Discussion:
OT: The racism of low expectations
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Harrison Hill
2018-08-09 15:40:06 UTC
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With the absurd Boris Johnson so-called "row" rumbling along, it is
yet another example of "the racism of low expectations", which
prevents freedom of speech within the communities who need it most:

"Echoing statements made by people like Sam Harris and Bill Maher,
activist Maajid Nawaz criticizes those on the “Regressive Left” who
refuse to call out Islam even when that condemnation is warranted —
like when women are treated as second class citizens or cultural
practices which would never be accepted in other contexts (ObAUE).

"It’s what I call the racism of low expectations: to lower those
standards when looking at a brown person, if a brown person happens to
express a level of misogyny, chauvinism, bigotry, or anti-Semitism,
and yet hold other white people to universal liberal standards. The
real victim of that double standard are the minority communities
themselves because by doing so we limit their horizons; we limit their
own ceiling and expectations as to what they aspire to be; we’re
judging them as somehow that their culture is inherently less civilized;
and, of course, we are tolerating bigotry within communities, and the
first victims of that bigotry happen to be those who are weakest from
among those communities".

<http://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2015/11/19/activist-maajid-nawaz-criticizes-the-regressive-left-for-allowing-bigotry-in-religious-contexts/>
Madhu
2018-08-09 15:57:00 UTC
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Post by Harrison Hill
"It’s what I call the racism of low expectations: to lower those
standards when looking at a brown person, if a brown person happens to
express a level of misogyny, chauvinism, bigotry, or anti-Semitism,
and yet hold other white people to universal liberal standards. The
real victim of that double standard are the minority communities
themselves because by doing so we limit their horizons; we limit their
own ceiling and expectations as to what they aspire to be; we’re
judging them as somehow that their culture is inherently less civilized;
and, of course, we are tolerating bigotry within communities, and the
first victims of that bigotry happen to be those who are weakest from
among those communities".
Perhaps that is the real goal. The persecution and disenfranchisement
of the majority is just an added bonus in the establishement of the
kingdom of the antichrist.
Post by Harrison Hill
<2015/11/19/activist-maajid-nawaz-criticizes-the-regressive-left-for-allowing-bigotry-in-religious-contexts/>
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-08-09 16:09:34 UTC
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Post by Harrison Hill
With the absurd Boris Johnson so-called "row" rumbling along, it is
Which are you calling absurd, Boris Johnson or the so-called "row"?
--
athel
Paul Carmichael
2018-08-09 16:24:31 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Harrison Hill
With the absurd Boris Johnson so-called "row" rumbling along, it is
Which are you calling absurd, Boris Johnson or the so-called "row"?
I think the name is being used adjectivally. Maybe a comma after absurd would help.
--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/
https://asetrad.org
Harrison Hill
2018-08-09 16:50:41 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Harrison Hill
With the absurd Boris Johnson so-called "row" rumbling along, it is
Which are you calling absurd, Boris Johnson or the so-called "row"?
This week (unconnected to the above), a highly paid Asian
professional complained that his career prospects are hampered -
not because he is:

1) Non-white.
2) Muslim.

...but because he is not part of the heavy-drinking culture. When
contracts are being awarded: casual friend A knows from casual friend
B that casual friend C, has told him about an upcoming contract.

There's no discrimination involved. You don't hear about new contracts
unless you are in the social loop.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-08-09 17:23:56 UTC
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Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Harrison Hill
With the absurd Boris Johnson so-called "row" rumbling along, it is
Which are you calling absurd, Boris Johnson or the so-called "row"?
This week (unconnected to the above),
How about now answering the question, which was, after all, an
English-usage question?

I really don't what your "absurd" was supposed to refer to.

Maybe if you're a Boris Johnson admirer (which wouldn't surprise me all
that much) you regard the answer as obvious.
--
athel
Harrison Hill
2018-08-09 18:10:14 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Harrison Hill
With the absurd Boris Johnson so-called "row" rumbling along, it is
Which are you calling absurd, Boris Johnson or the so-called "row"?
This week (unconnected to the above),
How about now answering the question, which was, after all, an
English-usage question?
I really don't what your "absurd" was supposed to refer to.
Maybe if you're a Boris Johnson admirer (which wouldn't surprise me all
that much) you regard the answer as obvious.
I don't consider myself "a Boris Johnson admirer" - any more
than I consider myself (say) "a Jacob Rees-Mogg" admirer. I reject
the latter's attempts to subvert "Walter the Softy" for his own
personal ends :)

