Discussion:
Tooliewamps
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Tony Cooper
2017-04-20 01:13:58 UTC
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In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".

No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.

It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK. It's the second book I've read
by Wood, and I'd check out a third if there is one. (Library book)
Except, though, her other books are science fiction and I don't do SF.

Wood was born in Connecticut (USA) and lives in New Zealand, but the
two books I've read are set in Yorkshire. I wouldn't recognize any
Yorkshire/UK gaffes, but I do wonder where she got the idea that
"tooliewamps" is an American expression.

"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Ross
2017-04-20 01:23:57 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK. It's the second book I've read
by Wood, and I'd check out a third if there is one. (Library book)
Except, though, her other books are science fiction and I don't do SF.
Wood was born in Connecticut (USA) and lives in New Zealand, but the
two books I've read are set in Yorkshire. I wouldn't recognize any
Yorkshire/UK gaffes, but I do wonder where she got the idea that
"tooliewamps" is an American expression.
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
approximately the same thing. But as for the "-wamp", I can't say.
Possibly a distant relative of "wop-wops", used in NZ but maybe of
Australian origin?
Charles Bishop
2017-04-20 03:12:43 UTC
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Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK. It's the second book I've read
by Wood, and I'd check out a third if there is one. (Library book)
Except, though, her other books are science fiction and I don't do SF.
Wood was born in Connecticut (USA) and lives in New Zealand, but the
two books I've read are set in Yorkshire. I wouldn't recognize any
Yorkshire/UK gaffes, but I do wonder where she got the idea that
"tooliewamps" is an American expression.
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
approximately the same thing. But as for the "-wamp", I can't say.
Possibly a distant relative of "wop-wops", used in NZ but maybe of
Australian origin?
I would, but I'm in a fog.

I have the idea that tules are reeds of some sort, growing along the
edges of bodies of water.
--
charles
Ross
2017-04-20 03:20:15 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK. It's the second book I've read
by Wood, and I'd check out a third if there is one. (Library book)
Except, though, her other books are science fiction and I don't do SF.
Wood was born in Connecticut (USA) and lives in New Zealand, but the
two books I've read are set in Yorkshire. I wouldn't recognize any
Yorkshire/UK gaffes, but I do wonder where she got the idea that
"tooliewamps" is an American expression.
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
approximately the same thing. But as for the "-wamp", I can't say.
Possibly a distant relative of "wop-wops", used in NZ but maybe of
Australian origin?
I would, but I'm in a fog.
I have the idea that tules are reeds of some sort, growing along the
edges of bodies of water.
--
charles
Just so:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schoenoplectus_acutus
Charles Bishop
2017-04-20 12:47:44 UTC
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Post by Ross
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK. It's the second book I've read
by Wood, and I'd check out a third if there is one. (Library book)
Except, though, her other books are science fiction and I don't do SF.
Wood was born in Connecticut (USA) and lives in New Zealand, but the
two books I've read are set in Yorkshire. I wouldn't recognize any
Yorkshire/UK gaffes, but I do wonder where she got the idea that
"tooliewamps" is an American expression.
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
approximately the same thing. But as for the "-wamp", I can't say.
Possibly a distant relative of "wop-wops", used in NZ but maybe of
Australian origin?
I would, but I'm in a fog.
I have the idea that tules are reeds of some sort, growing along the
edges of bodies of water.
--
charles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schoenoplectus_acutus
Ah, I've seen them then, and now know they are associated with "tule fog"

YRDLSH

Charles
bill van
2017-04-20 05:58:46 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK. It's the second book I've read
by Wood, and I'd check out a third if there is one. (Library book)
Except, though, her other books are science fiction and I don't do SF.
Wood was born in Connecticut (USA) and lives in New Zealand, but the
two books I've read are set in Yorkshire. I wouldn't recognize any
Yorkshire/UK gaffes, but I do wonder where she got the idea that
"tooliewamps" is an American expression.
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
approximately the same thing. But as for the "-wamp", I can't say.
Possibly a distant relative of "wop-wops", used in NZ but maybe of
Australian origin?
I would, but I'm in a fog.
I have the idea that tules are reeds of some sort, growing along the
edges of bodies of water.
For some reason I've picked up "in the boonies" to mean the same thing.
I see that it is also the name of a U.S. TV series that I've never seen.
I'm not sure where or when I adopted it, but it sounds like "the
boondocks" may have something to do with it.
--
bill
Jerry Friedman
2017-04-20 17:50:10 UTC
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Post by bill van
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK. It's the second book I've read
by Wood, and I'd check out a third if there is one. (Library book)
Except, though, her other books are science fiction and I don't do SF.
Wood was born in Connecticut (USA) and lives in New Zealand, but the
two books I've read are set in Yorkshire. I wouldn't recognize any
Yorkshire/UK gaffes, but I do wonder where she got the idea that
"tooliewamps" is an American expression.
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
approximately the same thing. But as for the "-wamp", I can't say.
Possibly a distant relative of "wop-wops", used in NZ but maybe of
Australian origin?
I would, but I'm in a fog.
I have the idea that tules are reeds of some sort, growing along the
edges of bodies of water.
For some reason I've picked up "in the boonies" to mean the same thing.
I see that it is also the name of a U.S. TV series that I've never seen.
I'm not sure where or when I adopted it, but it sounds like "the
boondocks" may have something to do with it.
Yes, "boonies" is from "boondocks", according to the American
Heritage Dictionary.
--
Jerry Friedman
David Kleinecke
2017-04-20 19:04:41 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by bill van
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK. It's the second book I've read
by Wood, and I'd check out a third if there is one. (Library book)
Except, though, her other books are science fiction and I don't do SF.
Wood was born in Connecticut (USA) and lives in New Zealand, but the
two books I've read are set in Yorkshire. I wouldn't recognize any
Yorkshire/UK gaffes, but I do wonder where she got the idea that
"tooliewamps" is an American expression.
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
approximately the same thing. But as for the "-wamp", I can't say.
Possibly a distant relative of "wop-wops", used in NZ but maybe of
Australian origin?
I would, but I'm in a fog.
I have the idea that tules are reeds of some sort, growing along the
edges of bodies of water.
For some reason I've picked up "in the boonies" to mean the same thing.
I see that it is also the name of a U.S. TV series that I've never seen.
I'm not sure where or when I adopted it, but it sounds like "the
boondocks" may have something to do with it.
Yes, "boonies" is from "boondocks", according to the American
Heritage Dictionary.
I think everyone has overlooked "tule swamps" as a possible
source of ""tooliewamps".

I grew up in California - but not in the Central Valley - and
I do not remember hearing "tooliewamps" so I am not able to
expound on the missing "s".

OT: We were very aware of tules though because of the tularemia
problem
CDB
2017-04-21 11:56:12 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by bill van
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK. It's the second book I've read
by Wood, and I'd check out a third if there is one. (Library book)
Except, though, her other books are science fiction and I don't do SF.
Wood was born in Connecticut (USA) and lives in New Zealand, but the
two books I've read are set in Yorkshire. I wouldn't recognize any
Yorkshire/UK gaffes, but I do wonder where she got the idea that
"tooliewamps" is an American expression.
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
approximately the same thing. But as for the "-wamp", I can't say.
Possibly a distant relative of "wop-wops", used in NZ but maybe of
Australian origin?
I would, but I'm in a fog.
I have the idea that tules are reeds of some sort, growing along the
edges of bodies of water.
For some reason I've picked up "in the boonies" to mean the same thing.
I see that it is also the name of a U.S. TV series that I've never seen.
I'm not sure where or when I adopted it, but it sounds like "the
boondocks" may have something to do with it.
Yes, "boonies" is from "boondocks", according to the American
Heritage Dictionary.
I think everyone has overlooked "tule swamps" as a possible
source of ""tooliewamps".
I grew up in California - but not in the Central Valley - and
I do not remember hearing "tooliewamps" so I am not able to
expound on the missing "s".
I've been wondering if there is a connection to "catawampus". The
second element in the word when it's used to mean a kind of wild beast)
may carry the idea of wildness -- a catawampus can be a wildcat. The
wild tulares.

It took me long enough to find "tular", which I was sure I had heard
before. It turns out to be Honduran for "terreno poblado de tul",
according to the Real Academia, who agree that "tul" is a kind of reed
or "juncia", from the Nahuatl.
Post by David Kleinecke
OT: We were very aware of tules though because of the tularemia
problem
The fly that carries it hides in the reed-beds.
RH Draney
2017-04-20 07:02:04 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Ross
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
approximately the same thing. But as for the "-wamp", I can't say.
I have the idea that tules are reeds of some sort, growing along the
edges of bodies of water.
Bodies of water in the vicinity of Ultima Thule, no doubt....r
Peter Moylan
2017-04-20 07:49:42 UTC
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Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
Then I've learnt something new. My main exposure to the word has been
from the song "Down in the Boondocks", which left me with the impression
that the boondocks were the wrong side of town, the slum area. I hadn't
made the connection with "rural".
Post by Ross
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
approximately the same thing. But as for the "-wamp", I can't say.
Possibly a distant relative of "wop-wops", used in NZ but maybe of
Australian origin?
I've never heard of wop-wops, but Australians will refer to Woop Woop,
which is an imaginary town out in the back of beyond. Roughly equivalent
to "beyond the black stump" or "back of Bourke". If you asked us to
describe Woop Woop, you'd get something like "one pub, one house, one
horse, and ten dogs". Someone who comes from Woop Woop is the very
opposite of a city slicker.

Bourke is a real place. It's not quite off the beaten track -- in fact,
it's at the intersection of three B roads -- but there's a general
feeling that if you go much beyond Bourke then you're going to be lost
in the desert.

Google Maps tells me that Woop Woop is also a hair salon in Japan.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter Moylan
2017-04-20 08:50:40 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ross
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
approximately the same thing. But as for the "-wamp", I can't say.
Possibly a distant relative of "wop-wops", used in NZ but maybe of
Australian origin?
I've never heard of wop-wops, but Australians will refer to Woop Woop,
which is an imaginary town out in the back of beyond. Roughly equivalent
to "beyond the black stump" or "back of Bourke". If you asked us to
describe Woop Woop, you'd get something like "one pub, one house, one
horse, and ten dogs". Someone who comes from Woop Woop is the very
opposite of a city slicker.
Extra clarification, now that I think of it. Woop Woop is a plausible
Australian place name, but it is not a plausible New Zealand place name.
NZ names have much more Maori influence.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Lewis
2017-04-20 13:29:34 UTC
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Post by Ross
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
I've heard toolees (not sure about the spelling, so we'll stick with
yours) but never heard it as "tules".

