Discussion:
Porter: come down
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Marius Hancu
2017-10-10 01:31:06 UTC
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Hello, everyone,

~~~
[Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in a
grocery's.]

“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and Adna
can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on our feet
again, and the children will feel they've got a place to come to.” All
at once she saw it full summer ...

Katherine Anne Porter, He
~~~

"can get down for Sundays":
Is this
can come home for Sundays?
or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?

Thank you.
--
Marius Hancu
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-10 01:58:56 UTC
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On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~
[Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in a
grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and Adna
can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on our feet
again, and the children will feel they've got a place to come to.” All
at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He
~~~
Is this
can come home for Sundays?
or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel "down
south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is always
"UP". South is always "DOWN". Or it might mean that she is coming
from a higher elevation.

If Adna "can get down" for Sundays, she might be coming from the north
or she might live up a mountain.
GordonD
2017-10-10 08:47:44 UTC
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Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
Peter T. Daniels
2017-10-10 11:48:54 UTC
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Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
What does that have to do with "If you live in the northern U.S."?
RH Draney
2017-10-10 12:40:15 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
What does that have to do with "If you live in the northern U.S."?
Lots of places put a direction other than north at the top of a
map...Egypt (where the Nile flows "down" from the African interior),
China (where the highest mountains are in Tibet, to the south), and even
in parts of the US (people in Tucson speak of going "down" to Phoenix,
which is to the north; Phoenicians do not observe the same convention)....

Then there were the old maps with Jerusalem (to the east) at the top,
and Maine and the Canadian Maritime Provinces which refer to "down
east"....r
Peter T. Daniels
2017-10-10 13:12:47 UTC
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Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
What does that have to do with "If you live in the northern U.S."?
Lots of places put a direction other than north at the top of a
map...Egypt (where the Nile flows "down" from the African interior),
I've never seen a map of the Nile with the Mediterranean at the bottom. "Upper
Egypt" is to the south, "Lower Egypt" to the north. "Low German" is toward the
north of the country, "High German" toward the south.
Post by RH Draney
China (where the highest mountains are in Tibet, to the south), and even
in parts of the US (people in Tucson speak of going "down" to Phoenix,
which is to the north; Phoenicians do not observe the same convention)....
Then there were the old maps with Jerusalem (to the east) at the top,
and Maine and the Canadian Maritime Provinces which refer to "down
east"....r
"Down East," Down Here, refers to Maine, as far up as you can get in the Lower 48.
Tony Cooper
2017-10-10 13:21:18 UTC
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Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
There are often references in the Chicago media to "downstate voters".
While Chicago is north of most of where the downstate voters live,
Rockford, Illinois (where my wife is from) is north of Chicago.

My wife's family never accepted that they were in the "downstate"
group.

A sample of the usage:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-bruce-rauner-trust-act-met-20170819-story.html

The headline of the Chicago Tribune is "Rauner facing pressure from
Downstate Republicans to veto 'very reasonable' immigration bill"
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Jerry Friedman
2017-10-10 13:54:05 UTC
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Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or can
come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S.,  you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions.  North is
always "UP".  South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
So Adna's mother probably didn't mean that she lived closer to London
than Adna did?
--
Jerry Friedman
Horace LaBadie
2017-10-10 16:09:30 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or can
come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S.,  you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions.  North is
always "UP".  South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
So Adna's mother probably didn't mean that she lived closer to London
than Adna did?
Also, probably not a contestant on The Price is Right. "Adna, come on
down!"
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-10 15:18:09 UTC
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Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".

It is most always "back east" and "out west", too.
Tony Cooper
2017-10-10 16:10:47 UTC
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".

In Indiana, where I grew up, there was no concept of the "downstate"
voters. The capital and major city, Indianapolis, is in roughly the
center of the state. Indianapolis doesn't dominate the state in
population or political influence the way Chicago dominates Illinois,
though.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-10 16:34:32 UTC
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 12:10:47 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
In Indiana, where I grew up, there was no concept of the "downstate"
voters. The capital and major city, Indianapolis, is in roughly the
center of the state. Indianapolis doesn't dominate the state in
population or political influence the way Chicago dominates Illinois,
though.
Certainly, but that is local usage, too. But people in the USA will
never say, "up south", "down north", "back west" or "out east" - and
the proper idioms are more than local usage, at least in the USA. They
are matters of "convention", and "out west" or "back east" have a
historical origin, too.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-10-10 21:02:22 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois -- is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago). It's more than 300 miles to Carbondale, in eclipse country at the
southern tip of Illinois. (The great liberal Senator Paul Simon was from down
there, though.)
Post by Tony Cooper
In Indiana, where I grew up, there was no concept of the "downstate"
voters. The capital and major city, Indianapolis, is in roughly the
center of the state. Indianapolis doesn't dominate the state in
population or political influence the way Chicago dominates Illinois,
though.
Nor does Indiana have a noticeable Democratic or liberal component. The Bayhs
were very precarious hangers-on.
Katy Jennison
2017-10-10 23:33:35 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois -- is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago). It's more than 300 miles to Carbondale, in eclipse country at the
southern tip of Illinois. (The great liberal Senator Paul Simon was from down
there, though.)
For values of "more than 300" which mean "getting on for 400". 379 or
thereabouts. Thirty miles less (or fewer) than London to Edinburgh.

(I only point this out because I know all these places, and the roads in
between.)
--
Katy Jennison
Peter T. Daniels
2017-10-11 03:20:52 UTC
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Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois -- is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago). It's more than 300 miles to Carbondale, in eclipse country at the
southern tip of Illinois. (The great liberal Senator Paul Simon was from down
there, though.)
For values of "more than 300" which mean "getting on for 400". 379 or
thereabouts. Thirty miles less (or fewer) than London to Edinburgh.
You know what would have happened if I'd said "nearly 400."
Post by Katy Jennison
(I only point this out because I know all these places, and the roads in
between.)
I-65, innit?
Katy Jennison
2017-10-11 20:08:09 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois -- is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago). It's more than 300 miles to Carbondale, in eclipse country at the
southern tip of Illinois. (The great liberal Senator Paul Simon was from down
there, though.)
For values of "more than 300" which mean "getting on for 400". 379 or
thereabouts. Thirty miles less (or fewer) than London to Edinburgh.
You know what would have happened if I'd said "nearly 400."
Much like what happened when you said "more than 300", but probably less
so. Note that, to me, "getting on for 400" (my suggestions) equates to
rather less than "nearly 400" (what you didn't say).
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Katy Jennison
(I only point this out because I know all these places, and the roads in
between.)
I-65, innit?
No, that goes through Indiana. It's likely to be I-39 and I-57, but it
depends on how long you're happy to spend batting down the interstate,
against how much you enjoy moseying through the small-town mid-West.
--
Katy Jennison
Tony Cooper
2017-10-11 00:56:49 UTC
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2017-10-11 03:23:37 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.

I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
Tony Cooper
2017-10-11 03:51:35 UTC
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.

Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2017-10-11 12:09:03 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Milwaukee is 90 miles. I had to drive it weekly the semester I taught a course there.
