Discussion:
Yanny or Laurel? An oddity
(too old to reply)
occam
2018-05-16 09:57:01 UTC
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"Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "

More:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments

I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
tried to make out the other sound.
soup
2018-05-16 10:07:21 UTC
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On 16/05/2018 10:57, occam wrote:

> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> tried to make out the other sound.
>
+1

55 So even older than the professor. And my hearing is not as good as
it was, still only hear "Laurel".
TBH can't even make out any other sounds that could be misconstrued.
Ross
2018-05-16 10:51:51 UTC
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On Wednesday, May 16, 2018 at 10:07:22 PM UTC+12, soup wrote:
> On 16/05/2018 10:57, occam wrote:
>
> > I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> > tried to make out the other sound.
> >
> +1
>
> 55 So even older than the professor. And my hearing is not as good as
> it was, still only hear "Laurel".
> TBH can't even make out any other sounds that could be misconstrued.

This at least gives some evidence of having asked several people
who should know something. Though their headline "Science doesn't
quite know..." and subhead "Ten experts came up with four different
explanations" could be paraphrased "There's more than one reason,
and here they are":

https://www.cnet.com/news/yanny-laurel-audio-hearing-science-behind-why/

My wife and I heard exactly the same version of it, coming out of our TV,
this evening. She got "Yanny", I got "Laurel". (We're roughly the same age.)
It is like an optical-illusion drawing (rabbit or duck?), but it's remarkably polarizing. I would like to know more about it, but the Internet seems intent
on treating it like a beauty contest. Who is Cloe Feldman? A quick search tells me that she's an "internet star" who is famous for....this. Since yesterday. Perhaps it's prejudice, but I am pretty sure she did not create "Yanny/Laurel". Who did?
Richard Tobin
2018-05-16 10:20:54 UTC
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In article <***@mid.individual.net>, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
>"Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
>psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
>ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>
>More:
>https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>
>I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>tried to make out the other sound.

Try playing it on different devices (which have different frequency
responses). On my desktop computer I hear "laurel", on a mobile phone
"yeary". Presumably you are more likely to be able to deliberately
change what you hear on some device than on others.

-- Richard
occam
2018-05-16 10:51:17 UTC
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On 16/05/2018 12:20, Richard Tobin wrote:
> In article <***@mid.individual.net>, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
>> ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>>
>> More:
>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>
>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>> tried to make out the other sound.
>
> Try playing it on different devices (which have different frequency
> responses). On my desktop computer I hear "laurel", on a mobile phone
> "yeary". Presumably you are more likely to be able to deliberately
> change what you hear on some device than on others.
>

Yes, lower down the article Steve Pomeroy has done the suggested
frequency transformations. The first two do not sound like 'Laurel'


" Steve Pomeroy (@xxv)

Ok, so if you pitch-shift it you can hear different things:

down 30%: https://t.co/F5WCUZQJlq
down 20%: https://t.co/CLhY5tvnC1
up 20%: https://t.co/zAc7HomuCS
up 30% https://t.co/JdNUILOvFW
up 40% https://t.co/8VTkjXo3L1 https://t.co/suSw6AmLtn
"
Quinn C
2018-05-16 15:58:00 UTC
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* occam:

> On 16/05/2018 12:20, Richard Tobin wrote:
>> In article <***@mid.individual.net>, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
>>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
>>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
>>> ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>>>
>>> More:
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>>
>>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>>> tried to make out the other sound.
>>
>> Try playing it on different devices (which have different frequency
>> responses). On my desktop computer I hear "laurel", on a mobile phone
>> "yeary". Presumably you are more likely to be able to deliberately
>> change what you hear on some device than on others.
>>
>
> Yes, lower down the article Steve Pomeroy has done the suggested
> frequency transformations. The first two do not sound like 'Laurel'
>
> " Steve Pomeroy (@xxv)
>
> Ok, so if you pitch-shift it you can hear different things:
>
> down 30%: https://t.co/F5WCUZQJlq
> down 20%: https://t.co/CLhY5tvnC1
> up 20%: https://t.co/zAc7HomuCS
> up 30% https://t.co/JdNUILOvFW
> up 40% https://t.co/8VTkjXo3L1 https://t.co/suSw6AmLtn
> "

OK, I hear "yally" for the first two. Everything else that was
presented sounded like "laurel", but I only tested it with good
headphones (plugged into an active speaker plugged into the laptop.)

I may not be very susceptible to hearing "Yanny" because that's no more
familiar to me than "yally", or the other things I could make myself
hear when I tried, like, unsurprisingly, "lauro". But for the "au" to
become anything else to me, it needed the pitch-shift.

--
It gets hot in Raleigh, but Texas! I don't know why anybody
lives here, honestly.
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.220
Madhu
2018-05-16 12:03:42 UTC
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* (Richard Tobin) <pdh0m6$2rt5$***@macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk> :
Wrote on Wed, 16 May 2018 10:20:54 +0000 (UTC):

> Try playing it on different devices (which have different frequency
> responses). On my desktop computer I hear "laurel", on a mobile phone
> "yeary". Presumably you are more likely to be able to deliberately
> change what you hear on some device than on others.

I didn't check it (as I don't use youtube) but I think this might be an
internet hoax: someone reported hearing a different version when
reloading the same page on youtube.
the Omrud
2018-05-16 15:49:11 UTC
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On 16/05/2018 13:03, Madhu wrote:
>
> * (Richard Tobin) <pdh0m6$2rt5$***@macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk> :
> Wrote on Wed, 16 May 2018 10:20:54 +0000 (UTC):
>
>> Try playing it on different devices (which have different frequency
>> responses). On my desktop computer I hear "laurel", on a mobile phone
>> "yeary". Presumably you are more likely to be able to deliberately
>> change what you hear on some device than on others.
>
> I didn't check it (as I don't use youtube) but I think this might be an
> internet hoax: someone reported hearing a different version when
> reloading the same page on youtube.

It's unlikely the Guardian would report it without checking.

--
David

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CDB
2018-05-16 11:04:24 UTC
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On 5/16/2018 5:57 AM, occam wrote:

> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a
> “perceptually ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the
> face/vase illusion. "

> More:
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments

I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> tried to make out the other sound.

Using headphones, in dozens of repetitions I sometimes heard what
sounded like two voices speaking at once, "laurel" and something that
began with a [j] sound, or occasionally a bit more -- "yaura", maybe.

Given my age and that of most regulars, I wonder if an ability to hear
high-pitched sounds is involved.

And speaking of RRs, is there a prize for being the first to hear the
name of one?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-16 12:38:09 UTC
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On 2018-05-16 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> said:

> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
> ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>
> More:
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments

I
>
> have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> tried to make out the other sound.

Me too.


--
athel
Percival P. Cassidy
2018-05-16 13:40:08 UTC
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On 05/16/2018 05:57 AM, occam wrote:

> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
> ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>
> More:
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>
> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> tried to make out the other sound.

Listening on my tablet and with my hearing aids in their normal mode,
this "Old Fart" heard neither "Laurel" nor "Yanny": I heard "Valerie"
the first time and maybe more like "Hillary" the second time.

Perce
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2018-05-16 13:41:48 UTC
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On 5/16/2018 2:57 AM, occam wrote:
> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
> ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>
> More:
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>
> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> tried to make out the other sound.
>

You must lead a boring life.
Cheetah99218
2018-05-16 14:17:43 UTC
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On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:

>"Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
>psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
>ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>
>More:
>https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>
>I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>tried to make out the other sound.

Thanks for posting this interesting link.

I heard Yanny until I went to the links that raised the pitch, then I
heard Laurel. I am 88.
Cheryl
2018-05-16 14:47:56 UTC
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On 2018-05-16 11:47 AM, Cheetah99218 wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
>
>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
>> ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>>
>> More:
>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>
>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>> tried to make out the other sound.
>
> Thanks for posting this interesting link.
>
> I heard Yanny until I went to the links that raised the pitch, then I
> heard Laurel. I am 88.
>

All I could hear was Laurel - on any setting.

--
Cheryl
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-05-16 15:41:48 UTC
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On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:

>"Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
>psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
>ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>
>More:
>https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>
>I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>tried to make out the other sound.

Me too.

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
the Omrud
2018-05-16 15:54:26 UTC
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On 16/05/2018 16:41, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
>
>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
>> ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>>
>> More:
>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>
>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>> tried to make out the other sound.
>
> Me too.

I can only hear Yanny. Weird.

--
David

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Katy Jennison
2018-05-16 16:48:04 UTC
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On 16/05/2018 16:54, the Omrud wrote:
> On 16/05/2018 16:41, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
>>
>>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
>>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
>>> ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>>>
>>> More:
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>>
>>>
>>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>>> tried to make out the other sound.
>>
>> Me too.
>
> I can only hear Yanny.  Weird.
>

Same here.

