Discussion:
How do you indicate a "windy road" is curvy, not breezy?
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Danny D.
2014-10-28 15:57:33 UTC
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When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?

That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
Mike Barnes
2014-10-28 16:03:49 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Mike Barnes
2014-10-28 16:18:29 UTC
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Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Actually on second thoughts make that a "winding single-track road". But
the main point is "winding", not "windy".

Loading Image...
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Joe Fineman
2014-10-28 18:31:25 UTC
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Post by Mike Barnes
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that you are on a
"one lane windy road", how does the reader know that it's not a
breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the short "i" sound
in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Indeed, the AHD does not even recognize "windy" in that sense. The OED
does, and gives some fairly recent examples. In writing, it is simplest
to run away to "winding". In reporting speech, unless the context makes
the meaning immediately clear, I think I would resort to a macron over
the i; there is no way to solve this problem by means of spelling, short
of intolerable distraction ("winedy"?).
--
--- Joe Fineman ***@verizon.net

||: You don't get anything clean without getting something else :||
||: dirty. :||
Robert Bannister
2014-10-29 00:55:49 UTC
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Post by Joe Fineman
Indeed, the AHD does not even recognize "windy" in that sense. The OED
does, and gives some fairly recent examples. In writing, it is simplest
to run away to "winding". In reporting speech, unless the context makes
the meaning immediately clear, I think I would resort to a macron over
the i; there is no way to solve this problem by means of spelling, short
of intolerable distraction ("winedy"?).
Which unfortunately has the tendency to break down into "wined-y" rather
than "wine-dy".
--
Robert Bannister - Thinking about turning a wined lass.
Katy Jennison
2014-10-29 10:37:38 UTC
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Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joe Fineman
Indeed, the AHD does not even recognize "windy" in that sense. The OED
does, and gives some fairly recent examples. In writing, it is simplest
to run away to "winding". In reporting speech, unless the context makes
the meaning immediately clear, I think I would resort to a macron over
the i; there is no way to solve this problem by means of spelling, short
of intolerable distraction ("winedy"?).
Which unfortunately has the tendency to break down into "wined-y" rather
than "wine-dy".
There you go: cause and effect on one word.
--
Katy Jennison
David D S
2014-10-28 19:12:53 UTC
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Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
That and context would work.

How about a "eowing club". Is it a club in whichn people
do things with boats, or is it one in which tempers are
raised? Again context usually decides.
--
David D S: UK and PR China. (Native BrEng speaker)
Use Reply-To header for email. This email address will be
valid for at least 2 weeks from 2014/10/29 3:11:39
q***@yahoo.com
2014-10-29 03:19:55 UTC
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Post by David D S
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
That and context would work.
How about a "eowing club". Is it a club in whichn people
do things with boats, or is it one in which tempers are
raised? Again context usually decides.
Eoy!
--
John
David D S
2014-10-29 14:32:01 UTC
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Post by David D S
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
That and context would work.
How about a "eowing club". Is it a club in whichn people
do things with boats, or is it one in which tempers are
raised? Again context usually decides.
Eoy!
Serves me right for typing quickly before I had to go
out, doesn't it?
--
David D S: UK and PR China. (Native BrEng speaker)
Use Reply-To header for email. This email address will be
valid for at least 2 weeks from 2014/10/29 22:31:23
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2014-10-29 15:33:26 UTC
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Post by David D S
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
That and context would work.
How about a "eowing club". Is it a club in whichn people
do things with boats, or is it one in which tempers are
raised? Again context usually decides.
Do any of you remember Anthony Buckeridge and "Jennings goes to School"
WYWL[1] in the 1950s? There was an episode when Jennings and his friend
Darbishire wanted to write something for the school mag about a teacher
who wasn't very popular (Mr Wilkins) but they wanted to find some nice
things to write. They found out that he had been an oarsman at
university, and started by writing "When Mr Wilkins was at university
he liked to go for a row in the morning", but decided that that
wouldn't quite do. (Getting even more dubiously relevant, the Jean-Paul
Belmondo character in L'As des As responds to the Gestapo man who had
said "Juif, vous avez l'air" by saying "Non, vous avez l'air juif", and
seeing the horrified look on the Gestapo man's face, adds "Si je vous
dis 'con, vous avez l'air', c'est juste, mais c'est pas français.")

I think I heard Jennings on the radio (or wireless as we were supposed
to call it then) rather than reading the books so I'm not sure how the
row/row ambiguity would have worked.

[1] Looks quite plausible, at least to non-Welsh-speakers, as a Welsh
word, though maybe it would be better as "wywll".
--
athel
Dr Nick
2014-10-30 07:35:51 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by David D S
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
That and context would work.
How about a "eowing club". Is it a club in whichn people
do things with boats, or is it one in which tempers are
raised? Again context usually decides.
Do any of you remember Anthony Buckeridge and "Jennings goes to
School" WYWL[1] in the 1950s? There was an episode when Jennings and
his friend Darbishire wanted to write something for the school mag
about a teacher who wasn't very popular (Mr Wilkins) but they wanted
to find some nice things to write. They found out that he had been an
oarsman at university, and started by writing "When Mr Wilkins was at
university he liked to go for a row in the morning", but decided that
that wouldn't quite do.
I have many of the Jennings books (I pick them up when I see them in
charity shops etc). They still make me giggle out loud.

That story rings a slight bell, but not enough for me to be able to
think about where to look for it.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2014-10-30 16:37:48 UTC
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Post by Dr Nick
[ ... ]
Post by David D S
How about a "eowing club". Is it a club in whichn people
do things with boats, or is it one in which tempers are
raised? Again context usually decides.
Do any of you remember Anthony Buckeridge and "Jennings goes to
School" WYWL[1] in the 1950s? There was an episode when Jennings and
his friend Darbishire wanted to write something for the school mag
about a teacher who wasn't very popular (Mr Wilkins) but they wanted
to find some nice things to write. They found out that he had been an
oarsman at university, and started by writing "When Mr Wilkins was at
university he liked to go for a row in the morning", but decided that
that wouldn't quite do.
I have many of the Jennings books (I pick them up when I see them in
charity shops etc). They still make me giggle out loud.
That story rings a slight bell, but not enough for me to be able to
think about where to look for it.
That's OK. I wasn't asking you to track it down for me. Just wondering
if others remembered Jennings from WWWL.
--
athel
Robert Bannister
2014-10-31 00:36:49 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
That's OK. I wasn't asking you to track it down for me. Just wondering
if others remembered Jennings from WWWL.
I remember the names Jennings and Darbishire, but I cannot remember a
thing about them. I can't even remember whether I knew them from the
radio or from books.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Mike L
2014-10-31 01:25:50 UTC
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On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 08:36:49 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
That's OK. I wasn't asking you to track it down for me. Just wondering
if others remembered Jennings from WWWL.
I remember the names Jennings and Darbishire, but I cannot remember a
thing about them. I can't even remember whether I knew them from the
radio or from books.
Miss Taylor read Jennings aloud to us; but I also remember the radio
version. Just had a look at his Wkp entry: interesting.

"Oh, fish-hooks, Darby!"
--
Mike.
Robert Bannister
2014-10-29 00:52:38 UTC
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Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Mine would prefer a "single lane winding road".
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Charles Bishop
2014-10-29 15:14:45 UTC
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Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Mine would prefer a "single lane winding road".
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?

[1] I may have used this incorrectly
--
charles
Mike Barnes
2014-10-29 16:10:51 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Mine would prefer a "single lane winding road".
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
One lane in total. I posted this link before but it got snipped:

http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/82/9b/ce/single-track-road.jpg
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Charles Bishop
2014-10-29 21:13:35 UTC
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Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Mine would prefer a "single lane winding road".
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/82/9b/ce/single-track-road.j
pg
Lovely. I think road etiquette would take over on straight stretches and
both cars would give way when they meet. What happens of particularly
curvy sections of a single track road?
--
charles
Mike Barnes
2014-10-29 22:30:15 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Mine would prefer a "single lane winding road".
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/82/9b/ce/single-track-road.j
pg
Lovely. I think road etiquette would take over on straight stretches and
both cars would give way when they meet. What happens of particularly
curvy sections of a single track road?
When I first drove in the Scottish Highlands in the 70s, most roads were
single-track, and signed passing places were provided every hundred
metres or so. The passing places are carefully positioned with regard to
bends, humps, and other impediments to vision. Nowadays majors roads are
wider, but many minor roads are still single-track with provided passing
places.

