Discussion:
Joyce: you'll let the fire out
(too old to reply)
Marius Hancu
2017-04-20 00:50:00 UTC
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Hello,

~~~
[The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]

He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.

`I'll teach you to let the fire out!' he said, rolling up his sleeve in
order to give his arm free play.

The little boy cried `O, pa!' and ran whimpering round the table, but
the man followed him and caught him by the coat. The little boy looked
about him wildly but, seeing no way of escape, fell upon his knees.

`Now, you'll let the fire out the next time!' said the man, striking at
him vigorously with the stick. `Take that, you little whelp!'

James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts)
~~~

1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which _was
standing_ behind it."

Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?

2. "Now, _you'll_ let the fire out the next time!"

Is this form of a threat, using "you'll/you will," Standard English?
Does it mean:
"Now, if you let the fire [die] out the next time you are going to
get/catch it!"?

Thanks.
--
Marius Hancu
Tony Cooper
2017-04-20 01:17:52 UTC
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On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 20:50:00 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts)
~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which _was
standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
If so, they've expanded the border. I see nothing unusual about it.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-04-22 10:06:49 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 20:50:00 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts)
~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which _was
standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
If so, they've expanded the border. I see nothing unusual about it.
Nor I. Totally normal in British English.
--
athel
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-04-22 14:52:53 UTC
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On Sat, 22 Apr 2017 12:06:49 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 20:50:00 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts)
~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which _was
standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
If so, they've expanded the border. I see nothing unusual about it.
Nor I. Totally normal in British English.
Agreed. If the walking stick had been knocked and had fallen over it
would then have been "lying" on the floor.

Back to "standing" -

Buildings and other objects can be described as "standing" or
"freestanding".

Plaque saying "The Ryves Holt House the oldest building standing in
State of Delaware"
Loading Image...

List of tallest freestanding structures [past and present]:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tallest_freestanding_structures

etc, etc.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Sam Plusnet
2017-04-22 22:22:10 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 20:50:00 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts)
~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which _was
standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
If so, they've expanded the border. I see nothing unusual about it.
Nor I. Totally normal in British English.
Agreed. Is there any sort of English which would consider this usage to
be unusual?
--
Sam Plusnet
bill van
2017-04-23 00:27:33 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 20:50:00 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts)
~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which _was
standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
If so, they've expanded the border. I see nothing unusual about it.
Nor I. Totally normal in British English.
Agreed. Is there any sort of English which would consider this usage to
be unusual?
The part about the standing stick is normal in CanE as well. We'd
usually call it a cane rather than a walking stick, but "walking stick"
is nevertheless perfectly clear.
--
bill
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
2017-04-23 00:41:06 UTC
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Post by bill van
The part about the standing stick is normal in CanE as well. We'd
usually call it a cane rather than a walking stick, but "walking
stick" is nevertheless perfectly clear.
As for example:

Leon Redbone's "My Walkin(g) Stick" (see YouTube).
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Tony Cooper
2017-04-23 00:54:37 UTC
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Post by bill van
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 20:50:00 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts)
~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which _was
standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
If so, they've expanded the border. I see nothing unusual about it.
Nor I. Totally normal in British English.
Agreed. Is there any sort of English which would consider this usage to
be unusual?
The part about the standing stick is normal in CanE as well. We'd
usually call it a cane rather than a walking stick, but "walking stick"
is nevertheless perfectly clear.
To me, they are two different things. A cane is used by someone with
an infirmity. A walking stick is used by a very healthy person who
hikes in rough or hilly terrain. Walking sticks are usually thick and
long; as long as a man is tall.