Post by Tony Cooper
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
I don't know what the latter is and have no interest in the former.
CDB
2017-10-11 15:04:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[Americans have geography]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36
miles. The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the
driver has some miles to go before finding a place to stop for
cheese curds or chicken booyah.
I don't know what the latter is and have no interest in the former.
So never mention them again.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-10-11 16:15:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
[Americans have geography]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36
miles. The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the
driver has some miles to go before finding a place to stop for
cheese curds or chicken booyah.
I don't know what the latter is and have no interest in the former.
So never mention them again.
I've never mentioned either and would have no reason ever to do so.
Katy Jennison
2017-10-11 19:55:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
--
Katy Jennison
Tony Cooper
2017-10-11 21:05:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.

In a time long ago, I dated a girl I met in Chicago who moved to
Kenosha, Wisconsin. On trips to Kenosha I don't think I ever ordered
anything except beer brats. I've had excellent brats in Chicago at
the Men's Bar at Berghoff's, but there's something about a brat in
Wisconsin that just a skosh better.

For an interesting story about "chicken booyah", see
http://whoonew.com/2013/10/the-real-reason-we-call-it-chicken-booyah-in-wisconsin/
If you read it, you'll find that it's just chicken soup and the name
comes from a mangling of the spelling of the word "bouillion".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Ross
2017-10-11 21:52:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
In a time long ago, I dated a girl I met in Chicago who moved to
Kenosha, Wisconsin. On trips to Kenosha I don't think I ever ordered
anything except beer brats. I've had excellent brats in Chicago at
the Men's Bar at Berghoff's, but there's something about a brat in
Wisconsin that just a skosh better.
For an interesting story about "chicken booyah", see
http://whoonew.com/2013/10/the-real-reason-we-call-it-chicken-booyah-in-wisconsin/
If you read it, you'll find that it's just chicken soup and the name
comes from a mangling of the spelling of the word "bouillion".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
I'd rather say an adjustment of the spelling to fit local pronunciation.
After all, it's just "booyong" in French. But "ong" is one of those
garlicky French vowels, so the Wisconsinites have replaced it with a
simple, tasteful -ah, and spelled it accordingly.
LFS
2017-10-12 11:24:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
They were on every menu I saw in Wisconsin and eventually I had to try
them. They are yummy. My travelling companions refused to touch them,
though.
Post by Tony Cooper
In a time long ago, I dated a girl I met in Chicago who moved to
Kenosha, Wisconsin. On trips to Kenosha I don't think I ever ordered
anything except beer brats. I've had excellent brats in Chicago at
the Men's Bar at Berghoff's, but there's something about a brat in
Wisconsin that just a skosh better.
For an interesting story about "chicken booyah", see
http://whoonew.com/2013/10/the-real-reason-we-call-it-chicken-booyah-in-wisconsin/
If you read it, you'll find that it's just chicken soup and the name
comes from a mangling of the spelling of the word "bouillion".
See also bully beef.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Tony Cooper
2017-10-12 16:01:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
They were on every menu I saw in Wisconsin and eventually I had to try
them. They are yummy. My travelling companions refused to touch them,
though.
It doesn't seem possible that cheese curds are a recent culinary
discovery, but I don't remember any mention of them in the years I
lived in Chicago. Chicago is close enough to Wisconsin that Wisconsin
interests are shared by many in the Chicago area.

It's only been in the last decade that "cheese curds" became a known
thing to me.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-12 16:05:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 12:01:13 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
They were on every menu I saw in Wisconsin and eventually I had to try
them. They are yummy. My travelling companions refused to touch them,
though.
It doesn't seem possible that cheese curds are a recent culinary
discovery, but I don't remember any mention of them in the years I
lived in Chicago. Chicago is close enough to Wisconsin that Wisconsin
interests are shared by many in the Chicago area.
It's only been in the last decade that "cheese curds" became a known
thing to me.
Whey to go.
Cheryl
2017-10-12 16:11:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
They were on every menu I saw in Wisconsin and eventually I had to try
them. They are yummy. My travelling companions refused to touch them,
though.
It doesn't seem possible that cheese curds are a recent culinary
discovery, but I don't remember any mention of them in the years I
lived in Chicago. Chicago is close enough to Wisconsin that Wisconsin
interests are shared by many in the Chicago area.
It's only been in the last decade that "cheese curds" became a known
thing to me.
I knew of curds and whey, but only from the nursery rhyme. I had no idea
what curds were like until poutine became popular.

I still haven't seen or tried to eat (drink??) whey.
--
Cheryl
Peter T. Daniels
2017-10-12 20:24:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cheryl
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
They were on every menu I saw in Wisconsin and eventually I had to try
them. They are yummy. My travelling companions refused to touch them,
though.
It doesn't seem possible that cheese curds are a recent culinary
discovery, but I don't remember any mention of them in the years I
lived in Chicago. Chicago is close enough to Wisconsin that Wisconsin
interests are shared by many in the Chicago area.
It's only been in the last decade that "cheese curds" became a known
thing to me.
I knew of curds and whey, but only from the nursery rhyme. I had no idea
what curds were like until poutine became popular.
I still haven't seen or tried to eat (drink??) whey.
In a crossword puzzle I did last night, "whey" was the clue for SERUM.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-10-12 20:22:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
They were on every menu I saw in Wisconsin and eventually I had to try
them. They are yummy. My travelling companions refused to touch them,
though.
It doesn't seem possible that cheese curds are a recent culinary
discovery, but I don't remember any mention of them in the years I
lived in Chicago. Chicago is close enough to Wisconsin that Wisconsin
interests are shared by many in the Chicago area.
It's only been in the last decade that "cheese curds" became a known
thing to me.
They were well known in the Chicago of my day (whenever that was?) as something
they had in Wisconsin.
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-12 16:19:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
They were on every menu I saw in Wisconsin and eventually I had to try
them. They are yummy. My travelling companions refused to touch them,
though.
Cheese curds are a main ingredient in "poutine", a dish consisting of
french fries topped with fresh cheese curds, covered with brown gravy
and sometimes additional ingredients. The dish originated in rural
Quebec, Canada, in the late 1950s. Several Québécois
communities[which?] claim to be the birthplace of poutine.
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
In a time long ago, I dated a girl I met in Chicago who moved to
Kenosha, Wisconsin. On trips to Kenosha I don't think I ever ordered
anything except beer brats. I've had excellent brats in Chicago at
the Men's Bar at Berghoff's, but there's something about a brat in
Wisconsin that just a skosh better.
For an interesting story about "chicken booyah", see
http://whoonew.com/2013/10/the-real-reason-we-call-it-chicken-booyah-in-wisconsin/
If you read it, you'll find that it's just chicken soup and the name
comes from a mangling of the spelling of the word "bouillion".
See also bully beef.
Bully beef is corned beef. The "bully" is from the French "bouilli"
meaning "boiled".
LFS
2017-10-13 06:08:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
They were on every menu I saw in Wisconsin and eventually I had to try
them. They are yummy. My travelling companions refused to touch them,
though.
