Discussion:
Not of plastic, but of ...
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Stefan Ram
2018-08-08 00:28:45 UTC
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"A bag like this one - just not of plastic, but of ...

- ... fabric."
- ... cloth."

Would the choice between "fabric" and "cloth" matter here?
It seems to me they are pretty interchangeable in this situation?

What about "... a textile."?
Tony Cooper
2018-08-08 00:45:17 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
"A bag like this one - just not of plastic, but of ...
- ... fabric."
- ... cloth."
Either, but I'd lead with "cloth" unless the material was a bit
special.
Post by Stefan Ram
Would the choice between "fabric" and "cloth" matter here?
It seems to me they are pretty interchangeable in this situation?
What about "... a textile."?
True, but not idiomatic.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Horace LaBadie
2018-08-08 00:53:25 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
"A bag like this one - just not of plastic, but of ...
- ... fabric."
- ... cloth."
Cloth is usually woven from fibers of natural origin.
Fabric can be manmade.

Many times the material is specified -- cotton, hemp, wool. Bag made of
cotton.
Post by Stefan Ram
Would the choice between "fabric" and "cloth" matter here?
It seems to me they are pretty interchangeable in this situation?
What about "... a textile."?
Hardly idiomatic.
Stefan Ram
2018-08-08 01:20:06 UTC
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Post by Horace LaBadie
Post by Stefan Ram
"A bag like this one - just not of plastic, but of ...
- ... fabric."
- ... cloth."
Many times the material is specified -- cotton, hemp, wool. Bag made of
cotton.
In fact, in Germany, there is an expression "burlap instead
of plastic!"¹ ("burlap" and not just "cloth"!). This is used
to jokingly describe people who conspicuously carry bags
made of something like a simple raw burlap or canvas to make
a statement like "back to the nature" or against pollution.

Of course, plastic bags are a real problem as too many of
them end up in the oceans. This is especially a problem in
countries with large coasts and beaches. In fact, I expect
that cheap shopping bags made of plastic will be banned in
the EU in, maybe, ten years. I might then use garbage bags
made of plastic when I need a plastik bag, until - maybe
in 20 years? - they, too, will be banned.

¹ The original German expression is "Jute statt Plastik!".
Horace LaBadie
2018-08-08 02:53:40 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Horace LaBadie
Post by Stefan Ram
"A bag like this one - just not of plastic, but of ...
- ... fabric."
- ... cloth."
Many times the material is specified -- cotton, hemp, wool. Bag made of
cotton.
In fact, in Germany, there is an expression "burlap instead
of plastic!"¹ ("burlap" and not just "cloth"!). This is used
to jokingly describe people who conspicuously carry bags
made of something like a simple raw burlap or canvas to make
a statement like "back to the nature" or against pollution.
Of course, plastic bags are a real problem as too many of
them end up in the oceans. This is especially a problem in
countries with large coasts and beaches. In fact, I expect
that cheap shopping bags made of plastic will be banned in
the EU in, maybe, ten years. I might then use garbage bags
made of plastic when I need a plastik bag, until - maybe
in 20 years? - they, too, will be banned.
¹ The original German expression is "Jute statt Plastik!".
California and Hawaii have banned single-use plastic bags at retailers.
Plastic straws are the next thing to go. Sea World in Florida stopped
using them recently.
Mark Brader
2018-08-08 05:04:21 UTC
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Post by Horace LaBadie
California and Hawaii have banned single-use plastic bags at retailers.
Plastic straws are the next thing to go. Sea World in Florida stopped
using them recently.
Unfortunately, no adequate replacement is available for either.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "He seems unable to win without the added
***@vex.net thrill of changing sides." -- Chess
Peter Moylan
2018-08-08 05:48:53 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Horace LaBadie
California and Hawaii have banned single-use plastic bags at
retailers. Plastic straws are the next thing to go. Sea World in
Florida stopped using them recently.
Unfortunately, no adequate replacement is available for either.
Historically, plastic bags replaced paper bags, and plastic straws
replaced paper straws. Are the originals no longer available?
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Cheryl
2018-08-08 08:31:15 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Horace LaBadie
California and Hawaii have banned single-use plastic bags at
retailers. Plastic straws are the next thing to go. Sea World in
Florida stopped using them recently.
Unfortunately, no adequate replacement is available for either.
Historically, plastic bags replaced paper bags, and plastic straws
replaced paper straws. Are the originals no longer available?
Neither paper straws nor paper bags were quite as sturdy and (in the
case of bags) usable for other purposes as their plastic equivalents;
that's why they were replaced. I can see that many people don't dispose
of their plastic bags correctly, but I still find them useful. I don't
know why the straws are the target-du-jour. I suspect they've just been
chosen as a convenient target - many people don't use them, and it'll be
easy to get rid of them without much of a fight from the smaller number
who need or like them.
--
Cheryl
Cheryl
2018-08-08 08:28:06 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Horace LaBadie
California and Hawaii have banned single-use plastic bags at retailers.
Plastic straws are the next thing to go. Sea World in Florida stopped
using them recently.
Unfortunately, no adequate replacement is available for either.
I carry re-usable bags and also sometimes get plastic bags at the
grocery, because I reuse them for garbage and carrying things like
swimming gear which are too wet for my re-usable bags. So I find that
both types have their place.