Here's an example picked more or less at random. You're at a passing
place and you can see the next one in the distance. Using your mouse you
can "drive" along the road to get a feel for it:

http://goo.gl/maps/1P5mS

When you see an oncoming vehicle and there's one passing place between
you, the first driver to reach it stops. If there's no passing place,
the driver who passed one most recently goes back to it. Obviously there
are subtleties but that's the basic idea. Also if a car is on your tail
for a while you pull in to let it pass.

In England such roads are comparatively rare and things are not so
organised - drivers muddle through somehow. Here's a single-track road I
drive fairly often, looking quite spacious because it's early spring and
not overgrown, but there are hardly any places to pass:

http://goo.gl/maps/oiOi9
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Tony Cooper
2014-10-30 01:58:02 UTC
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On Wed, 29 Oct 2014 22:30:15 +0000, Mike Barnes
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Mine would prefer a "single lane winding road".
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/82/9b/ce/single-track-road.jpg
Lovely. I think road etiquette would take over on straight stretches and
both cars would give way when they meet. What happens of particularly
curvy sections of a single track road?
When I first drove in the Scottish Highlands in the 70s, most roads were
single-track, and signed passing places were provided every hundred
metres or so. The passing places are carefully positioned with regard to
bends, humps, and other impediments to vision. Nowadays majors roads are
wider, but many minor roads are still single-track with provided passing
places.
Here's an example picked more or less at random. You're at a passing
place and you can see the next one in the distance. Using your mouse you
http://goo.gl/maps/1P5mS
When you see an oncoming vehicle and there's one passing place between
you, the first driver to reach it stops. If there's no passing place,
the driver who passed one most recently goes back to it. Obviously there
are subtleties but that's the basic idea. Also if a car is on your tail
for a while you pull in to let it pass.
In England such roads are comparatively rare and things are not so
organised - drivers muddle through somehow. Here's a single-track road I
drive fairly often, looking quite spacious because it's early spring and
http://goo.gl/maps/oiOi9
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando FL
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2014-10-30 16:44:09 UTC
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Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Mine would prefer a "single lane winding road".
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/82/9b/ce/single-track-road.j
pg
Lovely. I think road etiquette would take over on straight stretches and
both cars would give way when they meet. What happens of particularly
curvy sections of a single track road?
When I first drove in the Scottish Highlands in the 70s, most roads
were single-track, and signed passing places were provided every
hundred metres or so. The passing places are carefully positioned with
regard to bends, humps, and other impediments to vision. Nowadays
majors roads are wider, but many minor roads are still single-track
with provided passing places.
Here's an example picked more or less at random. You're at a passing
place and you can see the next one in the distance. Using your mouse
http://goo.gl/maps/1P5mS
When you see an oncoming vehicle and there's one passing place between
you, the first driver to reach it stops. If there's no passing place,
the driver who passed one most recently goes back to it. Obviously
there are subtleties but that's the basic idea. Also if a car is on
your tail for a while you pull in to let it pass.
If you're beng driven in India then both drivers will play chicken
until the last possible moment before catastrophe, at which point the
more weak-willed will move over. (Fortunately, on the roads I've been
on there has always been somewhere to move over to, not like your
Scottish roads.)
Post by Mike Barnes
In England such roads are comparatively rare and things are not so
organised - drivers muddle through somehow. Here's a single-track road
I drive fairly often, looking quite spacious because it's early spring
http://goo.gl/maps/oiOi9
--
athel
Mike Barnes
2014-10-30 17:33:33 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Mike Barnes
Here's an example picked more or less at random. You're at a passing
place and you can see the next one in the distance. Using your mouse
http://goo.gl/maps/1P5mS
When you see an oncoming vehicle and there's one passing place between
you, the first driver to reach it stops. If there's no passing place,
the driver who passed one most recently goes back to it. Obviously
there are subtleties but that's the basic idea. Also if a car is on
your tail for a while you pull in to let it pass.
If you're beng driven in India then both drivers will play chicken
until the last possible moment before catastrophe, at which point the
more weak-willed will move over. (Fortunately, on the roads I've been
on there has always been somewhere to move over to, not like your
Scottish roads.)
BTDTGTTS. But IME the decision is influenced not just by the relative
wills of the drivers but by the relative sizes of their vehicles. Mopeds
give way to cars; cars to trucks; etc.

One annoying aspect of those Scottish roads is drivers that are *too*
weak-willed. Ideally the driver nearer the passing place slows down so
that the cars arrive at the same time and neither needs to stop. However
many drivers approach at full speed, stop just short of the passing
place, and wait for the other driver to stop *in* the passing place. To
me that's overly defensive and it certainly slows things down.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2014-10-30 17:51:00 UTC
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[ ... ]
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
If you're beng driven in India then both drivers will play chicken
until the last possible moment before catastrophe, at which point the
more weak-willed will move over. (Fortunately, on the roads I've been
on there has always been somewhere to move over to, not like your
Scottish roads.)
BTDTGTTS. But IME the decision is influenced not just by the relative
wills of the drivers but by the relative sizes of their vehicles.
Mopeds give way to cars; cars to trucks; etc.
Here in Marseilles motorbike drivers expect cars to give way to them,
even if they're approaching in the car's lane, and periodically
complain in interviews on television that they don't get enough respect
from car drivers.
--
athel
Robert Bannister
2014-10-31 00:40:23 UTC
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If you're beng driven in India then both drivers will play chicken until
the last possible moment before catastrophe, at which point the more
weak-willed will move over. (Fortunately, on the roads I've been on
there has always been somewhere to move over to, not like your Scottish
roads.)
We had a 29-seater bus, so we weren't prepared to lose out in the
chicken game in India. One truck simply stopped nose-to-nose with us.
When we got out of our bus, he just chucked his keys on the road. After
our ostentatious tea-making didn't get him to move, we finally conceded,
reversed and pulled over.

Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
David D S
2014-10-31 05:15:22 UTC
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Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
If you're beng driven in India then both drivers will play chicken
until the last possible moment before catastrophe, at which point
the more weak-willed will move over. (Fortunately, on the roads
I've been on there has always been somewhere to move over to, not
like your Scottish roads.)
We had a 29-seater bus, so we weren't prepared to lose out in the
chicken game in India. One truck simply stopped nose-to-nose with us.
When we got out of our bus, he just chucked his keys on the road.
After our ostentatious tea-making didn't get him to move, we finally
conceded, reversed and pulled over.
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
God! Does winning this tedious small game mean so much to
some people? What must Indian society be like to make drivers
behave like this? (Or should I say "What must have happened to any
driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?")
--
David D S: UK and PR China. (Native BrEng speaker)
Use Reply-To header for email. This email address will be
valid for at least 2 weeks from 2014/10/31 13:13:30
Stefan Ram
2014-10-31 05:31:51 UTC
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Post by David D S
God! Does winning this tedious small game mean so much to
some people? What must Indian society be like to make drivers
behave like this? (Or should I say "What must have happened to any
driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?")
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
David D S
2014-10-31 06:34:07 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by David D S
God! Does winning this tedious small game mean so much to
some people? What must Indian society be like to make drivers
behave like this? (Or should I say "What must have happened to any
driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?")
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
Well, that is certainly a hypothesis you have for both of us, but I can
assure
you that you cannot definitely prove it for either of us, and in my
case,
you are wrong. It isn't as easy as you think to draw conclusions about
people's motivations, and over 40 years working as a psychologist
has shown me that what I wrote is true.

