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deliver
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tonbei
2017-04-16 01:23:59 UTC
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a question about the meaning of "deliver"
in the following passage from a book


Politicians could run Pennsylvania and Ohio, and if they could not run Chicago they could at least deliver it.
(The Best and the Brightest by D. Halberstam)

question: about the meaning of "deliver it"
I couldn't even guess what's meant by the phrase.
Or does it mean that they could make a public promise to run such a big city although they couldn't do it.
But it doesn't seem to make sense.
tonbei
2017-04-16 01:31:44 UTC
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I've got one idea, but I'm not sure if it's true.

"deliver it" means:
Politicians could convey voices of a big city's people such as Chicago's, although they couldn't manage it.
Horace LaBadie
2017-04-16 03:24:35 UTC
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Post by tonbei
I've got one idea, but I'm not sure if it's true.
Politicians could convey voices of a big city's people such as Chicago's,
although they couldn't manage it.
Deliver the votes of the city's populace to their candidate.
Tony Cooper
2017-04-16 01:48:28 UTC
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Post by tonbei
a question about the meaning of "deliver"
in the following passage from a book
Politicians could run Pennsylvania and Ohio, and if they could not run Chicago they could at least deliver it.
(The Best and the Brightest by D. Halberstam)
question: about the meaning of "deliver it"
I couldn't even guess what's meant by the phrase.
Or does it mean that they could make a public promise to run such a big city although they couldn't do it.
But it doesn't seem to make sense.
"Deliver it", in this context, means secure enough votes for the
candidate of choice to be elected. It is a reference to the
Democratic machine delivering enough votes for John F. Kennedy to
defeat Richard Nixon in 1960. JFK received a suspiciously high number
of votes in Cook County. While there are other cities in Cook County,
Chicago is the major city, and the Democratic machine ruled all of
Cook County in those days.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-16 03:12:18 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
Post by tonbei
a question about the meaning of "deliver"
in the following passage from a book
Politicians could run Pennsylvania and Ohio, and if they could not run Chicago they could at least deliver it.
(The Best and the Brightest by D. Halberstam)
question: about the meaning of "deliver it"
I couldn't even guess what's meant by the phrase.
Or does it mean that they could make a public promise to run such a big city although they couldn't do it.
But it doesn't seem to make sense.
"Deliver it", in this context, means secure enough votes for the
candidate of choice to be elected. It is a reference to the
Democratic machine delivering enough votes for John F. Kennedy to
defeat Richard Nixon in 1960. JFK received a suspiciously high number
of votes in Cook County. While there are other cities in Cook County,
Chicago is the major city, and the Democratic machine ruled all of
Cook County in those days.
And Nixon received a suspiciously high number of votes in Downstate Illinois,
so he wasn't so foolish as to challenge the Chicago numbers.

Parties in Illinois are run at the county level: it was the Cook County
Democratic machine. The real Mayor Daley,* it was said, would never walk
through the county part of the City-County Building that housed both his
and the City Council's offices, and the Cook County offices. The Cook
County Democratic Committee never met in that building, but in a hotel
across the street.

* That is, Richard J., as opposed to his son Richard M.
Rich Ulrich
2017-04-16 03:22:18 UTC
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 21:48:28 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by tonbei
a question about the meaning of "deliver"
in the following passage from a book
Politicians could run Pennsylvania and Ohio, and if they could not run Chicago they could at least deliver it.
(The Best and the Brightest by D. Halberstam)
question: about the meaning of "deliver it"
I couldn't even guess what's meant by the phrase.
Or does it mean that they could make a public promise to run such a big city although they couldn't do it.
But it doesn't seem to make sense.
"Deliver it", in this context, means secure enough votes for the
candidate of choice to be elected. It is a reference to the
Democratic machine delivering enough votes for John F. Kennedy to
defeat Richard Nixon in 1960. JFK received a suspiciously high number
of votes in Cook County. While there are other cities in Cook County,
Chicago is the major city, and the Democratic machine ruled all of
Cook County in those days.
As I heard it, an important fact that Nixon may have considered
when he did not challenge the outcome is that Nixon himself received
"a suspiciously high number of votes" in the suburbs.

