Discussion:
Phrase [ that's the way the cookie crumbles ] is from 1957.
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Hen Hanna
2017-08-01 18:41:59 UTC
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the comment about "strike it rich" -- The (sighted or blind) piano tuner strikes the piano key rich.

reminded me of .... Jack Lemmon and


cookie (n.) 1703, American English, from Dutch koekje "little cake," diminutive of koek "cake," from Middle Dutch koke (see cake (n.)). Slang application to persons attested since 1920. Phrase [that's the way the cookie crumbles] "that's the way things happen" is from 1957.


1957 -- that recent !

I guess that's what a dad or an uncle tells a boy/kid
whose cookie crumbled, fell (to the ground), and
became un-edible ?

Or a simply that a child wants to eat his cookie
and have it WHOLE too ?

HH
Don Phillipson
2017-08-02 01:29:29 UTC
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Post by Hen Hanna
the comment about "strike it rich" -- The (sighted or blind) piano tuner
strikes the piano key rich.
That would be a badly mixed metaphor. "Strike it rich" comes from
(gold) mining; it means to make a valuable discovery.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Robert Bannister
2017-08-02 03:42:23 UTC
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Post by Hen Hanna
the comment about "strike it rich" -- The (sighted or blind) piano tuner strikes the piano key rich.
reminded me of .... Jack Lemmon and
cookie (n.) 1703, American English, from Dutch koekje "little cake," diminutive of koek "cake," from Middle Dutch koke (see cake (n.)). Slang application to persons attested since 1920. Phrase [that's the way the cookie crumbles] "that's the way things happen" is from 1957.
1957 -- that recent !
I guess that's what a dad or an uncle tells a boy/kid
whose cookie crumbled, fell (to the ground), and
became un-edible ?
Or a simply that a child wants to eat his cookie
and have it WHOLE too ?
I am convinced that this phrase came from Laugh-In.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-08-02 11:35:02 UTC
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On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 11:42:23 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Hen Hanna
the comment about "strike it rich" -- The (sighted or blind) piano tuner strikes the piano key rich.
reminded me of .... Jack Lemmon and
cookie (n.) 1703, American English, from Dutch koekje "little cake," diminutive of koek "cake," from Middle Dutch koke (see cake (n.)). Slang application to persons attested since 1920. Phrase [that's the way the cookie crumbles] "that's the way things happen" is from 1957.
1957 -- that recent !
I guess that's what a dad or an uncle tells a boy/kid
whose cookie crumbled, fell (to the ground), and
became un-edible ?
Or a simply that a child wants to eat his cookie
and have it WHOLE too ?
I am convinced that this phrase came from Laugh-In.
All "cookie crumbles" quotations in the OED are from before Laugh-In.

4. Colloq. phr. (chiefly U.S.): that's how (or the way) the cookie
crumbles, (that is) how the position resolves itself; that is the
way it is.
1957 Sat. Evening Post 7 Sept. 59 From then on, that's the way
the cooky crumbled. I enjoyed having good ratings, but I didn't
enjoy the viciousness of the railbirds' thrusts at Berle.
1959 W. Brown Cry Kill iv. 45 No matter how the cookie crumbled,
Mamma Ida was in for a bad time.
1961 P. G. Wodehouse Ice in Bedroom v. 40 Oh well, that's the
way the cookie crumbles. You can't win 'em all.
1964 Listener 16 Apr. 612/2 We shall not know how, as the
Americans say, the cookie crumbles.