Cheese curds are a main ingredient in "poutine", a dish consisting of
french fries topped with fresh cheese curds, covered with brown gravy
and sometimes additional ingredients. The dish originated in rural
Quebec, Canada, in the late 1950s. Several Québécois
communities[which?] claim to be the birthplace of poutine.
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
In a time long ago, I dated a girl I met in Chicago who moved to
Kenosha, Wisconsin. On trips to Kenosha I don't think I ever ordered
anything except beer brats. I've had excellent brats in Chicago at
the Men's Bar at Berghoff's, but there's something about a brat in
Wisconsin that just a skosh better.
For an interesting story about "chicken booyah", see
http://whoonew.com/2013/10/the-real-reason-we-call-it-chicken-booyah-in-wisconsin/
If you read it, you'll find that it's just chicken soup and the name
comes from a mangling of the spelling of the word "bouillion".
See also bully beef.
Bully beef is corned beef. The "bully" is from the French "bouilli"
meaning "boiled".
Not quite, it was something to do with the way the meat was processed in
the cans, which actually involved bouillon. I read this very recently in
an excellent book called The Hungry Empire by Lizzie Collingham which,
in a very engaging and readable way, describes how food was central to
the building of the British Empire. But I had to return the book to the
library so I can't give a precise reference.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-13 17:03:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by LFS
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
They were on every menu I saw in Wisconsin and eventually I had to try
them. They are yummy. My travelling companions refused to touch them,
though.
Cheese curds are a main ingredient in "poutine", a dish consisting of
french fries topped with fresh cheese curds, covered with brown gravy
and sometimes additional ingredients. The dish originated in rural
Quebec, Canada, in the late 1950s. Several Québécois
communities[which?] claim to be the birthplace of poutine.
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
In a time long ago, I dated a girl I met in Chicago who moved to
Kenosha, Wisconsin. On trips to Kenosha I don't think I ever ordered
anything except beer brats. I've had excellent brats in Chicago at
the Men's Bar at Berghoff's, but there's something about a brat in
Wisconsin that just a skosh better.
For an interesting story about "chicken booyah", see
http://whoonew.com/2013/10/the-real-reason-we-call-it-chicken-booyah-in-wisconsin/
If you read it, you'll find that it's just chicken soup and the name
comes from a mangling of the spelling of the word "bouillion".
See also bully beef.
Bully beef is corned beef. The "bully" is from the French "bouilli"
meaning "boiled".
Not quite, it was something to do with the way the meat was processed in
the cans, which actually involved bouillon. I read this very recently in
an excellent book called The Hungry Empire by Lizzie Collingham which,
in a very engaging and readable way, describes how food was central to
the building of the British Empire. But I had to return the book to the
library so I can't give a precise reference.
If she mentions "Brown Windsor Soup", don't believe a word of it.

Okay, "Bouillion" is French for "broth".

Bully beef:

According to Collinham, "This was the name sailors had given those
early cans produced by the pioneers of meat canning in imitation of
Nicolas Appert's beef Bouillion. But the bully beef the troops ate in
North Africa was, in fact, that compacted form of canned beef invented
by William Vestey in Chicago in the 1870s."

(Apparently, Appert was a pioneer in "canning")

http://tinyurl.com/ybz89lzq


This from Collins:

Word origin of 'bully beef'
C19 bully, anglicized version of French bouilli, from boeuf bouilli
boiled beef.

OED: (says BULL) or corruption of "bouilli de boeuf". Pickled or
tinned beef.

First Known Use: 1753.

(Where did the French come into it?)

Also:

"Bully beef is a type of corned beef. Basically, it is a brisket cut
of beef that is cured or pickled, finely minced, and packaged with
gelatin in a can. The name is an anglicized version of the French
boeuf bouilli, which means boiled beef. It became a staple of the
British army during the first half of the 20th century, and is
sometimes served in slices on bread as a sandwich, or combined with
potatoes to form a hash."

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-bully-beef.htm


(Canned beef was labeled "boiled beef")

Loading Image...
Quinn C
2017-10-13 17:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mack A. Damia
According to Collinham, "This was the name sailors had given those
early cans produced by the pioneers of meat canning in imitation of
Nicolas Appert's beef Bouillion. But the bully beef the troops ate in
North Africa was, in fact, that compacted form of canned beef invented
by William Vestey in Chicago in the 1870s."
(Apparently, Appert was a pioneer in "canning")
Therefore, when serving canned food, we say "bon appertit!"
--
If Helen Keller is alone in the forest and falls down, does she
make a sound?
b***@aol.com
2017-10-13 17:54:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by LFS
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
They were on every menu I saw in Wisconsin and eventually I had to try
them. They are yummy. My travelling companions refused to touch them,
though.
Cheese curds are a main ingredient in "poutine", a dish consisting of
french fries topped with fresh cheese curds, covered with brown gravy
and sometimes additional ingredients. The dish originated in rural
Quebec, Canada, in the late 1950s. Several Québécois
communities[which?] claim to be the birthplace of poutine.
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
In a time long ago, I dated a girl I met in Chicago who moved to
Kenosha, Wisconsin. On trips to Kenosha I don't think I ever ordered
anything except beer brats. I've had excellent brats in Chicago at
the Men's Bar at Berghoff's, but there's something about a brat in
Wisconsin that just a skosh better.
For an interesting story about "chicken booyah", see
http://whoonew.com/2013/10/the-real-reason-we-call-it-chicken-booyah-in-wisconsin/
If you read it, you'll find that it's just chicken soup and the name
comes from a mangling of the spelling of the word "bouillion".
See also bully beef.
Bully beef is corned beef. The "bully" is from the French "bouilli"
meaning "boiled".
Not quite, it was something to do with the way the meat was processed in
the cans, which actually involved bouillon. I read this very recently in
an excellent book called The Hungry Empire by Lizzie Collingham which,
in a very engaging and readable way, describes how food was central to
the building of the British Empire. But I had to return the book to the
library so I can't give a precise reference.
If she mentions "Brown Windsor Soup", don't believe a word of it.
Okay, "Bouillion" is French for "broth".
The spelling is "bouillon" in French. (I understand "bouillion"
is also possible in English.)
Post by Mack A. Damia
According to Collinham, "This was the name sailors had given those
early cans produced by the pioneers of meat canning in imitation of
Nicolas Appert's beef Bouillion. But the bully beef the troops ate in
North Africa was, in fact, that compacted form of canned beef invented
by William Vestey in Chicago in the 1870s."
(Apparently, Appert was a pioneer in "canning")
http://tinyurl.com/ybz89lzq
Word origin of 'bully beef'
C19 bully, anglicized version of French bouilli, from boeuf bouilli
boiled beef.
OED: (says BULL) or corruption of "bouilli de boeuf". Pickled or
tinned beef.
First Known Use: 1753.
(Where did the French come into it?)
"Bully beef is a type of corned beef. Basically, it is a brisket cut
of beef that is cured or pickled, finely minced, and packaged with
gelatin in a can. The name is an anglicized version of the French
boeuf bouilli, which means boiled beef. It became a staple of the
British army during the first half of the 20th century, and is
sometimes served in slices on bread as a sandwich, or combined with
potatoes to form a hash."
