Discussion:
guy (chump) speaks into the phone -- Hello? Hello? Are you still there ? ?
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Hen Hanna
2018-01-10 23:18:30 UTC
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this response below (re: bedsit room) is so good that
i'll ask another question.


[Have you ever wondered...]

in movies ...... Just a few decades ago (maybe even today),

a person (usu. a guy) is talking
on the phone and the other person (more often a woman)
(out of anger) hangs up.

... and the guy says: --Hello? Hello? Susan? Are you still there?
Susan? Did you just hang up?


This seems very odd, because the guy'd be hearing
the dial tone.

Is there a similar (to bedsit room) historical basis for this?
(like a dial tone was previously very unreliable) ?


Also, this (other person (usu. female) hanging up on me)
happens (to me) only once in 20 years or so.


__________________________________

... and the guy says: --Hello? Hello? Susan? Are you still there?

and does that Stupid! thing with
the hook-switch device

I guess, telephones of 1950s and earlier (?) worked that way?
in (French and) American movies, a single middle-aged man
(think Dirty Harry, or its older version: Frank)
typically eats dinner alone in a diner or a bistro type joint.
I've always felt that this happens 100+ times more
often in movies than in real life....
Depends on time and location.
- men didn't know how to cook
- single people often had a bedroom or bedsit room with very limited cooking facilities (maybe a gas or electric ring in the fireplace)
- such room was often poorly heated or had a coin meter for heating
- until transistor radios became affordable, no entertainment at home
- very few options of ready meals or things that could be heated up
Therefore diners/bistros/pubs offered not only food but somewhere warm and companioniable.
Owain
RH Draney
2018-01-11 02:25:14 UTC
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Post by Hen Hanna
in movies ...... Just a few decades ago (maybe even today),
a person (usu. a guy) is talking
on the phone and the other person (more often a woman)
(out of anger) hangs up.
... and the guy says: --Hello? Hello? Susan? Are you still there?
Susan? Did you just hang up?
This seems very odd, because the guy'd be hearing
the dial tone.
Is there a similar (to bedsit room) historical basis for this?
(like a dial tone was previously very unreliable) ?
What happens when the other person hangs up on a conversation has
differed over location, era, and other factors...sometimes the person
still on the line will hear a dial tone, other times a busy signal or
other sort of alarm tone, and still others just silence...I've even
heard of cases where it was possible to make someone else's phone
unusable by calling them from a payphone in a remote location and then
leaving that phone off-hook; the called party couldn't then hang up to
make another call because the exchange considered the call to still be
in progress....r
Stefan Ram
2018-01-11 02:50:45 UTC
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Post by RH Draney
other sort of alarm tone, and still others just silence...I've even
heard of cases where it was possible to make someone else's phone
unusable by calling them from a payphone in a remote location and then
leaving that phone off-hook; the called party couldn't then hang up to
make another call because the exchange considered the call to still be
in progress....r
I can witness such a case.

In the 70s, in Berlin (West), a call cost 20 pfennigs.
There was no time limitation.

A girl friend was angry with me, so she did this to me.
The phone was blocked during the whole night, until, in
the morning, someone found and hung up that payphone.
Mack A. Damia
2018-01-11 03:14:56 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by RH Draney
other sort of alarm tone, and still others just silence...I've even
heard of cases where it was possible to make someone else's phone
unusable by calling them from a payphone in a remote location and then
leaving that phone off-hook; the called party couldn't then hang up to
make another call because the exchange considered the call to still be
in progress....r
I can witness such a case.
In the 70s, in Berlin (West), a call cost 20 pfennigs.
There was no time limitation.
A girl friend was angry with me, so she did this to me.
The phone was blocked during the whole night, until, in
the morning, someone found and hung up that payphone.
That used to be the case with Ma Bell in the 1950s and '60s.

It would necessitate going to another phone and reporting it to the
operator. The offending party would get a phone call even if his
phone was off the hook. I know this to be the case as it actually
happened to us a couple of times.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-01-11 07:29:59 UTC
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[ ... ]
What happens when the other person hangs up on a conversation has
differed over location, era, and other factors...sometimes the person
still on the line will hear a dial tone, other times a busy signal or
other sort of alarm tone, and still others just silence...I've even
heard of cases where it was possible to make someone else's phone
unusable by calling them from a payphone in a remote location and then
leaving that phone off-hook; the called party couldn't then hang up to
make another call because the exchange considered the call to still be
in progress....r
Does anyone know if this still applies? Everyhere? Or just in some places?

