08-12 12:21:09 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
There is, by the way "The Claridge Hotel" in Atlantic City, New
Jersey. It is owned by TJM Properties and is a Radisson hotel, so
it's not Claridge's.
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
"Selection" can be used in the sense of "variety" - where no actual
_previous_ selection process is involved.

http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/selection?q=selection gives this definition.

"a collection of things from which something _can be chosen_"

<Emphasis added>

A bit of a curate's egg, though.
Post by Tony Cooper
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-08-12 12:33:43 UTC
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Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
There is, by the way "The Claridge Hotel" in Atlantic City, New
Jersey. It is owned by TJM Properties and is a Radisson hotel, so
it's not Claridge's.
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
"Selection" can be used in the sense of "variety" - where no actual
_previous_ selection process is involved.
http://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/selection?q=selection gives this definition.
"a collection of things from which something _can be chosen_"
<Emphasis added>
A bit of a curate's egg, though.
Somewhere there is possibly a curator responsible for curating a
collection of curate's eggs.
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Tony Cooper
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
RH Draney
2017-08-12 13:04:35 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Somewhere there is possibly a curator responsible for curating a
collection of curate's eggs.
Perhaps some day a cure will be found....r
Mack A. Damia
2017-08-12 17:25:09 UTC
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Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Somewhere there is possibly a curator responsible for curating a
collection of curate's eggs.
Perhaps some day a cure will be found....r
You're preaching to the cure.
bill van
2017-08-12 18:58:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Somewhere there is possibly a curator responsible for curating a
collection of curate's eggs.
Perhaps some day a cure will be found....r
You're preaching to the cure.
The curate ate the cure.
--
bill
Jerry Friedman
2017-08-12 23:21:48 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by bill van
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Somewhere there is possibly a curator responsible for curating a
collection of curate's eggs.
Perhaps some day a cure will be found....r
You're preaching to the cure.
The curate ate the cure.
The curé was cured.
--
Jerry Friedman
RH Draney
2017-08-13 18:47:15 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by bill van
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Somewhere there is possibly a curator responsible for curating a
collection of curate's eggs.
Perhaps some day a cure will be found....r
You're preaching to the cure.
The curate ate the cure.
The curé was cured.
With a dose of curare....r
Mack A. Damia
2017-08-13 18:55:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by RH Draney
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by bill van
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Somewhere there is possibly a curator responsible for curating a
collection of curate's eggs.
Perhaps some day a cure will be found....r
You're preaching to the cure.
The curate ate the cure.
The curé was cured.
With a dose of curare....r
And the choir rejoiced.
Mack A. Damia
2017-08-14 15:45:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 13 Aug 2017 11:55:57 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by RH Draney
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by bill van
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Somewhere there is possibly a curator responsible for curating a
collection of curate's eggs.
Perhaps some day a cure will be found....r
You're preaching to the cure.
The curate ate the cure.
The curé was cured.
With a dose of curare....r
And the choir rejoiced.
By chanting...............wait for it........

"Kyrie Eleison"
s***@gowanhill.com
2017-08-12 20:09:38 UTC
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Post by b***@aol.com
"Selection" can be used in the sense of "variety" - where no actual
_previous_ selection process is involved.
Compare a selection box of chocolates with a variety pack of breakfast cereals (which always had three packets of cornflakes and only ever one of coco pops)

Owain
John Dunlop
2017-08-13 06:00:56 UTC
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Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Compare a selection box of chocolates with a variety pack of
breakfast cereals (which always had three packets of cornflakes and
only ever one of coco pops)
Ah, yes. The Glasgow Claridge's continental breakfast.
--
John
LFS
2017-08-13 06:27:33 UTC
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Post by John Dunlop
Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Compare a selection box of chocolates with a variety pack of
breakfast cereals (which always had three packets of cornflakes and
only ever one of coco pops)
Ah, yes. The Glasgow Claridge's continental breakfast.
<grin>
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Jerry Friedman
2017-08-12 13:57:23 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
What is questionable? "Located in the St Regis hotel..." is perfectly
normal. "Claridge's" is the name of that hotel, so "the Claridge's
hotel" is correct. The "the" is omitted when the word "hotel" is
omitted: "Located in Claridge's..." would be correct if the writer
felt that all readers would know that Claridge's is a hotel.
...

