Discussion:
There was three kings into the east...
(too old to reply)
Harrison Hill
2018-07-03 15:40:47 UTC
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Americans are often perplexed by us Brits using "The police were" vs
"The police was", so how about:

"There was three kings into the east..."?

I've had this in my vocabulary since I was a teenager - from a Folk
Song - but had no idea until today that it is Burns:

<https://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/robert-burns.html>
Peter T. Daniels
2018-07-03 15:52:30 UTC
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On Tuesday, July 3, 2018 at 11:40:50 AM UTC-4, Harrison Hill wrote:

> Americans are often perplexed by us Brits using "The police were" vs
> "The police was", so how about:

Hunh? What is "the police was ..." supposed to be?

(Thought I'd beat Athel to it.)

The anomaly is using plural verbs with singular team names. "Man U was."
Vs. "the Yankees/Cubs/Dodgers/Giants were" and "the Utah Jazz/Miami Heat
was."

> "There was three kings into the east..."?
>
> I've had this in my vocabulary since I was a teenager - from a Folk
> Song - but had no idea until today that it is Burns:
>
> <https://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/robert-burns.html>
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2018-07-03 15:54:00 UTC
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On 7/3/2018 8:40 AM, Harrison Hill wrote:
> Americans are often perplexed by us Brits using "The police were" vs
> "The police was", so how about:
>
> "There was three kings into the east..."?
>
> I've had this in my vocabulary since I was a teenager - from a Folk
> Song - but had no idea until today that it is Burns:
>
> <https://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/robert-burns.html>
>

FAGGOT
Peter Young
2018-07-03 16:06:42 UTC
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On 3 Jul 2018 Harrison Hill <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Americans are often perplexed by us Brits using "The police were" vs
> "The police was", so how about:

> "There was three kings into the east..."?

> I've had this in my vocabulary since I was a teenager - from a Folk
> Song - but had no idea until today that it is Burns:

> <https://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/robert-burns.html>

Wouldn't do in modern BrE, I think. However, in 19th Century BrE the noun
"police" was singular. "The police is ...". And of course for Shakespeare
"news" was plural, "these news", so these things do change.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
the Omrud
2018-07-03 17:58:32 UTC
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On 03/07/2018 17:06, Peter Young wrote:
> On 3 Jul 2018 Harrison Hill <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Americans are often perplexed by us Brits using "The police were" vs
>> "The police was", so how about:
>
>> "There was three kings into the east..."?
>
>> I've had this in my vocabulary since I was a teenager - from a Folk
>> Song - but had no idea until today that it is Burns:
>
>> <https://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/robert-burns.html>
>
> Wouldn't do in modern BrE, I think. However, in 19th Century BrE the noun
> "police" was singular. "The police is ...". And of course for Shakespeare
> "news" was plural, "these news", so these things do change.

Plural of "new", presumably.

"Police" is still singular in other European languages.

--
David
Peter Young
2018-07-03 20:05:35 UTC
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On 3 Jul 2018 the Omrud <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 03/07/2018 17:06, Peter Young wrote:
>> On 3 Jul 2018 Harrison Hill <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Americans are often perplexed by us Brits using "The police were" vs
>>> "The police was", so how about:
>>
>>> "There was three kings into the east..."?
>>
>>> I've had this in my vocabulary since I was a teenager - from a Folk
>>> Song - but had no idea until today that it is Burns:
>>
>>> <https://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/robert-burns.html>
>>
>> Wouldn't do in modern BrE, I think. However, in 19th Century BrE the noun
>> "police" was singular. "The police is ...". And of course for Shakespeare
>> "news" was plural, "these news", so these things do change.

> Plural of "new", presumably.

I imagine so

> "Police" is still singular in other European languages.

Yet another thing for the "I didn't know that" box.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Jerry Friedman
2018-07-03 22:24:42 UTC
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On 7/3/18 10:06 AM, Peter Young wrote:
> On 3 Jul 2018 Harrison Hill <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Americans are often perplexed by us Brits using "The police were" vs
>> "The police was", so how about:
>
>> "There was three kings into the east..."?
>
>> I've had this in my vocabulary since I was a teenager - from a Folk
>> Song - but had no idea until today that it is Burns:
>
>> <https://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/robert-burns.html>
>
> Wouldn't do in modern BrE, I think.

Normal around here (northern New Mexico) in colloquial AmE. I don't
know how widespread it is.

> However, in 19th Century BrE the noun
> "police" was singular. "The police is ...". And of course for Shakespeare
> "news" was plural, "these news", so these things do change.

Okay, what's going on with "this" and "are"?

"And this England are so young, and they've played thus far with such
kind of optimism, with verve and joy."

Roger Bennett, who has an English accent, in an interview on U.S.
National Public Radio on June 29.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/29/624789715/remaining-teams-move-on-to-knockout-stage-of-world-cup

And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup scores
with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/18/620939115/reaction-to-mexicos-soccer-goal-moved-the-earth-literally

How quaint. But we play soccer here too. Maybe not as well, but we
don't have to pretend we're British. The last time around, an NPR
announcer editorialized against the practice.

https://www.npr.org/2014/07/07/329585162/nil-ism-in-america-when-you-stare-at-the-pitch-the-pitch-stares-back

"Nil-ism", I point out.

--
Jerry Friedman
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-07-03 22:57:05 UTC
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On Tuesday, 3 July 2018 23:25:00 UTC+1, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 7/3/18 10:06 AM, Peter Young wrote:
> > On 3 Jul 2018 Harrison Hill <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Americans are often perplexed by us Brits using "The police were" vs
> >> "The police was", so how about:
> >
> >> "There was three kings into the east..."?
> >
> >> I've had this in my vocabulary since I was a teenager - from a Folk
> >> Song - but had no idea until today that it is Burns:
> >
> >> <https://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/robert-burns.html>
> >
> > Wouldn't do in modern BrE, I think.
>
> Normal around here (northern New Mexico) in colloquial AmE. I don't
> know how widespread it is.
>
> > However, in 19th Century BrE the noun
> > "police" was singular. "The police is ...". And of course for Shakespeare
> > "news" was plural, "these news", so these things do change.
>
> Okay, what's going on with "this" and "are"?
>
> "And this England are so young, and they've played thus far with such
> kind of optimism, with verve and joy."
>
> Roger Bennett, who has an English accent, in an interview on U.S.
> National Public Radio on June 29.
>
> https://www.npr.org/2018/06/29/624789715/remaining-teams-move-on-to-knockout-stage-of-world-cup
>
> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup scores
> with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>
> https://www.npr.org/2018/06/18/620939115/reaction-to-mexicos-soccer-goal-moved-the-earth-literally
>
> How quaint. But we play soccer here too. Maybe not as well, but we
> don't have to pretend we're British. The last time around, an NPR
> announcer editorialized against the practice.
>
> https://www.npr.org/2014/07/07/329585162/nil-ism-in-america-when-you-stare-at-the-pitch-the-pitch-stares-back
>
> "Nil-ism", I point out.
>

It's the terminology of the sport. Proper respect for the game requires you
to say 'nil'. To fail to do so is simply to highlight another example of
isolationism and hubris. How would you react if we started reporting on
American sports using exclusively British terms?
Jerry Friedman
2018-07-04 01:59:29 UTC
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On 7/3/18 4:57 PM, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
> On Tuesday, 3 July 2018 23:25:00 UTC+1, Jerry Friedman wrote:

[soccer]

>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup scores
>> with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>>
>> https://www.npr.org/2018/06/18/620939115/reaction-to-mexicos-soccer-goal-moved-the-earth-literally
>>
>> How quaint. But we play soccer here too. Maybe not as well, but we
>> don't have to pretend we're British. The last time around, an NPR
>> announcer editorialized against the practice.
>>
>> https://www.npr.org/2014/07/07/329585162/nil-ism-in-america-when-you-stare-at-the-pitch-the-pitch-stares-back
>>
>> "Nil-ism", I point out.
>>
>
> It's the terminology of the sport. Proper respect for the game requires you
> to say 'nil'. To fail to do so is simply to highlight another example of
> isolationism and hubris. How would you react if we started reporting on
> American sports using exclusively British terms?

Like saying the Browns lost a game fourteen-nil, or Joe Thomas is a big
bloke at over 44 stone, or a racquetball (so spelled even here) player
hit a good zed-ball? I can't imagine being bothered by that. (Stone
are kind of funny, though.)