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-bully-beef.htm
(Canned beef was labeled "boiled beef")
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/94/f6/ce/94f6ce51aac04d23233d05891e74dc4d--food-rations-beef.jpg
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-13 18:08:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by LFS
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
They were on every menu I saw in Wisconsin and eventually I had to try
them. They are yummy. My travelling companions refused to touch them,
though.
Cheese curds are a main ingredient in "poutine", a dish consisting of
french fries topped with fresh cheese curds, covered with brown gravy
and sometimes additional ingredients. The dish originated in rural
Quebec, Canada, in the late 1950s. Several Québécois
communities[which?] claim to be the birthplace of poutine.
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
In a time long ago, I dated a girl I met in Chicago who moved to
Kenosha, Wisconsin. On trips to Kenosha I don't think I ever ordered
anything except beer brats. I've had excellent brats in Chicago at
the Men's Bar at Berghoff's, but there's something about a brat in
Wisconsin that just a skosh better.
For an interesting story about "chicken booyah", see
http://whoonew.com/2013/10/the-real-reason-we-call-it-chicken-booyah-in-wisconsin/
If you read it, you'll find that it's just chicken soup and the name
comes from a mangling of the spelling of the word "bouillion".
See also bully beef.
Bully beef is corned beef. The "bully" is from the French "bouilli"
meaning "boiled".
Not quite, it was something to do with the way the meat was processed in
the cans, which actually involved bouillon. I read this very recently in
an excellent book called The Hungry Empire by Lizzie Collingham which,
in a very engaging and readable way, describes how food was central to
the building of the British Empire. But I had to return the book to the
library so I can't give a precise reference.
If she mentions "Brown Windsor Soup", don't believe a word of it.
Okay, "Bouillion" is French for "broth".
The spelling is "bouillon" in French. (I understand "bouillion"
is also possible in English.)
"The Gluten-Free Guide to France":

http://tinyurl.com/y7llthzu
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Mack A. Damia
According to Collinham, "This was the name sailors had given those
early cans produced by the pioneers of meat canning in imitation of
Nicolas Appert's beef Bouillion. But the bully beef the troops ate in
North Africa was, in fact, that compacted form of canned beef invented
by William Vestey in Chicago in the 1870s."
(Apparently, Appert was a pioneer in "canning")
http://tinyurl.com/ybz89lzq
Word origin of 'bully beef'
C19 bully, anglicized version of French bouilli, from boeuf bouilli
boiled beef.
OED: (says BULL) or corruption of "bouilli de boeuf". Pickled or
tinned beef.
First Known Use: 1753.
(Where did the French come into it?)
"Bully beef is a type of corned beef. Basically, it is a brisket cut
of beef that is cured or pickled, finely minced, and packaged with
gelatin in a can. The name is an anglicized version of the French
boeuf bouilli, which means boiled beef. It became a staple of the
British army during the first half of the 20th century, and is
sometimes served in slices on bread as a sandwich, or combined with
potatoes to form a hash."
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-bully-beef.htm
(Canned beef was labeled "boiled beef")
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/94/f6/ce/94f6ce51aac04d23233d05891e74dc4d--food-rations-beef.jpg
b***@aol.com
2017-10-13 18:46:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by LFS
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
They were on every menu I saw in Wisconsin and eventually I had to try
them. They are yummy. My travelling companions refused to touch them,
though.
Cheese curds are a main ingredient in "poutine", a dish consisting of
french fries topped with fresh cheese curds, covered with brown gravy
and sometimes additional ingredients. The dish originated in rural
Quebec, Canada, in the late 1950s. Several Québécois
communities[which?] claim to be the birthplace of poutine.
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
In a time long ago, I dated a girl I met in Chicago who moved to
Kenosha, Wisconsin. On trips to Kenosha I don't think I ever ordered
anything except beer brats. I've had excellent brats in Chicago at
the Men's Bar at Berghoff's, but there's something about a brat in
Wisconsin that just a skosh better.
For an interesting story about "chicken booyah", see
http://whoonew.com/2013/10/the-real-reason-we-call-it-chicken-booyah-in-wisconsin/
If you read it, you'll find that it's just chicken soup and the name
comes from a mangling of the spelling of the word "bouillion".
See also bully beef.
Bully beef is corned beef. The "bully" is from the French "bouilli"
meaning "boiled".
Not quite, it was something to do with the way the meat was processed in
the cans, which actually involved bouillon. I read this very recently in
an excellent book called The Hungry Empire by Lizzie Collingham which,
in a very engaging and readable way, describes how food was central to
the building of the British Empire. But I had to return the book to the
library so I can't give a precise reference.
If she mentions "Brown Windsor Soup", don't believe a word of it.
Okay, "Bouillion" is French for "broth".
The spelling is "bouillon" in French. (I understand "bouillion"
is also possible in English.)
http://tinyurl.com/y7llthzu
The word is apparently mentioned as "bouillion" in Italian and German,
and as "bouillon" in French. (There's also in instance of "boullion"
in English, but that must be a typo.)
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Mack A. Damia
According to Collinham, "This was the name sailors had given those
early cans produced by the pioneers of meat canning in imitation of
Nicolas Appert's beef Bouillion. But the bully beef the troops ate in
North Africa was, in fact, that compacted form of canned beef invented
by William Vestey in Chicago in the 1870s."
(Apparently, Appert was a pioneer in "canning")
http://tinyurl.com/ybz89lzq
Word origin of 'bully beef'
C19 bully, anglicized version of French bouilli, from boeuf bouilli
boiled beef.
OED: (says BULL) or corruption of "bouilli de boeuf". Pickled or
tinned beef.
First Known Use: 1753.
(Where did the French come into it?)
"Bully beef is a type of corned beef. Basically, it is a brisket cut
of beef that is cured or pickled, finely minced, and packaged with
gelatin in a can. The name is an anglicized version of the French
boeuf bouilli, which means boiled beef. It became a staple of the
British army during the first half of the 20th century, and is
sometimes served in slices on bread as a sandwich, or combined with
potatoes to form a hash."
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-bully-beef.htm
(Canned beef was labeled "boiled beef")
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/94/f6/ce/94f6ce51aac04d23233d05891e74dc4d--food-rations-beef.jpg
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-13 19:51:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by LFS
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 20:55:36 +0100, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage. An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't. Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census). When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2. Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago. Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds! Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I have never tried cheese curds. I've never seen them on a menu, for
that matter. They don't *sound* good, but they are popular enough
that they could be good.
They were on every menu I saw in Wisconsin and eventually I had to try
them. They are yummy. My travelling companions refused to touch them,
though.
Cheese curds are a main ingredient in "poutine", a dish consisting of
french fries topped with fresh cheese curds, covered with brown gravy
and sometimes additional ingredients. The dish originated in rural
Quebec, Canada, in the late 1950s. Several Québécois
communities[which?] claim to be the birthplace of poutine.
Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
In a time long ago, I dated a girl I met in Chicago who moved to
Kenosha, Wisconsin. On trips to Kenosha I don't think I ever ordered
anything except beer brats. I've had excellent brats in Chicago at
the Men's Bar at Berghoff's, but there's something about a brat in
Wisconsin that just a skosh better.
