Discussion:
Fearless Leader
(too old to reply)
David Kleinecke
2018-01-12 18:00:03 UTC
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Just now PTD posted on sci.lang:

If you're too stupid to read what you make stupid comments
about, then shut your shithole mouth (as our Fearless Leader
would say).

Fearless Leader is not a compliment. But it pre-dates
Donald Trump. Where did it start? What dictator did it
originally mock?
Mack A. Damia
2018-01-12 18:04:05 UTC
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On Fri, 12 Jan 2018 10:00:03 -0800 (PST), David Kleinecke
Post by David Kleinecke
If you're too stupid to read what you make stupid comments
about, then shut your shithole mouth (as our Fearless Leader
would say).
Fearless Leader is not a compliment. But it pre-dates
Donald Trump. Where did it start? What dictator did it
originally mock?
It might be from the Rocky and Bullwinkle Show.

Yes. Fearless Leader is the dictator of the fictional country
Pottsylvania, and the employer of the inept government agents Boris
Badenov and Natasha Fatale. He could always be found in his
underground hideout, "Central Control."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fearless_Leader
Jerry Friedman
2018-01-12 19:10:33 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
If you're too stupid to read what you make stupid comments
about, then shut your shithole mouth (as our Fearless Leader
would say).
Fearless Leader is not a compliment. But it pre-dates
Donald Trump. Where did it start? What dictator did it
originally mock?
Well, it seems to have started in Scott's /Guy Mannering/ (1815).

"Edward of York—-I will not malign even an enemy—is a bold and fearless
leader..."

The first mocking use I see appears to be from 1950-2.

"Our fearless leader, Barry, was not with the party, for he was busy
in camp consuming his fourteenth trout for breakfast (the day's limit).
But soon we could see him prancing along at his 'arsenic-and-old-lace'
pace, that is, arsenic in the pants."

https://books.google.com/books?id=-xRVAAAAMAAJ&q=%22fearless+leader%22&dq=%22fearless+leader%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiTkLHajtPYAhVCKWMKHf5FBj8Q6AEIPjAE

(which actually shows different snippets about "our fearless leader,
Barry" from the same article in /Trail and Timberline/.)
--
Jerry Friedman
RH Draney
2018-01-12 19:48:24 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by David Kleinecke
Fearless Leader is not a compliment. But it pre-dates
Donald Trump. Where did it start? What dictator did it
originally mock?
Well, it seems to have started in Scott's /Guy Mannering/ (1815).
"Edward of York—-I will not malign even an enemy—is a bold and fearless
leader..."
The first mocking use I see appears to be from 1950-2.
"Our fearless leader, Barry, was not with the party, for he was busy
in camp consuming his fourteenth trout for breakfast (the day's limit).
But soon we could see him prancing along at his 'arsenic-and-old-lace'
pace, that is, arsenic in the pants."
When I was working on our Regional Gathering Committee (as the tech
person, the one who helps invited presenters hook up to projectors and
whatever other audio-visual stuff they ask for), I took to calling the
committee chairman "fearsome leader"...(he was not offended; the guy ran
around the Gathering wearing a badge identifying him as
"Krampus-in-Training")....r
Adam Funk
2018-01-13 11:49:14 UTC
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Post by RH Draney
When I was working on our Regional Gathering Committee (as the tech
person, the one who helps invited presenters hook up to projectors and
whatever other audio-visual stuff they ask for), I took to calling the
committee chairman "fearsome leader"...(he was not offended; the guy ran
around the Gathering wearing a badge identifying him as
"Krampus-in-Training")....r
Do you only get the horns when you pass the training?
--
A heretic is someone who shares ALMOST all your beliefs.
Kill him. --- Ivan Stang
Peter T. Daniels
2018-01-12 20:38:39 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
If you're too stupid to read what you make stupid comments
about, then shut your shithole mouth (as our Fearless Leader
would say).
Fearless Leader is not a compliment. But it pre-dates
Donald Trump. Where did it start? What dictator did it
originally mock?
The unnamed one to whom Boris Badenov and Natasha owed allegiance.