In 1968, I worked with a fellow who claimed that he, though a
(Chicago) teen and too young to vote, voted all day long in that
1960 election. That is, he was carried in a truck (with others) from
poll to poll where he would vote as instructed. He was paid. He
said he kept himself from guilt by spending half the day working for
the Democrats and the other half working for the Republicans.

That sort of fraud seems to be have elminated not long after that
election, except from D. Trump's imagination.
--
Rich Ulrich
Cheryl
2017-04-16 10:06:32 UTC
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Post by tonbei
a question about the meaning of "deliver"
in the following passage from a book
Politicians could run Pennsylvania and Ohio, and if they could not run Chicago they could at least deliver it.
(The Best and the Brightest by D. Halberstam)
question: about the meaning of "deliver it"
I couldn't even guess what's meant by the phrase.
Or does it mean that they could make a public promise to run such a big city although they couldn't do it.
But it doesn't seem to make sense.
They couldn't run Chicago on a day-to-day basis, but they could deliver
the votes of the people of Chicago to whoever they wanted.

That is, if the politicians promised some national party leader that the
people of Chicago would vote for Party X, that's who they'd vote for,
even if the same politicians were incapable of seeing that ordinary
day-to-day work of garbage collection, road repair, ensuring good
schools, hospitals and law enforcement was carried out.
--
Cheryl
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-16 11:11:29 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
Post by tonbei
a question about the meaning of "deliver"
in the following passage from a book
Politicians could run Pennsylvania and Ohio, and if they could not run Chicago they could at least deliver it.
(The Best and the Brightest by D. Halberstam)
question: about the meaning of "deliver it"
I couldn't even guess what's meant by the phrase.
Or does it mean that they could make a public promise to run such a big city although they couldn't do it.
But it doesn't seem to make sense.
They couldn't run Chicago on a day-to-day basis,
Why do you say that?
Post by Cheryl
but they could deliver
the votes of the people of Chicago to whoever they wanted.
That is, if the politicians promised some national party leader that the
people of Chicago would vote for Party X, that's who they'd vote for,
No, they supported only Democrats.
Post by Cheryl
even if the same politicians were incapable of seeing that ordinary
day-to-day work of garbage collection, road repair, ensuring good
schools, hospitals and law enforcement was carried out.
You seem not to have lived in Chicago in the "machine" days.
Horace LaBadie
2017-04-16 11:37:19 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Cheryl
Post by tonbei
a question about the meaning of "deliver"
in the following passage from a book
Politicians could run Pennsylvania and Ohio, and if they could not run
Chicago they could at least deliver it.
(The Best and the Brightest by D. Halberstam)
question: about the meaning of "deliver it"
I couldn't even guess what's meant by the phrase.
Or does it mean that they could make a public promise to run such a big
city although they couldn't do it.
But it doesn't seem to make sense.
They couldn't run Chicago on a day-to-day basis,
Why do you say that?
Post by Cheryl
but they could deliver
the votes of the people of Chicago to whoever they wanted.
That is, if the politicians promised some national party leader that the
people of Chicago would vote for Party X, that's who they'd vote for,
No, they supported only Democrats.
Post by Cheryl
even if the same politicians were incapable of seeing that ordinary
day-to-day work of garbage collection, road repair, ensuring good
schools, hospitals and law enforcement was carried out.
You seem not to have lived in Chicago in the "machine" days.
And it's been twenty years since the death of Mike Royko, who wrote
Boss, the story of Richard J. Daley.

