Discussion:
Incline lift vs Inclinator
(too old to reply)
Dingbat
2016-11-07 14:44:37 UTC
Permalink
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/october/uk-first-as-incline-lift-opens-at-greenford-tube-station
... at Greenford station on the London Underground introduces step free access.

Another review calls it an INCLINATOR even though that is (was?) a trademark.

There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about ...
FUNICULAR* LIFT?

* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to this review.
A funicular railway does the same thing, though it has more than one carriage
vs this lift's single carriage.
Cheryl
2016-11-07 14:48:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/october/uk-first-as-incline-lift-opens-at-greenford-tube-station
... at Greenford station on the London Underground introduces step free access.
Another review calls it an INCLINATOR even though that is (was?) a trademark.
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about ...
FUNICULAR* LIFT?
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to this review.
A funicular railway does the same thing, though it has more than one carriage
vs this lift's single carriage.
There's an incline railway in Niagara Falls.

Wiki says they are "an incline elevator, also known as an incline
platform lift or hillside tram"
--
Cheryl
RH Draney
2016-11-07 16:27:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheryl
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/october/uk-first-as-incline-lift-opens-at-greenford-tube-station
... at Greenford station on the London Underground introduces step free access.
Another review calls it an INCLINATOR even though that is (was?) a trademark.
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about ...
FUNICULAR* LIFT?
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to this review.
A funicular railway does the same thing, though it has more than one carriage
vs this lift's single carriage.
There's an incline railway in Niagara Falls.
Wiki says they are "an incline elevator, also known as an incline
platform lift or hillside tram"
Synchronicity alert: I finally managed to locate proper copies of Ralph
Storey's "Things That Aren't Here Anymore", a video album of past
landmarks in the Los Angeles area...one of the items featured was
"Angels Flight", in which a pair of slanted cablecars went up and down
Bunker Hill for many years...while I remembered that much of the motive
force came from using the downhill-bound car as a counterweight for its
uphill twin, the two cars shared one rail of their track for all but the
middle section of the run:



....r
Mark Brader
2016-11-07 21:09:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cheryl
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about ...
FUNICULAR* LIFT?
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to
this review. A funicular railway does the same thing, though it
has more than one carriage vs this lift's single carriage.
Actually, most funiculars have single cars.
Post by Cheryl
There's an incline railway in Niagara Falls.
Yes, a funicular. "Incline railway", sometimes shortened to "incline",
is the common term for them in North America. Another version is
"inclined plane", seen here:

http://www.inclinedplane.org/

You can actually drive your car onto this one.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Here I sit, ego the size of a planet..."
***@vex.net | --Steve Summit (after Douglas Adams)

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Tony Cooper
2016-11-07 21:21:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Cheryl
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about ...
FUNICULAR* LIFT?
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to
this review. A funicular railway does the same thing, though it
has more than one carriage vs this lift's single carriage.
Actually, most funiculars have single cars.
Post by Cheryl
There's an incline railway in Niagara Falls.
Yes, a funicular. "Incline railway", sometimes shortened to "incline",
is the common term for them in North America. Another version is
http://www.inclinedplane.org/
You can actually drive your car onto this one.
The one I've ridden is the Lookout Mountain Incline Railway in
Chattanooga, Tennessee. It is not the one that is called the
"Chattanooga Choo Choo".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Dingbat
2016-11-08 01:01:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about ...
FUNICULAR* LIFT?
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to
this review. A funicular railway does the same thing, though it
has more than one carriage vs this lift's single carriage.
Actually, most funiculars have single cars.
There seems to be a (mis)conception to the contrary on the Funicular wiki:

The inclined lift, or inclined elevator, occasionally inclinator is not a funicular, since it has only one car carrying payload on the slope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funicular
Mark Brader
2016-11-08 05:39:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Dingbat
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to
this review. A funicular railway does the same thing, though it
has more than one carriage vs this lift's single carriage.
Actually, most funiculars have single cars.
I don't know that wiki.
Post by Dingbat
The inclined lift, or inclined elevator, occasionally inclinator is not
a funicular, since it has only one car carrying payload on the slope.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Funicular
Oh, *that's* what you were getting at. Yes, most funiculars have
*two* single cars. What they don't have, and what I thought you
meant before, is trains of cars. (But there's no technological
reason why they couldn't.)