The first episode of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In was on January 22, 1968.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Adam Funk
2017-08-02 11:54:19 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
All "cookie crumbles" quotations in the OED are from before Laugh-In.
4. Colloq. phr. (chiefly U.S.): that's how (or the way) the cookie
crumbles, (that is) how the position resolves itself; that is the
way it is.
1957 Sat. Evening Post 7 Sept. 59 From then on, that's the way
the cooky crumbled. I enjoyed having good ratings, but I didn't
enjoy the viciousness of the railbirds' thrusts at Berle.
1959 W. Brown Cry Kill iv. 45 No matter how the cookie crumbled,
Mamma Ida was in for a bad time.
1961 P. G. Wodehouse Ice in Bedroom v. 40 Oh well, that's the
way the cookie crumbles. You can't win 'em all.
1964 Listener 16 Apr. 612/2 We shall not know how, as the
Americans say, the cookie crumbles.
The first episode of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In was on January 22, 1968.
"Sic friat crustulum", according to Humez & Humez.
--
...the reason why so many professional artists drink a lot is not
necessarily very much to do with the artistic temperament, etc. It is
simply that they can afford to, because they can normally take a large
part of a day off to deal with the ravages. --- Amis _On Drink_
Peter Moylan
2017-08-02 12:22:19 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
All "cookie crumbles" quotations in the OED are from before Laugh-In.
4. Colloq. phr. (chiefly U.S.): that's how (or the way) the cookie
crumbles, (that is) how the position resolves itself; that is the
way it is.
1957 Sat. Evening Post 7 Sept. 59 From then on, that's the way
the cooky crumbled. I enjoyed having good ratings, but I didn't
enjoy the viciousness of the railbirds' thrusts at Berle.
1959 W. Brown Cry Kill iv. 45 No matter how the cookie crumbled,
Mamma Ida was in for a bad time.
1961 P. G. Wodehouse Ice in Bedroom v. 40 Oh well, that's the
way the cookie crumbles. You can't win 'em all.
1964 Listener 16 Apr. 612/2 We shall not know how, as the
Americans say, the cookie crumbles.
The first episode of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In was on January 22, 1968.
"Sic friat crustulum", according to Humez & Humez.
"Sic biscuitus disintegrat" can also be found, although somewhat
illogically "disintegratum" appears to be more common on the web.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Jerry Friedman
2017-08-02 22:50:33 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
All "cookie crumbles" quotations in the OED are from before Laugh-In.
4. Colloq. phr. (chiefly U.S.): that's how (or the way) the cookie
crumbles, (that is) how the position resolves itself; that is the
way it is.
1957 Sat. Evening Post 7 Sept. 59 From then on, that's the way
the cooky crumbled. I enjoyed having good ratings, but I didn't
enjoy the viciousness of the railbirds' thrusts at Berle.
1959 W. Brown Cry Kill iv. 45 No matter how the cookie crumbled,
Mamma Ida was in for a bad time.
1961 P. G. Wodehouse Ice in Bedroom v. 40 Oh well, that's the
way the cookie crumbles. You can't win 'em all.
1964 Listener 16 Apr. 612/2 We shall not know how, as the
Americans say, the cookie crumbles.
The first episode of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In was on January 22, 1968.
"Sic friat crustulum", according to Humez & Humez.
"Sic biscuitus disintegrat" can also be found, although somewhat
illogically "disintegratum" appears to be more common on the web.
Biscoctus?
--
Jerry Friedman
Adam Funk
2017-08-11 00:04:38 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
All "cookie crumbles" quotations in the OED are from before Laugh-In.
4. Colloq. phr. (chiefly U.S.): that's how (or the way) the cookie
crumbles, (that is) how the position resolves itself; that is the
way it is.
1957 Sat. Evening Post 7 Sept. 59 From then on, that's the way
the cooky crumbled. I enjoyed having good ratings, but I didn't
enjoy the viciousness of the railbirds' thrusts at Berle.
1959 W. Brown Cry Kill iv. 45 No matter how the cookie crumbled,
Mamma Ida was in for a bad time.
1961 P. G. Wodehouse Ice in Bedroom v. 40 Oh well, that's the
way the cookie crumbles. You can't win 'em all.
1964 Listener 16 Apr. 612/2 We shall not know how, as the
Americans say, the cookie crumbles.
The first episode of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In was on January 22, 1968.
"Sic friat crustulum", according to Humez & Humez.
"Sic biscuitus disintegrat" can also be found, although somewhat
illogically "disintegratum" appears to be more common on the web.
cf. "non illegitimi carborundum"
--
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.
--- President Muffley
RH Draney
2017-08-02 12:36:29 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 11:42:23 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Hen Hanna
the comment about "strike it rich" -- The (sighted or blind) piano tuner strikes the piano key rich.
reminded me of .... Jack Lemmon and
cookie (n.) 1703, American English, from Dutch koekje "little cake," diminutive of koek "cake," from Middle Dutch koke (see cake (n.)). Slang application to persons attested since 1920. Phrase [that's the way the cookie crumbles] "that's the way things happen" is from 1957.
1957 -- that recent !
I guess that's what a dad or an uncle tells a boy/kid
whose cookie crumbled, fell (to the ground), and
became un-edible ?
Or a simply that a child wants to eat his cookie
and have it WHOLE too ?
I am convinced that this phrase came from Laugh-In.
All "cookie crumbles" quotations in the OED are from before Laugh-In.
4. Colloq. phr. (chiefly U.S.): that's how (or the way) the cookie
crumbles, (that is) how the position resolves itself; that is the
way it is.
1957 Sat. Evening Post 7 Sept. 59 From then on, that's the way