For an interesting story about "chicken booyah", see
http://whoonew.com/2013/10/the-real-reason-we-call-it-chicken-booyah-in-wisconsin/
If you read it, you'll find that it's just chicken soup and the name
comes from a mangling of the spelling of the word "bouillion".
See also bully beef.
Bully beef is corned beef. The "bully" is from the French "bouilli"
meaning "boiled".
Not quite, it was something to do with the way the meat was processed in
the cans, which actually involved bouillon. I read this very recently in
an excellent book called The Hungry Empire by Lizzie Collingham which,
in a very engaging and readable way, describes how food was central to
the building of the British Empire. But I had to return the book to the
library so I can't give a precise reference.
If she mentions "Brown Windsor Soup", don't believe a word of it.
Okay, "Bouillion" is French for "broth".
The spelling is "bouillon" in French. (I understand "bouillion"
is also possible in English.)
http://tinyurl.com/y7llthzu
The word is apparently mentioned as "bouillion" in Italian and German,
and as "bouillon" in French. (There's also in instance of "boullion"
in English, but that must be a typo.)
Okay, aside from that, Cunard served bouillion and biscuits on deck in
the mornings on transatlantic voyages when I crossed several times in
the 1950s. Cunard was sold to Carnival Lines, I think, and I believe
they still do serve it, but it may not be the same.

I think the original was Cunard's "beef tea", but it is one of those
flavors I remember but cannot find. It certainly wasn't Bovril or
canned bouillion. Yummy stuff and a good bracer for the North
Atlantic.
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Mack A. Damia
According to Collinham, "This was the name sailors had given those
early cans produced by the pioneers of meat canning in imitation of
Nicolas Appert's beef Bouillion. But the bully beef the troops ate in
North Africa was, in fact, that compacted form of canned beef invented
by William Vestey in Chicago in the 1870s."
(Apparently, Appert was a pioneer in "canning")
http://tinyurl.com/ybz89lzq
Word origin of 'bully beef'
C19 bully, anglicized version of French bouilli, from boeuf bouilli
boiled beef.
OED: (says BULL) or corruption of "bouilli de boeuf". Pickled or
tinned beef.
First Known Use: 1753.
(Where did the French come into it?)
"Bully beef is a type of corned beef. Basically, it is a brisket cut
of beef that is cured or pickled, finely minced, and packaged with
gelatin in a can. The name is an anglicized version of the French
boeuf bouilli, which means boiled beef. It became a staple of the
British army during the first half of the 20th century, and is
sometimes served in slices on bread as a sandwich, or combined with
potatoes to form a hash."
http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-bully-beef.htm
(Canned beef was labeled "boiled beef")
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/94/f6/ce/94f6ce51aac04d23233d05891e74dc4d--food-rations-beef.jpg
LFS
2017-10-12 11:22:08 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 20:23:37 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 14:02:22 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 08:18:09 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
Tell me where they say, "We are going on vacation up south", or "My
relatives live down north".>>
I suggested such a usage.  An Illinois politician might say he's
"Going up to Rockford to campaign for downstate voters".
Because Rockford -- the second largest city in Illinois --
It was, but isn't.  Aurora is now the second-largest city in Illinois
That's truly disturbing.
Post by Tony Cooper
(2010 Census).  When my wife lived there, Rockford was #2 and Peoria
#3, but Peoria kept annexing and briefly became #2.  Now, Peoria has
dropped to 7th.
I managed never to visit Peoria.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
is slightly north
of Chicago (up against the Wisconsin border, which is 30-odd miles north of
Chicago).
Rockford is closer to 90 miles from Chicago because it's northwest of
Chicago.
It is, _ipso facto_, north of Chicago, which was the ONLY RELEVANT POINT in
explaining your assertion.
I'll try to remember never to express agreement with you again.
I was being kind in not disputing your statement about Wisconsin being
30 miles north of Chicago.  Double that figure to 60 miles and you'll
be in Antioch, Illinois and not yet in Wisconsin.
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds!  Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I'm quite glad that they aren't: on our trip around Wisconsin last year
I gained quite a few pounds because I found them irresistible.
Similarly, funnel cake.

But I have just discovered that Heavenly Desserts is about to open in
Headington which may stretch my willpower rather...
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Peter T. Daniels
2017-10-12 11:49:14 UTC
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Post by LFS
Post by Tony Cooper
Even Evanston (on the north border of Chicago) to Antioch is 36 miles.
The state line hasn't been crossed on that journey and the driver has
some miles to go before finding a place to stop for cheese curds or
chicken booyah.
Cheese curds!  Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I'm quite glad that they aren't: on our trip around Wisconsin last year
I gained quite a few pounds because I found them irresistible.
Similarly, funnel cake.
But I have just discovered that Heavenly Desserts is about to open in
Headington which may stretch my willpower rather...
Funnel cake, though, is widely available, e.g. at county fairs. Cheese curds haven't traveled
(not even as far as Chicago). (Maybe as far as Rockford.)
Katy Jennison
2017-10-12 16:13:09 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by LFS
Cheese curds!  Dammit, why aren't those available everywhere?
I'm quite glad that they aren't: on our trip around Wisconsin last year
I gained quite a few pounds because I found them irresistible.
Similarly, funnel cake.
But I have just discovered that Heavenly Desserts is about to open in
Headington which may stretch my willpower rather...
Funnel cake, though, is widely available, e.g. at county fairs. Cheese curds haven't traveled
(not even as far as Chicago). (Maybe as far as Rockford.)
Yes. See eg
http://www.agrilicious.org/local/cheese-curds/illinois/rockford/farms
--
Katy Jennison
Lewis
2017-10-10 16:37:14 UTC
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Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Elevation trumps direction. I might drive up to Estes Park (an elevation
gain of 4-500m). When I go downtown, that is 'down' even though it is
north of me.

Some places are up, some are down, and some are over.

"I'm going to go over to Costco."
--
'I don't like to ask them questions.' 'Why not?' 'They might give me
answers. And then what would I do?'
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-10 17:22:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 16:37:14 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Elevation trumps direction. I might drive up to Estes Park (an elevation
gain of 4-500m). When I go downtown, that is 'down' even though it is
north of me.
Some places are up, some are down, and some are over.
"I'm going to go over to Costco."
I don't know where this N-gram comes from except Google books. Can't
find a reference

http://tinyurl.com/ycak3k95
Ken Blake
2017-10-10 19:50:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 16:37:14 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Elevation trumps direction. I might drive up to Estes Park (an elevation
gain of 4-500m). When I go downtown, that is 'down' even though it is
north of me.
That reminds me of friends of mine who lived in NYC and years ago
bought a summer house in Putnam county. Whenever they went there, they
said they were going "upstate." Putnam county is of course in the
southernmost part of New York state. It's way south of the Downstate
Medical Center, which is in Albany.
Lewis
2017-10-10 20:13:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 16:37:14 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Elevation trumps direction. I might drive up to Estes Park (an elevation
gain of 4-500m). When I go downtown, that is 'down' even though it is
north of me.