Wikipedia is rather unreliable as to names of things when usage varies;
often it fixes on the particular usage preferred by a small number of
contributors. When I think of a funicular I normally think of a
cable-hauled railway with two single cars, where one serves as a
counterweight to the other; but some people say that this is properly
called a "balanced funicular" and any vehicle that is cable-hauled to
move up and down a sloped track is a funicular.
--
Mark Brader "Now, let's assume the correct answer will
Toronto eventually be written on this board at the
***@vex.net coordinates (x,y)..." --Randall Munroe

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Charles Bishop
2016-11-08 01:22:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Cheryl
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about ...
FUNICULAR* LIFT?
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to
this review. A funicular railway does the same thing, though it
has more than one carriage vs this lift's single carriage.
Actually, most funiculars have single cars.
Post by Cheryl
There's an incline railway in Niagara Falls.
Yes, a funicular. "Incline railway", sometimes shortened to "incline",
is the common term for them in North America. Another version is
http://www.inclinedplane.org/
You can actually drive your car onto this one.
Why is a blotter like a lazy dog?
--
cahrles
Horace LaBadie
2016-11-07 16:22:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/october/uk-first-as-incl
ine-lift-opens-at-greenford-tube-station
... at Greenford station on the London Underground introduces step free access.
Another review calls it an INCLINATOR even though that is (was?) a trademark.
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about ...
FUNICULAR* LIFT?
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to this review.
A funicular railway does the same thing, though it has more than one carriage
vs this lift's single carriage.
Is there a rope or cable involved in the lift? Otherwise, funicular
doesn't work.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2016-11-07 17:19:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Horace LaBadie
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/october/uk-first-as-incl
ine-lift-opens-at-greenford-tube-station
... at Greenford station on the London Underground introduces step free access.
Another review calls it an INCLINATOR even though that is (was?) a trademark.
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about ...
FUNICULAR* LIFT?
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to this review.
A funicular railway does the same thing, though it has more than one carriage
vs this lift's single carriage.
Is there a rope or cable involved in the lift? Otherwise, funicular
doesn't work.
This image suggests that it is funicular. The rails are smooth. There
is, at the left inside the rails, what appears to be a flat chain, which
could go round a driven "cog" somewhere in the system to raise and lower
the cab. To the right, also between the rails, is a ladder which matches
a vertical ladder that comes down from the rear of the cab. I assume
that the ladder is used for emergency escape, and for maintenance access
to the track, etc.
Loading Image...
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Whiskers
2016-11-07 18:07:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/october/uk-first-as-incline-lift-opens-at-greenford-tube-station
... at Greenford station on the London Underground introduces step free access.
Another review calls it an INCLINATOR even though that is (was?) a trademark.
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about
... FUNICULAR* LIFT?
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to
this review. A funicular railway does the same thing, though it has
more than one carriage vs this lift's single carriage.
Not a first even for London; eg there's an 'inclinator' or 'funicular'
or 'inclined lift' to take pedestrians to and from the 'Millennium
Bridge' and St Paul's Walk (at water level) on the northern bank of the
Thames. It's been there since 2003.