I assumed toolees was linked to "tooling around" in a car.
--
NON-FLAMMABLE IS NOT A CHALLENGE Bart chalkboard Ep. BABF13
Jerry Friedman
2017-04-20 19:21:51 UTC
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Post by Lewis
Post by Ross
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
I've heard toolees (not sure about the spelling, so we'll stick with
yours) but never heard it as "tules".
"Tule" is pronounced "toolee".
Post by Lewis
I assumed toolees was linked to "tooling around" in a car.
I've just decided that it's not short for "Tom Dooley".

I've also just learned the the official tule plant is the one I've
been wondering about that grows around the local fishing lakes.
I think.
--
Jerry Friedman
--
Jerry Friedman
Robert Bannister
2017-04-24 00:32:52 UTC
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Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK. It's the second book I've read
by Wood, and I'd check out a third if there is one. (Library book)
Except, though, her other books are science fiction and I don't do SF.
Wood was born in Connecticut (USA) and lives in New Zealand, but the
two books I've read are set in Yorkshire. I wouldn't recognize any
Yorkshire/UK gaffes, but I do wonder where she got the idea that
"tooliewamps" is an American expression.
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
approximately the same thing. But as for the "-wamp", I can't say.
Possibly a distant relative of "wop-wops", used in NZ but maybe of
Australian origin?
Australian has "Woop Woop" as a sort of place name for somewhere in the
back of beyond, but not really used in the same way as above.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Ross
2017-04-24 01:34:30 UTC
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Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK. It's the second book I've read
by Wood, and I'd check out a third if there is one. (Library book)
Except, though, her other books are science fiction and I don't do SF.
Wood was born in Connecticut (USA) and lives in New Zealand, but the
two books I've read are set in Yorkshire. I wouldn't recognize any
Yorkshire/UK gaffes, but I do wonder where she got the idea that
"tooliewamps" is an American expression.
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
The Californians will explain that "out in the tules" [toolees] means
approximately the same thing. But as for the "-wamp", I can't say.
Possibly a distant relative of "wop-wops", used in NZ but maybe of
Australian origin?
Australian has "Woop Woop" as a sort of place name for somewhere in the
back of beyond, but not really used in the same way as above.
Wilkins: "Imaginary place which is a byword for backwardness and
rem"oteness.

The difference seems to be that Woop Woop is a place name, whereas "the
tooliewamps" describes a kind of country. The "backwardness and remoteness"
seem to be the same. Do you see other differences?
Charles Bishop
2017-04-20 03:10:07 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
I've heard and used "toolies"(sp) or perhaps "tulies"(ditto) as another
word for boondocks. Probably first in CA, but I wouldn't swear to it.
Post by Tony Cooper
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK. It's the second book I've read
by Wood, and I'd check out a third if there is one. (Library book)
Except, though, her other books are science fiction and I don't do SF.
Wood was born in Connecticut (USA) and lives in New Zealand, but the
two books I've read are set in Yorkshire. I wouldn't recognize any
Yorkshire/UK gaffes, but I do wonder where she got the idea that
"tooliewamps" is an American expression.
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
--
Charles
John Varela
2017-04-21 02:04:14 UTC
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On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 03:10:07 UTC, Charles Bishop
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
I've heard and used "toolies"(sp) or perhaps "tulies"(ditto) as another
word for boondocks. Probably first in CA, but I wouldn't swear to it.
I've heard, though I doubt I've had occasion to use, "toolies" and
though I have been to California I've never spent much time there.

<snip>
--
John Varela
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-20 03:39:11 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
Ross
2017-04-20 11:50:24 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
"Boondocks" was not new in English in 1944. Some writer (I don't think
we ever got a proper reference from you) apparently said it came
from a Micronesian language because (he said) it was in use in the
Carolines some time in the 1940s. All other evidence contradicts
this. See sci.lang discussion going back to 2005. Why do you keep
re-cycling this rubbish?
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-20 11:59:56 UTC
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Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
"Boondocks" was not new in English in 1944. Some writer (I don't think
we ever got a proper reference from you)
Because it was many years ago that my "obsession" with the Pacific Islands occupied
one summer and I read everything I could find on them -- after I decided it would
be a good idea to know where, exactly, the Caroline Islands Script was used. One of
them was a shortly-post-war publication of a journalist's experiences covering
the war in Micronesia (possibly even *New Yorker* reportage) with a lengthy passage
explaining the concept of "boondocks," a local word for the "back of the beyond," out
where people generally didn't go.

If your claim will be that it's Common Austronesia (so that it would be found in
both Tagalog and Ponapean or Trukese or whatever), then say so.
Post by Ross
apparently said it came
from a Micronesian language because (he said) it was in use in the
Carolines some time in the 1940s. All other evidence contradicts
this. See sci.lang discussion going back to 2005. Why do you keep
re-cycling this rubbish?
Because I believe what people on the ground wrote about it at the time.

American reporters had little to no opportunity to report from Tagalog-speaking areas.
Ross
2017-04-20 12:26:26 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
"Boondocks" was not new in English in 1944. Some writer (I don't think
we ever got a proper reference from you)
Because it was many years ago that my "obsession" with the Pacific Islands occupied
one summer and I read everything I could find on them -- after I decided it would
be a good idea to know where, exactly, the Caroline Islands Script was used. One of
them was a shortly-post-war publication of a journalist's experiences covering
the war in Micronesia (possibly even *New Yorker* reportage) with a lengthy passage
explaining the concept of "boondocks," a local word for the "back of the beyond," out
where people generally didn't go.
If your claim will be that it's Common Austronesia (so that it would be found in
both Tagalog and Ponapean or Trukese or whatever), then say so.
What I told you in 2005 was that the word existed in Tagalog
and not in any Micronesian language.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
apparently said it came
from a Micronesian language because (he said) it was in use in the
Carolines some time in the 1940s. All other evidence contradicts
this. See sci.lang discussion going back to 2005. Why do you keep
re-cycling this rubbish?
Because I believe what people on the ground wrote about it at the time.
And you resolutely ignored evidence that it was in English well before
that time.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
American reporters had little to no opportunity to report from Tagalog-speaking areas.
E.J.Kahn, the only writer you have ever mentioned by name, published
his book in 1966. GBooks provides me with a single occurrence of
"boondocks" in this book, which does not (from the fragment of context
they provide) appear to be concerned with its etymology.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-20 12:29:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
"Boondocks" was not new in English in 1944. Some writer (I don't think
we ever got a proper reference from you)
Because it was many years ago that my "obsession" with the Pacific Islands occupied
one summer and I read everything I could find on them -- after I decided it would
be a good idea to know where, exactly, the Caroline Islands Script was used. One of
them was a shortly-post-war publication of a journalist's experiences covering
the war in Micronesia (possibly even *New Yorker* reportage) with a lengthy passage
explaining the concept of "boondocks," a local word for the "back of the beyond," out
where people generally didn't go.
If your claim will be that it's Common Austronesia (so that it would be found in
both Tagalog and Ponapean or Trukese or whatever), then say so.
What I told you in 2005 was that the word existed in Tagalog
and not in any Micronesian language.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
apparently said it came
from a Micronesian language because (he said) it was in use in the
Carolines some time in the 1940s. All other evidence contradicts
this. See sci.lang discussion going back to 2005. Why do you keep
re-cycling this rubbish?
Because I believe what people on the ground wrote about it at the time.
And you resolutely ignored evidence that it was in English well before
that time.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
American reporters had little to no opportunity to report from Tagalog-speaking areas.
E.J.Kahn, the only writer you have ever mentioned by name, published
his book in 1966. GBooks provides me with a single occurrence of
"boondocks" in this book, which does not (from the fragment of context
they provide) appear to be concerned with its etymology.
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker* war correspondent.
Tony Cooper
2017-04-20 14:00:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 05:29:58 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
E.J.Kahn, the only writer you have ever mentioned by name, published
his book in 1966. GBooks provides me with a single occurrence of
"boondocks" in this book, which does not (from the fragment of context
they provide) appear to be concerned with its etymology.
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker* war correspondent.
PTD, who disparages the use of Britishisms by the non-British, has
used "innit" in a sentence where "innit" seems to this ear to be
wrongly used.

Is this a fair cop or not, Guv?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Richard Tobin
2017-04-20 14:58:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker*
war correspondent.
PTD, who disparages the use of Britishisms by the non-British, has
used "innit" in a sentence where "innit" seems to this ear to be
wrongly used.
Is this a fair cop or not, Guv?
Not sure. "Innit" used to be used only in contexts where "isn't it"
would make sense, but it has become less specific.

-- Richard
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-20 15:05:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker*
war correspondent.
PTD, who disparages the use of Britishisms by the non-British, has
used "innit" in a sentence where "innit" seems to this ear to be
wrongly used.
Is this a fair cop or not, Guv?
Not sure. "Innit" used to be used only in contexts where "isn't it"
would make sense, but it has become less specific.
Actually he was referring to my use of an Anglicism, not to its meaning.
Harrison Hill
2017-04-20 16:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker*
war correspondent.
PTD, who disparages the use of Britishisms by the non-British, has
used "innit" in a sentence where "innit" seems to this ear to be
wrongly used.
Is this a fair cop or not, Guv?
Not sure. "Innit" used to be used only in contexts where "isn't it"
would make sense, but it has become less specific.
You can get the sense of "innit" from this clip. "Innit" is *not*
British English. I first heard on the tongues of black Mauritians,
and Hong Kong Chinese. It probably came in from everywhere; and only
rarely does it mean anything at all. The dialects explained here:


Tony Cooper
2017-04-20 16:43:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 09:05:44 -0700 (PDT), Harrison Hill
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker*
war correspondent.
PTD, who disparages the use of Britishisms by the non-British, has
used "innit" in a sentence where "innit" seems to this ear to be
wrongly used.
Is this a fair cop or not, Guv?
Not sure. "Innit" used to be used only in contexts where "isn't it"
would make sense, but it has become less specific.
You can get the sense of "innit" from this clip. "Innit" is *not*
British English.
I don't think that claim has been made. "Innit" is a Britishism in
that it is said by the British and written by the British in
reproducing speech.