--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
2018-07-04 02:04:25 UTC
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On 7/3/18 7:59 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 7/3/18 4:57 PM, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 3 July 2018 23:25:00 UTC+1, Jerry Friedman  wrote:
>
> [soccer]
>
>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup scores
>>> with "nil".  E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>>>
>>> https://www.npr.org/2018/06/18/620939115/reaction-to-mexicos-soccer-goal-moved-the-earth-literally
>>>
>>>
>>> How quaint.  But we play soccer here too.  Maybe not as well, but we
>>> don't have to pretend we're British.  The last time around, an NPR
>>> announcer editorialized against the practice.
>>>
>>> https://www.npr.org/2014/07/07/329585162/nil-ism-in-america-when-you-stare-at-the-pitch-the-pitch-stares-back
>>>
>>>
>>> "Nil-ism", I point out.
>>>
>>
>> It's the terminology of the sport. Proper respect for the game
>> requires you
>> to say 'nil'. To fail to do so is simply to highlight another example of
>> isolationism and hubris. How would you react if we started reporting on
>> American sports using exclusively British terms?
>
> Like saying the Browns lost a game fourteen-nil, or Joe Thomas is a big
> bloke at over 44 stone,

I mean 22 stone.

> or a racquetball (so spelled even here) player
> hit a good zed-ball?  I can't imagine being bothered by that.  (Stone
> are kind of funny, though.)

--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
2018-07-04 03:24:45 UTC
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On 7/3/18 7:59 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 7/3/18 4:57 PM, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 3 July 2018 23:25:00 UTC+1, Jerry Friedman  wrote:
>
> [soccer]
>
>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup scores
>>> with "nil".  E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>>>
>>> https://www.npr.org/2018/06/18/620939115/reaction-to-mexicos-soccer-goal-moved-the-earth-literally
>>>
>>>
>>> How quaint.  But we play soccer here too.  Maybe not as well, but we
>>> don't have to pretend we're British.  The last time around, an NPR
>>> announcer editorialized against the practice.
>>>
>>> https://www.npr.org/2014/07/07/329585162/nil-ism-in-america-when-you-stare-at-the-pitch-the-pitch-stares-back
>>>
>>>
>>> "Nil-ism", I point out.
>>>
>>
>> It's the terminology of the sport. Proper respect for the game
>> requires you
>> to say 'nil'. To fail to do so is simply to highlight another example of
>> isolationism and hubris. How would you react if we started reporting on
>> American sports using exclusively British terms?
>
> Like saying the Browns lost a game fourteen-nil

[...]

Never mind. I just didn't get the joke.


--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2018-07-04 04:06:45 UTC
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On Tuesday, July 3, 2018 at 6:25:00 PM UTC-4, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On 7/3/18 10:06 AM, Peter Young wrote:
> > On 3 Jul 2018 Harrison Hill <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Americans are often perplexed by us Brits using "The police were" vs
> >> "The police was", so how about:
> >
> >> "There was three kings into the east..."?
> >
> >> I've had this in my vocabulary since I was a teenager - from a Folk
> >> Song - but had no idea until today that it is Burns:
> >
> >> <https://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/robert-burns.html>
> >
> > Wouldn't do in modern BrE, I think.
>
> Normal around here (northern New Mexico) in colloquial AmE. I don't
> know how widespread it is.
>
> > However, in 19th Century BrE the noun
> > "police" was singular. "The police is ...". And of course for Shakespeare
> > "news" was plural, "these news", so these things do change.
>
> Okay, what's going on with "this" and "are"?
>
> "And this England are so young, and they've played thus far with such
> kind of optimism, with verve and joy."
>
> Roger Bennett, who has an English accent, in an interview on U.S.
> National Public Radio on June 29.

He's been checking in regularly with Brian Lehrer on WNYC. Today he
revealed that he is now a US citizen, but he still did refer to the
England upset in the first person plural.

> https://www.npr.org/2018/06/29/624789715/remaining-teams-move-on-to-knockout-stage-of-world-cup
>
> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup scores
> with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."

We understand it to be a technical term in soccer. Which Mr. Bennett
pointed out the other day was the perfectly ordinary British term for
the sport (Association Football, contracted at Oxford, just like "rugger"
for the rougher game) until ca. 1994 when they suddenly noticed that that
was what the Americans were calling it.

> https://www.npr.org/2018/06/18/620939115/reaction-to-mexicos-soccer-goal-moved-the-earth-literally
>
> How quaint. But we play soccer here too. Maybe not as well, but we
> don't have to pretend we're British. The last time around, an NPR
> announcer editorialized against the practice.
>
> https://www.npr.org/2014/07/07/329585162/nil-ism-in-america-when-you-stare-at-the-pitch-the-pitch-stares-back
>
> "Nil-ism", I point out.
Peter Moylan
2018-07-04 05:53:20 UTC
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On 04/07/18 08:24, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> Okay, what's going on with "this" and "are"?
>
> "And this England are so young, and they've played thus far with
> such kind of optimism, with verve and joy."
>
> Roger Bennett, who has an English accent, in an interview on U.S.
> National Public Radio on June 29.

He's using "England" as an abbreviation for "English team".

> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."

So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
Thanks.

A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
"one-love", I suppose.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Mark Brader
2018-07-04 08:46:57 UTC
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Jerry Friedman:
> > And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
> > scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."

Peter Moylan:
> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.

It wasn't one, really.

> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
> "one-love", I suppose.

Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
--
Mark Brader | "Red lights are not my concern.
Toronto | I am a driver, not a policeman."
***@vex.net | --statement made after collision, 1853

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-07-04 09:55:13 UTC
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On Wednesday, 4 July 2018 09:47:04 UTC+1, Mark Brader wrote:
> Jerry Friedman:
> > > And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
> > > scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>
> Peter Moylan:
> > So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
>
> It wasn't one, really.
>
> > A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
> > "one-love", I suppose.
>
> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
> --

The master of (proper) football commentary would never countenance
such awful prolixity ....

https://youtu.be/rAM3UpzzaWY?t=1m20s

... nor should anyone else!
Jerry Friedman
2018-07-04 13:21:34 UTC
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On 7/4/18 2:46 AM, Mark Brader wrote:
> Jerry Friedman:
>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>
> Peter Moylan:
>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
>
> It wasn't one, really.
>
>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
>> "one-love", I suppose.
>
> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".

Down here I think you'd also hear "one-zero" in the media. As kids we
often said "one-zip".

--
Jerry Friedman
John Varela
2018-07-04 22:52:29 UTC
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On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

> Jerry Friedman:
> > > And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
> > > scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>
> Peter Moylan:
> > So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
>
> It wasn't one, really.
>
> > A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
> > "one-love", I suppose.
>
> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".

I would be most likely to say "one-oh".

--
John Varela
RH Draney
2018-07-05 03:44:11 UTC
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On 7/4/2018 3:52 PM, John Varela wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
>> Jerry Friedman:
>>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
>>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>>
>> Peter Moylan:
>>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
>>
>> It wasn't one, really.
>>
>>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
>>> "one-love", I suppose.
>>
>> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
>> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
>
> I would be most likely to say "one-oh".

Too easy to mistake that for "one-all", the usual way of indicating a
tied score....r
John Varela
2018-07-07 02:08:48 UTC
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On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 03:44:11 UTC, RH Draney <***@cox.net> wrote:

> On 7/4/2018 3:52 PM, John Varela wrote:
> > On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> >
> >> Jerry Friedman:
> >>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
> >>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
> >>
> >> Peter Moylan:
> >>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
> >>
> >> It wasn't one, really.
> >>
> >>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
> >>> "one-love", I suppose.
> >>
> >> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
> >> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
> >
> > I would be most likely to say "one-oh".
>
> Too easy to mistake that for "one-all", the usual way of indicating a
> tied score....r

"Oh" doesn't sound much like "all" the way I say it, nor do they
sound alike when spoken by people I know.

--
John Varela
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-07-07 11:31:58 UTC
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On Saturday, 7 July 2018 03:08:51 UTC+1, John Varela wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 03:44:11 UTC, RH Draney <***@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > On 7/4/2018 3:52 PM, John Varela wrote:
> > > On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> > >
> > >> Jerry Friedman:
> > >>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
> > >>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
> > >>
> > >> Peter Moylan:
> > >>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
> > >>
> > >> It wasn't one, really.
> > >>
> > >>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
> > >>> "one-love", I suppose.
> > >>
> > >> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
> > >> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
> > >
> > > I would be most likely to say "one-oh".
> >
> > Too easy to mistake that for "one-all", the usual way of indicating a
> > tied score....r
>
> "Oh" doesn't sound much like "all" the way I say it, nor do they
> sound alike when spoken by people I know.
>
Maybe not but how many times do people append 'green grow
the rushes-oh' to your pronouncements?

It's nil in football, and nought in cricket, and blasphemy to say otherwise!
Peter Moylan
2018-07-07 12:18:37 UTC
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On 07/07/18 21:31, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:

> It's nil in football, and nought in cricket, and blasphemy to say
> otherwise!