The question arose yesterday when we had one of those irritating calls
where the caller wants to tell me they've found a problem with my
(non-existent) Windows computer. When my wife answers they say nothing
at all for a few seconds and then say "goodbye" and hang up. When that
happened yesterday she wanted to leave our phone off the hook so that
they wouldn't be able to phone anyone else. However, I said that I
didn't think that would work. Which of us was right?
--
athel
Mark Brader
2018-01-11 08:04:54 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by RH Draney
What happens when the other person hangs up on a conversation has
differed over location, era, and other factors...sometimes the person
still on the line will hear a dial tone, other times a busy signal or
other sort of alarm tone, and still others just silence...I've even
heard of cases where it was possible to make someone else's phone
unusable by calling them from a payphone in a remote location and then
leaving that phone off-hook; the called party couldn't then hang up to
make another call because the exchange considered the call to still be
in progress.
Does anyone know if this still applies?
I don't know.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Everyhere? Or just in some places?
It's called "calling-party supervision", and it might be intended as a
feature. (It means that if you answer the incoming call on your bedside
phone, you can hang it up, go downstairs, and pick up the living-room
phone to resume talking in a more comfortable environment without having
to later go back upstairs to hang up the first phone.)

The opposite version is "called-party supervision", where *you* block
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The question arose yesterday when we had one of those irritating calls
where the caller wants to tell me they've found a problem with my
(non-existent) Windows computer. When my wife answers they say nothing
at all for a few seconds and then say "goodbye" and hang up. When that
happened yesterday she wanted to leave our phone off the hook so that
they wouldn't be able to phone anyone else.
But in either case it's also possible that the call will automatically
disconnect 15 seconds or so after the party that doesn't have supervision
hangs up.

That's what we have here: calling-party supervision with a timeout of
about that length. (I've never done the necessary experimentation to
determine the actual time limit.)
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
However, I said that I didn't think that would work. Which of us was right?
I consider the timeout a feature I would expect of any civilized phone
system with either called- or calling-party supervision, but I have no
idea of how widespread it actually is.
--
Mark Brader "I can see the time when every city will have one."
Toronto -- An American mayor's reaction to the
***@vex.net news of the invention of the telephone

My text in this article is in the public domain.
the Omrud
2018-01-11 10:17:13 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The question arose yesterday when we had one of those irritating calls
where the caller wants to tell me they've found a problem with my
(non-existent) Windows computer. When my wife answers they say nothing
at all for a few seconds and then say "goodbye" and hang up. When that
happened yesterday she wanted to leave our phone off the hook so that
they wouldn't be able to phone anyone else. However, I said that I
didn't think that would work. Which of us was right?
I don't know the position in France, but on UK exchanges the caller can
tie up the other party's line by failing to hang up, but that's not the
case if the callee fails to hang up.

AFAIK the above is only true for POTS.
--
David
Richard Tobin
2018-01-11 12:01:43 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The question arose yesterday when we had one of those irritating calls
where the caller wants to tell me they've found a problem with my
(non-existent) Windows computer. When my wife answers they say nothing
at all for a few seconds and then say "goodbye" and hang up. When that
happened yesterday she wanted to leave our phone off the hook so that
they wouldn't be able to phone anyone else. However, I said that I
didn't think that would work. Which of us was right?
I don't know the position in France, but on UK exchanges the caller can
tie up the other party's line by failing to hang up, but that's not the
case if the callee fails to hang up.
It was long possible - certainly since the 1980s - for the callee to
clear the call:

- press the recall button (or tap the receiver rest on phones too old
to have one)
- you will get a dial tone
- put the phone down
- it will start ringing
- ignore it and the ringing will stop after a few seconds
- and the call will have been cleared

But in the last year or so BT have changed things so that merely
putting the phone down clears the call (almost?) immediately, so the
problem no longer arises.

They did this because of the scam in which someone called pretending
to be your bank, and told you to call the bank on their real number to
check. When you did this they kept the line open and simulated the
dial tone and ringing, so that you then believed that you were talking
to the bank when they instructed you to transfer all your money to a
new account.

-- Richard

Snidely
2018-01-11 09:57:48 UTC
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On Wednesday or thereabouts, Hen Hanna asked ...
Post by Hen Hanna
and does that Stupid! thing with
the hook-switch device
it may not bed Stupid! if you are uncertain if the problem is at
your end or at Susan's end. Flashing the switch hook probably won't
repair the connection, even if Susan didn't hang up, but if you then
get a tone you'll know /your/ phone is still working.

Too late be valid for the movie trop, but some modern PBXs (as used in
offices and hotels) use a switchhook flash to access transfer functions
or other advanced features.

/dps
--
Maybe C282Y is simply one of the hangers-on, a groupie following a
future guitar god of the human genome: an allele with undiscovered
virtuosity, currently soloing in obscurity in Mom's garage.
Bradley Wertheim, theAtlantic.com, Jan 10 2013
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