Luton

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

A designated post-war "overspill" town (to move decentralise population
from London). Faceless: a Steinian "there is no there there" place.

--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian (30 years) and British (23 years)
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van

Sara Lorimer

2005-10-10 21:10:35 UTC

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

A designated post-war "overspill" town (to move decentralise population
from London). Faceless: a Steinian "there is no there there" place.

Ah -- that makes sense, thanks. Is it tough? Full of crime? Or just
nondescript?

--
SML

Mike Page

2005-10-10 21:19:18 UTC

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

A designated post-war "overspill" town (to move decentralise population
from London). Faceless: a Steinian "there is no there there" place.

Ah -- that makes sense, thanks. Is it tough? Full of crime? Or just
nondescript?

Fairly nondescript (except when the Watford derby is played).

Mike Page

Ross Howard

2005-10-10 21:55:11 UTC

Post by Mike Page

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

A designated post-war "overspill" town (to move decentralise population
from London). Faceless: a Steinian "there is no there there" place.

Ah -- that makes sense, thanks. Is it tough? Full of crime? Or just
nondescript?

Fairly nondescript (except when the Watford derby is played).

Yes, it's one of those towns like Reading, Aldershot or Basingstoke --
too close to London to have any real identity of their own yet too far
away to be worth shlepping out to.

--
Ross Howard

Harvey Van Sickle

2005-10-10 21:28:36 UTC

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

A designated post-war "overspill" town (to move decentralise
population from London). Faceless: a Steinian "there is no
there there" place.

Ah -- that makes sense, thanks. Is it tough? Full of crime? Or
just nondescript?

As Mike says, fairly nondescript.

It's known for a couple of large blue-collar industries -- car-making
and an ever-expanding airport -- rather than being a hotbed of
depravity and crime.

--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian (30 years) and British (23 years)
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van

Laura F. Spira

2005-10-10 21:32:54 UTC

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

A designated post-war "overspill" town (to move decentralise
population from London). Faceless: a Steinian "there is no
there there" place.

Ah -- that makes sense, thanks. Is it tough? Full of crime? Or
just nondescript?

As Mike says, fairly nondescript.
It's known for a couple of large blue-collar industries -- car-making
and an ever-expanding airport -- rather than being a hotbed of
depravity and crime.

It used to be famous for the production of hats.

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Harvey Van Sickle

2005-10-10 21:33:21 UTC

re: Luton

Post by Harvey Van Sickle
It's known for a couple of large blue-collar industries --
car-making and an ever-expanding airport -- rather than being a
hotbed of depravity and crime.

It used to be famous for the production of hats.

I'd forgotten that. (Like Godalming and gloves, which became Godalming
and stockbrokers.)

--
Cheers, Harvey
Canadian (30 years) and British (23 years)
For e-mail, change harvey.news to harvey.van

mUs1Ka

2005-10-10 22:00:50 UTC

Post by Harvey Van Sickle
re: Luton

Post by Harvey Van Sickle
It's known for a couple of large blue-collar industries --
car-making and an ever-expanding airport -- rather than being a
hotbed of depravity and crime.

It used to be famous for the production of hats.

I'd forgotten that. (Like Godalming and gloves, which became
Godalming and stockbrokers.)

Not forgetting the Luton Girls Choir.

--
Ray

Ross Howard

2005-10-10 22:07:05 UTC

Post by mUs1Ka

Post by Harvey Van Sickle
re: Luton

Post by Harvey Van Sickle
It's known for a couple of large blue-collar industries --
car-making and an ever-expanding airport -- rather than being a
hotbed of depravity and crime.

It used to be famous for the production of hats.

I'd forgotten that. (Like Godalming and gloves, which became
Godalming and stockbrokers.)

Not forgetting the Luton Girls Choir.

Or Capt. Ján Ludvik Hoch's foopball holding, even.

Hell, it turns out that in its own quiet way, Luton's famous for more
things than Manchester! (Coming right up: The Luton Sound takes the
world by storm.)

