Discussion:
Prime the pump
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Tony Cooper
2017-05-12 05:58:46 UTC
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The other night Stephen Colbert gathered several of his former cohorts
at "The Daily Show" to celebrate Colbert's 20 years on television. As
part of the show, they did a "flashback" skit of a Daily Show meeting
back when George W. Bush was President.

Samantha Bee commented along the lines of what a blessing Bush was to
comedians. She exulted that Bush could be counted on to come out with
some gaffe at least once a month.

The humor of the line was, of course, that our current President
provides comedian fodder at least once a day with some statement or
another.

Trump's latest is that in an interview with "The Economist" Trump the
following was said:

Trump: ...you understand the expression "prime the pump"?

Interviewer: Yes.

Trump: We have to prime the pump.

Interviewer: It's very Keynesian.

Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard
that expression before, for this particular type of an event?

Interviewer: Priming the pump?

Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?

Interviewer: Yes.

Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it a couple of days ago and
I thought it was good. It's what you have to do.

Interviewer: It's...

Trump: Yeah, what you have to do is put something in before you can
get something out.


I'm sure the "Keynesian" reference sailed right over his head and that
he has no idea that using "priming the pump" to describe spending
government money to stimulate economic growth has been used since the
30s.

Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are ranked
in the teens for highest personal income and high only on paper for
corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Rich Ulrich
2017-05-12 07:20:55 UTC
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On Fri, 12 May 2017 01:58:46 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
The other night Stephen Colbert gathered several of his former cohorts
at "The Daily Show" to celebrate Colbert's 20 years on television. As
part of the show, they did a "flashback" skit of a Daily Show meeting
back when George W. Bush was President.
Samantha Bee commented along the lines of what a blessing Bush was to
comedians. She exulted that Bush could be counted on to come out with
some gaffe at least once a month.
The humor of the line was, of course, that our current President
provides comedian fodder at least once a day with some statement or
another.
Trump's latest is that in an interview with "The Economist" Trump the
Trump: ...you understand the expression "prime the pump"?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: We have to prime the pump.
Interviewer: It's very Keynesian.
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard
that expression before, for this particular type of an event?
Interviewer: Priming the pump?
Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it a couple of days ago and
I thought it was good. It's what you have to do.
Interviewer: It's...
Trump: Yeah, what you have to do is put something in before you can
get something out.
I'm sure the "Keynesian" reference sailed right over his head and that
he has no idea that using "priming the pump" to describe spending
government money to stimulate economic growth has been used since the
30s.
As I recall it, "priming the pump" was such an embarrassing failure
for the Nixon years that Republicans abandoned the metaphor in
the Reagan years.
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are ranked
in the teens for highest personal income and high only on paper for
corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
For advanced nations, our overall tax rate is near the bottom. But
that is appropriate since we do not incorporate most of health care
as a government expense.

Still, this is not a special "Trump" lie -- it is a standard line for
a whole lot of congressman.

Now, the argument that giving money to the rich is a /good/ way
to stimulate the economy is one of those special lies. You
probably have to endorse if you want to be a Republican
official. The practice did not work much for Reagan and the
Bushes ... and those theorists" pretty much lost all professional
credibility following their extremely wrong predictions of the effect
of the 1995 tax increase on the rich
--
RIch Ulrich
Janet
2017-05-12 12:13:08 UTC
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In article <***@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
Interviewer: Priming the pump?
Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it a couple of days ago and
I thought it was good. It's what you have to do.
Interviewer: It's...
Trump: Yeah, what you have to do is put something in before you can
get something out.
I'm sure the "Keynesian" reference sailed right over his head and that
he has no idea that using "priming the pump" to describe spending
government money to stimulate economic growth has been used since the
30s.
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are ranked
in the teens for highest personal income and high only on paper for
corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
His level of ignorance about the coubntry he represents is
unbelievable.

Janet
occam
2017-05-18 06:59:57 UTC
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Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
Interviewer: Priming the pump?
Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it a couple of days ago and
I thought it was good. It's what you have to do.
Interviewer: It's...
Trump: Yeah, what you have to do is put something in before you can
get something out.
I'm sure the "Keynesian" reference sailed right over his head and that
he has no idea that using "priming the pump" to describe spending
government money to stimulate economic growth has been used since the
30s.
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are ranked
in the teens for highest personal income and high only on paper for
corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
His level of ignorance about the coubntry he represents is
unbelievable.
His level of ignorance is a reflection of the ignorance of his
countrymen who voted him in. I know more voted against, but 62 million
is a lot of ignorance.
David Kleinecke
2017-05-18 16:55:03 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
Interviewer: Priming the pump?
Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it a couple of days ago and
I thought it was good. It's what you have to do.
Interviewer: It's...
Trump: Yeah, what you have to do is put something in before you can
get something out.
I'm sure the "Keynesian" reference sailed right over his head and that
he has no idea that using "priming the pump" to describe spending
government money to stimulate economic growth has been used since the
30s.
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are ranked
in the teens for highest personal income and high only on paper for
corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
His level of ignorance about the coubntry he represents is
unbelievable.
His level of ignorance is a reflection of the ignorance of his
countrymen who voted him in. I know more voted against, but 62 million
is a lot of ignorance.
Don't underestimate the perversity of people. A lot of people
in the US are attracted to his bullying style. Once upon a
time the same kind of people went to bear-baitings or hangings.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-12 14:20:24 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump's latest is that in an interview with "The Economist" Trump the
Trump: ...you understand the expression "prime the pump"?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: We have to prime the pump.
Interviewer: It's very Keynesian.
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard
that expression before, for this particular type of an event?
Interviewer: Priming the pump?
Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it
In order to figure out what must have been in the tiny mouth of the tiny-handed speaker,
this probably needs to be interpreted as 'it entered my ear recently and was unfamiliar'.
Post by Tony Cooper
a couple of days ago and
I thought it was good. It's what you have to do.
Interviewer: It's...
Trump: Yeah, what you have to do is put something in before you can
get something out.
occam
2017-05-18 07:06:36 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump's latest is that in an interview with "The Economist" Trump the
Trump: ...you understand the expression "prime the pump"?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: We have to prime the pump.
Interviewer: It's very Keynesian.
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard
that expression before, for this particular type of an event?
Interviewer: Priming the pump?
Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it
In order to figure out what must have been in the tiny mouth of the tiny-handed speaker,
this probably needs to be interpreted as 'it entered my ear recently and was unfamiliar'.
I was watching the film "Thirteen Days" (2000) yesterday. It is an
account of the US Cuban missile crisis of '62 and how it was handled by
JFK. The thought that was running through my head all through the film
was - what if something like that happened now under Trump? God help us
all.
Peter Moylan
2017-05-18 08:20:20 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump's latest is that in an interview with "The Economist" Trump the
Trump: ...you understand the expression "prime the pump"?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: We have to prime the pump.
Interviewer: It's very Keynesian.
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard
that expression before, for this particular type of an event?
Interviewer: Priming the pump?
Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it
In order to figure out what must have been in the tiny mouth of the tiny-handed speaker,
this probably needs to be interpreted as 'it entered my ear recently and was unfamiliar'.
Just the other day I saw a comment about him saying "He has no filter.
Things go in one ear and straight out the mouth."
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-18 11:45:45 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump's latest is that in an interview with "The Economist" Trump the
Trump: ...you understand the expression "prime the pump"?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: We have to prime the pump.
Interviewer: It's very Keynesian.
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard
that expression before, for this particular type of an event?
Interviewer: Priming the pump?
Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it
In order to figure out what must have been in the tiny mouth of the tiny-handed speaker,
this probably needs to be interpreted as 'it entered my ear recently and was unfamiliar'.
Just the other day I saw a comment about him saying "He has no filter.
Things go in one ear and straight out the mouth."
Good one.
Sam Plusnet
2017-05-18 19:10:42 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by occam
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump's latest is that in an interview with "The Economist" Trump the
Trump: ...you understand the expression "prime the pump"?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: We have to prime the pump.
Interviewer: It's very Keynesian.
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard
that expression before, for this particular type of an event?
Interviewer: Priming the pump?
Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it
In order to figure out what must have been in the tiny mouth of the tiny-handed speaker,
this probably needs to be interpreted as 'it entered my ear recently and was unfamiliar'.
I was watching the film "Thirteen Days" (2000) yesterday. It is an
account of the US Cuban missile crisis of '62 and how it was handled by
JFK. The thought that was running through my head all through the film
was - what if something like that happened now under Trump? God help us
all.
Just to cheer everyone up, can I point out that Trump seems obsessed
with ratings.
His seem to be the worst in modern times - but there was a distinct
improvement when he caused the bombing of two countries.
What next?
--
Sam Plusnet
s***@gmail.com
2017-05-18 19:58:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump's latest is that in an interview with "The Economist" Trump the
Trump: ...you understand the expression "prime the pump"?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: We have to prime the pump.
Interviewer: It's very Keynesian.
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard
that expression before, for this particular type of an event?
Interviewer: Priming the pump?
Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it
In order to figure out what must have been in the tiny mouth of the tiny-handed speaker,
this probably needs to be interpreted as 'it entered my ear recently and was unfamiliar'.
I was watching the film "Thirteen Days" (2000) yesterday. It is an
account of the US Cuban missile crisis of '62 and how it was handled by
JFK. The thought that was running through my head all through the film
was - what if something like that happened now under Trump? God help us
all.
But the Tweets will be Excellent!
Post by Sam Plusnet
Just to cheer everyone up, can I point out that Trump seems obsessed
with ratings.
His seem to be the worst in modern times - but there was a distinct
improvement when he caused the bombing of two countries.
What next?
Haven't we already done _Wag The Dog_ ?

