Discussion:
Verb to describe contactless payment
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Marcin Mały
2016-09-13 05:37:05 UTC
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I've been using two different textbooks with my students of computing science. In both of them, there are chapters about e-commerce, banking and credit cards. They both use the verb "swipe" to describe the activity performed while paying with a credit card. I assume this is the verb which can be used to describe the process with an old-fashioned credit card, a card with a magnetic stripe.
Nowadays, you don't often swipe your card, do you? What is the correct verb to describe the more modern ways of paying? Do you "tap" your card? Is it correct? Are there any other words to describe this?
And when your payment is not contactless, what do you do? "Insert" your card into the reader?
I would really appreciate an opinion from native speakers, thank you.
--
http://www.anglista.edu.pl
Mark Brader
2016-09-13 07:33:46 UTC
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Post by Marcin Mały
I've been using two different textbooks with my students of computing
science. In both of them, there are chapters about e-commerce, banking
and credit cards. They both use the verb "swipe" to describe the
activity performed while paying with a credit card. I assume this is the
verb which can be used to describe the process with an old-fashioned
credit card, a card with a magnetic stripe.
That's how I'd interpret it.

However, I'd like to point out that a *really* old-fashioned credit card
didn't have a magnetic stripe either. You handed it to the clerk, who
put it in an imprinting machine that used carbon paper to copy the
raised lettering on the card:

Loading Image...

and then you signed the imprinted slip, and the clerk checked your
signature against the one on the card. Or was supposed to, anyway.
Post by Marcin Mały
Nowadays, you don't often swipe your card, do you?
Only when visiting the US, where chip readers are not yet widespread.
Post by Marcin Mały
What is the correct verb to describe the more modern ways of paying?
Do you "tap" your card?
I don't usually use contactless payment, but I think that's the right term.
Post by Marcin Mały
And when your payment is not contactless, what do you do? "Insert" your
card into the reader?
With a chip reader, yes, I insert it.
--
Mark Brader | "The occasional accidents had been much overemphasized,
Toronto | and later investigations ... revealed that nearly 90%
***@vex.net | ... could have been prevented." --Wiley Post, 1931

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Peter T. Daniels
2016-09-13 11:46:55 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Marcin Mały
I've been using two different textbooks with my students of computing
science. In both of them, there are chapters about e-commerce, banking
and credit cards. They both use the verb "swipe" to describe the
activity performed while paying with a credit card. I assume this is the
verb which can be used to describe the process with an old-fashioned
credit card, a card with a magnetic stripe.
That's how I'd interpret it.
However, I'd like to point out that a *really* old-fashioned credit card
didn't have a magnetic stripe either. You handed it to the clerk, who
put it in an imprinting machine that used carbon paper to copy the
Irrelevant. New cards don't have embossed portions.
http://archive.fortune.com/assets/i2.cdn.turner.com/money/galleries/2008/fortune/0810/gallery.mastercard.fortune/images/1960_manual_imprint.cr.jpg
Post by Mark Brader
and then you signed the imprinted slip, and the clerk checked your
signature against the one on the card. Or was supposed to, anyway.
Post by Marcin Mały
Nowadays, you don't often swipe your card, do you?
Only when visiting the US, where chip readers are not yet widespread.
False. All the major credit cards have switched, and even small retailers
have upgraded to chip readers. Maybe they don't own the equipment and
it's simply replaced on a regular cycle by the vendor.
s***@gowanhill.com
2016-09-13 12:56:35 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mark Brader
However, I'd like to point out that a *really* old-fashioned credit card
didn't have a magnetic stripe either. You handed it to the clerk, who
put it in an imprinting machine that used carbon paper to copy the
Irrelevant. New cards don't have embossed portions.
Most still do. The difference is that cards with embossing can be processed off-line (including using an imprinter if necessary, if all other systems are down, and subject to other conditions such as retailer floor limit) and cards without embossing must always be processed on-line.

An example of this is Visa Electron which is/was not accepted on UK trains using Avantix ticket machines, because Avantix Mk I didn't have any on-line verification and did an end-of-shift upload to the train operator's cashier system.

Off-line cards (even debit cards) thus have an element of credit and so applicants are usually credit-scored. It's easier to get an on-line card such as Electron because there is no credit possible as all transactions must be verified against the available balance.

