Discussion:
a single middle-aged man, eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
(too old to reply)
Hen Hanna
2018-01-08 23:47:17 UTC
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related topic:

in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically
eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.


I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
.... Do you agree ?
Many elderly people are widowed or alone for some reason. Some may not have a close network of friends.
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience, particularly in full-service restaurants, where management and service personnel sometimes make single patrons seem like interlopers.

To folks alienated from fast-food establishments, cafeterias are congenial places.

Several sources indicated that although older patrons tend to be fussy eaters, quality of food was not as important to them as the quality of the dining experience. For many people, eating out represents a vital and ..........

While the stereotype is that old people are rigid, in fact old people are loyal. If a cafeteria, or any restaurant, does a good job, ......
Hen Hanna
2018-01-08 23:59:22 UTC
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( older folks in diners / cafeterias )
Post by Hen Hanna
Many elderly people are widowed or alone for some reason. Some may not have a close network of friends.
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience, particularly in full-service restaurants, where management and service personnel sometimes make single patrons seem like interlopers.
To folks alienated from fast-food establishments, cafeterias are congenial places.
Several sources indicated that although older patrons tend to be fussy eaters, quality of food was not as important to them as the quality of the dining experience. For many people, eating out represents a vital and ..........
While the stereotype is that old people are rigid, in fact old people are loyal. If a cafeteria, or any restaurant, does a good job, ......
Do older folks still like to eat at diners ?
Define "diner".
I wouldn't call a Denny's a "diner", but I'm not sure if I could
provide a definition of a "diner". I know what *I* think of as a
"diner", but not what an acceptable definition for all would be.
Define "older folks".
I know I am one, but I'm not sure when I became one.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
in a "real" diner, ordering is not computerized.

you order, and the waitress writes something on a
blank piece of (buff-colored) paper,
and (another?) piece of (buff-colored) paper
is hung on a rope/string with a clip.

which the girll-man looks and starts cooking....



in a "real" diner, the waitress "mates" (is that the word?)
the ketchup bottles at the end of her shift.

I used to go to such a "real" diner
HH
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-09 12:07:45 UTC
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Post by Hen Hanna
( older folks in diners / cafeterias )
Post by Hen Hanna
Many elderly people are widowed or alone for some reason. Some may not have a close network of friends.
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience, particularly in full-service restaurants, where management and service personnel sometimes make single patrons seem like interlopers.
To folks alienated from fast-food establishments, cafeterias are congenial places.
Several sources indicated that although older patrons tend to be fussy eaters, quality of food was not as important to them as the quality of the dining experience. For many people, eating out represents a vital and ..........
While the stereotype is that old people are rigid, in fact old people are loyal. If a cafeteria, or any restaurant, does a good job, ......
Do older folks still like to eat at diners ?
Define "diner".
I wouldn't call a Denny's a "diner", but I'm not sure if I could
provide a definition of a "diner". I know what *I* think of as a
"diner", but not what an acceptable definition for all would be.
Define "older folks".
I know I am one, but I'm not sure when I became one.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
in a "real" diner, ordering is not computerized.
you order, and the waitress writes something on a
blank piece of (buff-colored) paper,
and (another?) piece of (buff-colored) paper
is hung on a rope/string with a clip.
which the girll-man looks and starts cooking....
Wait! It's compulsory to be transgender to cook in a
diner? My, how life speeds past you when you're not
paying attention!
Peter Moylan
2018-01-09 14:45:16 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Hen Hanna
( older folks in diners / cafeterias )
Post by Hen Hanna
Many elderly people are widowed or alone for some reason. Some may not have a close network of friends.
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience, particularly in full-service restaurants, where management and service personnel sometimes make single patrons seem like interlopers.
To folks alienated from fast-food establishments, cafeterias are congenial places.
Several sources indicated that although older patrons tend to be fussy eaters, quality of food was not as important to them as the quality of the dining experience. For many people, eating out represents a vital and ..........
While the stereotype is that old people are rigid, in fact old people are loyal. If a cafeteria, or any restaurant, does a good job, ......
Do older folks still like to eat at diners ?
Define "diner".
I wouldn't call a Denny's a "diner", but I'm not sure if I could
provide a definition of a "diner". I know what *I* think of as a
"diner", but not what an acceptable definition for all would be.
Define "older folks".
I know I am one, but I'm not sure when I became one.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
in a "real" diner, ordering is not computerized.
you order, and the waitress writes something on a
blank piece of (buff-colored) paper,
and (another?) piece of (buff-colored) paper
is hung on a rope/string with a clip.
which the girll-man looks and starts cooking....
Wait! It's compulsory to be transgender to cook in a
diner? My, how life speeds past you when you're not
paying attention!
I'm impressed that you understood any of the above. The typical Hen
Hanna post uses indentation to endure that the reader cannot make sense
of what has been written.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Quinn C
2018-01-09 23:16:14 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Hen Hanna
in a "real" diner, ordering is not computerized.
you order, and the waitress writes something on a
blank piece of (buff-colored) paper,
and (another?) piece of (buff-colored) paper
is hung on a rope/string with a clip.
which the girll-man looks and starts cooking....
Wait! It's compulsory to be transgender to cook in a
diner? My, how life speeds past you when you're not
paying attention!
I'm impressed that you understood any of the above. The typical Hen
Hanna post uses indentation to endure that the reader cannot make sense
of what has been written.
And he dure ensures in his style.
--
Novels and romances ... when habitually indulged in, exert a
disastrous influence on the nervous system, sufficient to explain
that frequency of hysteria and nervous disease which we find
among the highest classes. -- E.J. Tilt
Jenny Telia
2018-01-10 00:38:10 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Hen Hanna
in a "real" diner, ordering is not computerized.
you order, and the waitress writes something on a
blank piece of (buff-colored) paper,
and (another?) piece of (buff-colored) paper
is hung on a rope/string with a clip.
which the girll-man looks and starts cooking....
Wait! It's compulsory to be transgender to cook in a
diner? My, how life speeds past you when you're not
paying attention!
I'm impressed that you understood any of the above. The typical Hen
Hanna post uses indentation to endure that the reader cannot make sense
of what has been written.
And he dure ensures in *his* style.
'his'? I'm quite sure the clucking one is a she.
Mark Brader
2018-01-09 06:38:24 UTC
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For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience...
Nonsense.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "I've always wanted to be a mad scientist!
***@vex.net | Or perhaps just mad!" -- Robert L. Biddle
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-01-09 07:12:57 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience...
Nonsense.
Yes, but par for the course for Hen Hanna's posts.
--
athel
Snidely
2018-01-09 07:28:48 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience...
Nonsense.
For me, the literal sense is true, but as understatement if fails. I
have had many experiences far worse than dining alone, and I don't
think I've been exposed to real hardships.

/dps
--
Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
precious heavy water.
_The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean
HVS
2018-01-11 11:21:03 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience...
Nonsense.
As far as I can tell, no-one's picked up on the ambiguity in the subject
line, which is unusual for AUE.

"A single middle-aged man eats dinner alone" could mean "a middle-aged,
unmarried/unpartnered man eats dinner", or that there was only one person
(middle-aged, and on his own) eating dinner in the place.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (35yrs),
indiscriminately mixed
Lewis
2018-01-11 15:49:43 UTC
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Post by HVS
Post by Mark Brader
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience...
Nonsense.
As far as I can tell, no-one's picked up on the ambiguity in the subject
line, which is unusual for AUE.
"A single middle-aged man eats dinner alone" could mean "a middle-aged,
unmarried/unpartnered man eats dinner", or that there was only one person
(middle-aged, and on his own) eating dinner in the place.
It *could* mean that, but that would be unlikely enough that it would be
phrased differently. "Alone" is well understood to means that no one is
with you, not that the place you are in is empty of other people.

Alone normally means "unaccompanied" and not "isolated from all
humanity".

When I go to a movie alone I do not expect an empty theatre for my
private screening.
--
Kickboxing. Sport of the future.
HVS
2018-01-11 16:51:06 UTC
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Post by Lewis
Post by HVS
Post by Mark Brader
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience...
Nonsense.
As far as I can tell, no-one's picked up on the ambiguity in the
subject line, which is unusual for AUE.
"A single middle-aged man eats dinner alone" could mean "a middle-aged,
unmarried/unpartnered man eats dinner", or that there was only one
person (middle-aged, and on his own) eating dinner in the place.
It *could* mean that, but that would be unlikely enough that it would be
phrased differently.
"Alone" is well understood to means that no one is
with you, not that the place you are in is empty of other people.
Oh, I agree entirely: it's pretty clear what was meant, and the ambiguity
is more theoretical than real.

It was the "single" that I found potentially ambiguous - or perhaps garden-
pathing. I was a tad surprised that it hadn't been raised -- tenuous
ambiguity has never discouraged pedantic twitching in AUE.
Post by Lewis
Alone normally means "unaccompanied" and not "isolated from all
humanity".
When I go to a movie alone I do not expect an empty theatre for my
private screening.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
Janet
2018-01-09 14:05:25 UTC
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Post by Hen Hanna
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically
eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
.... Do you agree ?
Many elderly people are widowed or alone for some reason. Some may not have a close network of friends.
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience, particularly in full-service restaurants, where management and service personnel sometimes make single patrons seem like interlopers.
To folks alienated from fast-food establishments, cafeterias are congenial places.
Several sources indicated that although older patrons tend to be fussy eaters, quality of food was not as important to them as the quality of the dining experience. For many people, eating out represents a vital and ..........
While the stereotype is that old people are rigid, in fact old people are loyal. If a cafeteria, or any restaurant, does a good job, ......
I don't recognise any of the above stereotypes among the older
people I know.

Janet.
Hen Hanna
2018-01-09 23:24:41 UTC
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henhanna says...
Post by Hen Hanna
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically
eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
.... Do you agree ?
Many elderly people are widowed or alone for some reason. Some may not have a close network of friends.
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience, particularly in full-service restaurants, where management and service personnel sometimes make single patrons seem like interlopers.
To folks alienated from fast-food establishments, cafeterias are congenial places.
Several sources indicated that although older patrons tend to be fussy eaters, quality of food was not as important to them as the quality of the dining experience. For many people, eating out represents a vital and ..........
While the stereotype is that old people are rigid, in fact old people are loyal. If a cafeteria, or any restaurant, does a good job, ......
I don't recognise any of the above stereotypes among the older
people I know.
Janet.
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.

I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.


re: girll-man
Wait! It's compulsory to be transgender to cook in a
diner? My, how life speeds past you when you're not paying attention!
yes, at the hip [ifTG Mamafesta/Manifesto Diner], every grill-man is a girrl-man.
And he dure ensures in his style.
Yep. it dure takes dual recipline.

HH
Ken Blake
2018-01-10 15:46:10 UTC
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On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part o
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-10 15:55:36 UTC
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Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
Well over 400 diners in NJ alone. Cafeterias were an institution in Indiana
a few decades ago, and it's unlikely they've all gone away.
Lewis
2018-01-10 16:49:39 UTC
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Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
I don't know about cafeterias,I haven't seen a Furr's in years, but
diners are common.
--
I AM SO VERY TIRED Bart chalkboard Ep. AABF20
Mack A. Damia
2018-01-10 17:18:25 UTC
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On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 16:49:39 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
I don't know about cafeterias,I haven't seen a Furr's in years, but
diners are common.
"Diner" is actually short for (railway) "dining car": (MW) "a small,
informal, and inexpensive restaurant that looks like a railroad car."
John Varela
2018-01-10 19:21:32 UTC
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On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 17:18:25 UTC, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 16:49:39 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
I don't know about cafeterias,I haven't seen a Furr's in years, but
diners are common.
"Diner" is actually short for (railway) "dining car": (MW) "a small,
informal, and inexpensive restaurant that looks like a railroad car."
The original diners were factory built and carried on trailers to
their location. Some actually had their own wheels, resulting in
floor bulges that were still there after the diner was mounted on
its permanent foundation.