The very first machine for moving people to higher or lower levels was
the 'man engine' used in mines, an arrangement of platforms connected to
reciprocating rods driven by a beam engine or water-wheel. The shafts
of mines are often not vertical so 'inclined lifts' are nothing new.
The railway station sort are I hope safer than the old mine sort!
<Loading Image...>
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Dingbat
2016-11-07 20:57:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Whiskers
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/october/uk-first-as-incline-lift-opens-at-greenford-tube-station
... at Greenford station on the London Underground introduces step free access.
Another review calls it an INCLINATOR even though that is (was?) a trademark.
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about
... FUNICULAR* LIFT?
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to
this review. A funicular railway does the same thing, though it has
more than one carriage vs this lift's single carriage.
Not a first even for London; eg there's an 'inclinator' or 'funicular'
or 'inclined lift' to take pedestrians to and from the 'Millennium
Bridge' and St Paul's Walk (at water level) on the northern bank of the
Thames. It's been there since 2003.
Perhaps it's the first time in London that it's been installed on a former stairwell.
Post by Whiskers
The very first machine for moving people to higher or lower levels was
the 'man engine' used in mines, an arrangement of platforms connected to
reciprocating rods driven by a beam engine or water-wheel. The shafts
of mines are often not vertical so 'inclined lifts' are nothing new.
The railway station sort are I hope safer than the old mine sort!
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_engine#/media/File:Dolcoath_mine_man_engine.jpg>
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2016-11-07 22:30:15 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 7 Nov 2016 12:57:15 -0800 (PST), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Post by Whiskers
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/october/uk-first-as-incline-lift-opens-at-greenford-tube-station
... at Greenford station on the London Underground introduces step free access.
Another review calls it an INCLINATOR even though that is (was?) a trademark.
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about
... FUNICULAR* LIFT?
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to
this review. A funicular railway does the same thing, though it has
more than one carriage vs this lift's single carriage.
Not a first even for London; eg there's an 'inclinator' or 'funicular'
or 'inclined lift' to take pedestrians to and from the 'Millennium
Bridge' and St Paul's Walk (at water level) on the northern bank of the
Thames. It's been there since 2003.
Perhaps it's the first time in London that it's been installed on a former stairwell.
The article referred to says:

The project is a first for London Underground (LU) and the wider UK
rail industry, as the special 'incline' lift travels on a gradient
alongside the escalator and stairs.

That doesn't mean that there aren't earlier installations elsewhere in
Britain.

This is a cable-operated cliff railway at a seaside resort:
http://www.babbacombecliffrailway.co.uk/about-us/the-technology/
Another:
http://www.cliffrailwaylynton.co.uk/how-it-works/

There are many of them on cliffs at the seaside.

This one is inland:
http://www.bridgnorthcliffrailway.co.uk/page/26/technical.htm

Most passenger cliff railways were built at seaside resorts and the
first appeared at Scarborough in 1875. The zenith of cliff railway
construction was in the 1890s and 1900s. The pre-eminent of the
cliff railway engineers during this period was George Croydon Marks.