--
Ross Howard

Frances Kemmish

2005-10-11 13:47:09 UTC

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

A designated post-war "overspill" town (to move decentralise
population from London). Faceless: a Steinian "there is no
there there" place.

Ah -- that makes sense, thanks. Is it tough? Full of crime? Or
just nondescript?

As Mike says, fairly nondescript.
It's known for a couple of large blue-collar industries -- car-making
and an ever-expanding airport -- rather than being a hotbed of
depravity and crime.

It used to be famous for the production of hats.

I remember watching the 1959 FA Cup Final on TV. Nottingham Forest beat
Luton Town. Many of the Luton supporters wore straw boaters. The other
thing I remember about the match was that one of the Forest players
broke his leg.

The player who broke his leg was, apparently, Elton John's uncle.

Fran

John Dean

2005-10-11 14:30:50 UTC

Post by Frances Kemmish

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

A designated post-war "overspill" town (to move decentralise
population from London). Faceless: a Steinian "there is no
there there" place.

Ah -- that makes sense, thanks. Is it tough? Full of crime? Or
just nondescript?

As Mike says, fairly nondescript.
It's known for a couple of large blue-collar industries --
car-making and an ever-expanding airport -- rather than being a
hotbed of depravity and crime.

It used to be famous for the production of hats.

I remember watching the 1959 FA Cup Final on TV. Nottingham Forest
beat Luton Town. Many of the Luton supporters wore straw boaters. The
other thing I remember about the match was that one of the Forest
players broke his leg.
The player who broke his leg was, apparently, Elton John's uncle.

And Luton Town FC are known as the Hatters. As Forest are sometimes
referred to as the Garibaldi Reds.

--
John Dean
Oxford

Tony Cooper

2005-10-11 21:34:54 UTC

On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:30:50 +0100, "John Dean"

Post by John Dean
And Luton Town FC are known as the Hatters. As Forest are sometimes
referred to as the Garibaldi Reds.

The sports teams of a university near here are called the Hatters.
The school is Stetson University.

--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

CDB

2005-10-12 00:34:03 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:30:50 +0100, "John Dean"

Post by John Dean
And Luton Town FC are known as the Hatters. As Forest are sometimes
referred to as the Garibaldi Reds.

The sports teams of a university near here are called the Hatters.
The school is Stetson University.

In Quebec's Eastern Townships, Bishop's University fields the Gators.

Tony Cooper

2005-10-12 01:08:00 UTC

Post by CDB

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:30:50 +0100, "John Dean"

Post by John Dean
And Luton Town FC are known as the Hatters. As Forest are sometimes
referred to as the Garibaldi Reds.

The sports teams of a university near here are called the Hatters.
The school is Stetson University.

In Quebec's Eastern Townships, Bishop's University fields the Gators.

Should have been the Gaiters.

--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Evan Kirshenbaum

2005-10-12 03:39:24 UTC

Post by CDB

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005 15:30:50 +0100, "John Dean"

Post by John Dean
And Luton Town FC are known as the Hatters. As Forest are
sometimes referred to as the Garibaldi Reds.

The sports teams of a university near here are called the Hatters.
The school is Stetson University.

In Quebec's Eastern Townships, Bishop's University fields the
Gators.

Should have been the Gaiters.

Then there's the University of Connecticut Huskies.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Now every hacker knows
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 | That the secret to survivin'
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |Is knowin' when the time is free
| And what's the load and queue
***@hpl.hp.com |'Cause everyone's a cruncher
(650)857-7572 | And everyone's a user
|And the best that you can hope for
http://www.kirshenbaum.net/ | Is a crash when you're through

Frances Kemmish

2005-10-12 12:20:51 UTC

Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
Then there's the University of Connecticut Huskies.

That was always my favourite, until I heard about Macon GA:

Loading Image...

Fran

CDB

2005-10-12 13:12:24 UTC

[...]

Post by CDB
In Quebec's Eastern Townships, Bishop's University fields the
Gators.