Your "British English" reference is a term that describes proper
English. English, as it is spoken, includes quite a number of words
and terms that are not "proper". "Loo", which has been discussed
recently is such a term. "Guv", in my sentence above, is another.

However, even a term that is not proper British English should be used
properly in context. It's the proper thing to do, innit.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-20 21:10:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Richard Tobin
"Innit" used to be used only in contexts where "isn't it"
would make sense, but it has become less specific.
You can get the sense of "innit" from this clip. "Innit" is *not*
British English. I first heard on the tongues of black Mauritians,
and Hong Kong Chinese. It probably came in from everywhere; and only
http://youtu.be/WNQ8FTL5DoU
If it "came in[to BrE, presumably] from everywhere," then it's BrE.
occam
2017-04-21 05:33:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker*
war correspondent.
PTD, who disparages the use of Britishisms by the non-British, has
used "innit" in a sentence where "innit" seems to this ear to be
wrongly used.
Is this a fair cop or not, Guv?
Not sure. "Innit" used to be used only in contexts where "isn't it"
would make sense, but it has become less specific.
You can get the sense of "innit" from this clip. "Innit" is *not*
British English. I first heard on the tongues of black Mauritians,
and Hong Kong Chinese. It probably came in from everywhere; and only
http://youtu.be/WNQ8FTL5DoU
Your logic confounds me Harrison. You say 'innit' was first heard on the
tongues of Mauritians (heard by whom?) and then you give a link to a
comedy sketch of an English comedian making fun of Greek-speak in England.

I am guessing you used similar logic before you voted for Brexit. Stick
to poetry.
Janet
2017-04-21 18:45:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker*
war correspondent.
PTD, who disparages the use of Britishisms by the non-British, has
used "innit" in a sentence where "innit" seems to this ear to be
wrongly used.
Is this a fair cop or not, Guv?
Not sure. "Innit" used to be used only in contexts where "isn't it"
would make sense, but it has become less specific.
You can get the sense of "innit" from this clip. "Innit" is *not*
British English.
I first heard on the tongues of black Mauritians,
Post by Harrison Hill
and Hong Kong Chinese. It probably came in from everywhere;
"probably came in from everywhere"? WTF does that mean?

I take innit to be a modern contraction that has overtaken ain't it,
(SE English) or intit (NW English) both of which were very common and
very British working class English.

Janet.



Janet
Tony Cooper
2017-04-21 19:42:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker*
war correspondent.
PTD, who disparages the use of Britishisms by the non-British, has
used "innit" in a sentence where "innit" seems to this ear to be
wrongly used.
Is this a fair cop or not, Guv?
Not sure. "Innit" used to be used only in contexts where "isn't it"
would make sense, but it has become less specific.
You can get the sense of "innit" from this clip. "Innit" is *not*
British English.
I first heard on the tongues of black Mauritians,
Post by Harrison Hill
and Hong Kong Chinese. It probably came in from everywhere;
"probably came in from everywhere"? WTF does that mean?
I take innit to be a modern contraction that has overtaken ain't it,
(SE English) or intit (NW English) both of which were very common and
very British working class English.
And, contrary to what HH said, it is "British English". If it's
English, and commonly used in Britain, it's British English regardless
of the class of the speaker.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-20 15:04:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 05:29:58 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
E.J.Kahn, the only writer you have ever mentioned by name, published
his book in 1966. GBooks provides me with a single occurrence of
"boondocks" in this book, which does not (from the fragment of context
they provide) appear to be concerned with its etymology.
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker* war correspondent.
PTD, who disparages the use of Britishisms by the non-British, has
used "innit" in a sentence where "innit" seems to this ear to be
wrongly used.
Tony Cooper is apparently unaware that a thread about "innit" is currently appearing.
Post by Tony Cooper
Is this a fair cop or not, Guv?
No.
Ross
2017-04-20 20:41:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
"Boondocks" was not new in English in 1944. Some writer (I don't think
we ever got a proper reference from you)
Because it was many years ago that my "obsession" with the Pacific Islands occupied
one summer and I read everything I could find on them -- after I decided it would
be a good idea to know where, exactly, the Caroline Islands Script was used. One of
them was a shortly-post-war publication of a journalist's experiences covering
the war in Micronesia (possibly even *New Yorker* reportage) with a lengthy passage
explaining the concept of "boondocks," a local word for the "back of the beyond," out
where people generally didn't go.
If your claim will be that it's Common Austronesia (so that it would be found in
both Tagalog and Ponapean or Trukese or whatever), then say so.
What I told you in 2005 was that the word existed in Tagalog
and not in any Micronesian language.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
apparently said it came
from a Micronesian language because (he said) it was in use in the
Carolines some time in the 1940s. All other evidence contradicts
this. See sci.lang discussion going back to 2005. Why do you keep
re-cycling this rubbish?
Because I believe what people on the ground wrote about it at the time.
And you resolutely ignored evidence that it was in English well before
that time.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
American reporters had little to no opportunity to report from Tagalog-speaking areas.
E.J.Kahn, the only writer you have ever mentioned by name, published
his book in 1966. GBooks provides me with a single occurrence of
"boondocks" in this book, which does not (from the fragment of context
they provide) appear to be concerned with its etymology.
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker* war correspondent.
Be sure to let me know if you ever find the book and the place from which
this idea took root in your mind.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-20 21:12:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
"Boondocks" was not new in English in 1944. Some writer (I don't think
we ever got a proper reference from you)
Because it was many years ago that my "obsession" with the Pacific Islands occupied
one summer and I read everything I could find on them -- after I decided it would
be a good idea to know where, exactly, the Caroline Islands Script was used. One of
them was a shortly-post-war publication of a journalist's experiences covering
the war in Micronesia (possibly even *New Yorker* reportage) with a lengthy passage
explaining the concept of "boondocks," a local word for the "back of the beyond," out
where people generally didn't go.
If your claim will be that it's Common Austronesia (so that it would be found in
both Tagalog and Ponapean or Trukese or whatever), then say so.
What I told you in 2005 was that the word existed in Tagalog
and not in any Micronesian language.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
apparently said it came
from a Micronesian language because (he said) it was in use in the
Carolines some time in the 1940s. All other evidence contradicts
this. See sci.lang discussion going back to 2005. Why do you keep
re-cycling this rubbish?
Because I believe what people on the ground wrote about it at the time.
And you resolutely ignored evidence that it was in English well before
that time.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
American reporters had little to no opportunity to report from Tagalog-speaking areas.
E.J.Kahn, the only writer you have ever mentioned by name, published
his book in 1966. GBooks provides me with a single occurrence of
"boondocks" in this book, which does not (from the fragment of context
they provide) appear to be concerned with its etymology.
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker* war correspondent.
Be sure to let me know if you ever find the book and the place from which
this idea took root in your mind.
I do not expect to be perusing that literature any time in the near future. Or the far future.
Ross
2017-04-20 22:22:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
"Boondocks" was not new in English in 1944. Some writer (I don't think
we ever got a proper reference from you)
Because it was many years ago that my "obsession" with the Pacific Islands occupied
one summer and I read everything I could find on them -- after I decided it would
be a good idea to know where, exactly, the Caroline Islands Script was used. One of
them was a shortly-post-war publication of a journalist's experiences covering
the war in Micronesia (possibly even *New Yorker* reportage) with a lengthy passage
explaining the concept of "boondocks," a local word for the "back of the beyond," out
where people generally didn't go.
If your claim will be that it's Common Austronesia (so that it would be found in
both Tagalog and Ponapean or Trukese or whatever), then say so.
What I told you in 2005 was that the word existed in Tagalog
and not in any Micronesian language.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
apparently said it came
from a Micronesian language because (he said) it was in use in the
Carolines some time in the 1940s. All other evidence contradicts
this. See sci.lang discussion going back to 2005. Why do you keep
re-cycling this rubbish?
Because I believe what people on the ground wrote about it at the time.
And you resolutely ignored evidence that it was in English well before
that time.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
American reporters had little to no opportunity to report from Tagalog-speaking areas.
E.J.Kahn, the only writer you have ever mentioned by name, published
his book in 1966. GBooks provides me with a single occurrence of
"boondocks" in this book, which does not (from the fragment of context
they provide) appear to be concerned with its etymology.
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker* war correspondent.
Be sure to let me know if you ever find the book and the place from which
this idea took root in your mind.
I do not expect to be perusing that literature any time in the near future. Or the far future.
Let me suggest, then, that if you're not prepared to find a proper
reference, you should stop citing this half-remembered factoid as if
it were of some significance.
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
2017-04-21 00:39:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Be sure to let me know if you ever find the book and the place
from which this idea took root in your mind.
I do not expect to be perusing that literature any time
in the near future. Or the far future.
Weaseling noted.
Post by Ross
Let me suggest, then, that if you're not prepared to find a proper
reference, you should stop citing this half-remembered factoid as
if it were of some significance.
Oh, Ross! Must you always "start a fight" [TM] with that paranoid loony?