Modern "diners" imitate the originals, trying to create that
factory-built look with lots of stainless steel and mirrors, and
service at a counter as well as booths and sometimes tables.

Diner food should be, plentiful, cheap, non-alcoholic, and
unpretentious. There are several "diner" chains in the DC area that
don't adhere closely to those characteristics except for the
stainless steel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diner
--
John Varela
Mack A. Damia
2018-01-10 20:15:15 UTC
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Post by John Varela
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 17:18:25 UTC, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 16:49:39 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
I don't know about cafeterias,I haven't seen a Furr's in years, but
diners are common.
"Diner" is actually short for (railway) "dining car": (MW) "a small,
informal, and inexpensive restaurant that looks like a railroad car."
The original diners were factory built and carried on trailers to
their location. Some actually had their own wheels, resulting in
floor bulges that were still there after the diner was mounted on
its permanent foundation.
Modern "diners" imitate the originals, trying to create that
factory-built look with lots of stainless steel and mirrors, and
service at a counter as well as booths and sometimes tables.
Diner food should be, plentiful, cheap, non-alcoholic, and
unpretentious. There are several "diner" chains in the DC area that
don't adhere closely to those characteristics except for the
stainless steel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diner
And many of them were moved to different locations after they closed
circa 1980 onwards.

We used to hang around at the "Queen" smoking cigarettes and drinking
5 cents a cup coffee. The Queen of the Valley diner was named for the
train that ran from Jersey City, NJ to Harrisburg, PA over a fifty
year period. The diner was directly next to the railroad tracks.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-10 20:45:29 UTC
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Post by John Varela
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 17:18:25 UTC, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 16:49:39 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
I don't know about cafeterias,I haven't seen a Furr's in years, but
diners are common.
"Diner" is actually short for (railway) "dining car": (MW) "a small,
informal, and inexpensive restaurant that looks like a railroad car."
The original diners were factory built and carried on trailers to
their location. Some actually had their own wheels, resulting in
floor bulges that were still there after the diner was mounted on
its permanent foundation.
Modern "diners" imitate the originals, trying to create that
factory-built look with lots of stainless steel and mirrors, and
service at a counter as well as booths and sometimes tables.
Diner food should be, plentiful, cheap, non-alcoholic, and
unpretentious. There are several "diner" chains in the DC area that
don't adhere closely to those characteristics except for the
stainless steel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diner
The _original_ original diners were actual decommissioned railroad dining cars
moved to permanent locations. The purpose-built (BrE "bespoke"?) ones imitated
the railroad forebears but were dimensioned better for urban lots.

Neighborhood restaurants that imitate the decor and continue the menus of the
classic diners are legitimately called "diner" -- such as the one where the
*Seinfeld* crew hang out (the exterior, Tom's Restaurant, is on the corner of
112th & Broadway, a good two miles from the ostensible location of Jerry's
and Elaine's apartments; in exactly one episode, they made the mistake of
panning the camera slightly to the right (south) to look down (eastward) 112th
St. to the facade of the Cathedral of St. John the Divine, thus destroying the
Upper West Side illusion).
Richard Tobin
2018-01-10 22:48:56 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
The _original_ original diners were actual decommissioned railroad
dining cars moved to permanent locations. The purpose-built (BrE
"bespoke"?)
No.

-- Richard
Peter Moylan
2018-01-10 21:37:56 UTC
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Post by Mack A. Damia
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 16:49:39 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
I don't know about cafeterias,I haven't seen a Furr's in years, but
diners are common.
"Diner" is actually short for (railway) "dining car": (MW) "a small,
informal, and inexpensive restaurant that looks like a railroad car."
Newcastle's version of that is called Harry's Cafe de Wheels. I was
under the impression that its main function was to sell meat pies to
people who had the munchies after pub closing time, but it seems that
I'm wrong. On Saturday nights it closes at 2 am, and the pubs don't
close until 3 am.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Cheryl
2018-01-10 17:38:23 UTC
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Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
I don't know about cafeterias,I haven't seen a Furr's in years, but
diners are common.
In my experience, cafeterias are usually found in large institutions,
like schools or hospitals. While some of them may be patronized by
members of the general public, most people seem to prefer other eating
establishments unless they happen to be hungry and visiting or in said
hospital or school.

I don't know what a diner is today. The word to me means the kind of
place you see in movies set in the 1950s, and I think they may have been
replaced by "food courts" and fast food restaurants.

There are some small and not very expensive restaurants, of course, but
I don't think I'd call them diners. They don't seem to have the decor I
associate with the term. Some claim to be cafes (but not cafeterias) and
others have names referring to the type of cuisine they produce. If they
do specialize in a cuisine, they will generally also have a small
selection of "Canadian food" (hamburgers and fries, for example). People
of all ages will eat there who can't afford the higher-end restaurants,
or who want a quick and informal meal.
--
Cheryl
Tony Cooper
2018-01-11 01:53:34 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
I don't know about cafeterias,I haven't seen a Furr's in years, but
diners are common.
In my experience, cafeterias are usually found in large institutions,
like schools or hospitals. While some of them may be patronized by
members of the general public, most people seem to prefer other eating
establishments unless they happen to be hungry and visiting or in said
hospital or school.
I don't know what a diner is today.
The definition today of a "diner" in the US is pretty loose it seems.
"Definitions" are more opinions than true definitions.

In my opinion, some things that an establishment must include to be
considered a "diner" are:

1. Open early in the morning for breakfast or remain open 24 hours.
(A diner can serve just breakfast and lunch and close in the afternoon
for the day. Or not.)

2. Counter seating on stools available, and more counter seating than
table seating.

3. There can be table service, but the tables have to be plain. No
tablecloths and no fancy surfaces. (Table service includes booths,
not just free-standing tables)

4. Breakfast items served at any time.

5. "Specials" can be offered, but the person who takes the order
doesn't describe how the special is cooked or what spices are used.
The description of the "Special" should be something like "Spaghetti
with meatballs" and nothing more elaborate in the description. The
servers will never use words like "drizzled with...", "a hint of...",
any French words (other than to say "The soup de jour of the day
is...", or "plated".

6. Hamburgers and french fries, as well as other pedestrian
sandwiches, must be on the menu. This includes club sandwiches even
if held together with toothpicks with bits of colored plastic wrapped
around the end.

7. The cooking area must either be visible or at least visible
through a pass-through window. No kitchen behind the swinging doors.

8. Ketchup and mustard bottles either on the counter or on the table.
9. Self-seating. No hostess, no reservations.

As soon as I post this, I will think of "10." and above.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Lewis
2018-01-11 07:41:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Cheryl
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
I don't know about cafeterias,I haven't seen a Furr's in years, but
diners are common.
In my experience, cafeterias are usually found in large institutions,
like schools or hospitals. While some of them may be patronized by
members of the general public, most people seem to prefer other eating
establishments unless they happen to be hungry and visiting or in said
hospital or school.
I don't know what a diner is today.
The definition today of a "diner" in the US is pretty loose it seems.
"Definitions" are more opinions than true definitions.
In my opinion, some things that an establishment must include to be
1. Open early in the morning for breakfast or remain open 24 hours.
(A diner can serve just breakfast and lunch and close in the afternoon
for the day. Or not.)
I've been to breakfast-only diners, but in general, yes, you're right.
Post by Tony Cooper
2. Counter seating on stools available, and more counter seating than
table seating.
Counter seating required, but not more than tables for me.
Post by Tony Cooper
3. There can be table service, but the tables have to be plain. No
tablecloths and no fancy surfaces. (Table service includes booths,
not just free-standing tables)
Yes.
Post by Tony Cooper
4. Breakfast items served at any time.
Yes.
Post by Tony Cooper
5. "Specials" can be offered, but the person who takes the order
doesn't describe how the special is cooked or what spices are used.
The description of the "Special" should be something like "Spaghetti
with meatballs" and nothing more elaborate in the description. The
servers will never use words like "drizzled with...", "a hint of...",
any French words (other than to say "The soup de jour of the day
is...", or "plated".
Pie a la mode is allowed.
Post by Tony Cooper
6. Hamburgers and french fries, as well as other pedestrian
sandwiches, must be on the menu. This includes club sandwiches even
if held together with toothpicks with bits of colored plastic wrapped
around the end.
See #1, but in general yes.
Post by Tony Cooper
7. The cooking area must either be visible or at least visible
through a pass-through window. No kitchen behind the swinging doors.
Good one.
Post by Tony Cooper
8. Ketchup and mustard bottles either on the counter or on the table.
9. Self-seating. No hostess, no reservations.
Not with you on this one, if they are full, they take your name and seat
you. If it's a large place and they're not full they'll seat you
(because otherwise you might sit at a table that doesn't have a waitress
assigned).
Post by Tony Cooper
As soon as I post this, I will think of "10." and above.
10. Coffee. Not espresso, that is an instant disqualifier. Waitresses come
around and magically refill your coffee until you beg them to stop. And
sometimes even then.

11. The menu is either very short or ridiculously long. One page of 5-10
choices or many pages with 10 burgers, 20 breakfast options, and
miscellaneous other options like club sandwiches, chicken fried steak
and eggs, greek salad, chili, or maybe even meatloaf with gravy (red or
brown).

12. Waitresses that have worked there 10-20 years or more.

13. They call you "Hun" or "Sweetie".

(the last two disqualify Steak n Shake, but I think that's OK. I could
be swayed.)
--
Hamburgers. The cornerstone of any nutritious breakfast.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-01-11 07:55:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lewis
[ ... ]
5. "Specials" can be offered, but the person who takes the order
doesn't describe how the special is cooked or what spices are used.
The description of the "Special" should be something like "Spaghetti
with meatballs" and nothing more elaborate in the description. The
servers will never use words like "drizzled with...", "a hint of...",
any French words (other than to say "The soup de jour of the day
is...", or "plated".
Pie a la mode is allowed.
"a la mode" considered to be American words, not French?
--
athel
Peter Moylan
2018-01-11 10:43:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Lewis
[ ... ]
5. "Specials" can be offered, but the person who takes the
order doesn't describe how the special is cooked or what spices
are used. The description of the "Special" should be something
like "Spaghetti with meatballs" and nothing more elaborate in the
description. The servers will never use words like "drizzled
with...", "a hint of...", any French words (other than to say
"The soup de jour of the day is...", or "plated".
Pie a la mode is allowed.
"a la mode" considered to be American words, not French?
It makes sense only in American. As far as I know French restaurants
don't serve magpie, fashionably or otherwise.

If it were AusE, "à la mode" in connection with pie would probably mean
"with tomato sauce".
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Cheryl
2018-01-11 11:11:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Lewis
[ ... ]
5.  "Specials" can be offered, but the person who takes the
order doesn't describe how the special is cooked or what spices
are used. The description of the "Special" should be something
like "Spaghetti with meatballs" and nothing more elaborate in the
description.  The servers will never use words like "drizzled
with...", "a hint of...", any French words (other than to say
"The soup de jour of the day is...", or "plated".
Pie a la mode is allowed.
"a la mode" considered to be American words, not French?
It makes sense only in American. As far as I know French restaurants
don't serve magpie, fashionably or otherwise.
If it were AusE, "à la mode" in connection with pie would probably mean
"with tomato sauce".
It's used in Canada, too (ice cream on fruit pie, not tomato sauce on
meat pie), and I don't think it's considered to be French. Well, I
suppose people know the phrase came from French, but it seems to be
accepted as English, or practically English.