Should have been the Gaiters.

The university's crest features one, wearing some.

CDB

2005-10-12 13:20:57 UTC

[...]

Post by CDB
In Quebec's Eastern Townships, Bishop's University fields the
Gators.

Should have been the Gaiters.

Thought I couldn't find one; but here is the idea, in little:
www.ubishops.ca/ccc/tour/main.htm .

Mark Brader

2005-10-11 23:12:49 UTC

Post by Frances Kemmish
The player who broke his leg was, apparently, Elton John's uncle.

Interesting ambiguity. From context it seems that Elton John's uncle
was the victim of an accident during the game. But taking the sentence
in isolation, it would also be possible for "his" to refer to a
different player. That is, the uncle could have collided with the
other player -- or even assaulted him deliberately -- and so broken
the *other* player's leg.

--
Mark Brader, Toronto "The language should match the users,
***@vex.net not vice versa" -- Brian W. Kernighan

Philip Eden

2005-10-12 15:16:09 UTC

Post by Mark Brader

Post by Frances Kemmish
The player who broke his leg was, apparently, Elton John's uncle.

Taking the sentence in isolation the person with the broken leg
could have been Elton John.

Philip Eden

John Dean

2005-10-10 23:41:54 UTC

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

A designated post-war "overspill" town (to move decentralise
population from London). Faceless: a Steinian "there is no there
there" place.

Ah -- that makes sense, thanks. Is it tough? Full of crime? Or just
nondescript?

Tough-ish. Memorable in UK pop culture for the TV advert some years ago
in which a ravishing (well, it was Lorraine Chase but the specs called
for ravishing and so was she deemed by the creatives) young woman in a
tropical setting is asked "Were you truly wafted here from paradise?" to
which she replies in an Eliza Doolittle voice "Naow. Lu'on Airpo'."

--
John Dean
Oxford

Matti Lamprhey

2005-10-12 14:27:46 UTC

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

A designated post-war "overspill" town (to move decentralise
population from London). Faceless: a Steinian "there is no there"
place.

A couple of years ago people were polled in an attempt to discover
Britain's most unappealing town. On that occasion it turned out to be
(Kingston-upon-)Hull. This was such fun that it was repeated last year,
and Luton headed the poll of "Crap Towns" on that occasion.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1313345,00.html

Matti

Tony Cooper

2005-10-12 14:37:11 UTC

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:27:46 +0100, "Matti Lamprhey"

Post by Matti Lamprhey

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

A designated post-war "overspill" town (to move decentralise
population from London). Faceless: a Steinian "there is no there"
place.

I've read several of Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries and just think of
Luton as an industrial town based on these books. Joe is retired from
company there and trying to make it as a private eye if I recall
correctly.

However, there have been several references to Luton in various Python
sketches that portray in the sense of "Crap Town". I don't recall any
mention of Hull in Python sketches. I don't think any English town
has achieved really crap status unless the status has been verified by
the Flying Circus.

--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

Ross Howard

2005-10-12 14:45:50 UTC

On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 14:37:11 GMT, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:27:46 +0100, "Matti Lamprhey"

Post by Matti Lamprhey

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

A designated post-war "overspill" town (to move decentralise
population from London). Faceless: a Steinian "there is no there"
place.

I've read several of Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries and just think of
Luton as an industrial town based on these books. Joe is retired from
company there and trying to make it as a private eye if I recall
correctly.
However, there have been several references to Luton in various Python
sketches that portray in the sense of "Crap Town". I don't recall any
mention of Hull in Python sketches. I don't think any English town
has achieved really crap status unless the status has been verified by
the Flying Circus.

Rather than crap towns, the Pythons tended to take the piss out of
cosy, middle-class, stockbroker-belt places like Purley or Cheam,
which may be really, really boring towns but they're not really crap.