That reminds me of friends of mine who lived in NYC and years ago
bought a summer house in Putnam county. Whenever they went there, they
said they were going "upstate." Putnam county is of course in the
southernmost part of New York state. It's way south of the Downstate
Medical Center, which is in Albany.
All of New York State is 'upstate'. This is true despite New York City
being *in* New York state because any true east-coaster considers New
York City a thing unto its own.
--
It was a fifty-four with a mashed up door and a cheesy little amp with a
sign on the front said "Fender Champ" and a second-hand guitar it was a
Stratocaster with a whammy bar
Peter T. Daniels
2017-10-10 21:08:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Tue, 10 Oct 2017 16:37:14 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Elevation trumps direction. I might drive up to Estes Park (an elevation
gain of 4-500m). When I go downtown, that is 'down' even though it is
north of me.
That reminds me of friends of mine who lived in NYC and years ago
bought a summer house in Putnam county. Whenever they went there, they
said they were going "upstate." Putnam county is of course in the
southernmost part of New York state. It's way south of the Downstate
Medical Center, which is in Albany.
Putnam County is two counties north of NYC. That's upstate.

I believe the Downstate Medical Center was in Brooklyn -- the only campus of
SUNY that was in the city, which was otherwise served by CUNY.

Nowadays the NYS College of Optometry is in Manhattan -- in the building on
42nd St., ironically, that used to house the Graduate Center of the City
University of New York. I believe FIT -- the Fashion Institute of Technology
-- is also a State school, but I don't know whether it's part of the SUNY system.
Mark Brader
2017-10-11 11:14:13 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Ken Blake
That reminds me of friends of mine who lived in NYC and years ago
bought a summer house in Putnam county. Whenever they went there, they
said they were going "upstate." Putnam county is of course in the
southernmost part of New York state.
"Upstate" is all of the state except New York City and Long Island,
isn't it?
Post by Ken Blake
It's way south of the Downstate Medical Center, which is in Albany.
You appear to be mistaken about that.
--
Mark Brader | "Are you finding it frustrating when everything works on minix?
***@vex.net | No more all-nighters to get a nifty program working?"
Toronto | -- Linus Torvalds announces Linux, 1991
Ken Blake
2017-10-11 17:24:39 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ken Blake
That reminds me of friends of mine who lived in NYC and years ago
bought a summer house in Putnam county. Whenever they went there, they
said they were going "upstate." Putnam county is of course in the
southernmost part of New York state.
"Upstate" is all of the state except New York City and Long Island,
isn't it?
No it's not, of course, but I'm aware that's a very common point of
view. But I would never call Putnam county "upstate." If you want to
talk about what direction to go to get there from NYC, yes, the
direction is North, or "upstate." But if you want to talk about its
location, no, it's not "upstate," despite what many New Yorkers say.
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ken Blake
It's way south of the Downstate Medical Center, which is in Albany.
You appear to be mistaken about that.
And you appear to be correct. It's in Brooklyn, as I just found out by
googling it. I wonder where I got the idea that it was in Albany.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-10-11 17:38:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ken Blake
That reminds me of friends of mine who lived in NYC and years ago
bought a summer house in Putnam county. Whenever they went there, they
said they were going "upstate." Putnam county is of course in the
"Upstate" is all of the state except New York City and Long Island,
isn't it?
No it's not, of course,
Yes, it is.
Post by Ken Blake
but I'm aware that's a very common point of
view.
Thus, it is.
Post by Ken Blake
But I would never call Putnam county "upstate."
Were you ever _really_ a New York (City)er?
Post by Ken Blake
If you want to
talk about what direction to go to get there from NYC, yes, the
direction is North, or "upstate." But if you want to talk about its
location, no, it's not "upstate," despite what many New Yorkers say.
What other gauge could there be, than what people actually say?
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ken Blake
It's way south of the Downstate Medical Center, which is in Albany.
You appear to be mistaken about that.
And you appear to be correct. It's in Brooklyn, as I just found out by
googling it. I wonder where I got the idea that it was in Albany.
The same place you got your odd notion of "upstate"?
Ken Blake
2017-10-11 18:38:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:38:50 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ken Blake
That reminds me of friends of mine who lived in NYC and years ago
bought a summer house in Putnam county. Whenever they went there, they
said they were going "upstate." Putnam county is of course in the
"Upstate" is all of the state except New York City and Long Island,
isn't it?
No it's not, of course,
Yes, it is.
Post by Ken Blake
but I'm aware that's a very common point of
view.
Thus, it is.
Post by Ken Blake
But I would never call Putnam county "upstate."
Were you ever _really_ a New York (City)er?
Post by Ken Blake
If you want to
talk about what direction to go to get there from NYC, yes, the
direction is North, or "upstate." But if you want to talk about its
location, no, it's not "upstate," despite what many New Yorkers say.
What other gauge could there be, than what people actually say?
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ken Blake
It's way south of the Downstate Medical Center, which is in Albany.
You appear to be mistaken about that.
And you appear to be correct. It's in Brooklyn, as I just found out by
googling it. I wonder where I got the idea that it was in Albany.
The same place you got your odd notion of "upstate"?
You apparently like to argue. But I don't. Goodbye.
musika
2017-10-11 18:55:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ken Blake
You apparently like to argue. But I don't. Goodbye.
You learn fast, Ken.
--
Ray
UK
Peter T. Daniels
2017-10-11 19:32:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ken Blake
On Wed, 11 Oct 2017 10:38:50 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ken Blake
That reminds me of friends of mine who lived in NYC and years ago
bought a summer house in Putnam county. Whenever they went there, they
said they were going "upstate." Putnam county is of course in the
"Upstate" is all of the state except New York City and Long Island,
isn't it?
No it's not, of course,
Yes, it is.
Post by Ken Blake
but I'm aware that's a very common point of
view.
Thus, it is.
Post by Ken Blake
But I would never call Putnam county "upstate."
Were you ever _really_ a New York (City)er?
Post by Ken Blake
If you want to
talk about what direction to go to get there from NYC, yes, the
direction is North, or "upstate." But if you want to talk about its
location, no, it's not "upstate," despite what many New Yorkers say.
What other gauge could there be, than what people actually say?
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ken Blake
It's way south of the Downstate Medical Center, which is in Albany.
You appear to be mistaken about that.
And you appear to be correct. It's in Brooklyn, as I just found out by
googling it. I wonder where I got the idea that it was in Albany.
The same place you got your odd notion of "upstate"?
You apparently like to argue. But I don't. Goodbye.
You like to be wrong?
Mark Brader
2017-10-11 20:34:59 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Mark Brader
"Upstate" is all of the state except New York City and Long Island,
isn't it?
No it's not, of course, but I'm aware that's a very common point of
view...
So what would you define it as "of course" meaning?
--
Mark Brader | It's practically impossible to keep two separate databases
Toronto | in step for any length of time. That's true even when one
***@vex.net | of the "databases" is reality itself. -- Andrew Koenig
Jerry Friedman
2017-10-11 01:13:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lewis
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~ [Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in
a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and
Adna can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on
our feet again, and the children will feel they've got a place to
come to.” All at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He ~~~
"can get down for Sundays": Is this can come home for Sundays? or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Elevation trumps direction. I might drive up to Estes Park (an elevation
gain of 4-500m).