I've never witnessed that third sport.

In my experience: love in tennis, nil in soccer, and it simply can't
happen in any other sport unless the teams are seriously mismatched.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-07-07 12:50:15 UTC
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On 2018-07-07 12:18:37 +0000, Peter Moylan said:

> On 07/07/18 21:31, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
>
>> It's nil in football, and nought in cricket, and blasphemy to say
>> otherwise!
>
> I've never witnessed that third sport.
>
> In my experience: love in tennis, nil in soccer, and it simply can't
> happen in any other sport unless the teams are seriously mismatched.

Yes. Even in rugby and basketball the losing team gets more than zero.
However, the only time I played squash I failed to win a single point.
I decided that squash wasn't really my thing.


--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2018-07-07 13:33:52 UTC
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On Saturday, July 7, 2018 at 8:18:43 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 07/07/18 21:31, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
>
> > It's nil in football, and nought in cricket, and blasphemy to say
> > otherwise!
>
> I've never witnessed that third sport.
>
> In my experience: love in tennis, nil in soccer, and it simply can't
> happen in any other sport unless the teams are seriously mismatched.

Shutouts are common in baseball and not rare in hockey.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-07-07 13:46:47 UTC
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On Saturday, 7 July 2018 14:33:55 UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Saturday, July 7, 2018 at 8:18:43 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> > On 07/07/18 21:31, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
> >
> > > It's nil in football, and nought in cricket, and blasphemy to say
> > > otherwise!
> >
> > I've never witnessed that third sport.
> >
> > In my experience: love in tennis, nil in soccer, and it simply can't
> > happen in any other sport unless the teams are seriously mismatched.
>
> Shutouts are common in baseball and not rare in hockey.

There were 11 in the NFL this past season including a 0-6 result
so no mismatch there.
Mark Brader
2018-07-07 19:27:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Peter Moylan:
> In my experience: love in tennis, nil in soccer, and it simply can't
> happen in any other sport unless the teams are seriously mismatched.

Shutouts are reasonably common both in hockey (called "ice hockey"
in some countries) and not exactly rare in baseball. The 2016 World
Series, which ran to the maximum 7 games, included 6-0 and 1-0 wins
for Cleveland, who lost the series.

Anyway, scores *during* a game can include zeroes in any sport where
they start at 0-0 and count points upward. In the Argos' first game this
season, they took a 1-0 lead early in the first quarter but lost 27-19.
--
Mark Brader | "What a marvelous mixture of proliferating inconvenience
Toronto | and downright helpfulness!"
***@vex.net | --Steve Summit

My text in this article is in the public domain.
RH Draney
2018-07-07 22:40:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/7/2018 12:27 PM, Mark Brader wrote:
> Peter Moylan:
>> In my experience: love in tennis, nil in soccer, and it simply can't
>> happen in any other sport unless the teams are seriously mismatched.
>
> Shutouts are reasonably common both in hockey (called "ice hockey"
> in some countries) and not exactly rare in baseball. The 2016 World
> Series, which ran to the maximum 7 games, included 6-0 and 1-0 wins
> for Cleveland, who lost the series.
>
> Anyway, scores *during* a game can include zeroes in any sport where
> they start at 0-0 and count points upward. In the Argos' first game this
> season, they took a 1-0 lead early in the first quarter but lost 27-19.

In darts, though, a zero can only occur at the end of a match....r
bill van
2018-07-07 22:58:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-07-07 22:40:37 +0000, RH Draney said:

> On 7/7/2018 12:27 PM, Mark Brader wrote:
>> Peter Moylan:
>>> In my experience: love in tennis, nil in soccer, and it simply can't
>>> happen in any other sport unless the teams are seriously mismatched.
>>
>> Shutouts are reasonably common both in hockey (called "ice hockey"
>> in some countries) and not exactly rare in baseball. The 2016 World
>> Series, which ran to the maximum 7 games, included 6-0 and 1-0 wins
>> for Cleveland, who lost the series.
>>
>> Anyway, scores *during* a game can include zeroes in any sport where
>> they start at 0-0 and count points upward. In the Argos' first game this
>> season, they took a 1-0 lead early in the first quarter but lost 27-19.
>
> In darts, though, a zero can only occur at the end of a match....r

Not only that, it's the winning score.
John Varela
2018-07-08 00:03:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sat, 7 Jul 2018 11:31:58 UTC, Madrigal Gurneyhalt
<***@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, 7 July 2018 03:08:51 UTC+1, John Varela wrote:
> > On Thu, 5 Jul 2018 03:44:11 UTC, RH Draney <***@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> > > On 7/4/2018 3:52 PM, John Varela wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Jerry Friedman:
> > > >>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
> > > >>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
> > > >>
> > > >> Peter Moylan:
> > > >>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
> > > >>
> > > >> It wasn't one, really.
> > > >>
> > > >>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
> > > >>> "one-love", I suppose.
> > > >>
> > > >> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
> > > >> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
> > > >
> > > > I would be most likely to say "one-oh".
> > >
> > > Too easy to mistake that for "one-all", the usual way of indicating a
> > > tied score....r
> >
> > "Oh" doesn't sound much like "all" the way I say it, nor do they
> > sound alike when spoken by people I know.
> >
> Maybe not but how many times do people append 'green grow
> the rushes-oh' to your pronouncements?

Never once. And I haven't heard that song since I was in college.

> It's nil in football, and nought in cricket, and blasphemy to say otherwise!

I can't imagine wanting to learn a soccer or cricket score, so you
can announce the scores any way you want and it won't bother me.

That's the three-oh mark for tonight.

--
John Varela
Ken Blake
2018-07-08 14:47:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 4 Jul 2018 22:52:29 GMT, "John Varela" <***@verizon.net>
wrote:

>On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
>> Jerry Friedman:
>> > > And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
>> > > scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>>
>> Peter Moylan:
>> > So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
>>
>> It wasn't one, really.
>>
>> > A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
>> > "one-love", I suppose.
>>
>> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
>> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
>
>I would be most likely to say "one-oh".


I always try to pronounce the numeral 0 as "zero." To me "oh" is a
letter, not a number.
bill van
2018-07-08 18:35:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-07-08 14:47:56 +0000, Ken Blake said:

> On 4 Jul 2018 22:52:29 GMT, "John Varela" <***@verizon.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>>
>>> Jerry Friedman:
>>>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
>>>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>>>
>>> Peter Moylan:
>>>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
>>>
>>> It wasn't one, really.
>>>
>>>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
>>>> "one-love", I suppose.
>>>
>>> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
>>> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
>>
>> I would be most likely to say "one-oh".
>
>
> I always try to pronounce the numeral 0 as "zero." To me "oh" is a
> letter, not a number.

So do I, usually. It avoids confusion between the number and the
letter. But there are
exceptions. The main telephone area code for Vancouver is 604, and
absolutely everyone
says it as "six-oh-four".

bill
Ken Blake
2018-07-08 19:00:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 11:35:00 -0700, bill van <***@shaw.ca> wrote:

>On 2018-07-08 14:47:56 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>
>> On 4 Jul 2018 22:52:29 GMT, "John Varela" <***@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jerry Friedman:
>>>>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
>>>>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>>>>
>>>> Peter Moylan:
>>>>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
>>>>
>>>> It wasn't one, really.
>>>>
>>>>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
>>>>> "one-love", I suppose.
>>>>
>>>> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
>>>> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
>>>
>>> I would be most likely to say "one-oh".
>>
>>
>> I always try to pronounce the numeral 0 as "zero." To me "oh" is a
>> letter, not a number.
>
>So do I, usually. It avoids confusion between the number and the
>letter.


Yes, especially since there are places where it could be either a
number or a letter.


>But there are
>exceptions. The main telephone area code for Vancouver is 604, and
>absolutely everyone
>says it as "six-oh-four".


I guess I'm not included in that "absolutely everyone" since I've
never had occasion to say it. But if I did, I would say
"six-zero-four."