Owain
Peter Moylan
2016-09-13 13:17:00 UTC
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Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mark Brader
However, I'd like to point out that a *really* old-fashioned credit card
didn't have a magnetic stripe either. You handed it to the clerk, who
put it in an imprinting machine that used carbon paper to copy the
Irrelevant. New cards don't have embossed portions.
Most still do. The difference is that cards with embossing can be processed off-line (including using an imprinter if necessary, if all other systems are down, and subject to other conditions such as retailer floor limit) and cards without embossing must always be processed on-line.
An example of this is Visa Electron which is/was not accepted on UK trains using Avantix ticket machines, because Avantix Mk I didn't have any on-line verification and did an end-of-shift upload to the train operator's cashier system.
Off-line cards (even debit cards) thus have an element of credit and so applicants are usually credit-scored. It's easier to get an on-line card such as Electron because there is no credit possible as all transactions must be verified against the available balance.
I received my new debit card a few weeks ago, because my building
society has moved to a new card system. It has all four interface
methods: PayWave, embedded chip, magnetic stripe, and embossing for
manual machines. Some merchants do lose their internet connection now
and then, so a backup method of manual processing is essential. The card
merchants would be crazy to drop support for that method.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
2016-09-13 13:29:57 UTC
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[no, he didn't]
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mark Brader
However, I'd like to point out that a *really* old-fashioned credit card
didn't have a magnetic stripe either. You handed it to the clerk, who
put it in an imprinting machine that used carbon paper to copy the
Irrelevant. New cards don't have embossed portions.
Most still do. The difference is that cards with embossing can be processed off-line (including using an imprinter if necessary, if all other systems are down, and subject to other conditions such as retailer floor limit) and cards without embossing must always be processed on-line.
An example of this is Visa Electron which is/was not accepted on UK trains using Avantix ticket machines, because Avantix Mk I didn't have any on-line verification and did an end-of-shift upload to the train operator's cashier system.
Off-line cards (even debit cards) thus have an element of credit and so applicants are usually credit-scored. It's easier to get an on-line card such as Electron because there is no credit possible as all transactions must be verified against the available balance.
I received my new debit card a few weeks ago, because my building
society has moved to a new card system. It has all four interface
methods: PayWave, embedded chip, magnetic stripe, and embossing for
manual machines. Some merchants do lose their internet connection now
and then, so a backup method of manual processing is essential. The card
merchants would be crazy to drop support for that method.
Ok, DiscoverCard is crazy.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2016-09-13 13:19:33 UTC
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Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mark Brader
However, I'd like to point out that a *really* old-fashioned credit card
didn't have a magnetic stripe either. You handed it to the clerk, who
put it in an imprinting machine that used carbon paper to copy the
Irrelevant. New cards don't have embossed portions.
Most still do.
Yes. All my debit and credit cards issued in the UK have embossed
(raised) digits and letters. They are reflective silver in colour which
makes them difficult to read at most angles. That "traditional" style
might have been retained as a security feature.

All those cards have a magnetic stripe, contacts to a buried chip for
the chip-and-PIN system, and, also buried inside, an RFID chip and
antenna for contactless payments.
Post by s***@gowanhill.com
The difference is that cards with embossing can be processed off-line (including using an imprinter if necessary, if all other systems are down, and subject to other conditions such as retailer floor limit) and cards without embossing must always be processed on-line.
An example of this is Visa Electron which is/was not accepted on UK trains using Avantix ticket machines, because Avantix Mk I didn't have any on-line verification and did an end-of-shift upload to the train operator's cashier system.
Off-line cards (even debit cards) thus have an element of credit and so applicants are usually credit-scored. It's easier to get an on-line card such as Electron because there is no credit possible as all transactions must be verified against the available balance.
Owain
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Tony Cooper
2016-09-13 13:37:23 UTC
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Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mark Brader
However, I'd like to point out that a *really* old-fashioned credit card
didn't have a magnetic stripe either. You handed it to the clerk, who
put it in an imprinting machine that used carbon paper to copy the
Irrelevant. New cards don't have embossed portions.
Most still do.
I just received two new Mastercards as replacement cards for an
existing account. There was some sort of data breach, and the card
company suggested changing account numbers.

