Discussion:
Many 'Americanisms' the British love to hate are actually old English expressions
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Dingbat
2017-05-16 11:47:11 UTC
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Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink if they hear a British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old 17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term “fall of the leaf”.

By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact, American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts newspaper in 1815.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/may/16/ill-gotten-gains-why-americanisms-are-a-boon-for-the-british
RH Draney
2017-05-16 12:23:12 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink if they hear a British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old 17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term “fall of the leaf”.
By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact, American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts newspaper in 1815.
Which is what makes this especially funny:

Loading Image...

....r
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-05-16 13:16:21 UTC
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On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:47:11 -0700 (PDT), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink if they hear a British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old 17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term “fall of
the leaf”.
"Passing" is not necessarily a euphemism. In Christianity it refers to
the soul leaving the body and passing on to the next phase of existence.
The person has passed out of earthly existence into the next stage of
eternity.

The soul is immortal. It is "housed" temporarily in a mortal body.

When a person "dies", it is only the body that dies. The soul, the
crucial part of the person, continues in existence although it has left,
passed on from, the body.
Post by Dingbat
By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact, American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts newspaper in 1815.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/may/16/ill-gotten-gains-why-americanisms-are-a-boon-for-the-british
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-16 13:43:28 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink
What does "reach for the green ink" mean? Is "green ink" Indian for "blue pencil"?
Post by Dingbat
if they hear a British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old 17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term “fall of the leaf”.
By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact, American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts newspaper in 1815.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/may/16/ill-gotten-gains-why-americanisms-are-a-boon-for-the-british
Adam Funk
2017-05-16 14:17:06 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink
What does "reach for the green ink" mean? Is "green ink" Indian for "blue pencil"?
Green ink is stereotypically (in BrE, at least) used by nutty and/or
irate correspondents.

None of these realities will prevent the green-ink brigade from
continuing to write to me, with copies of course to the Queen and
Tony Blair.

<https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/jul/06/society.health>

That's really all I've got to say and I'm only on page 41. So the
next 200 - sorry, 199, attention to pedantry is all-important -
will be filled with anecdotes and cuttings to get the Green Ink
Brigade spluttering over their cornflakes.

<https://www.theguardian.com/books/2006/nov/14/digestedread.johncrace>

Part of my job is to deal with people who can't or won't pay their
debts. I hear plenty of genuine hard-luck stories from the former,
and I get plenty of green ink from the latter.

<https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/18/freeman-land-strategy-bullet-debt>

("Freeman on the land" is a British nutty thing a bit like "posse
comitatus" but without the firearms.)
--
I look back with the greatest pleasure to the kindness and hospitality
I met with in Yorkshire, where I spent some of the happiest years of
my life. --- Sabine Baring-Gould
Tony Cooper
2017-05-16 14:37:01 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink
What does "reach for the green ink" mean? Is "green ink" Indian for "blue pencil"?
Green ink is stereotypically (in BrE, at least) used by nutty and/or
irate correspondents.
None of these realities will prevent the green-ink brigade from
continuing to write to me, with copies of course to the Queen and
Tony Blair.
<https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/jul/06/society.health>
That's really all I've got to say and I'm only on page 41. So the
next 200 - sorry, 199, attention to pedantry is all-important -
will be filled with anecdotes and cuttings to get the Green Ink
Brigade spluttering over their cornflakes.
<https://www.theguardian.com/books/2006/nov/14/digestedread.johncrace>
Part of my job is to deal with people who can't or won't pay their
debts. I hear plenty of genuine hard-luck stories from the former,
and I get plenty of green ink from the latter.
<https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/18/freeman-land-strategy-bullet-debt>
("Freeman on the land" is a British nutty thing a bit like "posse
comitatus" but without the firearms.)
I've seen several quotes of this nature and knew what "green ink"
meant. The best part of those quotes from the Green Ink Brigade is
the signature lines, though.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-16 14:52:55 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink
What does "reach for the green ink" mean? Is "green ink" Indian for "blue pencil"?
Green ink is stereotypically (in BrE, at least) used by nutty and/or
irate correspondents.
Curious. Green ink seems hard to find here -- it would be in art supplies
stores but not stationery stores like Staples or Office Max/Depot.
Post by Adam Funk
None of these realities will prevent the green-ink brigade from
continuing to write to me, with copies of course to the Queen and
Tony Blair.
<https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2004/jul/06/society.health>
That's really all I've got to say and I'm only on page 41. So the
next 200 - sorry, 199, attention to pedantry is all-important -
will be filled with anecdotes and cuttings to get the Green Ink
Brigade spluttering over their cornflakes.
<https://www.theguardian.com/books/2006/nov/14/digestedread.johncrace>
Part of my job is to deal with people who can't or won't pay their
debts. I hear plenty of genuine hard-luck stories from the former,
and I get plenty of green ink from the latter.
<https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/18/freeman-land-strategy-bullet-debt>
("Freeman on the land" is a British nutty thing a bit like "posse
comitatus" but without the firearms.)
Tony Cooper
2017-05-16 15:01:02 UTC
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On Tue, 16 May 2017 07:52:55 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink
What does "reach for the green ink" mean? Is "green ink" Indian for "blue pencil"?
Green ink is stereotypically (in BrE, at least) used by nutty and/or
irate correspondents.
Curious. Green ink seems hard to find here -- it would be in art supplies
stores but not stationery stores like Staples or Office Max/Depot.
I assume that you are thinking of bottled ink for fountain pens or
cartridge ink for fountain pens. There's probably not much call for
that type of ink anymore.

However, green ink roller ball, felt tip, and ballpoint pens are
readily available at Staples and other office supply stores. Even
refills for the pricey Montblanc ballpoints are available in green.

The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter Moylan
2017-05-16 17:51:40 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.

Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
David Kleinecke
2017-05-16 18:55:15 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I'm guessing "capsicum" are what we call "bell peppers" in the
good old Us of A. Yellow peppers seem to be interchangeable with
red peppers. Personally I use peppers with more kick and don't
know a whole lot about bell peppers.
Dr. HotSalt
2017-05-16 19:51:15 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I'm guessing "capsicum" are what we call "bell peppers" in the
good old Us of A.
Seems so to me as well.

I've always called them "bell peppers", and so have my family.

Maybe it's regional?
Post by David Kleinecke
Yellow peppers seem to be interchangeable with
red peppers. Personally I use peppers with more kick and don't
know a whole lot about bell peppers.
Bell peppers are generally less hot and more sweet (for peppers, that is). The different colors allegedly have a slightly different balance of bitter and sweet, but the same low level of heat.

Yes, the red and yellow are pretty much interchangeable taste-wise, but yellow looks funny in e.g. spaghetti sauces where red looks better.

I like to use the yellow ones in meatloaf.

Unless the orange ones are available, that is.


Dr. HotSalt
Mark Brader
2017-05-16 21:20:49 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green.
You're behind the times. Our local supermarket used to do that, but
then they switched to "rainbow" packs containing one red, one orange,
and one yellow. They also sell individual peppers of all four colors,
though.
--
Mark Brader "...out of the dark coffee-stained mugs of
Toronto insane programmers throughout the world..."
***@vex.net -- Liam Quin
"Or their bosses..." -- Steve Summit
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-05-17 07:36:32 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
--
athel
Quinn C
2017-05-17 21:43:15 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were completely
inverted. I stocked up on red ones.

Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.

I don't see other colors (white, purple) often.
--
...an explanatory principle - like "gravity" or "instinct" -
really explains nothing. It’s a sort of conventional agreement
between scientists to stop trying to explain things at a
certain point. -- Gregory Bateson
Robert Bannister
2017-05-18 00:01:36 UTC
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Post by Quinn C
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were completely
inverted. I stocked up on red ones.
Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.
I think the colour does matter. The red ones are sweeter, but the green
ones have a stronger flavour. It depends what you want.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Adam Funk
2017-05-18 08:17:10 UTC
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Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Quinn C
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were completely
inverted. I stocked up on red ones.
Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.
I think the colour does matter. The red ones are sweeter, but the green
ones have a stronger flavour. It depends what you want.
Green peppers are just the unripe forms of non-green peppers. That's
why they're more bitter, less sweet, & cheaper.
--
I understand about indecision
But I don't care if I get behind
People living in competition
All I want is to have my peace of mind ---Boston
Ross
2017-05-18 11:48:33 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Quinn C
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were completely
inverted. I stocked up on red ones.
Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.
I think the colour does matter. The red ones are sweeter, but the green
ones have a stronger flavour. It depends what you want.
Green peppers are just the unripe forms of non-green peppers. That's
why they're more bitter, less sweet, & cheaper.
Here I find that while there are fluctuations in availability, there
is rarely a difference in price among the colours of capsicum. We
buy the green and the red, because we like both flavours, but price
is not a consideration.
Peter Moylan
2017-05-18 16:03:04 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Quinn C
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were completely
inverted. I stocked up on red ones.
Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.
I think the colour does matter. The red ones are sweeter, but the green
ones have a stronger flavour. It depends what you want.
Green peppers are just the unripe forms of non-green peppers. That's
why they're more bitter, less sweet, & cheaper.
Yes; and the yellow ones are overripe, therefore bland, therefore not
worth buying. But the marketing people have decided that they are
exotic, and worth a higher price.