Dress canes, in the US, though used to be carried by the non-infirm as
part of a gentleman's ensemble. They were usually thin and with a
knobbed end. Not to be leaned on. Similar in concept to a military
officer's swagger stick.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
David Kleinecke
2017-04-23 02:16:58 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
Post by bill van
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 20:50:00 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts)
~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which _was
standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
If so, they've expanded the border. I see nothing unusual about it.
Nor I. Totally normal in British English.
Agreed. Is there any sort of English which would consider this usage to
be unusual?
The part about the standing stick is normal in CanE as well. We'd
usually call it a cane rather than a walking stick, but "walking stick"
is nevertheless perfectly clear.
To me, they are two different things. A cane is used by someone with
an infirmity. A walking stick is used by a very healthy person who
hikes in rough or hilly terrain. Walking sticks are usually thick and
long; as long as a man is tall.
Dress canes, in the US, though used to be carried by the non-infirm as
part of a gentleman's ensemble. They were usually thin and with a
knobbed end. Not to be leaned on. Similar in concept to a military
officer's swagger stick.
This being set in an Irish setting perhaps the famed shillelagh.
charles
2017-04-23 09:10:07 UTC
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Post by bill van
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 20:50:00 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~ [The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts) ~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which
_was standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing,"
an Irishism?
If so, they've expanded the border. I see nothing unusual about it.
Nor I. Totally normal in British English.
Agreed. Is there any sort of English which would consider this usage
to be unusual?
The part about the standing stick is normal in CanE as well. We'd
usually call it a cane rather than a walking stick, but "walking stick"
is nevertheless perfectly clear.
To me, they are two different things. A cane is used by someone with an
infirmity. A walking stick is used by a very healthy person who hikes in
rough or hilly terrain. Walking sticks are usually thick and long; as
long as a man is tall.
Dress canes, in the US, though used to be carried by the non-infirm as
part of a gentleman's ensemble. They were usually thin and with a
knobbed end. Not to be leaned on. Similar in concept to a military
officer's swagger stick.
Of course, in Scottish regiments, officers carried a long walking stick -
with a ram's horn handle, rather thana can "swagger stick". I've still got
the one issued to my father.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
Katy Jennison
2017-04-23 11:25:20 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
Post by bill van
The part about the standing stick is normal in CanE as well. We'd
usually call it a cane rather than a walking stick, but "walking stick"
is nevertheless perfectly clear.
To me, they are two different things. A cane is used by someone with
an infirmity. A walking stick is used by a very healthy person who
hikes in rough or hilly terrain. Walking sticks are usually thick and
long; as long as a man is tall.
Dress canes, in the US, though used to be carried by the non-infirm as
part of a gentleman's ensemble. They were usually thin and with a
knobbed end. Not to be leaned on. Similar in concept to a military
officer's swagger stick.
Interesting. Dunno if I'm typical of BrE, but I think of a
walking-stick principally as the kind of stick an infirm person might
use for help with walking: what CanE and AmE call a cane.

In myE the stick used for help with hiking would if waist-height
probably be called simply "a stick", without the "walking", and if
longer probably "a staff".

There's also the lightweight metal variety usually called a "walking pole".

A "cane" would be either a fashion accessory or, in context, an
instrument of, hmm, corporal chastisement.
--
Katy Jennison
charles
2017-04-23 17:54:34 UTC
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Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by bill van
The part about the standing stick is normal in CanE as well. We'd
usually call it a cane rather than a walking stick, but "walking
stick" is nevertheless perfectly clear.
To me, they are two different things. A cane is used by someone with
an infirmity. A walking stick is used by a very healthy person who
hikes in rough or hilly terrain. Walking sticks are usually thick and
long; as long as a man is tall.
Dress canes, in the US, though used to be carried by the non-infirm as
part of a gentleman's ensemble. They were usually thin and with a
knobbed end. Not to be leaned on. Similar in concept to a military
officer's swagger stick.
Interesting. Dunno if I'm typical of BrE, but I think of a
walking-stick principally as the kind of stick an infirm person might
use for help with walking: what CanE and AmE call a cane.
In myE the stick used for help with hiking would if waist-height
probably be called simply "a stick", without the "walking", and if
longer probably "a staff".
my parents always called that a "walking stick". I'm not sure waht other
kind of stick the might be - perhaps one to throw for the dog - that was
just a stick or perhaps on to drop in the river - a Pooh Stick.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
Snidely
2017-04-25 07:04:37 UTC
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charles suggested that ...
Post by charles
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by bill van
The part about the standing stick is normal in CanE as well. We'd
usually call it a cane rather than a walking stick, but "walking
stick" is nevertheless perfectly clear.
To me, they are two different things. A cane is used by someone with
an infirmity. A walking stick is used by a very healthy person who
hikes in rough or hilly terrain. Walking sticks are usually thick and
long; as long as a man is tall.
Dress canes, in the US, though used to be carried by the non-infirm as
part of a gentleman's ensemble. They were usually thin and with a
knobbed end. Not to be leaned on. Similar in concept to a military
officer's swagger stick.
Interesting. Dunno if I'm typical of BrE, but I think of a
walking-stick principally as the kind of stick an infirm person might
use for help with walking: what CanE and AmE call a cane.
In myE the stick used for help with hiking would if waist-height
probably be called simply "a stick", without the "walking", and if
longer probably "a staff".
my parents always called that a "walking stick". I'm not sure waht other
kind of stick the might be - perhaps one to throw for the dog - that was
just a stick or perhaps on to drop in the river - a Pooh Stick.
We did walking sticks a few months ago. I remember having a nice time
getting some links to post to the thread. Probably as close to walking
the Pacific Crest Trail as I'll come.