By the way, you have very nice meat pies in Australia. Probably some bad
ones too, but I didn't buy the most suspicious-looking one, wrapped in
plastic as though it came from a factory, and the last survivor on a
rack with a sign reading "Half Price!!" I skipped the tomato sauce - I'm
not that fond of ketchup, and it looked much the same sort of thing.
--
Cheryl
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 12:23:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Lewis
Pie a la mode is allowed.
"a la mode" considered to be American words, not French?
It makes sense only in American. As far as I know French restaurants
don't serve magpie, fashionably or otherwise.
If it were AusE, "à la mode" in connection with pie would probably mean
"with tomato sauce".
It's used in Canada, too (ice cream on fruit pie, not tomato sauce on
meat pie), and I don't think it's considered to be French. Well, I
suppose people know the phrase came from French, but it seems to be
accepted as English, or practically English.
By the way, you have very nice meat pies in Australia. Probably some bad
ones too, but I didn't buy the most suspicious-looking one, wrapped in
plastic as though it came from a factory, and the last survivor on a
rack with a sign reading "Half Price!!" I skipped the tomato sauce - I'm
not that fond of ketchup, and it looked much the same sort of thing.
Yes, it's been established that they call ketchup "tomato sauce." They claimed not to have
a word for tomato sauce itself.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-11 12:52:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Yes, it's been established that they call ketchup "tomato sauce." They claimed not to have
a word for tomato sauce itself.
I'm pretty certain the 'word' for 'tomato sauce' is 'tomato sauce'. Unless you mean 'passata'
for which the word is 'passata' or 'puree' for which the word is 'puree'.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 16:42:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Yes, it's been established that they call ketchup "tomato sauce." They claimed not to have
a word for tomato sauce itself.
I'm pretty certain the 'word' for 'tomato sauce' is 'tomato sauce'. Unless you mean 'passata'
for which the word is 'passata' or 'puree' for which the word is 'puree'.
Maybe Over There and Down There you just don't have tomato sauce, so you can
use its name for something else.

Just as Over Here we have nothing called "brown sauce" and none of you have
ever been able to suggest a near-equivalent. (I've noted, during your long
hiatus, that when I was in London in 1992 everything on McDonalds' menu was
exactly 50% more expensive than the same items at home -- that is, the prices
in sterling were identical to the prices in dollars -- so I didn't try anything
to discover what the differences were and in particular what "brown sauce," at
least in their version, was. I was at a B&B behind the British Museum, and I
was awfully happy to find an Indian buffet a block or so away, where I had
probably three meals over the two days.) (I went to Oxford on Saturday and
Cambridge on Sunday and have no memory of what I ate at either place. I made
the mistake of taking the bus to Oxford, it got caught in traffic, so I missed
the Bodleian, which closed at noon on Saturdays. I loved the Ashmolean. Didn't
pay the L1.50 for the tour of Christ Church to see the Dodgson shrines. So I
took the train to Cambridge, where I loved the Fitzwilliam, and Blackwell's,
and Evensong at King's College.)
Tony Cooper
2018-01-11 18:08:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 08:42:56 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Yes, it's been established that they call ketchup "tomato sauce." They claimed not to have
a word for tomato sauce itself.
Oh, Lord. You think they ask for "Whatever that red stuff is in the
bottle" to be passed?" instead of saying "tomato sauce"?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
I'm pretty certain the 'word' for 'tomato sauce' is 'tomato sauce'. Unless you mean 'passata'
for which the word is 'passata' or 'puree' for which the word is 'puree'.
Maybe Over There and Down There you just don't have tomato sauce, so you can
use its name for something else.
Just as Over Here we have nothing called "brown sauce" and none of you have
ever been able to suggest a near-equivalent.
HP Sauce is a standard item available in most restaurants that serve
steak or even hamburgers. While we call it "HP Sauce", it is a "brown
sauce".

The label on the bottle identifies it as "brown sauce".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 21:56:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 08:42:56 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Yes, it's been established that they call ketchup "tomato sauce." They claimed not to have
a word for tomato sauce itself.
Oh, Lord. You think they ask for "Whatever that red stuff is in the
bottle" to be passed?" instead of saying "tomato sauce"?
It's really sad how you struggle with the English language. When they want
ketchup, they ask for "tomato sauce," which is what comes in a bottle that
can be passed.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
I'm pretty certain the 'word' for 'tomato sauce' is 'tomato sauce'. Unless you mean 'passata'
for which the word is 'passata' or 'puree' for which the word is 'puree'.
Maybe Over There and Down There you just don't have tomato sauce, so you can
use its name for something else.
Just as Over Here we have nothing called "brown sauce" and none of you have
ever been able to suggest a near-equivalent.
HP Sauce is a standard item available in most restaurants that serve
steak or even hamburgers. While we call it "HP Sauce", it is a "brown
sauce".
HP Sauce is indeed brown, but I have no evidence as to whether it is what is
called "brown sauce" in England.

It is one brand of what is called "steak sauce," and the different varieties
and brands of steak sauce that I've seen and sampled have all been brown.
They have different flavors, which is why steak houses usually have several
different brands set out on the tables.
Post by Tony Cooper
The label on the bottle identifies it as "brown sauce".
Do they use American HP Sauce in England?
Tony Cooper
2018-01-11 22:57:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 13:56:32 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 08:42:56 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Yes, it's been established that they call ketchup "tomato sauce." They claimed not to have
a word for tomato sauce itself.
Oh, Lord. You think they ask for "Whatever that red stuff is in the
bottle" to be passed?" instead of saying "tomato sauce"?
It's really sad how you struggle with the English language. When they want
ketchup, they ask for "tomato sauce," which is what comes in a bottle that
can be passed.
So you don't accept two words as them not having a word for the item?

You don't see, without struggling, that "When you want tomato sauce,
you ask for 'ketchup'." to be an equally appropriate statement if made
by a Brit?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
I'm pretty certain the 'word' for 'tomato sauce' is 'tomato sauce'. Unless you mean 'passata'
for which the word is 'passata' or 'puree' for which the word is 'puree'.
Maybe Over There and Down There you just don't have tomato sauce, so you can
use its name for something else.
Just as Over Here we have nothing called "brown sauce" and none of you have
ever been able to suggest a near-equivalent.
HP Sauce is a standard item available in most restaurants that serve
steak or even hamburgers. While we call it "HP Sauce", it is a "brown
sauce".
HP Sauce is indeed brown, but I have no evidence as to whether it is what is
called "brown sauce" in England.
Of course you don't have evidence. You haven't looked it up. Else,
you would.

And, my statement refutes "we have nothing called 'brown sauce'...".
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It is one brand of what is called "steak sauce," and the different varieties
and brands of steak sauce that I've seen and sampled have all been brown.
They have different flavors, which is why steak houses usually have several
different brands set out on the tables.
Post by Tony Cooper
The label on the bottle identifies it as "brown sauce".
Do they use American HP Sauce in England?
It is not our product. HP Sauce was originally produced by HP Foods
in the UK. It is now made by H.J. Heinz in the Netherlands.

HP is one brand of "brown sauce" available in the UK. Others are OK
and Wikin and various store brands.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Andy Leighton
2018-01-11 23:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Do they use American HP Sauce in England?
It is not our product. HP Sauce was originally produced by HP Foods
in the UK. It is now made by H.J. Heinz in the Netherlands.
HP is one brand of "brown sauce" available in the UK. Others are OK
and Wikin and various store brands.
Wilkin's is a minor brand.

I think Daddies is second (to HP) in the brown sauce market. Daddies
is also owned by Heinz.
--
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-12 00:02:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Andy Leighton
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Do they use American HP Sauce in England?
It is not our product. HP Sauce was originally produced by HP Foods
in the UK. It is now made by H.J. Heinz in the Netherlands.
HP is one brand of "brown sauce" available in the UK. Others are OK
and Wikin and various store brands.
Wilkin's is a minor brand.
I think Daddies is second (to HP) in the brown sauce market. Daddies
is also owned by Heinz.
--
Do your stats come from before or after the Great Brown Sauce
Crash of 2015?
Peter Moylan
2018-01-11 12:37:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cheryl
By the way, you have very nice meat pies in Australia. Probably some
bad ones too, but I didn't buy the most suspicious-looking one,
wrapped in plastic as though it came from a factory, and the last
survivor on a rack with a sign reading "Half Price!!" I skipped the
tomato sauce - I'm not that fond of ketchup, and it looked much the
same sort of thing.
That sounds like a wise decision. Skipping the half-price pie, I mean.

There are good meat pies and bad meat pies in Australia, just like
everything else. I'm glad you managed to find the good ones.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-01-11 16:25:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Lewis
[ ... ]
5.  "Specials" can be offered, but the person who takes the
order doesn't describe how the special is cooked or what spices
are used. The description of the "Special" should be something
like "Spaghetti with meatballs" and nothing more elaborate in the
description.  The servers will never use words like "drizzled
with...", "a hint of...", any French words (other than to say
"The soup de jour of the day is...", or "plated".
Pie a la mode is allowed.
"a la mode" considered to be American words, not French?
It makes sense only in American. As far as I know French restaurants
don't serve magpie, fashionably or otherwise.
If it were AusE, "à la mode" in connection with pie would probably mean
"with tomato sauce".
It's used in Canada, too (ice cream on fruit pie, not tomato sauce on
meat pie), and I don't think it's considered to be French. Well, I
suppose people know the phrase came from French, but it seems to be
accepted as English, or practically English.
By the way, you have very nice meat pies in Australia. Probably some
bad ones too, but I didn't buy the most suspicious-looking one, wrapped
in plastic as though it came from a factory, and the last survivor on a
rack with a sign reading "Half Price!!" I skipped the tomato sauce -
I'm not that fond of ketchup, and it looked much the same sort of thing.
It's never a good idea to buy food at a reduced price. It may be OK
(and usually probably is) but it may not.

There is a major scandal brewing in France at the moment over milk
powder for babies contaminated with Salmonella. The authorities knew
about it last August but did nothing until November, when they ordered
the lot to be withdrawn. A major supermarket chain made only feeble
attempts to do it, continuing to sell it (not at a reduced price,
however!) until a little while ago and some babies have become ill,
though I don't think any have died. I'm sure that there will be a court
case followed by large fines, and probably also a civil case with
punitive damages. It would be nice if someone went to gaol as well, but
I don't suppose that will happen unless a baby dies.
--
athel
Cheryl
2018-01-11 16:34:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Lewis
[ ... ]
5.  "Specials" can be offered, but the person who takes the
order doesn't describe how the special is cooked or what spices
are used. The description of the "Special" should be something
like "Spaghetti with meatballs" and nothing more elaborate in the
description.  The servers will never use words like "drizzled
with...", "a hint of...", any French words (other than to say
"The soup de jour of the day is...", or "plated".
Pie a la mode is allowed.
"a la mode" considered to be American words, not French?
It makes sense only in American. As far as I know French restaurants
don't serve magpie, fashionably or otherwise.
If it were AusE, "à la mode" in connection with pie would probably mean
"with tomato sauce".
It's used in Canada, too (ice cream on fruit pie, not tomato sauce on
meat pie), and I don't think it's considered to be French. Well, I
suppose people know the phrase came from French, but it seems to be
accepted as English, or practically English.
By the way, you have very nice meat pies in Australia. Probably some
bad ones too, but I didn't buy the most suspicious-looking one,
wrapped in plastic as though it came from a factory, and the last
survivor on a rack with a sign reading "Half Price!!" I skipped the
tomato sauce - I'm not that fond of ketchup, and it looked much the
same sort of thing.
It's never a good idea to buy food at a reduced price. It may be OK (and
usually probably is) but it may not.
There is a major scandal brewing in France at the moment over milk
powder for babies contaminated with Salmonella. The authorities knew
about it last August but did nothing until November, when they ordered
the lot to be withdrawn. A major supermarket chain made only feeble
attempts to do it, continuing to sell it (not at a reduced price,
however!) until a little while ago and some babies have become ill,
though I don't think any have died. I'm sure that there will be a court
case followed by large fines, and probably also a civil case with
punitive damages. It would be nice if someone went to gaol as well, but
I don't suppose that will happen unless a baby dies.
Good Lord! We recently had romaine lettuce removed from the supermarkets
because some was contaminated with E Coli, and they didn't wait months
to do it. And that's not for babies - although it wasn't trivial either,
one of the people infected died.
--
Cheryl
Lewis
2018-01-11 20:03:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cheryl
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Lewis
[ ... ]
5.  "Specials" can be offered, but the person who takes the
order doesn't describe how the special is cooked or what spices
are used. The description of the "Special" should be something
like "Spaghetti with meatballs" and nothing more elaborate in the
description.  The servers will never use words like "drizzled
with...", "a hint of...", any French words (other than to say
"The soup de jour of the day is...", or "plated".
Pie a la mode is allowed.
"a la mode" considered to be American words, not French?
It makes sense only in American. As far as I know French restaurants
don't serve magpie, fashionably or otherwise.
If it were AusE, "à la mode" in connection with pie would probably mean
"with tomato sauce".
It's used in Canada, too (ice cream on fruit pie, not tomato sauce on
meat pie), and I don't think it's considered to be French. Well, I
suppose people know the phrase came from French, but it seems to be
accepted as English, or practically English.
By the way, you have very nice meat pies in Australia. Probably some
bad ones too, but I didn't buy the most suspicious-looking one,
wrapped in plastic as though it came from a factory, and the last
survivor on a rack with a sign reading "Half Price!!" I skipped the
tomato sauce - I'm not that fond of ketchup, and it looked much the
same sort of thing.
It's never a good idea to buy food at a reduced price. It may be OK (and
usually probably is) but it may not.
There is a major scandal brewing in France at the moment over milk
powder for babies contaminated with Salmonella. The authorities knew
about it last August but did nothing until November, when they ordered
the lot to be withdrawn. A major supermarket chain made only feeble
attempts to do it, continuing to sell it (not at a reduced price,
however!) until a little while ago and some babies have become ill,
though I don't think any have died. I'm sure that there will be a court
case followed by large fines, and probably also a civil case with
punitive damages. It would be nice if someone went to gaol as well, but
I don't suppose that will happen unless a baby dies.
Good Lord! We recently had romaine lettuce removed from the supermarkets
because some was contaminated with E Coli, and they didn't wait months
to do it.
Wasn't it the case they THOUGHT it was contaminated? As in, better safe
than sorry, it seems like it was the lettuce.
Post by Cheryl
And that's not for babies - although it wasn't trivial either,
one of the people infected died.
It is *highly* illegal here for a company to sell something that has
been recalled. Anything that has been recalled.