In Espanola, New Mexico, where I live, people may say they're going
down to Santa Fe (south) or up to Santa Fe (in elevation). The southern
part of the state is always "down south", though.
Post by Lewis
When I go downtown, that is 'down' even though it is
north of me.
...

In Cleveland, downtown is north. Since it's on the lake it's down in
elevation.
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
2017-10-13 17:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Lewis
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Elevation trumps direction. I might drive up to Estes Park (an elevation
gain of 4-500m). When I go downtown, that is 'down' even though it is
north of me.
To my grandma, everywhere else was "down". Mentally, she lived on
top of a mountain.
--
Novels and romances ... when habitually indulged in, exert a
disastrous influence on the nervous system, sufficient to explain
that frequency of hysteria and nervous disease which we find
among the highest classes. -- E.J. Tilt
Cheryl
2017-10-13 19:04:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Quinn C
Post by Lewis
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Elevation trumps direction. I might drive up to Estes Park (an elevation
gain of 4-500m). When I go downtown, that is 'down' even though it is
north of me.
To my grandma, everywhere else was "down". Mentally, she lived on
top of a mountain.
What baffled me when I first moved to a small outport (fishing village)
was that everyone seemed to use "the other side" (of the harbour) when
giving directions, but there seemed to be no rhyme or reason to which
side this was. It certainly wasn't used only to refer to the side we
weren't on. I though it might have something to do with the side the
speaker lived on. I think by that time the local council had assigned
official names to all the streets, but in true local style the names
were never used - except, possibly, for Water Street. I swear every town
in the province has a Water Street. It's sort of assumed everyone knows
where everyone else lives, and directions tended to be along the lines
of "Well, you go along there to Joe's house, you know Joe, don't you?
Everyone knows Joe. And then you go along the lane until you get to Mary
Smith's house, that's Susan's mother, now, not the other Mary...."

No one worried much about up or down or east or west.
--
Cheryl

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Peter Moylan
2017-10-11 01:12:57 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by GordonD
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Unless you're a student who has been sent down, and have to go to London
by the town drain.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Quinn C
2017-10-13 17:43:33 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by GordonD
Post by Mack A. Damia
For instance, if you live in the northern U.S., you may travel
"down south"; it is a reference to maps and directions. North is
always "UP". South is always "DOWN".
Not *always* always. Apart from the maps and globes produced in
Australia and other places which depict the Southern Hemisphere on top,
in the UK tradition has it that trains always travel *up* to London, no
matter what direction they are heading. Of course only real train nuts
pay any attention to that.
Is that so?

Not in Japan, where the two directions of a train are quite often
distinguished by "up" and "down", both officially and by many of
the users.
--
Some things are taken away from you, some you leave behind-and
some you carry with you, world without end.
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.31
Horace LaBadie
2017-10-10 02:17:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~
[Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in a
grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and Adna
can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on our feet
again, and the children will feel they've got a place to come to.” All
at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He
~~~
Is this
can come home for Sundays?
Certainly.
Post by Marius Hancu
or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Thank you.
Lewis
2017-10-10 02:17:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~
[Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in a
grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and Adna
can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on our feet
again, and the children will feel they've got a place to come to.” All
at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He
~~~
Is this
can come home for Sundays?
Yes.
--
'Listen,' said Rincewind. 'It's all over, do you see? You can't put the
spells back in the book, you can't unsay what's been said, you can't-'
'You can try!' --The Light Fantastic
Marius Hancu
2017-10-10 02:28:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Marius Hancu
~~~
[Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in a
grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and Adna
can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on our feet
again, and the children will feel they've got a place to come to.” All
at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He
~~~
Is this
can come home for Sundays?
Yes.
Thanks, everyone.
--
Marius Hancu
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-10 19:31:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~
[Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in a
grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and Adna
can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on our feet
again, and the children will feel they've got a place to come to.” All
at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter
# "Don't tell us you need us, 'cos we're the ship of fools
Looking for America, coming through your schools..."

Good afternoon, Groupies.

This is the Knack on WAUE.

WAUE Tune Time is 12:25 pm

The defunct magazine Blender's ranking of this song as the worst song
ever was in conjunction with a VH1 Special of The 50 Most Awesomely
Bad Songs...Ever. In 2011 a Rolling Stone magazine online readers
poll named this song as the worst song of the 1980s. The song's
winning margin was so large that the magazine reported it "could be
the biggest blow-out victory in the history of the Rolling Stone
Readers Poll.

Yet, commercially, the single reached number one in Australia, Canada,
and the United States, the top 10 in Germany, Ireland, Sweden, and
Switzerland, the top 20 in Belgium, New Zealand, and the United
Kingdom, and number 21 in Austria and the Netherlands.

The group is an American icon beginning as another "slick" group in
the 1960s and early 1970s and going through several name changes.

This song goes out to AUE's Northern Californians. Supposedly, the
song is about San Francisco.

There is something enduring about Starship's 1985 hit......

This is The Knack on WAUE, and this is Rock 'n Roll.



WAUE Tune Time is 12:31 pm
Ross
2017-10-10 20:06:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~
[Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in a
grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and Adna
can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on our feet
again, and the children will feel they've got a place to come to.” All
at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter
# "Don't tell us you need us, 'cos we're the ship of fools
Looking for America, coming through your schools..."
Good afternoon, Groupies.
This is the Knack on WAUE.
WAUE Tune Time is 12:25 pm
The defunct magazine Blender's ranking of this song as the worst song
ever was in conjunction with a VH1 Special of The 50 Most Awesomely
Bad Songs...Ever. In 2011 a Rolling Stone magazine online readers
poll named this song as the worst song of the 1980s. The song's
winning margin was so large that the magazine reported it "could be
the biggest blow-out victory in the history of the Rolling Stone
Readers Poll.
Yet, commercially, the single reached number one in Australia, Canada,
and the United States, the top 10 in Germany, Ireland, Sweden, and
Switzerland, the top 20 in Belgium, New Zealand, and the United
Kingdom, and number 21 in Austria and the Netherlands.
The group is an American icon beginning as another "slick" group in
the 1960s and early 1970s and going through several name changes.
This song goes out to AUE's Northern Californians. Supposedly, the
song is about San Francisco.
There is something enduring about Starship's 1985 hit......
This is The Knack on WAUE, and this is Rock 'n Roll.
http://youtu.be/K1b8AhIsSYQ
WAUE Tune Time is 12:31 pm
Still hear it on the supermarket muzak from time to time.
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-10 21:56:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Ross
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 9 Oct 2017 21:31:06 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~
[Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in a
grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and Adna
can get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on our feet
again, and the children will feel they've got a place to come to.” All
at once she saw it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter
# "Don't tell us you need us, 'cos we're the ship of fools
Looking for America, coming through your schools..."
Good afternoon, Groupies.
This is the Knack on WAUE.