Perhaps there are actually two different recordings, randomly distributed.

--
Katy Jennison
Richard Tobin
2018-05-16 17:01:39 UTC
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In article <pdhnc3$fv6$***@news.albasani.net>,
Katy Jennison <***@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:

>Perhaps there are actually two different recordings, randomly distributed.

No, I have listened to it with other people, and different people
hear different things.

-- Richard
pensive hamster
2018-05-16 17:15:56 UTC
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On Wednesday, 16 May 2018 18:05:03 UTC+1, Richard Tobin wrote:
> In article <pdhnc3$fv6$***@news.albasani.net>,
> Katy Jennison <***@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>
> >Perhaps there are actually two different recordings, randomly distributed.
>
> No, I have listened to it with other people, and different people
> hear different things.

Listening to this version:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-44136799

I hear something like "yearay", not "yanny" or "laurel".
Richard Yates
2018-05-16 19:42:27 UTC
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On Wed, 16 May 2018 10:15:56 -0700 (PDT), pensive hamster
<***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wednesday, 16 May 2018 18:05:03 UTC+1, Richard Tobin wrote:
>> In article <pdhnc3$fv6$***@news.albasani.net>,
>> Katy Jennison <***@spamtrap.kjennison.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Perhaps there are actually two different recordings, randomly distributed.
>>
>> No, I have listened to it with other people, and different people
>> hear different things.
>
>Listening to this version:
>
>http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-44136799
>
>I hear something like "yearay", not "yanny" or "laurel".

A New York Times page today has a version with a slider that
progressively raises or lowers the pitch. Going down from the middle
(where I always hear 'laurel") I hear "yanny" only when getting near
the lower end, but then I can gradually increase the slider and still
hear "yanny" until close to the middle.

When I hear "yanny" I seem to ignore a lower growl during the second
syllable that is just extraneous noise.

It is like Scott Kim's ambigrams where some curlicues are meaningful
and others merely decorative, depending on what pattern you latch
onto.
Janet
2018-05-17 00:57:15 UTC
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In article <TuYKC.225069$***@fx23.am4>, ***@gmail.com
says...
>
> On 16/05/2018 16:41, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> > On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
> >
> >> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney?s school of
> >> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a ?perceptually
> >> ambiguous stimulus? such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
> >>
> >> More:
> >> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
> >>
> >> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> >> tried to make out the other sound.
> >
> > Me too.
>
> I can only hear Yanny. Weird.

On the BBC News at 6pm, it was claimed that people whose hearing
picks up high frequencies hear Yanny (two of the presenters did).

I know my high frequency hearing has declined (I can't hear bats any
more). I'm hearing Laurel.

Janet

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occam
2018-05-17 10:17:56 UTC
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On 17/05/2018 02:57, Janet wrote:
> In article <TuYKC.225069$***@fx23.am4>, ***@gmail.com
> says...
>>
>> On 16/05/2018 16:41, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney?s school of
>>>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a ?perceptually
>>>> ambiguous stimulus? such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>>>>
>>>> More:
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>>>
>>>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>>>> tried to make out the other sound.
>>>
>>> Me too.
>>
>> I can only hear Yanny. Weird.
>
> On the BBC News at 6pm, it was claimed that people whose hearing
> picks up high frequencies hear Yanny (two of the presenters did).
>
> I know my high frequency hearing has declined (I can't hear bats any
> more). I'm hearing Laurel.
>

That's interesting. When I call out to my dog (renown for good HF
hearing) I wonder what he hears when I say "Come Harvey, come here boy" ?
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-05-17 10:38:30 UTC
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On Thursday, 17 May 2018 11:17:59 UTC+1, occam wrote:
> On 17/05/2018 02:57, Janet wrote:
> > In article <TuYKC.225069$***@fx23.am4>, ***@gmail.com
> > says...
> >>
> >> On 16/05/2018 16:41, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney?s school of
> >>>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a ?perceptually
> >>>> ambiguous stimulus? such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
> >>>>
> >>>> More:
> >>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
> >>>>
> >>>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> >>>> tried to make out the other sound.
> >>>
> >>> Me too.
> >>
> >> I can only hear Yanny. Weird.
> >
> > On the BBC News at 6pm, it was claimed that people whose hearing
> > picks up high frequencies hear Yanny (two of the presenters did).
> >
> > I know my high frequency hearing has declined (I can't hear bats any
> > more). I'm hearing Laurel.
> >
>
> That's interesting. When I call out to my dog (renown for good HF
> hearing) I wonder what he hears when I say "Come Harvey, come here boy" ?

He hears a demented yelping that suggests something interesting may be
going on in your locality. It's not what you say it's the way that you say it.
Janet
2018-05-17 12:18:15 UTC
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In article <3b8f4641-df2e-4fd6-adc8-***@googlegroups.com>,
***@googlemail.com says...
>
> On Thursday, 17 May 2018 11:17:59 UTC+1, occam wrote:
> > On 17/05/2018 02:57, Janet wrote:
> > > In article <TuYKC.225069$***@fx23.am4>, ***@gmail.com
> > > says...
> > >>
> > >> On 16/05/2018 16:41, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> > >>> On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney?s school of
> > >>>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a ?perceptually
> > >>>> ambiguous stimulus? such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
> > >>>>
> > >>>> More:
> > >>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> > >>>> tried to make out the other sound.
> > >>>
> > >>> Me too.
> > >>
> > >> I can only hear Yanny. Weird.
> > >
> > > On the BBC News at 6pm, it was claimed that people whose hearing
> > > picks up high frequencies hear Yanny (two of the presenters did).
> > >
> > > I know my high frequency hearing has declined (I can't hear bats any
> > > more). I'm hearing Laurel.
> > >
> >
> > That's interesting. When I call out to my dog (renown for good HF
> > hearing) I wonder what he hears when I say "Come Harvey, come here boy" ?
>
> He hears a demented yelping that suggests something interesting may be
> going on in your locality. It's not what you say it's the way that you say it.

We once had a GS cross collie dog who understood over a hundred
words; (many assistance dogs do the same).

Here's Chaser, the dog which can identify over a thousand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi8HFdPMsiM

Janet.

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Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-05-17 12:34:00 UTC
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On Thursday, 17 May 2018 13:18:18 UTC+1, Janet wrote:
> In article <3b8f4641-df2e-4fd6-adc8-***@googlegroups.com>,
> ***@googlemail.com says...
> >
> > On Thursday, 17 May 2018 11:17:59 UTC+1, occam wrote:
> > > On 17/05/2018 02:57, Janet wrote:
> > > > In article <TuYKC.225069$***@fx23.am4>, ***@gmail.com
> > > > says...
> > > >>
> > > >> On 16/05/2018 16:41, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> > > >>> On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney?s school of
> > > >>>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a ?perceptually
> > > >>>> ambiguous stimulus? such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> More:
> > > >>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> > > >>>> tried to make out the other sound.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Me too.
> > > >>
> > > >> I can only hear Yanny. Weird.
> > > >
> > > > On the BBC News at 6pm, it was claimed that people whose hearing
> > > > picks up high frequencies hear Yanny (two of the presenters did).
> > > >
> > > > I know my high frequency hearing has declined (I can't hear bats any
> > > > more). I'm hearing Laurel.
> > > >
> > >
> > > That's interesting. When I call out to my dog (renown for good HF
> > > hearing) I wonder what he hears when I say "Come Harvey, come here boy" ?
> >
> > He hears a demented yelping that suggests something interesting may be
> > going on in your locality. It's not what you say it's the way that you say it.
>
> We once had a GS cross collie dog who understood over a hundred
> words; (many assistance dogs do the same).
>
> Here's Chaser, the dog which can identify over a thousand.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi8HFdPMsiM
>

I won't attempt to deny that they can be taught to distinguish specific
words. I just rather doubt that Harvey has spent the time required to
so train his pooch.
Peter Moylan
2018-05-18 02:33:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 17/05/18 22:18, Janet wrote:
> In article <3b8f4641-df2e-4fd6-adc8-***@googlegroups.com>,
> ***@googlemail.com says...
>>
>> On Thursday, 17 May 2018 11:17:59 UTC+1, occam wrote:

>>> That's interesting. When I call out to my dog (renown for good
>>> HF hearing) I wonder what he hears when I say "Come Harvey,
>>> come here boy" ?
>>
>> He hears a demented yelping that suggests something interesting may
>> be going on in your locality. It's not what you say it's the way
>> that you say it.
>
> We once had a GS cross collie dog who understood over a hundred
> words; (many assistance dogs do the same).
>
> Here's Chaser, the dog which can identify over a thousand.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi8HFdPMsiM

I've tried to teach English to my cats, with disappointing results. I
did manage to get Basil to learn the command "jump"; that was necessary
because he so often sits on an inconvenient arm of my armchair when I'm
sitting in it. "Jump" gets him to move to the other arm. (But then, half
the time, he immediately jumps back.)