In fact, you cannot find cribs at thrift shops because it is too hard to
find out if the crib had been recalled, so it is easier to not accept
them at all.
--
if you ever get that chimp off your back, if you ever find the thing
you lack, ah but you know you're only having a laugh. Oh, oh here we
go again -- until the end.
RH Draney
2018-01-11 22:11:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lewis
It is *highly* illegal here for a company to sell something that has
been recalled. Anything that has been recalled.
Ooh!...then I've received contraband goods!...

(Backstory: in 1999, Disney discovered that the videotapes of "The
Rescuers" that had just been sent to stores contained two frames of a
topless centerfold in the background of a chase scene and hastily
recalled all copies from stores...I found a sealed copy of that tape in
a Safeway supermarket that someone had failed to send back, and bought
it as a potential collectible...I still have it, still sealed)....r
Lewis
2018-01-11 15:39:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Lewis
[ ... ]
5. "Specials" can be offered, but the person who takes the order
doesn't describe how the special is cooked or what spices are used.
The description of the "Special" should be something like "Spaghetti
with meatballs" and nothing more elaborate in the description. The
servers will never use words like "drizzled with...", "a hint of...",
any French words (other than to say "The soup de jour of the day
is...", or "plated".
Pie a la mode is allowed.
"a la mode" considered to be American words, not French?
By most Americans? Yes, I expect so.
--
The person on the other side was a young woman. Very obviously a young
woman. There was no possible way that she could have been mistaken for a
young man in any language, especially Braille.
Lewis
2018-01-11 06:29:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cheryl
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
I don't know about cafeterias,I haven't seen a Furr's in years, but
diners are common.
In my experience, cafeterias are usually found in large institutions,
That is a form of cafeteria, but it is not what was meant above. There
used to be, or perhaps still are, some chains of cafeterias. The only
two I remember were Wyatt's and Furr's, and I'm not sure I ever went to
Wyatt's. These were stand alone restaurants and not associated with any
institution. I think they have gone away and were replace with
all-you-can eat buffets like Golden Corral.
Post by Cheryl
I don't know what a diner is today. The word to me means the kind of
place you see in movies set in the 1950s, and I think they may have been
replaced by "food courts" and fast food restaurants.
There are still diners with counters and booths serving usually at least
breakfast and lunch, though some are open 24 hours.

There is (or was) a TV series in recent years called "Diners, Drive-ins
and Dives" (I didn't leave out the comma, they did) that was a tour of
various restaurants in those catagories.

To be a diner the place must server breakfast and must have a counter
where you can sit and eat. Other seating is optional.

On our way to the eclipse, we stopped for lunch in a tiny diner in
North Platte, Nebraska, Penny's Diner.

<https://oaktreeinn.com/pennys-diner/>
Post by Cheryl
There are some small and not very expensive restaurants, of course, but
I don't think I'd call them diners. They don't seem to have the decor I
associate with the term. Some claim to be cafes (but not cafeterias) and
others have names referring to the type of cuisine they produce. If they
do specialize in a cuisine, they will generally also have a small
selection of "Canadian food" (hamburgers and fries, for example). People
of all ages will eat there who can't afford the higher-end restaurants,
or who want a quick and informal meal.
I've been to a restaurant that I would place right on the edge of diner
in Canada, White Spot (not the same as the White Spot chain that used to
exist in the USA), but not quite a diner, though I've been told that
some locations are more diner-like than the one we went to in downtown
Vancouver.

We didn't go to Lucy's Eastside Diner, but it certainly looks like a
diner to me (scroll down for pictures):

<http://www.lucyseastsidediner.com>
--
Nine-tenths of the universe is the knowledge of the position and
direction of everything in the other tenth. Every atom has its
biography, every star its file, every chemical exchange its equivalent
of the inspector with a clipboard. It is unaccounted for because it is
doing the accounting for the rest of it. Nine-tenths of the universe, in
fact, is the paperwork. --The Thief of Time
b***@shaw.ca
2018-01-11 08:26:54 UTC
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Post by Lewis
Post by Cheryl
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
I don't know about cafeterias,I haven't seen a Furr's in years, but
diners are common.
In my experience, cafeterias are usually found in large institutions,
That is a form of cafeteria, but it is not what was meant above. There
used to be, or perhaps still are, some chains of cafeterias. The only
two I remember were Wyatt's and Furr's, and I'm not sure I ever went to
Wyatt's. These were stand alone restaurants and not associated with any
institution. I think they have gone away and were replace with
all-you-can eat buffets like Golden Corral.
There is a range of eateries called cafeterias. What they have in common, as I
understand it, is that they offer little or no table service. The customer
usually pushes or carries a tray with a plate on it past food stations.
I've eaten many lunches in the company cafeteria, and they weren't all bad.
(snips)
Post by Lewis
I've been to a restaurant that I would place right on the edge of diner
in Canada, White Spot (not the same as the White Spot chain that used to
exist in the USA), but not quite a diner, though I've been told that
some locations are more diner-like than the one we went to in downtown
Vancouver.
The Vancouver-based White Spot chain was a family business from the 1920s
that survived multiple generations of restaurant fashions. I got to know it in
the 1980s, when their best-seller was a hamburger with a tasty sauce and
a generous side of fries. The founder had the local minor league baseball stadium named after him. (Or perhaps, he was the high bidder in an informal
naming-rights auction.)

White Spot has evolved into what you saw, and possibly a bit beyond. You can
still order a tasty burger with a big heap of fries, but most of the
menu is very mainstream and changes with evolving trends.
Post by Lewis
We didn't go to Lucy's Eastside Diner, but it certainly looks like a
<http://www.lucyseastsidediner.com>
I haven't eaten there, but I might have. It appears to be one of the
newish, consciously cool restaurants on Main Street, which runs through
Vancouver's trendiest neighbourhood of the last decade or so.

Main is an old streetcar route with mostly retail at ground level. Over
the last few decades, most of that retail has evolved into antiques stores,
trendy restaurants and fashion boutiques. There are a few holdovers from other eras.

Lucy's Eastside Diner is not a survivor of a bygone era, but rather
an attempt to profit from nostalgia for that era.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. I don't live near Main Street,
but I find reasons to be there from time to time. It's the kind of street
that encourages you to walk an extra block or three, just to see the
variety of goods and services the local shops have on offer.

bill
Jerry Friedman
2018-01-11 16:06:59 UTC
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...
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Lewis
Post by Cheryl
In my experience, cafeterias are usually found in large institutions,
That is a form of cafeteria, but it is not what was meant above. There
used to be, or perhaps still are, some chains of cafeterias. The only
two I remember were Wyatt's and Furr's, and I'm not sure I ever went to
Wyatt's. These were stand alone restaurants and not associated with any
institution. I think they have gone away and were replace with
all-you-can eat buffets like Golden Corral.
There is a range of eateries called cafeterias. What they have in common, as I
understand it, is that they offer little or no table service. The customer
usually pushes or carries a tray with a plate on it past food stations.
I've eaten many lunches in the company cafeteria, and they weren't all bad.
...

The other criterion is that you pay for each item you get, rather than
paying once for all you can eat as at the Golden Corral.
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Lewis
We didn't go to Lucy's Eastside Diner, but it certainly looks like a
<http://www.lucyseastsidediner.com>
I haven't eaten there, but I might have.
...

Huh. I'm not calling that wrong, but I couldn't say it.
--
Jerry Friedman
Tony Cooper
2018-01-10 17:44:56 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
In this area, the cafeterias have mostly been replaced by restaurants
that serve buffet-style. The Morrison's chain of cafeterias is sorely
missed by the blue-hair set.

Buffets are more expensive than cafeterias but do allow the diner to
chose from a variety of items. One similarity is that the blue-hair
set fills the buffets - as they did the cafeterias - for dinner
starting about 4 PM.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-01-10 22:37:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:44:56 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
In this area, the cafeterias have mostly been replaced by restaurants
that serve buffet-style. The Morrison's chain of cafeterias is sorely
missed by the blue-hair set.
Buffets are more expensive than cafeterias but do allow the diner to
chose from a variety of items. One similarity is that the blue-hair
set fills the buffets - as they did the cafeterias - for dinner
starting about 4 PM.
Re "blue-hair": I don't know how often the phrase is used now but in the
UK that would be "blue-rinse".

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_rinse

blue rinse
NOUN
1 A preparation used as a rinse on grey or white hair so as to give
it a temporary blue tint.

1.1 derogatory, informal as modifier Relating to conservative
elderly women.
‘the blue-rinse brigade’

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_hair

blue hair
NOUN
North American
derogatory, informal
An elderly woman, characterized as having hair that is treated with
blue rinse.

I'm not sure that it is always derogatory.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-10 22:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:44:56 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Buffets are more expensive than cafeterias but do allow the diner to
chose from a variety of items. One similarity is that the blue-hair
set fills the buffets - as they did the cafeterias - for dinner
starting about 4 PM.
Re "blue-hair": I don't know how often the phrase is used now but in the
UK that would be "blue-rinse".
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_rinse
blue rinse
NOUN
1 A preparation used as a rinse on grey or white hair so as to give
it a temporary blue tint.
1.1 derogatory, informal as modifier Relating to conservative
elderly women.
‘the blue-rinse brigade’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_hair
blue hair
NOUN
North American
derogatory, informal
An elderly woman, characterized as having hair that is treated with
blue rinse.
I'm not sure that it is always derogatory.
It is.

But then, you-lot think it's ok to call women "hens."

(You don't call a bachelor party a "cock party," do you?)
the Omrud
2018-01-10 22:50:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:44:56 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Buffets are more expensive than cafeterias but do allow the diner to
chose from a variety of items. One similarity is that the blue-hair
set fills the buffets - as they did the cafeterias - for dinner
starting about 4 PM.
Re "blue-hair": I don't know how often the phrase is used now but in the
UK that would be "blue-rinse".
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_rinse
blue rinse
NOUN
1 A preparation used as a rinse on grey or white hair so as to give
it a temporary blue tint.
1.1 derogatory, informal as modifier Relating to conservative
elderly women.
‘the blue-rinse brigade’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_hair
blue hair
NOUN
North American
derogatory, informal
An elderly woman, characterized as having hair that is treated with
blue rinse.
I'm not sure that it is always derogatory.
It is.
But then, you-lot think it's ok to call women "hens."
(You don't call a bachelor party a "cock party," do you?)
No, a "stag party" (more normally "a stag do"). Both are fixed phrases
with no derogatory meaning implied or inferred.