I live in Tucson, where the area code is 520. Probably the great
majority of Tucsonans say "five-two-oh," but I don't.
David Kleinecke
2018-07-08 20:18:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 12:00:18 PM UTC-7, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 11:35:00 -0700, bill van <***@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
> >On 2018-07-08 14:47:56 +0000, Ken Blake said:
> >
> >> On 4 Jul 2018 22:52:29 GMT, "John Varela" <***@verizon.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Jerry Friedman:
> >>>>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
> >>>>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
> >>>>
> >>>> Peter Moylan:
> >>>>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
> >>>>
> >>>> It wasn't one, really.
> >>>>
> >>>>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
> >>>>> "one-love", I suppose.
> >>>>
> >>>> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
> >>>> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
> >>>
> >>> I would be most likely to say "one-oh".
> >>
> >>
> >> I always try to pronounce the numeral 0 as "zero." To me "oh" is a
> >> letter, not a number.
> >
> >So do I, usually. It avoids confusion between the number and the
> >letter.
>
>
> Yes, especially since there are places where it could be either a
> number or a letter.
>
>
> >But there are
> >exceptions. The main telephone area code for Vancouver is 604, and
> >absolutely everyone
> >says it as "six-oh-four".
>
>
> I guess I'm not included in that "absolutely everyone" since I've
> never had occasion to say it. But if I did, I would say
> "six-zero-four."
>
> I live in Tucson, where the area code is 520. Probably the great
> majority of Tucsonans say "five-two-oh," but I don't.

I'm in 95540 and I say nine-fifty-five-forty. I have no
idea what the commonest form is. We don\t talk about
zip codes much.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-07-09 04:09:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 4:18:31 PM UTC-4, David Kleinecke wrote:
> On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 12:00:18 PM UTC-7, Ken Blake wrote:
> > On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 11:35:00 -0700, bill van <***@shaw.ca> wrote:
> >
> > >On 2018-07-08 14:47:56 +0000, Ken Blake said:
> > >
> > >> On 4 Jul 2018 22:52:29 GMT, "John Varela" <***@verizon.net>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Jerry Friedman:
> > >>>>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
> > >>>>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Peter Moylan:
> > >>>>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> It wasn't one, really.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
> > >>>>> "one-love", I suppose.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
> > >>>> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
> > >>>
> > >>> I would be most likely to say "one-oh".
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I always try to pronounce the numeral 0 as "zero." To me "oh" is a
> > >> letter, not a number.
> > >
> > >So do I, usually. It avoids confusion between the number and the
> > >letter.
> >
> >
> > Yes, especially since there are places where it could be either a
> > number or a letter.
> >
> >
> > >But there are
> > >exceptions. The main telephone area code for Vancouver is 604, and
> > >absolutely everyone
> > >says it as "six-oh-four".
> >
> >
> > I guess I'm not included in that "absolutely everyone" since I've
> > never had occasion to say it. But if I did, I would say
> > "six-zero-four."
> >
> > I live in Tucson, where the area code is 520. Probably the great
> > majority of Tucsonans say "five-two-oh," but I don't.
>
> I'm in 95540 and I say nine-fifty-five-forty. I have no

That would give anyone immense pause.

> idea what the commonest form is. We don\t talk about
> zip codes much.

Normal people say the digits. There's a well-known TV show, Beverly Hills
Nine Oh Two One Oh. Its fans referred to it as Nine Oh Two One Oh.

The first three digits are your region, the last two are your locality,
assigned roughly alphabetically (unless they were taken over from existing
city zones, as in NY and Chi).
Paul Wolff
2018-07-08 22:11:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 8 Jul 2018, Ken Blake <***@invalid.news.com> posted:
>On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 11:35:00 -0700, bill van <***@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>On 2018-07-08 14:47:56 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>>> On 4 Jul 2018 22:52:29 GMT, "John Varela" <***@verizon.net>
>>>> On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>>>>> Jerry Friedman:

>>>>>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
>>>>>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter Moylan:
>>>>>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
>>>>>
>>>>> It wasn't one, really.
>>>>>
>>>>>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
>>>>>> "one-love", I suppose.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
>>>>> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
>>>>
>>>> I would be most likely to say "one-oh".
>>>
>>> I always try to pronounce the numeral 0 as "zero." To me "oh" is a
>>> letter, not a number.
>>
>>So do I, usually. It avoids confusion between the number and the
>>letter.
>
>Yes, especially since there are places where it could be either a
>number or a letter.
>
>>But there are
>>exceptions. The main telephone area code for Vancouver is 604, and
>>absolutely everyone
>>says it as "six-oh-four".
>
>I guess I'm not included in that "absolutely everyone" since I've
>never had occasion to say it. But if I did, I would say
>"six-zero-four."
>
>I live in Tucson, where the area code is 520. Probably the great
>majority of Tucsonans say "five-two-oh," but I don't.

I could be wrong (as if!) but hereabouts road numbers with four digits
(that's excluding the initial letter, M, A or B) are said digit by
digit, with "oh" for zero. So the A4074 is "A (voiced) four oh seven
four". With one or two digits, the number is given as a normal number -
the A34 is the "A (voiced) thirty-four". With three digit numbers, I
haven't yet determined a speech pattern (the A four-twenty, the A three
four three, etc).

My phone, the one with a built-in computer complete with web browser,
lets me get driving directions from a voce supplied by Google. It's
inclined to state road numbers by full number where I'd expect a
breakdown - so, in the above three-digit examples, "A four hundred and
twenty" and "A three hundred and forty three".

But I haven't got lab notebooks to prove it. So far, it's an impression
only. Am I alone in this thought? If it's true, maybe it reflects AmE
practice.
--
Paul
Tony Cooper
2018-07-08 23:50:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 23:11:16 +0100, Paul Wolff
<***@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sun, 8 Jul 2018, Ken Blake <***@invalid.news.com> posted:
>>On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 11:35:00 -0700, bill van <***@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>On 2018-07-08 14:47:56 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>>>> On 4 Jul 2018 22:52:29 GMT, "John Varela" <***@verizon.net>
>>>>> On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>>>>>> Jerry Friedman:
>
>>>>>>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
>>>>>>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Moylan:
>>>>>>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It wasn't one, really.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
>>>>>>> "one-love", I suppose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
>>>>>> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
>>>>>
>>>>> I would be most likely to say "one-oh".
>>>>
>>>> I always try to pronounce the numeral 0 as "zero." To me "oh" is a
>>>> letter, not a number.
>>>
>>>So do I, usually. It avoids confusion between the number and the
>>>letter.
>>
>>Yes, especially since there are places where it could be either a
>>number or a letter.
>>
>>>But there are
>>>exceptions. The main telephone area code for Vancouver is 604, and
>>>absolutely everyone
>>>says it as "six-oh-four".
>>
>>I guess I'm not included in that "absolutely everyone" since I've
>>never had occasion to say it. But if I did, I would say
>>"six-zero-four."
>>
>>I live in Tucson, where the area code is 520. Probably the great
>>majority of Tucsonans say "five-two-oh," but I don't.
>
>I could be wrong (as if!) but hereabouts road numbers with four digits
>(that's excluding the initial letter, M, A or B) are said digit by
>digit, with "oh" for zero. So the A4074 is "A (voiced) four oh seven
>four". With one or two digits, the number is given as a normal number -
>the A34 is the "A (voiced) thirty-four". With three digit numbers, I
>haven't yet determined a speech pattern (the A four-twenty, the A three
>four three, etc).


>My phone, the one with a built-in computer complete with web browser,
>lets me get driving directions from a voce supplied by Google. It's
>inclined to state road numbers by full number where I'd expect a
>breakdown - so, in the above three-digit examples, "A four hundred and
>twenty" and "A three hundred and forty three".
>
>But I haven't got lab notebooks to prove it. So far, it's an impression
>only. Am I alone in this thought? If it's true, maybe it reflects AmE
>practice.

There is an East/West tollway in this area that is SR 408. ("SR"
means "state road") The radio traffic reports inform about conditions
on "the four oh eight".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
RH Draney
2018-07-09 04:46:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/8/2018 4:50 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 23:11:16 +0100, Paul Wolff
> <***@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 8 Jul 2018, Ken Blake <***@invalid.news.com> posted:
>>>
>>> I live in Tucson, where the area code is 520. Probably the great
>>> majority of Tucsonans say "five-two-oh," but I don't.
>>
>> I could be wrong (as if!) but hereabouts road numbers with four digits
>> (that's excluding the initial letter, M, A or B) are said digit by
>> digit, with "oh" for zero. So the A4074 is "A (voiced) four oh seven
>> four". With one or two digits, the number is given as a normal number -
>> the A34 is the "A (voiced) thirty-four". With three digit numbers, I
>> haven't yet determined a speech pattern (the A four-twenty, the A three
>> four three, etc).
>
>
>> My phone, the one with a built-in computer complete with web browser,
>> lets me get driving directions from a voce supplied by Google. It's
>> inclined to state road numbers by full number where I'd expect a
>> breakdown - so, in the above three-digit examples, "A four hundred and
>> twenty" and "A three hundred and forty three".
>>
>> But I haven't got lab notebooks to prove it. So far, it's an impression
>> only. Am I alone in this thought? If it's true, maybe it reflects AmE
>> practice.
>
> There is an East/West tollway in this area that is SR 408. ("SR"
> means "state road") The radio traffic reports inform about conditions
> on "the four oh eight".