The major success with both cats is that they have learnt that "puss,
puss, puss" means "tuna".

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
2018-05-18 03:22:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 10:33:05 PM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:

> The major success with both cats is that they have learnt that "puss,
> puss, puss" means "tuna".

Hmm. Most cats learn that "sound of can opener" means 'tuna' (or the like).
RH Draney
2018-05-18 04:51:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 5/17/2018 7:33 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> I've tried to teach English to my cats, with disappointing results. I
> did manage to get Basil to learn the command "jump"; that was necessary
> because he so often sits on an inconvenient arm of my armchair when I'm
> sitting in it. "Jump" gets him to move to the other arm. (But then, half
> the time, he immediately jumps back.)
>
> The major success with both cats is that they have learnt that "puss,
> puss, puss" means "tuna".

My grandfather's cat knew what the word "tail" referred to, even when
asleep, and even though he only had half of his...Yen would sleep in
Grandpa's lap with his hemicaudal appendage extended, and Grandpa would
whisper "I'm gonna git his tail", whereupon Yen would curl it around his
as well as the amputation allowed....

Yen's "cousin" Yang knew that my stepfather's name was Ralph, and could
pronounce it well enough to call him to service at filling up the food
dish....r
Cheryl
2018-05-18 10:29:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-05-18 12:03 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 17/05/18 22:18, Janet wrote:
>> In article <3b8f4641-df2e-4fd6-adc8-***@googlegroups.com>,
>> ***@googlemail.com says...
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 17 May 2018 11:17:59 UTC+1, occam  wrote:
>
>>>> That's interesting.  When I call out to my dog (renown for good
>>>> HF hearing)  I wonder what  he hears when I say "Come Harvey,
>>>> come here boy" ?
>>>
>>> He hears a demented yelping that suggests something interesting may
>>> be going on in your locality. It's not what you say it's the way
>>> that you say it.
>>
>> We once had a GS cross collie dog who understood over a hundred
>> words; (many assistance dogs do the same).
>>
>> Here's Chaser, the dog which can identify  over a thousand.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi8HFdPMsiM
>
> I've tried to teach English to my cats, with disappointing results. I
> did manage to get Basil to learn the command "jump"; that was necessary
> because he so often sits on an inconvenient arm of my armchair when I'm
> sitting in it. "Jump" gets him to move to the other arm. (But then, half
> the time, he immediately jumps back.)
>
> The major success with both cats is that they have learnt that "puss,
> puss, puss" means "tuna".
>
I've noticed that my cats substitute sheer bloody-minded persistence for
intelligence. At least, that's my definition of what they do when they
know perfectly well that I am indicating that I want to sit in the most
comfortable chair in the place, but they won't move. Or they get back in
it approximately 0.0005 seconds after I get up.

One of my cats is, according to the vet, a little on the large size and
needs to lose weight. Allowing only carefully-measured amounts of food
(and knowing that cat #2 swipes some of it) doesn't make the slightest
difference. Maybe she sleeps more so as to need less food and maintain
the weight that the vet doesn't like. Anyway, the other way to deal with
weight is to increase exercise, so I periodically get new cat toys to
tempt them into movement. I have my doubts about the type of toy that
uses food to get them to move more. One of the treat balls is on a
little stand. The cat that uses it most doesn't seem to understand - or
be capable of learning - that you have to swat to ball in a particular
way to spin it on the stand so that the food will come out. She just
swats more or less randomly at the ball and the stand. Nevertheless, all
the food disappears from the ball in about 12 hours. Persistence, that
is, not intelligence.

--
Cheryl
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-05-18 11:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Friday, 18 May 2018 11:29:26 UTC+1, Cheryl P wrote:
> On 2018-05-18 12:03 AM, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 17/05/18 22:18, Janet wrote:
> >> In article <3b8f4641-df2e-4fd6-adc8-***@googlegroups.com>,
> >> ***@googlemail.com says...
> >>>
> >>> On Thursday, 17 May 2018 11:17:59 UTC+1, occam  wrote:
> >
> >>>> That's interesting.  When I call out to my dog (renown for good
> >>>> HF hearing)  I wonder what  he hears when I say "Come Harvey,
> >>>> come here boy" ?
> >>>
> >>> He hears a demented yelping that suggests something interesting may
> >>> be going on in your locality. It's not what you say it's the way
> >>> that you say it.
> >>
> >> We once had a GS cross collie dog who understood over a hundred
> >> words; (many assistance dogs do the same).
> >>
> >> Here's Chaser, the dog which can identify  over a thousand.
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi8HFdPMsiM
> >
> > I've tried to teach English to my cats, with disappointing results. I
> > did manage to get Basil to learn the command "jump"; that was necessary
> > because he so often sits on an inconvenient arm of my armchair when I'm
> > sitting in it. "Jump" gets him to move to the other arm. (But then, half
> > the time, he immediately jumps back.)
> >
> > The major success with both cats is that they have learnt that "puss,
> > puss, puss" means "tuna".
> >
> I've noticed that my cats substitute sheer bloody-minded persistence for
> intelligence. At least, that's my definition of what they do when they
> know perfectly well that I am indicating that I want to sit in the most
> comfortable chair in the place, but they won't move. Or they get back in
> it approximately 0.0005 seconds after I get up.
>
> One of my cats is, according to the vet, a little on the large size and
> needs to lose weight. Allowing only carefully-measured amounts of food
> (and knowing that cat #2 swipes some of it) doesn't make the slightest
> difference. Maybe she sleeps more so as to need less food and maintain
> the weight that the vet doesn't like. Anyway, the other way to deal with
> weight is to increase exercise, so I periodically get new cat toys to
> tempt them into movement. I have my doubts about the type of toy that
> uses food to get them to move more. One of the treat balls is on a
> little stand. The cat that uses it most doesn't seem to understand - or
> be capable of learning - that you have to swat to ball in a particular
> way to spin it on the stand so that the food will come out. She just
> swats more or less randomly at the ball and the stand. Nevertheless, all
> the food disappears from the ball in about 12 hours. Persistence, that
> is, not intelligence.
>
Ah, I see you are among the many millions that has failed to realise
that the cat is actually conducting sophisticated psychological studies
on you in order to add to the huge database of human dumbness that
ensures that when the revolution comes it will be a swift and decisive
victory for the Felidae!
J. J. Lodder
2018-05-20 13:10:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Peter Moylan <***@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 17/05/18 22:18, Janet wrote:
> > In article <3b8f4641-df2e-4fd6-adc8-***@googlegroups.com>,
> > ***@googlemail.com says...
> >>
> >> On Thursday, 17 May 2018 11:17:59 UTC+1, occam wrote:
>
> >>> That's interesting. When I call out to my dog (renown for good
> >>> HF hearing) I wonder what he hears when I say "Come Harvey,
> >>> come here boy" ?
> >>
> >> He hears a demented yelping that suggests something interesting may
> >> be going on in your locality. It's not what you say it's the way
> >> that you say it.
> >
> > We once had a GS cross collie dog who understood over a hundred
> > words; (many assistance dogs do the same).
> >
> > Here's Chaser, the dog which can identify over a thousand.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi8HFdPMsiM
>
> I've tried to teach English to my cats, with disappointing results. I
> did manage to get Basil to learn the command "jump"; that was necessary
> because he so often sits on an inconvenient arm of my armchair when I'm
> sitting in it. "Jump" gets him to move to the other arm. (But then, half
> the time, he immediately jumps back.)
>
> The major success with both cats is that they have learnt that "puss,
> puss, puss" means "tuna".

An Anglo-Dutch couple, Sarah Hart and Rudy Kousbroek
cracked the mystery of speaking catish long ago,
and they produced a convenient phrasebook for it.
The catish section is phonetic so you should have no problem with it.
<https://www.bol.com/nl/p/wat-en-hoe-in-het-het-kats/1001004010933335/?s
uggestionType=browse>

Jan
Anders D. Nygaard
2018-05-23 21:58:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Den 18-05-2018 kl. 04:33 skrev Peter Moylan:
> [...]
> I've tried to teach English to my cats, [...]
> The major success with both cats is that they have learnt that "puss,
> puss, puss" means "tuna".

AusE is stranger than I imagined.