I don't think I've ever seen a yellow capsicum sold separately. They are
sold only in the "traffic light" packs, because the marketing people
realise that they would be otherwise unsaleable..
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Cheryl
2017-05-18 16:06:21 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Quinn C
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were completely
inverted. I stocked up on red ones.
Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.
I think the colour does matter. The red ones are sweeter, but the green
ones have a stronger flavour. It depends what you want.
Green peppers are just the unripe forms of non-green peppers. That's
why they're more bitter, less sweet, & cheaper.
Yes; and the yellow ones are overripe, therefore bland, therefore not
worth buying. But the marketing people have decided that they are
exotic, and worth a higher price.
I don't think I've ever seen a yellow capsicum sold separately. They are
sold only in the "traffic light" packs, because the marketing people
realise that they would be otherwise unsaleable..
Yellow peppers are available both individually and in packages here, so
someone must buy them. I don't generally buy sweet peppers of any colour
because they don't seem to have much taste. I bought some a while ago
for a new recipe I wanted to try, but wasn't much impressed by the
result. It looked pretty, with all the different coloured peppers, but
the taste wasn't great. Not bad, but not great.
--
Cheryl
HVS
2017-05-18 16:11:37 UTC
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-snip-
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
I don't think I've ever seen a yellow capsicum sold separately. They
are sold only in the "traffic light" packs, because the marketing
people realise that they would be otherwise unsaleable..
Yellow peppers are available both individually and in packages here, so
someone must buy them. I don't generally buy sweet peppers of any colour
because they don't seem to have much taste. I bought some a while ago
for a new recipe I wanted to try, but wasn't much impressed by the
result. It looked pretty, with all the different coloured peppers, but
the taste wasn't great. Not bad, but not great.
I agree, but I don't think they're added to dishes for their flavour; it's
more a case of adding texture and visual interest -- rather like putting
lettuce in a sandwich.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
Jerry Friedman
2017-05-18 22:39:28 UTC
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...
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Quinn C
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were completely
inverted. I stocked up on red ones.
Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.
I think the colour does matter. The red ones are sweeter, but the green
ones have a stronger flavour. It depends what you want.
Green peppers are just the unripe forms of non-green peppers. That's
why they're more bitter, less sweet, & cheaper.
Yes; and the yellow ones are overripe, therefore bland, therefore not
worth buying. But the marketing people have decided that they are
exotic, and worth a higher price.
I don't think I've ever seen a yellow capsicum sold separately. They are
sold only in the "traffic light" packs, because the marketing people
realise that they would be otherwise unsaleable..
Yellow peppers are available both individually and in packages here, so
someone must buy them.
True where I live too.
Post by Cheryl
I don't generally buy sweet peppers of any colour
because they don't seem to have much taste. I bought some a while ago
for a new recipe I wanted to try, but wasn't much impressed by the
result. It looked pretty, with all the different coloured peppers, but
the taste wasn't great. Not bad, but not great.
For the ripe ones, I feel that redder color gives stronger flavor.
That also seems to be true for tomatoes and beets.

If you grow bell peppers yourself and let them ripen red, they're
ambrosial, either raw or sautéed in olive oil with garlic. It was said
that you couldn't get them in stores because they didn't ship well. For
a few years when I was in grad school in Illinois, I /could/ get them
like that. Then a thick-walled, square, low-flavor red bell pepper
appeared. Good-bye ambrosia.

(It's conceivable that my sense of smell got less sensitive. Good-bye
ambrosia either way.)

(GG's autocorrect put the accent into "sautéed". That's new, I
think. Can I add it to my resume? Nope.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Moylan
2017-05-19 02:25:31 UTC
Reply
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Post by Jerry Friedman
If you grow bell peppers yourself and let them ripen red, they're
ambrosial, either raw or sautéed in olive oil with garlic.
Something similar can be said of many vegetables. The ones that you grow
yourself taste better because they're fresh.

I used to believe that a lettuce was no good unless it was eaten within
twenty minutes of picking. After that it goes from delicious to bland.
These days my taste buds aren't good enough to notice the distinction.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
CDB
2017-05-19 14:33:43 UTC
Reply
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On 5/18/2017 6:39 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:

[package deal on supermarket peppers]
Post by Jerry Friedman
If you grow bell peppers yourself and let them ripen red, they're
ambrosial, either raw or sautéed in olive oil with garlic. It was
said that you couldn't get them in stores because they didn't ship
well. For a few years when I was in grad school in Illinois, I
/could/ get them like that. Then a thick-walled, square, low-flavor
red bell pepper appeared. Good-bye ambrosia.
Maybe Ron would like those better. I think he's the RR who has said he
loathes the taste.
Post by Jerry Friedman
(It's conceivable that my sense of smell got less sensitive. Good-bye
ambrosia either way.)
(GG's autocorrect put the accent into "sautéed". That's new, I
think. Can I add it to my resume? Nope.)
Did you try "resumé"? Unaccented "resume" is a word itself.
Jerry Friedman
2017-05-19 15:14:30 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by CDB
[package deal on supermarket peppers]
Post by Jerry Friedman
If you grow bell peppers yourself and let them ripen red, they're
ambrosial, either raw or sautéed in olive oil with garlic. It was
said that you couldn't get them in stores because they didn't ship
well. For a few years when I was in grad school in Illinois, I
/could/ get them like that. Then a thick-walled, square, low-flavor
red bell pepper appeared. Good-bye ambrosia.
Maybe Ron would like those better. I think he's the RR who has said he
loathes the taste.
I think he is, though part of his object seems to be that green bell
peppers aren't green chiles.
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
(It's conceivable that my sense of smell got less sensitive. Good-bye
ambrosia either way.)
(GG's autocorrect put the accent into "sautéed". That's new, I
think. Can I add it to my resume? Nope.)
Did you try "resumé"? Unaccented "resume" is a word itself.
Will it add the accent to my resumé? Nope. Something, maybe
Mom's browser, is flagging it as misspelled, though.
--
Jerry Friedman
CDB
2017-05-19 19:14:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by CDB
[package deal on supermarket peppers]
Post by Jerry Friedman
If you grow bell peppers yourself and let them ripen red,
they're ambrosial, either raw or sautéed in olive oil with
garlic. It was said that you couldn't get them in stores because
they didn't ship well. For a few years when I was in grad school
in Illinois, I /could/ get them like that. Then a thick-walled,
square, low-flavor red bell pepper appeared. Good-bye ambrosia.
There are sometimes longer, narrower red bell peppers, that appear to
have thinner flesh, for sale at the local Farmboy. I will get a couple
next time I see them there, and report back. It might take a while.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by CDB
Maybe Ron would like those better. I think he's the RR who has
said he loathes the taste.
I think he is, though part of his object seems to be that green bell
peppers aren't green chiles.
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
(It's conceivable that my sense of smell got less sensitive.
Good-bye ambrosia either way.)
(GG's autocorrect put the accent into "sautéed". That's new, I
think. Can I add it to my resume? Nope.)
Did you try "resumé"? Unaccented "resume" is a word itself.
Will it add the accent to my resumé? Nope. Something, maybe Mom's
browser, is flagging it as misspelled, though.
It would have been better to light a little candle.
Quinn C
2017-05-19 21:59:14 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by CDB
Post by CDB
[package deal on supermarket peppers]
Post by Jerry Friedman
If you grow bell peppers yourself and let them ripen red,
they're ambrosial, either raw or sautéed in olive oil with
garlic. It was said that you couldn't get them in stores because
they didn't ship well. For a few years when I was in grad school
in Illinois, I /could/ get them like that. Then a thick-walled,
square, low-flavor red bell pepper appeared. Good-bye ambrosia.
There are sometimes longer, narrower red bell peppers, that appear to
have thinner flesh, for sale at the local Farmboy. I will get a couple
next time I see them there, and report back. It might take a while.
The cultivars usually sold in Japan are smaller, less rounded,
with thinner flesh. They are almost exclusively sold green, and
are more bitter than the ones usually sold in the West. Japanese
children often name it if you ask for a food they hate.