I'm a Ken Livingstone supporter - and a supporter of anybody else
who believes in free speech. I don't believe in women being
pressured into covering themselves suitably. My adopted Mum Janet
will be along shortly, and she won't half give you what for.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-08-09 22:02:00 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Harrison Hill
With the absurd Boris Johnson so-called "row" rumbling along, it is
Which are you calling absurd, Boris Johnson or the so-called "row"?
This week (unconnected to the above),
How about now answering the question, which was, after all, an
English-usage question?
I really don't what your "absurd" was supposed to refer to.
Maybe if you're a Boris Johnson admirer (which wouldn't surprise me all
that much) you regard the answer as obvious.
One really doesn't need to be an admirer of BoJo to recognise the
furore as a very thinly disguised attempt to make political capital
out of sod all by those who would wish him ill or have ambitions
to institute a tyrannical snowflake charter forbidding all opinions
contrary to the great god PC.
Janet
2018-08-10 09:35:32 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
One really doesn't need to be an admirer of BoJo to recognise the
furore as a very thinly disguised attempt to make political capital
out of sod all by those who would wish him ill or have ambitions
to institute a tyrannical snowflake charter forbidding all opinions
contrary to the great god PC.
Boris was making his own political capital by canvassing approval
from and encouraging, anti-islamic bigotry. Another grubby tactic he
borrowed from Trump.

The last thing the UK needs is politicians who stoop to Trump's
level, government by a cheap-laughs showman making a fool of himself on
the world stage.


Janet.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-08-10 10:09:12 UTC
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Post by Janet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
One really doesn't need to be an admirer of BoJo to recognise the
furore as a very thinly disguised attempt to make political capital
out of sod all by those who would wish him ill or have ambitions
to institute a tyrannical snowflake charter forbidding all opinions
contrary to the great god PC.
Boris was making his own political capital by canvassing approval
from and encouraging, anti-islamic bigotry. Another grubby tactic he
borrowed from Trump.
That is manifestly not what happened at all. In fact the article he
wrote openly criticises the anti-Islamic policies of other European
Governments such as France and Denmark. That an aside, which,
frankly, the majority of UK Moslems totally agree with, is being
scurrilously magnified at the expense of all sense and logic
certainly demonstrates the shabbiness of UK politics but the grubby
tactics can not, on this occasion, be laid at the door of the Boris.
Quinn C
2018-08-10 17:03:14 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
One really doesn't need to be an admirer of BoJo to recognise the
furore as a very thinly disguised attempt to make political capital
out of sod all by those who would wish him ill or have ambitions
to institute a tyrannical snowflake charter forbidding all opinions
contrary to the great god PC.
Boris was making his own political capital by canvassing approval
from and encouraging, anti-islamic bigotry. Another grubby tactic he
borrowed from Trump.
That is manifestly not what happened at all. In fact the article he
wrote openly criticises the anti-Islamic policies of other European
Governments such as France and Denmark.
I don't see the contradiction yet.
--
We say, 'If any lady or gentleman shall buy this article _____ shall
have it for five dollars.' The blank may be filled with he, she, it,
or they; or in any other manner; and yet the form of the expression
will be too vulgar to be uttered. -- Wkly Jrnl of Commerce (1839)
Harrison Hill
2018-08-10 11:56:24 UTC
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Post by Janet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
One really doesn't need to be an admirer of BoJo to recognise the
furore as a very thinly disguised attempt to make political capital
out of sod all by those who would wish him ill or have ambitions
to institute a tyrannical snowflake charter forbidding all opinions
contrary to the great god PC.
Boris was making his own political capital by canvassing approval
from and encouraging, anti-islamic bigotry. Another grubby tactic he
borrowed from Trump.
The last thing the UK needs is politicians who stoop to Trump's
level, government by a cheap-laughs showman making a fool of himself on
the world stage.
<QUOTE>

Dr Taj Hargey, the imam at the Oxford Islamic Congregation, has said
the MP should “not apologise for telling the truth”.

In a letter to the Times, he wrote: “The burka and niqab are hideous
tribal ninja-like garments that are pre-Islamic, non-Koranic and
therefore un-Muslim.

“Although this deliberate identity-concealing contraption is banned
at the Kaaba in Mecca it is permitted in Britain, thus precipitating
security risks, accelerating vitamin D deficiency, endorsing gender-
inequality and inhibiting community cohesion.”