/dps
Tony Cooper
2017-05-18 20:23:25 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by occam
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump's latest is that in an interview with "The Economist" Trump the
Trump: ...you understand the expression "prime the pump"?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: We have to prime the pump.
Interviewer: It's very Keynesian.
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard
that expression before, for this particular type of an event?
Interviewer: Priming the pump?
Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it
In order to figure out what must have been in the tiny mouth of the tiny-handed speaker,
this probably needs to be interpreted as 'it entered my ear recently and was unfamiliar'.
I was watching the film "Thirteen Days" (2000) yesterday. It is an
account of the US Cuban missile crisis of '62 and how it was handled by
JFK. The thought that was running through my head all through the film
was - what if something like that happened now under Trump? God help us
all.
Just to cheer everyone up, can I point out that Trump seems obsessed
with ratings.
Ratings, yes, but only as they apply to him personally. He made a
comment about Sean Spicer's ratings being good, but he was not
admiring Spicer in that comment. He's admiring Spicer's ratings as an
extension of himself.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter Moylan
2017-05-12 16:56:06 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are ranked
in the teens for highest personal income and high only on paper for
corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
One of the lowest, surely. As befits a country that robs the poor to pay
the rich.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Dr. Jai Maharaj
2017-05-12 19:23:24 UTC
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Raw Message
In article
. . . money to stimulate economic growth . . .
Five Benefits Of Trump's Economic Policies

americanthinker.com
Friday, May 12, 2017

With the man behind "The Art of the Deal" in the Oval
Office, it's no surprise that the economy is booming.
Banks are gearing up for increased lending with the
expectation that Dodd-Frank will be rolled back and
student lending restrictions reduced. Combine that with
industry-specific boosts, such as those benefitting the
auto industry, and the economy is set to take off.

Whether you're looking to borrow, refinance, or you're
just generally watching the market, there are big things
on the horizon. Here's what to expect as President Trump
reintroduces real freedom to the banking world.

Continues at:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/05/five_benefits_of_trumps_economic_policies_.html

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti

http://bit.do/jaimaharaj
Quinn C
2017-05-12 22:02:07 UTC
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* Tony Cooper:

[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you heard
that expression before, for this particular type of an event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are ranked
in the teens for highest personal income and high only on paper for
corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations. Not
much point comparing to Monaco.

I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
--
Everyone gets one personality tic that's then expanded into an
entire character, in the same way that a balloon with a smiley
face will look like a person if at some point you just stop
caring. -- David Berry, NatPost (on the cast of Criminal Minds)
CDB
2017-05-13 13:22:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you
heard that expression before, for this particular type of an
event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are
ranked in the teens for highest personal income and high only on
paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations. Not much
point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good comparison
with US jusrisdictions.
Quinn C
2017-05-13 23:37:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you
heard that expression before, for this particular type of an
event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are
ranked in the teens for highest personal income and high only on
paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations. Not much
point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good comparison
with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of
tax rates.
--
Strategy: A long-range plan whose merit cannot be evaluated
until sometime after those creating it have left the organization.
Cheryl
2017-05-14 09:32:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you
heard that expression before, for this particular type of an
event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are
ranked in the teens for highest personal income and high only on
paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations. Not much
point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good comparison
with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of
tax rates.
If taxes are expected to cover more costs than in another jurisdiction,
they'd also be expected to be higher.
--
Cheryl
Janet
2017-05-14 12:03:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cheryl
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you
heard that expression before, for this particular type of an
event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are
ranked in the teens for highest personal income and high only on
paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations. Not much
point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good comparison
with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of
tax rates.
If taxes are expected to cover more costs than in another jurisdiction,
they'd also be expected to be higher.
Which is WHY Trumps statement was just wrongity wrong. USA is NOT the
most highly taxed country.

Janet.
Peter Moylan
2017-05-14 13:20:48 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by Cheryl
If taxes are expected to cover more costs than in another jurisdiction,
they'd also be expected to be higher.
Which is WHY Trumps statement was just wrongity wrong. USA is NOT the
most highly taxed country.
It's probably not the lowest, but it must come close.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Charles Bishop
2017-05-14 20:07:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Janet
Post by Cheryl
If taxes are expected to cover more costs than in another jurisdiction,
they'd also be expected to be higher.
Which is WHY Trumps statement was just wrongity wrong. USA is NOT the
most highly taxed country.
It's probably not the lowest, but it must come close.
What are we considering as taxes? There are, federal income taxes, state
income taxes, county and city sales taxes (are there state ones?), and
property taxes from (usually?) a county. There are also mport duties
from the feds that are a cost on goods to the consumer. There are also
various fees by federal, state, county and city governments. There may
be a couple of categories that I've forgotten.