/Anders, Denmark.
occam
2018-05-18 07:06:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 17/05/2018 14:18, Janet wrote:
> In article <3b8f4641-df2e-4fd6-adc8-***@googlegroups.com>,
> ***@googlemail.com says...
>>
>> On Thursday, 17 May 2018 11:17:59 UTC+1, occam wrote:
>>> On 17/05/2018 02:57, Janet wrote:
>>>> In article <TuYKC.225069$***@fx23.am4>, ***@gmail.com
>>>> says...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 16/05/2018 16:41, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney?s school of
>>>>>>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a ?perceptually
>>>>>>> ambiguous stimulus? such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More:
>>>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>>>>>>> tried to make out the other sound.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Me too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can only hear Yanny. Weird.
>>>>
>>>> On the BBC News at 6pm, it was claimed that people whose hearing
>>>> picks up high frequencies hear Yanny (two of the presenters did).
>>>>
>>>> I know my high frequency hearing has declined (I can't hear bats any
>>>> more). I'm hearing Laurel.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's interesting. When I call out to my dog (renown for good HF
>>> hearing) I wonder what he hears when I say "Come Harvey, come here boy" ?
>>
>> He hears a demented yelping that suggests something interesting may be
>> going on in your locality. It's not what you say it's the way that you say it.
>
> We once had a GS cross collie dog who understood over a hundred
> words; (many assistance dogs do the same).
>
> Here's Chaser, the dog which can identify over a thousand.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi8HFdPMsiM
>

Perhaps - but my point was, are the thousand words she 'understands' the
same ones we bark at her? I doubt it. The mapping of the words we utter
onto the words they hear will be different for different speakers. If a
high pitched person shouts the same order to your dog, will she obey? (I
apologize for assuming your dog is a 'she' - I realise it is a bitch of
an assumption.)
Richard Yates
2018-05-18 12:01:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 18 May 2018 09:06:06 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:

>On 17/05/2018 14:18, Janet wrote:
>> In article <3b8f4641-df2e-4fd6-adc8-***@googlegroups.com>,
>> ***@googlemail.com says...
>>>
>>> On Thursday, 17 May 2018 11:17:59 UTC+1, occam wrote:
>>>> On 17/05/2018 02:57, Janet wrote:
>>>>> In article <TuYKC.225069$***@fx23.am4>, ***@gmail.com
>>>>> says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 16/05/2018 16:41, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney?s school of
>>>>>>>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a ?perceptually
>>>>>>>> ambiguous stimulus? such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> More:
>>>>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>>>>>>>> tried to make out the other sound.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Me too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can only hear Yanny. Weird.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the BBC News at 6pm, it was claimed that people whose hearing
>>>>> picks up high frequencies hear Yanny (two of the presenters did).
>>>>>
>>>>> I know my high frequency hearing has declined (I can't hear bats any
>>>>> more). I'm hearing Laurel.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's interesting. When I call out to my dog (renown for good HF
>>>> hearing) I wonder what he hears when I say "Come Harvey, come here boy" ?
>>>
>>> He hears a demented yelping that suggests something interesting may be
>>> going on in your locality. It's not what you say it's the way that you say it.
>>
>> We once had a GS cross collie dog who understood over a hundred
>> words; (many assistance dogs do the same).
>>
>> Here's Chaser, the dog which can identify over a thousand.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi8HFdPMsiM
>>
>
>Perhaps - but my point was, are the thousand words she 'understands' the
>same ones we bark at her? I doubt it. The mapping of the words we utter
>onto the words they hear will be different for different speakers. If a
>high pitched person shouts the same order to your dog, will she obey? (I
>apologize for assuming your dog is a 'she' - I realise it is a bitch of
>an assumption.)

Lesson: Don't name your dog "Laurel" or "Yanny".
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-17 11:02:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-05-17 12:17:56 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> said:

> On 17/05/2018 02:57, Janet wrote:
>> In article <TuYKC.225069$***@fx23.am4>, ***@gmail.com
>> says...
>>>
>>> On 16/05/2018 16:41, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney?s school of
>>>>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a ?perceptually
>>>>> ambiguous stimulus? such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>>>>>
>>>>> More:
>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments

I
>>>>>
>>>>> have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>>>>> tried to make out the other sound.
>>>>
>>>> Me too.
>>>
>>> I can only hear Yanny. Weird.
>>
>> On the BBC News at 6pm, it was claimed that people whose hearing
>> picks up high frequencies hear Yanny (two of the presenters did).
>>
>> I know my high frequency hearing has declined (I can't hear bats any
>> more). I'm hearing Laurel.
>>
>
> That's interesting. When I call out to my dog (renown for good HF
> hearing) I wonder what he hears when I say "Come Harvey, come here boy" ?

If B. Kliban (no, I'm wrong, it was Larson) is to be believed, he hears
"blah HARVEY blah blah blah"

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sluggerotoole/153603564


--
athel
occam
2018-05-18 07:11:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 17/05/2018 13:02, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2018-05-17 12:17:56 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> said:
>
>> On 17/05/2018 02:57, Janet wrote:
>>> In article <TuYKC.225069$***@fx23.am4>, ***@gmail.com
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> On 16/05/2018 16:41, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 16 May 2018 11:57:01 +0200, occam <***@invalid.nix> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney?s school of
>>>>>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a
>>>>>> ?perceptually
>>>>>> ambiguous stimulus? such as the Necker cube or the face/vase
>>>>>> illusion. "
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More:
>>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>>>>>
>
> I
>>>>>>
>>>>>> have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>>>>>> tried to make out the other sound.
>>>>>
>>>>> Me too.
>>>>
>>>> I can only hear Yanny.  Weird.
>>>
>>> On the BBC News at 6pm, it was claimed that people whose hearing
>>> picks up high frequencies hear Yanny (two of the presenters did).
>>>
>>> I know my high frequency hearing has declined (I can't hear bats any
>>> more).  I'm hearing Laurel.
>>>
>>
>> That's interesting.  When I call out to my dog (renown for good HF
>> hearing)  I wonder what  he hears when I say "Come Harvey, come here
>> boy" ?
>
> If B. Kliban (no, I'm wrong, it was Larson) is to be believed, he hears
> "blah HARVEY blah blah blah"
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/sluggerotoole/153603564
>
>

My point was even more radical. Harvey may think its name is 'Joyce' or
'Yayce' depending on who utters it.

(I like the cartoon.)
grabber
2018-05-16 17:55:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 16/05/2018 10:57, occam wrote:
> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
> ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>
> More:
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>
> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> tried to make out the other sound.
>

This is really rather remarkable. I heard an unequivocal "laurel" first,
but when I turned the tone control on my speakers to maximum treble and
tried again, I could get "yanny". Putting the bass back, it was "laurel"
again but as I gradually increased the treble to find the crossover
point, "yanny" never came back at all. I could only get "yanny" back by
listening to a bass-shifted version of the recording. Once I had it, the
original recording had gone back to "yanny", and stayed "yanny" despited
shifting the tone gradually back to bass. I have yet to find any way of
hearing intermediate-sounding word.

The recording seems to be an artificial mix of a high-frequency "yanny"
with a low frequency "laurel" but what is remarkable is the brain's
insistence on tuning to one, and staying tuned to it.

A page with bass and treble-shifted versions, which may help people hear
the "opposite" word is at

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
Richard Tobin
2018-05-16 18:00:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <rg_KC.285627$***@fx31.am4>, grabber <***@bb.er> wrote:

>The recording seems to be an artificial mix of a high-frequency "yanny"
>with a low frequency "laurel" but what is remarkable is the brain's
>insistence on tuning to one, and staying tuned to it.

I suspect it was created as an audio counterpart to the visual
illusion you'll find by searching for "einstein monroe illusion".

-- Richard
grabber
2018-05-16 18:14:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 16/05/2018 19:00, Richard Tobin wrote:
> In article <rg_KC.285627$***@fx31.am4>, grabber <***@bb.er> wrote:
>
>> The recording seems to be an artificial mix of a high-frequency "yanny"
>> with a low frequency "laurel" but what is remarkable is the brain's
>> insistence on tuning to one, and staying tuned to it.
>
> I suspect it was created as an audio counterpart to the visual
> illusion you'll find by searching for "einstein monroe illusion".

Yes, but I can shift semi-volutarily between monroe, einstein and an
intermediate amalgam of the two with a bit of screwing-up of the eyes,
and I can voluntarily choose which interpretation to see of most of the
ambiguous visual illusions. I'm powerless in the face of this audio one.