--
Ross Howard

the Omrud

2005-10-12 15:05:28 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
However, there have been several references to Luton in various Python
sketches that portray in the sense of "Crap Town". I don't recall any
mention of Hull in Python sketches. I don't think any English town
has achieved really crap status unless the status has been verified by
the Flying Circus.

Apart from Michael Palin (Derbyshire) and of course Terry Gilliam, I
think the Pythons were all Southerners. I doubt whether any of them
had more than the vaguest notion in the early 70s about where Hull
might be situated or what it was like. But Luton is between
Cambridge and London, and so clearly on their radar.

--
David
=====
replace usenet with the

Frances Kemmish

2005-10-13 03:33:45 UTC

I didn't know that Michael Palin was from Derbyshire; I thought he came
from Sheffield. I looked up the rest of the Monty Python people (that I
could remember) on IMDB. According to that site:

Graham Chapman came from Leicester; Terry Jones came from North Wales;
Eric Idle came from South Shields.

John Cleese came from Weston-super-mare: that counts as south.

Fran

the Omrud

2005-10-13 07:44:35 UTC

Post by Frances Kemmish

I didn't know that Michael Palin was from Derbyshire; I thought he came
from Sheffield. I looked up the rest of the Monty Python people (that I

I thought he was from Buxton - the people of Buxton certainly like to
claim him as a Buxton export.

Post by Frances Kemmish
Graham Chapman came from Leicester; Terry Jones came from North Wales;
Eric Idle came from South Shields.

AIUI Terry Jones was born in Wales but his family moved to London
when he was too young to know anything about it. I didn't know about
Eric Idle being from the North East - if so then he would know about
Hull. Leicester is borderline.

Post by Frances Kemmish
John Cleese came from Weston-super-mare: that counts as south.

Yes - this was occasionally commented on in I'm Sorry I'll Read That
Again.

--
David
=====
replace usenet with the

Frances Kemmish

2005-10-13 11:23:22 UTC

Post by Frances Kemmish
I didn't know that Michael Palin was from Derbyshire; I thought he came
from Sheffield. I looked up the rest of the Monty Python people (that I

I thought he was from Buxton - the people of Buxton certainly like to
claim him as a Buxton export.

I know that Tim Brooke-Taylor came from Buxton, but I didn't know that
Michael Palin did.

Fran

the Omrud

2005-10-13 15:44:27 UTC

Post by Frances Kemmish

Post by Frances Kemmish
I didn't know that Michael Palin was from Derbyshire; I thought he came
from Sheffield. I looked up the rest of the Monty Python people (that I

I thought he was from Buxton - the people of Buxton certainly like to
claim him as a Buxton export.

I know that Tim Brooke-Taylor came from Buxton, but I didn't know that
Michael Palin did.

Ah, in that case age may have withered the membranes between my
memory pigeon holes for these two gentlemen.

--
David
=====
replace usenet with the

Mike Barnes

2005-10-13 15:27:34 UTC

Post by Frances Kemmish
I didn't know that Michael Palin was from Derbyshire; I thought he came
from Sheffield. I looked up the rest of the Monty Python people (that I

I thought he was from Buxton - the people of Buxton certainly like to
claim him as a Buxton export.

Tim Brooke-Taylor was from Buxton.

--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England

Tony Cooper

2005-10-13 16:21:54 UTC

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:27:34 +0100, Mike Barnes

Post by Frances Kemmish
I didn't know that Michael Palin was from Derbyshire; I thought he came
from Sheffield. I looked up the rest of the Monty Python people (that I

I thought he was from Buxton - the people of Buxton certainly like to
claim him as a Buxton export.

Tim Brooke-Taylor was from Buxton.

I had to look up Tim Brooke-Taylor to know, but he appears to be still
among the living. If so, isn't he still from Buxton?

--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

the Omrud

2005-10-13 16:47:12 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:27:34 +0100, Mike Barnes

Post by Frances Kemmish
I didn't know that Michael Palin was from Derbyshire; I thought he came
from Sheffield. I looked up the rest of the Monty Python people (that I

I thought he was from Buxton - the people of Buxton certainly like to
claim him as a Buxton export.

