Discussion:
Joyce: winnowed of vigour
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Marius Hancu
2017-04-18 20:58:28 UTC
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Hello,

~~~
[Lenehan throws in short comments on Corley's stories about women]

When he was quite sure that the narrative had ended he laughed
noiselessly for fully half a minute. Then he said:

'Well!... That takes the biscuit!'

His voice seemed winnowed of vigour; and to enforce his words he added
with humour:

'That takes the solitary, unique, and, if I may so call it, recherche
biscuit!'

James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants)
~~~

Re:
"winnowed of vigour"

The meaning I've found for "winnowed"
~~~
winnowed
free of useless, unwanted, or baser components
~~~
tells me that in this definition the element winnowed away is undesirable,
while Joyce's "vigour" is definitely desirable.

Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?

Thanks.
--
Marius Hancu
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-18 21:35:30 UTC
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Post by Marius Hancu
~~~
[Lenehan throws in short comments on Corley's stories about women]
When he was quite sure that the narrative had ended he laughed
'Well!... That takes the biscuit!'
His voice seemed winnowed of vigour; and to enforce his words he added
'That takes the solitary, unique, and, if I may so call it, recherche
biscuit!'
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants)
~~~
"winnowed of vigour"
The meaning I've found for "winnowed"
~~~
winnowed
free of useless, unwanted, or baser components
~~~
tells me that in this definition the element winnowed away is undesirable,
while Joyce's "vigour" is definitely desirable.
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
It could be replaced with "bleached."
q***@yahoo.com
2017-04-18 21:42:06 UTC
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On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 16:58:28 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[Lenehan throws in short comments on Corley's stories about women]
When he was quite sure that the narrative had ended he laughed
'Well!... That takes the biscuit!'
His voice seemed winnowed of vigour; and to enforce his words he added
'That takes the solitary, unique, and, if I may so call it, recherche
biscuit!'
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants)
~~~
"winnowed of vigour"
The meaning I've found for "winnowed"
~~~
winnowed
free of useless, unwanted, or baser components
~~~
tells me that in this definition the element winnowed away is undesirable,
while Joyce's "vigour" is definitely desirable.
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
Maybe that his voice wasn't vigorous enough was why he 'enforced' his
words.
--
John
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-04-18 22:18:31 UTC
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On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 16:58:28 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[Lenehan throws in short comments on Corley's stories about women]
When he was quite sure that the narrative had ended he laughed
'Well!... That takes the biscuit!'
His voice seemed winnowed of vigour; and to enforce his words he added
'That takes the solitary, unique, and, if I may so call it, recherche
biscuit!'
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants)
~~~
"winnowed of vigour"
The meaning I've found for "winnowed"
~~~
winnowed
free of useless, unwanted, or baser components
~~~
tells me that in this definition the element winnowed away is undesirable,
while Joyce's "vigour" is definitely desirable.
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
Yes. The original meaning of "winnow" is:

1.
a. trans. To expose (grain or other substances) to the wind or to a
current of air so that the lighter particles (as chaff or other
refuse matter) are separated or blown away; to clear of refuse
material by this method.

That has been extended to mean:

To separate (the valuable part from the worthless); (now esp. with
out) to extract, select, or obtain (something desirable) by such
separation.