I've often wondered if the various taxes, fees, surcharges and the like
were added up for each country the totals might not be similar. A
government might know how much it can get away with before the citizens
riot.
--
charles
Cheryl
2017-05-15 01:22:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Janet
Post by Cheryl
If taxes are expected to cover more costs than in another jurisdiction,
they'd also be expected to be higher.
Which is WHY Trumps statement was just wrongity wrong. USA is NOT the
most highly taxed country.
It's probably not the lowest, but it must come close.
What are we considering as taxes? There are, federal income taxes, state
income taxes, county and city sales taxes (are there state ones?), and
property taxes from (usually?) a county. There are also mport duties
from the feds that are a cost on goods to the consumer. There are also
various fees by federal, state, county and city governments. There may
be a couple of categories that I've forgotten.
I've often wondered if the various taxes, fees, surcharges and the like
were added up for each country the totals might not be similar. A
government might know how much it can get away with before the citizens
riot.
At one point some years ago I read a comparison of US and Canadian taxes
- no doubt there have been many, but I haven't bothered with them much
since I won't be living in the US and paying US taxes. However, this
particular article seemed rather thorough and pointed out that in
general, if you just compare one type of taxes - eg income taxes - you
get one result, but if you compare the total of all taxes, the rate is
actually fairly similar, at least for some parts of the US and some
parts of Canada. The problem with simplistic comparisons is, as some
people have noted, Canada and the US have quite different systems of
taxation in general, as well as, of course, some variations by state and
province.

The bulk of my taxes are paid in the form of income tax, although of
course, if I were buying food and clothing for a family, gas for a car,
and hosted lots of alcoholic parties, what I pay in sales tax would go
way up. My city taxes (which include the cost for water) are pretty
moderate, although like everyone else I moan about them especially when
the new property assessments come out. I suspect in many parts of the
US, I'd be paying proportionally more in property taxes and maybe less
in income tax, although I admit I haven't looked the comparisons up
recently.
--
Cheryl
Charles Bishop
2017-05-14 20:01:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by Cheryl
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you
heard that expression before, for this particular type of an
event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are
ranked in the teens for highest personal income and high only on
paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations. Not much
point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good comparison
with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of
tax rates.
If taxes are expected to cover more costs than in another jurisdiction,
they'd also be expected to be higher.
Which is WHY Trumps statement was just wrongity wrong. USA is NOT the
most highly taxed country.
You weren't expecting it to be correct, were you?
--
charles
Janet
2017-05-15 00:04:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Janet
Post by Cheryl
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you
heard that expression before, for this particular type of an
event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are
ranked in the teens for highest personal income and high only on
paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations. Not much
point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good comparison
with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of
tax rates.
If taxes are expected to cover more costs than in another jurisdiction,
they'd also be expected to be higher.
Which is WHY Trumps statement was just wrongity wrong. USA is NOT the
most highly taxed country.
You weren't expecting it to be correct, were you?
One wonders how many of his US audience believed it because he said
so.

Janet
Charles Bishop
2017-05-15 00:47:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Janet
Post by Cheryl
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you
heard that expression before, for this particular type of an
event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are
ranked in the teens for highest personal income and high only on
paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations. Not much
point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good comparison
with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of
tax rates.
If taxes are expected to cover more costs than in another jurisdiction,
they'd also be expected to be higher.
Which is WHY Trumps statement was just wrongity wrong. USA is NOT the
most highly taxed country.
You weren't expecting it to be correct, were you?
One wonders how many of his US audience believed it because he said
so.
The cynic in me says that probably a percentage similar to any lie told
by a politician. Trump's are more visible though so perhaps there will
be fewer.
--
charles
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-15 03:53:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Janet
Post by Cheryl
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you
heard that expression before, for this particular type of an
event?
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We are
ranked in the teens for highest personal income and high only on
paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations. Not much
point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good comparison
with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of
tax rates.
If taxes are expected to cover more costs than in another jurisdiction,
they'd also be expected to be higher.
Which is WHY Trumps statement was just wrongity wrong. USA is NOT the
most highly taxed country.
You weren't expecting it to be correct, were you?
One wonders how many of his US audience believed it because he said
so.
36%, according to the NBC-Wall Street Journal poll released this morning.

Lowest approval rating for a 100-day president ever. Hasn't changed since February.
CDB
2017-05-14 14:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you
heard that expression before, for this particular type of an
event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We
are ranked in the teens for highest personal income and high
only on paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is before
deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations. Not
much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of tax
rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in the US.
Lower taxes there are possible, in part, because the taxpayer has to
find money separately for doctoring.

In Ontario, there's even an additional levy for health-care on the
income tax, if you are at all comfortable (it's progressive). I'm not
rich, but I put in a few hundred bucks extra at the end of last month.

Did you mean only sales taxes?
Tony Cooper
2017-05-14 14:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you
heard that expression before, for this particular type of an
event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We
are ranked in the teens for highest personal income and high
only on paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is before
deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations. Not
much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of tax
rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in the US.
Medicare, in the US, is paid for out of taxes. In 2015, Medicare
provided health insurance for over 55 million Americans.
Post by CDB
Lower taxes there are possible, in part, because the taxpayer has to
find money separately for doctoring.
In Ontario, there's even an additional levy for health-care on the
income tax, if you are at all comfortable (it's progressive). I'm not
rich, but I put in a few hundred bucks extra at the end of last month.
Did you mean only sales taxes?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-14 17:29:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by CDB
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of tax
rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in the US.
Medicare, in the US, is paid for out of taxes. In 2015, Medicare
provided health insurance for over 55 million Americans.
The Medicare premium is deducted from the monthly Social Security payment. In 2017, the
Medicare premium increased by exactly the same amount ($3) as the monthly SocSec payment.
Charles Bishop
2017-05-14 20:00:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by CDB
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you
heard that expression before, for this particular type of an
event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We
are ranked in the teens for highest personal income and high
only on paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is before
deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations. Not
much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of tax
rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in the US.
Medicare, in the US, is paid for out of taxes. In 2015, Medicare
provided health insurance for over 55 million Americans.
A small addition, if I may. Government programs in the US are paid for
with taxes /and/ inflation as the government borrows money to cover some
of the programs because taxes don't cover the expenditure for each year.
Some is paid for by inflating the money supply over time.
--
charles
CDB
2017-05-14 22:32:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have
you heard that expression before, for this particular
type of an event?
[...]
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world.
We are ranked in the teens for highest personal income
and high only on paper for corporate tax since our 35%
rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations.
Not much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in
North America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison
of tax rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in the US.
Medicare, in the US, is paid for out of taxes. In 2015, Medicare
provided health insurance for over 55 million Americans.
Paying for only about 15% of the population still allows a noticeable
reduction in cost over paying for everybody.
Post by Charles Bishop
A small addition, if I may. Government programs in the US are paid
for with taxes /and/ inflation as the government borrows money to
cover some of the programs because taxes don't cover the expenditure
for each year. Some is paid for by inflating the money supply over
time.
As long as the US buck remains the standard for international payments,
you will be able to keep doing that.
Tony Cooper
2017-05-14 23:02:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have
you heard that expression before, for this particular
type of an event?
[...]
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world.
We are ranked in the teens for highest personal income
and high only on paper for corporate tax since our 35%
rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations.
Not much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in
North America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison
of tax rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in the US.
Medicare, in the US, is paid for out of taxes. In 2015, Medicare
provided health insurance for over 55 million Americans.
Paying for only about 15% of the population still allows a noticeable
reduction in cost over paying for everybody.
But what percentage of the medical bills are paid for by Medicare?
That 15% of the population accounts for a disproportionately higher
need for health care.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
CDB
2017-05-15 13:20:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by CDB
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world.
Have you heard that expression before, for this
particular type of an event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the
world. We are ranked in the teens for highest
personal income and high only on paper for corporate
tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized
nations. Not much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction
in North America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a
good comparison with US jurisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a
comparison of tax rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and
not in the US.
Medicare, in the US, is paid for out of taxes. In 2015,
Medicare provided health insurance for over 55 million
Americans.
Paying for only about 15% of the population still allows a
noticeable reduction in cost over paying for everybody.
But what percentage of the medical bills are paid for by Medicare?
That 15% of the population accounts for a disproportionately higher
need for health care.
This is beginning to sound like a contest. I would prefer to avoid that
discussion; my point was that a comparison of the tax regime of a
country where major expenditures are made out of tax revenue with the
regime of a country where the same expenditures (or many of them) are
left to the individual requires some adjustment to make it useful.