I admit I could never choose which way to see the blue/black/white/gold
dress without cheating with different backgrounds, but I found that one
easier to accept intellectually.
Richard Yates
2018-05-16 19:44:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 16 May 2018 18:00:28 +0000 (UTC), ***@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
(Richard Tobin) wrote:

>In article <rg_KC.285627$***@fx31.am4>, grabber <***@bb.er> wrote:
>
>>The recording seems to be an artificial mix of a high-frequency "yanny"
>>with a low frequency "laurel" but what is remarkable is the brain's
>>insistence on tuning to one, and staying tuned to it.
>
>I suspect it was created as an audio counterpart to the visual
>illusion you'll find by searching for "einstein monroe illusion".

The source has been identified and it was not so constructed. It was
for a vocabulary site with recorded words. This one was the word
"laurel" recorded by a member of the original cast of CATS.
Ross
2018-05-16 20:14:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 7:44:10 AM UTC+12, Richard Yates wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2018 18:00:28 +0000 (UTC), ***@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
> (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>
> >In article <rg_KC.285627$***@fx31.am4>, grabber <***@bb.er> wrote:
> >
> >>The recording seems to be an artificial mix of a high-frequency "yanny"
> >>with a low frequency "laurel" but what is remarkable is the brain's
> >>insistence on tuning to one, and staying tuned to it.
> >
> >I suspect it was created as an audio counterpart to the visual
> >illusion you'll find by searching for "einstein monroe illusion".
>
> The source has been identified and it was not so constructed. It was
> for a vocabulary site with recorded words. This one was the word
> "laurel" recorded by a member of the original cast of CATS.

Language Log has finally logged on with a lengthy acoustic analysis,
followed by a note from Ben Zimmer identifying the origin.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=38274#more-38274

But who first heard "Yanny" and got all excited about it? Is that
what Cloe Wassername became famous for?
RH Draney
2018-05-16 20:17:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 5/16/2018 12:44 PM, Richard Yates wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2018 18:00:28 +0000 (UTC), ***@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
> (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>
>> In article <rg_KC.285627$***@fx31.am4>, grabber <***@bb.er> wrote:
>>
>>> The recording seems to be an artificial mix of a high-frequency "yanny"
>>> with a low frequency "laurel" but what is remarkable is the brain's
>>> insistence on tuning to one, and staying tuned to it.
>>
>> I suspect it was created as an audio counterpart to the visual
>> illusion you'll find by searching for "einstein monroe illusion".
>
> The source has been identified and it was not so constructed. It was
> for a vocabulary site with recorded words. This one was the word
> "laurel" recorded by a member of the original cast of CATS.

In that case, i can haz yanny?...

I'm told that by playing with my speakers and altering the sound, I can
hear "laurel", but surely that's cheating...when I play it straight
through exactly as presented, I can hear only "yanny", without a hint of
anything that could be interpreted otherwise....r
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-17 06:33:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-05-16 20:17:20 +0000, RH Draney said:

> On 5/16/2018 12:44 PM, Richard Yates wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 May 2018 18:00:28 +0000 (UTC), ***@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
>> (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <rg_KC.285627$***@fx31.am4>, grabber <***@bb.er> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The recording seems to be an artificial mix of a high-frequency "yanny"
>>>> with a low frequency "laurel" but what is remarkable is the brain's
>>>> insistence on tuning to one, and staying tuned to it.
>>>
>>> I suspect it was created as an audio counterpart to the visual
>>> illusion you'll find by searching for "einstein monroe illusion".
>>
>> The source has been identified and it was not so constructed. It was
>> for a vocabulary site with recorded words. This one was the word
>> "laurel" recorded by a member of the original cast of CATS.
>
> In that case, i can haz yanny?...
>
> I'm told that by playing with my speakers and altering the sound, I can
> hear "laurel", but surely that's cheating...when I play it straight
> through exactly as presented, I can hear only "yanny", without a hint
> of anything that could be interpreted otherwise....r

As I said yesterday, the only thing I can hear is "laurel". Same today.
However, I asked my wife to listen to it, without telling her what the
choices were. She first said "dear me", and then thought maybe "Jeremy"
-- both very different from "laurel", and less different from "yanny".
We don't say "laurel" very often in our daily lives, but in the past we
often used to see a South African (mother-tongue Afrikaans) called
Jannie, pronounced much like "yanny".

--
athel
J. J. Lodder
2018-05-17 09:22:30 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Athel Cornish-Bowden <***@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

> On 2018-05-16 20:17:20 +0000, RH Draney said:
>
> > On 5/16/2018 12:44 PM, Richard Yates wrote:
> >> On Wed, 16 May 2018 18:00:28 +0000 (UTC), ***@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
> >> (Richard Tobin) wrote:
> >>
> >>> In article <rg_KC.285627$***@fx31.am4>, grabber <***@bb.er> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The recording seems to be an artificial mix of a high-frequency "yanny"
> >>>> with a low frequency "laurel" but what is remarkable is the brain's
> >>>> insistence on tuning to one, and staying tuned to it.
> >>>
> >>> I suspect it was created as an audio counterpart to the visual
> >>> illusion you'll find by searching for "einstein monroe illusion".
> >>
> >> The source has been identified and it was not so constructed. It was
> >> for a vocabulary site with recorded words. This one was the word
> >> "laurel" recorded by a member of the original cast of CATS.
> >
> > In that case, i can haz yanny?...
> >
> > I'm told that by playing with my speakers and altering the sound, I can
> > hear "laurel", but surely that's cheating...when I play it straight
> > through exactly as presented, I can hear only "yanny", without a hint
> > of anything that could be interpreted otherwise....r
>
> As I said yesterday, the only thing I can hear is "laurel". Same today.
> However, I asked my wife to listen to it, without telling her what the
> choices were. She first said "dear me", and then thought maybe "Jeremy"
> -- both very different from "laurel", and less different from "yanny".
> We don't say "laurel" very often in our daily lives, but in the past we
> often used to see a South African (mother-tongue Afrikaans) called
> Jannie, pronounced much like "yanny".

(no doubt more than you want to know)
Derived from Greek Johannes, and ultimately from Hebrew Jochanan,
and one of the most common West-European names.
Some of the variants are
Dutch: also Johan, Hans, Han, Jannes.
English: John, Sean, Eoin, Owen, Ian.
Female forms are often formed as diminutives
Dutch: Janneke, Jans, Jansje, Jantje, Jannetje, Janna, Jannie,
or just Jan again.
Other derived forms are Johanna, Hanna, Jo en Joke.
English: Jean, Johan and also Jan

American: Jan is usually short for Janet or Janice,
so from a different root.
Yankee is supposed to be derived from Dutch Jan-Kees,

Jan
Jerry Friedman
2018-05-17 16:20:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 5:22:34 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Athel Cornish-Bowden <***@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
...

> > We don't say "laurel" very often in our daily lives, but in the past we
> > often used to see a South African (mother-tongue Afrikaans) called
> > Jannie, pronounced much like "yanny".
>
> (no doubt more than you want to know)
> Derived from Greek Johannes, and ultimately from Hebrew Jochanan,
> and one of the most common West-European names.
> Some of the variants are
> Dutch: also Johan, Hans, Han, Jannes.
> English: John, Sean, Eoin, Owen, Ian.

If we're doing all those borrowings, also Evan and Ivan.

> Female forms are often formed as diminutives
> Dutch: Janneke, Jans, Jansje, Jantje, Jannetje, Janna, Jannie,
> or just Jan again.
> Other derived forms are Johanna, Hanna, Jo en Joke.
> English: Jean, Johan and also Jan
>
> American: Jan is usually short for Janet or Janice,
> so from a different root.

Actually from the same root. "Janet" is an originally Scottish nickname
for "Jane", and "Janice" is also from "Jane", but invented by one
Paul Leicester Ford for his novel "Janice Meredith". There's also
Jenny and (STS warning) Jean and Joan and who knows who.

https://www.behindthename.com/name/janice

> Yankee is supposed to be derived from Dutch Jan-Kees,

That's one of the theories. According to etymonline,

'1683, a name applied disparagingly by Dutch settlers in New Amsterdam
(New York) to English colonists in neighboring Connecticut. It may be
from Dutch Janke, literally "Little John," diminutive of common personal
name Jan; or it may be from Jan Kes familiar form of "John Cornelius,"
or perhaps an alteration of Jan Kees, dialectal variant of Jan Kaas,
literally "John Cheese," the generic nickname the Flemings used for
Dutchmen.'