By thye way, I could easily have accused you of having the same
motivations
--
David D S: UK and PR China. (Native BrEng speaker)
Use Reply-To header for email. This email address will be
valid for at least 2 weeks from 2014/10/31 14:31:36
Bertel Lund Hansen
2014-10-31 12:09:18 UTC
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Post by David D S
Post by Stefan Ram
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
Well, that is certainly a hypothesis you have for both of us,
but I can assure you that you cannot definitely prove it for
either of us, and in my case, you are wrong. It isn't as easy
as you think to draw conclusions about people's motivations,
and over 40 years working as a psychologist has shown me that
what I wrote is true.
By thye way, I could easily have accused you of having the same
motivations
He wouldn't mind, and you would be right.

... Yes, I have comitted the same sin.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Charles Bishop
2014-10-31 14:54:27 UTC
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Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Post by David D S
Post by Stefan Ram
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
Well, that is certainly a hypothesis you have for both of us,
but I can assure you that you cannot definitely prove it for
either of us, and in my case, you are wrong. It isn't as easy
as you think to draw conclusions about people's motivations,
and over 40 years working as a psychologist has shown me that
what I wrote is true.
By thye way, I could easily have accused you of having the same
motivations
He wouldn't mind, and you would be right.
... Yes, I have comitted the same sin.
Me too <sobs>

Perhaps there's a support group. I put this in another post in this
thread, but it's less cluttered here:

Obxkcd: < http://xkcd.com/386/>
--
charles
Bart Dinnissen
2014-10-31 19:17:59 UTC
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On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:54:27 -0700, in alt.usage.english Charles Bishop
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
Post by David D S
Post by Stefan Ram
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
Well, that is certainly a hypothesis you have for both of us,
but I can assure you that you cannot definitely prove it for
either of us, and in my case, you are wrong. It isn't as easy
as you think to draw conclusions about people's motivations,
and over 40 years working as a psychologist has shown me that
what I wrote is true.
By thye way, I could easily have accused you of having the same
motivations
He wouldn't mind, and you would be right.
... Yes, I have comitted the same sin.
Me too <sobs>
There, there.
Post by Charles Bishop
Perhaps there's a support group.
Usenetters Anonymous?
Post by Charles Bishop
I put this in another post in this
Obxkcd: < http://xkcd.com/386/>
Been there, done that, indeed.
--
Bart Dinnissen

"I hate mysteries. They bug me. They need to be solved."
- Felicity Smoak
Bertel Lund Hansen
2014-10-31 22:45:19 UTC
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Post by Bart Dinnissen
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Bertel Lund Hansen
... Yes, I have comitted the same sin.
Me too <sobs>
There, there.
Post by Charles Bishop
Perhaps there's a support group.
Usenetters Anonymous?
How about Usenetters Secret Anonymous?
--
Bertel, Denmark
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2014-11-01 10:44:58 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
[ … ]
Perhaps there's a support group. I put this in another post in this
Obxkcd: < http://xkcd.com/386/>
In my experience of the Internet they will anyway. (To make sense of
this comment you'll need to follow Charles's link and read the alt
text. I don't think the cartoonist ever met Jenn.)
--
athel
Charles Bishop
2014-10-31 14:52:53 UTC
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Post by David D S
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by David D S
God! Does winning this tedious small game mean so much to
some people? What must Indian society be like to make drivers
behave like this? (Or should I say "What must have happened to any
driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?")
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
Well, that is certainly a hypothesis you have for both of us, but I can
assure
you that you cannot definitely prove it for either of us, and in my
case,
you are wrong. It isn't as easy as you think to draw conclusions about
people's motivations, and over 40 years working as a psychologist
has shown me that what I wrote is true.
By thye way, I could easily have accused you of having the same
motivations
And he may possibly admit it, but if he does it would be ironic, I
think. Taking your sentence above, " 'What must have happened to any
driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?' " (I don't
know how to deal with quoting a quoted sentence other than do change the
quote marks as I have), we can get

"What must have happened to any [poster] for whom winning this tiny game
is worth so much?"

(Obxkcd: <http://xkcd.com/386/> )

which seems to apply to some of the discussions here, in all of USENET,
and even in all of human interaction. For the particular trucker, it may
have been that the conditions for him backing up were difficult and
possibly dangerous and he declined to attempt it. It also may be he is
an ass.
--
chalres
FromTheRafters
2014-10-31 11:46:15 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by David D S
God! Does winning this tedious small game mean so much to
some people? What must Indian society be like to make drivers
behave like this? (Or should I say "What must have happened to any
driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?")
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
ObAue: is there a name for the above usage of 'for' twice? Sometimes I
do the same, it is as if I had forgotten the stucture of the beginning
of the sentence by the time I got to the end of the sentence.

Is it redundant to write 'they do it for the same reason you do it for'
or is the second 'for' just a matter of preference?
Charles Bishop
2014-10-31 14:43:16 UTC
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Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by David D S
God! Does winning this tedious small game mean so much to
some people? What must Indian society be like to make drivers
behave like this? (Or should I say "What must have happened to any
driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?")
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
ObAue: is there a name for the above usage of 'for' twice? Sometimes I
do the same, it is as if I had forgotten the stucture of the beginning
of the sentence by the time I got to the end of the sentence.
Is it redundant to write 'they do it for the same reason you do it for'
or is the second 'for' just a matter of preference?
Also, sometimes I write sentences that have ". . .had had. . ." or ". .
.that that. . ." in them. They make sense when I mentally read them, but
they look odd on the page. Of course now, I can't think of a full
example, but I'm hoping to get a hall pass from PTD to ask for help.

Are such possible and maybe correct?
--
charles
David D S
2014-10-31 14:57:40 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by David D S
God! Does winning this tedious small game mean so much to
some people? What must Indian society be like to make drivers
behave like this? (Or should I say "What must have happened to
any >> driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?")
Post by Stefan Ram
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
ObAue: is there a name for the above usage of 'for' twice?
Sometimes I do the same, it is as if I had forgotten the stucture
of the beginning of the sentence by the time I got to the end of
the sentence.
Is it redundant to write 'they do it for the same reason you do it
for' or is the second 'for' just a matter of preference?
Also, sometimes I write sentences that have ". . .had had. . ." or ".
. .that that. . ." in them. They make sense when I mentally read
them, but they look odd on the page. Of course now, I can't think of
a full example, but I'm hoping to get a hall pass from PTD to ask for
help.
Are such possible and maybe correct?
I remember that I had had some examples in my mind at some point, but I
later
forgot them. They also included some examples of that "that that" that
had
been talked about with friends at the same time.
--
David D S: UK and PR China. (Native BrEng speaker)
Use Reply-To header for email. This email address will be
valid for at least 2 weeks from 2014/10/31 22:52:41
Stefan Ram
2014-10-31 16:39:07 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Charles Bishop
Also, sometimes I write sentences that have ". . .had had. . ." or ".
. .that that. . ." in them. They make sense when I mentally read
them, but they look odd on the page. Of course now, I can't think of
a full example, but I'm hoping to get a hall pass from PTD to ask for
help.
Are such possible and maybe correct?
I remember that I had had some examples in my mind at some point, but I
later
forgot them. They also included some examples of that "that that" that
had
been talked about with friends at the same time.
ady to speak of the share he had had in their moonlight walks and (Jane Austen: Emma)
t all at last! Yet every one had had enough, and the youngest Crat (Charles Dickens: A Christmas Carol)
e morning after Lord Lambeth had had with his own frankest critic (Henry James: An International Episode)
s of the night air, however, had had its usual effect the mental (Edgar Allan Poe: Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym)
up my brother. O would you had had her! Some one way, some ano (William Shakespeare: The Tragedy of Othello, the Moor of Venice)
head only said »An Sir Kay had had time to get another skin of s (Mark Twain: A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court)
not pass away from his line, had had the lad sent for, and, in the (Oscar Wilde: A House of Pomegranates)