In 1890 a public meeting was called to discuss a new means of
communication between the High Town and Low Town of Bridgnorth,
avoiding the need to scale the 200 or so steps. The meeting was
reported in the local press, and the matter came to the attention of
Mr. George Croydon Marks. Marks and Mr. George Newnes, M.P.
subsequently laid a proposal before the town council for the
erection of a Patent Cliff Railway, or inclined lift.
Post by Dingbat
Post by Whiskers
The very first machine for moving people to higher or lower levels was
the 'man engine' used in mines, an arrangement of platforms connected to
reciprocating rods driven by a beam engine or water-wheel. The shafts
of mines are often not vertical so 'inclined lifts' are nothing new.
The railway station sort are I hope safer than the old mine sort!
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_engine#/media/File:Dolcoath_mine_man_engine.jpg>
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Charles Bishop
2016-11-08 01:21:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Whiskers
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/october/uk-first-as-
incline-lift-opens-at-greenford-tube-station
... at Greenford station on the London Underground introduces step free access.
Another review calls it an INCLINATOR even though that is (was?) a trademark.
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about
... FUNICULAR* LIFT?
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to
this review. A funicular railway does the same thing, though it has
more than one carriage vs this lift's single carriage.
Not a first even for London; eg there's an 'inclinator' or 'funicular'
or 'inclined lift' to take pedestrians to and from the 'Millennium
Bridge' and St Paul's Walk (at water level) on the northern bank of the
Thames. It's been there since 2003.
Perhaps it's the first time in London that it's been installed on a former stairwell.
In MyAmE the stairwell is the space the stairs are in, especially if
it's an enclosed space. The stairs are a flight of stairs, or . . .?
Post by Dingbat
Post by Whiskers
The very first machine for moving people to higher or lower levels was
the 'man engine' used in mines, an arrangement of platforms connected to
reciprocating rods driven by a beam engine or water-wheel. The shafts
of mines are often not vertical so 'inclined lifts' are nothing new.
The railway station sort are I hope safer than the old mine sort!
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man_engine#/media/File:Dolcoath_mine_man_engi
ne.jpg>
--
charles
Mark Brader
2016-11-08 05:32:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Dingbat
Perhaps it's the first time in London that it's been installed on a former stairwell.
In MyAmE the stairwell is the space the stairs are in, especially if
it's an enclosed space.
Yes, and that's where they put the thing. In the enclosed space where
the stairs used to be. Ranjit should have said "in", not "on".
--
Mark Brader | "Strong typing isn't for weak minds; the argument
Toronto | 'strong typing is for weak minds' is for weak minds."
***@vex.net | -- Guy Harris
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2016-11-08 10:49:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Dingbat
Perhaps it's the first time in London that it's been installed on a former stairwell.
In MyAmE the stairwell is the space the stairs are in, especially if
it's an enclosed space.
Yes, and that's where they put the thing. In the enclosed space where
the stairs used to be. Ranjit should have said "in", not "on".
The photo I url-ed seems to show the stairs still there under the track.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRwhC9xXIAEXz79.jpg
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Mark Brader
2016-11-08 10:56:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Dingbat
Perhaps it's the first time in London that it's been installed on a former stairwell.
In MyAmE the stairwell is the space the stairs are in, especially if
it's an enclosed space.
Yes, and that's where they put the thing. In the enclosed space where
the stairs used to be. Ranjit should have said "in", not "on".
The photo I url-ed seems to show the stairs still there under the track.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRwhC9xXIAEXz79.jpg
Agreed, and it makes sense: why remove them? But that's irrelevant to
the question of what preposition to use with "stairwell".
--
Mark Brader | Republicans... admire the Government of the United States
Toronto | so much that they would like to buy it.
***@vex.net | --Harry Truman, 1948
Mark Brader
2016-11-08 10:57:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
The photo I url-ed seems to show the stairs still there under the track.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRwhC9xXIAEXz79.jpg
Agreed, and it makes sense: why remove them? But that's irrelevant to
the question of what preposition to use with "stairwell".
Oh, but it's relevant to me saying they "used to be" there. Okay, sorry.
--
Mark Brader "In general, it is safe and legal to
Toronto kill your children and their children."
***@vex.net -- POSIX manual, quoted by Thomas Koenig
Robert Bannister
2016-11-10 00:46:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Dingbat
Perhaps it's the first time in London that it's been installed on a former stairwell.
In MyAmE the stairwell is the space the stairs are in, especially if
it's an enclosed space.
Yes, and that's where they put the thing. In the enclosed space where
the stairs used to be. Ranjit should have said "in", not "on".
The photo I url-ed seems to show the stairs still there under the track.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRwhC9xXIAEXz79.jpg
Ah. Now I see. I'm not sure I would call that kind of staircase space a
stair "well", which I would expect to be vertical like any other kind of
well. Usually, in a stairwell, the stairs are either circular or go
round in a more rectangular way in short flights.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2016-11-08 10:57:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Dingbat
Perhaps it's the first time in London that it's been installed on a former stairwell.
In MyAmE the stairwell is the space the stairs are in, especially if
it's an enclosed space.
Yes, and that's where they put the thing. In the enclosed space where
the stairs used to be. Ranjit should have said "in", not "on".
To me, a stairwell is a vertical space with the stairs inside it.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/stairwell

a long, vertical passage through a building around which a set of
stairs is built.