--
Jerry Friedman
J. J. Lodder
2018-05-17 19:51:17 UTC
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Raw Message
Jerry Friedman <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 5:22:34 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Athel Cornish-Bowden <***@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:
> ...
>
> > > We don't say "laurel" very often in our daily lives, but in the past we
> > > often used to see a South African (mother-tongue Afrikaans) called
> > > Jannie, pronounced much like "yanny".
> >
> > (no doubt more than you want to know)
> > Derived from Greek Johannes, and ultimately from Hebrew Jochanan,
> > and one of the most common West-European names.
> > Some of the variants are
> > Dutch: also Johan, Hans, Han, Jannes.
> > English: John, Sean, Eoin, Owen, Ian.
>
> If we're doing all those borrowings, also Evan and Ivan.
>
> > Female forms are often formed as diminutives
> > Dutch: Janneke, Jans, Jansje, Jantje, Jannetje, Janna, Jannie,
> > or just Jan again.
> > Other derived forms are Johanna, Hanna, Jo en Joke.
> > English: Jean, Johan and also Jan
> >
> > American: Jan is usually short for Janet or Janice,
> > so from a different root.
>
> Actually from the same root. "Janet" is an originally Scottish nickname
> for "Jane", and "Janice" is also from "Jane", but invented by one
> Paul Leicester Ford for his novel "Janice Meredith". There's also
> Jenny and (STS warning) Jean and Joan and who knows who.
>
> https://www.behindthename.com/name/janice
>
> > Yankee is supposed to be derived from Dutch Jan-Kees,
>
> That's one of the theories. According to etymonline,
>
> '1683, a name applied disparagingly by Dutch settlers in New Amsterdam
> (New York) to English colonists in neighboring Connecticut. It may be
> from Dutch Janke, literally "Little John," diminutive of common personal
> name Jan; or it may be from Jan Kes familiar form of "John Cornelius,"
> or perhaps an alteration of Jan Kees, dialectal variant of Jan Kaas,
> literally "John Cheese,"

Kees and Kaas should not be confused.
'Kees' is a very common given name,
a shortening of Cornelius.
Double given names, like Jan-Kees, or Jan-Pieter, etc
are also common, in the Netherlands.
'Kaas' is just cheese.
The pronunciation of Kaas and Kees is also quite different.
The derivation of YAnkee from kaas seems a mistake to me.

> the generic nickname the Flemings used for
> Dutchmen.'

Not Dutchmen, 'Ollanders.
The insulting form is 'Kaaskoppen',

Jan
Peter Moylan
2018-05-18 02:39:00 UTC
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Raw Message
On 18/05/18 05:51, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> Jerry Friedman <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 5:22:34 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:

>>> Yankee is supposed to be derived from Dutch Jan-Kees,
>>
>> That's one of the theories. According to etymonline,
>>
>> '1683, a name applied disparagingly by Dutch settlers in New
>> Amsterdam (New York) to English colonists in neighboring
>> Connecticut. It may be from Dutch Janke, literally "Little John,"
>> diminutive of common personal name Jan; or it may be from Jan Kes
>> familiar form of "John Cornelius," or perhaps an alteration of Jan
>> Kees, dialectal variant of Jan Kaas, literally "John Cheese,"
>
> Kees and Kaas should not be confused. 'Kees' is a very common given
> name, a shortening of Cornelius. Double given names, like Jan-Kees,
> or Jan-Pieter, etc are also common, in the Netherlands. 'Kaas' is
> just cheese. The pronunciation of Kaas and Kees is also quite
> different. The derivation of YAnkee from kaas seems a mistake to me.
>
>> the generic nickname the Flemings used for Dutchmen.'
>
> Not Dutchmen, 'Ollanders. The insulting form is 'Kaaskoppen',

I do hope that doesn't mean head cheese.

In AmE, so I'm told, "cheese head" can mean either a blockhead or
someone from Wisconsin.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Horace LaBadie
2018-05-18 03:25:25 UTC
Permalink
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In article <pdlec7$ndp$***@dont-email.me>,
Peter Moylan <***@pmoylan.org.invalid> wrote:

> On 18/05/18 05:51, J. J. Lodder wrote:
> > Jerry Friedman <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 5:22:34 AM UTC-4, J. J. Lodder wrote:
>
> >>> Yankee is supposed to be derived from Dutch Jan-Kees,
> >>
> >> That's one of the theories. According to etymonline,
> >>
> >> '1683, a name applied disparagingly by Dutch settlers in New
> >> Amsterdam (New York) to English colonists in neighboring
> >> Connecticut. It may be from Dutch Janke, literally "Little John,"
> >> diminutive of common personal name Jan; or it may be from Jan Kes
> >> familiar form of "John Cornelius," or perhaps an alteration of Jan
> >> Kees, dialectal variant of Jan Kaas, literally "John Cheese,"
> >
> > Kees and Kaas should not be confused. 'Kees' is a very common given
> > name, a shortening of Cornelius. Double given names, like Jan-Kees,
> > or Jan-Pieter, etc are also common, in the Netherlands. 'Kaas' is
> > just cheese. The pronunciation of Kaas and Kees is also quite
> > different. The derivation of YAnkee from kaas seems a mistake to me.
> >
> >> the generic nickname the Flemings used for Dutchmen.'
> >
> > Not Dutchmen, 'Ollanders. The insulting form is 'Kaaskoppen',
>
> I do hope that doesn't mean head cheese.
>
> In AmE, so I'm told, "cheese head" can mean either a blockhead or
> someone from Wisconsin.

Wisconsinites or fans of the Green Bay Packers are Cheeseheads, one word.
RH Draney
2018-05-18 04:53:39 UTC
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On 5/17/2018 7:39 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:

>> Jerry Friedman <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> '1683, a name applied disparagingly by Dutch settlers in New
>>> Amsterdam (New York) to English colonists in neighboring
>>> Connecticut. It may be from Dutch Janke, literally "Little John,"
>>> diminutive of common personal name Jan; or it may be from Jan Kes
>>> familiar form of "John Cornelius," or perhaps an alteration of Jan
>>> Kees, dialectal variant of Jan Kaas, literally "John Cheese,"

Known for Silly Walks....

> In AmE, so I'm told, "cheese head" can mean either a blockhead or
> someone from Wisconsin.

Some might consider those synonyms....r
Mark Brader
2018-05-18 07:26:15 UTC
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Raw Message
Jerry Friedman:
>>>> '1683, a name applied disparagingly by Dutch settlers in New
>>>> Amsterdam (New York) to English colonists in neighboring
>>>> Connecticut. It may be from Dutch Janke, literally "Little John,"
>>>> diminutive of common personal name Jan; or it may be from Jan Kes
>>>> familiar form of "John Cornelius," or perhaps an alteration of Jan
>>>> Kees, dialectal variant of Jan Kaas, literally "John Cheese,"

R.H. Draney:
> Known for Silly Walks....

That's not a joke, you know. John Cleese's surname *would* have been
Cheese if his father, born Reginald Cheese, hadn't decided to change it.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "But going repeatedly back and forth in time is
***@vex.net | cheating. Anybody can do that!" --Paul Kriha
J. J. Lodder
2018-05-18 07:53:50 UTC
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Raw Message
RH Draney <***@cox.net> wrote:

> On 5/17/2018 7:39 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:
>
> >> Jerry Friedman <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> '1683, a name applied disparagingly by Dutch settlers in New
> >>> Amsterdam (New York) to English colonists in neighboring
> >>> Connecticut. It may be from Dutch Janke, literally "Little John,"
> >>> diminutive of common personal name Jan; or it may be from Jan Kes
> >>> familiar form of "John Cornelius," or perhaps an alteration of Jan
> >>> Kees, dialectal variant of Jan Kaas, literally "John Cheese,"
>
> Known for Silly Walks....

The Dutch are great fans of Jonh Cleese,
and conversely Cleese likes the Netherlands.
His 'The Last Time To See Me Before I Die'-tour
is always sold out.

There is a 'Silly Walks' tunnel in Eindhoven.
White tiled, decorated with black tiles showing Cleese in action.
John Cleese came over for the official opening.
<http://www.eindhoveninbeeld.com/eindhoveninbeeld.php?foto=36955&positio
n=right_bottom>
or google for more.
He declined to demonstrate the walks,
saying that he is to stiff in the joints
nowadays for that kind of thing.

> > In AmE, so I'm told, "cheese head" can mean either a blockhead or
> > someone from Wisconsin.
>
> Some might consider those synonyms....r

Originally the 'kaaskop' was a shaped wooden mold
for making the spherical 'Edammmer' cheese.
The insult came later,

Jan
Richard Tobin
2018-05-18 09:42:32 UTC
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In article <***@news7.newsguy.com>, RH Draney <***@cox.net> wrote:

>Known for Silly Walks....

There is a office in the Scilly Isles that distributes leaflets
describing walks there, but they have no sense of humour.