The usual US practice is to break numbers into pairs of digits and state
each pair as if it were a separate number...if an odd number of digits,
the first stands alone and the remainder are paired...thus, 123 is
"one-twenty-three", never "twelve-three" and only under special
circumstances "one-two-three"...(911 would be one of those special
cases: before "nine-eleven" became a reference to the terrorist attacks
on the WTC, the emergency telephone number was stated this way, but now
it's always "nine-one-one")....

I find Ken Blake's assertion that the Tucson area code of 520 is
pronounced "five-two-oh", because up here in Phoenix we'd be more likely
to say "five-twenty"...certainly my own area code of 480 is always
"four-eighty"....r
Mark Brader
2018-07-09 06:46:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Tony Cooper:
> > There is an East/West tollway in this area that is SR 408. ("SR"
> > means "state road") The radio traffic reports inform about conditions
> > on "the four oh eight".

R.H. Draney:
> The usual US practice is to break numbers into pairs of digits and state
> each pair as if it were a separate number...if an odd number of digits,
> the first stands alone and the remainder are paired...

Certainly[1], and the same here.

And the important point that R.H. omitted: if a digit-pair consists of
a zero and then a non-zero digit, it's pronounced as "oh" and the second
digit, as in Tony's example.

[1] Provided that we're talking about a number of up to 4 digits that does
not simply represent a measurement or a count, such as a monetary amount.
--
Mark Brader "Unfortunately for the grass, the cold water is
Toronto moving at over half the speed of sound."
***@vex.net --Randall Munroe

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-07-09 11:35:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 12:47:30 AM UTC-4, RH Draney wrote:
> On 7/8/2018 4:50 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
> > On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 23:11:16 +0100, Paul Wolff
> > <***@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 8 Jul 2018, Ken Blake <***@invalid.news.com> posted:

> >>> I live in Tucson, where the area code is 520. Probably the great
> >>> majority of Tucsonans say "five-two-oh," but I don't.
> >> I could be wrong (as if!) but hereabouts road numbers with four digits
> >> (that's excluding the initial letter, M, A or B) are said digit by
> >> digit, with "oh" for zero. So the A4074 is "A (voiced) four oh seven
> >> four". With one or two digits, the number is given as a normal number -
> >> the A34 is the "A (voiced) thirty-four". With three digit numbers, I
> >> haven't yet determined a speech pattern (the A four-twenty, the A three
> >> four three, etc).
> >> My phone, the one with a built-in computer complete with web browser,
> >> lets me get driving directions from a voce supplied by Google. It's
> >> inclined to state road numbers by full number where I'd expect a
> >> breakdown - so, in the above three-digit examples, "A four hundred and
> >> twenty" and "A three hundred and forty three".
> >>
> >> But I haven't got lab notebooks to prove it. So far, it's an impression
> >> only. Am I alone in this thought? If it's true, maybe it reflects AmE
> >> practice.
> > There is an East/West tollway in this area that is SR 408. ("SR"
> > means "state road") The radio traffic reports inform about conditions
> > on "the four oh eight".
>
> The usual US practice is to break numbers into pairs of digits and state
> each pair as if it were a separate number...if an odd number of digits,
> the first stands alone and the remainder are paired...thus, 123 is
> "one-twenty-three", never "twelve-three" and only under special
> circumstances "one-two-three"...(911 would be one of those special
> cases: before "nine-eleven" became a reference to the terrorist attacks
> on the WTC, the emergency telephone number was stated this way,

Not around here. "Four one one" for Information existed in the 1950s, and
they'd reserved all the -11 "area codes" for that sort of thing. 611 was
repairs, and after 911, we got 311 for city services and 511 for transit
and travel information.

> but now
> it's always "nine-one-one")....
>
> I find Ken Blake's assertion that the Tucson area code of 520 is
> pronounced "five-two-oh", because up here in Phoenix we'd be more likely
> to say "five-twenty"...certainly my own area code of 480 is always
> "four-eighty"....r

Bizarre.

Has anyone gotten "four-twenty" yet?
RH Draney
2018-07-09 12:22:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/9/2018 4:35 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 12:47:30 AM UTC-4, RH Draney wrote:
>>
>> I find Ken Blake's assertion that the Tucson area code of 520 is
>> pronounced "five-two-oh", because up here in Phoenix we'd be more likely
>> to say "five-twenty"...certainly my own area code of 480 is always
>> "four-eighty"....r
>
> Bizarre.
>
> Has anyone gotten "four-twenty" yet?

My sources say "unassigned", but as an international "country code" it
belongs to the Czech Republic....

Incidentally, the rule about breaking long strings into pairs of digits
can also be modified by those who assign the numbers, which is why it's
so annoying to hear someone from another country ("where they do things
funny") try to read a US telephone number...here, the breakdown is
<three-digit-area-code>, <three-digit-exchange>, <four-digit-number>,
which does not break down the same way as a single string of ten digits....

American Express (if I'm permitted to reveal what may once have been a
trade secret) displays its 15-digit account number as 4+6+5, forcing the
pairing of digits to break in a couple of odd places...in fact, the
embedded "geo-district" code (telling AmEx people what country you're
from) consists of the last two digits of the first group and the first
digit of the second....

Changing the sub-subject slightly, has anyone ever had to take down a
long "confirmation number" from an automated voice on the telephone,
where the string contains a number of consecutive zeroes?...after
completing your transaction, you're asked to write down for your records
something like "eight-oh-seven-oh-nine-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh-..." (my god,
is she all right?) "...-oh-oh-one-three-six", with absolutely no rhythm,
accent, or structure, and presumably to repeat it back the same way if
you have to call customer service later for any reason (miss out just
one "oh" and they'll tell you the confirmation number is invalid)....r
Ken Blake
2018-07-09 16:28:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 21:46:45 -0700, RH Draney <***@cox.net> wrote:

>On 7/8/2018 4:50 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 23:11:16 +0100, Paul Wolff
>> <***@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 8 Jul 2018, Ken Blake <***@invalid.news.com> posted:
>>>>
>>>> I live in Tucson, where the area code is 520. Probably the great
>>>> majority of Tucsonans say "five-two-oh," but I don't.
>>>
>>> I could be wrong (as if!) but hereabouts road numbers with four digits
>>> (that's excluding the initial letter, M, A or B) are said digit by
>>> digit, with "oh" for zero. So the A4074 is "A (voiced) four oh seven
>>> four". With one or two digits, the number is given as a normal number -
>>> the A34 is the "A (voiced) thirty-four". With three digit numbers, I
>>> haven't yet determined a speech pattern (the A four-twenty, the A three
>>> four three, etc).
>>
>>
>>> My phone, the one with a built-in computer complete with web browser,
>>> lets me get driving directions from a voce supplied by Google. It's
>>> inclined to state road numbers by full number where I'd expect a
>>> breakdown - so, in the above three-digit examples, "A four hundred and
>>> twenty" and "A three hundred and forty three".
>>>
>>> But I haven't got lab notebooks to prove it. So far, it's an impression
>>> only. Am I alone in this thought? If it's true, maybe it reflects AmE
>>> practice.
>>
>> There is an East/West tollway in this area that is SR 408. ("SR"
>> means "state road") The radio traffic reports inform about conditions
>> on "the four oh eight".
>
>The usual US practice is to break numbers into pairs of digits and state
>each pair as if it were a separate number...if an odd number of digits,
>the first stands alone and the remainder are paired...thus, 123 is
>"one-twenty-three", never "twelve-three" and only under special
>circumstances "one-two-three"...(911 would be one of those special
>cases: before "nine-eleven" became a reference to the terrorist attacks
>on the WTC, the emergency telephone number was stated this way, but now
>it's always "nine-one-one")....
>
>I find Ken Blake's assertion that the Tucson area code of 520 is
>pronounced "five-two-oh", because up here in Phoenix we'd be more likely
>to say "five-twenty"...certainly my own area code of 480 is always
>"four-eighty"....r



Interesting. I can't remember ever hearing anyone say "five-twenty" or
"four-eighty."
Lewis
2018-07-09 18:28:52 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <***@news3.newsguy.com> RH Draney <***@cox.net> wrote:
> On 7/8/2018 4:50 PM, Tony Cooper wrote:
>> On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 23:11:16 +0100, Paul Wolff
>> <***@thiswontwork.wolff.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 8 Jul 2018, Ken Blake <***@invalid.news.com> posted:
>>>>
>>>> I live in Tucson, where the area code is 520. Probably the great
>>>> majority of Tucsonans say "five-two-oh," but I don't.
>>>
>>> I could be wrong (as if!) but hereabouts road numbers with four digits
>>> (that's excluding the initial letter, M, A or B) are said digit by
>>> digit, with "oh" for zero. So the A4074 is "A (voiced) four oh seven
>>> four". With one or two digits, the number is given as a normal number -
>>> the A34 is the "A (voiced) thirty-four". With three digit numbers, I
>>> haven't yet determined a speech pattern (the A four-twenty, the A three
>>> four three, etc).
>>
>>
>>> My phone, the one with a built-in computer complete with web browser,
>>> lets me get driving directions from a voce supplied by Google. It's
>>> inclined to state road numbers by full number where I'd expect a
>>> breakdown - so, in the above three-digit examples, "A four hundred and
>>> twenty" and "A three hundred and forty three".
>>>
>>> But I haven't got lab notebooks to prove it. So far, it's an impression
>>> only. Am I alone in this thought? If it's true, maybe it reflects AmE
>>> practice.
>>
>> There is an East/West tollway in this area that is SR 408. ("SR"
>> means "state road") The radio traffic reports inform about conditions
>> on "the four oh eight".

