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after her third marriage to
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a***@gmail.com
2017-08-10 06:37:24 UTC
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1) She left England after her third marriage, to Thomas Smith.
2) She left England after her third marriage to Thomas Smith.

Which would be correctly punctuated if her third marriage was her first marriage
to Thomas Smith?

Gratefully,
Navi.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-08-10 06:59:56 UTC
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Post by a***@gmail.com
1) She left England after her third marriage, to Thomas Smith.
2) She left England after her third marriage to Thomas Smith.
Which would be correctly punctuated if her third marriage was her first marriage
to Thomas Smith?
(1), not (2). But (1) isn't perfect either: She left England after her
third marriage, when she married Thomas Smith.

(2) would imply that she married Thomas Smith three times, which isn't
impossible but would be very unusual. Elizabeth Taylor married Richard
Burton twice, and there may be other examples, but I don't know of any
examples of marrying the same person three times.
--
athel
Mark Brader
2017-08-10 07:18:28 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by a***@gmail.com
1) She left England after her third marriage, to Thomas Smith.
2) She left England after her third marriage to Thomas Smith.
Which would be correctly punctuated if her third marriage was her first
marriage to Thomas Smith?
(1), not (2).
Agreed.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
But (1) isn't perfect either...
I see nothing wrong with it.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
She left England after her third marriage, when she married Thomas Smith.
To me "when" is slightly wrong; it suggests that the marriage to T.S.
happened *at the same time* as one of the events in the first part of
the sentence, and makes me wonder if that was her *fourth* marriage,
occurring after the third one was finished.

If I wanted a longer wording than the original, I might say "the one
to T.S." or "the one where she married T.S."
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
(2) would imply that she married Thomas Smith three times, which isn't
impossible but would be very unusual. Elizabeth Taylor married Richard
Burton twice, and there may be other examples, but I don't know of any
examples of marrying the same person three times.
Just for fun I googled on the phrase "married the same person three times".
Most of the hits either don't refer to specific people or else refer to
multiple ceremonies solemnizing (or attempting to solemnize) the same
marriage, or you can't tell whether they meant that. But this one seems
to be a bona fide example, though it does not name the people involved:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fighting-fear/201304/why-some-people-cant-find-anyone-marry
--
Mark Brader | "Of course, the most important part of making the
Toronto | proposal something special for both of you is
***@vex.net | addressing it to the right person." --Mara Chibnik

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Don Phillipson
2017-08-11 19:21:45 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by a***@gmail.com
1) She left England after her third marriage, to Thomas Smith.
2) She left England after her third marriage to Thomas Smith.
Which would be correctly punctuated if her third marriage was her first
marriage to Thomas Smith?
(1), not (2).
Agreed.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
But (1) isn't perfect either...
I see nothing wrong with it.
The next dozen lines (snipped) seem to contradict this judgment.
It would have been safer to write either
She left England after marrying her third husband, Thomas Smith
(the likely meaning)
or
She left England after marrying Thomas Smith for the third time.
(logically possible, yet ultra-rare.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-08-12 07:09:31 UTC
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Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by a***@gmail.com
1) She left England after her third marriage, to Thomas Smith.
2) She left England after her third marriage to Thomas Smith.
Which would be correctly punctuated if her third marriage was her first
marriage to Thomas Smith?
(1), not (2).
Agreed.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
But (1) isn't perfect either...
I see nothing wrong with it.
The next dozen lines (snipped) seem to contradict this judgment.
It would have been safer to write either
She left England after marrying her third husband, Thomas Smith
(the likely meaning)
or
She left England after marrying Thomas Smith for the third time.
(logically possible, yet ultra-rare.)
Thank you. That's pretty much what I was thinking, but I didn't get
around to formulating it.
--
athel
Mark Brader
2017-08-13 06:06:52 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by a***@gmail.com
1) She left England after her third marriage, to Thomas Smith.
2) She left England after her third marriage to Thomas Smith.
Which would be correctly punctuated if her third marriage was her first
marriage to Thomas Smith?
(1), not (2).
Agreed.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
But (1) isn't perfect either...
I see nothing wrong with it.
The next dozen lines (snipped) seem to contradict this judgment.
That makes no sense, as nothing in the snipped lines was about (1).
What I was saying was that Athel's suggestion was worse than the
original, not better, in my opinion.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Don Phillipson
It would have been safer to write either
She left England after marrying her third husband, Thomas Smith
(the likely meaning)
or
She left England after marrying Thomas Smith for the third time.
(logically possible, yet ultra-rare.)
Thank you. That's pretty much what I was thinking, but I didn't get
around to formulating it.
I agree that Don's suggestions are better then the originals.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Where do you want Microsoft to go today?"
***@vex.net -- Rick Ross