<Loading Image...>
--
...an explanatory principle - like "gravity" or "instinct" -
really explains nothing. It’s a sort of conventional agreement
between scientists to stop trying to explain things at a
certain point. -- Gregory Bateson
Robert Bannister
2017-05-19 23:46:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by CDB
[package deal on supermarket peppers]
Post by Jerry Friedman
If you grow bell peppers yourself and let them ripen red, they're
ambrosial, either raw or sautéed in olive oil with garlic. It was
said that you couldn't get them in stores because they didn't ship
well. For a few years when I was in grad school in Illinois, I
/could/ get them like that. Then a thick-walled, square, low-flavor
red bell pepper appeared. Good-bye ambrosia.
Maybe Ron would like those better. I think he's the RR who has said he
loathes the taste.
I think he is, though part of his object seems to be that green bell
peppers aren't green chiles.
When I was younger, I used to think red chillies were hotter than green
ones - obviously, I thought, red is hotter than green. But in most
cases, it's the green ones that are hotter. The red ones are sweeter.
(Different when they're dried).
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Quinn C
2017-05-19 16:46:35 UTC
Reply
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Post by Jerry Friedman
(GG's autocorrect put the accent into "sautéed". That's new, I
think. Can I add it to my resume? Nope.)
Are you sure this is GG autocorrect and not your browser's?
--
Woman is a pair of ovaries with a human being attached, whereas
man is a human being furnished with a pair of testes.
-- Rudolf Virchow
Jerry Friedman
2017-05-22 19:05:30 UTC
Reply
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Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
(GG's autocorrect put the accent into "sautéed". That's new, I
think. Can I add it to my resume? Nope.)
Are you sure this is GG autocorrect and not your browser's?
Sauteed.

Good point. It didn't happen now that I'm on my computer at work, not
my mother's computer.
--
Jerry Friedman
Richard Bollard
2017-05-19 00:00:14 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Quinn C
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were completely
inverted. I stocked up on red ones.
Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.
I think the colour does matter. The red ones are sweeter, but the green
ones have a stronger flavour. It depends what you want.
Green peppers are just the unripe forms of non-green peppers. That's
why they're more bitter, less sweet, & cheaper.
Yes; and the yellow ones are overripe, therefore bland, therefore not
worth buying. But the marketing people have decided that they are
exotic, and worth a higher price.
I don't think I've ever seen a yellow capsicum sold separately. They are
sold only in the "traffic light" packs, because the marketing people
realise that they would be otherwise unsaleable..
Yellow peppers are available both individually and in packages here, so
someone must buy them. I don't generally buy sweet peppers of any colour
because they don't seem to have much taste. I bought some a while ago
for a new recipe I wanted to try, but wasn't much impressed by the
result. It looked pretty, with all the different coloured peppers, but
the taste wasn't great. Not bad, but not great.
They can be nice in salad.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia

To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
Katy Edgcombe
2017-05-19 10:11:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Richard Bollard
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Quinn C
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were completely
inverted. I stocked up on red ones.
Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.
I think the colour does matter. The red ones are sweeter, but the green
ones have a stronger flavour. It depends what you want.
Green peppers are just the unripe forms of non-green peppers. That's
why they're more bitter, less sweet, & cheaper.
Yes; and the yellow ones are overripe, therefore bland, therefore not
worth buying. But the marketing people have decided that they are
exotic, and worth a higher price.
I don't think I've ever seen a yellow capsicum sold separately. They are
sold only in the "traffic light" packs, because the marketing people
realise that they would be otherwise unsaleable..
Yellow peppers are available both individually and in packages here, so
someone must buy them. I don't generally buy sweet peppers of any colour
because they don't seem to have much taste. I bought some a while ago
for a new recipe I wanted to try, but wasn't much impressed by the
result. It looked pretty, with all the different coloured peppers, but
the taste wasn't great. Not bad, but not great.
They can be nice in salad.
My husband was specifically recommended (by a bone fide doctor) to eat
yellow peppers as a good source of something (beta carotene???) that
would be helpful to his eyesight. I have no idea whether this is an old
wives' tale.

Katy
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-05-19 10:52:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Katy Edgcombe
Post by Richard Bollard
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Quinn C
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were completely
inverted. I stocked up on red ones.
Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.
I think the colour does matter. The red ones are sweeter, but the green
ones have a stronger flavour. It depends what you want.
Green peppers are just the unripe forms of non-green peppers. That's
why they're more bitter, less sweet, & cheaper.
Yes; and the yellow ones are overripe, therefore bland, therefore not
worth buying. But the marketing people have decided that they are
exotic, and worth a higher price.
I don't think I've ever seen a yellow capsicum sold separately. They are
sold only in the "traffic light" packs, because the marketing people
realise that they would be otherwise unsaleable..
Yellow peppers are available both individually and in packages here, so
someone must buy them. I don't generally buy sweet peppers of any colour
because they don't seem to have much taste. I bought some a while ago
for a new recipe I wanted to try, but wasn't much impressed by the
result. It looked pretty, with all the different coloured peppers, but
the taste wasn't great. Not bad, but not great.
They can be nice in salad.
My husband was specifically recommended (by a bone fide doctor) to eat
yellow peppers as a good source of something (beta carotene???) that
would be helpful to his eyesight. I have no idea whether this is an old
wives' tale.
Katy
There may be some truth in it.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/252758.php

The human body converts beta-carotene into vitamin A (retinol) -
beta-carotene is a precursor of vitamin A. We need vitamin A for
healthy skin and mucus membranes, our immune system, and good eye
health and vision.
....
Vitamin A can be sourced from the food we eat, through
beta-carotene, for example, or in supplement form. The advantage of
dietary beta-carotene is that the body only converts as much as it
needs.

Excess vitamin A is toxic. Toxic vitamin A levels can occur if you
consume too many supplements.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Janet
2017-05-19 12:09:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
[quoted text muted]
yellow peppers as a good source of something (beta carotene???) that
would be helpful to his eyesight. I have no idea whether this is an old
wives' tale.
Katy
There may be some truth in it.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/252758.php
The human body converts beta-carotene into vitamin A (retinol) -
beta-carotene is a precursor of vitamin A. We need vitamin A for
healthy skin and mucus membranes, our immune system, and good eye
health and vision.
....
Vitamin A can be sourced from the food we eat, through
beta-carotene, for example, or in supplement form. The advantage of
dietary beta-carotene is that the body only converts as much as it
needs.
Excess vitamin A is toxic. Toxic vitamin A levels can occur if you
consume too many supplements.
http://www.allaboutvision.com/nutrition/vitamin_a.htm

"
Vitamin A obtained from colorful fruits and vegetables is in the
form of "provitamin A" carotenoids, which are converted to retinol by
the body after the food is ingested. Good food sources of provitamin A
carotenoids include carrots, sweet potatoes, spinach, kale and
cantaloupes.

Beta-carotene is one of the most prevalent and effective provitamin A
carotenoids.
Eye Benefits Of Vitamin A And Beta-Carotene

Because vitamin A helps protect the surface of the eye (cornea), it is
essential for good vision.

Studies show vitamin A eye drops are effective for the treatment of dry
eyes. In fact, one study found that over-the-counter lubricating eye
drops containing vitamin A were as effective for the treatment of dry
eye syndrome as more expensive prescription eye drops formulated for dry
eye relief.

Vitamin A eye drops also have been shown effective for the treatment of
a specific type of eye inflammation called superior limbic
keratoconjunctivitis.

Vitamin A, at least when in combination with other antioxidant vitamins,
also appears to play a role in decreasing the risk of vision loss from
macular degeneration (AMD). In the landmark Age-Related Eye Disease
Study (AREDS) sponsored by the National Eye Institute, people with mild
or moderate AMD who took a daily multivitamin that included vitamin A
(as beta-carotene), vitamin C, vitamin E, zinc and copper had a 25
percent reduced risk of advanced AMD during a six-year period."


