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Charles Dickens, Semicolon usage correct?
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w***@gmail.com
2017-12-01 14:13:04 UTC
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The following quote is pretty famous, from Martin Chuzzlewit:

"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."

Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.

It seems to me that "stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration" doesn't satisfy that fundamental requirement, unless "it is" or "the word is" is an implied part of the clause. None of the guides say that independent clauses can inherit implied parts from elsewhere.

If it were me, I would have put the semicolon after "word" because then the clauses can stand independently.

Home is a name, a word; It is a strong one, stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration.

Am I missing something?
Peter T. Daniels
2017-12-01 14:31:08 UTC
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Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.
It seems to me that "stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration" doesn't satisfy that fundamental requirement, unless "it is" or "the word is" is an implied part of the clause. None of the guides say that independent clauses can inherit implied parts from elsewhere.
If it were me, I would have put the semicolon after "word" because then the clauses can stand independently.
Home is a name, a word; It is a strong one, stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration.
Am I missing something?
Yes. You're writing in the early 21st century; Dickens was writing in the mid
19th century. Practices change.
Richard Heathfield
2017-12-01 14:34:12 UTC
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Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one. Stronger than magician ever
spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."

That would be perfectly acceptable English. It is not /usual/, but then
neither is starting a sentence with a conjunction, and Joseph Conrad
started an entire story with a conjunction:

“And that be hanged for a silly yarn." - opening of "The Partner"

(I was actually remembering a different one which I can't now find, but
I stumbled across the one above while I was looking for the other. The
one I remembered starts something like this: "And the sea roared. And
the waves crashed." Along those lines, anyway. An extraordinarily
effective way to begin a story.)

The point is that English is a servant, not a master. Great authors know
the rules, but they also know when to bend them or stretch them or even
break them (and they also know when not to).
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2017-12-01 16:08:27 UTC
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Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.
No, the usage is entirely incorrect, son.
In this example of yers, it could only appear between two independence clauses.

I know because I'm a world-class grammarian, specializing in punctuation.
Doug Laidlaw
2017-12-01 16:51:34 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician
ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a
semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning
they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.
No, the usage is entirely incorrect, son.
In this example of yers, it could only appear between two independence clauses.
I know because I'm a world-class grammarian, specializing in punctuation.
I agree. But Dickens was quoting people of a far less well-educated
standard. Anything between quotes is not necessarily how Dickens
himself would have written it. For example:

"Vy worn't there a alleybi!" (Pickwick Papers)

Or you may resonate with this:

"It's over, and can't be helped, and that's one consolation, as they
always say in Turkey, ven they cut the wrong man's head off." (Ibid.)

Try that one on your Thanksgiving turkey!

Doug.
David
2017-12-01 18:00:28 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician
ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a
semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning
they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.
No, the usage is entirely incorrect, son.
In this example of yers, it could only appear between two independence clauses.
I know because I'm a world-class grammarian, specializing in punctuation.
I agree. But Dickens was quoting people of a far less well-educated
standard. Anything between quotes is not necessarily how Dickens
himself would have written it. For example:

"Vy worn't there a alleybi!" (Pickwick Papers)

Or you may resonate with this:

"It's over, and can't be helped, and that's one consolation, as they
always say in Turkey, ven they cut the wrong man's head off." (Ibid.)

Try that one on your Thanksgiving turkey!

Doug.

grammarian
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2017-12-02 14:27:16 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.
No, the usage is entirely incorrect, son.
In this example of yers, it could only appear between two independence clauses.
I know because I'm a world-class grammarian, specializing in punctuation.
"Vy worn't there a alleybi!"  (Pickwick Papers)
"It's over, and can't be helped, and that's one consolation, as they always say in Turkey, ven they cut the wrong man's head off." (Ibid.)
Try that one on your Thanksgiving turkey!
Doug.
grammarian
Yes. Wot I am.
David
2017-12-02 15:46:02 UTC
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Post by Doug Laidlaw
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician ever
spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a
semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning
they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.
No, the usage is entirely incorrect, son.
In this example of yers, it could only appear between two independence clauses.
I know because I'm a world-class grammarian, specializing in punctuation.
I agree. But Dickens was quoting people of a far less well-educated
standard. Anything between quotes is not necessarily how Dickens himself
"Vy worn't there a alleybi!" (Pickwick Papers)
"It's over, and can't be helped, and that's one consolation, as they
always say in Turkey, ven they cut the wrong man's head off." (Ibid.)
Try that one on your Thanksgiving turkey!
Doug.
grammarian
Yes. Wot I am.

supposedly
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2017-12-02 14:26:40 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.
No, the usage is entirely incorrect, son.
In this example of yers, it could only appear between two independence clauses.
I know because I'm a world-class grammarian, specializing in punctuation.
"Vy worn't there a alleybi!"  (Pickwick Papers)
"It's over, and can't be helped, and that's one consolation, as they always say in Turkey, ven they cut the wrong man's head off." (Ibid.)
Try that one on your Thanksgiving turkey!
Doug.
Thanksgiving is over, sweet cheeks.
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2017-12-01 16:51:51 UTC
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On Fri, 1 Dec 2017 08:08:27 -0800, "fake vet Scatboi Colon La Edmund
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.
No, the usage is entirely incorrect, son.
In this example of yers, it could only appear between two independence clauses.
You wouldn't know an independent clause if it pulled down yer moulie
pants and tried to sodomise you!
- -