/dps
--
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain
charles
2017-04-23 09:06:37 UTC
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Post by bill van
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 20:50:00 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~ [The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts) ~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which
_was standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
If so, they've expanded the border. I see nothing unusual about it.
Nor I. Totally normal in British English.
Agreed. Is there any sort of English which would consider this usage
to be unusual?
The part about the standing stick is normal in CanE as well. We'd
usually call it a cane rather than a walking stick, but "walking stick"
is nevertheless perfectly clear.
to me, a cane and a walking stick are not the same thing. A cane is quite
lightweight and used as a fashion accessory (or for walloping naughty
schoolboys) where as a walking stick is something quite stout and is used
to help one up hills, etc. Nowadays it's called a walking pole and made of
metal
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-04-23 13:47:54 UTC
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Post by charles
Post by bill van
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 20:50:00 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~ [The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts) ~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which
_was standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
If so, they've expanded the border. I see nothing unusual about it.
Nor I. Totally normal in British English.
Agreed. Is there any sort of English which would consider this usage
to be unusual?
The part about the standing stick is normal in CanE as well. We'd
usually call it a cane rather than a walking stick, but "walking stick"
is nevertheless perfectly clear.
to me, a cane and a walking stick are not the same thing. A cane is quite
lightweight and used as a fashion accessory (or for walloping naughty
schoolboys) where as a walking stick is something quite stout and is used
to help one up hills, etc. Nowadays it's called a walking pole and made of
metal
This place in the UK sells a wide variety of such objects in various
categories, The Stick & Cane Shop:
https://www.stickandcaneshop.co.uk/

I have three walking sticks in by house (that I can find, there may be
others). One is a simple shape similar to this, but with a smoother
surface:
Loading Image...

I could use it if I needed to.

I have inherited two others which appear to have been made in a local
(non-Eropean) style but aimed at the tourist market as souvenirs rather
than for use. The locale may have been the Sepik River district in Papua
New Guinea.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-04-23 15:16:15 UTC
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On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 14:47:54 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
(non-Eropean)
Conventional spelling "European".
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Janet
2017-04-23 15:20:01 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 14:47:54 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
(non-Eropean)
Conventional spelling "European".
If Brexit and the French election puts the EU on the ropes, maybe
they'll just call it Rope.

Janet.
Richard Heathfield
2017-04-23 16:15:56 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 14:47:54 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
(non-Eropean)
Conventional spelling "European".
I assmed the missing '' was becase yo were being somewhat zealos in yor
cross-pondian compatibility. I am given to nderstand that they have
little se for the letter in the Nited States.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot k
"senet is a strange place" - dmr 29 Jly 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Peter Moylan
2017-04-25 04:09:54 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
I have three walking sticks in by house (that I can find, there may be
others). One is a simple shape similar to this, but with a smoother
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/18/8a/00/188a00ca5a433995e631f1298e5fe23c.jpg
I could use it if I needed to.
I have inherited two others which appear to have been made in a local
(non-Eropean) style but aimed at the tourist market as souvenirs rather
than for use. The locale may have been the Sepik River district in Papua
New Guinea.
My wife has a walking stick that she bought in Scotland. The handle
looks like a duck's head, but I gather it's actually a deer foot.