Janet
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-05-19 12:27:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
[ ... ]
Excess vitamin A is toxic. Toxic vitamin A levels can occur if you
consume too many supplements.
Yes; very important. Vitamin A has a therapeutic index of about 10,
after digitalis (2), one of the lowest values for any well known
substance. People have died from excess vitamin A -- most famously
Xavier Mertz in the Antarctic (though the theory about his cause of
death is disputed). About 50 years ago there was a case in the UK: his
doctor knew about the vitamin A supplements, but thought the amounts
were just on the safe side; what he didn't know was that his patient
was also consuming large quantities of carrot juice.
--
athel
Adam Funk
2017-05-22 13:43:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
[ ... ]
Excess vitamin A is toxic. Toxic vitamin A levels can occur if you
consume too many supplements.
Yes; very important. Vitamin A has a therapeutic index of about 10,
after digitalis (2), one of the lowest values for any well known
substance. People have died from excess vitamin A -- most famously
Wow, I didn't know the TI was that low for vitamin A. Just out of
curiosity, over what time period are the toxic & effective doses
worked out for something like that?
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Xavier Mertz in the Antarctic (though the theory about his cause of
death is disputed). About 50 years ago there was a case in the UK: his
doctor knew about the vitamin A supplements, but thought the amounts
were just on the safe side; what he didn't know was that his patient
was also consuming large quantities of carrot juice.
I've heard that polar bear liver is quite dangerous for the same
reason. (Yes, I know that's the arctic rather than the antarctic.)
--
Most Americans are too civilized to hang skulls from baskets, having
been headhunters, of course, only as recently as Vietnam.
--- Kinky Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-05-22 16:03:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
[ ... ]
Excess vitamin A is toxic. Toxic vitamin A levels can occur if you
consume too many supplements.
Yes; very important. Vitamin A has a therapeutic index of about 10,
after digitalis (2), one of the lowest values for any well known
substance. People have died from excess vitamin A -- most famously
Wow, I didn't know the TI was that low for vitamin A. Just out of
curiosity, over what time period are the toxic & effective doses
worked out for something like that?
For vitamin A I expect they use rats (but I don't know). For digitalis
they pretty much have to use humans, but they do it _very_ carefully,
increasing the dose until it works, and then not increasing it any
more. Nowadays I expect they use the pure drug, but it days gone by
when they used actual foxgloves it must have been much more difficult,
as one foxglove doesn't contain as much as another. I don't know how
they did it.

I'm not sre this really answers your question ("what time period") but
the full answer is that I don't know.
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Xavier Mertz in the Antarctic (though the theory about his cause of
death is disputed). About 50 years ago there was a case in the UK: his
doctor knew about the vitamin A supplements, but thought the amounts
were just on the safe side; what he didn't know was that his patient
was also consuming large quantities of carrot juice.
I've heard that polar bear liver is quite dangerous for the same
reason. (Yes, I know that's the arctic rather than the antarctic.)
That's part of the problem with the story of Xavier Mertz. He's now
believed to have eaten dog livers when he and his companions were
starving. It certainly wasn't polar-bear liver. On the other hand there
was a Dutch exploration of Novaya Zemlya in the 18th century during
which many men became ill (but didn't die) after eating polar-bear
liver.
--
athel
Adam Funk
2017-05-23 12:00:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
[ ... ]
Excess vitamin A is toxic. Toxic vitamin A levels can occur if you
consume too many supplements.
Yes; very important. Vitamin A has a therapeutic index of about 10,
after digitalis (2), one of the lowest values for any well known
substance. People have died from excess vitamin A -- most famously
Wow, I didn't know the TI was that low for vitamin A. Just out of
curiosity, over what time period are the toxic & effective doses
worked out for something like that?
For vitamin A I expect they use rats (but I don't know). For digitalis
they pretty much have to use humans, but they do it _very_ carefully,
increasing the dose until it works, and then not increasing it any
more. Nowadays I expect they use the pure drug, but it days gone by
when they used actual foxgloves it must have been much more difficult,
as one foxglove doesn't contain as much as another. I don't know how
they did it.
I'm not sre this really answers your question ("what time period") but
the full answer is that I don't know.
OK! I was just wondering because with most nutrients, it seems to be
a kind of average consumption over time that matters for health (e.g.,
if I don't get any vitamin C today but I got some yesterday, I won't
get deficiency problems).
--
A heretic is someone who shares ALMOST all your beliefs.
Kill him. --- Ivan Stang
Snidely
2017-05-25 07:10:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
[ ... ]
Excess vitamin A is toxic. Toxic vitamin A levels can occur if you
consume too many supplements.
Yes; very important. Vitamin A has a therapeutic index of about 10,
after digitalis (2), one of the lowest values for any well known
substance. People have died from excess vitamin A -- most famously
Wow, I didn't know the TI was that low for vitamin A. Just out of
curiosity, over what time period are the toxic & effective doses
worked out for something like that?
For vitamin A I expect they use rats (but I don't know). For digitalis they
pretty much have to use humans, but they do it _very_ carefully, increasing
the dose until it works, and then not increasing it any more. Nowadays I
expect they use the pure drug, but it days gone by when they used actual
foxgloves it must have been much more difficult, as one foxglove doesn't
contain as much as another. I don't know how they did it.
I'm not sre this really answers your question ("what time period") but the
full answer is that I don't know.
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Xavier Mertz in the Antarctic (though the theory about his cause of
death is disputed). About 50 years ago there was a case in the UK: his
doctor knew about the vitamin A supplements, but thought the amounts
were just on the safe side; what he didn't know was that his patient
was also consuming large quantities of carrot juice.
I've heard that polar bear liver is quite dangerous for the same
reason. (Yes, I know that's the arctic rather than the antarctic.)
That's part of the problem with the story of Xavier Mertz. He's now believed
to have eaten dog livers when he and his companions were starving. It
certainly wasn't polar-bear liver. On the other hand there was a Dutch
exploration of Novaya Zemlya in the 18th century during which many men became
ill (but didn't die) after eating polar-bear liver.
Retinol acts like a detergent, which is bad for oil-based membranes
like cell walls, which in the skull causes a build-up of fluids on the
brain. And it triggers cell suicide in skin cells. An ounce of polar
bear liver can kill, although Barent's men escaped with only extreme
nausea and peeling skin.

Hudson reached America mainly because his crew forced him to sail west
instead of continuing around Norway to reach Russia. Much of the crew
was Dutch, and probably had heard enough of skinlessness.

_The Violinist's Thumb_, Sam Kean, Little Brown and Co: Chapter 6, /The
Survivors, the Livers/.

/dps
--
Who, me? And what lacuna?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-05-25 08:56:31 UTC
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Post by Snidely
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
[ ... ]
Excess vitamin A is toxic. Toxic vitamin A levels can occur if you
consume too many supplements.
Yes; very important. Vitamin A has a therapeutic index of about 10,
after digitalis (2), one of the lowest values for any well known
substance. People have died from excess vitamin A -- most famously
Wow, I didn't know the TI was that low for vitamin A. Just out of
curiosity, over what time period are the toxic & effective doses
worked out for something like that?
For vitamin A I expect they use rats (but I don't know). For digitalis
they pretty much have to use humans, but they do it _very_ carefully,
increasing the dose until it works, and then not increasing it any
more. Nowadays I expect they use the pure drug, but it days gone by
when they used actual foxgloves it must have been much more difficult,
as one foxglove doesn't contain as much as another. I don't know how
they did it.
I'm not sre this really answers your question ("what time period") but
the full answer is that I don't know.
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Xavier Mertz in the Antarctic (though the theory about his cause of
death is disputed). About 50 years ago there was a case in the UK: his
doctor knew about the vitamin A supplements, but thought the amounts
were just on the safe side; what he didn't know was that his patient
was also consuming large quantities of carrot juice.
I've heard that polar bear liver is quite dangerous for the same
reason. (Yes, I know that's the arctic rather than the antarctic.)
That's part of the problem with the story of Xavier Mertz. He's now
believed to have eaten dog livers when he and his companions were
starving. It certainly wasn't polar-bear liver. On the other hand there
was a Dutch exploration of Novaya Zemlya in the 18th century during
which many men became ill (but didn't die) after eating polar-bear
liver.
Retinol acts like a detergent, which is bad for oil-based membranes
like cell walls,
Yes, but don't confuse cell membranes with cell walls. Humans, like
other animals, don't have cell walls.
Post by Snidely
which in the skull causes a build-up of fluids on the brain. And it
triggers cell suicide in skin cells. An ounce of polar bear liver can
kill, although Barent's men escaped with only extreme nausea and
peeling skin.
Hudson reached America mainly because his crew forced him to sail west
instead of continuing around Norway to reach Russia. Much of the crew
was Dutch, and probably had heard enough of skinlessness.
_The Violinist's Thumb_, Sam Kean, Little Brown and Co: Chapter 6, /The
Survivors, the Livers/.
/dps
--
athel
Adam Funk
2017-05-25 09:00:02 UTC
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Post by Snidely
That's part of the problem with the story of Xavier Mertz. He's now believed
to have eaten dog livers when he and his companions were starving. It
certainly wasn't polar-bear liver. On the other hand there was a Dutch
exploration of Novaya Zemlya in the 18th century during which many men became
ill (but didn't die) after eating polar-bear liver.
Retinol acts like a detergent, which is bad for oil-based membranes
like cell walls, which in the skull causes a build-up of fluids on the
brain. And it triggers cell suicide in skin cells. An ounce of polar
bear liver can kill, although Barent's men escaped with only extreme
nausea and peeling skin.
Does the detergent effect mean the kid in _A Christmas Story_ was
right about the dangers of having his mouth washed out with soap?
--
When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him
whose? --- Don Marquis
Snidely
2017-05-25 07:27:32 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
[ ... ]
Excess vitamin A is toxic. Toxic vitamin A levels can occur if you
consume too many supplements.
Yes; very important. Vitamin A has a therapeutic index of about 10,
after digitalis (2), one of the lowest values for any well known
substance. People have died from excess vitamin A -- most famously
Wow, I didn't know the TI was that low for vitamin A. Just out of
curiosity, over what time period are the toxic & effective doses
worked out for something like that?
For vitamin A I expect they use rats (but I don't know). For digitalis they
pretty much have to use humans, but they do it _very_ carefully, increasing
the dose until it works, and then not increasing it any more. Nowadays I
expect they use the pure drug, but it days gone by when they used actual
foxgloves it must have been much more difficult, as one foxglove doesn't
contain as much as another. I don't know how they did it.
I'm not sre this really answers your question ("what time period") but the
full answer is that I don't know.
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Xavier Mertz in the Antarctic (though the theory about his cause of
death is disputed). About 50 years ago there was a case in the UK: his
doctor knew about the vitamin A supplements, but thought the amounts
were just on the safe side; what he didn't know was that his patient
was also consuming large quantities of carrot juice.
I've heard that polar bear liver is quite dangerous for the same
reason. (Yes, I know that's the arctic rather than the antarctic.)
That's part of the problem with the story of Xavier Mertz. He's now believed
to have eaten dog livers when he and his companions were starving. It
certainly wasn't polar-bear liver.
If it was huskies, then they're on the list of high-A liver livers,
along with seals (the reason polar bears have so much),
reindeer,sharks, swordfish, and foxes.