I were. But if you swear by that that is not, you are not forsworn (William Shakespeare: As You Like It)
I would fain see them meet, that that same young Troyan ass, that (William Shakespeare: The History of Troilus and Cressida)
LAUNCE. That's monstrous. O that that were out! SPEED. »And more w (William Shakespeare: The Two Gentlemen of Verona)
our music, gentlemen. Who is that that spake? PRO. One, lady, if yo (William Shakespeare: The Two Gentlemen of Verona)
always imagined, until now, that that sort of thing belonged to ch (Mark Twain: A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court)
. THER. Nor I, by Pluto; but that that likes not you pleases me bes (William Shakespeare: The History of Troilus and Cressida)
humor of mine, sir, to take that that no man else will. Rich hones (William Shakespeare: As You Like It)
follow next day. It happened that that night, an old gentleman who (Charles Dickens: Barnaby Rudge)
s chair nearer to the fire, »that that woman could ever be pleasant (Charles Dickens: Barnaby Rudge)
ing a very small limp card, »that that is my address, and that I am (Charles Dickens: The Old Curiosity Shop)
thought,« said I, smiling, »that that was a reason for your being (Charles Dickens: The Personal History of David Copperfield)

(I found more hits. To keep the size of the post small,
I have chosen a few.)
Peter T. Daniels
2014-10-31 17:23:35 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by David D S
God! Does winning this tedious small game mean so much to
some people? What must Indian society be like to make drivers
behave like this? (Or should I say "What must have happened to any
driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?")
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
ObAue: is there a name for the above usage of 'for' twice? Sometimes I
do the same, it is as if I had forgotten the stucture of the beginning
of the sentence by the time I got to the end of the sentence.
Is it redundant to write 'they do it for the same reason you do it for'
or is the second 'for' just a matter of preference?
(Yes, that's redundant and indicates inattention.)
Post by Charles Bishop
Also, sometimes I write sentences that have ". . .had had. . ." or ". .
.that that. . ." in them. They make sense when I mentally read them, but
they look odd on the page. Of course now, I can't think of a full
example, but I'm hoping to get a hall pass from PTD to ask for help.
Are such possible and maybe correct?
Of course, and of course. "Had had" will arise whenever there's an
occasion to use the "past perfect" of "have," and "that that" can
be used when a conjunction and a pronoun or demonstrative happen
to be adjacent. Though in that case, it's probably better to change
it to "that which."
Charles Bishop
2014-10-31 20:54:57 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by David D S
God! Does winning this tedious small game mean so much to
some people? What must Indian society be like to make drivers
behave like this? (Or should I say "What must have happened to any
driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?")
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
ObAue: is there a name for the above usage of 'for' twice? Sometimes I
do the same, it is as if I had forgotten the stucture of the beginning
of the sentence by the time I got to the end of the sentence.
Is it redundant to write 'they do it for the same reason you do it for'
or is the second 'for' just a matter of preference?
(Yes, that's redundant and indicates inattention.)
Post by Charles Bishop
Also, sometimes I write sentences that have ". . .had had. . ." or ". .
.that that. . ." in them. They make sense when I mentally read them, but
they look odd on the page. Of course now, I can't think of a full
example, but I'm hoping to get a hall pass from PTD to ask for help.
Are such possible and maybe correct?
Of course, and of course. "Had had" will arise whenever there's an
occasion to use the "past perfect" of "have," and "that that" can
be used when a conjunction and a pronoun or demonstrative happen
to be adjacent. Though in that case, it's probably better to change
it to "that which."
Noted, thanks.
--
charles
Robert Bannister
2014-11-01 02:48:53 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Of course, and of course. "Had had" will arise whenever there's an
occasion to use the "past perfect" of "have," and "that that" can
be used when a conjunction and a pronoun or demonstrative happen
to be adjacent. Though in that case, it's probably better to change
it to "that which."
I have to point out that that is not possible when it's a demonstrative.
Perhaps "this" would do.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
FromTheRafters
2014-10-31 17:39:32 UTC
Reply
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by David D S
God! Does winning this tedious small game mean so much to
some people? What must Indian society be like to make drivers
behave like this? (Or should I say "What must have happened to any
driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?")
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
ObAue: is there a name for the above usage of 'for' twice? Sometimes I
do the same, it is as if I had forgotten the stucture of the beginning
of the sentence by the time I got to the end of the sentence.
Is it redundant to write 'they do it for the same reason you do it for'
or is the second 'for' just a matter of preference?
Also, sometimes I write sentences that have ". . .had had. . ." or ". .
.that that. . ." in them. They make sense when I mentally read them, but
they look odd on the page. Of course now, I can't think of a full
example, but I'm hoping to get a hall pass from PTD to ask for help.
Are such possible and maybe correct?
Yes, I also use double thats and hads but I still think it is correct
even though some like to say otherwise. I've had so-called
spellcheckers that flagged them too, so I suppose that sometimes only
one of them is correct.

Funny, I use the double thats much more than the double hads.

