Discussion:
Joyce: leer
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Marius Hancu
2017-04-18 22:05:36 UTC
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Hello,

~~~
[Lenehan, alone in pub here, reflects on Corley's most recent adventure]

When he had eaten all the peas he sipped his ginger beer and sat for
some time thinking of Corley's adventure. In his imagination he beheld
the pair of lovers walking along some dark road; he heard Corley's voice
in deep energetic gallantries, and saw again the leer of the young
woman's mouth. This vision made him feel keenly his own poverty of purse
and spirit.

James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants)
~~~

Re:
"saw again the leer of the young woman's mouth"

The meaning I've found for "leer"
~~~
leer
a sly, sinister, or immodest glance: a knowing or wanton look
M-W U
~~~
doesn't seem to cover Joyce's usage: a mouth cannot throw a glance/look:-)

Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?

Thanks.
--
Marius Hancu
s***@gmail.com
2017-04-18 22:22:03 UTC
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Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[Lenehan, alone in pub here, reflects on Corley's most recent adventure]
When he had eaten all the peas he sipped his ginger beer and sat for
some time thinking of Corley's adventure. In his imagination he beheld
the pair of lovers walking along some dark road; he heard Corley's voice
in deep energetic gallantries, and saw again the leer of the young
woman's mouth. This vision made him feel keenly his own poverty of purse
and spirit.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants)
~~~
"saw again the leer of the young woman's mouth"
The meaning I've found for "leer"
~~~
leer
a sly, sinister, or immodest glance: a knowing or wanton look
M-W U
~~~
doesn't seem to cover Joyce's usage: a mouth cannot throw a glance/look:-)
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
Why do you need a more inclusive one? How do you /form/ a knowing or wanton look?
Leer is indeed a whole-face expression,
but a certain type of smile is generally part of it
(the eyes are the other major part of the expression).

Isn't this just a case of metonymy?

/dps
Marius Hancu
2017-04-19 07:50:04 UTC
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Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Marius Hancu
~~~
[Lenehan, alone in pub here, reflects on Corley's most recent adventure]
When he had eaten all the peas he sipped his ginger beer and sat for
some time thinking of Corley's adventure. In his imagination he beheld
the pair of lovers walking along some dark road; he heard Corley's voice
in deep energetic gallantries, and saw again the leer of the young
woman's mouth. This vision made him feel keenly his own poverty of purse
and spirit.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants)
~~~
"saw again the leer of the young woman's mouth"
The meaning I've found for "leer"
~~~
leer
a sly, sinister, or immodest glance: a knowing or wanton look
M-W U
~~~
doesn't seem to cover Joyce's usage: a mouth cannot throw a glance/look:-)
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
Why do you need a more inclusive one? How do you /form/ a knowing or wanton look?
Leer is indeed a whole-face expression,
Well, the definitions I've seen are related to the glance.
Still, in trying to localize/place the "leer," I've found that at Google Books:

"the leer in his eyes"
About 207 results

"eyes leer"
About 733 results

"the leer of his mouth"
0

"the leer in his mouth"
0

"mouth leer"
About 40 results

"the leer in his face"
5
but only one from a native speaker
~~~
The Silent Cry: A William Monk Novel
Anne Perry - 2010
The leer in his face suggested the obvious, but he refrained from putting words to it.
~~~

"the leer in his expression"
1
Post by s***@gmail.com
but a certain type of smile is generally part of it
(the eyes are the other major part of the expression).
Isn't this just a case of metonymy?
Possibly.

Thank you.
--
Marius Hancu
Harrison Hill
2017-04-18 22:35:36 UTC
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Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[Lenehan, alone in pub here, reflects on Corley's most recent adventure]
When he had eaten all the peas he sipped his ginger beer and sat for
some time thinking of Corley's adventure. In his imagination he beheld
the pair of lovers walking along some dark road; he heard Corley's voice
in deep energetic gallantries, and saw again the leer of the young
woman's mouth. This vision made him feel keenly his own poverty of purse
and spirit.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants)
~~~
"saw again the leer of the young woman's mouth"
The meaning I've found for "leer"
~~~
leer
a sly, sinister, or immodest glance: a knowing or wanton look
M-W U
~~~
doesn't seem to cover Joyce's usage: a mouth cannot throw a glance/look:-)
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
Thanks.
--