Tim Brooke-Taylor was from Buxton.

I had to look up Tim Brooke-Taylor to know, but he appears to be still
among the living. If so, isn't he still from Buxton?

Nah, like most luvvies, he'll have emigrated to Hampstead.

--
David
=====
replace usenet with the

Ross Howard

2005-10-13 17:03:28 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:27:34 +0100, Mike Barnes

Post by Frances Kemmish
I didn't know that Michael Palin was from Derbyshire; I thought he came
from Sheffield. I looked up the rest of the Monty Python people (that I

I thought he was from Buxton - the people of Buxton certainly like to
claim him as a Buxton export.

Tim Brooke-Taylor was from Buxton.

I had to look up Tim Brooke-Taylor to know, but he appears to be still
among the living. If so, isn't he still from Buxton?

Nah, like most luvvies, he'll have emigrated to Hampstead.

No luvvie I, but I emigrated to Hampstead in the late '70s. And you're
right, it was indeed a chock-a-block with luvvies and Lanson lefties
of all kinds -- Jeremy Irons and Sinead, Peter Cook (who lived too
close to Oddbins for his own good), Michael Foot And His Duffel Coat
And His Dog (the three were inseparable), John Hurt (a regular at
Sketchley's dry cleaners -- a messy eater, perhaps?), John le Carré,
Lulu . . . .

Going to the shops was like visiting Madame Tussauds.

--
Ross Howard

Tony Cooper

2005-10-13 18:21:06 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:27:34 +0100, Mike Barnes

Post by Frances Kemmish
I didn't know that Michael Palin was from Derbyshire; I thought he came
from Sheffield. I looked up the rest of the Monty Python people (that I

I thought he was from Buxton - the people of Buxton certainly like to
claim him as a Buxton export.

Tim Brooke-Taylor was from Buxton.

I had to look up Tim Brooke-Taylor to know, but he appears to be still
among the living. If so, isn't he still from Buxton?

Nah, like most luvvies, he'll have emigrated to Hampstead.

The common understanding of "from" is where the person was born or
grew up. He's from Buxton, and will always be from Buxton, but lives
in Hampstead.

--
Tony Cooper
Orlando, FL

the Omrud

2005-10-13 19:18:14 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 16:27:34 +0100, Mike Barnes

Post by Frances Kemmish
I didn't know that Michael Palin was from Derbyshire; I thought he came
from Sheffield. I looked up the rest of the Monty Python people (that I

I thought he was from Buxton - the people of Buxton certainly like to
claim him as a Buxton export.

Tim Brooke-Taylor was from Buxton.

I had to look up Tim Brooke-Taylor to know, but he appears to be still
among the living. If so, isn't he still from Buxton?

Nah, like most luvvies, he'll have emigrated to Hampstead.

The common understanding of "from" is where the person was born or
grew up. He's from Buxton, and will always be from Buxton, but lives
in Hampstead.

Yes. I was being awkward.

--
David
=====
replace usenet with the

Django Cat

2005-10-10 21:57:26 UTC

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and much is
made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate to an English
reader?

John Hegley, greatest living English Poet.

Start here: http://www.johnhegley.co.uk/networds/docs/artinluton.htm

DC, eating his crouton.

Skitt

2005-10-10 22:38:11 UTC

Post by Django Cat

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and much
is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate to an
English reader?

John Hegley, greatest living English Poet.
Start here: http://www.johnhegley.co.uk/networds/docs/artinluton.htm
DC, eating his crouton.

Just the one, eh?

--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/

Django Cat

2005-10-11 20:11:47 UTC

Post by Skitt

Post by Django Cat

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

John Hegley, greatest living English Poet.
Start here: http://www.johnhegley.co.uk/networds/docs/artinluton.htm
DC, eating his crouton.

Just the one, eh?

Well, according to Mr Hegley:-

"LUTON

(a poem about the town of my upbringing and the conflict between my
working class origins and the middle class status conferred upon me by
a university education)

I remember Luton
as I'm swallowing my crouton."