the cooky crumbled. I enjoyed having good ratings, but I didn't
enjoy the viciousness of the railbirds' thrusts at Berle.
1959 W. Brown Cry Kill iv. 45 No matter how the cookie crumbled,
Mamma Ida was in for a bad time.
1961 P. G. Wodehouse Ice in Bedroom v. 40 Oh well, that's the
way the cookie crumbles. You can't win 'em all.
1964 Listener 16 Apr. 612/2 We shall not know how, as the
Americans say, the cookie crumbles.
The first episode of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In was on January 22, 1968.
There are two occasions during the run of "Laugh-In" where the "that's
the way" meme was explored...one was a series of meat-related phrases
("that's the way the weiner schnitzels!"), concluding with Goldie Hawn
saying "that's the way the pork!"...the other used musical instruments
("that's the way the French horns!"), with Goldie providing the closing
"that's the way the drum!"....r
HVS
2017-08-02 14:36:08 UTC
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Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 11:42:23 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
I am convinced that this phrase came from Laugh-In.
All "cookie crumbles" quotations in the OED are from before
Laugh-In.
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
4. Colloq. phr. (chiefly U.S.): that's how (or the way) the cookie
crumbles, (that is) how the position resolves itself; that is the
way it is.
1957 Sat. Evening Post 7 Sept. 59 From then on, that's the way
the cooky crumbled. I enjoyed having good ratings, but I didn't
enjoy the viciousness of the railbirds' thrusts at Berle.
1959 W. Brown Cry Kill iv. 45 No matter how the cookie crumbled,
Mamma Ida was in for a bad time.
1961 P. G. Wodehouse Ice in Bedroom v. 40 Oh well,
that's the
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
way the cookie crumbles. You can't win 'em all.
1964 Listener 16 Apr. 612/2 We shall not know how, as the
Americans say, the cookie crumbles.
The first episode of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In was on January 22, 1968.
There are two occasions during the run of "Laugh-In" where the
"that's
Post by RH Draney
the way" meme was explored...one was a series of meat-related
phrases
Post by RH Draney
("that's the way the weiner schnitzels!"), concluding with Goldie Hawn
saying "that's the way the pork!"...the other used musical
instruments
Post by RH Draney
("that's the way the French horns!"), with Goldie providing the closing
"that's the way the drum!"....r
The first riff on it that I recall hearing was a joke about someone
wrapping their car around a telephone pole and remarking "I guess
that's the way the Mercedes bends".
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years),
indiscriminately mixed
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-02 13:34:00 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Wed, 2 Aug 2017 11:42:23 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Hen Hanna
the comment about "strike it rich" -- The (sighted or blind) piano tuner strikes the piano key rich.
reminded me of .... Jack Lemmon and
cookie (n.) 1703, American English, from Dutch koekje "little cake," diminutive of koek "cake," from Middle Dutch koke (see cake (n.)). Slang application to persons attested since 1920. Phrase [that's the way the cookie crumbles] "that's the way things happen" is from 1957.
1957 -- that recent !
I guess that's what a dad or an uncle tells a boy/kid
whose cookie crumbled, fell (to the ground), and
became un-edible ?
Or a simply that a child wants to eat his cookie
and have it WHOLE too ?
I am convinced that this phrase came from Laugh-In.
All "cookie crumbles" quotations in the OED are from before Laugh-In.
4. Colloq. phr. (chiefly U.S.): that's how (or the way) the cookie
crumbles, (that is) how the position resolves itself; that is the
way it is.
1957 Sat. Evening Post 7 Sept. 59 From then on, that's the way
the cooky crumbled. I enjoyed having good ratings, but I didn't
enjoy the viciousness of the railbirds' thrusts at Berle.
1959 W. Brown Cry Kill iv. 45 No matter how the cookie crumbled,
Mamma Ida was in for a bad time.
Those must be very close to the origin of the phrase, because it's never (modulo
Tony Cooper) used in the past. Also the spelling <cooky> is at best archaic. (In
7th grade our class had a foofaraw because our Home Room teacher, Sister Lucia, insisted
that <cookie> was wrong, and we that it was right, and it made it all the way to a
faculty meeting -- because the next day our English teacher entered the room
and said without preliminaries "Eye Ee.")
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
1961 P. G. Wodehouse Ice in Bedroom v. 40 Oh well, that's the
way the cookie crumbles. You can't win 'em all.
1964 Listener 16 Apr. 612/2 We shall not know how, as the
Americans say, the cookie crumbles.
The first episode of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In was on January 22, 1968.
The "Decades" network is showing *Laugh-In* daily. Its pace is frenetic even for
today's music-video-conditioned sort of fast cutting. The episode I saw was either
before or after Lily Tomlin, alas. Peter Lawford was very, very short.
J. J. Lodder
2017-08-05 13:00:31 UTC
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Post by Hen Hanna
the comment about "strike it rich" -- The (sighted or blind) piano tuner
strikes the piano key rich.
reminded me of .... Jack Lemmon and
cookie (n.) 1703, American English, from Dutch koekje "little cake,"
diminutive of koek "cake," from Middle Dutch koke (see cake (n.)). Slang
application to persons attested since 1920. Phrase [that's the way the
cookie crumbles] "that's the way things happen" is from 1957.
1957 -- that recent !
Yes. The expression is completely unknown to the Dutch.
(who say for example: 'zo gaat dat nu eenmaal')