(As I mentioned in the wake of her death last summer, June Foray, who voiced
Natasha, said she had been instructed to _not_ make her specifically Russian
but to use a generalized "Eastern European" accent.)

North Korea has devised similar epithets for its three Leaders, but not yet
exactly that one.
Adam Funk
2018-01-13 11:48:51 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by David Kleinecke
If you're too stupid to read what you make stupid comments
about, then shut your shithole mouth (as our Fearless Leader
would say).
Fearless Leader is not a compliment. But it pre-dates
Donald Trump. Where did it start? What dictator did it
originally mock?
The unnamed one to whom Boris Badenov and Natasha owed allegiance.
Beeg trouble for moose and sqvirrel!
Post by Peter T. Daniels
(As I mentioned in the wake of her death last summer, June Foray, who voiced
Natasha, said she had been instructed to _not_ make her specifically Russian
but to use a generalized "Eastern European" accent.)
Interesting, although I'm not sure how many of the audience would spot
the difference.
--
The human brain, weighing about three pounds, has the computing
power of nearly one billion laptops. The brain has been credited
with notable accomplishments such as the Magna Carta, Special
Relativity, and Hee Haw. [Science Museum of Virginia]
Joy Beeson
2018-01-17 23:50:34 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter T. Daniels
(As I mentioned in the wake of her death last summer, June Foray, who voiced
Natasha, said she had been instructed to _not_ make her specifically Russian
but to use a generalized "Eastern European" accent.)
Interesting, although I'm not sure how many of the audience would spot
the difference.
Even those who did would find that subtle clue completely overwhelmed
by the name "Boris Badinov".
--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
Wayne Brown
2018-01-18 21:55:35 UTC
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Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter T. Daniels
(As I mentioned in the wake of her death last summer, June Foray, who voiced
Natasha, said she had been instructed to _not_ make her specifically Russian
but to use a generalized "Eastern European" accent.)
Interesting, although I'm not sure how many of the audience would spot
the difference.
Even those who did would find that subtle clue completely overwhelmed
by the name "Boris Badinov".
I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."
--
F. Wayne Brown <***@bellsouth.net>

ur sag9-ga ur-tur-še3 ba-an-kur9
"A dog that is played with turns into a puppy." (Sumerian proverb)
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-18 22:07:42 UTC
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Post by Wayne Brown
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter T. Daniels
(As I mentioned in the wake of her death last summer, June Foray, who voiced
Natasha, said she had been instructed to _not_ make her specifically Russian
but to use a generalized "Eastern European" accent.)
Interesting, although I'm not sure how many of the audience would spot
the difference.
Even those who did would find that subtle clue completely overwhelmed
by the name "Boris Badinov".
I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."
Why? It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
confirmed.
Mark Brader
2018-01-18 22:53:44 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
confirmed.
I would have thought the Wikipedia part alone took the whole 5 seconds.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "People say I'm a skeptic --
***@vex.net but I find that hard to believe."
Wayne Brown
2018-01-26 16:45:32 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Wayne Brown
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter T. Daniels
(As I mentioned in the wake of her death last summer, June Foray, who voiced
Natasha, said she had been instructed to _not_ make her specifically Russian
but to use a generalized "Eastern European" accent.)
Interesting, although I'm not sure how many of the audience would spot
the difference.
Even those who did would find that subtle clue completely overwhelmed
by the name "Boris Badinov".
I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."
Why? It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
confirmed.
Well, I don't automatically take every idle speculation, opinion,
theory and conjecture that I formed decades ago and look them up
on Wikipedia to confirm them, unless there's something important
depending on them. And then I usually look for confirmation from
a more reliable source than Wikipedia. (Wikipedia undoubtedly does
play a part in forming some of the NEW idle speculations, opinions,
theories and conjectures that I'll be holding for the next two or
three decades, if I live that long.)
--
F. Wayne Brown <***@bellsouth.net>