I am willing to alter my statement to read "a considerably greater
proportion of medical care is paid for out of taxes here ...".
Tony Cooper
2017-05-15 13:35:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by CDB
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world.
Have you heard that expression before, for this
particular type of an event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the
world. We are ranked in the teens for highest
personal income and high only on paper for corporate
tax since our 35% rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized
nations. Not much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction
in North America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a
good comparison with US jurisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a
comparison of tax rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and
not in the US.
Medicare, in the US, is paid for out of taxes. In 2015,
Medicare provided health insurance for over 55 million
Americans.
Paying for only about 15% of the population still allows a
noticeable reduction in cost over paying for everybody.
But what percentage of the medical bills are paid for by Medicare?
That 15% of the population accounts for a disproportionately higher
need for health care.
This is beginning to sound like a contest. I would prefer to avoid that
discussion; my point was that a comparison of the tax regime of a
country where major expenditures are made out of tax revenue with the
regime of a country where the same expenditures (or many of them) are
left to the individual requires some adjustment to make it useful.
I am willing to alter my statement to read "a considerably greater
proportion of medical care is paid for out of taxes here ...".
I am not at all interested in my-country-does-it-better-than-yours, or
you-need-a-written-constitution contests.

My only point is that some statements need additional information to
be relevant.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Charles Bishop
2017-05-15 00:48:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have
you heard that expression before, for this particular
type of an event?
[...]
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world.
We are ranked in the teens for highest personal income
and high only on paper for corporate tax since our 35%
rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations.
Not much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in
North America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison
of tax rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in the US.
Medicare, in the US, is paid for out of taxes. In 2015, Medicare
provided health insurance for over 55 million Americans.
Paying for only about 15% of the population still allows a noticeable
reduction in cost over paying for everybody.
Post by Charles Bishop
A small addition, if I may. Government programs in the US are paid
for with taxes /and/ inflation as the government borrows money to
cover some of the programs because taxes don't cover the expenditure
for each year. Some is paid for by inflating the money supply over
time.
As long as the US buck remains the standard for international payments,
you will be able to keep doing that.
Not something I want a government to be able to do, though. The
reckoning comes sooner or later.
--
charlss
Peter Moylan
2017-05-15 02:16:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
Post by Charles Bishop
A small addition, if I may. Government programs in the US are paid
for with taxes /and/ inflation as the government borrows money to
cover some of the programs because taxes don't cover the expenditure
for each year. Some is paid for by inflating the money supply over
time.
As long as the US buck remains the standard for international payments,
you will be able to keep doing that.
I remember once reading an analysis that claimed to show that because of
that factor, and the de facto status of the US dollar being the basis
for expressing exchange rates, the US economy was being subsidised by
the rest of the world.

That article was probably written at a time when some US people were
panicking over the possibility that a lot of international trade
contracts would be written in Euro or Yen.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Rich Ulrich
2017-05-15 06:58:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 15 May 2017 12:16:27 +1000, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by CDB
Post by Charles Bishop
A small addition, if I may. Government programs in the US are paid
for with taxes /and/ inflation as the government borrows money to
cover some of the programs because taxes don't cover the expenditure
for each year. Some is paid for by inflating the money supply over
time.
As long as the US buck remains the standard for international payments,
you will be able to keep doing that.
I remember once reading an analysis that claimed to show that because of
that factor, and the de facto status of the US dollar being the basis
for expressing exchange rates, the US economy was being subsidised by
the rest of the world.
I have seen a more straightforward argument that the U.S.
economy is being subsidized internationally -- the U.S. "trade
deficit" has been about half a trillion a year ever since Reagan's
first term. One reason that has not destroyed the economy is
that we started out, in 1980, by having a "trade balance" that
was trillions of dollars in our favor. In fact, one reason that I
noticed the report of the excess balance is that it was an odd
one in a list of how much the U.S. dominated world trade and
world consumption... and it was considered a potential problem.
How could the rest of the world ever come into balance?

That trade deficit is usually blamed on government policies.
However, it started out, in part, because of the success of
the U.S.-driven "green revolution" in Southeast Asia. New grain
varieties and practices allowed a number of countries to become
self-sufficient, instead of relying on imports.

Another factor that /seems/ to be relevant, but I'm not an
economist to know how it is accounted, is the existence of
those "trillions of dollars of profits that corportations hold
abroad". That accumulation gets mentioned when folks want
to lower the corporate income tax rate, or to declare a one-time
holiday for re-patriating (seems like an odd word to use) the money.
in order to avoid corporate income taxes.
Post by Peter Moylan
That article was probably written at a time when some US people were
panicking over the possibility that a lot of international trade
contracts would be written in Euro or Yen.
Throwing out the Pacific trade treaty, as Trump did (is doing?)
was criticized for conceding Pacific trade dominance to China.
- I expect it will take additional mistakes, to actually have a
huge effect.
--
Rich Ulrich
Mark Brader
2017-05-14 18:46:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
In Ontario, there's even an additional levy for health-care on the
income tax, if you are at all comfortable (it's progressive). I'm not
rich, but I put in a few hundred bucks extra at the end of last month.
For greater clarity: that's an annual amount. It's "last month" because
that's when income-tax day was.
--
Mark Brader | "After that, he spent a long time just reading netnews.
***@vex.net | Sorry, I mean of course that he was debugging his
Toronto | terminal emulation code..." --Lars Wirzenius
Quinn C
2017-05-15 02:49:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have you
heard that expression before, for this particular type of an
event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We
are ranked in the teens for highest personal income and high
only on paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is before
deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations. Not
much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of tax
rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in the US.
Lower taxes there are possible, in part, because the taxpayer has to
find money separately for doctoring.
Because "tax rate" means how much tax you pay, not how much it
costs in a country to pay for a certain list of services.