Why do we go halfway around the world to buy something when there are
cheaper and more functional ones available close to home?
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Cheryl
2017-04-25 10:26:32 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
I have three walking sticks in by house (that I can find, there may be
others). One is a simple shape similar to this, but with a smoother
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/18/8a/00/188a00ca5a433995e631f1298e5fe23c.jpg
I could use it if I needed to.
I have inherited two others which appear to have been made in a local
(non-Eropean) style but aimed at the tourist market as souvenirs rather
than for use. The locale may have been the Sepik River district in Papua
New Guinea.
My wife has a walking stick that she bought in Scotland. The handle
looks like a duck's head, but I gather it's actually a deer foot.
Why do we go halfway around the world to buy something when there are
cheaper and more functional ones available close to home?
You have to bring a souvenir home! How else will anyone know you travelled?
--
Cheryl
Tony Cooper
2017-04-25 13:00:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
I have three walking sticks in by house (that I can find, there may be
others). One is a simple shape similar to this, but with a smoother
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/18/8a/00/188a00ca5a433995e631f1298e5fe23c.jpg
I could use it if I needed to.
I have inherited two others which appear to have been made in a local
(non-Eropean) style but aimed at the tourist market as souvenirs rather
than for use. The locale may have been the Sepik River district in Papua
New Guinea.
My wife has a walking stick that she bought in Scotland. The handle
looks like a duck's head, but I gather it's actually a deer foot.
Why do we go halfway around the world to buy something when there are
cheaper and more functional ones available close to home?
You have to bring a souvenir home! How else will anyone know you travelled?
Most tat shops in the UK and Europe sell those little badges that can
be attached to a walking stick:
Loading Image...

Much easier to pack and bring home than a walking stick.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Katy Jennison
2017-04-25 13:33:10 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
I have three walking sticks in by house (that I can find, there may be
others). One is a simple shape similar to this, but with a smoother
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/18/8a/00/188a00ca5a433995e631f1298e5fe23c.jpg
I could use it if I needed to.
I have inherited two others which appear to have been made in a local
(non-Eropean) style but aimed at the tourist market as souvenirs rather
than for use. The locale may have been the Sepik River district in Papua
New Guinea.
My wife has a walking stick that she bought in Scotland. The handle
looks like a duck's head, but I gather it's actually a deer foot.
Why do we go halfway around the world to buy something when there are
cheaper and more functional ones available close to home?
You have to bring a souvenir home! How else will anyone know you travelled?
Most tat shops in the UK and Europe sell those little badges that can
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/XigAAOSwBnVW9P1I/s-l300.jpg
Much easier to pack and bring home than a walking stick.
Indeed, you can buy them online without having to go to the trouble and
expense of travelling at all.
--
Katy Jennison
Lewis
2017-04-25 17:00:40 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
I have three walking sticks in by house (that I can find, there may be
others). One is a simple shape similar to this, but with a smoother
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/18/8a/00/188a00ca5a433995e631f1298e5fe23c.jpg
I could use it if I needed to.
I have inherited two others which appear to have been made in a local
(non-Eropean) style but aimed at the tourist market as souvenirs rather
than for use. The locale may have been the Sepik River district in Papua
New Guinea.
My wife has a walking stick that she bought in Scotland. The handle
looks like a duck's head, but I gather it's actually a deer foot.
Why do we go halfway around the world to buy something when there are
cheaper and more functional ones available close to home?
You have to bring a souvenir home! How else will anyone know you travelled?
The sunburn and dyspepsia
--
What the hell's goin' on in the engine room? Were there monkeys? Some
terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?
bill van
2017-04-23 18:16:19 UTC
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Post by charles
Post by bill van
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 20:50:00 -0400, Marius Hancu
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~ [The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts) ~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which
_was standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
If so, they've expanded the border. I see nothing unusual about it.
Nor I. Totally normal in British English.
Agreed. Is there any sort of English which would consider this usage
to be unusual?
The part about the standing stick is normal in CanE as well. We'd
usually call it a cane rather than a walking stick, but "walking stick"
is nevertheless perfectly clear.
to me, a cane and a walking stick are not the same thing. A cane is quite
lightweight and used as a fashion accessory (or for walloping naughty
schoolboys) where as a walking stick is something quite stout and is used
to help one up hills, etc. Nowadays it's called a walking pole and made of
metal
My wife, who is disabled, has a collection of canes from her days of
transition between normal walking and her wheelchair. We keep them in an
old umbrella stand. They are neither a fashion accessory -- although
they can be attractive objects -- or walking sticks.