> The usual US practice is to break numbers into pairs of digits and state
> each pair as if it were a separate number...if an odd number of digits,
> the first stands alone and the remainder are paired...thus, 123 is
> "one-twenty-three", never "twelve-three" and only under special
> circumstances "one-two-three"

Never "twelve-three" is correct, but as for pairing the digits? No, I
don't agree. There is no universal pattern and in my experience
"one twenty-three" is about as common as "one two three".

The exception is when you have a highway that is 2 digits and then an
auxiliary highway that adds a prefix digit. The Eighty in California has
the eight-eighty, for example. or I-70 in Colordao has "two seventy" as
its auxiliary.

If the middle digit is a zero, then three numbers are always said and
the middle on is nearly always "oh" (The four oh five, the one oh one,
etc.).

I always pair 4 digit numbers in addresses (ten twenty one for 1021, for
example), but I hear plenty of people who say "one oh two one" or
sometimes even "one oh twenty-one"


> ...(911 would be one of those special cases: before "nine-eleven"
> became a reference to the terrorist attacks on the WTC, the emergency
> telephone number was stated this way, but now it's always
> "nine-one-one")....

Not in my experience, no, it has been "nine one one" since I first
encountered it in 1975.

> I find Ken Blake's assertion that the Tucson area code of 520 is
> pronounced "five-two-oh", because up here in Phoenix we'd be more likely
> to say "five-twenty"...certainly my own area code of 480 is always
> "four-eighty"....r

Seven two oh is more common that seven twenty here, but most people
simply write a number as 3/555-1212 or 7/555-1212 to distinguish the
two overlay area codes. However, when I lived in California the area
code was five one oh, and I never heard anyone say five ten and the
area code for Santa Jose/Santa Cruz was universally four oh eight.

--
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFU>
Lewis
2018-07-09 18:35:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
In message <***@Snow.local> Lewis <***@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> Seven two oh is more common that seven twenty here,

I have no idea where my brain went on its little vacation when I was
typing that; Aruba, perhaps. seven-two-oh is *MUCH* more common than
seven-twenty. So much so that I'm not sure I've heard seven-twenty.

--
Are you a lucky little lady in the city of light Or just another lost
angel?
Jerry Friedman
2018-07-09 22:55:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 1:14:35 PM UTC-6, Lewis wrote:
...

> I always pair 4 digit numbers in addresses (ten twenty one for 1021, for
> example), but I hear plenty of people who say "one oh two one" or
> sometimes even "one oh twenty-one"
...

If you heard me, you'd hear "one zero two one".

--
Jerry Friedman
John Varela
2018-07-08 23:26:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 18:35:00 UTC, bill van <***@shaw.ca> wrote:

> On 2018-07-08 14:47:56 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>
> > On 4 Jul 2018 22:52:29 GMT, "John Varela" <***@verizon.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> >>
> >>> Jerry Friedman:
> >>>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
> >>>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
> >>>
> >>> Peter Moylan:
> >>>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
> >>>
> >>> It wasn't one, really.
> >>>
> >>>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
> >>>> "one-love", I suppose.
> >>>
> >>> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
> >>> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
> >>
> >> I would be most likely to say "one-oh".
> >
> >
> > I always try to pronounce the numeral 0 as "zero." To me "oh" is a
> > letter, not a number.
>
> So do I, usually. It avoids confusion between the number and the
> letter. But there are
> exceptions. The main telephone area code for Vancouver is 604, and
> absolutely everyone
> says it as "six-oh-four".

The area code here is seven-oh-three and the ZIP code is two two one
oh one.

Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.

--
John Varela
Mark Brader
2018-07-09 00:39:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
John Varela:
> The area code here is seven-oh-three and the ZIP code is two two one
> oh one.
>
> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.

You did. It's "six - five thousand".
--
Mark Brader | "What a strange field. Studying beings instead of mathematics.
Toronto | Could lead to recursive problems in logic."
***@vex.net | -- Robert L. Forward (The Flight of the Dragonfly)
Mack A. Damia
2018-07-09 00:51:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sun, 08 Jul 2018 19:39:48 -0500, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>John Varela:
>> The area code here is seven-oh-three and the ZIP code is two two one
>> oh one.
>>
>> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.
>
>You did. It's "six - five thousand".

Both. John is correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jZeTtGeQYg
Peter Young
2018-07-09 06:54:16 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 9 Jul 2018 ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

> John Varela:
>> The area code here is seven-oh-three and the ZIP code is two two one
>> oh one.
>>
>> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.

> You did. It's "six - five thousand".

It's actually both, I think, according to Glenn Miller, at different parts
of the song.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
CDB
2018-07-09 10:14:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/9/2018 2:54 AM, Peter Young wrote:
> On 9 Jul 2018 ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>> John Varela:
>>> The area code here is seven-oh-three and the ZIP code is two two
>>> one oh one.

>>> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.

>> You did. It's "six - five thousand".

> It's actually both, I think, according to Glenn Miller, at different
> parts of the song.

https://youtu.be/AGOUldTrk-A?t=2m14s
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-07-09 10:47:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 06:14:26 -0400, CDB <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 7/9/2018 2:54 AM, Peter Young wrote:
>> On 9 Jul 2018 ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
>>> John Varela:
>>>> The area code here is seven-oh-three and the ZIP code is two two
>>>> one oh one.
>
>>>> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.
>
>>> You did. It's "six - five thousand".
>
>> It's actually both, I think, according to Glenn Miller, at different
>> parts of the song.
>
>https://youtu.be/AGOUldTrk-A?t=2m14s

This has two text versions of the lyrics
https://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/p/pennsylvania65000.html
They both use:
Pennsylvania 6-5000
and
Pensylvania 6-5-0-0-0

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Mark Brader
2018-07-09 19:11:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
John Varela:
>>>> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.

Mark Brader:
>>> You did. It's "six - five thousand".

Peter Young:
>> It's actually both, I think, according to Glenn Miller, at different
>> parts of the song.

C.D. Bellemare:
> https://youtu.be/AGOUldTrk-A?t=2m14s

I don't do Internet video. Does this source confirm that Peter's right
and I was wrong?
--
Mark Brader "They have computers, and they may have
Toronto other weapons of mass destruction."
***@vex.net -- Janet Reno, 1998
Peter Young
2018-07-09 20:53:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 9 Jul 2018 ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

> John Varela:
>>>>> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.

> Mark Brader:
>>>> You did. It's "six - five thousand".

> Peter Young:
>>> It's actually both, I think, according to Glenn Miller, at different
>>> parts of the song.

> C.D. Bellemare:
>> https://youtu.be/AGOUldTrk-A?t=2m14s

> I don't do Internet video. >

I don't normally, but ...

> Does this source confirm that Peter's right and I was wrong?

... this source doesn't go far enough, being only the first chorus. My
recollection is that the last appearance of the phrase is that it's "six
five thousand". It's too hot here and I'm too tired to look further, but
I'm prepared to be proved wrong. "Old men forget".

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Jerry Friedman
2018-07-09 23:03:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 2:56:10 PM UTC-6, Peter Young wrote:
> On 9 Jul 2018 ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
> > John Varela:
> >>>>> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.
>
> > Mark Brader:
> >>>> You did. It's "six - five thousand".
>
> > Peter Young:
> >>> It's actually both, I think, according to Glenn Miller, at different
> >>> parts of the song.
>
> > C.D. Bellemare:
> >>


>
> > I don't do Internet video. >
>
> I don't normally, but ...
>
> > Does this source confirm that Peter's right and I was wrong?
>
> ... this source doesn't go far enough, being only the first chorus. My
> recollection is that the last appearance of the phrase is that it's "six
> five thousand". It's too hot here and I'm too tired to look further, but
> I'm prepared to be proved wrong. "Old men forget".