A "do" is an organised event or party, e.g. "a drinks do" or "a bit of a do"
--
David
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-10 23:01:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:44:56 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Buffets are more expensive than cafeterias but do allow the diner to
chose from a variety of items. One similarity is that the blue-hair
set fills the buffets - as they did the cafeterias - for dinner
starting about 4 PM.
Re "blue-hair": I don't know how often the phrase is used now but in the
UK that would be "blue-rinse".
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_rinse
blue rinse
NOUN
1 A preparation used as a rinse on grey or white hair so as to give
it a temporary blue tint.
1.1 derogatory, informal as modifier Relating to conservative
elderly women.
‘the blue-rinse brigade’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_hair
blue hair
NOUN
North American
derogatory, informal
An elderly woman, characterized as having hair that is treated with
blue rinse.
I'm not sure that it is always derogatory.
It is.
But then, you-lot think it's ok to call women "hens."
(You don't call a bachelor party a "cock party," do you?)
No, a "stag party" (more normally "a stag do"). Both are fixed phrases
with no derogatory meaning implied or inferred.
A "do" is an organised event or party, e.g. "a drinks do" or "a bit of a do"
"Hen do" seems even worse than "hen party."
the Omrud
2018-01-11 15:18:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by the Omrud
Post by Peter T. Daniels
But then, you-lot think it's ok to call women "hens."
(You don't call a bachelor party a "cock party," do you?)
No, a "stag party" (more normally "a stag do"). Both are fixed phrases
with no derogatory meaning implied or inferred.
A "do" is an organised event or party, e.g. "a drinks do" or "a bit of a do"
"Hen do" seems even worse than "hen party."
I've never been to either, but I'm confident that they are both awful.
--
David
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-01-11 16:27:45 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by the Omrud
Post by Peter T. Daniels
But then, you-lot think it's ok to call women "hens."
(You don't call a bachelor party a "cock party," do you?)
No, a "stag party" (more normally "a stag do"). Both are fixed phrases
with no derogatory meaning implied or inferred.
A "do" is an organised event or party, e.g. "a drinks do" or "a bit of a do"
"Hen do" seems even worse than "hen party."
I've never been to either, but I'm confident that they are both awful.
Nor have I, and I shudder to think of the awfulness. Not my sort of
thing at all. Nor has my wife.
--
athel
Mack A. Damia
2018-01-11 18:48:39 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by the Omrud
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by the Omrud
Post by Peter T. Daniels
But then, you-lot think it's ok to call women "hens."
(You don't call a bachelor party a "cock party," do you?)
No, a "stag party" (more normally "a stag do"). Both are fixed phrases
with no derogatory meaning implied or inferred.
A "do" is an organised event or party, e.g. "a drinks do" or "a bit of a do"
"Hen do" seems even worse than "hen party."
I've never been to either, but I'm confident that they are both awful.
I have heard of "pullet parties" among horny adolescents.
Janet
2018-01-11 14:42:14 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
But then, you-lot think it's ok to call women "hens."
(You don't call a bachelor party a "cock party," do you?)
No, we call it a stag party. Stag is the term for a male turkey.

Cock is a north-England casual, friendly term of address to males.
Hen is the equivalent address to females (in N England and SW Scotland).

The bird pet-names are informal regional Br. E slang
( cock, hen, bird, chick, duck, sparra ). Casual but not derogatory, the
equivalent of "mate, pal, lad, luv". Duck is used to males, females
and children. Cock is always used to men. Chick is usually used to
children, hen to women, bird about young women.

Janet.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-11 15:24:48 UTC
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Post by Janet
. Stag is the term for a male turkey.
Say what now?
Janet
2018-01-11 17:35:36 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
. Stag is the term for a male turkey.
Say what now?
https://www.nfuonline.com/back-british-farming/uk-turkeys/turkey-facts/

"Turkey facts:

A young turkey is called a poult

A male turkey is a stag and a female is a hen"

Janet
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 17:40:57 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
. Stag is the term for a male turkey.
Say what now?
https://www.nfuonline.com/back-british-farming/uk-turkeys/turkey-facts/
A young turkey is called a poult
A male turkey is a stag and a female is a hen"
So what's tom, chopped liver?
b***@shaw.ca
2018-01-12 01:09:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Janet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
. Stag is the term for a male turkey.
Say what now?
https://www.nfuonline.com/back-british-farming/uk-turkeys/turkey-facts/
A young turkey is called a poult
A male turkey is a stag and a female is a hen"
So what's tom, chopped liver?
They're both in use, but a not very extensive Web search tells me
that "stag" is mainly the British usage, while "tom" is more popular
in the U.S.

bill
Richard Yates
2018-01-11 18:25:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
. Stag is the term for a male turkey.
Say what now?
https://www.nfuonline.com/back-british-farming/uk-turkeys/turkey-facts/
A young turkey is called a poult
That means that "poultry" is also an adjective!
Post by Janet
A male turkey is a stag and a female is a hen"
Janet
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-01-11 22:04:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
. Stag is the term for a male turkey.
Say what now?
https://www.nfuonline.com/back-british-farming/uk-turkeys/turkey-facts/
A young turkey is called a poult
A male turkey is a stag and a female is a hen"
Janet
I looked at the OED entry for stag and was surprised at the number of
meanings:

stag, n.1
1.
a. The male of a deer, esp. of the red deer; spec. a hart or male
deer of the fifth year. (In the 15th c. †stag of a hart.)
b. fig. Also in phrases †to go in stag: To go naked. †to make (a
husband) a stag, to make to wear the stag's crest = to cuckold.
(Obs.)
c. In the names of various species of the genus Cervus. axis stag
n. an Indian deer ( C. axis). Carolina Stag n. the North American
Wapiti ( C. canadensis).
d. The flesh of the stag; venison. rare—1.
e. The horn of the stag, as a material for handles of cutlery. Also
attrib.
†f. transf. flying stag, the stag-beetle n. Obs.

2. north. and Sc. A young horse, esp. one unbroken.

3. An animal castrated when full grown.
a. A bull; more fully bull stag. Now dial., Sc. and Austral.
b. A boar, hog, or ram. dial.

4. Applied to the male of various birds. (Cf. steg n.)
a. A cock. dial. Also spec. in Cock-fighting, a cock less than one
year old.
b. A turkey-cock of two years and upwards.
†c. A young swan. Obs. (Cf. steg n. swan.)

5. dial. The wren.

6. dial. and colloq. A big, romping girl; a bold woman.

7. slang. [Probably < sense 1; but the reason for the use is
obscure.]
a. An informer; esp. in phrase to turn stag. Also see quot. 1725.
b. (See quots.)
1823 ‘J. Bee’ Slang s.v. Queer bail are ‘stag’: those men who
being hired at a guinea or two per oath, to swear they are worth
vast sums, stand about judges' chambers in term-time.
1848 J. R. Bartlett Dict. Americanisms (at cited word) In the
New York courts, a stag is the technical name for a man who is
always ready to aid in proving an alibi, of course ‘for a
consideration’.
c. (See quot. 1857.)
1857 ‘Ducange Anglicus’ Vulgar Tongue 20 Stag, shilling.
d. A spell of duty. (See also quot. 1881.)
1881 S. Evans Evans's Leicestershire Words (new ed.) 255 A
‘stag’ is also one set to watch while his fellows are engaged in
anything in which they wish not to be caught.
e. ellipt. for stag-dinner n., stag-party n. at Compounds 1c, etc.
(Compounds 1c). N. Amer.
f. U.S. A man who attends a social function without a female
partner. Also quasi-adv. in phr. to go stag.

8. Comm. slang.
a. A person who applies for an allocation of shares in a joint-stock
concern solely with a view to selling immediately at a profit.
b. (See quot. 1854.)
1854 H. Ayres Fenn's Eng. & Foreign Funds 109 A Stag is one
who is not a Member of the Stock Exchange, but deals outside,
and is sometimes called an ‘Outsider’.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-11 23:16:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
. Stag is the term for a male turkey.
Say what now?
https://www.nfuonline.com/back-british-farming/uk-turkeys/turkey-facts/
A young turkey is called a poult
A male turkey is a stag and a female is a hen"
First I've heard of it. But even so there is no way that the stag-do
is named after stupid turkeys. It's an entirely different beast (in
every sense)! Think rutting!
Janet
2018-01-12 00:26:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
. Stag is the term for a male turkey.
Say what now?
https://www.nfuonline.com/back-british-farming/uk-turkeys/turkey-facts/
A young turkey is called a poult
A male turkey is a stag and a female is a hen"
First I've heard of it. But even so there is no way that the stag-do
is named after stupid turkeys.
Of course it is. That's why hen parties are not called doe parties.

It's an entirely different beast (in
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
every sense)! Think rutting!
Think wallowing in mud and urine to attract females? Dream on.

Janet
Tony Cooper
2018-01-11 00:04:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 22:37:02 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:44:56 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
In this area, the cafeterias have mostly been replaced by restaurants
that serve buffet-style. The Morrison's chain of cafeterias is sorely
missed by the blue-hair set.
Buffets are more expensive than cafeterias but do allow the diner to
chose from a variety of items. One similarity is that the blue-hair
set fills the buffets - as they did the cafeterias - for dinner
starting about 4 PM.
Re "blue-hair": I don't know how often the phrase is used now but in the
UK that would be "blue-rinse".
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_rinse
blue rinse
NOUN
1 A preparation used as a rinse on grey or white hair so as to give
it a temporary blue tint.
1.1 derogatory, informal as modifier Relating to conservative
elderly women.
‘the blue-rinse brigade’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_hair
blue hair
NOUN
North American
derogatory, informal
An elderly woman, characterized as having hair that is treated with
blue rinse.
I'm not sure that it is always derogatory.
Nor am I.

Dunno about that "conservative", either.

If you use any term to describe an identifiable group of people,
someone's going to think it's derogatory.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-01-11 16:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 22:37:02 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:44:56 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
In this area, the cafeterias have mostly been replaced by restaurants
that serve buffet-style. The Morrison's chain of cafeterias is sorely
missed by the blue-hair set.
Buffets are more expensive than cafeterias but do allow the diner to
chose from a variety of items. One similarity is that the blue-hair
set fills the buffets - as they did the cafeterias - for dinner
starting about 4 PM.
Re "blue-hair": I don't know how often the phrase is used now but in the
UK that would be "blue-rinse".
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_rinse
blue rinse
NOUN
1 A preparation used as a rinse on grey or white hair so as to give
it a temporary blue tint.
1.1 derogatory, informal as modifier Relating to conservative
elderly women.
‘the blue-rinse brigade’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_hair
blue hair
NOUN
North American
derogatory, informal
An elderly woman, characterized as having hair that is treated with
blue rinse.
I'm not sure that it is always derogatory.
Nor am I.
Dunno about that "conservative", either.
If you use any term to describe an identifiable group of people,
someone's going to think it's derogatory.
Many years ago my sister went to Altrincham School for Girls. Very
recently the school has instructed the teachers to eschew the term
"girls", for fear that trans pupils will feel discriminated against.
They plan to keep "Girls" in the name of the school, but it's only a
matter of time before someone finds that discriminatory -- the sort of
person who finds "homosexual" and "poetess" offensive when applied to
homosexuals and poetesses.
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 16:47:41 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Many years ago my sister went to Altrincham School for Girls. Very
recently the school has instructed the teachers to eschew the term
"girls", for fear that trans pupils will feel discriminated against.
They plan to keep "Girls" in the name of the school, but it's only a
matter of time before someone finds that discriminatory -- the sort of
person who finds "homosexual" and "poetess" offensive when applied to
homosexuals and poetesses.
Could there be a more baldface expression of (elderly) white heterosexual male privilege?