Marius Hancu
James Joyce was extremely highly sexed. The "leer"
of you looking at her, and the "leer" of her mouth,
would be easy for him to confuse. One of the greatest
writers.
Hen Hanna
2017-04-18 22:57:14 UTC
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Post by Harrison Hill
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[Lenehan, alone in pub here, reflects on Corley's most recent adventure]
When he had eaten all the peas he sipped his ginger beer and sat for
some time thinking of Corley's adventure. In his imagination he beheld
the pair of lovers walking along some dark road; he heard Corley's voice
in deep energetic gallantries, and saw again the leer of the young
woman's mouth. This vision made him feel keenly his own poverty of purse
and spirit.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants)
~~~
"saw again the leer of the young woman's mouth"
The meaning I've found for "leer"
~~~
leer
a sly, sinister, or immodest glance: a knowing or wanton look
M-W U
~~~
doesn't seem to cover Joyce's usage: a mouth cannot throw a glance/look:-)
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
Thanks.
--
Marius Hancu
James Joyce was extremely highly sexed. The "leer"
of you looking at her, and the "leer" of her mouth,
would be easy for him to confuse. One of the greatest
writers.
Are you saying he (Joyce) confused the two ?



I'm sure lots of Americans (and movie lovers)
reading the passage would think of this:

Loading Image...

HH
CDB
2017-04-19 11:30:08 UTC
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~~~ [Lenehan, alone in pub here, reflects on Corley's most recent
adventure]
When he had eaten all the peas he sipped his ginger beer and sat for
some time thinking of Corley's adventure. In his imagination he
beheld the pair of lovers walking along some dark road; he heard
Corley's voice in deep energetic gallantries, and saw again the leer
of the young woman's mouth. This vision made him feel keenly his own
poverty of purse and spirit.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants) ~~~
Re: "saw again the leer of the young woman's mouth"
The meaning I've found for "leer" ~~~ leer a sly, sinister, or
immodest glance: a knowing or wanton look M-W U ~~~ doesn't seem to
cover Joyce's usage: a mouth cannot throw a glance/look:-)
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
One definition of the verb in the 1848 Webster's is "to allure with smiles".

http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/leer
Marius Hancu
2017-04-19 12:02:07 UTC
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Post by CDB
~~~ [Lenehan, alone in pub here, reflects on Corley's most recent
adventure]
When he had eaten all the peas he sipped his ginger beer and sat for
some time thinking of Corley's adventure. In his imagination he
beheld the pair of lovers walking along some dark road; he heard
Corley's voice in deep energetic gallantries, and saw again the leer
of the young woman's mouth. This vision made him feel keenly his own
poverty of purse and spirit.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants) ~~~
Re: "saw again the leer of the young woman's mouth"
The meaning I've found for "leer" ~~~ leer a sly, sinister, or
immodest glance: a knowing or wanton look M-W U ~~~ doesn't seem to
cover Joyce's usage: a mouth cannot throw a glance/look:-)
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
One definition of the verb in the 1848 Webster's is "to allure with smiles".
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/leer
Quite significant difference.

Thank you.
--
Marius Hancu
Hen Hanna
2017-04-19 15:26:30 UTC
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Post by CDB
~~~ [Lenehan, alone in pub here, reflects on Corley's most recent
adventure]
When he had eaten all the peas he sipped his ginger beer and sat for
some time thinking of Corley's adventure. In his imagination he
beheld the pair of lovers walking along some dark road; he heard
Corley's voice in deep energetic gallantries, and saw again the leer
of the young woman's mouth. This vision made him feel keenly his own
poverty of purse and spirit.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Two Gallants) ~~~
Re: "saw again the leer of the young woman's mouth"
The meaning I've found for "leer" ~~~ leer a sly, sinister, or
immodest glance: a knowing or wanton look M-W U ~~~ doesn't seem to
cover Joyce's usage: a mouth cannot throw a glance/look:-)
Does the OED offer a more inclusive definition?
One definition of the verb in the 1848 Webster's is "to allure with smiles".
http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/leer
i'm also finding:

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/leer
3. (obsolete) One's appearance; countenance.

--- c. 1390, William Langland, Piers Plowman, I:
A loueli ladi of lere · in lynnen yclothed /
Come down fram a castel.

--- Shakespeare
a Rosalind of a better leer than you

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