ur sag9-ga ur-tur-še3 ba-an-kur9
"A dog that is played with turns into a puppy." (Sumerian proverb)
Adam Funk
2018-01-26 20:31:01 UTC
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Post by Wayne Brown
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Wayne Brown
I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."
Why? It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
confirmed.
Well, I don't automatically take every idle speculation, opinion,
theory and conjecture that I formed decades ago and look them up
on Wikipedia to confirm them, unless there's something important
depending on them. And then I usually look for confirmation from
a more reliable source than Wikipedia. (Wikipedia undoubtedly does
play a part in forming some of the NEW idle speculations, opinions,
theories and conjectures that I'll be holding for the next two or
three decades, if I live that long.)
I was aware of the Godunov pun, which is in Wikipedia, but where does
it mention _War and Peace_?

Badenov's name is a pun on that of the 16th-century Russian Tsar
Boris Godunov ("bad enough" vs. "good enough"). His accent and
explosive temper are an homage to Hollywood actor Akim Tamiroff,
especially Tamiroff's role in The Great McGinty, a 1940 movie
directed by Preston Sturges.

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Badenov>
--
Consistently separating words by spaces became a general custom about
the tenth century A. D., and lasted until about 1957, when FORTRAN
abandoned the practice. --- Sun FORTRAN Reference Manual
J. J. Lodder
2018-01-26 22:22:02 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Wayne Brown
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Wayne Brown
I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."
Why? It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
confirmed.
Well, I don't automatically take every idle speculation, opinion,
theory and conjecture that I formed decades ago and look them up
on Wikipedia to confirm them, unless there's something important
depending on them. And then I usually look for confirmation from
a more reliable source than Wikipedia. (Wikipedia undoubtedly does
play a part in forming some of the NEW idle speculations, opinions,
theories and conjectures that I'll be holding for the next two or
three decades, if I live that long.)
I was aware of the Godunov pun, which is in Wikipedia, but where does
it mention _War and Peace_?
Badenov's name is a pun on that of the 16th-century Russian Tsar
Boris Godunov ("bad enough" vs. "good enough"). His accent and
explosive temper are an homage to Hollywood actor Akim Tamiroff,
especially Tamiroff's role in The Great McGinty, a 1940 movie
directed by Preston Sturges.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Badenov>
Taken up again by by Goscinny with his Grand Vizier Iznogoud.

Jan
--
"I want to be Caliph instead of the Caliph"
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-26 23:41:00 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Wayne Brown
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Wayne Brown
I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."
Why? It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
confirmed.
Well, I don't automatically take every idle speculation, opinion,
theory and conjecture that I formed decades ago and look them up
on Wikipedia to confirm them, unless there's something important
depending on them. And then I usually look for confirmation from
a more reliable source than Wikipedia. (Wikipedia undoubtedly does
play a part in forming some of the NEW idle speculations, opinions,
theories and conjectures that I'll be holding for the next two or
three decades, if I live that long.)
I was aware of the Godunov pun, which is in Wikipedia, but where does
it mention _War and Peace_?
It doesn't! He was right about Boris, wrong about Natasha.
Adam Funk
2018-01-27 09:31:26 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Wayne Brown
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Wayne Brown
I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."
Why? It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
confirmed.
Well, I don't automatically take every idle speculation, opinion,
theory and conjecture that I formed decades ago and look them up
on Wikipedia to confirm them, unless there's something important
depending on them. And then I usually look for confirmation from
a more reliable source than Wikipedia. (Wikipedia undoubtedly does
play a part in forming some of the NEW idle speculations, opinions,
theories and conjectures that I'll be holding for the next two or
three decades, if I live that long.)
I was aware of the Godunov pun, which is in Wikipedia, but where does
it mention _War and Peace_?
It doesn't! He was right about Boris, wrong about Natasha.
I haven't read _War and Peace_ [1], but if those characters' names are
correct, it's certainly plausible that the R&BS's creators were
influenced by them. Some true things are not covered in Wikipedia.