From the class that has never encountered any prejudice and hence cannot
imagine it affecting anyone else?

(Heathfield is in the same category.)
Cheryl
2018-01-11 16:50:09 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 22:37:02 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:44:56 -0500, Tony Cooper
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 08:46:10 -0700, Ken Blake
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
On Tuesday, January 9, 2018 at 6:05:33 AM UTC-8, Janet
20-30 years ago, ( Why do so many older folks eat in diners
/ cafeterias ? ) was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few
diners and very few cafeterias that still exist in any part
of the USA.
In this area, the cafeterias have mostly been replaced by
restaurants that serve buffet-style. The Morrison's chain of
cafeterias is sorely missed by the blue-hair set.
Buffets are more expensive than cafeterias but do allow the
diner to chose from a variety of items. One similarity is that
the blue-hair set fills the buffets - as they did the
cafeterias - for dinner starting about 4 PM.
Re "blue-hair": I don't know how often the phrase is used now but
in the UK that would be "blue-rinse".
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_rinse
blue rinse NOUN 1 A preparation used as a rinse on grey or white
hair so as to give it a temporary blue tint.
1.1 derogatory, informal as modifier Relating to conservative
elderly women. ‘the blue-rinse brigade’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_hair
blue hair NOUN North American derogatory, informal An elderly
woman, characterized as having hair that is treated with blue
rinse.
I'm not sure that it is always derogatory.
Nor am I.
Dunno about that "conservative", either.
If you use any term to describe an identifiable group of people,
someone's going to think it's derogatory.
Many years ago my sister went to Altrincham School for Girls. Very
recently the school has instructed the teachers to eschew the term
"girls", for fear that trans pupils will feel discriminated against.
They plan to keep "Girls" in the name of the school, but it's only a
matter of time before someone finds that discriminatory -- the sort
of person who finds "homosexual" and "poetess" offensive when applied
to homosexuals and poetesses.
I found it interesting - and a bit encouraging - to note the changes to
local school names when the last single-sex schools were made
co-educational and the denominational system gave way to a secular one.
What encouraged me was that there wasn't a uniform response to names.
Presumably, the school board - they're calling themselves a school
district now - didn't make some kind of general ruling. Maybe they left
the decision up to the local school councils - bodies that generally
don't have a lot of clout, in my opinion. So some schools were re-named,
usually after the street they were on or some nearby geographical
feature, and others maintained their original names.

To people of a certain generation, it does seem odd to have boys attend
Holy Heart of Mary, which was a large (by local standards) girls-only
Catholic school for many years. Of course, to the students attending the
school, it's normal to think of it as a secular co-educational school
since they aren't old enough to remember the old days.
--
Cheryl
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 17:04:35 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
To people of a certain generation, it does seem odd to have boys attend
Holy Heart of Mary, which was a large (by local standards) girls-only
Catholic school for many years. Of course, to the students attending the
school, it's normal to think of it as a secular co-educational school
since they aren't old enough to remember the old days.
When I was little, there was talk of sending me to a local parochial school,
Our Lady Queen Amadis, rather than public school (then they found St. Hilda's,
which added St. Hugh a few years later). Many years later I learned of Our
Lady, Queen of Martyrs.
Cheryl
2018-01-11 17:18:11 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Cheryl
To people of a certain generation, it does seem odd to have boys attend
Holy Heart of Mary, which was a large (by local standards) girls-only
Catholic school for many years. Of course, to the students attending the
school, it's normal to think of it as a secular co-educational school
since they aren't old enough to remember the old days.
When I was little, there was talk of sending me to a local parochial school,
Our Lady Queen Amadis, rather than public school (then they found St. Hilda's,
which added St. Hugh a few years later). Many years later I learned of Our
Lady, Queen of Martyrs.
I have never understood why the local Catholics, with all the names they
could have chosen, named one of the city churches Mary Queen of Peace
and another one Mary Queen of the World. I confuse them, unless I
remember the rule that the one with 'W' in the name is in the west end,
so the other one must be in the east end.

I have less excuse for confusing St. David's and St. Andrew's, except
that they're both Presbyterian churches, and practically no one calls
St. Andrew's anything but The Kirk so when I hear a reference to a
Presbyterian church named for either saint, I think the speaker means
St. David's.
--
Cheryl
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 17:29:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Cheryl
To people of a certain generation, it does seem odd to have boys attend
Holy Heart of Mary, which was a large (by local standards) girls-only
Catholic school for many years. Of course, to the students attending the
school, it's normal to think of it as a secular co-educational school
since they aren't old enough to remember the old days.
When I was little, there was talk of sending me to a local parochial school,
Our Lady Queen Amadis, rather than public school (then they found St. Hilda's,
which added St. Hugh a few years later). Many years later I learned of Our
Lady, Queen of Martyrs.
I have never understood why the local Catholics, with all the names they
could have chosen, named one of the city churches Mary Queen of Peace
and another one Mary Queen of the World. I confuse them, unless I
remember the rule that the one with 'W' in the name is in the west end,
so the other one must be in the east end.
I have less excuse for confusing St. David's and St. Andrew's, except
that they're both Presbyterian churches, and practically no one calls
St. Andrew's anything but The Kirk so when I hear a reference to a
Presbyterian church named for either saint, I think the speaker means
St. David's.
Oh, dear. Down Here a Presbyterian church wouldn't have a saint's name. They're
numbered, or they're named for streets or neighborhoods.

I went to Fort Washington Presbyterian Church, which was 8 blocks south of our
apartment house (because when it became time to send me to Sunday School, I
had to choose between going with David or with Cathy, who went to the Baptist
church; it must have been before I entered first grade at St. Hilda's, or
wouldn't I have gone to Holy Rood Episcopal, two blocks from my grandmother's
house, which is currently in the news because it is affording sanctuary to an
undocumented immigrant). At some time after I moved to Chicago, its dwindling
congregation (which had been Scotch-Irish) merged with Washington Heights
Presbyterian Church, which was about 6 blocks north of our house. It's now
awkwardly called Fort Washington Heights Presbyterian Church and seems mostly
Hispanophone but occupies the landmarked Fort Washington building (Carrère &
Hastings, 1913).
Cheryl
2018-01-11 17:52:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Cheryl
To people of a certain generation, it does seem odd to have boys attend
Holy Heart of Mary, which was a large (by local standards) girls-only
Catholic school for many years. Of course, to the students attending the
school, it's normal to think of it as a secular co-educational school
since they aren't old enough to remember the old days.
When I was little, there was talk of sending me to a local parochial school,
Our Lady Queen Amadis, rather than public school (then they found St. Hilda's,
which added St. Hugh a few years later). Many years later I learned of Our
Lady, Queen of Martyrs.
I have never understood why the local Catholics, with all the names they
could have chosen, named one of the city churches Mary Queen of Peace
and another one Mary Queen of the World. I confuse them, unless I
remember the rule that the one with 'W' in the name is in the west end,
so the other one must be in the east end.
I have less excuse for confusing St. David's and St. Andrew's, except
that they're both Presbyterian churches, and practically no one calls
St. Andrew's anything but The Kirk so when I hear a reference to a
Presbyterian church named for either saint, I think the speaker means
St. David's.
Oh, dear. Down Here a Presbyterian church wouldn't have a saint's name. They're
numbered, or they're named for streets or neighborhoods.
I went to Fort Washington Presbyterian Church, which was 8 blocks south of our
apartment house (because when it became time to send me to Sunday School, I
had to choose between going with David or with Cathy, who went to the Baptist
church; it must have been before I entered first grade at St. Hilda's, or
wouldn't I have gone to Holy Rood Episcopal, two blocks from my grandmother's
house, which is currently in the news because it is affording sanctuary to an
undocumented immigrant). At some time after I moved to Chicago, its dwindling
congregation (which had been Scotch-Irish) merged with Washington Heights
Presbyterian Church, which was about 6 blocks north of our house. It's now
awkwardly called Fort Washington Heights Presbyterian Church and seems mostly
Hispanophone but occupies the landmarked Fort Washington building (Carrère &
Hastings, 1913).
Around here, a street name on a church is a sign that it's a United
Church - it might have begun existence as a Presbyterian church, but I
think the ones I know best were originally Methodist. Aside from the two
surviving Presbyterian congregations, saint's names indicate either RC
or Anglican, although you can usually narrow it down. St. Patrick's is,
naturally, RC, as is almost any church with Mary + a title (an exception
is St. Mary the Virgin, which is Anglican). Holy Trinity could be either
Anglican or Catholic.
--
Cheryl
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 21:52:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Cheryl
To people of a certain generation, it does seem odd to have boys attend
Holy Heart of Mary, which was a large (by local standards) girls-only
Catholic school for many years. Of course, to the students attending the
school, it's normal to think of it as a secular co-educational school
since they aren't old enough to remember the old days.
When I was little, there was talk of sending me to a local parochial school,
Our Lady Queen Amadis, rather than public school (then they found St. Hilda's,
which added St. Hugh a few years later). Many years later I learned of Our
Lady, Queen of Martyrs.
I have never understood why the local Catholics, with all the names they
could have chosen, named one of the city churches Mary Queen of Peace
and another one Mary Queen of the World. I confuse them, unless I
remember the rule that the one with 'W' in the name is in the west end,
so the other one must be in the east end.
I have less excuse for confusing St. David's and St. Andrew's, except
that they're both Presbyterian churches, and practically no one calls
St. Andrew's anything but The Kirk so when I hear a reference to a
Presbyterian church named for either saint, I think the speaker means
St. David's.
Oh, dear. Down Here a Presbyterian church wouldn't have a saint's name. They're
numbered, or they're named for streets or neighborhoods.
I went to Fort Washington Presbyterian Church, which was 8 blocks south of our
apartment house (because when it became time to send me to Sunday School, I
had to choose between going with David or with Cathy, who went to the Baptist
church; it must have been before I entered first grade at St. Hilda's, or
wouldn't I have gone to Holy Rood Episcopal, two blocks from my grandmother's
house, which is currently in the news because it is affording sanctuary to an
undocumented immigrant). At some time after I moved to Chicago, its dwindling
congregation (which had been Scotch-Irish) merged with Washington Heights
Presbyterian Church, which was about 6 blocks north of our house. It's now
awkwardly called Fort Washington Heights Presbyterian Church and seems mostly
Hispanophone but occupies the landmarked Fort Washington building (Carrère &
Hastings, 1913).
Around here, a street name on a church is a sign that it's a United
Church - it might have begun existence as a Presbyterian church, but I
think the ones I know best were originally Methodist. Aside from the two
surviving Presbyterian congregations, saint's names indicate either RC
or Anglican, although you can usually narrow it down. St. Patrick's is,
naturally, RC, as is almost any church with Mary + a title (an exception
is St. Mary the Virgin, which is Anglican). Holy Trinity could be either
Anglican or Catholic.
St. Mary the Virgin, or "Smoky Mary's," is the highest high Episcopal church
in New York, on a side street just off Times Square.

Trinity Church (which these days calls itself Trinity Wall Street in its url
and such) is the oldest Episcopal parish in the city, and fabulously wealthy:
apparently it owns whatever real estate Columbia University doesn't. It's
medium-high. In the floor at the threshold is a plaque designating where HRH
and the Duke of E stood when they were visiting their wayward child in the
Bicentennial year (1976).