See the paranoid loony:
Loading Image...
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-21 03:23:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
"Boondocks" was not new in English in 1944. Some writer (I don't think
we ever got a proper reference from you)
Because it was many years ago that my "obsession" with the Pacific Islands occupied
one summer and I read everything I could find on them -- after I decided it would
be a good idea to know where, exactly, the Caroline Islands Script was used. One of
them was a shortly-post-war publication of a journalist's experiences covering
the war in Micronesia (possibly even *New Yorker* reportage) with a lengthy passage
explaining the concept of "boondocks," a local word for the "back of the beyond," out
where people generally didn't go.
If your claim will be that it's Common Austronesia (so that it would be found in
both Tagalog and Ponapean or Trukese or whatever), then say so.
What I told you in 2005 was that the word existed in Tagalog
and not in any Micronesian language.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
apparently said it came
from a Micronesian language because (he said) it was in use in the
Carolines some time in the 1940s. All other evidence contradicts
this. See sci.lang discussion going back to 2005. Why do you keep
re-cycling this rubbish?
Because I believe what people on the ground wrote about it at the time.
And you resolutely ignored evidence that it was in English well before
that time.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
American reporters had little to no opportunity to report from Tagalog-speaking areas.
E.J.Kahn, the only writer you have ever mentioned by name, published
his book in 1966. GBooks provides me with a single occurrence of
"boondocks" in this book, which does not (from the fragment of context
they provide) appear to be concerned with its etymology.
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker* war correspondent.
Be sure to let me know if you ever find the book and the place from which
this idea took root in your mind.
I do not expect to be perusing that literature any time in the near future. Or the far future.
Let me suggest, then, that if you're not prepared to find a proper
reference, you should stop citing this half-remembered factoid as if
it were of some significance.
And maybe you should stop claiming that a vague reminiscence from the Spanish-
American War was responsible for the word's currency in modern English.
David Kleinecke
2017-04-21 03:46:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
"Boondocks" was not new in English in 1944. Some writer (I don't think
we ever got a proper reference from you)
Because it was many years ago that my "obsession" with the Pacific Islands occupied
one summer and I read everything I could find on them -- after I decided it would
be a good idea to know where, exactly, the Caroline Islands Script was used. One of
them was a shortly-post-war publication of a journalist's experiences covering
the war in Micronesia (possibly even *New Yorker* reportage) with a lengthy passage
explaining the concept of "boondocks," a local word for the "back of the beyond," out
where people generally didn't go.
If your claim will be that it's Common Austronesia (so that it would be found in
both Tagalog and Ponapean or Trukese or whatever), then say so.
What I told you in 2005 was that the word existed in Tagalog
and not in any Micronesian language.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
apparently said it came
from a Micronesian language because (he said) it was in use in the
Carolines some time in the 1940s. All other evidence contradicts
this. See sci.lang discussion going back to 2005. Why do you keep
re-cycling this rubbish?
Because I believe what people on the ground wrote about it at the time.
And you resolutely ignored evidence that it was in English well before
that time.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
American reporters had little to no opportunity to report from Tagalog-speaking areas.
E.J.Kahn, the only writer you have ever mentioned by name, published
his book in 1966. GBooks provides me with a single occurrence of
"boondocks" in this book, which does not (from the fragment of context
they provide) appear to be concerned with its etymology.
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker* war correspondent.
Be sure to let me know if you ever find the book and the place from which
this idea took root in your mind.
I do not expect to be perusing that literature any time in the near future. Or the far future.
Let me suggest, then, that if you're not prepared to find a proper
reference, you should stop citing this half-remembered factoid as if
it were of some significance.
And maybe you should stop claiming that a vague reminiscence from the Spanish-
American War was responsible for the word's currency in modern English.
There must be an immense number of letters from military men
between the Spanish-American War and WW II that remain unplumbed.
Until they are investigated we cannot get the best evidence for
the occurrence or non-occurence of "boondocks".

I don't know how old "boonies" is but I think its existence is
contingent on the existence of "boondocks".
Ross
2017-04-21 04:06:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
"Boondocks" was not new in English in 1944. Some writer (I don't think
we ever got a proper reference from you)
Because it was many years ago that my "obsession" with the Pacific Islands occupied
one summer and I read everything I could find on them -- after I decided it would
be a good idea to know where, exactly, the Caroline Islands Script was used. One of
them was a shortly-post-war publication of a journalist's experiences covering
the war in Micronesia (possibly even *New Yorker* reportage) with a lengthy passage
explaining the concept of "boondocks," a local word for the "back of the beyond," out
where people generally didn't go.
If your claim will be that it's Common Austronesia (so that it would be found in
both Tagalog and Ponapean or Trukese or whatever), then say so.
What I told you in 2005 was that the word existed in Tagalog
and not in any Micronesian language.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
apparently said it came
from a Micronesian language because (he said) it was in use in the
Carolines some time in the 1940s. All other evidence contradicts
this. See sci.lang discussion going back to 2005. Why do you keep
re-cycling this rubbish?
Because I believe what people on the ground wrote about it at the time.
And you resolutely ignored evidence that it was in English well before
that time.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
American reporters had little to no opportunity to report from Tagalog-speaking areas.
E.J.Kahn, the only writer you have ever mentioned by name, published
his book in 1966. GBooks provides me with a single occurrence of
"boondocks" in this book, which does not (from the fragment of context
they provide) appear to be concerned with its etymology.
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker* war correspondent.
Be sure to let me know if you ever find the book and the place from which
this idea took root in your mind.
I do not expect to be perusing that literature any time in the near future. Or the far future.
Let me suggest, then, that if you're not prepared to find a proper
reference, you should stop citing this half-remembered factoid as if
it were of some significance.
And maybe you should stop claiming that a vague reminiscence from the Spanish-
American War was responsible for the word's currency in modern English.
There must be an immense number of letters from military men
between the Spanish-American War and WW II that remain unplumbed.
Until they are investigated we cannot get the best evidence for
the occurrence or non-occurence of "boondocks".
I don't know how old "boonies" is but I think its existence is
contingent on the existence of "boondocks".
The ngrams show "boondocks" (in books) increasing rapidly (from
almost nothing) from about 1940. "Boonies" comes along about 20 years
later.
Ross
2017-04-22 01:20:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
"Boondocks" was not new in English in 1944. Some writer (I don't think
we ever got a proper reference from you)
Because it was many years ago that my "obsession" with the Pacific Islands occupied
one summer and I read everything I could find on them -- after I decided it would
be a good idea to know where, exactly, the Caroline Islands Script was used. One of
them was a shortly-post-war publication of a journalist's experiences covering
the war in Micronesia (possibly even *New Yorker* reportage) with a lengthy passage
explaining the concept of "boondocks," a local word for the "back of the beyond," out
where people generally didn't go.
If your claim will be that it's Common Austronesia (so that it would be found in
both Tagalog and Ponapean or Trukese or whatever), then say so.
What I told you in 2005 was that the word existed in Tagalog
and not in any Micronesian language.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
apparently said it came
from a Micronesian language because (he said) it was in use in the
Carolines some time in the 1940s. All other evidence contradicts
this. See sci.lang discussion going back to 2005. Why do you keep
re-cycling this rubbish?
Because I believe what people on the ground wrote about it at the time.
And you resolutely ignored evidence that it was in English well before
that time.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
American reporters had little to no opportunity to report from Tagalog-speaking areas.
E.J.Kahn, the only writer you have ever mentioned by name, published
his book in 1966. GBooks provides me with a single occurrence of
"boondocks" in this book, which does not (from the fragment of context
they provide) appear to be concerned with its etymology.
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker* war correspondent.
Be sure to let me know if you ever find the book and the place from which
this idea took root in your mind.
I do not expect to be perusing that literature any time in the near future. Or the far future.
Let me suggest, then, that if you're not prepared to find a proper
reference, you should stop citing this half-remembered factoid as if
it were of some significance.
And maybe you should stop claiming that a vague reminiscence from the Spanish-
American War was responsible for the word's currency in modern English.
There must be an immense number of letters from military men
between the Spanish-American War and WW II that remain unplumbed.
Until they are investigated we cannot get the best evidence for
the occurrence or non-occurence of "boondocks".
I found something a little like that when looking at the earliest
appearances of "boondocks" in ProQuest Historical Newspapers.

Before 1943 there is nothing. The earliest appearance is in the Camel
cigarette ad (referred to in the earlier thread), which appears in the
NY Times of April 2, mentioning it as part of the distinctive language
of the Marines (who, by the way, smoke Camels).

In August, a book is published called "Out in the Boondocks", in which
"Twenty-one Marines tell their own stories of the fighting in the Pacific".
There is a good deal of pre-publicity, post-publicity and advertising about
this book, as well as several reviews. Most of the reviewers identify
"boondocks" as Marines slang, and attempt a definition.

Charles Collins, who writes a column in the Chicago Daily Tribune called
"A Line O' Type Or Two", mentions the word on August 21. He says it is
new to him, but has been turning up more and more in accounts of the war,
especially connected with the US Marines. He wonders where it came
from, and asks for readers' suggestions. Within a week he has enough
to convince him of its origin during the American occupation of the
Philippines. For example:

"I served two years in the old Carabao outfit [13th Infantry] in the
Philippines from 1914 to 1916, and during that time I never heard the
rural districts referred to as anything but “out in the bundocks”.
I have always been under the impression that the word came from the
Tagalog language, which is the Malayan dialect spoken by many natives
around Manila."
C.Bruckner
Not a letter, but a recollection from someone who was actually there.

As Collins summarizes: '....”boondocks” has existed in soldier talk
ever since the American occupation of Luzon. Apparently it remained
pocketed in the vernacular of Philippine veterans until this war started.....'


Uses of the word continue in the papers, but by 1944-45 seem not to
require explanation.