Stairwells:
https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_picture.pl?l=english_uk&rais=1&oiu=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.gettyimages.com%2Fphotos%2Fview-down-a-stairwell-picture-id467062268%3Fs%3D170667a&sp=840e1a986d921f6fc6e095b141f37b2c
or
http://tinyurl.com/qxtmurl

Loading Image...&sp=cbc5d71ec1b75e4d5eff819a3cd1634d
or
http://tinyurl.com/phohgcc
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Charles Bishop
2016-11-08 14:40:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Dingbat
Perhaps it's the first time in London that it's been installed on a
former
stairwell.
In MyAmE the stairwell is the space the stairs are in, especially if
it's an enclosed space.
Yes, and that's where they put the thing. In the enclosed space where
the stairs used to be. Ranjit should have said "in", not "on".
To me, a stairwell is a vertical space with the stairs inside it.
Just for discussion, the space has a horizontal component as well. It
doesn't seem to need mentioning since the important part of a flight of
stairs to to change levels. That it needs a horizontal space doesn't
seem to need mentioning.
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/stairwell
a long, vertical passage through a building around which a set of
stairs is built.
"around which" means the stairs trace a helical(ish) path around a
central core, I think. The core is commonly an elevator shaft. Here the
vertical component is the important one so "shaft" is used.
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_picture.pl?l=english_uk&rais=1&oiu=http%
3A%2F%2Fmedia.gettyimages.com%2Fphotos%2Fview-down-a-stairwell-picture-id46706
2268%3Fs%3D170667a&sp=840e1a986d921f6fc6e095b141f37b2c
or
http://tinyurl.com/qxtmurl
https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_picture.pl?l=english_uk&rais=1&oiu=https
%3A%2F%2Fthumb7.shutterstock.com%2Fdisplay_pic_with_logo%2F3209876%2F470014229
%2Fstock-photo-stairwell-a-image-of-a-stairwell-winding-around-through-to-a-ce
iling-showing-the-design-and-style-470014229.jpg&sp=cbc5d71ec1b75e4d5eff819a3c
d1634d
or
http://tinyurl.com/phohgcc
--
Charles
Robert Bannister
2016-11-10 00:48:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Dingbat
Perhaps it's the first time in London that it's been installed on a
former
stairwell.
In MyAmE the stairwell is the space the stairs are in, especially if
it's an enclosed space.
Yes, and that's where they put the thing. In the enclosed space where
the stairs used to be. Ranjit should have said "in", not "on".
To me, a stairwell is a vertical space with the stairs inside it.
Just for discussion, the space has a horizontal component as well. It
doesn't seem to need mentioning since the important part of a flight of
stairs to to change levels. That it needs a horizontal space doesn't
seem to need mentioning.
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/stairwell
a long, vertical passage through a building around which a set of
stairs is built.
"around which" means the stairs trace a helical(ish) path around a
central core, I think. The core is commonly an elevator shaft. Here the
vertical component is the important one so "shaft" is used.
True: we say lift/elevator shaft, but stair well. But I don't have a
word for the space occupied by a slanting stairway.
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_picture.pl?l=english_uk&rais=1&oiu=http%
3A%2F%2Fmedia.gettyimages.com%2Fphotos%2Fview-down-a-stairwell-picture-id46706
2268%3Fs%3D170667a&sp=840e1a986d921f6fc6e095b141f37b2c
or
http://tinyurl.com/qxtmurl
https://ixquick-proxy.com/do/spg/show_picture.pl?l=english_uk&rais=1&oiu=https
%3A%2F%2Fthumb7.shutterstock.com%2Fdisplay_pic_with_logo%2F3209876%2F470014229
%2Fstock-photo-stairwell-a-image-of-a-stairwell-winding-around-through-to-a-ce
iling-showing-the-design-and-style-470014229.jpg&sp=cbc5d71ec1b75e4d5eff819a3c
d1634d
or
http://tinyurl.com/phohgcc
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Mark Brader
2016-11-10 03:36:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
To me, a stairwell is a vertical space with the stairs inside it.
True: we say lift/elevator shaft, but stair well. But I don't have a
word for the space occupied by a slanting stairway.
Interesting point. I'm okay with "stairwell" for it, though; it still
defines a vertical space where it intersects the floors.
--
Mark Brader | "This man must be very ignorant, for he answers
Toronto | every question he is asked." -- Voltaire
***@vex.net | "'I resemble that remark!'" -- Steve Summit
Robert Bannister
2016-11-10 23:38:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
To me, a stairwell is a vertical space with the stairs inside it.
True: we say lift/elevator shaft, but stair well. But I don't have a
word for the space occupied by a slanting stairway.
Interesting point. I'm okay with "stairwell" for it, though; it still
defines a vertical space where it intersects the floors.
When I was little, I thought the name for that space was the "stair
case". For a long time, I got quite confused when people used
"staircase" to mean "flight of stairs".
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
RH Draney
2016-11-11 12:27:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
To me, a stairwell is a vertical space with the stairs inside it.
True: we say lift/elevator shaft, but stair well. But I don't have a
word for the space occupied by a slanting stairway.
Interesting point. I'm okay with "stairwell" for it, though; it still
defines a vertical space where it intersects the floors.
When I was little, I thought the name for that space was the "stair
case". For a long time, I got quite confused when people used
"staircase" to mean "flight of stairs".
Did you accordingly have trouble with "flight of wine"?...