The metal ones are called Nordic poles here. I'm fairly sure they come
to us from Nordic skiing, also called cross-country skiing.
--
bill
Jerry Friedman
2017-04-25 18:43:52 UTC
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...
Post by bill van
Post by charles
to me, a cane and a walking stick are not the same thing. A cane is quite
lightweight and used as a fashion accessory (or for walloping naughty
schoolboys) where as a walking stick is something quite stout and is used
to help one up hills, etc. Nowadays it's called a walking pole and made of
metal
My wife, who is disabled, has a collection of canes from her days of
transition between normal walking and her wheelchair. We keep them in an
old umbrella stand. They are neither a fashion accessory -- although
they can be attractive objects -- or walking sticks.
The metal ones are called Nordic poles here. I'm fairly sure they come
to us from Nordic skiing, also called cross-country skiing.
A lot of hikers around here use ski poles. I don't know whether they're
cross-country or downhill. I've borrowed some for up to a minute at
a time without feeling any desire to have my own.
--
Jerry Friedman
bill van
2017-04-25 23:54:30 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by bill van
Post by charles
to me, a cane and a walking stick are not the same thing. A cane is quite
lightweight and used as a fashion accessory (or for walloping naughty
schoolboys) where as a walking stick is something quite stout and is used
to help one up hills, etc. Nowadays it's called a walking pole and made of
metal
My wife, who is disabled, has a collection of canes from her days of
transition between normal walking and her wheelchair. We keep them in an
old umbrella stand. They are neither a fashion accessory -- although
they can be attractive objects -- or walking sticks.
The metal ones are called Nordic poles here. I'm fairly sure they come
to us from Nordic skiing, also called cross-country skiing.
A lot of hikers around here use ski poles. I don't know whether they're
cross-country or downhill. I've borrowed some for up to a minute at
a time without feeling any desire to have my own.
Sportsmedbc, a reputable group known locally as the UBC sports medicine
clinic, says the poles are modified from those used in cross-country
skiing.

https://sportmedbc.com/content/nordic-walking
--
bill
Jerry Friedman
2017-04-20 02:14:17 UTC
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Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
[and wants an excuse to hit somebody]
Post by Marius Hancu
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
`I'll teach you to let the fire out!' he said, rolling up his sleeve in
order to give his arm free play.
The little boy cried `O, pa!' and ran whimpering round the table, but
the man followed him and caught him by the coat. The little boy looked
about him wildly but, seeing no way of escape, fell upon his knees.
`Now, you'll let the fire out the next time!' said the man, striking at
him vigorously with the stick. `Take that, you little whelp!'
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts)
~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which _was
standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
Totally normal as far as I know. The stick was standing there when
the father seized it. It seems to me that "the walking-stick which
stood behind it" would have a suggestion that the stick was always there.
Post by Marius Hancu
2. "Now, _you'll_ let the fire out the next time!"
Is this form of a threat, using "you'll/you will," Standard English?
It's a little odd for me.
Post by Marius Hancu
"Now, if you let the fire [die] out the next time you are going to
get/catch it!"?
That's the general idea, but I think it's more verbal irony, or
something like, "Now, I suppose you'll let the fire out next time,
eh? No, you won't? Good."