Your recollection is correct, according to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acsnJYqRqA0

CDB's link started at 2:14, so it probably included only the last
repetition of the phone number. But it won't play for me.

--
Jerry Friedman
CDB
2018-07-10 11:40:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/9/2018 7:03 PM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> Peter Young wrote:
>> ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

John Varela:
>>>>>>> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.

Mark Brader:
>>>>>> You did. It's "six - five thousand".

Peter Young:
>>>>> It's actually both, I think, according to Glenn Miller, at
>>>>> different parts of the song.

C.D. Bellemare:

................

Mark Brader:
I don't do Internet video.

I can see that. In a sense.

>> I don't normally, but ...

>>> Does this source confirm that Peter's right and I was wrong?

>> ... this source doesn't go far enough, being only the first chorus.
>> My recollection is that the last appearance of the phrase is that
>> it's "six five thousand". It's too hot here and I'm too tired to
>> look further, but I'm prepared to be proved wrong. "Old men
>> forget".
> Your recollection is correct, according to

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acsnJYqRqA0

> CDB's link started at 2:14, so it probably included only the last
> repetition of the phone number. But it won't play for me.

Mysterious ways. I have tried it, and it works for me.
CDB
2018-07-10 11:40:50 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/9/2018 4:53 PM, Peter Young wrote:
> ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

John Varela:
>>>>>> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.

Mark Brader:
>>>>> You did. It's "six - five thousand".

Peter Young:
>>>> It's actually both, I think, according to Glenn Miller, at
>>>> different parts of the song.

C.D. Bellemare:
>>> https://youtu.be/AGOUldTrk-A?t=2m14s

>> I don't do Internet video. >

> I don't normally, but ...

>> Does this source confirm that Peter's right and I was wrong?

> ... this source doesn't go far enough, being only the first chorus.
> My recollection is that the last appearance of the phrase is that
> it's "six five thousand". It's too hot here and I'm too tired to look
> further, but I'm prepared to be proved wrong. "Old men forget".

If that 's my link you mean, the chorus comes at 2:14 of the recording.
I didn't check to see if there are any more lyrics, but I suspect not.
CDB
2018-07-10 11:40:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 7/9/2018 3:11 PM, Mark Brader wrote:

John Varela:
>>>>> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.

Mark Brader:
>>>> You did. It's "six - five thousand".

Peter Young:
>>> It's actually both, I think, according to Glenn Miller, at
>>> different parts of the song.

C.D. Bellemare:
>> https://youtu.be/AGOUldTrk-A?t=2m14s

> I don't do Internet video. Does this source confirm that Peter's
> right and I was wrong?

It confirms that "six five oh-oh-oh" is used at least once during the
performance.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-07-10 12:55:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 2018-07-10 13:40:38 +0200, CDB <***@gmail.com> said:

> On 7/9/2018 3:11 PM, Mark Brader wrote:
>
> John Varela:
>>>>>> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.
>
> Mark Brader:
>>>>> You did. It's "six - five thousand".
>
> Peter Young:
>>>> It's actually both, I think, according to Glenn Miller, at
>>>> different parts of the song.
>
> C.D. Bellemare:
>>> https://youtu.be/AGOUldTrk-A?t=2m14s
>
>> I don't do Internet video. Does this source confirm that Peter's
>> right and I was wrong?
>
> It confirms that "six five oh-oh-oh" is used at least once during the
> performance.

It gets complicated with a long sequence of repeated digits. The number
I need to dial to open the barrier to our residence is 07000000626787.
(I'm not giving away any secret information: it only works if it
recognizes the telephone sending the command.)

--
athel
John Varela
2018-07-10 00:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 06:54:16 UTC, Peter Young <***@ormail.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 9 Jul 2018 ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>
> > John Varela:
> >> The area code here is seven-oh-three and the ZIP code is two two one
> >> oh one.
> >>
> >> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.
>
> > You did. It's "six - five thousand".
>
> It's actually both, I think, according to Glenn Miller, at different parts
> of the song.

The official lyric is Pennsylvania six-five thousand, but in the
final chorus the Glenn Miller band shouts "Pensylvania
six-five-oh-oh-oh". Not nil, zero, naught, or aught; they say "oh".

--
John Varela
Mark Brader
2018-07-10 06:19:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
John Varela:
> The official lyric is Pennsylvania six-five thousand, but in the
> final chorus the Glenn Miller band shouts "Pensylvania
> six-five-oh-oh-oh".

Thanks to you and Jerry for clearing up my misconception.

I stayed there once, by the way, probably early in the new century.
--
Mark Brader "Exercise 5-3: ... When should you
Toronto have stopped adding features...?"
***@vex.net -- Kernighan & Pike
Mack A. Damia
2018-07-10 14:27:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 10 Jul 2018 01:19:27 -0500, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:

>John Varela:
>> The official lyric is Pennsylvania six-five thousand, but in the
>> final chorus the Glenn Miller band shouts "Pensylvania
>> six-five-oh-oh-oh".
>
>Thanks to you and Jerry for clearing up my misconception.

The truth is often elusive, eh?

>I stayed there once, by the way, probably early in the new century.

Methinks you can't find the exit.
Peter Young
2018-07-10 06:24:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 10 Jul 2018 "John Varela" <***@verizon.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 06:54:16 UTC, Peter Young <***@ormail.co.uk>
> wrote:

>> On 9 Jul 2018 ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>>
>>> John Varela:
>>>> The area code here is seven-oh-three and the ZIP code is two two one
>>>> oh one.
>>>>
>>>> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.
>>
>>> You did. It's "six - five thousand".
>>
>> It's actually both, I think, according to Glenn Miller, at different parts
>> of the song.

> The official lyric is Pennsylvania six-five thousand, but in the
> final chorus the Glenn Miller band shouts "Pensylvania
> six-five-oh-oh-oh". Not nil, zero, naught, or aught; they say "oh".

Thank-you.

Peter.

--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Snidely
2018-07-10 16:44:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
John Varela submitted this idea :
> On Mon, 9 Jul 2018 06:54:16 UTC, Peter Young <***@ormail.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 9 Jul 2018 ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>>
>>> John Varela:
>>>> The area code here is seven-oh-three and the ZIP code is two two one
>>>> oh one.
>>>>
>>>> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.
>>> You did. It's "six - five thousand".
>>
>> It's actually both, I think, according to Glenn Miller, at different parts
>> of the song.
>
> The official lyric is Pennsylvania six-five thousand, but in the
> final chorus the Glenn Miller band shouts "Pensylvania
> six-five-oh-oh-oh". Not nil, zero, naught, or aught; they say "oh".

At 1:24 of Jerry's link, someone shouts "five thousand" (per my ears)
-- but not the whole phone number. 2:34-ish is the oh-digits.

CDB's link gives me "video is unavailable".

/dps

--
Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
precious heavy water.
_The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean
Peter T. Daniels
2018-07-09 04:11:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Sunday, July 8, 2018 at 7:26:41 PM UTC-4, John Varela wrote:

> The area code here is seven-oh-three and the ZIP code is two two one
> oh one.
>
> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.

According to the song, it was PEnnsylvania six, five thousand.
Snidely
2018-07-10 16:02:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
John Varela wrote on 7/8/2018 :
> On Sun, 8 Jul 2018 18:35:00 UTC, bill van <***@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2018-07-08 14:47:56 +0000, Ken Blake said:
>>
>>> On 4 Jul 2018 22:52:29 GMT, "John Varela" <***@verizon.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jerry Friedman:
>>>>>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
>>>>>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter Moylan:
>>>>>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
>>>>>
>>>>> It wasn't one, really.
>>>>>
>>>>>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
>>>>>> "one-love", I suppose.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
>>>>> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
>>>>
>>>> I would be most likely to say "one-oh".
>>>
>>>
>>> I always try to pronounce the numeral 0 as "zero." To me "oh" is a
>>> letter, not a number.
>>
>> So do I, usually. It avoids confusion between the number and the
>> letter. But there are
>> exceptions. The main telephone area code for Vancouver is 604, and
>> absolutely everyone
>> says it as "six-oh-four".
>
> The area code here is seven-oh-three and the ZIP code is two two one
> oh one.

There are too many area codes here, and 5 minute's drive gets you into
a different zip code (ignoring Plus-4), unless you head out to Thousand
Oaks (where zip codes change in a 10 minute drive) or
Lancaster/Palmdale (where 5 minutes drive gets you out of sight of
neighbors).

/dps

>
> Don't forget PEnnsylvania six five oh oh oh.