I'd omit it before "Claridge's hotel" too.

Some birders and ornithologists say "the Coopers Hawk", which sounds
strange to me.
Post by Tony Cooper
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
"Selection" doesn't really imply selected to me, though maybe it should.
It just means that some of the publisher's books wont be available.
"Curated" then is a pretentious way to say that the publisher is trying
to offer their books that will sell particularly well at that store, to
Brits and tourists, I imagine.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Moylan
2017-08-13 01:03:46 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
"Selection" doesn't really imply selected to me, though maybe it should.
It just means that some of the publisher's books wont be available.
"Curated" then is a pretentious way to say that the publisher is trying
to offer their books that will sell particularly well at that store, to
Brits and tourists, I imagine.
Pretentious to the point of being wrong, I would say. "Curated" should
imply something more than just selection.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-13 03:37:45 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
What rather annoys me is this use of "curated". If the books were
selected, they were curated, but the writer is trying to imply that
this selection is somehow more selective because it's been curated.
"Selection" doesn't really imply selected to me, though maybe it should.
It just means that some of the publisher's books wont be available.
"Curated" then is a pretentious way to say that the publisher is trying
to offer their books that will sell particularly well at that store, to
Brits and tourists, I imagine.
Pretentious to the point of being wrong, I would say. "Curated" should
imply something more than just selection.
Should, but doesn't any more. Just wait a season or two and they'll stop saying it.
Peter Young
2017-08-12 06:27:35 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the
opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and
the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated
selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed
prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many
more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and
signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
No native BrE speaker would say "The Claridge's Hotel". The article is
superfluous.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Harrison Hill
2017-08-12 06:55:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the
opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and
the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated
selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed
prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many
more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and
signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
No native BrE speaker would say "The Claridge's Hotel". The article is
superfluous.
But most hotels require the article. You wouldn't say "Located in
Savoy hotel"?

Located in/at Claridge’s.
Located in the Claridge’s hotel foyer.
Located in the Claridge’s hotel.
Richard Tobin
2017-08-12 10:50:34 UTC
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Post by Harrison Hill
But most hotels require the article. You wouldn't say "Located in
Savoy hotel"?
"Savoy" doesn't look like a proprietors's name.

I wouldn't say "I'm going to the Sainsbury's" but I would say "I'm
going to the Co-op". I wouldn't say "I withdrew money from the Lloyds
Bank" but I would say "I withdrew money from the Clydesdale Bank".

If there were several Claridge's hotels I might say "I'm staying
at the Claridge's hotel on such-and-such street", but there aren't.

-- Richard
charles
2017-08-12 11:05:49 UTC
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Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Harrison Hill
But most hotels require the article. You wouldn't say "Located in
Savoy hotel"?
"Savoy" doesn't look like a proprietors's name.
It isn't. The land was formerly the site of the Savoy Palace - Savoy being
the land (County?) of a Count from France.

Rather like "Scotland Yard" (a bit further up river) was the site of the
pre 1603 Scottish Embassy (or equivalent at that time)
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
HVS
2017-08-12 13:27:16 UTC
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Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the
opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and
the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated
selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed
prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many
more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and
signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
+44-207-8810795"
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
No native BrE speaker would say "The Claridge's Hotel". The article is
superfluous.
Indeed. This may be refutable, but I think it's the possessive that makes
the difference. It's "the Savoy", "the Hilton", or "the Stafford", but
"Claridge's", or "Brown's".

In Tony's example, it would be "the St Regis" if it's named for a place or
street, but "St Regis's" if it's named for a person.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
Tony Cooper
2017-08-12 18:55:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HVS
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the
opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and
the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated
selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed
prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many
more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and
signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
+44-207-8810795"
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
No native BrE speaker would say "The Claridge's Hotel". The article is
superfluous.
Indeed. This may be refutable, but I think it's the possessive that makes
the difference. It's "the Savoy", "the Hilton", or "the Stafford", but
"Claridge's", or "Brown's".
In Tony's example, it would be "the St Regis" if it's named for a place or
street, but "St Regis's" if it's named for a person.
I think my perspective is influenced by the recognizable factor.
"Claridge's" would be a very recognizable name in the UK, and "hotel"
need not be added. While I am familiar with Claridge's through
reading, most Americans would need the word "hotel" to know what
Claridge's is. Therefore, "the Claridge's hotel" does not seem at all
unusual to me.