If this helps the OP, Hegley is a performance poet who makes a lot of
his origins in the deeply dull, while at the same time pretty rough,
town of Luton. Luton is commuter dullsville, but close enough to
London to have its own deep tedium thrown into perspective by the
city's bright lights - I bet there are similar palces round New York...
hang on, I've been to Newark! Just think the same but about 30 miles
further out...

While Hegley's nerd persona can be very funny, he is also a sharp and
perceptive poet. This is my favourite:-

http://www.real153.com/content/pat/

DC

Laura F. Spira

2005-10-11 20:45:19 UTC

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate
to an English reader?

John Hegley, greatest living English Poet.
Start here: http://www.johnhegley.co.uk/networds/docs/artinluton.htm
DC, eating his crouton.

Just the one, eh?

Well, according to Mr Hegley:-
"LUTON
(a poem about the town of my upbringing and the conflict between my
working class origins and the middle class status conferred upon me by
a university education)
I remember Luton
as I'm swallowing my crouton."
If this helps the OP, Hegley is a performance poet who makes a lot of
his origins in the deeply dull, while at the same time pretty rough,
town of Luton. Luton is commuter dullsville, but close enough to
London to have its own deep tedium thrown into perspective by the
city's bright lights - I bet there are similar palces round New York...
hang on, I've been to Newark! Just think the same but about 30 miles
further out...
While Hegley's nerd persona can be very funny, he is also a sharp and
perceptive poet. This is my favourite:-
http://www.real153.com/content/pat/

That is *excellent*! Thank you!

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

Django Cat

2005-10-12 14:00:23 UTC

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and
much is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton"
indicate to an English reader?

John Hegley, greatest living English Poet.
http://www.johnhegley.co.uk/networds/docs/artinluton.htm
DC, eating his crouton.

Just the one, eh?

Well, according to Mr Hegley:-
"LUTON
(a poem about the town of my upbringing and the conflict between my
working class origins and the middle class status conferred upon me
by a university education)
I remember Luton
as I'm swallowing my crouton."
If this helps the OP, Hegley is a performance poet who makes a lot
of his origins in the deeply dull, while at the same time pretty
rough, town of Luton. Luton is commuter dullsville, but close
enough to London to have its own deep tedium thrown into
perspective by the city's bright lights - I bet there are similar
palces round New York... hang on, I've been to Newark! Just think
the same but about 30 miles further out...
While Hegley's nerd persona can be very funny, he is also a sharp
and perceptive poet. This is my favourite:-
http://www.real153.com/content/pat/

That is excellent! Thank you!

Good isn't it? Who could resist being described as 'cataclysmically
desirable'?

DC

Sara Lorimer

2005-10-12 01:07:08 UTC

Post by Django Cat
If this helps the OP, Hegley is a performance poet who makes a lot of
his origins in the deeply dull, while at the same time pretty rough,
town of Luton. Luton is commuter dullsville, but close enough to
London to have its own deep tedium thrown into perspective by the
city's bright lights - I bet there are similar palces round New York...
hang on, I've been to Newark! Just think the same but about 30 miles
further out...
While Hegley's nerd persona can be very funny, he is also a sharp and
perceptive poet. This is my favourite:-
http://www.real153.com/content/pat/

That does help. I will keep the poem in mind as I try to understand that
which is Luton.

--
SML

Django Cat

2005-10-12 14:03:27 UTC

Post by Django Cat
If this helps the OP, Hegley is a performance poet who makes a lot
of his origins in the deeply dull, while at the same time pretty
rough, town of Luton. Luton is commuter dullsville, but close
enough to London to have its own deep tedium thrown into
perspective by the city's bright lights - I bet there are similar
palces round New York... hang on, I've been to Newark! Just think
the same but about 30 miles further out...
While Hegley's nerd persona can be very funny, he is also a sharp
and perceptive poet. This is my favourite:-
http://www.real153.com/content/pat/

That does help. I will keep the poem in mind as I try to understand
that which is Luton.