He added that Mr Johnson “did not go far enough” in his column for
the Daily Telegraph on Monday, which sparked widespread outcry.

</QUOTE>

<https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/he-did-not-go-far-enough-leading-imam-defends-boris-johnson-over-controversial-burka-comments-amid-a3907106.html>
HVS
2018-08-10 15:29:46 UTC
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Post by Janet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
One really doesn't need to be an admirer of BoJo to recognise the
furore as a very thinly disguised attempt to make political capital
out of sod all by those who would wish him ill or have ambitions
to institute a tyrannical snowflake charter forbidding all opinions
contrary to the great god PC.
Boris was making his own political capital by canvassing approval
from and encouraging, anti-islamic bigotry. Another grubby tactic he
borrowed from Trump.
The last thing the UK needs is politicians who stoop to Trump's
level, government by a cheap-laughs showman making a fool of himself on
the world stage.
I agree that Boris was canvassing anti-islamic bigotry, but it's part of a
longer game he's been playing.

It's fairly obvious to me that Johnson is determined to claim some sort of
victimhood/matyrdom status on behalf of Brexit voters, or the anti-PC
brigarde, or the ultra-conservative grassroots. He doesn't care which one
he can claim his martyrdom for.

I'm convinced his idiocies as Foreign Secretary were fully intended to
force May to sack him: he didn't want to resign, as being sacked is more
obviously translatable to "they're trying to silence me".

She wouldn't do it, and his virtually-forced resignation stymied that
route, so now he's looking for a different cause to hang his standard from,
and has alighted on portraying himself as simply speaking obvious truths:
after all, burqas do look somewhat letter-boxish, and ne'er-do-wells do
cover their faces to avoid identification.

It's plausibly deniable dog-whistling, and it's working as planned. I've
read at least one outraged letter-writer who compared saying a woman in a
burqa looks like a letter-box to saying that nuns look like penguins, and
that he wasn't about to stop saying the latter.

That line of reasoning will find great favour with the constituency that
Johnson is courting, even though it's clearly false equivalence: I can't
recall the last time I heard of penguin-looking nuns being the target of
racial or religious hatred as they went about their daily business.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
Harrison Hill
2018-08-10 15:54:07 UTC
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Post by HVS
Post by Janet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
One really doesn't need to be an admirer of BoJo to recognise the
furore as a very thinly disguised attempt to make political capital
out of sod all by those who would wish him ill or have ambitions
to institute a tyrannical snowflake charter forbidding all opinions
contrary to the great god PC.
Boris was making his own political capital by canvassing approval
from and encouraging, anti-islamic bigotry. Another grubby tactic he
borrowed from Trump.
The last thing the UK needs is politicians who stoop to Trump's
level, government by a cheap-laughs showman making a fool of himself on
the world stage.
I agree that Boris was canvassing anti-islamic bigotry, but it's part of a
longer game he's been playing.
It's fairly obvious to me that Johnson is determined to claim some sort of
victimhood/matyrdom status on behalf of Brexit voters, or the anti-PC
brigarde, or the ultra-conservative grassroots. He doesn't care which one
he can claim his martyrdom for.
I'm convinced his idiocies as Foreign Secretary were fully intended to
force May to sack him: he didn't want to resign, as being sacked is more
obviously translatable to "they're trying to silence me".
She wouldn't do it, and his virtually-forced resignation stymied that
route, so now he's looking for a different cause to hang his standard from,
after all, burqas do look somewhat letter-boxish, and ne'er-do-wells do
cover their faces to avoid identification.
It's plausibly deniable dog-whistling, and it's working as planned. I've
read at least one outraged letter-writer who compared saying a woman in a
burqa looks like a letter-box to saying that nuns look like penguins, and
that he wasn't about to stop saying the latter.
That line of reasoning will find great favour with the constituency that
Johnson is courting, even though it's clearly false equivalence: I can't
recall the last time I heard of penguin-looking nuns being the target of
racial or religious hatred as they went about their daily business.
The biggest problem moderate Moslems have is that they are attacked
by the liberal elite. Do you believe adulteresses should be stoned
to death? Do you believe apostasy and blasphemy deserve the death
sentence? How about homosexuality?