However, Joyce seems to have used it to mean that a desirable feature,
vigour, has been removed from his voice.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
CDB
2017-04-19 11:29:57 UTC
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~~~ [Lenehan throws in short comments on Corley's stories about
women]
When he was quite sure that the narrative had ended he laughed
'Well!... That takes the biscuit!'
His voice seemed winnowed of vigour; and to enforce his words he
'That takes the solitary, unique, and, if I may so call it,
recherche biscuit!'
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants) ~~~
Re: "winnowed of vigour"
The meaning I've found for "winnowed" ~~~ winnowed free of
useless, unwanted, or baser components ~~~ tells me that in this
definition the element winnowed away is undesirable, while Joyce's
"vigour" is definitely desirable.
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
1. a. trans. To expose (grain or other substances) to the wind or to
a current of air so that the lighter particles (as chaff or other
refuse matter) are separated or blown away; to clear of refuse
material by this method.
To separate (the valuable part from the worthless); (now esp. with
out) to extract, select, or obtain (something desirable) by such
separation.
However, Joyce seems to have used it to mean that a desirable
feature, vigour, has been removed from his voice.
Carried away on the breath of his noiseless laughter, maybe.
Marius Hancu
2017-04-19 11:51:50 UTC
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Post by CDB
~~~ [Lenehan throws in short comments on Corley's stories about
women]
When he was quite sure that the narrative had ended he laughed
'Well!... That takes the biscuit!'
His voice seemed winnowed of vigour; and to enforce his words he
'That takes the solitary, unique, and, if I may so call it,
recherche biscuit!'
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants) ~~~
Re: "winnowed of vigour"
The meaning I've found for "winnowed" ~~~ winnowed free of
useless, unwanted, or baser components ~~~ tells me that in this
definition the element winnowed away is undesirable, while Joyce's
"vigour" is definitely desirable.
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
1. a. trans. To expose (grain or other substances) to the wind or to
a current of air so that the lighter particles (as chaff or other
refuse matter) are separated or blown away; to clear of refuse
material by this method.
To separate (the valuable part from the worthless); (now esp. with
out) to extract, select, or obtain (something desirable) by such
separation.
However, Joyce seems to have used it to mean that a desirable
feature, vigour, has been removed from his voice.
Carried away on the breath of his noiseless laughter, maybe.
Ha, perhaps.

Thanks, everyone.
--
Marius Hancu
Harrison Hill
2017-04-18 22:25:29 UTC
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Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[Lenehan throws in short comments on Corley's stories about women]
When he was quite sure that the narrative had ended he laughed
'Well!... That takes the biscuit!'
His voice seemed winnowed of vigour; and to enforce his words he added
'That takes the solitary, unique, and, if I may so call it, recherche
biscuit!'
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants)
~~~
"winnowed of vigour"
The meaning I've found for "winnowed"
~~~
winnowed
free of useless, unwanted, or baser components
~~~
tells me that in this definition the element winnowed away is undesirable,
while Joyce's "vigour" is definitely desirable.
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
"Winnowed of vigour" means "with the chaff taken
out". Better, purer, more vigorous.
Janet
2017-04-18 22:49:17 UTC
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Subject: Re: Joyce: winnowed of vigour
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[Lenehan throws in short comments on Corley's stories about women]
When he was quite sure that the narrative had ended he laughed
'Well!... That takes the biscuit!'
His voice seemed winnowed of vigour; and to enforce his words he added
'That takes the solitary, unique, and, if I may so call it, recherche
biscuit!'
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants)
~~~
"winnowed of vigour"
The meaning I've found for "winnowed"
~~~
winnowed
free of useless, unwanted, or baser components
~~~
tells me that in this definition the element winnowed away is undesirable,
while Joyce's "vigour" is definitely desirable.
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
"Winnowed of vigour" means "with the chaff taken
out". Better, purer, more vigorous.
You have it back to front. It's the vigour that has been taken from
his voice.

This is confirmed in the following sentence , which says

He became serious and silent when he had said this. His tongue was tired
for he had been talking all the afternoon in a public-house in Dorset
Street."

Janet.
Harrison Hill
2017-04-19 20:42:53 UTC
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Post by Janet
Subject: Re: Joyce: winnowed of vigour
Newsgroups: alt.usage.english
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[Lenehan throws in short comments on Corley's stories about women]
When he was quite sure that the narrative had ended he laughed
'Well!... That takes the biscuit!'
His voice seemed winnowed of vigour; and to enforce his words he added
'That takes the solitary, unique, and, if I may so call it, recherche
biscuit!'
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants)
~~~
"winnowed of vigour"
The meaning I've found for "winnowed"
~~~
winnowed
free of useless, unwanted, or baser components
~~~
tells me that in this definition the element winnowed away is undesirable,
while Joyce's "vigour" is definitely desirable.
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
"Winnowed of vigour" means "with the chaff taken
out". Better, purer, more vigorous.
You have it back to front. It's the vigour that has been taken from
his voice.
This is confirmed in the following sentence , which says
He became serious and silent when he had said this. His tongue was tired
for he had been talking all the afternoon in a public-house in Dorset
Street."
Yup.

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