It seems it was huskies, and Mawson wasn't much better off.
<URL:http://www.samkean.com/extras/vt-notes.html#chapter6>
(an account of Mertz and Mawson that didn't make it into _The
Violinist's Thumb_, cited in my other reply)

(Ninnis died before the food ran out ... from not skiing, it seems.)
On the other hand there was a Dutch
exploration of Novaya Zemlya in the 18th century during which many men became
ill (but didn't die) after eating polar-bear liver.
That was the lucky crew.

Exactly why Barents died isn't known, I guess, but it was June 20, 1597
after the crew was able to leave their island in [early] June.

/dps
--
Ieri, oggi, domani
J. J. Lodder
2017-05-25 10:33:16 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
[ ... ]
Excess vitamin A is toxic. Toxic vitamin A levels can occur if you
consume too many supplements.
Yes; very important. Vitamin A has a therapeutic index of about 10,
after digitalis (2), one of the lowest values for any well known
substance. People have died from excess vitamin A -- most famously
Wow, I didn't know the TI was that low for vitamin A. Just out of
curiosity, over what time period are the toxic & effective doses
worked out for something like that?
For vitamin A I expect they use rats (but I don't know). For digitalis
they pretty much have to use humans, but they do it _very_ carefully,
increasing the dose until it works, and then not increasing it any
more. Nowadays I expect they use the pure drug, but it days gone by
when they used actual foxgloves it must have been much more difficult,
as one foxglove doesn't contain as much as another. I don't know how
they did it.
I'm not sre this really answers your question ("what time period") but
the full answer is that I don't know.
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Xavier Mertz in the Antarctic (though the theory about his cause of
death is disputed). About 50 years ago there was a case in the UK: his
doctor knew about the vitamin A supplements, but thought the amounts
were just on the safe side; what he didn't know was that his patient
was also consuming large quantities of carrot juice.
I've heard that polar bear liver is quite dangerous for the same
reason. (Yes, I know that's the arctic rather than the antarctic.)
That's part of the problem with the story of Xavier Mertz. He's now
believed to have eaten dog livers when he and his companions were
starving. It certainly wasn't polar-bear liver. On the other hand there
was a Dutch exploration of Novaya Zemlya in the 18th century during
which many men became ill (but didn't die) after eating polar-bear
liver.
The Dutch expedition under Barents
attempted to find the north-east passage to India.
They got stuck in the ice and had to survive
the polar winter of 1596-1597 on Novaya Zemlya.
(so 16th century, not 18th)
They discovered that polar foxes are good to eat,
and polar bears, in particular the liver, are bad.

Jan
Cheryl
2017-05-25 10:45:39 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
[ ... ]
Excess vitamin A is toxic. Toxic vitamin A levels can occur if you
consume too many supplements.
Yes; very important. Vitamin A has a therapeutic index of about 10,
after digitalis (2), one of the lowest values for any well known
substance. People have died from excess vitamin A -- most famously
Wow, I didn't know the TI was that low for vitamin A. Just out of
curiosity, over what time period are the toxic & effective doses
worked out for something like that?
For vitamin A I expect they use rats (but I don't know). For digitalis
they pretty much have to use humans, but they do it _very_ carefully,
increasing the dose until it works, and then not increasing it any
more. Nowadays I expect they use the pure drug, but it days gone by
when they used actual foxgloves it must have been much more difficult,
as one foxglove doesn't contain as much as another. I don't know how
they did it.
I'm not sre this really answers your question ("what time period") but
the full answer is that I don't know.
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Xavier Mertz in the Antarctic (though the theory about his cause of
death is disputed). About 50 years ago there was a case in the UK: his
doctor knew about the vitamin A supplements, but thought the amounts
were just on the safe side; what he didn't know was that his patient
was also consuming large quantities of carrot juice.
I've heard that polar bear liver is quite dangerous for the same
reason. (Yes, I know that's the arctic rather than the antarctic.)
That's part of the problem with the story of Xavier Mertz. He's now
believed to have eaten dog livers when he and his companions were
starving. It certainly wasn't polar-bear liver. On the other hand there
was a Dutch exploration of Novaya Zemlya in the 18th century during
which many men became ill (but didn't die) after eating polar-bear
liver.
The Dutch expedition under Barents
attempted to find the north-east passage to India.
They got stuck in the ice and had to survive
the polar winter of 1596-1597 on Novaya Zemlya.
(so 16th century, not 18th)
They discovered that polar foxes are good to eat,
and polar bears, in particular the liver, are bad.
The foxes are more commonly known as Arctic foxes, but I see from google
that 'polar fox' appears to be an accepted alternative. I didn't know
that before.

I haven't heard anything about their suitability for eating, although I
suppose in that kind of harsh climate people eat what they can get -
except, of course, polar bear livers, if they're smart and well-informed.

They sometimes get down on the ice from Labrador to Newfoundland, and
are a known carrier of rabies, so they are sometimes in the news here.

I mean, the foxes. Polar bears sometimes come south too, but I don't
recall anyone expressing concern about their pets getting rabies from
polar bears. Getting eaten by them, yes. Having themselves or a family
member eaten by one, sure. But not rabies, and surely, being mammals,
polar bears must be susceptible to it.