WAUE Tune Time is 12:25 pm
The defunct magazine Blender's ranking of this song as the worst song
ever was in conjunction with a VH1 Special of The 50 Most Awesomely
Bad Songs...Ever. In 2011 a Rolling Stone magazine online readers
poll named this song as the worst song of the 1980s. The song's
winning margin was so large that the magazine reported it "could be
the biggest blow-out victory in the history of the Rolling Stone
Readers Poll.
Yet, commercially, the single reached number one in Australia, Canada,
and the United States, the top 10 in Germany, Ireland, Sweden, and
Switzerland, the top 20 in Belgium, New Zealand, and the United
Kingdom, and number 21 in Austria and the Netherlands.
The group is an American icon beginning as another "slick" group in
the 1960s and early 1970s and going through several name changes.
This song goes out to AUE's Northern Californians. Supposedly, the
song is about San Francisco.
There is something enduring about Starship's 1985 hit......
This is The Knack on WAUE, and this is Rock 'n Roll.
http://youtu.be/K1b8AhIsSYQ
WAUE Tune Time is 12:31 pm
Still hear it on the supermarket muzak from time to time.
I remember Dick Clark presenting this on "American Bandstand" in the
late 1980's. It was a popular song.
Quinn C
2017-10-13 17:43:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by Ross
Post by Mack A. Damia
There is something enduring about Starship's 1985 hit......
This is The Knack on WAUE, and this is Rock 'n Roll.
http://youtu.be/K1b8AhIsSYQ
WAUE Tune Time is 12:31 pm
Still hear it on the supermarket muzak from time to time.
I remember Dick Clark presenting this on "American Bandstand" in the
late 1980's. It was a popular song.
I don't recognize it. I also hadn't noticed that Jefferson
Airplane had changed it's name, although I can't have consciously
heard much of them while the name I know was current.
--
Who would know aught of art must learn and then take his ease.
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-13 18:13:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 13:43:32 -0400, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by Ross
Post by Mack A. Damia
There is something enduring about Starship's 1985 hit......
This is The Knack on WAUE, and this is Rock 'n Roll.
http://youtu.be/K1b8AhIsSYQ
WAUE Tune Time is 12:31 pm
Still hear it on the supermarket muzak from time to time.
I remember Dick Clark presenting this on "American Bandstand" in the
late 1980's. It was a popular song.
I don't recognize it. I also hadn't noticed that Jefferson
Airplane had changed it's name, although I can't have consciously
heard much of them while the name I know was current.
Peaked at #1 on 11-16-1985.

http://www.billboard.com/music/starship
Quinn C
2017-10-13 18:23:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 13:43:32 -0400, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by Ross
Post by Mack A. Damia
There is something enduring about Starship's 1985 hit......
This is The Knack on WAUE, and this is Rock 'n Roll.
http://youtu.be/K1b8AhIsSYQ
WAUE Tune Time is 12:31 pm
Still hear it on the supermarket muzak from time to time.
I remember Dick Clark presenting this on "American Bandstand" in the
late 1980's. It was a popular song.
I don't recognize it. I also hadn't noticed that Jefferson
Airplane had changed it's name, although I can't have consciously
heard much of them while the name I know was current.
After letting this sit a while, I've probably heard the name
"Jefferson Starship", but didn't make the connection to "Jefferson
Airplane". I definitely didn't notice that there was a band called
just "Starship".
Post by Mack A. Damia
Peaked at #1 on 11-16-1985.
http://www.billboard.com/music/starship
I was in Germany, but even there it reached #10. Therefore, while
it's not surprising that I don't know it by the name of the song
or the group, or by the words alone, I did expect to recognize it
when I hear the music, but I didn't.
--
"Bother", said the Borg, as they assimilated Pooh.
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-13 18:40:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 14:23:37 -0400, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Fri, 13 Oct 2017 13:43:32 -0400, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by Ross
Post by Mack A. Damia
There is something enduring about Starship's 1985 hit......
This is The Knack on WAUE, and this is Rock 'n Roll.
http://youtu.be/K1b8AhIsSYQ
WAUE Tune Time is 12:31 pm
Still hear it on the supermarket muzak from time to time.
I remember Dick Clark presenting this on "American Bandstand" in the
late 1980's. It was a popular song.
I don't recognize it. I also hadn't noticed that Jefferson
Airplane had changed it's name, although I can't have consciously
heard much of them while the name I know was current.
After letting this sit a while, I've probably heard the name
"Jefferson Starship", but didn't make the connection to "Jefferson
Airplane". I definitely didn't notice that there was a band called
just "Starship".
Post by Mack A. Damia
Peaked at #1 on 11-16-1985.
http://www.billboard.com/music/starship
I was in Germany, but even there it reached #10. Therefore, while
it's not surprising that I don't know it by the name of the song
or the group, or by the words alone, I did
It got some of negative vibes from its lyrics.

"Marconi plays the mamba...." That's a snake. It should be "mambo",
and why should Marconi be playing a Latin dance? Is there a
connection?

Still....
Lewis
2017-10-14 01:22:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Quinn C
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by Ross
Post by Mack A. Damia
There is something enduring about Starship's 1985 hit......
This is The Knack on WAUE, and this is Rock 'n Roll.
http://youtu.be/K1b8AhIsSYQ
WAUE Tune Time is 12:31 pm
Still hear it on the supermarket muzak from time to time.
I remember Dick Clark presenting this on "American Bandstand" in the
late 1980's. It was a popular song.
I don't recognize it. I also hadn't noticed that Jefferson
Airplane had changed it's name, although I can't have consciously
heard much of them while the name I know was current.
Consider yourself blessed, That crapton of a song is frequently voted
the worst hit song of all time.
--
"He is a self-made man and worships his creator." - John Bright
Mack A. Damia
2017-10-14 02:18:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 14 Oct 2017 01:22:07 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Quinn C
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by Ross
Post by Mack A. Damia
There is something enduring about Starship's 1985 hit......
This is The Knack on WAUE, and this is Rock 'n Roll.
http://youtu.be/K1b8AhIsSYQ
WAUE Tune Time is 12:31 pm
Still hear it on the supermarket muzak from time to time.
I remember Dick Clark presenting this on "American Bandstand" in the
late 1980's. It was a popular song.
I don't recognize it. I also hadn't noticed that Jefferson
Airplane had changed it's name, although I can't have consciously
heard much of them while the name I know was current.
Consider yourself blessed, That crapton of a song is frequently voted
the worst hit song of all time.
The votes have been tabulated:

You have been voted the dullest dweeb on AUE.

That information is in the original message along with the information
that the single hit #1 on 11-16-1985 in the USA and in the top 20 in
many other countries - so apparently, somebody liked it.

The song went gold on February 24, 1989.

Say more, and I shall taunt you a second time.

Snidely
2017-10-11 08:47:50 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello, everyone,
~~~
[Farming family. Two children have left though, Adna to work in a grocery's.]
“But anyhow, in the summer Emly can come home for a vacation, and Adna can
get down for Sundays: we'll all work together and get on our feet again, and
the children will feel they've got a place to come to.” All at once she saw
it full summer ...
Katherine Anne Porter, He
~~~
Is this
can come home for Sundays?
or
can come with some vehicle and descend from it?
Can come home for Sundays.

Think of the old folks as being "down home".

/dps
--
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain
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