I don't use straws myself, but my late brother found them essential as
his disability worsened, and the paper ones aren't nearly as good since
they collapse more easily. I find it hard to believe plastic straws are
such an environmental problem that they need to be banned. Bags,
yes,possibly; many people don't seem to re-use their bags and a lot of
them get blown around,caught in trees and blown into the ocean. They
could learn to handle them better.

One local business used plastic bags that decomposed - I had one or two
that decomposed before I could use them again.
--
Cheryl
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-08-08 10:50:11 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Horace LaBadie
California and Hawaii have banned single-use plastic bags at retailers.
Plastic straws are the next thing to go. Sea World in Florida stopped
using them recently.
Unfortunately, no adequate replacement is available for either.
I carry re-usable bags and also sometimes get plastic bags at the
grocery, because I reuse them for garbage and carrying things like
swimming gear which are too wet for my re-usable bags. So I find that
both types have their place.
I don't use straws myself, but my late brother found them essential as
his disability worsened, and the paper ones aren't nearly as good since
they collapse more easily. I find it hard to believe plastic straws are
such an environmental problem that they need to be banned.
It's remarkable how fact transforms into opinion when that fact is
inconvenient, isn't it? I demand that you watch this video ...



... and then try telling me again that they are not an environmental
problem. It's time to get woke!!!
Peter T. Daniels
2018-08-08 12:11:09 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Cheryl
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Horace LaBadie
California and Hawaii have banned single-use plastic bags at retailers.
Plastic straws are the next thing to go. Sea World in Florida stopped
using them recently.
Unfortunately, no adequate replacement is available for either.
I carry re-usable bags and also sometimes get plastic bags at the
grocery, because I reuse them for garbage and carrying things like
swimming gear which are too wet for my re-usable bags. So I find that
both types have their place.
I don't use straws myself, but my late brother found them essential as
his disability worsened, and the paper ones aren't nearly as good since
they collapse more easily. I find it hard to believe plastic straws are
such an environmental problem that they need to be banned.
It's remarkable how fact transforms into opinion when that fact is
inconvenient, isn't it? I demand that you watch this video ...
http://youtu.be/d2J2qdOrW44
... and then try telling me again that they are not an environmental
problem. It's time to get woke!!!
Maddie is apparently a consumer of pop media.

Peter T. Daniels
2018-08-08 12:09:20 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
I don't use straws myself, but my late brother found them essential as
his disability worsened, and the paper ones aren't nearly as good since
they collapse more easily. I find it hard to believe plastic straws are
such an environmental problem that they need to be banned.
It's because a video of a sea turtle with a straw "through" its nose went
viral. I did not see a picture, but maybe it meant "stuck in."