The new cards have the embedded chip and magnetic stripe, and the
numbers are embossed.
Post by s***@gowanhill.com
The difference is that cards with embossing can be processed off-line (including using an imprinter if necessary, if all other systems are down, and subject to other conditions such as retailer floor limit) and cards without embossing must always be processed on-line.
An example of this is Visa Electron which is/was not accepted on UK trains using Avantix ticket machines, because Avantix Mk I didn't have any on-line verification and did an end-of-shift upload to the train operator's cashier system.
Off-line cards (even debit cards) thus have an element of credit and so applicants are usually credit-scored. It's easier to get an on-line card such as Electron because there is no credit possible as all transactions must be verified against the available balance.
Owain
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Charles Bishop
2016-09-13 14:39:44 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mark Brader
However, I'd like to point out that a *really* old-fashioned credit card
didn't have a magnetic stripe either. You handed it to the clerk, who
put it in an imprinting machine that used carbon paper to copy the
Irrelevant. New cards don't have embossed portions.
Most still do.
I just received two new Mastercards as replacement cards for an
existing account. There was some sort of data breach, and the card
company suggested changing account numbers.
The new cards have the embedded chip and magnetic stripe, and the
numbers are embossed.
Shall we wait to see how PTD explains the difference between his opinion
and what others experience?
--
charles, entertaining to watch
Charles Bishop
2016-09-13 14:36:34 UTC
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Post by s***@gowanhill.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mark Brader
However, I'd like to point out that a *really* old-fashioned credit card
didn't have a magnetic stripe either. You handed it to the clerk, who
put it in an imprinting machine that used carbon paper to copy the
Irrelevant. New cards don't have embossed portions.
Most still do. The difference is that cards with embossing can be processed
off-line (including using an imprinter if necessary, if all other systems are
down, and subject to other conditions such as retailer floor limit) and cards
without embossing must always be processed on-line.
All four of my cards have the raised letters and numbers even though
they are used with swipe or insert.

About half of the places where I use them don't yet have the ability to
use a card that's chipped and that card still needs to be swiped. It may
be that they haven't upgraded the equipment, but even if they did, two
of my cards don't have a chip.

I do have a prepaid card that is "tapped" to pay fares on the LA Metro
system.

This is mostly in western states of the US if that makes a difference.
Post by s***@gowanhill.com
An example of this is Visa Electron which is/was not accepted on UK trains
using Avantix ticket machines, because Avantix Mk I didn't have any on-line
verification and did an end-of-shift upload to the train operator's cashier
system.
Off-line cards (even debit cards) thus have an element of credit and so
applicants are usually credit-scored. It's easier to get an on-line card such
as Electron because there is no credit possible as all transactions must be
verified against the available balance.
--
charles
Garrett Wollman
2016-09-13 14:45:43 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
All four of my cards have the raised letters and numbers even though
they are used with swipe or insert.
About half of the places where I use them don't yet have the ability to
use a card that's chipped and that card still needs to be swiped. It may
be that they haven't upgraded the equipment, but even if they did, two
of my cards don't have a chip.
There are different deadlines for different classes of merchants.
Most retailers have until 2017 to upgrade, but pay-at-the-pump
terminals at gas stations have much longer (I want to say 2019 or
2020) due to the much longer design life of those devices.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
***@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Richard Tobin
2016-09-13 14:42:08 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mark Brader
However, I'd like to point out that a *really* old-fashioned credit card
didn't have a magnetic stripe either. You handed it to the clerk, who
put it in an imprinting machine that used carbon paper to copy the
Irrelevant. New cards don't have embossed portions.
The one I received yesterday does.

And only a year or two ago I had a card run through an imprinting
machine when the network wasn't working.

-- Richard
Peter Young
2016-09-13 15:04:18 UTC
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Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mark Brader
However, I'd like to point out that a *really* old-fashioned credit card
didn't have a magnetic stripe either. You handed it to the clerk, who
put it in an imprinting machine that used carbon paper to copy the
Irrelevant. New cards don't have embossed portions.
The one I received yesterday does.
And only a year or two ago I had a card run through an imprinting
machine when the network wasn't working.
Copied from a post to The Other Group:

The only word I would use in connection with contactless payments is
"don't" See:
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet-security/11758990/Contactless-cards-at-risk-of-fraud-warns-Which.html>


Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Ir)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Peter T. Daniels
2016-09-13 11:44:44 UTC
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Post by Marcin Mały
I've been using two different textbooks with my students of computing science. In both of them, there are chapters about e-commerce, banking and credit cards. They both use the verb "swipe" to describe the activity performed while paying with a credit card. I assume this is the verb which can be used to describe the process with an old-fashioned credit card, a card with a magnetic stripe.
Nowadays, you don't often swipe your card, do you? What is the correct verb to describe the more modern ways of paying? Do you "tap" your card? Is it correct? Are there any other words to describe this?
And when your payment is not contactless, what do you do? "Insert" your card into the reader?
I would really appreciate an opinion from native speakers, thank you.
You insert your chip card into the slot at the base of the card reader.