That is important because taxes have certain properties that make
them different from other payments, like being unavoidable when
certain conditions are met, and that you can't choose another
"provider" easily.

Health care in Germany is highly regulated, and having health
insurance is obligatory unless you are secured by other, similar
means (e.g. being on welfare), but for the most part, neither the
health care itself nor the insurance is provided by government.
Health insurance is therefore not a tax, even when it is within
the highly regulated branch where your premium is determined based
on and automatically deducted from employment income. It's treated
as a part of social insurance, like money you pay into pension
plans and employment insurance.

When you think of these last two, it should become clear that it
is very difficult to determine the right list for the sort of
comparison you suggested. Old Age Security is also financed out of
taxes in Canada, and there is nothing comparable in Germany, and
probably not in the US, either.
--
The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose
from; furthermore, if you do not like any of them, you can just
wait for next year's model.
Andrew Tanenbaum, _Computer Networks_ (1981), p. 168.
CDB
2017-05-15 13:28:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have
you heard that expression before, for this particular type
of an event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We
are ranked in the teens for highest personal income and
high only on paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is
before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations.
Not much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in
North America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of
tax rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in
the US. Lower taxes there are possible, in part, because the
taxpayer has to find money separately for doctoring.
Because "tax rate" means how much tax you pay, not how much it costs
in a country to pay for a certain list of services.
I don't recall seeing "tax rate" in your posting before this. Above,
you speak of Quebec as the "highest-taxed jurisdiction in North America".

Politicians generally make a show of keeping taxes to a minimum.
Certainly they do so in both the US and Canada. It is possible to
reduce taxes further if you don't require the money for (say) universal
healthcare than if you do.

Of course, the question is much more complicated than that simple
opposition (all that US tax money spent on weapons, frex); but some such
adjustment is required, IMO, for useful comparison.
That is important because taxes have certain properties that make
them different from other payments, like being unavoidable when
certain conditions are met, and that you can't choose another
"provider" easily.
Health care in Germany is highly regulated, and having health
insurance is obligatory unless you are secured by other, similar
means (e.g. being on welfare), but for the most part, neither the
health care itself nor the insurance is provided by government.
Health insurance is therefore not a tax, even when it is within the
highly regulated branch where your premium is determined based on
and automatically deducted from employment income. It's treated as a
part of social insurance, like money you pay into pension plans and
employment insurance.
When you think of these last two, it should become clear that it is
very difficult to determine the right list for the sort of
comparison you suggested. Old Age Security is also financed out of
taxes in Canada, and there is nothing comparable in Germany, and
probably not in the US, either.
Keep in mind that you made your claim with respect to North America.
That leaves it as a comparison between the US, unless you want to bring
in Mexican taxation. Some here may know all about that, but I don't.

We are discussing a matter about which my detailed factual knowledge is
pas mal shaky. From what you say just above, that may also be true of
you in some degree. I think I'm going to stop.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-15 15:05:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have
you heard that expression before, for this particular type
of an event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We
are ranked in the teens for highest personal income and
high only on paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is
before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations.
Not much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in
North America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of
tax rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in
the US. Lower taxes there are possible, in part, because the
taxpayer has to find money separately for doctoring.
Because "tax rate" means how much tax you pay, not how much it costs
in a country to pay for a certain list of services.
I don't recall seeing "tax rate" in your posting before this. Above,
you speak of Quebec as the "highest-taxed jurisdiction in North America".
Politicians generally make a show of keeping taxes to a minimum.
Certainly they do so in both the US and Canada. It is possible to
reduce taxes further if you don't require the money for (say) universal
healthcare than if you do.
Of course, the question is much more complicated than that simple
opposition (all that US tax money spent on weapons, frex); but some such
adjustment is required, IMO, for useful comparison.
That is important because taxes have certain properties that make
them different from other payments, like being unavoidable when
certain conditions are met, and that you can't choose another
"provider" easily.
Health care in Germany is highly regulated, and having health
insurance is obligatory unless you are secured by other, similar
means (e.g. being on welfare), but for the most part, neither the
health care itself nor the insurance is provided by government.
Health insurance is therefore not a tax, even when it is within the
highly regulated branch where your premium is determined based on
and automatically deducted from employment income. It's treated as a
part of social insurance, like money you pay into pension plans and
employment insurance.
When you think of these last two, it should become clear that it is
very difficult to determine the right list for the sort of
comparison you suggested. Old Age Security is also financed out of
taxes in Canada, and there is nothing comparable in Germany, and
probably not in the US, either.
Keep in mind that you made your claim with respect to North America.
That leaves it as a comparison between the US, unless you want to bring
in Mexican taxation. Some here may know all about that, but I don't.
North America goes all the way down to Panama. Central America (which sometimes
even includes Mexico) is a part of North America.
Post by CDB
We are discussing a matter about which my detailed factual knowledge is
pas mal shaky. From what you say just above, that may also be true of
you in some degree. I think I'm going to stop.
CDB
2017-05-15 15:29:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world.
Have you heard that expression before, for this
particular type of an event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world.
We are ranked in the teens for highest personal income
and high only on paper for corporate tax since our 35%
rate is before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized
nations. Not much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction
in North America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a
good comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison
of tax rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not
in the US. Lower taxes there are possible, in part, because
the taxpayer has to find money separately for doctoring.
Because "tax rate" means how much tax you pay, not how much it
costs in a country to pay for a certain list of services.
I don't recall seeing "tax rate" in your posting before this.
Above, you speak of Quebec as the "highest-taxed jurisdiction in
North America".
Politicians generally make a show of keeping taxes to a minimum.
Certainly they do so in both the US and Canada. It is possible to
reduce taxes further if you don't require the money for (say)
universal healthcare than if you do.
Of course, the question is much more complicated than that simple
opposition (all that US tax money spent on weapons, frex); but some
such adjustment is required, IMO, for useful comparison.
Post by Quinn C
That is important because taxes have certain properties that
make them different from other payments, like being unavoidable
when certain conditions are met, and that you can't choose
another "provider" easily.
Health care in Germany is highly regulated, and having health
insurance is obligatory unless you are secured by other, similar
means (e.g. being on welfare), but for the most part, neither
the health care itself nor the insurance is provided by
government. Health insurance is therefore not a tax, even when it
is within the highly regulated branch where your premium is
determined based on and automatically deducted from employment
income. It's treated as a part of social insurance, like money
you pay into pension plans and employment insurance.
When you think of these last two, it should become clear that it
is very difficult to determine the right list for the sort of
comparison you suggested. Old Age Security is also financed out
of taxes in Canada, and there is nothing comparable in Germany,
and probably not in the US, either.
Keep in mind that you made your claim with respect to North
America. That leaves it as a comparison between the US, unless you
want to bring in Mexican taxation. Some here may know all about
that, but I don't.
North America goes all the way down to Panama. Central America (which
sometimes even includes Mexico) is a part of North America.
Don't stop now. Tell everybody some relevant stuff about Guatemalan
taxation. Does it fund public healthcare?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
We are discussing a matter about which my detailed factual
knowledge is pas mal shaky. From what you say just above, that may
also be true of you in some degree. I think I'm going to stop.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-15 15:39:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Keep in mind that you made your claim with respect to North
America. That leaves it as a comparison between the US, unless you
want to bring in Mexican taxation. Some here may know all about
that, but I don't.
North America goes all the way down to Panama. Central America (which
sometimes even includes Mexico) is a part of North America.
Don't stop now. Tell everybody some relevant stuff about Guatemalan
taxation. Does it fund public healthcare?
Don't say that "North America" means 'Canada and the US and maybe Mexico'.