Google has the answer (sort of). Only one polar bear has ever been found
to have rabies, and no one seems to know why rabies is so rare among
polar bears.
--
Cheryl
Adam Funk
2017-05-19 12:33:22 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Katy Edgcombe
My husband was specifically recommended (by a bone fide doctor) to eat
yellow peppers as a good source of something (beta carotene???) that
would be helpful to his eyesight. I have no idea whether this is an old
wives' tale.
There may be some truth in it.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/252758.php
The human body converts beta-carotene into vitamin A (retinol) -
beta-carotene is a precursor of vitamin A. We need vitamin A for
healthy skin and mucus membranes, our immune system, and good eye
health and vision.
....
Vitamin A can be sourced from the food we eat, through
beta-carotene, for example, or in supplement form. The advantage of
dietary beta-carotene is that the body only converts as much as it
needs.
Excess vitamin A is toxic. Toxic vitamin A levels can occur if you
consume too many supplements.
Eating extra beta-carotene won't give you superhuman night vision for
spotting enemy planes; radar does that.
--
No sport is less organized than Calvinball!
RH Draney
2017-05-19 12:02:56 UTC
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Post by Katy Edgcombe
My husband was specifically recommended (by a bone fide doctor) to eat
yellow peppers as a good source of something (beta carotene???) that
would be helpful to his eyesight. I have no idea whether this is an old
wives' tale.
I should think the red ones would be even better, being that they're
richer in pro-A....r
CDB
2017-05-18 16:30:05 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Quinn C
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that
contains one-each of several ink colors, and I find this
annoying when the same pen is not available in multiple
units of only black. I have no interest in writing in
green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things
sold in packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want
only if I accept a couple of other things that I don't
want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums
(=AmE some sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which
sort) as "traffic light" packs, containing one red, one
yellow, and one green. I use the green ones for some
recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but nobody
has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother
to buy a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the
yellow ones have the best flavour. In France they're the most
expensive, so presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were
completely inverted. I stocked up on red ones.
Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.
I think the colour does matter. The red ones are sweeter, but the
green ones have a stronger flavour. It depends what you want.
Green peppers are just the unripe forms of non-green peppers.
That's why they're more bitter, less sweet, & cheaper.
Yes; and the yellow ones are overripe, therefore bland, therefore
not worth buying. But the marketing people have decided that they
are exotic, and worth a higher price.
I don't think I've ever seen a yellow capsicum sold separately. They
are sold only in the "traffic light" packs, because the marketing
people realise that they would be otherwise unsaleable..
I buy peppers separately because I like to examine them first, but I
often buy one each of red, yellow, and green to put in a salad, curry,
or soup. They give the dish a cheerful look.
Robert Bannister
2017-05-19 00:10:42 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Quinn C
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were completely
inverted. I stocked up on red ones.
Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.
I think the colour does matter. The red ones are sweeter, but the green
ones have a stronger flavour. It depends what you want.
Green peppers are just the unripe forms of non-green peppers. That's
why they're more bitter, less sweet, & cheaper.
No argument. They taste different and have different uses.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Quinn C
2017-05-18 12:50:22 UTC
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Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Quinn C
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were completely
inverted. I stocked up on red ones.
Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.
I think the colour does matter. The red ones are sweeter, but the green
ones have a stronger flavour. It depends what you want.
Sure they're different, but I'd usually find it ridiculous to
insist on the one you currently don't have at home. I prioritize
not letting go food to waste over such details. Now if you don't
like one color at all, sure, don't buy it.
--
ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS
Robert Bannister
2017-05-19 00:13:09 UTC
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Post by Quinn C
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Quinn C
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
Typically, here, red ones cost more than or the same as yellow
ones, and green ones are the cheapest. So I had to blink a few
times the other day when in one store, the prices were completely
inverted. I stocked up on red ones.
Any color is fine for soups and stews or in sandwiches, so I'm
generally quite fine with the multi-packs.
I think the colour does matter. The red ones are sweeter, but the green
ones have a stronger flavour. It depends what you want.
Sure they're different, but I'd usually find it ridiculous to
insist on the one you currently don't have at home. I prioritize
not letting go food to waste over such details. Now if you don't
like one color at all, sure, don't buy it.
I have no quarrel with that.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Richard Bollard
2017-05-18 23:55:02 UTC
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On Wed, 17 May 2017 09:36:32 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
The above types of pens are often sold in packaging that contains
one-each of several ink colors, and I find this annoying when the same
pen is not available in multiple units of only black. I have no
interest in writing in green, red, or purple.
I share your annoyance. Increasingly, I see many things sold in
packages, so that I can buy the thing that I want only if I accept a
couple of other things that I don't want.
Recently our supermarkets have taken to selling capsicums (=AmE some
sort of peppers, although I've forgotten which sort) as "traffic light"
packs, containing one red, one yellow, and one green. I use the green
ones for some recipes, and the red ones for different recipes, but
nobody has ever managed to explain to me why anyone would bother to buy
a yellow capsicum.
I must be a bit strange (but you knew that), but I find the yellow ones
have the best flavour. In France they're the most expensive, so
presumably other people prefer them as well.
They are the sweetest.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia

To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-16 20:57:17 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 16 May 2017 07:52:55 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink
What does "reach for the green ink" mean? Is "green ink" Indian for "blue pencil"?
Green ink is stereotypically (in BrE, at least) used by nutty and/or
irate correspondents.
Curious. Green ink seems hard to find here -- it would be in art supplies
stores but not stationery stores like Staples or Office Max/Depot.
I assume that you are thinking of bottled ink for fountain pens or
cartridge ink for fountain pens. There's probably not much call for
that type of ink anymore.
Yes, that's why I said "green ink," since that's what was mentioned in what I
was replying to.
Post by Tony Cooper
However, green ink roller ball, felt tip, and ballpoint pens are
readily available at Staples and other office supply stores. Even
refills for the pricey Montblanc ballpoints are available in green.
I didn't say green pens are hard to find here. One has to hunt around a bit,
but one can find them. I once bought a box of a dozen green ballpoints -- and
none of them worked for more than a few pages, if that.
Tony Cooper
2017-05-17 01:14:06 UTC
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On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:57:17 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 16 May 2017 07:52:55 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink
What does "reach for the green ink" mean? Is "green ink" Indian for "blue pencil"?
Green ink is stereotypically (in BrE, at least) used by nutty and/or
irate correspondents.
Curious. Green ink seems hard to find here -- it would be in art supplies
stores but not stationery stores like Staples or Office Max/Depot.
I assume that you are thinking of bottled ink for fountain pens or
cartridge ink for fountain pens. There's probably not much call for
that type of ink anymore.
Yes, that's why I said "green ink," since that's what was mentioned in what I
was replying to.
For those nutty correspondents to write in green, they do not
necessarily have to use a fountain pen. The writing can be in green
ink regardless of the type of pen used.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
However, green ink roller ball, felt tip, and ballpoint pens are
readily available at Staples and other office supply stores. Even
refills for the pricey Montblanc ballpoints are available in green.
I didn't say green pens are hard to find here.
Green pens don't necessarily produce green writing, and pens that
write in green are not necessarily green pens.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
HVS
2017-05-17 07:22:56 UTC
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On Tue, 16 May 2017 21:14:06 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Green pens don't necessarily produce green writing, and pens that
write in green are not necessarily green pens.
Irrespective of their organic credentials, I didn't know swans could
write at all.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years),
indiscriminately mixed
Sam Plusnet
2017-05-17 14:34:39 UTC
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Post by HVS
On Tue, 16 May 2017 21:14:06 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Green pens don't necessarily produce green writing, and pens that
write in green are not necessarily green pens.
Irrespective of their organic credentials, I didn't know swans could
write at all.
They are literate enough to provide a cygneture.
--
Sam Plusnet
John Dunlop
2017-05-18 07:38:20 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by HVS
On Tue, 16 May 2017 21:14:06 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Green pens don't necessarily produce green writing, and pens that
write in green are not necessarily green pens.
Irrespective of their organic credentials, I didn't know swans could
write at all.
They are literate enough to provide a cygneture.
Cobblers!
--
John
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-05-18 11:35:55 UTC
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Post by John Dunlop
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by HVS
On Tue, 16 May 2017 21:14:06 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Green pens don't necessarily produce green writing, and pens that
write in green are not necessarily green pens.
Irrespective of their organic credentials, I didn't know swans could
write at all.
They are literate enough to provide a cygneture.
Cobblers!
Is that your last comment?
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
John Dunlop
2017-05-18 12:29:32 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by John Dunlop
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by HVS
On Tue, 16 May 2017 21:14:06 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Green pens don't necessarily produce green writing, and pens that
write in green are not necessarily green pens.
Irrespective of their organic credentials, I didn't know swans could
write at all.
They are literate enough to provide a cygneture.
Cobblers!
Is that your last comment?
Consider me mute.
--
John
s***@gmail.com
2017-05-18 19:27:28 UTC
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Post by John Dunlop
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by John Dunlop
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by HVS
On Tue, 16 May 2017 21:14:06 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Green pens don't necessarily produce green writing, and pens that
write in green are not necessarily green pens.
Irrespective of their organic credentials, I didn't know swans could
write at all.
They are literate enough to provide a cygneture.
Cobblers!
Is that your last comment?
Consider me mute.
Tongue-tied, too tight laced, or lost your trumpet?