What happened in 1943? America was at war; thousands more men were
entering the military; and the language of soldiers/sailors/marines
was appearing prominently in newspapers, books and movies telling
people about the war. That's how "boondocks" broke out.
David Kleinecke
2017-04-21 03:48:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
"Boondocks" was not new in English in 1944. Some writer (I don't think
we ever got a proper reference from you)
Because it was many years ago that my "obsession" with the Pacific Islands occupied
one summer and I read everything I could find on them -- after I decided it would
be a good idea to know where, exactly, the Caroline Islands Script was used. One of
them was a shortly-post-war publication of a journalist's experiences covering
the war in Micronesia (possibly even *New Yorker* reportage) with a lengthy passage
explaining the concept of "boondocks," a local word for the "back of the beyond," out
where people generally didn't go.
If your claim will be that it's Common Austronesia (so that it would be found in
both Tagalog and Ponapean or Trukese or whatever), then say so.
What I told you in 2005 was that the word existed in Tagalog
and not in any Micronesian language.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
apparently said it came
from a Micronesian language because (he said) it was in use in the
Carolines some time in the 1940s. All other evidence contradicts
this. See sci.lang discussion going back to 2005. Why do you keep
re-cycling this rubbish?
Because I believe what people on the ground wrote about it at the time.
And you resolutely ignored evidence that it was in English well before
that time.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
American reporters had little to no opportunity to report from Tagalog-speaking areas.
E.J.Kahn, the only writer you have ever mentioned by name, published
his book in 1966. GBooks provides me with a single occurrence of
"boondocks" in this book, which does not (from the fragment of context
they provide) appear to be concerned with its etymology.
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker* war correspondent.
Be sure to let me know if you ever find the book and the place from which
this idea took root in your mind.
I do not expect to be perusing that literature any time in the near future. Or the far future.
Let me suggest, then, that if you're not prepared to find a proper
reference, you should stop citing this half-remembered factoid as if
it were of some significance.
And maybe you should stop claiming that a vague reminiscence from the Spanish-
American War was responsible for the word's currency in modern English.
It occurs to me that there was vibrant immigrant community of
Tagalog speakers in California before WWII. Boondocks could have
been borrowed from them rather that the military.
Ross
2017-04-21 04:03:15 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
When "boondocks" was new in English (ca.1944), it was said to be from a
Micronesian language, because it was used in the Carolines.
"Boondocks" was not new in English in 1944. Some writer (I don't think
we ever got a proper reference from you)
Because it was many years ago that my "obsession" with the Pacific Islands occupied
one summer and I read everything I could find on them -- after I decided it would
be a good idea to know where, exactly, the Caroline Islands Script was used. One of
them was a shortly-post-war publication of a journalist's experiences covering
the war in Micronesia (possibly even *New Yorker* reportage) with a lengthy passage
explaining the concept of "boondocks," a local word for the "back of the beyond," out
where people generally didn't go.
If your claim will be that it's Common Austronesia (so that it would be found in
both Tagalog and Ponapean or Trukese or whatever), then say so.
What I told you in 2005 was that the word existed in Tagalog
and not in any Micronesian language.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
apparently said it came
from a Micronesian language because (he said) it was in use in the
Carolines some time in the 1940s. All other evidence contradicts
this. See sci.lang discussion going back to 2005. Why do you keep
re-cycling this rubbish?
Because I believe what people on the ground wrote about it at the time.
And you resolutely ignored evidence that it was in English well before
that time.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
American reporters had little to no opportunity to report from Tagalog-speaking areas.
E.J.Kahn, the only writer you have ever mentioned by name, published
his book in 1966. GBooks provides me with a single occurrence of
"boondocks" in this book, which does not (from the fragment of context
they provide) appear to be concerned with its etymology.
Then I guess that wasn't the book, innit. Though he was a *New Yorker* war correspondent.
Be sure to let me know if you ever find the book and the place from which
this idea took root in your mind.
I do not expect to be perusing that literature any time in the near future. Or the far future.
Let me suggest, then, that if you're not prepared to find a proper
reference, you should stop citing this half-remembered factoid as if
it were of some significance.
And maybe you should stop claiming that a vague reminiscence from the Spanish-
American War was responsible for the word's currency in modern English.
Of course I made no such silly claim. You were apparently deaf and blind
to the evidence presented in the earlier thread of its presence in AmEng,
from Webster 1909 onwards. As to the details of how, ca.1940, it broke out
from being USMC slang to much more general use, that might be interesting
to investigate. But I don't think Micronesia is going to be the key to it.
GordonD
2017-04-20 08:28:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
occam
2017-04-20 09:17:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
Perhaps even bovine foot-and-mouth ('mad cow disease'). For what it's
worth, I prefer 'hoof-and-mouth' because it disambiguates the animal
form from the human version. NOT to be confused with foot-in-mouth,
which is suffered by several politicians and a president.

http://www.webmd.com/children/guide/hand-foot-and-mouth-disease-topic-overview
GordonD
2017-04-20 09:32:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by occam
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station,
out in the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps"
is an American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really
say, "Out in the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote
from the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the
time of the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
Perhaps even bovine foot-and-mouth ('mad cow disease'). For what
it's worth, I prefer 'hoof-and-mouth' because it disambiguates the
animal form from the human version. NOT to be confused with
foot-in-mouth, which is suffered by several politicians and a
president.
I agree that 'hoof-and-mouth disease' is more logical. But 'mad cow
disease' is something entirely different. Mad cow disease, properly
known as Bovine spongiform encephalopathy, attacks the central nervous
system. Foot-and-mouth causes blisters in those parts of the body.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
Quinn C
2017-04-20 21:33:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by occam
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
Perhaps even bovine foot-and-mouth ('mad cow disease'). For what it's
worth, I prefer 'hoof-and-mouth' because it disambiguates the animal
form from the human version. NOT to be confused with foot-in-mouth,
which is suffered by several politicians and a president.
http://www.webmd.com/children/guide/hand-foot-and-mouth-disease-topic-overview
I didn't know about hand-foot-and-mouth disease, but people can
catch foot-and-mouth disease, too.

The German name is Maul- und Klauenseuche, roughly,
muzzle-and-claw plague, i.e. both body part names refer clearly to
animals. "Claw" in this case refers to a cloven hoof, so it's even
more specific than "hoof".
--
... their average size remains so much smaller; so that the sum
total of food converted into thought by women can never equal
[that of] men. It follows therefore, that men will always think
more than women. -- M.A. Hardaker in Popular Science (1881)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-04-21 00:10:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:33:41 -0400, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by occam
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
Perhaps even bovine foot-and-mouth ('mad cow disease'). For what it's
worth, I prefer 'hoof-and-mouth' because it disambiguates the animal
form from the human version. NOT to be confused with foot-in-mouth,
which is suffered by several politicians and a president.
http://www.webmd.com/children/guide/hand-foot-and-mouth-disease-topic-overview
I didn't know about hand-foot-and-mouth disease, but people can
catch foot-and-mouth disease, too.
The German name is Maul- und Klauenseuche, roughly,
muzzle-and-claw plague, i.e. both body part names refer clearly to
animals. "Claw" in this case refers to a cloven hoof, so it's even
more specific than "hoof".
There may be some confusion here.

In English the disease known as "foot-and mouth disease" (FMD) affects
animals.

The disease that affects humans is known in English as "hand, foot and
mouth disease" (HFMD). It is different:
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/hand-foot-and-mouth-disease/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Hand, foot and mouth disease is a common infection that causes mouth
ulcers and spots on the hands and feet.

It's most common in young children – particularly those under 10 –
but can affect older children and adults as well.

Hand, foot and mouth disease can be unpleasant, but it will usually
clear up by itself within 7 to 10 days. You can normally look after
yourself or your child at home.

The infection is not related to foot and mouth disease, which
affects cattle, sheep and pigs.

FMD can, exremely rarely, affect humans:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-and-mouth_disease#Infecting_humans

Infecting humans

Humans can be infected with foot-and-mouth disease through contact
with infected animals, but this is extremely rare. Some cases were
caused by laboratory accidents. Because the virus that causes FMD is
sensitive to stomach acid, it cannot spread to humans via
consumption of infected meat, except in the mouth before the meat is
swallowed. In the UK, the last confirmed human case occurred in
1966, and only a few other cases have been recorded in countries of
continental Europe, Africa, and South America. Symptoms of FMD in
humans include malaise, fever, vomiting, red ulcerative lesions
(surface-eroding damaged spots) of the oral tissues, and sometimes
vesicular lesions (small blisters) of the skin. According to a
newspaper report, FMD killed two children in England in 1884,
supposedly due to infected milk.

Another viral disease with similar symptoms, "hand, foot and mouth
disease", occurs more frequently in humans, especially in young
children; the cause, Coxsackie A virus, is different from FMDV.
Coxsackie viruses belong to the Enteroviruses within the
Picornaviridae.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Quinn C
2017-04-21 19:09:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:33:41 -0400, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
I didn't know about hand-foot-and-mouth disease, but people can
catch foot-and-mouth disease, too.
The German name is Maul- und Klauenseuche, roughly,
muzzle-and-claw plague, i.e. both body part names refer clearly to
animals. "Claw" in this case refers to a cloven hoof, so it's even
more specific than "hoof".
There may be some confusion here.
In English the disease known as "foot-and mouth disease" (FMD) affects
animals.
The disease that affects humans is known in English as "hand, foot and
[...]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-and-mouth_disease#Infecting_humans
There was no confusion. That's what I said, too.

Foot-and-mouth disease aka hoof-and-mouth disease is "Maul- und
Klauenseuche" in German, whereas hand, foot and mouth disease is
"Hand-Fuß-Mund-Krankheit", so in German, there is very little
danger of confusion.
--
The trouble some people have being German, I thought,
I have being human.
-- Margaret Atwood, Surfacing (novel), p.130
Sam Plusnet
2017-04-21 20:58:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:33:41 -0400, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by occam
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
Perhaps even bovine foot-and-mouth ('mad cow disease'). For what it's
worth, I prefer 'hoof-and-mouth' because it disambiguates the animal
form from the human version. NOT to be confused with foot-in-mouth,
which is suffered by several politicians and a president.
http://www.webmd.com/children/guide/hand-foot-and-mouth-disease-topic-overview
I didn't know about hand-foot-and-mouth disease, but people can
catch foot-and-mouth disease, too.
The German name is Maul- und Klauenseuche, roughly,
muzzle-and-claw plague, i.e. both body part names refer clearly to
animals. "Claw" in this case refers to a cloven hoof, so it's even
more specific than "hoof".
There may be some confusion here.
In English the disease known as "foot-and mouth disease" (FMD) affects
animals.
The disease that affects humans is known in English as "hand, foot and
http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/hand-foot-and-mouth-disease/Pages/Introduction.aspx
Hand, foot and mouth disease is a common infection that causes mouth
ulcers and spots on the hands and feet.
It's most common in young children – particularly those under 10 –
but can affect older children and adults as well.
Hand, foot and mouth disease can be unpleasant, but it will usually
clear up by itself within 7 to 10 days. You can normally look after
yourself or your child at home.
The infection is not related to foot and mouth disease, which
affects cattle, sheep and pigs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot-and-mouth_disease#Infecting_humans
Infecting humans
Humans can be infected with foot-and-mouth disease through contact
with infected animals, but this is extremely rare. Some cases were
caused by laboratory accidents. Because the virus that causes FMD is
sensitive to stomach acid, it cannot spread to humans via
consumption of infected meat, except in the mouth before the meat is
swallowed. In the UK, the last confirmed human case occurred in
1966,
I have a vague recollection of that.
I think he was a stockman & was sent home because, although he was
unlikely to suffer too much, he could infect cattle & so was not allowed
anywhere near livestock.
--
Sam Plusnet
Janet
2017-04-21 18:49:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by occam
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
Perhaps even bovine foot-and-mouth ('mad cow disease').
You're confusing two unrelated diseases of bovines. FMD has no
connection to BSE ("mad cow disease")

Janet.
Tony Cooper
2017-04-21 19:27:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by occam
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
Perhaps even bovine foot-and-mouth ('mad cow disease').
You're confusing two unrelated diseases of bovines. FMD has no
connection to BSE ("mad cow disease")
Janet.
I've returned the book to the library, so I can't cite anything from
it, but the plot was set in the 2001 FMD epidemic* and the MAFF's
handling - or, rather, mishandling - of the problem. Also, the
economic impact on the UK.