(I'm still struggling with "pair of stairs", myself)....r
Robert Bannister
2016-11-11 23:13:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by RH Draney
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
To me, a stairwell is a vertical space with the stairs inside it.
True: we say lift/elevator shaft, but stair well. But I don't have a
word for the space occupied by a slanting stairway.
Interesting point. I'm okay with "stairwell" for it, though; it still
defines a vertical space where it intersects the floors.
When I was little, I thought the name for that space was the "stair
case". For a long time, I got quite confused when people used
"staircase" to mean "flight of stairs".
Did you accordingly have trouble with "flight of wine"?...
We don't have a word "winecase", do we? I buy wine in "cartons" or
possibly "boxes" of 12-18 bottles, not cases.
Post by RH Draney
(I'm still struggling with "pair of stairs", myself)....r
I've heard of people keeping their wine under the stairs, though, but
there aren't any stairs in my house.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Peter T. Daniels
2016-11-12 04:07:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
We don't have a word "winecase", do we? I buy wine in "cartons" or
possibly "boxes" of 12-18 bottles, not cases.
A box of wine is something else.
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by RH Draney
(I'm still struggling with "pair of stairs", myself)....r
I've heard of people keeping their wine under the stairs, though, but
there aren't any stairs in my house.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2016-11-12 14:29:30 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 11 Nov 2016 20:07:37 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Robert Bannister
We don't have a word "winecase", do we? I buy wine in "cartons" or
possibly "boxes" of 12-18 bottles, not cases.
A box of wine is something else.
Yes. That in BrE, at least, unless qualified, is a pouch in a cardboard
box.

There are things such as:
https://www.gettingpersonal.co.uk/gifts/personalised-3-bottle-luxury-wooden-wine-box-established.htm?gclid=CMTZ1uW1o9ACFaEL0wodkhEKtA

Personalised 3 Bottle Wooden Wine Box

Which is a presentation box for giving to a couple on "an engagement,
anniversary or wedding day".