[1] Car Talk fans might recall from the closing credits, "Our official
Tolstoy biographer is Warren Peace, author of _Leo Tolstoy_ by
Warren Peace."
--
Unix is a user-friendly operating system. It's just very choosy about
its friends.
J. J. Lodder
2018-01-27 12:30:28 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Adam Funk
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 16:07:42 in article <9a6eec16-6f4a-4034-ae7e-3126a853
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Wayne Brown
I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."
Why? It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
confirmed.
Well, I don't automatically take every idle speculation, opinion,
theory and conjecture that I formed decades ago and look them up
on Wikipedia to confirm them, unless there's something important
depending on them. And then I usually look for confirmation from
a more reliable source than Wikipedia. (Wikipedia undoubtedly does
play a part in forming some of the NEW idle speculations, opinions,
theories and conjectures that I'll be holding for the next two or
three decades, if I live that long.)
I was aware of the Godunov pun, which is in Wikipedia, but where does
it mention _War and Peace_?
It doesn't! He was right about Boris, wrong about Natasha.
I haven't read _War and Peace_ [1], but if those characters' names are
correct, it's certainly plausible that the R&BS's creators were
influenced by them. Some true things are not covered in Wikipedia.
All those are covered in the Wikipedia article
on all things that are not in Wikipedia,