Glad to be of service...
DC

Philip Eden

2005-10-10 23:11:12 UTC

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and much is
made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate to an English
reader?

As a not disinterested observer, all I can add is an old story
I have told here before. A modern languages lecturer of my
acquaintance once asked me where I was from. On hearing
my answer, he brayed, "Ah, Luton, Luton, where they
pronounce neither their vowels nor their consonants."

Philip Eden
Luton, UK.

Mike Lyle

2005-10-11 00:12:22 UTC

Post by Philip Eden

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and

much

Post by Philip Eden

Post by Sara Lorimer
is made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate to an
English reader?

Like the well-known Cardiff broadcaster who said he was learning
Welsh as a second language, then paused and added, "Mind you, I don't
suppose in Caadiff we've got a language to staat from."

--
Mike.

Graeme Thomas

2005-10-10 23:14:42 UTC

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and much is
made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate to an English
reader?

Others have noted that it's a nondescript place.

The airport is sometimes, misleadingly, described as "London's 4th
airport". It serves mainly charter aircraft -- many of the flights
leaving for the Costa Brava set off from Luton.

It has a very large Moslem population.

It's most recent claim to fame was that the 7/7 (=AmE "7/7") bombers met
there before catching their train into London.

--
Graeme Thomas

the Omrud

2005-10-11 12:55:22 UTC

Post by Graeme Thomas

Post by Sara Lorimer
I'm reading one of Reginald Hill's Joe Sixsmith mysteries, and much is
made of Joe being from Luton. What does "Luton" indicate to an English
reader?

That may have been true 10 years ago but I suspect that the majority
of departures are now low-cost scheduled flights by Easyjet and Ryan
Air. It is officially named "London Luton Airport" which doesn't
fool anybody:
http://www.london-luton.co.uk/en/

It was the home of manufacturing for Vauxhall Cars (the UK branding
of Opel which is the European arm of General Motors), and also had a
proud history of making light vans and small lorries such as Bedford.
I think the car plant is now closed.

Post by Graeme Thomas
It has a very large Moslem population.
It's most recent claim to fame was that the 7/7 (=AmE "7/7") bombers met
there before catching their train into London.

And it's nicer than Hull.

--
David
=====
replace usenet with the

j***@yahoo.com

2005-10-11 23:30:21 UTC

Graeme Thomas wrote:
...

Post by Graeme Thomas
It's most recent claim to fame was that the 7/7 (=AmE "7/7") bombers met
there before catching their train into London.

Ah, the reverse of Mark Brader's "in the U.S. it's $10,000, but in
Canada it's only $10,000."

--
Jerry Friedman

Charles Riggs

2005-10-12 08:33:32 UTC

Post by j***@yahoo.com
...

Post by Graeme Thomas
It's most recent claim to fame was that the 7/7 (=AmE "7/7") bombers met
there before catching their train into London.

Ah, the reverse of Mark Brader's "in the U.S. it's $10,000, but in
Canada it's only $10,000."

Which even makes sense if you assume, as is reasonable, that the first
dollar sign refers to US dollars and the second to Canadian ones.

--
Charles Riggs

j***@yahoo.com

2005-10-12 19:43:57 UTC

Post by Charles Riggs

Post by j***@yahoo.com
...

Post by Graeme Thomas
It's most recent claim to fame was that the 7/7 (=AmE "7/7") bombers met
there before catching their train into London.

Ah, the reverse of Mark Brader's "in the U.S. it's $10,000, but in
Canada it's only $10,000."

Which even makes sense if you assume, as is reasonable, that the first
dollar sign refers to US dollars and the second to Canadian ones.

It not only makes sense (NPI); I thought it was funny, as I thought
Graeme's parenthesis was.

--
Jerry Friedman changed and shortened Mark's remark considerably.

Philip Eden

2005-10-12 15:23:52 UTC