-- Richard
RH Draney
2018-05-18 12:36:49 UTC
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Raw Message
On 5/18/2018 2:42 AM, Richard Tobin wrote:
> In article <***@news7.newsguy.com>, RH Draney <***@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Known for Silly Walks....
>
> There is a office in the Scilly Isles that distributes leaflets
> describing walks there, but they have no sense of humour.

Perhaps a trip to the mountains of Arizona is in order:

http://www.doney.net/aroundaz/DA_apachejunction_silly.jpg

....r
CDB
2018-05-18 14:59:38 UTC
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On 5/18/2018 8:36 AM, RH Draney wrote:
> Richard Tobin wrote:
>> RH Draney <***@cox.net> wrote:

>>> Known for Silly Walks....

>> There is a office in the Scilly Isles that distributes leaflets
>> describing walks there, but they have no sense of humour.

> Perhaps a trip to the mountains of Arizona is in order:

> http://www.doney.net/aroundaz/DA_apachejunction_silly.jpg

From Ushant to Silly is 1,732.8 leagues.

Approximately.

If my calculations are correct.
Sam Plusnet
2018-05-18 20:29:39 UTC
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On 18-May-18 15:59, CDB wrote:
> On 5/18/2018 8:36 AM, RH Draney wrote:
>> Richard Tobin wrote:
>>> RH Draney <***@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>>> Known for Silly Walks....
>
>>> There is a office in the Scilly Isles that distributes leaflets
>>> describing walks there, but they have no sense of humour.
>
>> Perhaps a trip to the mountains of Arizona is in order:
>
>> http://www.doney.net/aroundaz/DA_apachejunction_silly.jpg
>
> From Ushant to Silly is 1,732.8 leagues.
>
> Approximately.
>
> If my calculations are correct.
>
No.
Nay.
Never.

--
Sam Plusnet
Kerr-Mudd,John
2018-05-20 10:30:04 UTC
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Raw Message
On Fri, 18 May 2018 20:29:39 GMT, Sam Plusnet <***@home.com> wrote:

> On 18-May-18 15:59, CDB wrote:
>> On 5/18/2018 8:36 AM, RH Draney wrote:
>>> Richard Tobin wrote:
>>>> RH Draney <***@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Known for Silly Walks....
>>
>>>> There is a office in the Scilly Isles that distributes leaflets
>>>> describing walks there, but they have no sense of humour.
>>
>>> Perhaps a trip to the mountains of Arizona is in order:
>>
>>> http://www.doney.net/aroundaz/DA_apachejunction_silly.jpg
>>
>> From Ushant to Silly is 1,732.8 leagues.
>>
>> Approximately.
>>
>> If my calculations are correct.
>>
> No.
> Nay.
> Never.
>

Have you been at the Silly beer?

http://silly-beer.com/en/
(real website, real beer)

--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
CDB
2018-05-20 12:20:15 UTC
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Raw Message
On 5/20/2018 6:30 AM, Kerr-Mudd,John wrote:
> Sam Plusnet <***@home.com> wrote:
>> CDB wrote:
>>> RH Draney wrote:
>>>> Richard Tobin wrote:
>>>>> RH Draney <***@cox.net> wrote:

>>>>>> Known for Silly Walks....

>>>>> There is a office in the Scilly Isles that distributes
>>>>> leaflets describing walks there, but they have no sense of
>>>>> humour.

>>>> Perhaps a trip to the mountains of Arizona is in order:

>>>> http://www.doney.net/aroundaz/DA_apachejunction_silly.jpg

>>> From Ushant to Silly is 1,732.8 leagues.

>>> Approximately.

>>> If my calculations are correct.

>> No. Nay. Never.

You did see that it was a "mountain"?

> Have you been at the Silly beer?

> http://silly-beer.com/en/ (real website, real beer)

I take it the "ll" is silent, more or less.
grabber
2018-05-16 20:56:23 UTC
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Raw Message
On 16/05/2018 20:44, Richard Yates wrote:
> On Wed, 16 May 2018 18:00:28 +0000 (UTC), ***@cogsci.ed.ac.uk
> (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>
>> In article <rg_KC.285627$***@fx31.am4>, grabber <***@bb.er> wrote:
>>
>>> The recording seems to be an artificial mix of a high-frequency "yanny"
>>> with a low frequency "laurel" but what is remarkable is the brain's
>>> insistence on tuning to one, and staying tuned to it.
>>
>> I suspect it was created as an audio counterpart to the visual
>> illusion you'll find by searching for "einstein monroe illusion".
>
> The source has been identified

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/laurel apparently

Having practiced, I have now trained myself to listen to the loop that
has gone viral and to decide in advance what I'm going to hear each
time. I can't hear anything intermediate.

But I can't hear the sound at the vocabulary.com site as anything but
"laurel", even when I've conditioned myself to hear "yanny" for the loop
with bass maxed out.

Whether that's just an accidental effect of copying the recording or
whether jiggery-pokery is afoot, I could not say.

It would be interesting to know what yanny-hearers make of the
vocaularly.com version.

> and it was not so constructed. It was
> for a vocabulary site with recorded words. This one was the word
> "laurel" recorded by a member of the original cast of CATS.
>
Janet
2018-05-17 01:03:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In article <rg_KC.285627$***@fx31.am4>, ***@bb.er says...
>
> On 16/05/2018 10:57, occam wrote:
> > "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney?s school of
> > psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a ?perceptually
> > ambiguous stimulus? such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
> >
> > More:
> > https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
> >
> > I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> > tried to make out the other sound.
> >
>
> This is really rather remarkable. I heard an unequivocal "laurel" first,
> but when I turned the tone control on my speakers to maximum treble and
> tried again, I could get "yanny". Putting the bass back, it was "laurel"
> again but as I gradually increased the treble to find the crossover
> point, "yanny" never came back at all. I could only get "yanny" back by
> listening to a bass-shifted version of the recording. Once I had it, the
> original recording had gone back to "yanny", and stayed "yanny" despited
> shifting the tone gradually back to bass. I have yet to find any way of
> hearing intermediate-sounding word.
>
> The recording seems to be an artificial mix of a high-frequency "yanny"
> with a low frequency "laurel" but what is remarkable is the brain's
> insistence on tuning to one, and staying tuned to it.
>
> A page with bass and treble-shifted versions, which may help people hear
> the "opposite" word is at
>
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments

Ah, now I can hear both by shifting the bass.

for those who want to try shifting the pitch


down 30%: https://xxv.so/0x6841c258
down 20%: https://xxv.so/0x75b636d0
up 20%: https://xxv.so/0x9d0eb907
up 30% https://xxv.so/0x6d752ac8
up 40% https://xxv.so/0x90b8eeee
https://twitter.com/CloeCouture/status/996218489831473152 ?

Janet.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com
Ross
2018-05-17 06:23:53 UTC
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Raw Message
On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 1:03:48 PM UTC+12, Janet wrote:
> In article <rg_KC.285627$***@fx31.am4>, ***@bb.er says...
> >
> > On 16/05/2018 10:57, occam wrote:
> > > "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney?s school of
> > > psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a ?perceptually
> > > ambiguous stimulus? such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
> > >
> > > More:
> > > https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
> > >
> > > I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> > > tried to make out the other sound.
> > >
> >
> > This is really rather remarkable. I heard an unequivocal "laurel" first,
> > but when I turned the tone control on my speakers to maximum treble and
> > tried again, I could get "yanny". Putting the bass back, it was "laurel"
> > again but as I gradually increased the treble to find the crossover
> > point, "yanny" never came back at all. I could only get "yanny" back by
> > listening to a bass-shifted version of the recording. Once I had it, the
> > original recording had gone back to "yanny", and stayed "yanny" despited
> > shifting the tone gradually back to bass. I have yet to find any way of
> > hearing intermediate-sounding word.
> >
> > The recording seems to be an artificial mix of a high-frequency "yanny"
> > with a low frequency "laurel" but what is remarkable is the brain's
> > insistence on tuning to one, and staying tuned to it.
> >
> > A page with bass and treble-shifted versions, which may help people hear
> > the "opposite" word is at
> >
> > https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>
> Ah, now I can hear both by shifting the bass.
>
> for those who want to try shifting the pitch
>
>
> down 30%: https://xxv.so/0x6841c258
> down 20%: https://xxv.so/0x75b636d0
> up 20%: https://xxv.so/0x9d0eb907
> up 30% https://xxv.so/0x6d752ac8
> up 40% https://xxv.so/0x90b8eeee
> https://twitter.com/CloeCouture/status/996218489831473152 ?
>
> Janet.
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> http://www.avg.com

This works nicely for me: pitch raised, I hear Laurel (as with unmodified),
pitch lowered, bringing the higher frequencies down into my optimal
hearing range, I start to hear...well, something like "yearry".