Perhaps Vonnegut's 'So it goes' has Dutch roots,

Jan
Adam Funk
2017-08-11 00:07:19 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hen Hanna
the comment about "strike it rich" -- The (sighted or blind) piano tuner
strikes the piano key rich.
reminded me of .... Jack Lemmon and
cookie (n.) 1703, American English, from Dutch koekje "little cake,"
diminutive of koek "cake," from Middle Dutch koke (see cake (n.)). Slang
application to persons attested since 1920. Phrase [that's the way the
cookie crumbles] "that's the way things happen" is from 1957.
1957 -- that recent !
Yes. The expression is completely unknown to the Dutch.
(who say for example: 'zo gaat dat nu eenmaal')
Perhaps Vonnegut's 'So it goes' has Dutch roots,
More likely German, if there's a similar German saying, but

Although both of Vonnegut's parents were fluent German speakers,
the ill feeling toward that country during and after World War I
caused the Vonneguts to abandon that culture to show their
American patriotism. Thus, they did not teach their youngest son
German or introduce him to German literature and tradition,
leaving him feeling "ignorant and rootless."[4][5]

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Vonnegut#Family_and_early_life>
--
I take no pleasure in being right in my dark predictions about the
fate of our military intervention in the heart of the Muslim world. It
is immensely depressing to me. Nobody likes to be betting against the
Home team, no matter how hopeless they are. --- Hunter S Thompson
J. J. Lodder
2017-08-12 09:16:15 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hen Hanna
the comment about "strike it rich" -- The (sighted or blind) piano tuner
strikes the piano key rich.
reminded me of .... Jack Lemmon and
cookie (n.) 1703, American English, from Dutch koekje "little cake,"
diminutive of koek "cake," from Middle Dutch koke (see cake (n.)). Slang
application to persons attested since 1920. Phrase [that's the way the
cookie crumbles] "that's the way things happen" is from 1957.
1957 -- that recent !
Yes. The expression is completely unknown to the Dutch.
(who say for example: 'zo gaat dat nu eenmaal')
Perhaps Vonnegut's 'So it goes' has Dutch roots,
More likely German, if there's a similar German saying, but
Although both of Vonnegut's parents were fluent German speakers,
the ill feeling toward that country during and after World War I
caused the Vonneguts to abandon that culture to show their
American patriotism. Thus, they did not teach their youngest son
German or introduce him to German literature and tradition,
leaving him feeling "ignorant and rootless."[4][5]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Vonnegut#Family_and_early_life>
I was thinking Vonnegut may have picked it up in New York,
where it may have survived from Nieuw Amsterdam.