A "case of wine" is a set of bottles of wine (6, 12, 20, 24,...) in a
container: the "case".
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by RH Draney
(I'm still struggling with "pair of stairs", myself)....r
I've heard of people keeping their wine under the stairs, though, but
there aren't any stairs in my house.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
2016-11-12 23:11:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Fri, 11 Nov 2016 20:07:37 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Robert Bannister
We don't have a word "winecase", do we? I buy wine in "cartons" or
possibly "boxes" of 12-18 bottles, not cases.
A box of wine is something else.
Yes. That in BrE, at least, unless qualified, is a pouch in a cardboard
box.
Yes, here too. With a push-button spigot that hangs over the edge
of the table.
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
https://www.gettingpersonal.co.uk/gifts/personalised-3-bottle-luxury-wooden-wine-box-established.htm?gclid=CMTZ1uW1o9ACFaEL0wodkhEKtA
Personalised 3 Bottle Wooden Wine Box
Which is a presentation box for giving to a couple on "an engagement,
anniversary or wedding day".
A "case of wine" is a set of bottles of wine (6, 12, 20, 24,...) in a
container: the "case".
I think a case is normally a dozen, since a half-case is a common
quantity to buy, and if there were various sizes, "half a case"
wouldn't be a useful quantity.
Robert Bannister
2016-11-13 22:59:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Fri, 11 Nov 2016 20:07:37 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Robert Bannister
We don't have a word "winecase", do we? I buy wine in "cartons" or
possibly "boxes" of 12-18 bottles, not cases.
A box of wine is something else.
Yes. That in BrE, at least, unless qualified, is a pouch in a cardboard
box.
Yes, here too. With a push-button spigot that hangs over the edge
of the table.
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
https://www.gettingpersonal.co.uk/gifts/personalised-3-bottle-luxury-wooden-wine-box-established.htm?gclid=CMTZ1uW1o9ACFaEL0wodkhEKtA
Personalised 3 Bottle Wooden Wine Box
Which is a presentation box for giving to a couple on "an engagement,
anniversary or wedding day".
A "case of wine" is a set of bottles of wine (6, 12, 20, 24,...) in a
container: the "case".
I think a case is normally a dozen, since a half-case is a common
quantity to buy, and if there were various sizes, "half a case"
wouldn't be a useful quantity.
A number of wineries, here at least, are happy to combine what they call
two "half a cases/cartons" of different wines. Several wines I have
bought over the last couple of years, have the wine inside the box not
only divided into groups of six bottles, but even have pairs of bottles
in their individual cardboard wrappers that can presumably be swapped
around to produce even more mixed offerings. Wine direct from the winery
comes mainly in dozens, but eighteens are not unusual. I don't see how
20 could be packed efficiently, but I'll leave that to mathematicians -
OK, I do know 'five fours are twenty', but I don't know how well that
would travel.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Robert Bannister
2016-11-12 23:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Robert Bannister
We don't have a word "winecase", do we? I buy wine in "cartons" or
possibly "boxes" of 12-18 bottles, not cases.
A box of wine is something else.
If that means what I think it means, i.e. a card container containing a
foil bag of wine, then for some peculiar reason those have always and
illogically called "casks" in Australia.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Richard Tobin
2016-11-12 11:12:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by RH Draney
Post by Robert Bannister
When I was little, I thought the name for that space was the "stair
case". For a long time, I got quite confused when people used
"staircase" to mean "flight of stairs".
Did you accordingly have trouble with "flight of wine"?...
We don't have a word "winecase", do we? I buy wine in "cartons" or
possibly "boxes" of 12-18 bottles, not cases.
"Case" is a (slightly) technical term for a box of (usually) 12
bottles. A box of 6 might be referred to as a half case.

"Flight of wine" is a technical term for a set of wines to be
compared at a wine tasting.