Jan
Adam Funk
2018-01-29 09:54:14 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Adam Funk
I was aware of the Godunov pun, which is in Wikipedia, but where does
it mention _War and Peace_?
It doesn't! He was right about Boris, wrong about Natasha.
I haven't read _War and Peace_ [1], but if those characters' names are
correct, it's certainly plausible that the R&BS's creators were
influenced by them. Some true things are not covered in Wikipedia.
All those are covered in the Wikipedia article
on all things that are not in Wikipedia,
Hidden inside a Chinese encyclopedia.
--
A book lying idle on a shelf is wasted ammunition.
--- Henry Miller
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-01-27 12:48:04 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Wayne Brown
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Wayne Brown
I've wondered for years if their names were intended to bring to mind
both Mussorgsky's "Boris Godunov" and the characters Boris Drubetskoy
and Natasha Rostova from "War and Peace."
Why? It takes 5 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia and have it
confirmed.
Well, I don't automatically take every idle speculation, opinion,
theory and conjecture that I formed decades ago and look them up
on Wikipedia to confirm them, unless there's something important
depending on them. And then I usually look for confirmation from
a more reliable source than Wikipedia. (Wikipedia undoubtedly does
play a part in forming some of the NEW idle speculations, opinions,
theories and conjectures that I'll be holding for the next two or
three decades, if I live that long.)
I was aware of the Godunov pun, which is in Wikipedia, but where does
it mention _War and Peace_?
It doesn't! He was right about Boris, wrong about Natasha.
I haven't read _War and Peace_ [1], but if those characters' names are
correct, it's certainly plausible that the R&BS's creators were
influenced by them. Some true things are not covered in Wikipedia.
Except that this one is. The creators intention was always to have a
femme fatale gag. Natasha was simply a very common Russian name.
Hence Natasha Fatale. Whilst the Boris Godunov comparison is
reasonably accessible, being the eponymous title of various works
including an opera, a play and a novel, to 'get' a play on Natasha you
would have to have read or at least be familiar with War and Peace,
and conclude that Natasha in that work is a femme fatale (which she
really isn't). On the basis of simplest explanation is sufficient, if nothing
else, I am confident in my original assessment.
Adam Funk
2018-01-29 09:55:00 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Adam Funk
I haven't read _War and Peace_ [1], but if those characters' names are
correct, it's certainly plausible that the R&BS's creators were
influenced by them. Some true things are not covered in Wikipedia.
Except that this one is.
Is what, true or in Wikipedia?
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
The creators intention was always to have a
femme fatale gag. Natasha was simply a very common Russian name.
Hence Natasha Fatale. Whilst the Boris Godunov comparison is
reasonably accessible, being the eponymous title of various works
including an opera, a play and a novel, to 'get' a play on Natasha you
would have to have read or at least be familiar with War and Peace,
and conclude that Natasha in that work is a femme fatale (which she
really isn't). On the basis of simplest explanation is sufficient, if nothing
else, I am confident in my original assessment.
--
There's no money in poetry, but there's no poetry in
money either. --- Robert Graves
Peter Moylan
2018-01-29 13:53:42 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Adam Funk
I haven't read _War and Peace_ [1], but if those characters' names are
correct, it's certainly plausible that the R&BS's creators were
influenced by them. Some true things are not covered in Wikipedia.
Except that this one is.
Is what, true or in Wikipedia?
Is than an exclusive OR?
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
RH Draney
2018-01-27 14:34:34 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
[1] Car Talk fans might recall from the closing credits, "Our official
Tolstoy biographer is Warren Peace, author of _Leo Tolstoy_ by
Warren Peace."
Disney fans may also recall that in the movie "Sky High", about a group
of high-school-aged budding superheroes, the dark brooding classmate
who's the son of the protagonist's father's arch-nemesis is also named
Warren Peace....r
Adam Funk
2018-01-29 09:55:42 UTC
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Post by RH Draney
Post by Adam Funk
[1] Car Talk fans might recall from the closing credits, "Our official
Tolstoy biographer is Warren Peace, author of _Leo Tolstoy_ by
Warren Peace."
Disney fans may also recall that in the movie "Sky High", about a group
of high-school-aged budding superheroes, the dark brooding classmate
who's the son of the protagonist's father's arch-nemesis is also named
Warren Peace....r
I haven't seen that one, but I would've noticed that.
--
I only regret that I have but one shirt to give for my country.
--- Abbie Hoffman
RH Draney
2018-01-29 10:42:24 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by RH Draney
Post by Adam Funk
[1] Car Talk fans might recall from the closing credits, "Our official
Tolstoy biographer is Warren Peace, author of _Leo Tolstoy_ by
Warren Peace."
Disney fans may also recall that in the movie "Sky High", about a group
of high-school-aged budding superheroes, the dark brooding classmate
who's the son of the protagonist's father's arch-nemesis is also named
Warren Peace....r
I haven't seen that one, but I would've noticed that.
Do check it out...one gag that always cracks me up occurs when the
"sidekick" students are studying, and one of them reads an exercise that
beautifully parodies the "if a train leaves Chicago traveling at 50 mph"
type of word-problem....r
Peter Moylan
2018-01-13 06:26:36 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
If you're too stupid to read what you make stupid comments
about, then shut your shithole mouth (as our Fearless Leader
would say).
Fearless Leader is not a compliment. But it pre-dates
Donald Trump. Where did it start? What dictator did it
originally mock?
Wasn't it originally Peerless Leader?
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2018-01-13 12:22:44 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
If you're too stupid to read what you make stupid comments
about, then shut your shithole mouth (as our Fearless Leader
would say).
Fearless Leader is not a compliment. But it pre-dates
Donald Trump. Where did it start? What dictator did it
originally mock?
Thanks for commenting, limey prick.
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2018-01-27 12:58:05 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
If you're too stupid to read what you make stupid comments
about, then shut your shithole mouth (as our Fearless Leader
would say).
Fearless Leader is not a compliment. But it pre-dates
Donald Trump. Where did it start? What dictator did it
originally mock?
I am the furst one to call him that, limey prick.
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