If you swipe a chip card it tells you to insert it.

The US doesn't have "contactless credit cards" or "tap" credit
cards. It uses "contactless" sensors for vehicle tolls and "tap"
for entry to transportation. Sometimes. The NYC transit system,
having been ahead of the curve in the 1990s, has "swipe" or
"dip" (on buses) cards, and replacing all that hardware -- multiple
turnstiles in 469 stations, and thousands of buses -- will be enormously
expensive and take years; and will have to remain compatible with
the existing system all that time.
Tak To
2016-09-13 14:13:02 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Marcin Mały
I've been using two different textbooks with my students of computing science. In both of them, there are chapters about e-commerce, banking and credit cards. They both use the verb "swipe" to describe the activity performed while paying with a credit card. I assume this is the verb which can be used to describe the process with an old-fashioned credit card, a card with a magnetic stripe.
Nowadays, you don't often swipe your card, do you? What is the correct verb to describe the more modern ways of paying? Do you "tap" your card? Is it correct? Are there any other words to describe this?
And when your payment is not contactless, what do you do? "Insert" your card into the reader?
I would really appreciate an opinion from native speakers, thank you.
You insert your chip card into the slot at the base of the card reader.
If you swipe a chip card it tells you to insert it.
The US doesn't have "contactless credit cards" or "tap" credit
cards. It uses "contactless" sensors for vehicle tolls and "tap"
for entry to transportation. Sometimes. The NYC transit system,
having been ahead of the curve in the 1990s, has "swipe" or
"dip" (on buses) cards, and replacing all that hardware -- multiple
turnstiles in 469 stations, and thousands of buses -- will be enormously
expensive and take years; and will have to remain compatible with
the existing system all that time.
The MTA should have taken a lesson from other cities around the
world and partnered with other government agencies and business
to promote having a single card as an electronic purse. Witness
the success of the (contactless) Octopus card in Hong Kong, where
it can be used in almost all point of sales terminals, including
those in taxis. The Octopus card was first introduced in 1997.

That said, US banks are too entrenched in their business model
of collecting a fat percentage from the merchants as well as
high interest from consumers to think innovation -- except in
new ways of luring consumers such as "rebates". That is why
debit card was never a hit and the concept of an anonymous
electronic purse was never encouraged. Now it is up to Apple
and like to promote "<Proprietary> Pay".

Bankers influenced banking policy agencies do not help either.
Look at how Paypal still does not have a banking license in the
US.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Garrett Wollman
2016-09-13 14:37:02 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
The US doesn't have "contactless credit cards" or "tap" credit
cards.
Nonsense. VISA even had a big advertising campaign for them about a
decade ago. The terminals were much more expensive and most merchants
did not care to spend the money for an upgrade. Some fast-food places
did. Since there were so few merchants that accepted them, and there
was a great deal of fear that you could unknowingly be charged for
something (or identified) by reading the card in your wallet, most of
the issuing banks chose not to issue contactless cards by default,
giving merchants little incentive to buy the more expensive terminals.
This was particularly the case at the many large retail chains that
had magstripe readers integrated into their POS terminals, and may not
have even had room in their standardized checkout design for a
separate NFC reader.

Now that the cost has gone down, and most merchants want to support
contactless smartphone payments, and all merchants are being required
to get new terminals anyway to support EMV (chip readers), many more
places support contactless cards, and I would not be surprised if more
banks started issuing them again -- it's practically the only
convenience feature they can offer where Apple and Google don't get to
take a cut. Since the NFC-based "tap" protocol is actually faster to
run than regular EMV, merchants may have some incentive to push the
technology now. I'm not sure whether there's any difference in swipe
fees (which are still called that even when we've stopped actually
swiping or dipping cards).