It would not surprise me much to find out that it is always incorrect
for either of them to be double.
Peter T. Daniels
2014-10-31 17:50:53 UTC
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Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Charles Bishop
Also, sometimes I write sentences that have ". . .had had. . ." or ". .
.that that. . ." in them. They make sense when I mentally read them, but
they look odd on the page. Of course now, I can't think of a full
example, but I'm hoping to get a hall pass from PTD to ask for help.
Are such possible and maybe correct?
Yes, I also use double thats and hads but I still think it is correct
even though some like to say otherwise. I've had so-called
spellcheckers that flagged them too, so I suppose that sometimes only
one of them is correct.
Spellcheckers aren't that sophisticated -- they'll mark any repetition
of a word, right or wrong.
Post by FromTheRafters
Funny, I use the double thats much more than the double hads.
It would not surprise me much to find out that it is always incorrect
for either of them to be double.
They're not "double." In each case, the two occurrences are different
words fulfilling different functions in the sentence.
FromTheRafters
2014-10-31 19:10:03 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Charles Bishop
Also, sometimes I write sentences that have ". . .had had. . ." or ". .
.that that. . ." in them. They make sense when I mentally read them, but
they look odd on the page. Of course now, I can't think of a full
example, but I'm hoping to get a hall pass from PTD to ask for help.
Are such possible and maybe correct?
Yes, I also use double thats and hads but I still think it is correct
even though some like to say otherwise. I've had so-called
spellcheckers that flagged them too, so I suppose that sometimes only
one of them is correct.
Spellcheckers aren't that sophisticated -- they'll mark any repetition
of a word, right or wrong.
Post by FromTheRafters
Funny, I use the double thats much more than the double hads.
It would not surprise me much to find out that it is always incorrect
for either of them to be double.
They're not "double." In each case, the two occurrences are different
words fulfilling different functions in the sentence.
I didn't know what else to call them, and IIRC that is what the
so-called spellchecker called it.
Peter T. Daniels
2014-11-01 03:39:00 UTC
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Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Charles Bishop
Also, sometimes I write sentences that have ". . .had had. . ." or ". .
.that that. . ." in them. They make sense when I mentally read them, but
they look odd on the page. Of course now, I can't think of a full
example, but I'm hoping to get a hall pass from PTD to ask for help.
Are such possible and maybe correct?
Yes, I also use double thats and hads but I still think it is correct
even though some like to say otherwise. I've had so-called
spellcheckers that flagged them too, so I suppose that sometimes only
one of them is correct.
Spellcheckers aren't that sophisticated -- they'll mark any repetition
of a word, right or wrong.
Post by FromTheRafters
Funny, I use the double thats much more than the double hads.
It would not surprise me much to find out that it is always incorrect
for either of them to be double.
They're not "double." In each case, the two occurrences are different
words fulfilling different functions in the sentence.
I didn't know what else to call them, and IIRC that is what the
so-called spellchecker called it.
"Repeated words." The spellchecker is keeping you from accidentally typing
typing the same word twice when you didn't mean to.
FromTheRafters
2014-11-01 11:57:42 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Charles Bishop
Also, sometimes I write sentences that have ". . .had had. . ." or ". .
.that that. . ." in them. They make sense when I mentally read them, but
they look odd on the page. Of course now, I can't think of a full
example, but I'm hoping to get a hall pass from PTD to ask for help.
Are such possible and maybe correct?
Yes, I also use double thats and hads but I still think it is correct
even though some like to say otherwise. I've had so-called
spellcheckers that flagged them too, so I suppose that sometimes only
one of them is correct.
Spellcheckers aren't that sophisticated -- they'll mark any repetition
of a word, right or wrong.
Post by FromTheRafters
Funny, I use the double thats much more than the double hads.
It would not surprise me much to find out that it is always incorrect
for either of them to be double.
They're not "double." In each case, the two occurrences are different
words fulfilling different functions in the sentence.
I didn't know what else to call them, and IIRC that is what the
so-called spellchecker called it.
"Repeated words." The spellchecker is keeping you from accidentally typing
typing the same word twice when you didn't mean to.
Ah, okay, it's a 'just in case you didn't mean to' sort of thing. Thank
you very very much.
James Hogg
2014-10-31 23:12:01 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Charles Bishop
Also, sometimes I write sentences that have ". . .had had. . ." or ". .
.that that. . ." in them. They make sense when I mentally read them, but
they look odd on the page. Of course now, I can't think of a full
example, but I'm hoping to get a hall pass from PTD to ask for help.
Are such possible and maybe correct?
Yes, I also use double thats and hads but I still think it is correct
even though some like to say otherwise. I've had so-called
spellcheckers that flagged them too, so I suppose that sometimes only
one of them is correct.
Spellcheckers aren't that sophisticated -- they'll mark any repetition
of a word, right or wrong.
My spellchecker in Word does not flag "had had" or "that that".
--
James
Charles Bishop
2014-10-31 20:53:42 UTC
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Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by David D S
God! Does winning this tedious small game mean so much to
some people? What must Indian society be like to make drivers
behave like this? (Or should I say "What must have happened to any
driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?")
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
ObAue: is there a name for the above usage of 'for' twice? Sometimes I
do the same, it is as if I had forgotten the stucture of the beginning
of the sentence by the time I got to the end of the sentence.
Is it redundant to write 'they do it for the same reason you do it for'
or is the second 'for' just a matter of preference?
Also, sometimes I write sentences that have ". . .had had. . ." or ". .
.that that. . ." in them. They make sense when I mentally read them, but
they look odd on the page. Of course now, I can't think of a full
example, but I'm hoping to get a hall pass from PTD to ask for help.
Are such possible and maybe correct?
Yes, I also use double thats and hads but I still think it is correct
even though some like to say otherwise. I've had so-called
spellcheckers that flagged them too, so I suppose that sometimes only
one of them is correct.
Funny, I use the double thats much more than the double hads.
It would not surprise me much to find out that it is always incorrect
for either of them to be double.
"It would not surprise me much to find out that that construction is
always incorrect. . ."

?
--
charles
Bertel Lund Hansen
2014-10-31 22:55:10 UTC
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Post by FromTheRafters
Funny, I use the double thats much more than the double hads.
It would not surprise me much to find out that it is always incorrect
for either of them to be double.
It would surprise me a lot, and it wouldn't make me change my
ways.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Bertel Lund Hansen
2014-10-31 22:53:16 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Also, sometimes I write sentences that have ". . .had had. . ." or ". .
.that that. . ." in them.
It is often a good rule not to repeat a word, but I don't think
one should be afraid of doing it if it seems the natural way to
express something.

I must admit that I have an autopilot that says and writes "that
which" and never "that that", but "had had" is no problem at all.

I have previously written about the Danish word "om" that many
Danish-teachers warn about not to repeat, while several other
words can be repeated and often are without anybody taking any
notice.

I can make an example where "that that" makes sense, but as I
wrote, it would not appear in my normal writing.

It is often a good rule not to repeat a word, but I don't
think one should be afraid of doing it if it is that that best
brings home the point.

In speach it is not obvious because the first "that" is stressed
and the second one is not.
--
Bertel, Denmark
Jerry Friedman
2014-10-31 22:53:08 UTC
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...
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Stefan Ram
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
ObAue: is there a name for the above usage of 'for' twice? Sometimes I
do the same, it is as if I had forgotten the stucture of the beginning
of the sentence by the time I got to the end of the sentence.
Is it redundant to write 'they do it for the same reason you do it for'
or is the second 'for' just a matter of preference?
Seems to me that according to traditional ideas of grammar, both "for"s
are required. In-for-mally you can get away with omitting the second
one. I have no idea how to search for a prescription on this, though.

When the opera DJ on Santa Fe's community radio station says, "To whom
are we listening to tonight?" that's redundant, but it's a different
construction.
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
2014-11-01 04:14:31 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Stefan Ram
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
ObAue: is there a name for the above usage of 'for' twice? Sometimes I
do the same, it is as if I had forgotten the stucture of the beginning
of the sentence by the time I got to the end of the sentence.
Is it redundant to write 'they do it for the same reason you do it for'
or is the second 'for' just a matter of preference?
Seems to me that according to traditional ideas of grammar, both "for"s
are required. In-for-mally you can get away with omitting the second
one. I have no idea how to search for a prescription on this, though.
...

Fowler calls it an idiom and a freedom that shouldn't be allowed to
lapse. "He took him for his model for the very reason /that/ he ought to
have shunned his example (=for which)." (I've reversed the italics and
roman.)

http://books.google.com/books?id=Z4HI0RQIDK0C&pg=PA639

He then says, "But idiom requires that /which/ should not be so treated".

I wouldn't mind seeing the freedom lapse. In all of Fowler's examples,
I want to supply a word. "Others, watching the fluctuating rates of
exchange with all the anxiety that a mariner consults his barometer in a
storm-menaced sea, are buying securities that can..." A mariner
consults his barometer anxiety?

By the way, in "He took him for his model", "he" was the poet William
Cowper and the model was his school friend Charles Churchill.

http://books.google.com/books?id=wX44AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA601
--
Jerry Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2014-11-01 10:48:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by FromTheRafters
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by David D S
God! Does winning this tedious small game mean so much to
some people? What must Indian society be like to make drivers
behave like this? (Or should I say "What must have happened to any
driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?")
The ironic thing is that they do it for exactly the same
reason that you wrote your above post for: to feel superior!
ObAue: is there a name for the above usage of 'for' twice? Sometimes I
do the same, it is as if I had forgotten the stucture of the beginning
of the sentence by the time I got to the end of the sentence.
Is it redundant to write 'they do it for the same reason you do it for'
or is the second 'for' just a matter of preference?
I think both instances of "for" are legitimate, and hence there is no
redundancy: the first one refers to why they Indian drivers drive as
they do; the second refers to David's reason for posting.
--
athel
Robert Bannister
2014-11-01 02:44:45 UTC
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Post by David D S
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
If you're beng driven in India then both drivers will play chicken
until the last possible moment before catastrophe, at which point
the more weak-willed will move over. (Fortunately, on the roads
I've been on there has always been somewhere to move over to, not
like your Scottish roads.)
We had a 29-seater bus, so we weren't prepared to lose out in the
chicken game in India. One truck simply stopped nose-to-nose with us.
When we got out of our bus, he just chucked his keys on the road.
After our ostentatious tea-making didn't get him to move, we finally
conceded, reversed and pulled over.
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
God! Does winning this tedious small game mean so much to
some people? What must Indian society be like to make drivers
behave like this? (Or should I say "What must have happened to any
driver for whom winning this tiny game is worth so much?")
I think truck drivers are a different breed from the normal population
in many countries.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Wayne Brown
2014-10-31 20:20:53 UTC
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Post by Robert Bannister
If you're beng driven in India then both drivers will play chicken until
the last possible moment before catastrophe, at which point the more
weak-willed will move over. (Fortunately, on the roads I've been on
there has always been somewhere to move over to, not like your Scottish
roads.)
We had a 29-seater bus, so we weren't prepared to lose out in the
chicken game in India. One truck simply stopped nose-to-nose with us.
When we got out of our bus, he just chucked his keys on the road. After
our ostentatious tea-making didn't get him to move, we finally conceded,
reversed and pulled over.
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
In a situation like that, if there were some way to get past the
truck, such as pulling off the road to get around him or backing up to
a crossroads where I could take an alternate route to my destination,
I'd be tempted to leave and take his keys with me (or at least pick them
up and throw them as far as I could before leaving).
--
F. Wayne Brown <***@bellsouth.net>