<http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-mike-royko-20-y
ears-death-perspec-0416-20170414-story.html>
Tony Cooper
2017-04-16 14:13:27 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
Post by tonbei
a question about the meaning of "deliver"
in the following passage from a book
Politicians could run Pennsylvania and Ohio, and if they could not run Chicago they could at least deliver it.
(The Best and the Brightest by D. Halberstam)
question: about the meaning of "deliver it"
I couldn't even guess what's meant by the phrase.
Or does it mean that they could make a public promise to run such a big city although they couldn't do it.
But it doesn't seem to make sense.
They couldn't run Chicago on a day-to-day basis, but they could deliver
the votes of the people of Chicago to whoever they wanted.
That is, if the politicians promised some national party leader that the
people of Chicago would vote for Party X, that's who they'd vote for,
even if the same politicians were incapable of seeing that ordinary
day-to-day work of garbage collection, road repair, ensuring good
schools, hospitals and law enforcement was carried out.
I know what Halberstam was referring to, but I haven't read the book
and don't know the specific context. It's a reference to the
Democratic political organization in Cook County being able to deliver
votes for John F. Kennedy in the 1960 election, but I don't know why
he'd say the politicians couldn't run Chicago on a day-to-day basis.

They did. And very effectively. The political organization was truly
a well-oiled machine that ran one of the country's largest cities as
well as any large city could be run.

Perhaps the politicians that Halberstam is specifically referring to
were not the local Democrats, but some other politicians involved in
JFK's campaign or national politics.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Cheryl
2017-04-16 19:30:38 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Cheryl
Post by tonbei
a question about the meaning of "deliver"
in the following passage from a book
Politicians could run Pennsylvania and Ohio, and if they could not run Chicago they could at least deliver it.
(The Best and the Brightest by D. Halberstam)
question: about the meaning of "deliver it"
I couldn't even guess what's meant by the phrase.
Or does it mean that they could make a public promise to run such a big city although they couldn't do it.
But it doesn't seem to make sense.
They couldn't run Chicago on a day-to-day basis, but they could deliver
the votes of the people of Chicago to whoever they wanted.
That is, if the politicians promised some national party leader that the
people of Chicago would vote for Party X, that's who they'd vote for,
even if the same politicians were incapable of seeing that ordinary
day-to-day work of garbage collection, road repair, ensuring good
schools, hospitals and law enforcement was carried out.
I know what Halberstam was referring to, but I haven't read the book
and don't know the specific context. It's a reference to the
Democratic political organization in Cook County being able to deliver
votes for John F. Kennedy in the 1960 election, but I don't know why
he'd say the politicians couldn't run Chicago on a day-to-day basis.
They did. And very effectively. The political organization was truly
a well-oiled machine that ran one of the country's largest cities as
well as any large city could be run.
Perhaps the politicians that Halberstam is specifically referring to
were not the local Democrats, but some other politicians involved in
JFK's campaign or national politics.
I thought it was probably a local reference, but I went for a more
general explanation of the term.
--
Cheryl
Don Phillipson
2017-04-16 12:31:03 UTC
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Post by tonbei
a question about the meaning of "deliver"
in the following passage from a book
Politicians could run Pennsylvania and Ohio, and if they could not run
Chicago
they could at least deliver it.
(The Best and the Brightest by D. Halberstam)
question: about the meaning of "deliver it"
I couldn't even guess what's meant by the phrase.
Or does it mean that they could make a public promise to run such a big
city
although they couldn't do it.
But it doesn't seem to make sense.
This word acquired two new shades of meaning in the late
20th century.
#1: "Deliver" = "control the vote of." E.g. Tammany Hall (a
real political club in 19th century New York) could deliver
the Irish vote = the votes of all Irish-descented people.
#2: "Deliver" = "fulfil promises," usually political promises.
E.g. the Centre Party congress could deliver medical
insurance but not capital punishment. We nowadays read
of "deliverables" meaning political promises that are
practically achievable.

Halberstam's usage looks like #1.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
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