Drifting a bit, and entering my "logorrrhoeic" [sic] mode, "Brown's"
triggered a thought. We have discussed foods that are named after the
place it was first served. "Waldorf salad", for example.

While you were referring to Brown's in London, the Brown Hotel in
Louisville, Kentucky was once a famous American hotel and is listed in
the National Register of Historic Places. It was built in 1923, and
the first person to sign the guest register was David Lloyd George.

In 1955 - here's where I double-down on "logorrrhoeic" (PTD's
spelling) - my father, my great-uncle, and I went to the Kentucky
Derby in Lexington. On the way back to Indianapolis, we had lunch at
the Brown. Naturally, we ordered the "Hot Brown": an open-face turkey
sandwich with bacon. Wiki says: "The sandwich was featured on the
2002 PBS documentary Sandwiches That You Will Like."

I won $96 at the track on that trip. Not on Kentucky Derby (won by
Swaps), but in betting on the other races. I used that money to join
the private Rivera Club in Indianapolis so I could hang out with the
rich kids at the club's swimming pool that summer. (Tying this thread
with the thread on social factors in schools)
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-12 19:44:25 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
Post by HVS
In Tony's example, it would be "the St Regis" if it's named for a place or
street, but "St Regis's" if it's named for a person.
I think my perspective is influenced by the recognizable factor.
"Claridge's" would be a very recognizable name in the UK, and "hotel"
need not be added. While I am familiar with Claridge's through
reading, most Americans would need the word "hotel" to know what
Claridge's is. Therefore, "the Claridge's hotel" does not seem at all
unusual to me.
Keep digging.

Maybe when you lived in Chicago (back in 1960 when store chains hadn't been
thought of) you shopped at the Marshall Field's, the Carson's, or the
Wieboldt's. No one else did.
Peter Moylan
2017-08-13 01:10:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
I think my perspective is influenced by the recognizable factor.
"Claridge's" would be a very recognizable name in the UK, and "hotel"
need not be added. While I am familiar with Claridge's through
reading, most Americans would need the word "hotel" to know what
Claridge's is. Therefore, "the Claridge's hotel" does not seem at all
unusual to me.
"The Claridge's hotel" would be correct if it belonged to an entity
called "the Claridge". Compare with "the Donald's presidency".

I'm not in the UK, and not in a position to know whether "Claridge's"
refers to a hotel or a supermarket or a fish and chip shop. What I do
know, however, is that "Claridge's" is a possessive. Therefore a
preceding "the" is impossible.

(But if it turns out to be a greengrocery, all bets are off.)
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-08-12 13:52:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the
opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and
the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated
selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed
prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many
more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and
signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
No native BrE speaker would say "The Claridge's Hotel". The article is
superfluous.
It would be superfluous but less jarring in something like "the
Claridge's hotel in <placename>" to distinguish it from another
Claridge's.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Tony Cooper
2017-08-12 14:36:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the
opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and
the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated
selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed
prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many
more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and
signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
No native BrE speaker would say "The Claridge's Hotel". The article is
superfluous.
He didn't. He didn't capitalize "hotel". That does make a
difference. "Claridge's Hotel" would be the name of the hotel, and
"Claridge's hotel" would the name and a description of the place.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-12 14:52:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the
opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and
the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated
selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed
prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many
more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and
signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
No native BrE speaker would say "The Claridge's Hotel". The article is
superfluous.
He didn't. He didn't capitalize "hotel". That does make a
difference.
Oh, the hypocrisy. "New Jersey State Police Troopers," anyone?
Post by Tony Cooper
"Claridge's Hotel" would be the name of the hotel, and
"Claridge's hotel" would the name and a description of the place.
HVS
2017-08-12 14:55:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the
opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and
the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated
selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed
prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many
more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and
signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
+44-207-8810795"
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
No native BrE speaker would say "The Claridge's Hotel". The article is
superfluous.
He didn't. He didn't capitalize "hotel". That does make a
difference. "Claridge's Hotel" would be the name of the hotel, and
"Claridge's hotel" would the name and a description of the place.
But I don't think a native BrE speaker would say "the Claridge's hotel",
either.