*Wiki says I should use "epizootic" and not "epidemic" because the
disease affected only non-human animals.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-04-20 11:28:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
For a good reason. On a hoofed animal the hoof is part of the foot not
the whole of it. FMD affects the fleshy part of the animal's foot rather
than the hoof.

A hoof is the animal equivalent of a human toenail. Both are made of
keratin and both grow and if not worn down in normal living need to be
trimmed/clipped.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoof

A hoof (/'hu?f/ or /'h?f/), plural hooves (/'hu?vz/ or /'h?vz/) or
hoofs /'h?fs/, is the tip of a toe of an ungulate mammal,
strengthened by a thick, horny, keratin covering.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Robert Bannister
2017-04-24 02:08:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
For a good reason. On a hoofed animal the hoof is part of the foot not
the whole of it. FMD affects the fleshy part of the animal's foot rather
than the hoof.
A hoof is the animal equivalent of a human toenail. Both are made of
keratin and both grow and if not worn down in normal living need to be
trimmed/clipped.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoof
A hoof (/'hu?f/ or /'h?f/), plural hooves (/'hu?vz/ or /'h?vz/) or
hoofs /'h?fs/, is the tip of a toe of an ungulate mammal,
strengthened by a thick, horny, keratin covering.
That was interesting. I've never seen all the different plurals actually
listed before. The short ('pull' vowel versions seems to be gaining
ground), and I'm starting to hear that in 'roof' too.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Jerry Friedman
2017-04-24 21:08:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
For a good reason. On a hoofed animal the hoof is part of the foot not
the whole of it. FMD affects the fleshy part of the animal's foot rather
than the hoof.
A hoof is the animal equivalent of a human toenail. Both are made of
keratin and both grow and if not worn down in normal living need to be
trimmed/clipped.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoof
A hoof (/'hu?f/ or /'h?f/), plural hooves (/'hu?vz/ or /'h?vz/) or
hoofs /'h?fs/, is the tip of a toe of an ungulate mammal,
strengthened by a thick, horny, keratin covering.
That was interesting. I've never seen all the different plurals actually
listed before. The short ('pull' vowel versions seems to be gaining
ground), and I'm starting to hear that in 'roof' too.
Of course, in correct English, that is, mine, the words are

hoof [hUf] ("pull" vowel)

hooves [hUvz]

roof [ruf] ("pool" vowel)

roofs [rufs]
--
Jerry Friedman
David Kleinecke
2017-04-24 21:21:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
For a good reason. On a hoofed animal the hoof is part of the foot not
the whole of it. FMD affects the fleshy part of the animal's foot rather
than the hoof.
A hoof is the animal equivalent of a human toenail. Both are made of
keratin and both grow and if not worn down in normal living need to be
trimmed/clipped.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoof
A hoof (/'hu?f/ or /'h?f/), plural hooves (/'hu?vz/ or /'h?vz/) or
hoofs /'h?fs/, is the tip of a toe of an ungulate mammal,
strengthened by a thick, horny, keratin covering.
That was interesting. I've never seen all the different plurals actually
listed before. The short ('pull' vowel versions seems to be gaining
ground), and I'm starting to hear that in 'roof' too.
Of course, in correct English, that is, mine, the words are
hoof [hUf] ("pull" vowel)
hooves [hUvz]
roof [ruf] ("pool" vowel)
roofs [rufs]
I think I have, in your notation, [rUf] but I think I
often hear your [ruf].

But I have a problem with "the "pull" vowel because I can't
hear consistently whether that means the "put" or the "putt"
vowel. I think that, for me, the "pull" vowel is the "putt"
vowel while the vowel in "hoof" and "roof" is the "put" vowel.
Jerry Friedman
2017-04-28 15:14:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
For a good reason. On a hoofed animal the hoof is part of the foot not
the whole of it. FMD affects the fleshy part of the animal's foot rather
than the hoof.
A hoof is the animal equivalent of a human toenail. Both are made of
keratin and both grow and if not worn down in normal living need to be
trimmed/clipped.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoof
A hoof (/'hu?f/ or /'h?f/), plural hooves (/'hu?vz/ or /'h?vz/) or
hoofs /'h?fs/, is the tip of a toe of an ungulate mammal,
strengthened by a thick, horny, keratin covering.
That was interesting. I've never seen all the different plurals actually
listed before. The short ('pull' vowel versions seems to be gaining
ground), and I'm starting to hear that in 'roof' too.
Of course, in correct English, that is, mine, the words are
hoof [hUf] ("pull" vowel)
hooves [hUvz]
roof [ruf] ("pool" vowel)
roofs [rufs]
I think I have, in your notation, [rUf] but I think I
often hear your [ruf].
But I have a problem with "the "pull" vowel because I can't
hear consistently whether that means the "put" or the "putt"
vowel.
"Pull" and "put" have the same phoneme for me, although the /l/ alters
the preceding vowel sound noticeably.
Post by David Kleinecke
I think that, for me, the "pull" vowel is the "putt"
vowel while the vowel in "hoof" and "roof" is the "put" vowel.
My father, who's older than you, says "roof" with the "put" vowel, or he
used to.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Moylan
2017-04-28 15:25:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by David Kleinecke
But I have a problem with "the "pull" vowel because I can't
hear consistently whether that means the "put" or the "putt"
vowel.
"Pull" and "put" have the same phoneme for me, although the /l/ alters
the preceding vowel sound noticeably.
After carefully observing my mouth shape, and trying variants like
"pult", I have concluded that I have exactly the same vowel in "pull"
and "put".

My "putt" vowel is totally different, but that's unhelpful because we
already know that that vowel doesn't exist in most varieties of AmE. I
say [pVt], but as I understand it most varieties of AmE say either
[pV"t] or [p@:t].
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-28 17:26:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by David Kleinecke
But I have a problem with "the "pull" vowel because I can't
hear consistently whether that means the "put" or the "putt"
vowel.
"Pull" and "put" have the same phoneme for me, although the /l/ alters
the preceding vowel sound noticeably.
After carefully observing my mouth shape, and trying variants like
"pult", I have concluded that I have exactly the same vowel in "pull"
and "put".
My "putt" vowel is totally different, but that's unhelpful because we
already know that that vowel doesn't exist in most varieties of AmE. I
say [pVt], but as I understand it most varieties of AmE say either
Orthographically, <putt> (also <mutt>) is the odd word out; it goes with <but cut gut jut nut rut Tut>. My broad transcription of this set has [V ʌ], while
<foot put> have [U ʊ]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirshenbaum tells me that
your [V"] is [ɜ], but since that's the symbol for BrE r-less stressed "er," I
don't see how you could be having us putting it in "putt."

Quinn C
2017-04-27 21:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
For a good reason. On a hoofed animal the hoof is part of the foot not
the whole of it. FMD affects the fleshy part of the animal's foot rather
than the hoof.
A hoof is the animal equivalent of a human toenail. Both are made of
keratin and both grow and if not worn down in normal living need to be
trimmed/clipped.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoof
A hoof (/'hu?f/ or /'h?f/), plural hooves (/'hu?vz/ or /'h?vz/) or
hoofs /'h?fs/, is the tip of a toe of an ungulate mammal,
strengthened by a thick, horny, keratin covering.
That was interesting. I've never seen all the different plurals actually
listed before. The short ('pull' vowel versions seems to be gaining
ground), and I'm starting to hear that in 'roof' too.
Of course, in correct English, that is, mine, the words are
hoof [hUf] ("pull" vowel)
hooves [hUvz]
roof [ruf] ("pool" vowel)
roofs [rufs]
That's odd - the combinations [Ufs] and [uvz] sound more natural
to me than your [Uvz] and [ufs]. Does anybody know which ones are
more common?
--
The Eskimoes had fifty-two names for snow because it was
important to them, there ought to be as many for love.
-- Margaret Atwood, Surfacing (novel), p.106
Tony Cooper
2017-04-20 13:30:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
I have not returned the book to the library, so I checked on Wood's
usage.

The book jacket blurb uses "hoof-and-mouth disease". However, that is
written by or for the publisher, not the author of the book. The
publisher is Minotaur Books, NY.

The first mention by Wood uses "foot-and-mouth" and in other
references to the disease "FMD".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
b***@aol.com
2017-04-20 13:58:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by GordonD
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK.
ObAue - it's called 'foot-and-mouth' in the UK.
I have not returned the book to the library, so I checked on Wood's
usage.
The book jacket blurb uses "hoof-and-mouth disease". However, that is
written by or for the publisher, not the author of the book. The
publisher is
Minotaur Books,
That might explain the confusion.
Post by Tony Cooper
NY.
The first mention by Wood uses "foot-and-mouth" and in other
references to the disease "FMD".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter Moylan
2017-04-20 15:34:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
The book jacket blurb uses "hoof-and-mouth disease". However, that is
written by or for the publisher, not the author of the book. The
publisher is Minotaur Books, NY.
As I understand it, a minotaur has a mouth but not a hoof.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Andy Leighton
2017-04-20 08:57:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
It's a well-written book set in Yorkshire that deals with the time of
the hoof-and-mouth epidemic in the UK. It's the second book I've read
by Wood, and I'd check out a third if there is one. (Library book)
Except, though, her other books are science fiction and I don't do SF.
Wood was born in Connecticut (USA) and lives in New Zealand, but the
two books I've read are set in Yorkshire. I wouldn't recognize any
Yorkshire/UK gaffes,
Well if he referred to it as hoof-and-mouth that is one obvious UK
gaffe - we call the disease foot-and-mouth.
--
Andy Leighton => ***@azaal.plus.com
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!"
- Douglas Adams
Lewis
2017-04-20 13:26:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
I'd guess it is something the author made up or something from his
family or friends.