Compare "I'll teach you to let the fire go out."
--
Jerry Friedman
Mark Brader
2017-04-21 23:18:31 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Marius Hancu
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which _was
standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
Totally normal as far as I know. The stick was standing there when
the father seized it. It seems to me that "the walking-stick which
stood behind it" would have a suggestion that the stick was always there.
Agreed in all respects.
--
Mark Brader "The design of the lowercase e in text faces
Toronto produces strong feelings (or should do so)."
***@vex.net -- Walter Tracy
avs234
2017-04-22 00:38:59 UTC
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"Letting the fire out" seems most natural for everybody in this thread.
The phrase looks very idiomatic at once, but I'm failing to find its meaning in the Internet, stumbling upon the performances of various rap musicians... The way it's generally accepted suggests it's Biblical, no less? Could you please give a hint about that? Why has a little boy be taught how to let the fire out?
I'm +very+ sorry for my ignorance, indeed!!
avs234
2017-04-22 00:44:40 UTC
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Post by avs234
"Letting the fire out" seems most natural for everybody in this thread.
The phrase looks very idiomatic at once, but I'm failing to find its meaning in the Internet, stumbling upon the performances of various rap musicians... The way it's generally accepted suggests it's Biblical, no less? Could you please give a hint about that? Why has a little boy be taught how to let the fire out?
I'm +very+ sorry for my ignorance, indeed!!
I mean: a boy has to be taught, Why has a boy +to+ be taught
David Kleinecke
2017-04-22 00:46:59 UTC
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Post by avs234
"Letting the fire out" seems most natural for everybody in this thread.
It's not natural to me. I would say "letting the fire go out".

I might say "letting the cat out" - with a somewhat different meaning.

OT: Does "Let the fire fall" mean anything to you?
avs234
2017-04-22 01:14:25 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
Post by avs234
"Letting the fire out" seems most natural for everybody in this thread.
It's not natural to me. I would say "letting the fire go out".
I might say "letting the cat out" - with a somewhat different meaning.
OT: Does "Let the fire fall" mean anything to you?
It does, a bit obscure though (the more so about the cat)... And would you please kindly clarify this for the stupid me?
David Kleinecke
2017-04-22 02:49:36 UTC
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Post by avs234
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by avs234
"Letting the fire out" seems most natural for everybody in this thread.
It's not natural to me. I would say "letting the fire go out".
I might say "letting the cat out" - with a somewhat different meaning.
OT: Does "Let the fire fall" mean anything to you?
It does, a bit obscure though (the more so about the cat)... And would you please kindly clarify this for the stupid me?
This started with "let the fire out". I don't have that idiom.
Rather the idiom I have is "let the fire go out". I imagine
that my version is usual English version and the original is
an Irish dialect version.

But if I substitute "cat" for "fire" I do say "let the cat out".
Why "cat" but not "fire"? The two idioms seem related along the
line of "allow X to go elsewhere" but apparently cats are felt to
have more volition than fires. "Let the cat go out" is also
possible (with the same meaning as without go). The "go" version
feels older to me.