Þæs ofereode, ðisses swa mæg. ("That passed away, this also can.")
from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)
Jerry Friedman
2014-11-01 03:24:10 UTC
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Post by Wayne Brown
Post by Robert Bannister
If you're beng driven in India then both drivers will play chicken until
the last possible moment before catastrophe, at which point the more
weak-willed will move over. (Fortunately, on the roads I've been on
there has always been somewhere to move over to, not like your Scottish
roads.)
We had a 29-seater bus, so we weren't prepared to lose out in the
chicken game in India. One truck simply stopped nose-to-nose with us.
When we got out of our bus, he just chucked his keys on the road. After
our ostentatious tea-making didn't get him to move, we finally conceded,
reversed and pulled over.
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
In a situation like that, if there were some way to get past the
truck, such as pulling off the road to get around him or backing up to
a crossroads where I could take an alternate route to my destination,
I'd be tempted to leave and take his keys with me (or at least pick them
up and throw them as far as I could before leaving).
I wonder how many bus passengers find that the keys tempt them to pull
the driver out of the cab and back the truck up for him.
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
2014-11-01 03:15:32 UTC
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On 10/29/14 3:30 PM, Mike Barnes wrote:
...
Post by Mike Barnes
When you see an oncoming vehicle and there's one passing place between
you, the first driver to reach it stops. If there's no passing place,
the driver who passed one most recently goes back to it. Obviously there
are subtleties but that's the basic idea. Also if a car is on your tail
for a while you pull in to let it pass.
...

We, of course, pull out to let it pass (or we don't).
--
Jerry Friedman
Katy Jennison
2014-10-29 23:05:55 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Charles Bishop
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/82/9b/ce/single-track-road.j
pg
Lovely. I think road etiquette would take over on straight stretches and
both cars would give way when they meet. What happens of particularly
curvy sections of a single track road?
Huh. That one's got lots of space around it, and oodles of visibility.
When I visit my 103-year-old aunt tomorrow I'll be driving down one of
those which really is winding, and also has high hedges, the sort that
one can't see over the top of. Last time, I met a tractor and trailer.
Guess which one of us backed up a winding road for half a mile.
--
Katy Jennison
Danny D.
2014-11-01 11:54:58 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Lovely. I think road etiquette would take over on straight stretches and
both cars would give way when they meet. What happens of particularly
curvy sections of a single track road?
In our neck of the woods, the road rules are that the vehicle going
UPHILL yields to the one going downhill.

That's due to the inherently less safe activity of backup up downhill
being more dangerous, I'm told, than backing up uphill.
Robert Bannister
2014-10-30 00:58:20 UTC
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Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Mine would prefer a "single lane winding road".
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/04/82/9b/ce/single-track-road.jpg
And I had forgotten some of those narrow roads in Devon where you
sometimes have to reverse a couple of miles when you meet something
larger than your car.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Robert Bannister
2014-10-30 00:56:07 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Mine would prefer a "single lane winding road".
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
One lane in all. We have quite a lot of them in outback Australia.
Usually, when a vehicle is coming the other way, you pull halfway onto
the gravel at the side - both vehicles then get showered by gravel. If
there is no hard shoulder and the oncoming vehicle is a road train, you
are probably dead. I seem to recall a few old, single-lane bridges in
England.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2014-10-30 12:40:09 UTC
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On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 08:56:07 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Mine would prefer a "single lane winding road".
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
One lane in all. We have quite a lot of them in outback Australia.
Usually, when a vehicle is coming the other way, you pull halfway onto
the gravel at the side - both vehicles then get showered by gravel. If
there is no hard shoulder and the oncoming vehicle is a road train, you
are probably dead. I seem to recall a few old, single-lane bridges in
England.
Some of those still exist. They are signposted to indicate which
direction has priority.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Mike Barnes
2014-10-30 15:48:24 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 08:56:07 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Mine would prefer a "single lane winding road".
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
One lane in all. We have quite a lot of them in outback Australia.
Usually, when a vehicle is coming the other way, you pull halfway onto
the gravel at the side - both vehicles then get showered by gravel. If
there is no hard shoulder and the oncoming vehicle is a road train, you
are probably dead. I seem to recall a few old, single-lane bridges in
England.
Some of those still exist. They are signposted to indicate which
direction has priority.
Many single-lane bridges have no priority indication - it's up to
drivers to behave sensibly. E.g: http://goo.gl/maps/IHJ6I
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Charles Bishop
2014-10-30 18:11:10 UTC
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Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 08:56:07 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Mine would prefer a "single lane winding road".
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
One lane in all. We have quite a lot of them in outback Australia.
Usually, when a vehicle is coming the other way, you pull halfway onto
the gravel at the side - both vehicles then get showered by gravel. If
there is no hard shoulder and the oncoming vehicle is a road train, you
are probably dead. I seem to recall a few old, single-lane bridges in
England.
Some of those still exist. They are signposted to indicate which
direction has priority.
Many single-lane bridges have no priority indication - it's up to
drivers to behave sensibly. E.g: http://goo.gl/maps/IHJ6I
In California, there are signs as you approach the bridge: "Narrow
Bridge". They are usually on roads that get little to moderate traffic
and so, as you say, it's up to the drivers to decide who goes first.
Usually the closest one to the bridge in my experience.
--
charles
David Kleinecke
2014-10-30 23:49:46 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
In California, there are signs as you approach the bridge: "Narrow
Bridge". They are usually on roads that get little to moderate traffic
and so, as you say, it's up to the drivers to decide who goes first.
Usually the closest one to the bridge in my experience.
And if you meet another car on a one-lane mountain road the car going
down must back up. It is safer to back up hill than down hill. I am not
at all sure there are any more one-lane mountain roads in California -
but there used to be.
Mike Barnes
2014-10-31 07:27:53 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Charles Bishop
In California, there are signs as you approach the bridge: "Narrow
Bridge". They are usually on roads that get little to moderate traffic
and so, as you say, it's up to the drivers to decide who goes first.
Usually the closest one to the bridge in my experience.
And if you meet another car on a one-lane mountain road the car going
down must back up. It is safer to back up hill than down hill.
I'm very surprised to hear that, because my experience tells me that the
opposite is true. When reversing up hill it's often impossible to see
the road surface, with the weight of the car being tipped forward. This
is especially true if you've just crested the hill, a situation in which
you commonly see another car for the first time.
--
Mike Barnes
Cheshire, England
Robert Bannister
2014-11-01 02:53:43 UTC
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Post by Mike Barnes
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Charles Bishop
In California, there are signs as you approach the bridge: "Narrow
Bridge". They are usually on roads that get little to moderate traffic
and so, as you say, it's up to the drivers to decide who goes first.
Usually the closest one to the bridge in my experience.
And if you meet another car on a one-lane mountain road the car going
down must back up. It is safer to back up hill than down hill.
I'm very surprised to hear that, because my experience tells me that the
opposite is true. When reversing up hill it's often impossible to see
the road surface, with the weight of the car being tipped forward. This
is especially true if you've just crested the hill, a situation in which
you commonly see another car for the first time.
I would agree. I am more used to the car going uphill being the one to
reverse.
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2014-11-01 10:54:57 UTC
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Post by Mike Barnes
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Charles Bishop
In California, there are signs as you approach the bridge: "Narrow
Bridge". They are usually on roads that get little to moderate traffic
and so, as you say, it's up to the drivers to decide who goes first.
Usually the closest one to the bridge in my experience.
And if you meet another car on a one-lane mountain road the car going
down must back up. It is safer to back up hill than down hill.
I'm very surprised to hear that, because my experience tells me that
the opposite is true. When reversing up hill it's often impossible to
see the road surface, with the weight of the car being tipped forward.
This is especially true if you've just crested the hill, a situation in
which you commonly see another car for the first time.
That's interesting, because my experience agrees with David's, and
corresponds with what I was taught when I was learning to drive.
--
athel
Danny D.
2014-11-01 12:03:31 UTC
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Post by Mike Barnes
I'm very surprised to hear that, because my experience tells me that the
opposite is true. When reversing up hill it's often impossible to see
the road surface, with the weight of the car being tipped forward. This
is especially true if you've just crested the hill, a situation in which
you commonly see another car for the first time.
I had thought that also, but, in California, as in the Grand Canyon
footpaths, up has the right of way over down.