We had several of these when I was growing up, which had complicated and
varying degrees of remoteness. The one I remember best was BFE (Bum Fuck
Egypt/Butt Fuck Egypt) which I have no idea from whence we got it, but
was common among my friends in the late 70s and through the 80s.
Sometimes, especially if questioned by an adult, it stood for "Butt Fart
East"

We used it, mostly, to refer to the outlying suburbs and not to actual
rural areas, and it was nearly always said "Bee eff Ee".

"I don't want to you to <store in Aurora, CO>, that's all the way in
BFE."

I've not heard it in probably 20 years other than sometimes talking with
my brother in law where we often fall into the same patterns from our
high school days with his friends or my friends.
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
I've heard this before, but it seems odd for a word from Tagalog to
becomes a relatively common word in American English.
--
Imagine all the people Sharing all the world
Tony Cooper
2017-04-20 14:09:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:26:48 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
I'd guess it is something the author made up or something from his
family or friends.
Not that it makes any difference to the point made, but Lee Woods is
female and I did use "she" in my original post.

Add "Lee" to the names that can be used by either males or females. My
roommate in Chicago was a Lee, and he was a "he".

The author of this book is "N. Lee Wood". No explanation provided for
what the "N." stands for.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Lewis
2017-04-20 23:52:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:26:48 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
I'd guess it is something the author made up or something from his
family or friends.
Not that it makes any difference to the point made, but Lee Woods is
female and I did use "she" in my original post.
Oops.
Post by Tony Cooper
Add "Lee" to the names that can be used by either males or females. My
roommate in Chicago was a Lee, and he was a "he".
Usually "Lee" is male and Leigh is female, but I missed it entirely in
your original post.
Post by Tony Cooper
The author of this book is "N. Lee Wood". No explanation provided for
what the "N." stands for.
Nata, obvs.
--
Q is for QUENTIN who sank in the mire
R is for RHODA consumed by a fire
Tony Cooper
2017-04-21 01:46:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:52:53 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:26:48 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
I'd guess it is something the author made up or something from his
family or friends.
Not that it makes any difference to the point made, but Lee Woods is
female and I did use "she" in my original post.
Oops.
Post by Tony Cooper
Add "Lee" to the names that can be used by either males or females. My
roommate in Chicago was a Lee, and he was a "he".
Usually "Lee" is male and Leigh is female, but I missed it entirely in
your original post.
I have met some females with the name Lee/Leigh. However, I have not
seen any of their names written or what was on their birth
certificate.'
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
The author of this book is "N. Lee Wood". No explanation provided for
what the "N." stands for.
Nata, obvs.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Ross
2017-04-21 02:35:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:52:53 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:26:48 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
I'd guess it is something the author made up or something from his
family or friends.
Not that it makes any difference to the point made, but Lee Woods is
female and I did use "she" in my original post.
Oops.
Post by Tony Cooper
Add "Lee" to the names that can be used by either males or females. My
roommate in Chicago was a Lee, and he was a "he".
Usually "Lee" is male and Leigh is female, but I missed it entirely in
your original post.
I have met some females with the name Lee/Leigh. However, I have not
seen any of their names written or what was on their birth
certificate.'
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
The author of this book is "N. Lee Wood". No explanation provided for
what the "N." stands for.
Nata, obvs.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Some years ago I met a woman named "Lee", then a year or two later
found out that it was spelled <Lea>. Is that the normal pronunciation
of <Lea> in English? I think I'd always assumed it was "Lee-ah".
Tony Cooper
2017-04-21 04:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:52:53 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:26:48 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
I'd guess it is something the author made up or something from his
family or friends.
Not that it makes any difference to the point made, but Lee Woods is
female and I did use "she" in my original post.
Oops.
Post by Tony Cooper
Add "Lee" to the names that can be used by either males or females. My
roommate in Chicago was a Lee, and he was a "he".
Usually "Lee" is male and Leigh is female, but I missed it entirely in
your original post.
I have met some females with the name Lee/Leigh. However, I have not
seen any of their names written or what was on their birth
certificate.'
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
The author of this book is "N. Lee Wood". No explanation provided for
what the "N." stands for.
Nata, obvs.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Some years ago I met a woman named "Lee", then a year or two later
found out that it was spelled <Lea>. Is that the normal pronunciation
of <Lea> in English? I think I'd always assumed it was "Lee-ah".
The only "Lee-ah" I've met spelled it Leah.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
RH Draney
2017-04-21 12:58:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ross
Some years ago I met a woman named "Lee", then a year or two later
found out that it was spelled <Lea>. Is that the normal pronunciation
of <Lea> in English? I think I'd always assumed it was "Lee-ah".
The only "Lee-ah" I've met spelled it Leah.
That's how Donnie Iris spelled and pronounced it, but I'm not sure we
can put much stock in him, since he also spelled his own surname
"Ierace"....

However, there is the actress Lea (with two syllables) Thompson, known
for the television show "Caroline in the City", the "Back to the Future"
film series, and the movie "Howard the Duck"....r
Jerry Friedman
2017-04-21 13:37:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 4/20/17 8:35 PM, Ross wrote:

[N. Lee Wood, etc.]
Post by Ross
Some years ago I met a woman named "Lee", then a year or two later
found out that it was spelled <Lea>. Is that the normal pronunciation
of <Lea> in English? I think I'd always assumed it was "Lee-ah".
"Lee" is the normal pronunciation if a lowing herd is winding slowly
o'er it, but I don't know whether there are enough people named "Lea" to
say there's a normal pronunciation of it as a name. But then I'd never
heard of the actress who R mentioned.
--
Jerry Friedman
Tony Cooper
2017-04-21 14:41:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 07:37:27 -0600, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
[N. Lee Wood, etc.]
Post by Ross
Some years ago I met a woman named "Lee", then a year or two later
found out that it was spelled <Lea>. Is that the normal pronunciation
of <Lea> in English? I think I'd always assumed it was "Lee-ah".
"Lee" is the normal pronunciation if a lowing herd is winding slowly
o'er it, but I don't know whether there are enough people named "Lea" to
say there's a normal pronunciation of it as a name. But then I'd never
heard of the actress who R mentioned.
I've never heard of the actress, either. So I pick up today's
newspaper and see that Lea Thompson is here in Orlando appearing at
the Florida Film Festival at a screening of "Back to the Future".

I can attend the event for $50, the price of a general admission
ticket, or $125 for a backstage pass and a meet-and-greet.

The article about her says that her scenes in her very first movie
role were shot here in Orlando. The movie was "Jaws 3-D".

Don't ask me why a movie about a shark was filmed in Orlando when we
are 90 miles from the ocean. (A shorter distance if one is a flying
crow)

Since her appearance is Sunday night, there's not enough time to do a
whip-round of readers of this group who want to contribute to my
purchase of a backstage pass so I can ask her how to pronounce her
name.

Pity.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-21 15:05:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 07:37:27 -0600, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
[N. Lee Wood, etc.]
Post by Ross
Some years ago I met a woman named "Lee", then a year or two later
found out that it was spelled <Lea>. Is that the normal pronunciation
of <Lea> in English? I think I'd always assumed it was "Lee-ah".
"Lee" is the normal pronunciation if a lowing herd is winding slowly
o'er it, but I don't know whether there are enough people named "Lea" to
say there's a normal pronunciation of it as a name. But then I'd never
heard of the actress who R mentioned.
I've never heard of the actress, either. So I pick up today's
newspaper and see that Lea Thompson is here in Orlando appearing at
the Florida Film Festival at a screening of "Back to the Future".
I can attend the event for $50, the price of a general admission
ticket, or $125 for a backstage pass and a meet-and-greet.
The article about her says that her scenes in her very first movie
role were shot here in Orlando. The movie was "Jaws 3-D".
Don't ask me why a movie about a shark was filmed in Orlando when we
are 90 miles from the ocean. (A shorter distance if one is a flying
crow)
Since her appearance is Sunday night, there's not enough time to do a
whip-round of readers of this group who want to contribute to my
purchase of a backstage pass so I can ask her how to pronounce her
name.
Pity.
It was recently established here that emcees never make a mistake in pronouncing celebrities'
names, so you can simply go to the unrestricted event and listen as she is introduced.

The pronunciation of Téa Leoni, currently of *Madam Secretary*, is presumably more predictable.
Lewis
2017-04-21 22:31:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
I've never heard of the actress, either. So I pick up today's
newspaper and see that Lea Thompson is here in Orlando appearing at
the Florida Film Festival at a screening of "Back to the Future".
[ ... ]
Post by Tony Cooper
Since her appearance is Sunday night, there's not enough time to do a
whip-round of readers of this group who want to contribute to my
purchase of a backstage pass so I can ask her how to pronounce her
name.
She pronounces it Lee-ah.
--
Always be sincere, even if you don't mean it.
HVS
2017-04-21 23:31:09 UTC
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Raw Message
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 22:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
I've never heard of the actress, either. So I pick up today's
newspaper and see that Lea Thompson is here in Orlando appearing at
the Florida Film Festival at a screening of "Back to the Future".
[ ... ]
Post by Tony Cooper
Since her appearance is Sunday night, there's not enough time to do a
whip-round of readers of this group who want to contribute to my
purchase of a backstage pass so I can ask her how to pronounce her
name.
She pronounces it Lee-ah.
I've not been following this thread, so has anybody mentioned Lee
Remick?