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-08-13 06:32:40 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by a***@gmail.com
1) She left England after her third marriage, to Thomas Smith.
2) She left England after her third marriage to Thomas Smith.
Which would be correctly punctuated if her third marriage was her first
marriage to Thomas Smith?
(1), not (2).
Agreed.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
But (1) isn't perfect either...
I see nothing wrong with it.
The next dozen lines (snipped) seem to contradict this judgment.
That makes no sense, as nothing in the snipped lines was about (1).
What I was saying was that Athel's suggestion was worse than the
original, not better, in my opinion.
I'm not sure what you think my suggestion was: I thought you had
already agreed that (1) was better than (2). Just saying than (1) isn't
perfect hardly constitutes a "suggestion".
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Don Phillipson
It would have been safer to write either
She left England after marrying her third husband, Thomas Smith
(the likely meaning)
or
She left England after marrying Thomas Smith for the third time.
(logically possible, yet ultra-rare.)
Thank you. That's pretty much what I was thinking, but I didn't get
around to formulating it.
I agree that Don's suggestions are better then the originals.
--
athel
Mark Brader
2017-08-13 06:56:12 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
What I was saying was that Athel's suggestion was worse than the
original, not better, in my opinion.
I'm not sure what you think my suggestion was...
I took you to be suggesting "She left England after her third marriage,
when she married Thomas Smith" as an improvement.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "Just because it's correct doesn't
***@vex.net make it right!" -- Jonas Schlein
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-08-13 10:44:58 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Mark Brader
What I was saying was that Athel's suggestion was worse than the
original, not better, in my opinion.
I'm not sure what you think my suggestion was...
I took you to be suggesting "She left England after her third marriage,
when she married Thomas Smith" as an improvement.
Gosh. It would never have occurred to me to expect that interpretation.
--
athel
Mark Brader
2017-08-13 19:22:13 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Mark Brader
What I was saying was that Athel's suggestion was worse than the
original, not better, in my opinion.
I'm not sure what you think my suggestion was...
I took you to be suggesting "She left England after her third marriage,
when she married Thomas Smith" as an improvement.
Gosh. It would never have occurred to me to expect that interpretation.
Then I'm not sure what you meant by writing that version. Anyway, sorry
for the misinterpretation.
--
Mark Brader | "Grammar am for people who can't think for *myself*.
Toronto | Understanded me?"
***@vex.net | -- Buck (Get Fuzzy: Darby Conley)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-08-13 19:58:33 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Mark Brader
What I was saying was that Athel's suggestion was worse than the
original, not better, in my opinion.
I'm not sure what you think my suggestion was...
I took you to be suggesting "She left England after her third marriage,
when she married Thomas Smith" as an improvement.
Gosh. It would never have occurred to me to expect that interpretation.
Then I'm not sure what you meant by writing that version. Anyway, sorry
for the misinterpretation.
What I remember writing is "But (1) isn't perfect either...". I have no
recollection of writing "She left England after her third marriage,
when she married Thomas Smith". (If I did, remind me.) You seem to be
reading as much into "isn't perfect" as when "Upharsin" was interpreted
as "Thy kingdom will be divided and given to the Medes and Persians".



 
--
athel
Mark Brader
2017-08-13 20:13:31 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
(If I did, remind me.)
Read back in the thread if you like, or not, if you don't like.
--
Mark Brader | "Which humans of that time did here whether this place
Toronto | was cult place already at that time, extracts itself
***@vex.net | from our knowledge." --from a web site for tourists
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-08-14 05:23:49 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
(If I did, remind me.)
Read back in the thread if you like, or not, if you don't like.
Yes. You're right, and I'm amazed, both that I wrote it and that I
thought it was better. I was probably thinking of something else.
--
athel
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