Danny D.
2014-11-01 12:02:40 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
And if you meet another car on a one-lane mountain road the car going
down must back up. It is safer to back up hill than down hill. I am not
at all sure there are any more one-lane mountain roads in California -
but there used to be.
On our mountain road, that's EXACTLY what we do.

The definition of a one-lane road, I'm told, is that they *won't* stripe
the middle. They stripe the edges, but not the middle. That's your clue
that it's less than whatever official distance (24 feet perhaps?) which
legally defines a two way road.

Two cars can often squeeze by, but not a car and a truck, so, someone is
always backing up (generally the truck stops, and the car squeezes by off
the edge, or, the car backs up, but we're familiar with the law which is
that the one going down yields to the one going up, just as it is in the
Grand Canyon one-lane footpaths).

Incidentally, when they do stripe a road, they paint BLACK under the
yellow, which, to my knowledge, California is the only state in the US
that does that. (Do they do that in the rest of the world?)
Danny D.
2014-11-01 11:58:27 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
In California, there are signs as you approach the bridge: "Narrow
Bridge". They are usually on roads that get little to moderate traffic
and so, as you say, it's up to the drivers to decide who goes first.
Usually the closest one to the bridge in my experience.
California law, on hills, I'm told, is the vehicle traveling downhill
yields to the one going uphill.

Dunno how they handle bridges though ...
Guy Barry
2014-10-31 10:57:27 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 08:56:07 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Charles Bishop
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
One lane in all. We have quite a lot of them in outback Australia.
Usually, when a vehicle is coming the other way, you pull halfway onto
the gravel at the side - both vehicles then get showered by gravel. If
there is no hard shoulder and the oncoming vehicle is a road train, you
are probably dead.
In Britain they're usually known as "single-track roads".
--
Guy Barry
Charles Bishop
2014-10-31 14:38:32 UTC
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Post by Guy Barry
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 08:56:07 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Charles Bishop
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
One lane in all. We have quite a lot of them in outback Australia.
Usually, when a vehicle is coming the other way, you pull halfway onto
the gravel at the side - both vehicles then get showered by gravel. If
there is no hard shoulder and the oncoming vehicle is a road train, you
are probably dead.
In Britain they're usually known as "single-track roads".
Knew that. What would have helped would have been a description of a
"road train" in case I meet one over here.

I don't want to be dead, and there are a few single lane roads over here.
--
charles
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2014-10-31 15:23:01 UTC
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On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:38:32 -0700, Charles Bishop
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Guy Barry
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 08:56:07 +0800, Robert Bannister
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Charles Bishop
In either of your E's, would they be a road with one lane in toto[1] or
a road with one lane in each direction?
One lane in all. We have quite a lot of them in outback Australia.
Usually, when a vehicle is coming the other way, you pull halfway onto
the gravel at the side - both vehicles then get showered by gravel. If
there is no hard shoulder and the oncoming vehicle is a road train, you
are probably dead.
In Britain they're usually known as "single-track roads".
Knew that. What would have helped would have been a description of a
"road train" in case I meet one over here.
Road train: tractor-trailer + trailers (recurring).

This is a modest-sized one:
Loading Image...

This is more like it!:
Loading Image...

from:
http://www.shangralafamilyfun.com/roadtrain.html
Post by Charles Bishop
I don't want to be dead, and there are a few single lane roads over here.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Charles Bishop
2014-10-31 20:51:46 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:38:32 -0700, Charles Bishop
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Guy Barry
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 08:56:07 +0800, Robert Bannister
[snip-roads and laneage]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Guy Barry
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Robert Bannister
One lane in all. We have quite a lot of them in outback Australia.
Usually, when a vehicle is coming the other way, you pull halfway onto
the gravel at the side - both vehicles then get showered by gravel. If
there is no hard shoulder and the oncoming vehicle is a road train, you
are probably dead.
In Britain they're usually known as "single-track roads".
Knew that. What would have helped would have been a description of a
"road train" in case I meet one over here.
Road train: tractor-trailer + trailers (recurring).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Road_Train_Australia.jpg
http://www.shangralafamilyfun.com/2009/road.jpg
Hoely Moley. When are these used and on what roads? There has been some
attempts to allow trucks to pull more than one trailer behind them, but
so far, I don't think they've been successful
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
http://www.shangralafamilyfun.com/roadtrain.html
[snip]

Charles
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2014-10-31 23:49:15 UTC
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On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:51:46 -0700, Charles Bishop
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:38:32 -0700, Charles Bishop
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Guy Barry
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 08:56:07 +0800, Robert Bannister
[snip-roads and laneage]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Guy Barry
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Robert Bannister
One lane in all. We have quite a lot of them in outback Australia.
Usually, when a vehicle is coming the other way, you pull halfway onto
the gravel at the side - both vehicles then get showered by gravel. If
there is no hard shoulder and the oncoming vehicle is a road train, you
are probably dead.
In Britain they're usually known as "single-track roads".
Knew that. What would have helped would have been a description of a
"road train" in case I meet one over here.
Road train: tractor-trailer + trailers (recurring).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Road_Train_Australia.jpg
http://www.shangralafamilyfun.com/2009/road.jpg
Hoely Moley. When are these used and on what roads?
Australia, and some other places.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train
Post by Charles Bishop
There has been some
attempts to allow trucks to pull more than one trailer behind them, but
so far, I don't think they've been successful
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
http://www.shangralafamilyfun.com/roadtrain.html
[snip]
Charles
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2014-11-01 10:11:14 UTC
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On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 23:49:15 +0000, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 13:51:46 -0700, Charles Bishop
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Fri, 31 Oct 2014 07:38:32 -0700, Charles Bishop
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Guy Barry
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Thu, 30 Oct 2014 08:56:07 +0800, Robert Bannister
[snip-roads and laneage]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Guy Barry
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Robert Bannister
One lane in all. We have quite a lot of them in outback Australia.
Usually, when a vehicle is coming the other way, you pull halfway onto
the gravel at the side - both vehicles then get showered by gravel. If
there is no hard shoulder and the oncoming vehicle is a road train, you
are probably dead.
In Britain they're usually known as "single-track roads".
Knew that. What would have helped would have been a description of a
"road train" in case I meet one over here.
Road train: tractor-trailer + trailers (recurring).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Road_Train_Australia.jpg
http://www.shangralafamilyfun.com/2009/road.jpg
Hoely Moley. When are these used and on what roads?
Australia, and some other places.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train
In AustralianEng the tractor unit is known as a "prime mover".

That term comes from the older concept -

OED:

prime mover, n.

2. An initial source of energy or activity; spec. a machine which
converts a natural source of energy into mechanical energy.