I'm having trouble thinking of any construction where "the Claridge's
Hotel/hotel" would sound natural.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
Whiskers
2017-08-13 16:35:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HVS
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the
opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and
the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated
selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed
prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many
more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and
signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
+44-207-8810795"
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
No native BrE speaker would say "The Claridge's Hotel". The article is
superfluous.
He didn't. He didn't capitalize "hotel". That does make a
difference. "Claridge's Hotel" would be the name of the hotel, and
"Claridge's hotel" would the name and a description of the place.
But I don't think a native BrE speaker would say "the Claridge's hotel",
either.
I'm having trouble thinking of any construction where "the Claridge's
Hotel/hotel" would sound natural.
'The Claridge's hotel ambience is not like that of lesser
establishments'.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-08-12 10:14:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 20:37:57 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
Nolan Browne is an English name. He works for Taschen in London. His
phone number is +44-20.... which is a London number.

The wording of the email is good English but in BrE it would be normal,
as Peter Young has said, to use "Claridge's hotel" without "the". It was
presumably written by somone in the company's head office in Germany,
not by Nolan Browne in London.

According to this a couple of years ago:
http://www.inchelsea.co.uk/lives/nolan-browne-manager-taschen-store-gallery/

Nolan Browne has been manager of the Taschen Store and Gallery for
almost three years and has lived in Chelsea for fifteen years. He
was born in Thailand, grew up in Africa and New York, and has a huge
passion for art and all things creative.

Today Nolan Browne is Gallery Director of "TASCHEN Store London
Claridge’s":
https://www.taschen.com/pages/en/stores/39069.store_london_claridges.htm
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Jack Campin
2017-08-12 10:43:04 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in
Mayfair. "Located in the Claridge’s hotel, [...]
Is that usual BrE usage?
The wording of the email is good English but in BrE it would
be normal, as Peter Young has said, to use "Claridge's hotel"
without "the".
Isn't it usually Claridges, with neither article nor apostrophe?
(Despite what the hotel itself wants you to write...) A lot of
London institutions have got de-apostrophized over the years -
nobody writes "Harrod's".

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07895 860 060 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-08-12 11:04:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jack Campin
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in
Mayfair. "Located in the Claridge’s hotel, [...]
Is that usual BrE usage?
The wording of the email is good English but in BrE it would
be normal, as Peter Young has said, to use "Claridge's hotel"
without "the".
Isn't it usually Claridges, with neither article nor apostrophe?
(Despite what the hotel itself wants you to write...) A lot of
London institutions have got de-apostrophized over the years -
nobody writes "Harrod's".
Yes.

However, a business with a location inside the hotel would be wise to
use the hotel's own spelling of its name.
Post by Jack Campin
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07895 860 060 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Harrison Hill
2017-08-12 19:33:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Jack Campin
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in
Mayfair. "Located in the Claridge’s hotel, [...]
Is that usual BrE usage?
The wording of the email is good English but in BrE it would
be normal, as Peter Young has said, to use "Claridge's hotel"
without "the".
Isn't it usually Claridges, with neither article nor apostrophe?
(Despite what the hotel itself wants you to write...) A lot of
London institutions have got de-apostrophized over the years -
nobody writes "Harrod's".
Yes.
However, a business with a location inside the hotel would be wise to
use the hotel's own spelling of its name.
Rocco Forte themselves use "The Browns Hotel", and there is
nothing the least bit exceptional about it. Browns wiki link
has: "The Brown's Hotel is noted for its traditional English
Victorian sophistication fused with a contemporary feel.[3]
The bedrooms are designed by Olga Polizzi..."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown%27s_Hotel