She'd be my default spelling for a female named "Lee".
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years),
indiscriminately mixed
Mack A. Damia
2017-04-21 23:50:30 UTC
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Post by HVS
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 22:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
I've never heard of the actress, either. So I pick up today's
newspaper and see that Lea Thompson is here in Orlando appearing
at
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
the Florida Film Festival at a screening of "Back to the Future".
[ ... ]
Post by Tony Cooper
Since her appearance is Sunday night, there's not enough time to
do a
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
whip-round of readers of this group who want to contribute to my
purchase of a backstage pass so I can ask her how to pronounce her
name.
She pronounces it Lee-ah.
I've not been following this thread, so has anybody mentioned Lee
Remick?
She'd be my default spelling for a female named "Lee".
So have a good chuckle and get it out of your system right now,
mister.....

PANTIES
HVS
2017-04-21 23:58:54 UTC
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On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:50:30 -0700, Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 00:31:09 +0100, HVS
Post by HVS
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 22:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
I've never heard of the actress, either. So I pick up today's
newspaper and see that Lea Thompson is here in Orlando
appearing
Post by HVS
at
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
the Florida Film Festival at a screening of "Back to the
Future".
Post by HVS
Post by Lewis
[ ... ]
Post by Tony Cooper
Since her appearance is Sunday night, there's not enough time to
do a
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
whip-round of readers of this group who want to contribute to my
purchase of a backstage pass so I can ask her how to pronounce her
name.
She pronounces it Lee-ah.
I've not been following this thread, so has anybody mentioned Lee
Remick?
She'd be my default spelling for a female named "Lee".
So have a good chuckle and get it out of your system right now,
mister.....
PANTIES
Aw - give a kid a break: I was a teenager when I was became aware of
her.....
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years),
indiscriminately mixed
Mack A. Damia
2017-04-22 01:58:42 UTC
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Post by HVS
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:50:30 -0700, Mack A. Damia
On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 00:31:09 +0100, HVS
Post by HVS
On Fri, 21 Apr 2017 22:31:27 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Cooper
Post by HVS
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
I've never heard of the actress, either. So I pick up today's
newspaper and see that Lea Thompson is here in Orlando
appearing
Post by HVS
at
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
the Florida Film Festival at a screening of "Back to the
Future".
Post by HVS
Post by Lewis
[ ... ]
Post by Tony Cooper
Since her appearance is Sunday night, there's not enough time
to
Post by HVS
do a
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
whip-round of readers of this group who want to contribute to
my
Post by HVS
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
purchase of a backstage pass so I can ask her how to pronounce
her
Post by HVS
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
name.
She pronounces it Lee-ah.
I've not been following this thread, so has anybody mentioned Lee
Remick?
She'd be my default spelling for a female named "Lee".
So have a good chuckle and get it out of your system right now,
mister.....
PANTIES
Aw - give a kid a break: I was a teenager when I was became aware of
her.....

RH Draney
2017-04-22 03:08:13 UTC
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Raw Message
I've not been following this thread, so has anybody mentioned Lee Remick?
She'd be my default spelling for a female named "Lee".
Mine too, but if we're picking actresses, I'd much rather obsess over
Leigh Taylor-Young....r
Quinn C
2017-04-24 02:20:13 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by RH Draney
I've not been following this thread, so has anybody mentioned Lee Remick?
She'd be my default spelling for a female named "Lee".
Mine too, but if we're picking actresses, I'd much rather obsess over
Leigh Taylor-Young....r
I might prefer Lee Si Young, but that's not fair - Lee is the
family name.
--
The country has its quota of fools and windbags; such people are
most prominent in politics, where their inherent weaknesses seem
less glaring and attract less ridicule than they would in other
walks of life. -- Robert Bothwell et.al.: Canada since 1945
Robert Bannister
2017-04-24 02:11:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:52:53 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:26:48 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
I'd guess it is something the author made up or something from his
family or friends.
Not that it makes any difference to the point made, but Lee Woods is
female and I did use "she" in my original post.
Oops.
Post by Tony Cooper
Add "Lee" to the names that can be used by either males or females. My
roommate in Chicago was a Lee, and he was a "he".
Usually "Lee" is male and Leigh is female, but I missed it entirely in
your original post.
I have met some females with the name Lee/Leigh. However, I have not
seen any of their names written or what was on their birth
certificate.'
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
The author of this book is "N. Lee Wood". No explanation provided for
what the "N." stands for.
Nata, obvs.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Some years ago I met a woman named "Lee", then a year or two later
found out that it was spelled <Lea>. Is that the normal pronunciation
of <Lea> in English? I think I'd always assumed it was "Lee-ah".
Surely that is "Leah", which I have certainly come across a few times. I
would not expect "Lea" to be pronounced differently from "Lee".
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Lewis
2017-04-24 06:02:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:52:53 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:26:48 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
I'd guess it is something the author made up or something from his
family or friends.
Not that it makes any difference to the point made, but Lee Woods is
female and I did use "she" in my original post.
Oops.
Post by Tony Cooper
Add "Lee" to the names that can be used by either males or females. My
roommate in Chicago was a Lee, and he was a "he".
Usually "Lee" is male and Leigh is female, but I missed it entirely in
your original post.
I have met some females with the name Lee/Leigh. However, I have not
seen any of their names written or what was on their birth
certificate.'
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
The author of this book is "N. Lee Wood". No explanation provided for
what the "N." stands for.
Nata, obvs.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Some years ago I met a woman named "Lee", then a year or two later
found out that it was spelled <Lea>. Is that the normal pronunciation
of <Lea> in English? I think I'd always assumed it was "Lee-ah".
Surely that is "Leah", which I have certainly come across a few times. I
would not expect "Lea" to be pronounced differently from "Lee".
This would indicate it's normally pronounced lee-ah:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lea_(given_name)> <1>
"Lea is a feminine given name. In French the name Léa is the biblical
name Leah (given name). In Spanish the same name is Lía, and in Italian
Lia."

In addition to Lea Thompson (lee-ah) there is Lea Michelle (also
Lee-ah) who is 25 years younger (best known for being on Glee and has
also recorded several albums, though I have no idea how successful those
have been), and the French actress Léa Seydoux (Inglorious Basterds).

None of the other names jumped out at me, but of the three names there
that I know, all are pronounced with two syllables.

<1> The link may not work as some parsers will barf on the final ')'
character)
--
Can I borrow your underpants for 10 minutes?
Quinn C
2017-04-24 19:09:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lewis
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:52:53 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:26:48 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
I'd guess it is something the author made up or something from his
family or friends.
Not that it makes any difference to the point made, but Lee Woods is
female and I did use "she" in my original post.
Oops.
Post by Tony Cooper
Add "Lee" to the names that can be used by either males or females. My
roommate in Chicago was a Lee, and he was a "he".
Usually "Lee" is male and Leigh is female, but I missed it entirely in
your original post.
I have met some females with the name Lee/Leigh. However, I have not
seen any of their names written or what was on their birth
certificate.'
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
The author of this book is "N. Lee Wood". No explanation provided for
what the "N." stands for.
Nata, obvs.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Some years ago I met a woman named "Lee", then a year or two later
found out that it was spelled <Lea>. Is that the normal pronunciation
of <Lea> in English? I think I'd always assumed it was "Lee-ah".
Surely that is "Leah", which I have certainly come across a few times. I
would not expect "Lea" to be pronounced differently from "Lee".
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lea_(given_name)> <1>
"Lea is a feminine given name. In French the name Léa is the biblical
name Leah (given name). In Spanish the same name is Lía, and in Italian
Lia."
In addition to Lea Thompson (lee-ah) there is Lea Michelle (also
Lee-ah) who is 25 years younger (best known for being on Glee and has
also recorded several albums, though I have no idea how successful those
have been), and the French actress Léa Seydoux (Inglorious Basterds).
None of the other names jumped out at me, but of the three names there
that I know, all are pronounced with two syllables.
Also Lea DeLaria:

--
The country has its quota of fools and windbags; such people are
most prominent in politics, where their inherent weaknesses seem
less glaring and attract less ridicule than they would in other
walks of life. -- Robert Bothwell et.al.: Canada since 1945
Anders D. Nygaard
2017-04-23 10:48:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 23:52:53 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 20 Apr 2017 13:26:48 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
I'd guess it is something the author made up or something from his
family or friends.
Not that it makes any difference to the point made, but Lee Woods is
female and I did use "she" in my original post.
Oops.
Post by Tony Cooper
Add "Lee" to the names that can be used by either males or females. My
roommate in Chicago was a Lee, and he was a "he".
Usually "Lee" is male and Leigh is female, but I missed it entirely in
your original post.
I have met some females with the name Lee/Leigh. However, I have not
seen any of their names written or what was on their birth
certificate.'
Lee Remick, anybody?

/Anders, Denmark
Ross
2017-04-20 20:55:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
In a novel book by Lee Wood, a character says "A rural station, out in
the tooliewamps." It is then explained that "tooliewamps" is an
American expression meaning very rural. As we'd really say, "Out in
the boondocks".
No Google definition of "tooliewamps". The only hit is a quote from
the book.
I'd guess it is something the author made up or something from his
family or friends.
We had several of these when I was growing up, which had complicated and
varying degrees of remoteness. The one I remember best was BFE (Bum Fuck
Egypt/Butt Fuck Egypt) which I have no idea from whence we got it, but
was common among my friends in the late 70s and through the 80s.
Sometimes, especially if questioned by an adult, it stood for "Butt Fart
East"
We used it, mostly, to refer to the outlying suburbs and not to actual
rural areas, and it was nearly always said "Bee eff Ee".
"I don't want to you to <store in Aurora, CO>, that's all the way in
BFE."
I've not heard it in probably 20 years other than sometimes talking with
my brother in law where we often fall into the same patterns from our
high school days with his friends or my friends.
Post by Tony Cooper
"Boondocks", btw, is from the Tagalog word "bundok" meaning mountain,
but is used to mean anywhere remote.
I've heard this before, but it seems odd for a word from Tagalog to
becomes a relatively common word in American English.
It makes more sense if you remember that the Philippines were ceded to
the United Stated by Spain after the Spanish-American War (1898),
which was followed by three years of fighting between US forces and
Filipinos who wanted independence. Plenty of opportunity there for
some Americans to learn some Tagalog. In particular it seems that the
US Marine Corps picked up "boondocks" at this time as a bit of in-group
slang. It was not until WWII that it became more widely known in AmEng.
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