Do your "penguin-looking nuns" invoke any of that sort of cruelty?
Of course they don't - they are kind and caring. They reach out to
people who are unlike themselves. Try to support *moderate* Moslems,
who are fighting a losing battle - and need all the help they can get.
Harrison Hill
2018-08-10 16:32:06 UTC
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Post by Harrison Hill
Post by HVS
Post by Janet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
One really doesn't need to be an admirer of BoJo to recognise the
furore as a very thinly disguised attempt to make political capital
out of sod all by those who would wish him ill or have ambitions
to institute a tyrannical snowflake charter forbidding all opinions
contrary to the great god PC.
Boris was making his own political capital by canvassing approval
from and encouraging, anti-islamic bigotry. Another grubby tactic he
borrowed from Trump.
The last thing the UK needs is politicians who stoop to Trump's
level, government by a cheap-laughs showman making a fool of himself on
the world stage.
I agree that Boris was canvassing anti-islamic bigotry, but it's part of a
longer game he's been playing.
It's fairly obvious to me that Johnson is determined to claim some sort of
victimhood/matyrdom status on behalf of Brexit voters, or the anti-PC
brigarde, or the ultra-conservative grassroots. He doesn't care which one
he can claim his martyrdom for.
I'm convinced his idiocies as Foreign Secretary were fully intended to
force May to sack him: he didn't want to resign, as being sacked is more
obviously translatable to "they're trying to silence me".
She wouldn't do it, and his virtually-forced resignation stymied that
route, so now he's looking for a different cause to hang his standard from,
after all, burqas do look somewhat letter-boxish, and ne'er-do-wells do
cover their faces to avoid identification.
It's plausibly deniable dog-whistling, and it's working as planned. I've
read at least one outraged letter-writer who compared saying a woman in a
burqa looks like a letter-box to saying that nuns look like penguins, and
that he wasn't about to stop saying the latter.
That line of reasoning will find great favour with the constituency that
Johnson is courting, even though it's clearly false equivalence: I can't
recall the last time I heard of penguin-looking nuns being the target of
racial or religious hatred as they went about their daily business.
The biggest problem moderate Moslems have is that they are attacked
by the liberal elite. Do you believe adulteresses should be stoned
to death? Do you believe apostasy and blasphemy deserve the death
sentence? How about homosexuality?
Do your "penguin-looking nuns" invoke any of that sort of cruelty?
Of course they don't - they are kind and caring. They reach out to
people who are unlike themselves. Try to support *moderate* Moslems,
who are fighting a losing battle - and need all the help they can get.
In our Reformation "women vicars", and who'd ever have imagined that
possible:


Sam Plusnet
2018-08-10 23:13:38 UTC
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Post by HVS
Post by Janet
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
One really doesn't need to be an admirer of BoJo to recognise the
furore as a very thinly disguised attempt to make political capital
out of sod all by those who would wish him ill or have ambitions
to institute a tyrannical snowflake charter forbidding all opinions
contrary to the great god PC.
Boris was making his own political capital by canvassing approval
from and encouraging, anti-islamic bigotry. Another grubby tactic he
borrowed from Trump.
The last thing the UK needs is politicians who stoop to Trump's
level, government by a cheap-laughs showman making a fool of himself on
the world stage.
I agree that Boris was canvassing anti-islamic bigotry, but it's part of a
longer game he's been playing.
It's fairly obvious to me that Johnson is determined to claim some sort of
victimhood/matyrdom status on behalf of Brexit voters, or the anti-PC
brigarde, or the ultra-conservative grassroots. He doesn't care which one
he can claim his martyrdom for.
I'm convinced his idiocies as Foreign Secretary were fully intended to
force May to sack him: he didn't want to resign, as being sacked is more
obviously translatable to "they're trying to silence me".
She wouldn't do it, and his virtually-forced resignation stymied that
route, so now he's looking for a different cause to hang his standard from,
after all, burqas do look somewhat letter-boxish, and ne'er-do-wells do
cover their faces to avoid identification.
It's plausibly deniable dog-whistling, and it's working as planned. I've
read at least one outraged letter-writer who compared saying a woman in a
burqa looks like a letter-box to saying that nuns look like penguins, and
that he wasn't about to stop saying the latter.
That line of reasoning will find great favour with the constituency that
Johnson is courting, even though it's clearly false equivalence: I can't
recall the last time I heard of penguin-looking nuns being the target of
racial or religious hatred as they went about their daily business.
The other important point is that this flurry of headlines and articles
keeps Johnson's name on the front page and firmly in the public's gaze.
--
Sam Plusnet
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