Anyone here speaks old New-Yorkish?

Jan

PS Quite apprpriately an expression such as 'zo gaat dat (nu eenmaal)'
'so it goes' is known in Dutch as a 'dooddoener'
(lit. dead doer', more approp. kill phrase, stop phrase)
It is usually an easy way to kill the current tread of conversation.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-08-12 13:34:10 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Adam Funk
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hen Hanna
the comment about "strike it rich" -- The (sighted or blind) piano tuner
strikes the piano key rich.
reminded me of .... Jack Lemmon and
cookie (n.) 1703, American English, from Dutch koekje "little cake,"
diminutive of koek "cake," from Middle Dutch koke (see cake (n.)). Slang
application to persons attested since 1920. Phrase [that's the way the
cookie crumbles] "that's the way things happen" is from 1957.
1957 -- that recent !
Yes. The expression is completely unknown to the Dutch.
(who say for example: 'zo gaat dat nu eenmaal')
Perhaps Vonnegut's 'So it goes' has Dutch roots,
More likely German, if there's a similar German saying, but
Although both of Vonnegut's parents were fluent German speakers,
the ill feeling toward that country during and after World War I
caused the Vonneguts to abandon that culture to show their
American patriotism. Thus, they did not teach their youngest son
German or introduce him to German literature and tradition,
leaving him feeling "ignorant and rootless."[4][5]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Vonnegut#Family_and_early_life>
I was thinking Vonnegut may have picked it up in New York,
where it may have survived from Nieuw Amsterdam.
Anyone here speaks old New-Yorkish?
Are you suggesting that it wasn't generally known before it was used so
effectively in his novel? It certainly didn't seem unusual to this New Yorker,
so you may be right.
Post by J. J. Lodder
PS Quite apprpriately an expression such as 'zo gaat dat (nu eenmaal)'
'so it goes' is known in Dutch as a 'dooddoener'
(lit. dead doer', more approp. kill phrase, stop phrase)
It is usually an easy way to kill the current tread of conversation.
Cf. "conversation-stopper," but that wouldn't refer to a cliche like this one,
but to the mention of an unmentionable subject (uncle's drinking, for instance).
Adam Funk
2017-08-20 01:03:36 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Adam Funk
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Hen Hanna
the comment about "strike it rich" -- The (sighted or blind) piano tuner
strikes the piano key rich.
reminded me of .... Jack Lemmon and
cookie (n.) 1703, American English, from Dutch koekje "little cake,"
diminutive of koek "cake," from Middle Dutch koke (see cake (n.)). Slang
application to persons attested since 1920. Phrase [that's the way the
cookie crumbles] "that's the way things happen" is from 1957.
1957 -- that recent !
Yes. The expression is completely unknown to the Dutch.
(who say for example: 'zo gaat dat nu eenmaal')
Perhaps Vonnegut's 'So it goes' has Dutch roots,
More likely German, if there's a similar German saying, but
Although both of Vonnegut's parents were fluent German speakers,
the ill feeling toward that country during and after World War I
caused the Vonneguts to abandon that culture to show their
American patriotism. Thus, they did not teach their youngest son
German or introduce him to German literature and tradition,
leaving him feeling "ignorant and rootless."[4][5]
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Vonnegut#Family_and_early_life>
I was thinking Vonnegut may have picked it up in New York,
where it may have survived from Nieuw Amsterdam.
Anyone here speaks old New-Yorkish?
Are you suggesting that it wasn't generally known before it was used so
effectively in his novel? It certainly didn't seem unusual to this New Yorker,
so you may be right.
Interesting.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by J. J. Lodder
PS Quite apprpriately an expression such as 'zo gaat dat (nu eenmaal)'
'so it goes' is known in Dutch as a 'dooddoener'
(lit. dead doer', more approp. kill phrase, stop phrase)
It is usually an easy way to kill the current tread of conversation.
Cf. "conversation-stopper," but that wouldn't refer to a cliche like this one,
but to the mention of an unmentionable subject (uncle's drinking, for instance).
Interesting comparison!
--
Thinking about her this morning, lying in bed, and trying to get my
thoughts on the right track, I reached into the drawer of the bedstand,
and found the Gideons' Bible, and I was going for the Psalms, friend, honest
I was, but I found the Song of Solomon instead. --- Garrison Keillor
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