Why would I know anything abut Guatemala?
Post by CDB
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
We are discussing a matter about which my detailed factual
knowledge is pas mal shaky. From what you say just above, that may
also be true of you in some degree. I think I'm going to stop.
Quinn C
2017-05-15 17:59:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Keep in mind that you made your claim with respect to North
America. That leaves it as a comparison between the US, unless you
want to bring in Mexican taxation. Some here may know all about
that, but I don't.
North America goes all the way down to Panama. Central America (which
sometimes even includes Mexico) is a part of North America.
Don't stop now. Tell everybody some relevant stuff about Guatemalan
taxation. Does it fund public healthcare?
Don't say that "North America" means 'Canada and the US and maybe Mexico'.
I'm at fault for quoting a statement I didn't check myself. I have
read several times that Quebec is "the highest-taxed jurisdiction
in North America", without knowing what was meant, exactly.

Let's assume that we only know, with some degree of certainty,
that tax levels are higher here than in any other province of
Canada or any state of the US.
--
... man muss oft schon Wissenschaft infrage stellen bei den Wirt-
schaftsmenschen [...] das Denken wird haeufig blockiert von einem
ideologischen Ueberbau [...] Es ist halt in vielen Teilen eher
eine Religion als eine Wissenschaft. -- Heiner Flassbeck
David Kleinecke
2017-05-15 16:49:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have
you heard that expression before, for this particular type
of an event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We
are ranked in the teens for highest personal income and
high only on paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is
before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations.
Not much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in
North America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of
tax rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in
the US. Lower taxes there are possible, in part, because the
taxpayer has to find money separately for doctoring.
Because "tax rate" means how much tax you pay, not how much it costs
in a country to pay for a certain list of services.
I don't recall seeing "tax rate" in your posting before this. Above,
you speak of Quebec as the "highest-taxed jurisdiction in North America".
Politicians generally make a show of keeping taxes to a minimum.
Certainly they do so in both the US and Canada. It is possible to
reduce taxes further if you don't require the money for (say) universal
healthcare than if you do.
Of course, the question is much more complicated than that simple
opposition (all that US tax money spent on weapons, frex); but some such
adjustment is required, IMO, for useful comparison.
That is important because taxes have certain properties that make
them different from other payments, like being unavoidable when
certain conditions are met, and that you can't choose another
"provider" easily.
Health care in Germany is highly regulated, and having health
insurance is obligatory unless you are secured by other, similar
means (e.g. being on welfare), but for the most part, neither the
health care itself nor the insurance is provided by government.
Health insurance is therefore not a tax, even when it is within the
highly regulated branch where your premium is determined based on
and automatically deducted from employment income. It's treated as a
part of social insurance, like money you pay into pension plans and
employment insurance.
When you think of these last two, it should become clear that it is
very difficult to determine the right list for the sort of
comparison you suggested. Old Age Security is also financed out of
taxes in Canada, and there is nothing comparable in Germany, and
probably not in the US, either.
Keep in mind that you made your claim with respect to North America.
That leaves it as a comparison between the US, unless you want to bring
in Mexican taxation. Some here may know all about that, but I don't.
North America goes all the way down to Panama. Central America (which sometimes
even includes Mexico) is a part of North America.
Do you include Bermuda? Cuba? Trinidad? Or where in the
Antilles does North America stop and South America
begin?
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-15 17:11:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Keep in mind that you made your claim with respect to North America.
That leaves it as a comparison between the US, unless you want to bring
in Mexican taxation. Some here may know all about that, but I don't.
North America goes all the way down to Panama. Central America (which sometimes
even includes Mexico) is a part of North America.
Do you include Bermuda? Cuba? Trinidad? Or where in the
Antilles does North America stop and South America
begin?
I've never seen an atlas that doesn't include the Caribbean in the North America
section. Bermuda, too, isn't included among the "Atlantic islands" like St.
Helena, Ascension, and Tristan da Cunha. The Canaries and Azores are usually
in the Europe section with their owners, Cape Verde Islands in Africa.
David Kleinecke
2017-05-15 17:38:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Keep in mind that you made your claim with respect to North America.
That leaves it as a comparison between the US, unless you want to bring
in Mexican taxation. Some here may know all about that, but I don't.
North America goes all the way down to Panama. Central America (which sometimes
even includes Mexico) is a part of North America.
Do you include Bermuda? Cuba? Trinidad? Or where in the
Antilles does North America stop and South America
begin?
I've never seen an atlas that doesn't include the Caribbean in the North America
section. Bermuda, too, isn't included among the "Atlantic islands" like St.
Helena, Ascension, and Tristan da Cunha. The Canaries and Azores are usually
in the Europe section with their owners, Cape Verde Islands in Africa.
Trinidad, Aruba, etc. are in North America?

Barbados?
CDB
2017-05-16 12:30:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[Quebec is the most heavily-taxed jurisdiction in North America]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Keep in mind that you made your claim with respect to North
America. That leaves it as a comparison between the US, unless
you want to bring in Mexican taxation. Some here may know all
about that, but I don't.
Since I'm posting again, I might as well correct "between" above to 'with".
Post by Peter T. Daniels
North America goes all the way down to Panama. Central America
(which sometimes even includes Mexico) is a part of North America.
Do you include Bermuda? Cuba? Trinidad? Or where in the Antilles does
North America stop and South America begin?
You have these two countries in North America: Quinn has said that
his is the most heavily taxed (at least his part of it), and
Trump claims the honour for his country.

I haven't seen any suggestions that Guatemala (one example
among many) has notably high taxes, probably because it doesn't; I'm
not really interested for purposes of this discussion, since
it's not very relevant to the comparison mentioned above.

You can see up there too, that I did not suggest
Mexico should be considered; rather the reverse. Why intervene to point
out that I should have excluded other countries too?