There has been much objection to the banning from disability rights groups
on exactly the grounds you mention.
Cheryl
2018-08-08 08:23:29 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Horace LaBadie
Post by Stefan Ram
"A bag like this one - just not of plastic, but of ...
- ... fabric."
- ... cloth."
Many times the material is specified -- cotton, hemp, wool. Bag made of
cotton.
In fact, in Germany, there is an expression "burlap instead
of plastic!"¹ ("burlap" and not just "cloth"!). This is used
to jokingly describe people who conspicuously carry bags
made of something like a simple raw burlap or canvas to make
a statement like "back to the nature" or against pollution.
Of course, plastic bags are a real problem as too many of
them end up in the oceans. This is especially a problem in
countries with large coasts and beaches. In fact, I expect
that cheap shopping bags made of plastic will be banned in
the EU in, maybe, ten years. I might then use garbage bags
made of plastic when I need a plastik bag, until - maybe
in 20 years? - they, too, will be banned.
¹ The original German expression is "Jute statt Plastik!".
And what about reusable grocery bags made of plastic? Or a kind of paper
tough enough to wash, if you're careful. I suppose they don't make quite
so dramatic a statement. There are also bags woven out of some kind of
plastic (probably water and soft drink bottles, if you believe the ads),
which can be both sturdy, washable and less likely to rip than the
re-usable bags mad of sheets of plastic. They also seem to confuse the
distinction between woven, natural fabrics and everything else since
they're both woven and non-natural.
--
Cheryl
Stefan Ram
2018-08-08 12:08:08 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
made of something like a simple raw burlap or canvas to make
Please replace "raw" by "rough" above.
Cheryl
2018-08-08 08:20:01 UTC
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Post by Horace LaBadie
Post by Stefan Ram
"A bag like this one - just not of plastic, but of ...
- ... fabric."
- ... cloth."
Cloth is usually woven from fibers of natural origin.
Fabric can be manmade.
Many times the material is specified -- cotton, hemp, wool. Bag made of
cotton.
I've heard a different distinction - "fabric" is a more technical term,
used to mean something you are going to make something out of, "cloth"
is any bit of material you might have lying around. I don't think its a
distinction people make any more, if it ever was common. Nowadays, the
terms seem to be synonyms.
--
Cheryl
Peter Moylan
2018-08-08 10:11:19 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
Post by Stefan Ram
"A bag like this one - just not of plastic, but of ...
- ... fabric." - ... cloth."
Cloth is usually woven from fibers of natural origin. Fabric can be
manmade.
Many times the material is specified -- cotton, hemp, wool. Bag
made of cotton.
I've heard a different distinction - "fabric" is a more technical
term, used to mean something you are going to make something out of,
"cloth" is any bit of material you might have lying around. I don't
think its a distinction people make any more, if it ever was common.
Nowadays, the terms seem to be synonyms.
I think of "fabric" as a mass noun. When you buy fabric, the sales
assistant cuts the length you want from a roll.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Mark Brader
2018-08-08 05:03:45 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
"A bag like this one - just not of plastic, but of ...
- ... fabric."
- ... cloth."
Would the choice between "fabric" and "cloth" matter here?
It seems to me they are pretty interchangeable in this situation?
I'd definitely prefer "cloth", but I would agree that "fabric" is also
correct and pretty much equivalent.

I'd also definitely use "made of" rather than "of", which sounds rather
old-fashioned; and normally I'd reverse the order of the two materials,
so I didn't have to repeat it -- "made of cloth, not plastic".

I'm not sure what "just" is doing in there. I might find it okay
if I had more context.
--
Mark Brader "It is hard to be brave", said Piglet, sniffing
Toronto slightly, "when you're only a Very Small Animal."
***@vex.net -- A.A. Milne, Winnie-the-Pooh

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Cheryl
2018-08-08 08:32:54 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Stefan Ram
"A bag like this one - just not of plastic, but of ...
- ... fabric."
- ... cloth."
Would the choice between "fabric" and "cloth" matter here?
It seems to me they are pretty interchangeable in this situation?
I'd definitely prefer "cloth", but I would agree that "fabric" is also
correct and pretty much equivalent.
I'd also definitely use "made of" rather than "of", which sounds rather
old-fashioned; and normally I'd reverse the order of the two materials,
so I didn't have to repeat it -- "made of cloth, not plastic".
I'm not sure what "just" is doing in there. I might find it okay
if I had more context.
It sounds quite normal to me - a way of drawing attention to the main
difference that is being discussed. "I'm looking for a dress like this
one, just not red but blue or green."
--
Cheryl
Peter Moylan
2018-08-08 10:13:25 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Stefan Ram
"A bag like this one - just not of plastic, but of ...
- ... fabric." - ... cloth."
Would the choice between "fabric" and "cloth" matter here? It
seems to me they are pretty interchangeable in this situation?
I'd definitely prefer "cloth", but I would agree that "fabric" is
also correct and pretty much equivalent.
I'd also definitely use "made of" rather than "of", which sounds
rather old-fashioned; and normally I'd reverse the order of the two
materials, so I didn't have to repeat it -- "made of cloth, not
plastic".
I'm not sure what "just" is doing in there. I might find it okay
if I had more context.
It sounds quite normal to me - a way of drawing attention to the main
difference that is being discussed. "I'm looking for a dress like
this one, just not red but blue or green."
I would put the "just" in a different place. "I'm looking for a dress
just like this one, but blue or green instead of red."
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Stefan Ram
2018-08-08 12:10:20 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
Post by Stefan Ram
"A bag like this one - just not of plastic, but of ...
It sounds quite normal to me - a way of drawing attention to the main
difference that is being discussed. "I'm looking for a dress like this
one, just not red but blue or green."
I wanted to avoid the sequence of two "but" as in:
"A bag like this one - but not of plastic, but of ...".
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