-- Richard
Peter T. Daniels
2016-11-08 14:20:12 UTC
Permalink
[Brader's screwing with the attributions repaired]
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Dingbat
Perhaps it's the first time in London that it's been installed on a former
stairwell.
In MyAmE the stairwell is the space the stairs are in, especially if
it's an enclosed space.
Yes, and that's where they put the thing. In the enclosed space where
the stairs used to be. Ranjit should have said "in", not "on".
It is thus not a former stairwell.
Robert Bannister
2016-11-10 00:42:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Dingbat
Post by Whiskers
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/october/uk-first-as-
incline-lift-opens-at-greenford-tube-station
... at Greenford station on the London Underground introduces step free access.
Another review calls it an INCLINATOR even though that is (was?) a trademark.
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about
... FUNICULAR* LIFT?
* It goes up a former stairwell, at a 45 degree angle according to
this review. A funicular railway does the same thing, though it has
more than one carriage vs this lift's single carriage.
Not a first even for London; eg there's an 'inclinator' or 'funicular'
or 'inclined lift' to take pedestrians to and from the 'Millennium
Bridge' and St Paul's Walk (at water level) on the northern bank of the
Thames. It's been there since 2003.
Perhaps it's the first time in London that it's been installed on a former stairwell.
In MyAmE the stairwell is the space the stairs are in, especially if
it's an enclosed space. The stairs are a flight of stairs, or . . .?
I can't see your problem, although I would have written "_in_ a former
stairwell". I must say I would have thought an inclined stairwell far
more unusual than an inclined lift shaft.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Mark Brader
2016-11-10 03:41:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
I must say I would have thought an inclined stairwell far
more unusual than an inclined lift shaft.
I find it unremarkable; there are lots of inclined stairwells on
the Toronto subway system. They may or may not be cheaper to build,
but a diagonal ceiling over the stairs provides a good place to put
lighting, and utility rooms can often be fitted in the space underneath.

The same applies to the spaces where escalators are installed.

It's different if the floors being connected are close together, or
if there are several of them so that one flight of stairs or escalator
can be placed above another. Then a vertical stairwell makes sense.
--
Mark Brader | "... you're a detective, you like mysteries."
Toronto | "I hate mysteries. What I like are *solutions*."
***@vex.net | --Barbara Paul, "The Apostrophe Thief"

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Robert Bannister
2016-11-10 23:40:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Robert Bannister
I must say I would have thought an inclined stairwell far
more unusual than an inclined lift shaft.
I find it unremarkable;
My comment was related to my belief that "stairwells" are vertical
shafts, which of course means I haven't got a word for the other kind.


there are lots of inclined stairwells on
Post by Mark Brader
the Toronto subway system. They may or may not be cheaper to build,
but a diagonal ceiling over the stairs provides a good place to put
lighting, and utility rooms can often be fitted in the space underneath.
The same applies to the spaces where escalators are installed.
It's different if the floors being connected are close together, or
if there are several of them so that one flight of stairs or escalator
can be placed above another. Then a vertical stairwell makes sense.
--
Robert B. born England a long time ago;
Western Australia since 1972
Mark Brader
2016-11-11 00:32:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Robert Bannister
I must say I would have thought an inclined stairwell far
more unusual than an inclined lift shaft.
I find it unremarkable;
My comment was related to my belief that "stairwells" are vertical
shafts, which of course means I haven't got a word for the other kind.
Ah!
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | Using the wrong software counts as "user error".
***@vex.net | --Julian Lighton
Jerry Friedman
2016-11-07 23:19:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/october/uk-first-as-incline-lift-opens-at-greenford-tube-station
... at Greenford station on the London Underground introduces step free access.
Another review calls it an INCLINATOR even though that is (was?) a trademark.
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about ...
FUNICULAR* LIFT?
...

That would cause too much STS.
--
Jerry Friedman
Whiskers
2016-11-08 13:25:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
A UK FIRST: INCLINE LIFT
https://tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2015/october/uk-first-as-incline-lift-opens-at-greenford-tube-station
... at Greenford station on the London Underground introduces step free access.
Another review calls it an INCLINATOR even though that is (was?) a trademark.
There doesn't seem to be a standard term for such a thing. How about
... FUNICULAR* LIFT?
...
That would cause too much STS.
I like 'funnilift'. Anything that could cheer up tube passengers should
be encouraged.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
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