As I also said above, there is little point in discussing taxation in
countries one doesn't know enough about.
David Kleinecke
2017-05-16 16:24:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
[Quebec is the most heavily-taxed jurisdiction in North America]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Keep in mind that you made your claim with respect to North
America. That leaves it as a comparison between the US, unless
you want to bring in Mexican taxation. Some here may know all
about that, but I don't.
Since I'm posting again, I might as well correct "between" above to 'with".
Post by Peter T. Daniels
North America goes all the way down to Panama. Central America
(which sometimes even includes Mexico) is a part of North America.
Do you include Bermuda? Cuba? Trinidad? Or where in the Antilles does
North America stop and South America begin?
You have these two countries in North America: Quinn has said that
his is the most heavily taxed (at least his part of it), and
Trump claims the honour for his country.
I haven't seen any suggestions that Guatemala (one example
among many) has notably high taxes, probably because it doesn't; I'm
not really interested for purposes of this discussion, since
it's not very relevant to the comparison mentioned above.
You can see up there too, that I did not suggest
Mexico should be considered; rather the reverse. Why intervene to point
out that I should have excluded other countries too?
As I also said above, there is little point in discussing taxation in
countries one doesn't know enough about.
Do governments have any significant income other than from
taxes? Assuming "no" then one should divide the government
income by the population to get the proper figure of merit.

Of course, in the US, at least, a person is likely to be in
a half dozen different taxing "governments" (that includes
special districts and so on) - so no way can a single figure
be given for taxation in the US. Other countries may be more
centralized.
CDB
2017-05-16 16:38:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
[Quebec is the most heavily-taxed jurisdiction in North America]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Keep in mind that you made your claim with respect to North
America. That leaves it as a comparison between the US,
unless you want to bring in Mexican taxation. Some here may
know all about that, but I don't.
Since I'm posting again, I might as well correct "between" above to 'with".
Post by Peter T. Daniels
North America goes all the way down to Panama. Central America
(which sometimes even includes Mexico) is a part of North
America.
Do you include Bermuda? Cuba? Trinidad? Or where in the Antilles
does North America stop and South America begin?
You have these two countries in North America: Quinn has said that
his is the most heavily taxed (at least his part of it), and Trump
claims the honour for his country.
I haven't seen any suggestions that Guatemala (one example among
many) has notably high taxes, probably because it doesn't; I'm not
really interested for purposes of this discussion, since it's not
very relevant to the comparison mentioned above.
You can see up there too, that I did not suggest Mexico should be
considered; rather the reverse. Why intervene to point out that I
should have excluded other countries too?
As I also said above, there is little point in discussing taxation
in countries one doesn't know enough about.
Do governments have any significant income other than from taxes?
Assuming "no" then one should divide the government income by the
population to get the proper figure of merit.
Your government borrows rather heavily. Mine too, at the moment. The
previous Government lowered taxes with the admitted intention of
crippling future attempts to bring in new spending programs, but we're
going to have some anyway.
Of course, in the US, at least, a person is likely to be in a half
dozen different taxing "governments" (that includes special districts
and so on) - so no way can a single figure be given for taxation in
the US. Other countries may be more centralized.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-16 20:34:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
Do governments have any significant income other than from taxes?
Assuming "no" then one should divide the government income by the
population to get the proper figure of merit.
Your government borrows rather heavily. Mine too, at the moment. The
previous Government lowered taxes with the admitted intention of
crippling future attempts to bring in new spending programs, but we're
going to have some anyway.
States have to have balanced budgets (on paper, anyway). The Feds have several
ways to avoid that.
Post by CDB
Of course, in the US, at least, a person is likely to be in a half
dozen different taxing "governments" (that includes special districts
and so on) - so no way can a single figure be given for taxation in
the US. Other countries may be more centralized.
Sam Plusnet
2017-05-17 14:51:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Kleinecke
Do governments have any significant income other than from
taxes? Assuming "no" then one should divide the government
income by the population to get the proper figure of merit.
Some countries have significant Sovereign wealth funds.
--
Sam Plusnet
Quinn C
2017-05-15 18:01:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have
you heard that expression before, for this particular type
of an event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We
are ranked in the teens for highest personal income and
high only on paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is
before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations.
Not much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in
North America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of
tax rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in
the US. Lower taxes there are possible, in part, because the
taxpayer has to find money separately for doctoring.
Because "tax rate" means how much tax you pay, not how much it costs
in a country to pay for a certain list of services.
I don't recall seeing "tax rate" in your posting before this.
I use it somewhat abstractly as a scale for measuring how
highly-taxed a jurisdiction is. So it was implicit in the term
"highly-taxed".

Usually, it's only used in reference to one single tax.
Post by CDB
Above,
you speak of Quebec as the "highest-taxed jurisdiction in North America".
Politicians generally make a show of keeping taxes to a minimum.
Certainly they do so in both the US and Canada. It is possible to
reduce taxes further if you don't require the money for (say) universal
healthcare than if you do.
Of course, the question is much more complicated than that simple
opposition (all that US tax money spent on weapons, frex); but some such
adjustment is required, IMO, for useful comparison.
I felt our communication wasn't optimal in that you seemed to read
a judgment into my statement, when I was trying to make as neutral
a statement as possible, avoiding loaded vocabulary like "tax
burden" or "tax freedom day".

There are multiple other issues with international comparisons.
E.g., the maximum income tax rate in the US is fairly high, but
very few people are affected by it. US & Canada have "tax
brackets", and I often see the marginal tax rate cited, which
doesn't compare to the one tax rate calculation in Germany.

What would be more interesting to me is the effective total income
tax rate at the median income point.
--
Who would know aught of art must learn and then take his ease.
Janet
2017-05-15 22:50:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Quinn C
I felt our communication wasn't optimal in that you seemed to read
a judgment into my statement, when I was trying to make as neutral
a statement as possible, avoiding loaded vocabulary like "tax
burden" or "tax freedom day".
There are multiple other issues with international comparisons.
E.g., the maximum income tax rate in the US is fairly high, but
very few people are affected by it. US & Canada have "tax
brackets", and I often see the marginal tax rate cited, which
doesn't compare to the one tax rate calculation in Germany.
What would be more interesting to me is the effective total income
tax rate at the median income point.
http://www.investopedia.com/taxes/countries-highest-income-taxes/

Janet
Peter Moylan
2017-05-16 10:12:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by Quinn C
I felt our communication wasn't optimal in that you seemed to read
a judgment into my statement, when I was trying to make as neutral
a statement as possible, avoiding loaded vocabulary like "tax
burden" or "tax freedom day".
There are multiple other issues with international comparisons.
E.g., the maximum income tax rate in the US is fairly high, but
very few people are affected by it. US & Canada have "tax
brackets", and I often see the marginal tax rate cited, which
doesn't compare to the one tax rate calculation in Germany.
What would be more interesting to me is the effective total income
tax rate at the median income point.
http://www.investopedia.com/taxes/countries-highest-income-taxes/
That gives averages, which certainly helps. I agree with Quinn, though,
that median income is a lot more meaningful than average income. The
super-rich distort the average too much, skewing our perception of what
is "average".