Two points of interest that have emerged: (1) people who listen to the
"original" soundfile on pronunciation.com (?) hear _only_ "Laurel", which
is what it was meant to be; (2) Munson and the other acoustic phoneticians
who examined the spectrogram of the viral version found clear evidence that
it had been mucked about - either pieces of another speaker spliced in,
formants wiped out, or re-recorded through a low-fi device such as a cell
phone. I'm still interested in who did it and why.
the Omrud
2018-05-17 07:57:16 UTC
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Raw Message
On 17/05/2018 07:23, Ross wrote:
> On Thursday, May 17, 2018 at 1:03:48 PM UTC+12, Janet wrote:
>> In article <rg_KC.285627$***@fx31.am4>, ***@bb.er says...
>>>
>>> On 16/05/2018 10:57, occam wrote:
>>>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney?s school of
>>>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a ?perceptually
>>>> ambiguous stimulus? such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>>>>
>>>> More:
>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>>>
>>>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>>>> tried to make out the other sound.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This is really rather remarkable. I heard an unequivocal "laurel" first,
>>> but when I turned the tone control on my speakers to maximum treble and
>>> tried again, I could get "yanny". Putting the bass back, it was "laurel"
>>> again but as I gradually increased the treble to find the crossover
>>> point, "yanny" never came back at all. I could only get "yanny" back by
>>> listening to a bass-shifted version of the recording. Once I had it, the
>>> original recording had gone back to "yanny", and stayed "yanny" despited
>>> shifting the tone gradually back to bass. I have yet to find any way of
>>> hearing intermediate-sounding word.
>>>
>>> The recording seems to be an artificial mix of a high-frequency "yanny"
>>> with a low frequency "laurel" but what is remarkable is the brain's
>>> insistence on tuning to one, and staying tuned to it.
>>>
>>> A page with bass and treble-shifted versions, which may help people hear
>>> the "opposite" word is at
>>>
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>
>> Ah, now I can hear both by shifting the bass.
>>
>> for those who want to try shifting the pitch
>>
>>
>> down 30%: https://xxv.so/0x6841c258
>> down 20%: https://xxv.so/0x75b636d0
>> up 20%: https://xxv.so/0x9d0eb907
>> up 30% https://xxv.so/0x6d752ac8
>> up 40% https://xxv.so/0x90b8eeee
>> https://twitter.com/CloeCouture/status/996218489831473152 ?
>>
>> Janet.
>>
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
>> http://www.avg.com
>
> This works nicely for me: pitch raised, I hear Laurel (as with unmodified),
> pitch lowered, bringing the higher frequencies down into my optimal
> hearing range, I start to hear...well, something like "yearry".
>
> Two points of interest that have emerged: (1) people who listen to the
> "original" soundfile on pronunciation.com (?) hear _only_ "Laurel", which
> is what it was meant to be; (2) Munson and the other acoustic phoneticians
> who examined the spectrogram of the viral version found clear evidence that
> it had been mucked about - either pieces of another speaker spliced in,
> formants wiped out, or re-recorded through a low-fi device such as a cell
> phone. I'm still interested in who did it and why.

I've listened to all the versions and I have not yet heard anything but
Yanny. With the pitch shifted up 40%, this moves slightly towards
Yorry, but I've never heard an initial L.

--
David
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-17 09:44:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-05-17 08:23:53 +0200, Ross <***@ihug.co.nz> said:

>
> [ ... ]

>
> This works nicely for me: pitch raised, I hear Laurel (as with unmodified),
> pitch lowered, bringing the higher frequencies down into my optimal
> hearing range, I start to hear...well, something like "yearry".

That describes exactly what I hear: "yearry" yes, "yanny", no.
>
> Two points of interest that have emerged: (1) people who listen to the
> "original" soundfile on pronunciation.com (?) hear _only_ "Laurel", which
> is what it was meant to be; (2) Munson and the other acoustic phoneticians
> who examined the spectrogram of the viral version found clear evidence that
> it had been mucked about - either pieces of another speaker spliced in,
> formants wiped out, or re-recorded through a low-fi device such as a cell
> phone. I'm still interested in who did it and why.


--
athel
Katy Jennison
2018-05-17 06:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 17/05/2018 02:03, Janet wrote:
> In article <rg_KC.285627$***@fx31.am4>, ***@bb.er says...
>>
>> On 16/05/2018 10:57, occam wrote:
>>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney?s school of
>>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a ?perceptually
>>> ambiguous stimulus? such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>>>
>>> More:
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>>
>>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>>> tried to make out the other sound.
>>>
>>
>> This is really rather remarkable. I heard an unequivocal "laurel" first,
>> but when I turned the tone control on my speakers to maximum treble and
>> tried again, I could get "yanny". Putting the bass back, it was "laurel"
>> again but as I gradually increased the treble to find the crossover
>> point, "yanny" never came back at all. I could only get "yanny" back by
>> listening to a bass-shifted version of the recording. Once I had it, the
>> original recording had gone back to "yanny", and stayed "yanny" despited
>> shifting the tone gradually back to bass. I have yet to find any way of
>> hearing intermediate-sounding word.
>>
>> The recording seems to be an artificial mix of a high-frequency "yanny"
>> with a low frequency "laurel" but what is remarkable is the brain's
>> insistence on tuning to one, and staying tuned to it.
>>
>> A page with bass and treble-shifted versions, which may help people hear
>> the "opposite" word is at
>>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>
> Ah, now I can hear both by shifting the bass.
>
> for those who want to try shifting the pitch
>
>
> down 30%: https://xxv.so/0x6841c258
> down 20%: https://xxv.so/0x75b636d0
> up 20%: https://xxv.so/0x9d0eb907
> up 30% https://xxv.so/0x6d752ac8
> up 40% https://xxv.so/0x90b8eeee
> https://twitter.com/CloeCouture/status/996218489831473152 ?
>

Having heard only Yanny on the original site I linked to, I then heard
only Laurel on the Language Log link. And now the first of these
pitch-shifted ones (down 30%) is quite clearly "Yally" to me.

--
Katy Jennison
Pavel Svinchnik
2018-05-20 12:14:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wednesday, May 16, 2018 at 5:56:58 AM UTC-4, occam wrote:
> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
> ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>
> More:
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>
> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> tried to make out the other sound.


Husband: I love you, Laurel.

Wife: Who's Yanny?
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-05-20 14:32:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 20 May 2018 05:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Pavel Svinchnik
<***@jhmi.edu> wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 16, 2018 at 5:56:58 AM UTC-4, occam wrote:
>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
>> ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>>
>> More:
>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>
>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>> tried to make out the other sound.
>
>
>Husband: I love you, Laurel.
>
>Wife: Who's Yanny?

<smile>

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
RH Draney
2018-05-20 19:27:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 5/20/2018 7:32 AM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Sun, 20 May 2018 05:14:12 -0700 (PDT), Pavel Svinchnik
> <***@jhmi.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Husband: I love you, Laurel.
>>
>> Wife: Who's Yanny?
>
> <smile>

I've been working on a Gershwin version, but I'm not happy with it....r
Quinn C
2018-05-22 15:24:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
* Pavel Svinchnik:

> On Wednesday, May 16, 2018 at 5:56:58 AM UTC-4, occam wrote:
>> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
>> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
>> ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>>
>> More:
>> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>>
>> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
>> tried to make out the other sound.
>
> Husband: I love you, Laurel.
>
> Wife: Who's Yanny?

Your're way late:
<http://reductress.com/post/man-calls-girlfriend-yanny-during-sex-swears-he-said-laurel/>

--
Woman is a pair of ovaries with a human being attached, whereas
man is a human being furnished with a pair of testes.
-- Rudolf Virchow
Dr. HotSalt
2018-05-22 06:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wednesday, May 16, 2018 at 2:56:58 AM UTC-7, occam wrote:
> "Professor David Alais from the University of Sydney’s school of
> psychology says the Yanny/Laurel sound is an example of a “perceptually
> ambiguous stimulus” such as the Necker cube or the face/vase illusion. "
>
> More:
> https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/may/16/yanny-or-laurel-sound-illusion-sets-off-ear-splitting-arguments
>
> I have to confess, all I could hear was 'Laurel', no matter how hard I
> tried to make out the other sound.

A possibly useful data point:

When first listening to it I heard "Laurel" as recorded by a human using low-fidelity recording gear.

Then I noticed that the harmonic content seemed rather restricted, reminiscent of early voice synthesizers.

Suddenly I heard it as an early synthesized voice saying "Yanny".

By changing my mind about the imagined voice source I could make it flip back and forth as I listened, exactly analogous to the Necker cube.


Dr. HotSalt
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