--
Rule #0: Don't be on fire.
In case of fire, exit the building before tweeting about it.
(Sighting reported by Adam F)
Peter T. Daniels
2018-07-10 16:29:53 UTC
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On Tuesday, July 10, 2018 at 12:02:21 PM UTC-4, Snidely wrote:

> There are too many area codes here, and 5 minute's drive gets you into
> a different zip code (ignoring Plus-4), unless you head out to Thousand
> Oaks (where zip codes change in a 10 minute drive) or
> Lancaster/Palmdale (where 5 minutes drive gets you out of sight of
> neighbors).

Well, you've chosen to live in a very densely populated place. Both codes,
area and ZIP (it's an acronym), are assigned by population.
Lewis
2018-07-08 23:59:19 UTC
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In message <phtlgk$hq4$***@dont-email.me> bill van <***@shaw.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-07-08 14:47:56 +0000, Ken Blake said:

>> On 4 Jul 2018 22:52:29 GMT, "John Varela" <***@verizon.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 4 Jul 2018 08:46:57 UTC, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jerry Friedman:
>>>>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup
>>>>>> scores with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>>>>
>>>> Peter Moylan:
>>>>> So how do you say it in American? Oh, wait, I see you gave a reference.
>>>>
>>>> It wasn't one, really.
>>>>
>>>>> A score of "one-zero" sounds vaguely wrong to me. You could go for
>>>>> "one-love", I suppose.
>>>>
>>>> Then you'd sound like you escaped from the tennis world. The standard
>>>> pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".
>>>
>>> I would be most likely to say "one-oh".
>>
>>
>> I always try to pronounce the numeral 0 as "zero." To me "oh" is a
>> letter, not a number.

> So do I, usually. It avoids confusion between the number and the
> letter. But there are
> exceptions. The main telephone area code for Vancouver is 604, and
> absolutely everyone
> says it as "six-oh-four".

Denver's area codes are 303 and 720, universally three-oh-three and
seven-two-zero.

--
Mos Eisley spaceport. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum
and villainy. We must be cautious.
Mark Brader
2018-07-08 22:08:52 UTC
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Mark Brader:
>>> The standard pronunciation of a 1-0 score over here is "one (to) nothing".

John Varela:
>> I would be most likely to say "one-oh".

I don't think I've ever heard that. (I have heard "one-zip", which
someone else mentioned, but I consider it nonstandard, perhaps a sort
of of emphasis.)

However, when 1-0 is not a score but is a win-loss record, i.e. it
means one win and no losses, then it's pronounced "one and oh".


Ken Blake:
> I always try to pronounce the numeral 0 as "zero." To me "oh" is a
> letter, not a number.

That's a good habit in situations where either one might occur, but
unnecessary verbosity otherwise, I'd say.
--
Mark Brader | Peter Neumann on Y2K:
Toronto | This problem gives new meaning to "going out on
***@vex.net | a date" (which many systems will do on 1/1/00).

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-07-04 10:26:38 UTC
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On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 16:24:42 -0600, Jerry Friedman
<***@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Okay, what's going on with "this" and "are"?
>
>"And this England are so young, and they've played thus far with such
>kind of optimism, with verve and joy."
>
>Roger Bennett, who has an English accent, in an interview on U.S.
>National Public Radio on June 29.
>
>https://www.npr.org/2018/06/29/624789715/remaining-teams-move-on-to-knockout-stage-of-world-cup

To be understood as "And (the members of) this England (team) are so
young,..."

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Jerry Friedman
2018-07-04 13:18:50 UTC
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Raw Message
On 7/4/18 4:26 AM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Jul 2018 16:24:42 -0600, Jerry Friedman
> <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Okay, what's going on with "this" and "are"?
>>
>> "And this England are so young, and they've played thus far with such
>> kind of optimism, with verve and joy."
>>
>> Roger Bennett, who has an English accent, in an interview on U.S.
>> National Public Radio on June 29.
>>
>> https://www.npr.org/2018/06/29/624789715/remaining-teams-move-on-to-knockout-stage-of-world-cup
>
> To be understood as "And (the members of) this England (team) are so
> young,..."

Thanks.

--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
2018-07-04 21:37:14 UTC
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* Jerry Friedman:

> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup scores
> with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>
> https://www.npr.org/2018/06/18/620939115/reaction-to-mexicos-soccer-goal-moved-the-earth-literally

Isn't the most common format for soccer results also "Mexico 1 -
Germany nil"? [1] Another thing to get used to, besides "zero" having
a different name in almost each sport.
____
[1] I understand that the "beat" in the above makes it different.

--
The trouble some people have being German, I thought,
I have being human.
-- Margaret Atwood, Surfacing (novel), p.130
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-07-04 23:03:14 UTC
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On Wednesday, 4 July 2018 22:37:17 UTC+1, Quinn C wrote:
> * Jerry Friedman:
>
> > And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup scores
> > with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
> >
> > https://www.npr.org/2018/06/18/620939115/reaction-to-mexicos-soccer-goal-moved-the-earth-literally
>
> Isn't the most common format for soccer results also "Mexico 1 -
> Germany nil"? [1] Another thing to get used to, besides "zero" having
> a different name in almost each sport.
> ____
> [1] I understand that the "beat" in the above makes it different.
>

Only in spoken announcements of a list of results. The written format is
more usually

Mexico 1-0 Germany

What is different is that home teams come first. It's A v B where A is
at home rather than the B @ A format in US fixtures.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-07-05 02:19:06 UTC
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On Wednesday, July 4, 2018 at 7:03:17 PM UTC-4, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
> On Wednesday, 4 July 2018 22:37:17 UTC+1, Quinn C wrote:

> > Isn't the most common format for soccer results also "Mexico 1 -
> > Germany nil"? [1] Another thing to get used to, besides "zero" having
> > a different name in almost each sport.
> > ____
> > [1] I understand that the "beat" in the above makes it different.
>
> Only in spoken announcements of a list of results. The written format is
> more usually
>
> Mexico 1-0 Germany
>
> What is different is that home teams come first. It's A v B where A is
> at home rather than the B @ A format in US fixtures.

In baseball, the home team bats in the second half of the inning, so it's
not only polite, it's logical to list the visitors first.
Quinn C
2018-07-05 17:47:00 UTC
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Raw Message
* Madrigal Gurneyhalt:

> On Wednesday, 4 July 2018 22:37:17 UTC+1, Quinn C wrote:
>> * Jerry Friedman:
>>
>>> And while I'm at it, I've heard NPR announcers mention World Cup scores
>>> with "nil". E.g., "Mexico beat Germany 1-nil."
>>>
>>> https://www.npr.org/2018/06/18/620939115/reaction-to-mexicos-soccer-goal-moved-the-earth-literally
>>
>> Isn't the most common format for soccer results also "Mexico 1 -
>> Germany nil"? [1] Another thing to get used to, besides "zero" having
>> a different name in almost each sport.
>> ____
>> [1] I understand that the "beat" in the above makes it different.
>>
>
> Only in spoken announcements of a list of results. The written format is
> more usually
>
> Mexico 1-0 Germany
>
> What is different is that home teams come first. It's A v B where A is
> at home rather than the B @ A format in US fixtures.

Home team first is the same in German, but the usual format is:

Mexiko -- Deutschland 1:0

And that's the order in which it's spoken as well. The : becomes "zu".

--
Bill Gates working as a waiter:
- Waiter, there's a fly in my soup
- Try again, maybe it won't be there this time
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-07-03 16:32:06 UTC
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On Tuesday, 3 July 2018 16:40:50 UTC+1, Harrison Hill wrote:
> Americans are often perplexed by us Brits using "The police were" vs
> "The police was", so how about:
>
> "There was three kings into the east..."?
>
> I've had this in my vocabulary since I was a teenager - from a Folk
> Song - but had no idea until today that it is Burns:
>
> <https://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/robert-burns.html>

It's not Burns. It's a barely disguised piece of plagiarism.
Harrison Hill
2018-07-03 16:47:50 UTC
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On Tuesday, 3 July 2018 17:32:09 UTC+1, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
> On Tuesday, 3 July 2018 16:40:50 UTC+1, Harrison Hill wrote:
> > Americans are often perplexed by us Brits using "The police were" vs
> > "The police was", so how about:
> >
> > "There was three kings into the east..."?
> >
> > I've had this in my vocabulary since I was a teenager - from a Folk
> > Song - but had no idea until today that it is Burns:
> >
> > <https://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/poetry/robert-burns.html>
>
> It's not Burns. It's a barely disguised piece of plagiarism.

And variously "into the east" and "unto the east"; but either
way "towards the east"?

"AS it is well known that the ‘wise men’ came ‘from the East,’ and
as Mr. Touch-and-go Bullet-head came from the East, it follows that
Mr. Bullet-head was a wise man".

<https://classic-literature.co.uk/x-ing-a-paragraph/>
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