For a while I've been wondering why my own government has so little
compassion for ordinary people. (It's just released a budget in which
tax breaks for the very rich are funded by increasing taxes for everyone
else.) Now I begin to see that they too have been misled by their
interpretation of "average".
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Jerry Friedman
2017-05-18 21:39:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have
you heard that expression before, for this particular type
of an event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We
are ranked in the teens for highest personal income and
high only on paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is
before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations.
Not much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in
North America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of
tax rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in
the US. Lower taxes there are possible, in part, because the
taxpayer has to find money separately for doctoring.
Because "tax rate" means how much tax you pay, not how much it costs
in a country to pay for a certain list of services.
I don't recall seeing "tax rate" in your posting before this.
I use it somewhat abstractly as a scale for measuring how
highly-taxed a jurisdiction is. So it was implicit in the term
"highly-taxed".
Usually, it's only used in reference to one single tax.
Post by CDB
Above,
you speak of Quebec as the "highest-taxed jurisdiction in North America".
Politicians generally make a show of keeping taxes to a minimum.
Certainly they do so in both the US and Canada. It is possible to
reduce taxes further if you don't require the money for (say) universal
healthcare than if you do.
Of course, the question is much more complicated than that simple
opposition (all that US tax money spent on weapons, frex); but some such
adjustment is required, IMO, for useful comparison.
I felt our communication wasn't optimal in that you seemed to read
a judgment into my statement, when I was trying to make as neutral
a statement as possible, avoiding loaded vocabulary like "tax
burden" or "tax freedom day".
There are multiple other issues with international comparisons.
E.g., the maximum income tax rate in the US is fairly high, but
very few people are affected by it. US & Canada have "tax
brackets", and I often see the marginal tax rate cited, which
doesn't compare to the one tax rate calculation in Germany.
What would be more interesting to me is the effective total income
tax rate at the median income point.
For "most heavily taxed country", I'd be interested in total tax
revenue as a fraction of GDP.
--
Jerry Friedman
David Kleinecke
2017-05-19 02:11:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Trump: We're the highest-taxed nation in the world. Have
you heard that expression before, for this particular type
of an event?
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Also, we are not the highest taxed nation in the world. We
are ranked in the teens for highest personal income and
high only on paper for corporate tax since our 35% rate is
before deductions.
Definitely in the low range of big industrialized nations.
Not much point comparing to Monaco.
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in
North America.
You would have to deduct the cost of healthcare, for a good
comparison with US jusrisdictions.
For some kind of comparison, maybe, but not for a comparison of
tax rates.
Why not? Medical care is paid for out of taxes here, and not in
the US. Lower taxes there are possible, in part, because the
taxpayer has to find money separately for doctoring.
Because "tax rate" means how much tax you pay, not how much it costs
in a country to pay for a certain list of services.
I don't recall seeing "tax rate" in your posting before this.
I use it somewhat abstractly as a scale for measuring how
highly-taxed a jurisdiction is. So it was implicit in the term
"highly-taxed".
Usually, it's only used in reference to one single tax.
Post by CDB
Above,
you speak of Quebec as the "highest-taxed jurisdiction in North America".
Politicians generally make a show of keeping taxes to a minimum.
Certainly they do so in both the US and Canada. It is possible to
reduce taxes further if you don't require the money for (say) universal
healthcare than if you do.
Of course, the question is much more complicated than that simple
opposition (all that US tax money spent on weapons, frex); but some such
adjustment is required, IMO, for useful comparison.
I felt our communication wasn't optimal in that you seemed to read
a judgment into my statement, when I was trying to make as neutral
a statement as possible, avoiding loaded vocabulary like "tax
burden" or "tax freedom day".
There are multiple other issues with international comparisons.
E.g., the maximum income tax rate in the US is fairly high, but
very few people are affected by it. US & Canada have "tax
brackets", and I often see the marginal tax rate cited, which
doesn't compare to the one tax rate calculation in Germany.
What would be more interesting to me is the effective total income
tax rate at the median income point.
For "most heavily taxed country", I'd be interested in total tax
revenue as a fraction of GDP.
Including ALL levels of taxation? We would need a clear
definition of "tax". Is a tariff a tax? Tithes?

Charles Bishop
2017-05-16 00:01:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <ofcaek$22c$***@gioia.aioe.org>, CDB <***@gmail.com>
wrote:

[snip-taxes, and tax rates and death]
Post by CDB
Politicians generally make a show of keeping taxes to a minimum.
Certainly they do so in both the US and Canada. It is possible to
reduce taxes further if you don't require the money for (say) universal
healthcare than if you do.
Politicians keep taxes to a minimum by having many different taxes. If
there was one "admission charge" to enter a country or perhaps "yearly
fee" to stay, then perhaps taxes wouldn't be so high.

charles, opinion, of course
Don Phillipson
2017-05-13 17:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Quinn C
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
We had not supposed earlier that this poster lived in Quebec.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Peter T. Daniels
2017-05-13 19:15:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Quinn C
I'm writing to you from the highest-taxed jurisdiction in North
America.
We had not supposed earlier that this poster lived in Quebec.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
We hadn't?? It's not like he's been coy about it. He frequently writes of
goings-on in Montreal.
RH Draney
2017-05-13 00:13:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Interviewer: Priming the pump?
Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it a couple of days ago and
I thought it was good. It's what you have to do.
I will release my tax returns to the press if anyone can prove that
Trump has ever in his life had to get water from a pump....r
Richard Yates
2017-05-13 05:00:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by RH Draney
Post by Tony Cooper
Interviewer: Priming the pump?
Trump: Yeah, have you heard it?
Interviewer: Yes.
Trump: Have you heard that expression used before? Because I haven't
heard it. I mean, I just...I came up with it a couple of days ago and
I thought it was good. It's what you have to do.
I will release my tax returns to the press if anyone can prove that
Trump has ever in his life had to get water from a pump....r
Champagne is mostly water and he has certainly drunk it from one of
these: http://tinyurl.com/n42t23x

Where will we be able to see the returns?
RH Draney
2017-05-13 09:49:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Richard Yates
Post by RH Draney
I will release my tax returns to the press if anyone can prove that
Trump has ever in his life had to get water from a pump....r
Champagne is mostly water and he has certainly drunk it from one of
these: http://tinyurl.com/n42t23x
Trump doesn't drink...which means he's doing all those 3am Tweets
*sober*!...r
Rich Ulrich
2017-05-13 17:55:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by RH Draney
Post by Richard Yates
Post by RH Draney
I will release my tax returns to the press if anyone can prove that
Trump has ever in his life had to get water from a pump....r
Champagne is mostly water and he has certainly drunk it from one of
these: http://tinyurl.com/n42t23x
Trump doesn't drink...which means he's doing all those 3am Tweets
*sober*!...r
Trump would score high on Eysenk's Extraversion dimension.

Googling doesn't give me clear references, but after I had a friend
with the problem 40 years ago, I noticed mentions that alcohol is apt
to be toxic for people with extreme extraversion, driving them over
some boundary into real craziness.

I figure that Trump learned not to drink because it must be even
more toxic for someone who crosses into that sort of extraverted
craziness on his own.
--
Rich Ulrich
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