/dps
Adam Funk
2017-05-17 11:57:40 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:57:17 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
However, green ink roller ball, felt tip, and ballpoint pens are
readily available at Staples and other office supply stores. Even
refills for the pricey Montblanc ballpoints are available in green.
I didn't say green pens are hard to find here.
Green pens don't necessarily produce green writing, and pens that
write in green are not necessarily green pens.
If you said "Can I borrow a green pen?" would you expect me to hand
you a pen that is green on the outside or one that writes in green? I
think the more usual interpretation is the latter.
--
A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
A: Top-posting.
Q: What is the most annoying thing on usenet and in e-mail?
Tony Cooper
2017-05-17 14:07:52 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:57:17 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
However, green ink roller ball, felt tip, and ballpoint pens are
readily available at Staples and other office supply stores. Even
refills for the pricey Montblanc ballpoints are available in green.
I didn't say green pens are hard to find here.
Green pens don't necessarily produce green writing, and pens that
write in green are not necessarily green pens.
If you said "Can I borrow a green pen?" would you expect me to hand
you a pen that is green on the outside or one that writes in green? I
think the more usual interpretation is the latter.
If you ask to borrow "a green pen", then - yes - you are asking to
borrow the pen that writes in green. However, if you ask to borrow
"the green pen", you may be asking for a pen that is green but writes
in blue ink. You are asking to borrow a specific pen.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Adam Funk
2017-05-18 08:19:10 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:57:17 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
However, green ink roller ball, felt tip, and ballpoint pens are
readily available at Staples and other office supply stores. Even
refills for the pricey Montblanc ballpoints are available in green.
I didn't say green pens are hard to find here.
Green pens don't necessarily produce green writing, and pens that
write in green are not necessarily green pens.
If you said "Can I borrow a green pen?" would you expect me to hand
you a pen that is green on the outside or one that writes in green? I
think the more usual interpretation is the latter.
If you ask to borrow "a green pen", then - yes - you are asking to
borrow the pen that writes in green. However, if you ask to borrow
"the green pen", you may be asking for a pen that is green but writes
in blue ink.
Maybe, depending on what range of pens I think you have handy.
Post by Tony Cooper
You are asking to borrow a specific pen.
Right.
--
svn ci -m 'come back make, all is forgiven!' build.xml
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-05-18 08:03:58 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:57:17 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
However, green ink roller ball, felt tip, and ballpoint pens are
readily available at Staples and other office supply stores. Even
refills for the pricey Montblanc ballpoints are available in green.
I didn't say green pens are hard to find here.
Green pens don't necessarily produce green writing, and pens that
write in green are not necessarily green pens.
If you said "Can I borrow a green pen?" would you expect me to hand
you a pen that is green on the outside or one that writes in green? I
think the more usual interpretation is the latter.
I should have said this when it was better in context (during the
discussion of the green-ink brigade), but in the days when proofs were
corrected by hand on paper, authors were told (at least in the UK) to
mark their corrections in black or blue, because green was reserved for
the printer's reader, red was reserved for someone else (probably the
sub-editor), and pencil corrections were liable to be overlooked.
Anyway, the important point was that we were explicitly told _not_ to
use green.

I bought a bottle of green ink for some now-forgotten reason when I was
a student, but I don't think I ever used it.
--
athel
Adam Funk
2017-05-18 08:18:15 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:57:17 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
However, green ink roller ball, felt tip, and ballpoint pens are
readily available at Staples and other office supply stores. Even
refills for the pricey Montblanc ballpoints are available in green.
I didn't say green pens are hard to find here.
Green pens don't necessarily produce green writing, and pens that
write in green are not necessarily green pens.
If you said "Can I borrow a green pen?" would you expect me to hand
you a pen that is green on the outside or one that writes in green? I
think the more usual interpretation is the latter.
I should have said this when it was better in context (during the
discussion of the green-ink brigade), but in the days when proofs were
corrected by hand on paper, authors were told (at least in the UK) to
mark their corrections in black or blue, because green was reserved for
the printer's reader, red was reserved for someone else (probably the
sub-editor), and pencil corrections were liable to be overlooked.
Anyway, the important point was that we were explicitly told _not_ to
use green.
Interesting.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I bought a bottle of green ink for some now-forgotten reason when I was
a student, but I don't think I ever used it.
Does it not dry out eventually?
--
The three-martini lunch is the epitome of American efficiency.
Where else can you get an earful, a bellyful and a snootful at
the same time? --- Gerald Ford
Richard Bollard
2017-05-19 00:03:33 UTC
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On Thu, 18 May 2017 10:03:58 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 16 May 2017 13:57:17 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
However, green ink roller ball, felt tip, and ballpoint pens are
readily available at Staples and other office supply stores. Even
refills for the pricey Montblanc ballpoints are available in green.
I didn't say green pens are hard to find here.
Green pens don't necessarily produce green writing, and pens that
write in green are not necessarily green pens.
If you said "Can I borrow a green pen?" would you expect me to hand
you a pen that is green on the outside or one that writes in green? I
think the more usual interpretation is the latter.
I should have said this when it was better in context (during the
discussion of the green-ink brigade), but in the days when proofs were
corrected by hand on paper, authors were told (at least in the UK) to
mark their corrections in black or blue, because green was reserved for
the printer's reader, red was reserved for someone else (probably the
sub-editor), and pencil corrections were liable to be overlooked.
Anyway, the important point was that we were explicitly told _not_ to
use green.
I bought a bottle of green ink for some now-forgotten reason when I was
a student, but I don't think I ever used it.
Auditors also use/d green ink so there was a bit of a taboo on anyone
else using it at work.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia

To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-05-16 16:12:23 UTC
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On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:47:11 -0700 (PDT), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink if they hear a British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old 17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term “fall of
the leaf”.
Post by Dingbat
By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact, American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts newspaper in 1815.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/may/16/ill-gotten-gains-why-americanisms-are-a-boon-for-the-british
That article mentions the lexicographer Susie Dent.
As well as her normal professional work she appears as the resident
lexicographer in all episodes of the TV shows "Countdown" and the comedy
version "8 Out of Ten Cats does Countdown".
In a recent episode of the latter the following was said:

Jimmy Carr (host): Susie, Catherine's first time on the show, any
advice?

Susie: Well this is really exciting for me because I'm not sure I've
ever met anybody who's actually got into the dictionary, and
Catherine did with "Am I bothered?". "Bothered" is in the
dictionary.

The background to this is that "Am I bothered?" meaning "do I care?"/"I
couldn't care less" is a catchphrase of Tate's comedy character the
teenager Lauren Cooper. It is now so well established that she
abbreviates it to "bothered".

Ten years ago during the charity fundraising telethon "Comic Relief"
Catherine Tate as Lauren Cooper went to see the then Prime Minister Tony
Blair. The idea was that she was a teenager doing "work experience" in
the Prime Minister's offices. It was scripted but Blair did a good job
of using Lauren's catchphrases against her.

Lauren Cooper meets Tony Blair | Comic Relief

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-16 21:03:43 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:47:11 -0700 (PDT), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink if they hear a British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old 17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term “fall of
the leaf”.
Post by Dingbat
By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact, American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts newspaper in 1815.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/may/16/ill-gotten-gains-why-americanisms-are-a-boon-for-the-british
That article mentions the lexicographer Susie Dent.
As well as her normal professional work she appears as the resident
lexicographer in all episodes of the TV shows "Countdown" and the comedy
version "8 Out of Ten Cats does Countdown".
"8" is singular?
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jimmy Carr (host): Susie, Catherine's first time on the show, any
advice?
Susie: Well this is really exciting for me because I'm not sure I've
ever met anybody who's actually got into the dictionary, and
Catherine did with "Am I bothered?". "Bothered" is in the
dictionary.
I "got into" the dictionary for "abjad." When an OED clerk wrote to me for
verification, I asked about "abugida"; they weren't doing an entry for it.
I didn't think to ask about "grammatogeny."
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The background to this is that "Am I bothered?" meaning "do I care?"/"I
couldn't care less" is a catchphrase of Tate's comedy character the
teenager Lauren Cooper. It is now so well established that she
abbreviates it to "bothered".
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-05-16 21:42:14 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
On Tue, 16 May 2017 14:03:43 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:47:11 -0700 (PDT), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink if they hear a British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old 17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term “fall
of
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
the leaf”.
Post by Dingbat
By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact, American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts newspaper in 1815.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/may/16/ill-gotten-gains-why-americanisms-are-a-boon-for-the-british
That article mentions the lexicographer Susie Dent.
As well as her normal professional work she appears as the resident
lexicographer in all episodes of the TV shows "Countdown" and the comedy
version "8 Out of Ten Cats does Countdown".
"8" is singular?
First a spelling correction, Ten should be 10.

What "does Countdown" is the TV show "8 Out of 10 Cats".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8_Out_of_10_Cats

8 Out of 10 Cats is a British television comedy panel game.... The
show is hosted by Jimmy Carr and the current team captains are Rob
Beckett and Aisling Bea.

The show is based on statistics and opinion polls, and draws on
polls produced by a variety of organisations and new polls
commissioned for the programme, carried out by Harris Poll. The
title is derived from a well-known advertising tagline for Whiskas
cat food, which claimed that "8 out of 10 cats prefer Whiskas".

8 Out of 10 Cats Does Countdown

Since 2012, crossover episodes between 8 Out of 10 Cats and
Countdown have aired. The show follows the format of Countdown, but
is hosted by Jimmy Carr, with permanent contestants Sean Lock and
Jon Richardson, as well as two other guest contestants.