"The Browns
Harrison Hill
2017-08-12 19:42:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"We are delighted to announce the opening of a new store in Mayfair.
"It will be TASCHEN’s second outpost in London, following the opening of the publisher’s flagship store in Chelsea in 2008, and the brand’s 14th retail space worldwide.
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
"Stay tuned for more on our upcoming events, exhibitions, and signings. We look forward to welcoming you!
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
ObAUE there is another famous "Browns Hotel". From their own website:

Dylan Thomas befriended Ivy Thomas, the landlady of 'The Browns' as
it is known locally (the apostrophe vanished some years ago). She
supplied him with stories and gossip, source material for Under Milk
Wood. He drank there most nights when in Laugharne, with his wife,
Caitlin Thomas.[3] He gave the hotel phone number as his own. In a
letter to a friend planning a visit in 1938 he wrote, 'Drop in at
Brown's Hotel & buy a Felinfoel and ask where we live: they know.'
[4] Both he and Caitlin had their wakes in Browns after their funerals
in 1953 and 1994, respectively.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown%27s_Hotel_(Laugharne)>
Jerry Friedman
2017-08-14 16:40:07 UTC
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Raw Message
...
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
...
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
For comparison, "Hells Angels" often gets a "the".

"Just in the past seven years, the Hells Angels have brought more than
a dozen cases in federal court, alleging infringement on apparel,
jewelry, posters and yo-yos."

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/29/us/despite-outlaw-image-hells-angels-sue-often.html

Apparently the official spelling has no apostrophe. Could that be
relevant? I doubt it.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-14 17:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
...
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
For comparison, "Hells Angels" often gets a "the".
"Just in the past seven years, the Hells Angels have brought more than
a dozen cases in federal court, alleging infringement on apparel,
jewelry, posters and yo-yos."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/29/us/despite-outlaw-image-hells-angels-sue-often.html
Apparently the official spelling has no apostrophe. Could that be
relevant? I doubt it.
Don't all gang names take the article? The Bloods, the Crips, the Jets, the
Sharks -- but no, M13, not the M13.
Harrison Hill
2017-08-14 18:12:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
...
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
For comparison, "Hells Angels" often gets a "the".
"Just in the past seven years, the Hells Angels have brought more than
a dozen cases in federal court, alleging infringement on apparel,
jewelry, posters and yo-yos."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/29/us/despite-outlaw-image-hells-angels-sue-often.html
Apparently the official spelling has no apostrophe. Could that be
relevant? I doubt it.
Don't all gang names take the article? The Bloods, the Crips, the Jets, the
Sharks -- but no, M13, not the M13.
In this Summer of all summers you could have made that quote
topical:

"Overseas, yeah, we try to stop terrorism
But we still got terrorists here livin'
In the USA [the big CIA left out]
The Bloods and The Crips and the KKK"


Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-14 19:18:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"Located in the Claridge’s hotel, the store will offer a curated selection of TASCHEN books and limited editions, including signed prints from Ellen von Unwerth, Steve Schapiro, Albert Watson, and many more.
...
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Is that usual BrE usage? "Nolan Browne" sounds like the name of an English-speaker.
For comparison, "Hells Angels" often gets a "the".
"Just in the past seven years, the Hells Angels have brought more than
a dozen cases in federal court, alleging infringement on apparel,
jewelry, posters and yo-yos."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/29/us/despite-outlaw-image-hells-angels-sue-often.html
Apparently the official spelling has no apostrophe. Could that be
relevant? I doubt it.
Don't all gang names take the article? The Bloods, the Crips, the Jets, the
Sharks -- but no, M13, not the M13.
In this Summer of all summers you could have made that quote
"Overseas, yeah, we try to stop terrorism
But we still got terrorists here livin'
In the USA [the big CIA left out]
The Bloods and The Crips and the KKK"
http://youtu.be/ntkD_Iumjlo
I take it that's from some currently popular song? Given your previously
revealed penchant, a rap song?

Richard Tobin
2017-08-14 18:57:31 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
For comparison, "Hells Angels" often gets a "the".
"Just in the past seven years, the Hells Angels have brought more than
a dozen cases in federal court, alleging infringement on apparel,
jewelry, posters and yo-yos."
Surely the article is used when referring to them as an organization
(capable of bringing in a court case), while the people are Hell's
Angels.

-- Richard
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