NY's RC cathedral is St. Patrick's; Chicago's is Holy Name. It's a lot bigger
than St. James, the Episcopal one. They're only about three blocks apart.
David Kleinecke
2018-01-11 18:57:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Cheryl
To people of a certain generation, it does seem odd to have boys attend
Holy Heart of Mary, which was a large (by local standards) girls-only
Catholic school for many years. Of course, to the students attending the
school, it's normal to think of it as a secular co-educational school
since they aren't old enough to remember the old days.
When I was little, there was talk of sending me to a local parochial school,
Our Lady Queen Amadis, rather than public school (then they found St. Hilda's,
which added St. Hugh a few years later). Many years later I learned of Our
Lady, Queen of Martyrs.
I have never understood why the local Catholics, with all the names they
could have chosen, named one of the city churches Mary Queen of Peace
and another one Mary Queen of the World. I confuse them, unless I
remember the rule that the one with 'W' in the name is in the west end,
so the other one must be in the east end.
I have less excuse for confusing St. David's and St. Andrew's, except
that they're both Presbyterian churches, and practically no one calls
St. Andrew's anything but The Kirk so when I hear a reference to a
Presbyterian church named for either saint, I think the speaker means
St. David's.
Oh, dear. Down Here a Presbyterian church wouldn't have a saint's name. They're
numbered, or they're named for streets or neighborhoods.
I went to Fort Washington Presbyterian Church, which was 8 blocks south of our
apartment house (because when it became time to send me to Sunday School, I
had to choose between going with David or with Cathy, who went to the Baptist
church; it must have been before I entered first grade at St. Hilda's, or
wouldn't I have gone to Holy Rood Episcopal, two blocks from my grandmother's
house, which is currently in the news because it is affording sanctuary to an
undocumented immigrant). At some time after I moved to Chicago, its dwindling
congregation (which had been Scotch-Irish) merged with Washington Heights
Presbyterian Church, which was about 6 blocks north of our house. It's now
awkwardly called Fort Washington Heights Presbyterian Church and seems mostly
Hispanophone but occupies the landmarked Fort Washington building (Carrère &
Hastings, 1913).
When we moved to Berkeley in 1942 I had my membership in the
Presbyterian Church moved to St. John's Presbyterian in
Berkeley but I took advantage of the move to declare myself
an atheist and never attended St. Johns.

The building St. John's had is an architectural masterpiece by
Julia Morgan and is no longer a church but remains gorgeous.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-01-11 23:29:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:29:42 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Cheryl
To people of a certain generation, it does seem odd to have boys attend
Holy Heart of Mary, which was a large (by local standards) girls-only
Catholic school for many years. Of course, to the students attending the
school, it's normal to think of it as a secular co-educational school
since they aren't old enough to remember the old days.
When I was little, there was talk of sending me to a local parochial school,
Our Lady Queen Amadis, rather than public school (then they found St. Hilda's,
which added St. Hugh a few years later). Many years later I learned of Our
Lady, Queen of Martyrs.
I have never understood why the local Catholics, with all the names they
could have chosen, named one of the city churches Mary Queen of Peace
and another one Mary Queen of the World. I confuse them, unless I
remember the rule that the one with 'W' in the name is in the west end,
so the other one must be in the east end.
I have less excuse for confusing St. David's and St. Andrew's, except
that they're both Presbyterian churches, and practically no one calls
St. Andrew's anything but The Kirk so when I hear a reference to a
Presbyterian church named for either saint, I think the speaker means
St. David's.
Oh, dear. Down Here a Presbyterian church wouldn't have a saint's name. They're
numbered, or they're named for streets or neighborhoods.
I went to Fort Washington Presbyterian Church, which was 8 blocks south of our
apartment house (because when it became time to send me to Sunday School, I
had to choose between going with David or with Cathy, who went to the Baptist
church; it must have been before I entered first grade at St. Hilda's, or
wouldn't I have gone to Holy Rood Episcopal, two blocks from my grandmother's
house, which is currently in the news because it is affording sanctuary to an
undocumented immigrant). At some time after I moved to Chicago, its dwindling
congregation (which had been Scotch-Irish) merged with Washington Heights
Presbyterian Church, which was about 6 blocks north of our house. It's now
awkwardly called Fort Washington Heights Presbyterian Church and seems mostly
Hispanophone but occupies the landmarked Fort Washington building (Carrère &
Hastings, 1913).
In the land from which the Scotch-Irish came they are known as
Ulster-Scots.

I was about to say that saint's names are not used in the names of
Presyterian Churches here but top of the list in a Google search for
Post by Peter T. Daniels
presbyterian churches in east belfast< is St Andrew's.
The rest are named either geographically (district or street) or in
memory of someone.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Lewis
2018-01-11 20:08:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 22:37:02 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:44:56 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
In this area, the cafeterias have mostly been replaced by restaurants
that serve buffet-style. The Morrison's chain of cafeterias is sorely
missed by the blue-hair set.
Buffets are more expensive than cafeterias but do allow the diner to
chose from a variety of items. One similarity is that the blue-hair
set fills the buffets - as they did the cafeterias - for dinner
starting about 4 PM.
Re "blue-hair": I don't know how often the phrase is used now but in the
UK that would be "blue-rinse".
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_rinse
blue rinse
NOUN
1 A preparation used as a rinse on grey or white hair so as to give
it a temporary blue tint.
1.1 derogatory, informal as modifier Relating to conservative
elderly women.
‘the blue-rinse brigade’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_hair
blue hair
NOUN
North American
derogatory, informal
An elderly woman, characterized as having hair that is treated with
blue rinse.
I'm not sure that it is always derogatory.
Nor am I.
Dunno about that "conservative", either.
If you use any term to describe an identifiable group of people,
someone's going to think it's derogatory.
Many years ago my sister went to Altrincham School for Girls. Very
recently the school has instructed the teachers to eschew the term
"girls", for fear that trans pupils will feel discriminated against.
They plan to keep "Girls" in the name of the school, but it's only a
matter of time before someone finds that discriminatory -- the sort of
person who finds "homosexual" and "poetess" offensive when applied to
homosexuals and poetesses.
Poetess, being an entirely useless word that can only be used to
highlight that a poet is not male, seems solidly offensive. It's in the
same category as comedienne, aviatrix, actress, and male nurse.

I'll leave it for others to weigh in on homosexual, but we had that one
recently.
--
"He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends.." Oscar
Wilde
Janet
2018-01-11 13:55:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:44:56 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
In this area, the cafeterias have mostly been replaced by restaurants
that serve buffet-style. The Morrison's chain of cafeterias is sorely
missed by the blue-hair set.
Buffets are more expensive than cafeterias but do allow the diner to
chose from a variety of items. One similarity is that the blue-hair
set fills the buffets - as they did the cafeterias - for dinner
starting about 4 PM.
Re "blue-hair": I don't know how often the phrase is used now but in the
UK that would be "blue-rinse".
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_rinse
blue rinse
NOUN
1 A preparation used as a rinse on grey or white hair so as to give
it a temporary blue tint.
I haven't seen any blue-rinsed hair for decades.

Janet
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-11 14:08:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 12:44:56 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
On Tue, 9 Jan 2018 15:24:41 -0800 (PST), Hen Hanna
Post by Hen Hanna
20-30 years ago,
( Why do so many older folks eat in diners / cafeterias ? )
was a reasonable question.
I'm sure it's still true esp. in Middle-America.
Not in my experience. As far as I know, there are very few diners and
very few cafeterias that still exist in any part of the USA.
In this area, the cafeterias have mostly been replaced by restaurants
that serve buffet-style. The Morrison's chain of cafeterias is sorely
missed by the blue-hair set.
Buffets are more expensive than cafeterias but do allow the diner to
chose from a variety of items. One similarity is that the blue-hair
set fills the buffets - as they did the cafeterias - for dinner
starting about 4 PM.
Re "blue-hair": I don't know how often the phrase is used now but in the
UK that would be "blue-rinse".
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_rinse
blue rinse
NOUN
1 A preparation used as a rinse on grey or white hair so as to give
it a temporary blue tint.
I haven't seen any blue-rinsed hair for decades.
Well the necessary product is still on the shelves. They must be selling it to someone.
RH Draney
2018-01-11 19:38:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Re "blue-hair": I don't know how often the phrase is used now but in the
UK that would be "blue-rinse".
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_rinse
blue rinse
NOUN
1 A preparation used as a rinse on grey or white hair so as to give
it a temporary blue tint.
I haven't seen any blue-rinsed hair for decades.
I can't go out in public these days without seeing at least a few young
women with turquoise hair...I rather doubt they're dining in cafeterias....r
Tony Cooper
2018-01-11 20:28:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by RH Draney
Post by Janet
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Re "blue-hair": I don't know how often the phrase is used now but in the
UK that would be "blue-rinse".
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/blue_rinse
blue rinse
NOUN
1 A preparation used as a rinse on grey or white hair so as to give
it a temporary blue tint.
I haven't seen any blue-rinsed hair for decades.
I can't go out in public these days without seeing at least a few young
women with turquoise hair...I rather doubt they're dining in cafeterias....r
My wife's hair is white. This thread prompted me to trek upstairs and
see what her shampoo is. It is a "silver-brightening" shampoo.

The results with my wife don't in any way appear to be blue, but some
shampoo formulas do impart a blue tinge to white hair. The hair isn't
blue, but does have a bluish cast to it.

Drifting no so far, my wife and I were in a store recently and became
separated. Looking for her, I spotted a short, white-haired woman in
another aisle and started for her. But, that white hair did have a
blue tinge and I aborted the chase.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
RH Draney
2018-01-11 22:14:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
My wife's hair is white. This thread prompted me to trek upstairs and
see what her shampoo is. It is a "silver-brightening" shampoo.
The results with my wife don't in any way appear to be blue, but some
shampoo formulas do impart a blue tinge to white hair. The hair isn't
blue, but does have a bluish cast to it.
I have in my closet a bottle of Mrs Stewart's laundry bluing, which is
said to be the famous "blue rinse" than some white-haired women use to
excess...I used some of it Sunday night when I washed several loads of
whites at the laundromat (my hair, but not my beard, is too dark to
"benefit" from the grooming use of the product)....r
Lewis
2018-01-10 03:43:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by Hen Hanna
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically
eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
.... Do you agree ?
Many elderly people are widowed or alone for some reason. Some may not have a close network of friends.
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience, particularly in full-service restaurants, where management and service personnel sometimes make single patrons seem like interlopers.
To folks alienated from fast-food establishments, cafeterias are congenial places.
Several sources indicated that although older patrons tend to be fussy eaters, quality of food was not as important to them as the quality of the dining experience. For many people, eating out represents a vital and ..........
While the stereotype is that old people are rigid, in fact old people are loyal. If a cafeteria, or any restaurant, does a good job, ......
I don't recognise any of the above stereotypes among the older
people I know.
My wife's grandmother cared more for the experience of dining out and
being waited on than the quality of the food. Not that the quality
didn't matter at all, but it was definitely second to the service.

She was born in 1899, so I don't think her experience is exactly
relevant.
--
On the other hand, you have different fingers.
Ken Blake
2018-01-10 15:47:39 UTC
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On Wed, 10 Jan 2018 03:43:37 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
My wife's grandmother cared more for the experience of dining out and
being waited on than the quality of the food. Not that the quality
didn't matter at all, but it was definitely second to the service.
The same was true of my mother. She always claimed it wasn't true, but
it clearly wa
Hen Hanna
2018-01-10 19:51:22 UTC
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Post by Lewis
henhanna says...
Post by Hen Hanna
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
or an ex-cop played by Liam Neeson.

I love that scene where he says he'll come back
later and finish his meal.

He said he'd stopped doing these movies. Seriously?
Post by Lewis
Post by Hen Hanna
typically
eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
.... Do you agree ?
Many elderly people are widowed or alone for some reason. Some may not have a close network of friends.
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience, particularly in full-service restaurants, where management and service personnel sometimes make single patrons seem like interlopers.
To folks alienated from fast-food establishments, cafeterias are congenial places.
Several sources indicated that although older patrons tend to be fussy eaters, quality of food was not as important to them as the quality of the dining experience. For many people, eating out represents a vital and ..........
While the stereotype is that old people are rigid, in fact old people are loyal. If a cafeteria, or any restaurant, does a good job, ......
I think he (Feldman) also mentioned coffee... No coffee
in fast food places, until just a decade (or so?) ago.
Post by Lewis
I don't recognise any of the above stereotypes among the older
people I know.
My wife's grandmother cared more for the experience of dining out and
being waited on than the quality of the food. Not that the quality
didn't matter at all, but it was definitely second to the service.
She was born in 1899, so I don't think her experience is exactly
relevant.
actually, that's the most relevant age-group. I thnk.