" I don't even have the heart to tell him I've never infested
Arizona."
- Klaun Shittinb'ricks (1940 - ), acknowledging that he lied
from the very beginning, A jew scam, as expected

Iudaei orbem terrarum infestant.
- correct Latin

"Die Juden sind unser Unglück!"
- Heinrich von Treitschke (1834 - 1896)

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade
Unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade
Unionist. Then they came for the jews, and I did not speak out
because I did not give a shit. Then they came for me and there
wasn't a single commie bastard left to speak for me."
- Martin Niemöller (1892 - 1984)

Fformby-Smythe's Law of zionism:
"The importance of 'Israeel' to any given jew is directly proportional
to the square of the distance between that jew and 'Israeel'."
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2017-12-02 13:56:12 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.
No, the usage is entirely incorrect, son.
In this example of yers, it could only appear between two independence clauses.
I know because I'm a world-class grammarian, specializing in punctuation.
Someone (I forgit who) once said, a semicolon is like a friendly park bench where the weary traveler may rest a little before continuing along his journey.
jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
2017-12-02 14:35:17 UTC
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On Sat, 2 Dec 2017 05:56:12 -0800, "fake vet Scatboi Colon La Edmund
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.
No, the usage is entirely incorrect, son.
In this example of yers, it could only appear between two independence clauses.
I know because I'm a world-class grammarian, specializing in punctuation.
Someone (I forgit who) once said, a semicolon is like a friendly park bench where the weary traveler may rest a little before continuing along his journey.
So what would a colon be?
- -

" I don't even have the heart to tell him I've never infested
Arizona."
- Klaun Shittinb'ricks (1940 - ), acknowledging that he lied
from the very beginning, A jew scam, as expected

Iudaei orbem terrarum infestant.
- correct Latin

"Die Juden sind unser Unglück!"
- Heinrich von Treitschke (1834 - 1896)

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out
because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade
Unionists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade
Unionist. Then they came for the jews, and I did not speak out
because I did not give a shit. Then they came for me and there
wasn't a single commie bastard left to speak for me."
- Martin Niemöller (1892 - 1984)

Fformby-Smythe's Law of zionism:
"The importance of 'Israeel' to any given jew is directly proportional
to the square of the distance between that jew and 'Israeel'."
Peeler
2017-12-02 21:48:22 UTC
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On Sat, 02 Dec 2017 06:35:17 -0800, serbian bitch Razovic, the resident
psychopath of sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, making an ass
of herself as "jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry'
Post by jew pedophile Ron Jacobson (jew pedophile Baruch 'Barry' Shein's jew aliash)
Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Someone (I forgit who) once said, a semicolon is like a friendly park
bench where the weary traveler may rest a little before continuing along
his journey.
So what would a colon be?
That's where your brain is located, Miss Recktum!
--
Shadow about anal Razovic:
"Not forgetting that her asshole is bigger than her brain."
MID: <57f3d883$0$10651$b1db1813$***@news.astraweb.com>
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2017-12-02 13:56:12 UTC
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Post by Colonel Edmund J. Burke
Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.
No, the usage is entirely incorrect, son.
In this example of yers, it could only appear between two independence clauses.
I know because I'm a world-class grammarian, specializing in punctuation.
Someone (I forgit who) once said, a semicolon is like a friendly park bench where the weary traveler may rest a little before continuing along his journey.
Rich Ulrich
2017-12-01 18:42:30 UTC
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Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly? Most grammar guides tell you that a semicolon separates two closely related _independent_ clauses, meaning they could stand on their own as sentences if written that way.
I occasionally use another rule -- when too many commas
would lead to confusion, use a semicolon to indicate the
longer pause in speaking, or to aid the parsing.
Post by w***@gmail.com
It seems to me that "stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration" doesn't satisfy that fundamental requirement, unless "it is" or "the word is" is an implied part of the clause. None of the guides say that independent clauses can inherit implied parts from elsewhere.
If it were me, I would have put the semicolon after "word" because then the clauses can stand independently.
Home is a name, a word; It is a strong one, stronger than magician ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest conjuration.
Am I missing something?
--
Rich Ulrich
Peter Moylan
2017-12-02 00:58:35 UTC
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On 02/12/17 01:13, ***@gmail.com wrote:

[rewrapped for readability]
Post by w***@gmail.com
"Home is a name, a word, it is a strong one; stronger than magician
ever spoke, or spirit ever answered to, in the strongest
conjuration."
Is the semicolon placed correctly?
It looks perfectly normal to me. I might have used a colon myself, in
that situation, but I'm more conservative than most writers. Many people
would have chosen a period.
Post by w***@gmail.com
Most grammar guides tell you that a semicolon separates two closely
related _independent_ clauses, meaning they could stand on their own
as sentences if written that way.
Then I disagree with your grammar guides. A semicolon is for when you
need a break that's stronger than a comma, but weaker than a colon or a
period.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
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