Countdown is a competition based on words and numbers. The "words" and
"numbers" experts from Countdown, Susie Dent and Rachel Riley, have the
same roles in "8 Out of 10 Cats Does Countdown".

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countdown_(game_show)>
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Jimmy Carr (host): Susie, Catherine's first time on the show, any
advice?
Susie: Well this is really exciting for me because I'm not sure I've
ever met anybody who's actually got into the dictionary, and
Catherine did with "Am I bothered?". "Bothered" is in the
dictionary.
I "got into" the dictionary for "abjad." When an OED clerk wrote to me for
verification, I asked about "abugida"; they weren't doing an entry for it.
I didn't think to ask about "grammatogeny."
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The background to this is that "Am I bothered?" meaning "do I care?"/"I
couldn't care less" is a catchphrase of Tate's comedy character the
teenager Lauren Cooper. It is now so well established that she
abbreviates it to "bothered".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
LFS
2017-05-17 07:49:19 UTC
Reply
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:47:11 -0700 (PDT), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink if they hear a British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old 17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term “fall of
the leaf”.
Post by Dingbat
By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact, American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts newspaper in 1815.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/may/16/ill-gotten-gains-why-americanisms-are-a-boon-for-the-british
That article mentions the lexicographer Susie Dent.
As well as her normal professional work she appears as the resident
lexicographer in all episodes of the TV shows "Countdown" and the comedy
version "8 Out of Ten Cats does Countdown".
Susie has also written the foreword to my son's recent book:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/VIDEOSYNCRATIC-about-life-video-shops-ebook/dp/B06Y1DJ76L/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1495007266&sr=1-1&keywords=videosyncratic
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
LFS
2017-05-17 07:52:10 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:47:11 -0700 (PDT), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink if they hear a
British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is
present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in
the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old
17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term “fall of
the leaf”.
Post by Dingbat
By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact,
American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts
newspaper in 1815.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/may/16/ill-gotten-gains-why-americanisms-are-a-boon-for-the-british
That article mentions the lexicographer Susie Dent.
As well as her normal professional work she appears as the resident
lexicographer in all episodes of the TV shows "Countdown" and the comedy
version "8 Out of Ten Cats does Countdown".
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VIDEOSYNCRATIC-about-life-video-shops-ebook/dp/B06Y1DJ76L/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1495007266&sr=1-1&keywords=videosyncratic
I see that you can read Susie's foreword here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Videosyncratic-Book-About-Video-Shops/dp/0995735603/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1495007266&sr=1-1
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-05-17 09:48:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:47:11 -0700 (PDT), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink if they hear a British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old 17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term “fall
of
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
the leaf”.
Post by Dingbat
By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact, American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts newspaper in 1815.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/may/16/ill-gotten-gains-why-americanisms-are-a-boon-for-the-british
That article mentions the lexicographer Susie Dent.
As well as her normal professional work she appears as the resident
lexicographer in all episodes of the TV shows "Countdown" and the comedy
version "8 Out of Ten Cats does Countdown".
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VIDEOSYNCRATIC-about-life-video-shops-ebook/dp/B06Y1DJ76L/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1495007266&sr=1-1&keywords=videosyncratic
Interesting. I might buy a copy.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-05-17 15:37:49 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
On Wed, 17 May 2017 10:48:02 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:47:11 -0700 (PDT), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink if they hear a British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old 17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term “fall
of
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
the leaf”.
Post by Dingbat
By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact, American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts newspaper in 1815.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/may/16/ill-gotten-gains-why-americanisms-are-a-boon-for-the-british
That article mentions the lexicographer Susie Dent.
As well as her normal professional work she appears as the resident
lexicographer in all episodes of the TV shows "Countdown" and the comedy
version "8 Out of Ten Cats does Countdown".
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VIDEOSYNCRATIC-about-life-video-shops-ebook/dp/B06Y1DJ76L/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1495007266&sr=1-1&keywords=videosyncratic
Interesting. I might buy a copy.
I have now bought it.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
LFS
2017-05-17 15:57:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 17 May 2017 10:48:02 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:47:11 -0700 (PDT), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink if they hear a British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old 17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term “fall
of
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
the leaf”.
Post by Dingbat
By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact, American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts newspaper in 1815.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/may/16/ill-gotten-gains-why-americanisms-are-a-boon-for-the-british
That article mentions the lexicographer Susie Dent.
As well as her normal professional work she appears as the resident
lexicographer in all episodes of the TV shows "Countdown" and the comedy
version "8 Out of Ten Cats does Countdown".
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VIDEOSYNCRATIC-about-life-video-shops-ebook/dp/B06Y1DJ76L/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1495007266&sr=1-1&keywords=videosyncratic
Interesting. I might buy a copy.
I have now bought it.
Brave man. It is full of spelling errors and grammatical infelicities
which I find slightly embarrassing.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
HVS
2017-05-17 16:02:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 17 May 2017 10:48:02 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
-snip-
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
That article mentions the lexicographer Susie Dent.
As well as her normal professional work she appears as the resident
lexicographer in all episodes of the TV shows "Countdown" and the
comedy version "8 Out of Ten Cats does Countdown".
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VIDEOSYNCRATIC-about-life-video-shops-ebook/d
p/B06Y1DJ76L/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1495007266&sr=1-1&keywords
=videosyncratic
Interesting. I might buy a copy.
I have now bought it.
Brave man. It is full of spelling errors and grammatical infelicities
which I find slightly embarrassing.
I believe we're supposed to blame the parents for those sorts of failings,
aren't we? <grin>
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
LFS
2017-05-17 18:18:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HVS
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 17 May 2017 10:48:02 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
-snip-
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
That article mentions the lexicographer Susie Dent.
As well as her normal professional work she appears as the resident
lexicographer in all episodes of the TV shows "Countdown" and the
comedy version "8 Out of Ten Cats does Countdown".
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VIDEOSYNCRATIC-about-life-video-shops-ebook/d
p/B06Y1DJ76L/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1495007266&sr=1-1&keywords
=videosyncratic
Interesting. I might buy a copy.
I have now bought it.
Brave man. It is full of spelling errors and grammatical infelicities
which I find slightly embarrassing.
I believe we're supposed to blame the parents for those sorts of failings,
aren't we? <grin>
That's exactly what he said when I pointed them out...
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-05-17 18:03:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 17 May 2017 10:48:02 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:47:11 -0700 (PDT), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink if they hear a British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old 17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term
“fall
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
of
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
the leaf”.
Post by Dingbat
By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact, American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts newspaper in 1815.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/may/16/ill-gotten-gains-why-americanisms-are-a-boon-for-the-british
That article mentions the lexicographer Susie Dent.
As well as her normal professional work she appears as the resident
lexicographer in all episodes of the TV shows "Countdown" and the comedy
version "8 Out of Ten Cats does Countdown".
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VIDEOSYNCRATIC-about-life-video-shops-ebook/dp/B06Y1DJ76L/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1495007266&sr=1-1&keywords=videosyncratic
Interesting. I might buy a copy.
I have now bought it.
Brave man. It is full of spelling errors and grammatical infelicities
which I find slightly embarrassing.
Oh dear. I thought it was the duty of parents to embarrass their
children, not the other way round.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Jerry Friedman
2017-05-19 13:11:58 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 17 May 2017 10:48:02 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Tue, 16 May 2017 04:47:11 -0700 (PDT), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Lots of people wince and reach for the green ink if they hear a British person speak of death as “passing”. Yet that euphemism is present in Chaucer and Shakespeare. What about “oftentimes”? It’s in the King James Bible. And even “the fall” for autumn is good old 17th-century English, a shortening of the traditional term
“fall
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
of
Post by LFS
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
the leaf”.
Post by Dingbat
By contrast, some phrases that appear echt-British are, in fact, American. A “stiff upper lip” first appeared in a Massachusetts newspaper in 1815.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/shortcuts/2017/may/16/ill-gotten-gains-why-americanisms-are-a-boon-for-the-british
That article mentions the lexicographer Susie Dent.
As well as her normal professional work she appears as the resident
lexicographer in all episodes of the TV shows "Countdown" and the comedy
version "8 Out of Ten Cats does Countdown".
https://www.amazon.co.uk/VIDEOSYNCRATIC-about-life-video-shops-ebook/dp/B06Y1DJ76L/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1495007266&sr=1-1&keywords=videosyncratic
Interesting. I might buy a copy.
I have now bought it.
Brave man. It is full of spelling errors and grammatical infelicities
which I find slightly embarrassing.
Oh dear. I thought it was the duty of parents to embarrass their
children, not the other way round.
In my family it's always been mutual.
--
Jerry Friedman
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