(in Andy Rooney's voice)

Have you ever noticed that in certain diners and cafeterias,
almost all of the patrons are older folks ?
I've always wondered why that is, especially
now I'm joining that demographic group.


Also, have you noticed that in movies they are always
showing diners and cafeterias with young and older
(think Lily Tomlin) waitresses ?

I personally like it myself, because those scenes have that
"good ol' days in the small-town back home"
nostalgic
feel to it. ........

HH
Janet
2018-01-10 20:03:21 UTC
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Post by Hen Hanna
Post by Lewis
My wife's grandmother cared more for the experience of dining out and
being waited on than the quality of the food. Not that the quality
didn't matter at all, but it was definitely second to the service.
She was born in 1899, so I don't think her experience is exactly
relevant.
actually, that's the most relevant age-group. I thnk.
Relevant to what?

People born 119 years ago are all dead.

Janet.
s***@gowanhill.com
2018-01-10 20:54:47 UTC
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Post by Hen Hanna
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
Depends on time and location.

In previous decades:
- men didn't know how to cook
- single people often had a bedroom or bedsit room with very limited cooking facilities (maybe a gas or electric ring in the fireplace)
- such room was often poorly heated or had a coin meter for heating
- until transistor radios became affordable, no entertainment at home
- very few options of ready meals or things that could be heated up

Therefore diners/bistros/pubs offered not only food but somewhere warm and companioniable.

Owain
Tony Cooper
2018-01-11 00:13:05 UTC
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Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Post by Hen Hanna
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
Depends on time and location.
- men didn't know how to cook
- single people often had a bedroom or bedsit room with very limited cooking facilities (maybe a gas or electric ring in the fireplace)
- such room was often poorly heated or had a coin meter for heating
- until transistor radios became affordable, no entertainment at home
- very few options of ready meals or things that could be heated up
Therefore diners/bistros/pubs offered not only food but somewhere warm and companioniable.
Owain
The traveling business man often, if not usually, eats dinner alone.
Personally, when I was traveling several days a week and eating dinner
alone, I preferred being alone and able to read a book to joining up
with someone. I didn't want companionship. Never went to bars on the
road unless I was with a group.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Janet
2018-01-11 14:12:12 UTC
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In article <***@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
The traveling business man often, if not usually, eats dinner alone.
As do women travelling solo as we often do, for business or any other
reason.

Janet.
Tony Cooper
2018-01-11 17:25:03 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
The traveling business man often, if not usually, eats dinner alone.
As do women travelling solo as we often do, for business or any other
reason.
"Gotcha" acknowledged.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
RH Draney
2018-01-11 03:19:39 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Post by Hen Hanna
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
Depends on time and location.
- men didn't know how to cook
- single people often had a bedroom or bedsit room with very limited cooking facilities (maybe a gas or electric ring in the fireplace)
- such room was often poorly heated or had a coin meter for heating
- until transistor radios became affordable, no entertainment at home
- very few options of ready meals or things that could be heated up
Therefore diners/bistros/pubs offered not only food but somewhere warm and companioniable.
And a jukebox, to fulfill the need for entertainment....r
b***@shaw.ca
2018-01-11 05:19:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by RH Draney
Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Post by Hen Hanna
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
Depends on time and location.
- men didn't know how to cook
- single people often had a bedroom or bedsit room with very limited cooking facilities (maybe a gas or electric ring in the fireplace)
- such room was often poorly heated or had a coin meter for heating
- until transistor radios became affordable, no entertainment at home
- very few options of ready meals or things that could be heated up
Therefore diners/bistros/pubs offered not only food but somewhere warm and companioniable.
And a jukebox, to fulfill the need for entertainment....r
Remember the ones with booths, and a mini-juke box mechanism at the wall
end of each booth? When I first encountered them in 1959, I think it cost
a dime to play a song, and three for a quarter.

bill
Rich Ulrich
2018-01-11 18:42:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by RH Draney
Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Post by Hen Hanna
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
Depends on time and location.
- men didn't know how to cook
- single people often had a bedroom or bedsit room with very limited cooking facilities (maybe a gas or electric ring in the fireplace)
- such room was often poorly heated or had a coin meter for heating
- until transistor radios became affordable, no entertainment at home
- very few options of ready meals or things that could be heated up
Therefore diners/bistros/pubs offered not only food but somewhere warm and companioniable.
And a jukebox, to fulfill the need for entertainment....r
Remember the ones with booths, and a mini-juke box mechanism at the wall
end of each booth? When I first encountered them in 1959, I think it cost
a dime to play a song, and three for a quarter.
There are still mini-jukes at the wall end of each booth at
Ritter's Diner. I will be eating at Ritter's, seated at the counter,
later today, as I have done for many years. The front room is
wider than the classical, converted railway diner car - it has booths
on both sides of an aisle.

When they rebuilt at a new location (across the street) forty
years ago, the front room was made wider and a large back
room was added. The back room has tables, and can serve large
groups.

Partly because it is family-run, there are waitresses who stay
forever. I remember worrying about infirmity in a couple of
blue hair waitresses who were still working beyond (my guess)
age 75 and 80.
--
Rich Ulrich
Tony Cooper
2018-01-11 19:15:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 13:42:52 -0500, Rich Ulrich
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by RH Draney
Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Post by Hen Hanna
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
Depends on time and location.
- men didn't know how to cook
- single people often had a bedroom or bedsit room with very limited cooking facilities (maybe a gas or electric ring in the fireplace)
- such room was often poorly heated or had a coin meter for heating
- until transistor radios became affordable, no entertainment at home
- very few options of ready meals or things that could be heated up
Therefore diners/bistros/pubs offered not only food but somewhere warm and companioniable.
And a jukebox, to fulfill the need for entertainment....r
Remember the ones with booths, and a mini-juke box mechanism at the wall
end of each booth? When I first encountered them in 1959, I think it cost
a dime to play a song, and three for a quarter.
There are still mini-jukes at the wall end of each booth at
Ritter's Diner. I will be eating at Ritter's, seated at the counter,
later today, as I have done for many years. The front room is
wider than the classical, converted railway diner car - it has booths
on both sides of an aisle.
When they rebuilt at a new location (across the street) forty
years ago, the front room was made wider and a large back
room was added. The back room has tables, and can serve large
groups.
Partly because it is family-run, there are waitresses who stay
forever. I remember worrying about infirmity in a couple of
blue hair waitresses who were still working beyond (my guess)
age 75 and 80.
In my list of requirements to meet the definition of "diner" I almost
included:

10. At least one waitress with varicose veins and wearing support
hose.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
John Varela
2018-01-12 01:18:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 19:15:00 UTC, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 11 Jan 2018 13:42:52 -0500, Rich Ulrich
Post by Rich Ulrich
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by RH Draney
Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Post by Hen Hanna
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
Depends on time and location.
- men didn't know how to cook
- single people often had a bedroom or bedsit room with very limited cooking facilities (maybe a gas or electric ring in the fireplace)
- such room was often poorly heated or had a coin meter for heating
- until transistor radios became affordable, no entertainment at home
- very few options of ready meals or things that could be heated up
Therefore diners/bistros/pubs offered not only food but somewhere warm and companioniable.
And a jukebox, to fulfill the need for entertainment....r
Remember the ones with booths, and a mini-juke box mechanism at the wall
end of each booth? When I first encountered them in 1959, I think it cost
a dime to play a song, and three for a quarter.
There are still mini-jukes at the wall end of each booth at
Ritter's Diner. I will be eating at Ritter's, seated at the counter,
later today, as I have done for many years. The front room is
wider than the classical, converted railway diner car - it has booths
on both sides of an aisle.
When they rebuilt at a new location (across the street) forty
years ago, the front room was made wider and a large back
room was added. The back room has tables, and can serve large
groups.
Partly because it is family-run, there are waitresses who stay
forever. I remember worrying about infirmity in a couple of
blue hair waitresses who were still working beyond (my guess)
age 75 and 80.
In my list of requirements to meet the definition of "diner" I almost
10. At least one waitress with varicose veins and wearing support
hose.
You remind me of a restaurant (not a diner, but sort of diner-like)
we went to in Oxnard, California, in 1987. There was a waitress with
white hair in a bouffant hairdo who could have been Flo from the
"Alice" TV show, 35 years later.
--
John Varela
John Varela
2018-01-12 01:07:36 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by s***@gowanhill.com
- men didn't know how to cook
What do you mean, "in previous decades"? Unless you refer to the
previous 8+ decades that I haven't been able to cook. (Unless it's
fried or grilled.) (Can't boil water without burning it.)
--
John Varela
GordonD
2018-01-11 18:09:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man (think
Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank) typically eats dinner
alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more often in movies
than in real life.... .... Do you agree ?
Many elderly people are widowed or alone for some reason. Some
may not have a close network of friends.
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant
experience, particularly in full-service restaurants, where
management and service personnel sometimes make single patrons seem
like interlopers.
I was once working away from home and went out to a Chinese restaurant
near my hotel. I asked for a table for one, which got me an odd look
from the waiter, but he found one for me. As I was eating I became aware
that many of the other diners kept staring at me but it wasn't until I
got back to my hotel that I realised why.

It was Valentine's Day.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
RH Draney
2018-01-11 19:39:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by GordonD
I was once working away from home and went out to a Chinese restaurant
near my hotel. I asked for a table for one, which got me an odd look
from the waiter, but he found one for me. As I was eating I became aware
that many of the other diners kept staring at me but it wasn't until I
got back to my hotel that I realised why.
It was Valentine's Day.
Around here they'd've been staring at you because you're not Chinese....r
Mack A. Damia
2018-01-11 19:58:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by RH Draney
Post by GordonD
I was once working away from home and went out to a Chinese restaurant
near my hotel. I asked for a table for one, which got me an odd look
from the waiter, but he found one for me. As I was eating I became aware
that many of the other diners kept staring at me but it wasn't until I
got back to my hotel that I realised why.
It was Valentine's Day.
Around here they'd've been staring at you because you're not Chinese....r
"Deck the hall with boughs of horry...."
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-11 22:24:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by RH Draney
Post by GordonD
I was once working away from home and went out to a Chinese restaurant
near my hotel. I asked for a table for one, which got me an odd look
from the waiter, but he found one for me. As I was eating I became aware
that many of the other diners kept staring at me but it wasn't until I
got back to my hotel that I realised why.
It was Valentine's Day.
Around here they'd've been staring at you because you're not Chinese....r
"Deck the hall with boughs of horry...."
What an opportunity you passed up. "Deck the whore ..."
alex zuber
2018-01-11 22:09:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Hen Hanna
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically
eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
.... Do you agree ?
Many elderly people are widowed or alone for some reason. Some may not have a close network of friends.
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience, particularly in full-service restaurants, where management and service personnel sometimes make single patrons seem like interlopers.
To folks alienated from fast-food establishments, cafeterias are congenial places.
Several sources indicated that although older patrons tend to be fussy eaters, quality of food was not as important to them as the quality of the dining experience. For many people, eating out represents a vital and ..........
While the stereotype is that old people are rigid, in fact old people are loyal. If a cafeteria, or any restaurant, does a good job, ......
I HATE EATING ALONE MOST OF THE TIME.
John Varela
2018-01-12 01:19:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by alex zuber
Post by Hen Hanna
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically
eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
.... Do you agree ?
Many elderly people are widowed or alone for some reason. Some may not have a close network of friends.
For people of any age, dining alone is not the most pleasant experience, particularly in full-service restaurants, where management and service personnel sometimes make single patrons seem like interlopers.
To folks alienated from fast-food establishments, cafeterias are congenial places.
Several sources indicated that although older patrons tend to be fussy eaters, quality of food was not as important to them as the quality of the dining experience. For many people, eating out represents a vital and ..........
While the stereotype is that old people are rigid, in fact old people are loyal. If a cafeteria, or any restaurant, does a good job, ......
I HATE EATING ALONE MOST OF THE TIME.
DO YOU EAT ALONE MOST OF THE TIME AND HATE IT, OR DO YOU HATE MOST
OF THE TIMES WHEN YOU EAT ALONE?
--
John Varela
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