The fire used to fall in the good old days in Yosemite Valley.
avs234
2017-04-22 04:01:31 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
Post by avs234
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by avs234
"Letting the fire out" seems most natural for everybody in this thread.
It's not natural to me. I would say "letting the fire go out".
I might say "letting the cat out" - with a somewhat different meaning.
OT: Does "Let the fire fall" mean anything to you?
It does, a bit obscure though (the more so about the cat)... And would you please kindly clarify this for the stupid me?
This started with "let the fire out". I don't have that idiom.
Rather the idiom I have is "let the fire go out". I imagine
that my version is usual English version and the original is
an Irish dialect version.
But if I substitute "cat" for "fire" I do say "let the cat out".
Why "cat" but not "fire"? The two idioms seem related along the
line of "allow X to go elsewhere" but apparently cats are felt to
have more volition than fires. "Let the cat go out" is also
possible (with the same meaning as without go). The "go" version
feels older to me.
The fire used to fall in the good old days in Yosemite Valley.
I believe it's all clear now, and my cat has been acquitted (she despises Wiskas if you ask me).
So simple. Thank you very much, David!
CDB
2017-04-22 06:01:33 UTC
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Post by avs234
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by avs234
"Letting the fire out" seems most natural for everybody in this thread.
It's not natural to me. I would say "letting the fire go out".
I might say "letting the cat out" - with a somewhat different meaning.
OT: Does "Let the fire fall" mean anything to you?
It does, a bit obscure though (the more so about the cat)... And
would you please kindly clarify this for the stupid me?
This started with "let the fire out". I don't have that idiom. Rather
the idiom I have is "let the fire go out". I imagine that my version
is usual English version and the original is an Irish dialect
version.
But if I substitute "cat" for "fire" I do say "let the cat out". Why
"cat" but not "fire"? The two idioms seem related along the line of
"allow X to go elsewhere" but apparently cats are felt to have more
volition than fires. "Let the cat go out" is also possible (with the
same meaning as without go). The "go" version feels older to me.
It seems to work with a following preposition when "go" means "move from
one place to another" but not for metaphorical uses: "let her up the
stairs, in(to) the house, through the door, on the carnival ride, around
the barrier", but not "let him to sleep, in peace*, on talking, with
God, crazy if he wants to".
_______________________________
*(which is not the same as "leave him in peace")
The fire used to fall in the good old days in Yosemite Valley.
Lewis
2017-04-22 05:21:36 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
Post by avs234
"Letting the fire out" seems most natural for everybody in this thread.
It's not natural to me. I would say "letting the fire go out".
"Letting the fire out" means "letting the fire escape its confines".
Post by David Kleinecke
I might say "letting the cat out" - with a somewhat different meaning.
Not if the cat is on fire.
Post by David Kleinecke
OT: Does "Let the fire fall" mean anything to you?
That means stop feeding the fire in the fireplace/firepit and let it
drop down to a low flame or embers, I think. It's not a phrase that is
used much when most fires are temporary things more for decoration than
actual utility.
--
LOOSE TEETH DON'T NEED MY HELP Bart chalkboard Ep. AABF16
Hen Hanna
2017-04-20 04:00:57 UTC
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Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
`I'll teach you to let the fire out!' he said, rolling up his sleeve in
order to give his arm free play.
The little boy cried `O, pa!' and ran whimpering round the table, but
the man followed him and caught him by the coat. The little boy looked
about him wildly but, seeing no way of escape, fell upon his knees.
`Now, you'll let the fire out the next time!' said the man, striking at
him vigorously with the stick. `Take that, you little whelp!'
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts)
~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which _was
standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
not sure about [the continuous aspect], but
[was standing] sounds a bit as if the stick was a person.
Post by Marius Hancu
`I'll teach you to let the fire out!'
i like the ambiguity of
[I'll teach you to ...]

This book will teach you to read music.
I'll teach you to read music.

HH
Hen Hanna
2017-04-20 04:22:06 UTC
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Post by Hen Hanna
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
`I'll teach you to let the fire out!' he said, rolling up his sleeve in
order to give his arm free play.
The little boy cried `O, pa!' and ran whimpering round the table, but
the man followed him and caught him by the coat. The little boy looked
about him wildly but, seeing no way of escape, fell upon his knees.
`Now, you'll let the fire out the next time!' said the man, striking at
him vigorously with the stick. `Take that, you little whelp!'
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts)
~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which _was
standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
not sure about [the continuous aspect], but
[was standing] sounds a bit as if the stick was a person.
Post by Marius Hancu
`I'll teach you to let the fire out!'
i like the ambiguity of
[I'll teach you to ...]
-- This book will teach you to read music.
-- I'll teach you to read music.



`Now, you'll let the fire out the next time!' -- Is this an Irishism?

I'd translate this into:

[ (if) you'll let the fire out the next time -- and THIS is what
you're going to get]

[ (if) you'll let the fire out the next time -- and you'll remember
that THIS is what you're going to get]


or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiphrasis

[`Now, you'll NOT let the fire out the next time!']

HH
Janet
2017-04-20 21:48:06 UTC
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Post by Hen Hanna
Post by Marius Hancu
Hello,
~~~
[The boy has let the fire die, and the father hates it.]
He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which was
standing behind it.
`I'll teach you to let the fire out!' he said, rolling up his sleeve in
order to give his arm free play.
The little boy cried `O, pa!' and ran whimpering round the table, but
the man followed him and caught him by the coat. The little boy looked
about him wildly but, seeing no way of escape, fell upon his knees.
`Now, you'll let the fire out the next time!' said the man, striking at
him vigorously with the stick. `Take that, you little whelp!'
James Joyce, Dubliners (Counterparts)
~~~
1. "He took a step to the door and seized the walking-stick which _was
standing_ behind it."
Is this particular use of the continuous aspect, "was standing," an
Irishism?
No, it's common usage
Post by Hen Hanna
not sure about [the continuous aspect], but
[was standing] sounds a bit as if the stick was a person.
Not at all. It means the stick was standing on its end, upright.

Janet
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