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | What intellectual phenomenon can be older, or more oft
***@bimajority.org| repeated, than the story of a large research program
Opinions not shared by| that impaled itself upon a false central assumption
my employers. | accepted by all practitioners? - S.J. Gould, 1993
Tony Cooper
2016-09-13 15:02:55 UTC
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Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The US doesn't have "contactless credit cards" or "tap" credit
cards.
Nonsense. VISA even had a big advertising campaign for them about a
decade ago.
I didn't get one, but the gasoline station I usually go to has some
sort of tap feature on the pump if you have the right device that is
used instead of a credit card. They've had that for several years.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
b***@aol.com
2016-09-13 13:09:39 UTC
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Post by Marcin Mały
I've been using two different textbooks with my students of computing science. In both of them, there are chapters about e-commerce, banking and credit cards. They both use the verb "swipe" to describe the activity performed while paying with a credit card. I assume this is the verb which can be used to describe the process with an old-fashioned credit card, a card with a magnetic stripe.
Nowadays, you don't often swipe your card, do you? What is the correct verb to describe the more modern ways of paying? Do you "tap" your card? Is it correct?
No, it's not, "tap" describes the action performed on touchless screens and involves actual contact.
Post by Marcin Mały
Are there any other words to describe this?
Actually, you just "present" or "wave" (though this is not really useful) a contactless payment card.
Post by Marcin Mały
And when your payment is not contactless, what do you do? "Insert" your card into the reader?
Yes.
Post by Marcin Mały
I would really appreciate an opinion from native speakers, thank you.
--
http://www.anglista.edu.pl
b***@aol.com
2016-09-13 13:15:01 UTC
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Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Marcin Mały
I've been using two different textbooks with my students of computing science. In both of them, there are chapters about e-commerce, banking and credit cards. They both use the verb "swipe" to describe the activity performed while paying with a credit card. I assume this is the verb which can be used to describe the process with an old-fashioned credit card, a card with a magnetic stripe.
Nowadays, you don't often swipe your card, do you? What is the correct verb to describe the more modern ways of paying? Do you "tap" your card? Is it correct?
No, it's not, "tap" describes the action performed on touchless screens and involves actual contact.
Correction: I meant "..._touchscreens_...."
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Marcin Mały
Are there any other words to describe this?
Actually, you just "present" or "wave" (though this is not really useful) a contactless payment card.
Post by Marcin Mały
And when your payment is not contactless, what do you do? "Insert" your card into the reader?
Yes.
Post by Marcin Mały
I would really appreciate an opinion from native speakers, thank you.
--
http://www.anglista.edu.pl
Whiskers
2016-09-13 13:39:48 UTC
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Post by Marcin Mały
I've been using two different textbooks with my students of computing
science. In both of them, there are chapters about e-commerce, banking
and credit cards. They both use the verb "swipe" to describe the
activity performed while paying with a credit card. I assume this is
the verb which can be used to describe the process with an
old-fashioned credit card, a card with a magnetic stripe.
That's how I'd normally understand the usage. Although in the UK credit
and debit cards are now all 'chip and PIN' and often 'contactless' too,
our 'loyalty cards' are still often equipped with a magnetic stripe that
has to be 'swiped'; they also tend to have bar-codes or QR codes printed
on them which can be scanned by the optical laser scanner of the shop's
point of sale hardware.
Post by Marcin Mały
Nowadays,
you don't often swipe your card, do you? What is the correct verb to
describe the more modern ways of paying? Do you "tap" your card? Is it
correct? Are there any other words to describe this?
I think 'tap' is appropriate. I've also heard 'wave', and on London
public transport the word 'touch' is used - as in 'Make sure you pay the
right fare by touching in and out on the yellow card readers ...' and
'You only need to touch in on bus and trams.' (sic)
<https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/oyster/using-your-oyster-card>
Post by Marcin Mały
And when your
payment is not contactless, what do you do? "Insert" your card into
the reader? I would really appreciate an opinion from native
speakers, thank you. -- http://www.anglista.edu.pl
'Chip and PIN' cards have to be 'inserted'. 'Contactless' debit and
credit cards (but not London's Oyster cards) also have chip and PIN
built in and sometimes the user is asked to insert the card and enter
the PIN to verify a transaction. Not all chip and PIN points of sale
can handle contactless payments.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
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