1795 Philos. Trans. (Royal Soc.) 85 189 This experiment confirms
those made by Mr Hunter, in which he recovered the animals by
inflating the lungs... It shews that respiration is the prime
mover of the machine.
1809 Edinb. Rev. 15 146 Suppose a delicate magnetic bar were
made the prime-mover of a watch.
1869 Eng. Mech. 31 Dec. 378/1 Until recently (and even now for
convenience) such machines as windmills, water-wheels, and
steam-engines, were called ‘prime movers’.
....
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Charles Bishop
There has been some
attempts to allow trucks to pull more than one trailer behind them, but
so far, I don't think they've been successful
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
http://www.shangralafamilyfun.com/roadtrain.html
[snip]
Charles
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Don Phillipson
2014-10-29 14:03:09 UTC
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Post by Mike Barnes
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
In MyE that would be a "one-lane winding road".
Another consideration is the default pronunciation of this
vowel which is long i as in find, bind, mind and so on. Thus
"windy" is prima facie the alternate pronunciation, not the
default, a short i as in bin, pinny, etc. This is how readers
"know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one."
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Helen Lacedaemonian
2014-10-28 16:11:19 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
Winding.

Best,
Helen
David D S
2014-10-28 19:15:21 UTC
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Post by Helen Lacedaemonian
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
Winding.
Best,
Helen
I guess one might expect someone to then say "But! But!
How do know that it is a road that has many curves in it,
rather than one which wears you out so much, you struggle
for breath?

I guess context, expectations, and likelihood feature as well.
--
David D S: UK and PR China. (Native BrEng speaker)
Use Reply-To header for email. This email address will be
valid for at least 2 weeks from 2014/10/29 3:13:18
Horace LaBadie
2014-10-28 17:24:54 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
It's a long and WINDING road.
Lewis
2014-10-28 20:34:52 UTC
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Post by Horace LaBadie
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
It's a long and WINDING road.
If you’re a Beatle it is.

Otherwise, a windy road is perfectly acceptable for one with many gentle
curves.
--
I hear hurricanes a-blowing, I know the end is coming soon. I fear
rivers over-flowing. I hear the voice of rage and ruin.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2014-10-28 17:28:43 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
Context will usually do it, but otherwise follow Mike's and Helen's
recommendations.
--
athel
Stefan Ram
2014-10-28 17:36:46 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
The reader does not always have to know beyond doubt in
fiction. But if it should be relevant to know this, the
reader usually will be able to guess it using other parts
of the text.

In non-fiction, one can replace »windy« by »curvy«.
Helen Lacedaemonian
2014-10-28 18:10:33 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
The reader does not always have to know beyond doubt in
fiction. But if it should be relevant to know this, the
reader usually will be able to guess it using other parts
of the text.
In non-fiction, one can replace »windy« by »curvy«.
Or "loquacious."

Best,
Helen
R H Draney
2014-10-28 18:41:33 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
The reader does not always have to know beyond doubt in
fiction. But if it should be relevant to know this, the
reader usually will be able to guess it using other parts
of the text.
In non-fiction, one can replace »windy« by »curvy«.
You are in a maze of windy little passages, all alike....r
--
Me? Sarcastic?
Yeah, right.
Phil Carmody
2014-10-28 19:16:21 UTC
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Post by R H Draney
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
The reader does not always have to know beyond doubt in
fiction. But if it should be relevant to know this, the
reader usually will be able to guess it using other parts
of the text.
In non-fiction, one can replace »windy« by »curvy«.
You are in a maze of windy little passages, all alike....r
Is it "Where would you most likely be found if you were
an enterobacter?" Alex?

Phil
--
The best part of re-inventing the wheel is that you get to pick how
many sides the new one has. -- egcagrac0 on SoylentNews
Mike L
2014-10-30 00:16:22 UTC
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Post by Phil Carmody
Post by R H Draney
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
The reader does not always have to know beyond doubt in
fiction. But if it should be relevant to know this, the
reader usually will be able to guess it using other parts
of the text.
In non-fiction, one can replace »windy« by »curvy«.
You are in a maze of windy little passages, all alike....r
Is it "Where would you most likely be found if you were
an enterobacter?" Alex?
Alex is OK. I have said Delhi.
--
Mike.
Lewis
2014-10-28 20:33:01 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
You do not. A breezy road would be "windswept".
--
'And I suppose you know what sound is made by one hand clapping, do
you?' said the holy man nastily. YES. CL. THE OTHER HAND MAKES THE AP.
Bertel Lund Hansen
2014-10-28 21:26:49 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
He doesn't for many years until somebody asks a related question
in a language group.

Some years ago I played a version of Need for Speed (Hot
Pursuit), and one of the courses was quite stormy - at least that
is what I thought because it was called "The Windy Lane" (or
something similar). Not until there came a question about the
double meaning of "windy" in the Danish language group did I
realize what the course really was called.
--
Bertel, Denmark
John Varela
2014-10-29 01:14:50 UTC
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On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:57:33 UTC, "Danny D."
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
Near here is a stream called "Windy Run" and I have the same
question about it.
--
John Varela
Charles Bishop
2014-10-29 15:11:10 UTC
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Post by John Varela
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:57:33 UTC, "Danny D."
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
Near here is a stream called "Windy Run" and I have the same
question about it.
Perhaps the estimable Mr. Brader could further investigate whether "run"
can be part of a watercourse's name. Won't help with your question but
will add additional info to a previous discussion.
--
charles
Peter T. Daniels
2014-10-29 17:33:03 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by John Varela
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:57:33 UTC, "Danny D."
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
Near here is a stream called "Windy Run" and I have the same
question about it.
Perhaps the estimable Mr. Brader could further investigate whether "run"
can be part of a watercourse's name. Won't help with your question but
will add additional info to a previous discussion.
In the South, the two Battles of Bull Run are known as "First and
Second Manassas," but it did take place at or near Bull Run.

Frank Lloyd Wright's celebrated Fallingwater is built over Bear Run,
in Ohiopyle, Pennsylvania.
Charles Bishop
2014-10-29 21:14:55 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by John Varela
On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 15:57:33 UTC, "Danny D."
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
Near here is a stream called "Windy Run" and I have the same
question about it.
Perhaps the estimable Mr. Brader could further investigate whether "run"
can be part of a watercourse's name. Won't help with your question but
will add additional info to a previous discussion.
In the South, the two Battles of Bull Run are known as "First and
Second Manassas," but it did take place at or near Bull Run.
Frank Lloyd Wright's celebrated Fallingwater is built over Bear Run,
in Ohiopyle, Pennsylvania.
Thanks. For some reason I didn't connect Bull Run as referring to a
stream.
--
charles
Curlytop
2014-11-01 07:43:33 UTC
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Charles Bishop set the following eddies spiralling through the space-time
Post by Charles Bishop
Perhaps the estimable Mr. Brader could further investigate whether "run"
can be part of a watercourse's name. Won't help with your question but
will add additional info to a previous discussion.
"riverrun, past Eve and Adam's, leads by a commodius vicus of recirculation
back to Howth Castle and Environs."
- James Joyce, "Finnegan's Wake"
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly

Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Dr Nick
2014-10-29 07:41:03 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
Just to muddy the waters further, if you are a poet the pronunciation
won't help - the long 'i' form can mean the thing that blows.

When you've got to the bottom of this I'll come in with "winding" a
British canal boat.
Stan Brown
2014-10-29 22:18:16 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
By using the correct word -- "winding".
--
"The difference between the /almost right/ word and the /right/ word
is ... the difference between the lightning-bug and the lightning."
--Mark Twain
Stan Brown, Tompkins County, NY, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com
Robert Bannister
2014-10-30 01:09:25 UTC
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Post by Stan Brown
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
That is, how do you indicate the long "i" versus the
short "i" sound in that sentence?
By using the correct word -- "winding".
If you are hitting me in the diaphragm, are you winding me or winding me up?
--
Robert Bannister - 1940-71 SE England
1972-now W Australia
Stefan Ram
2014-10-31 23:25:23 UTC
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Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
ous in the windy street (particularly [Dickens: Bleak House]
hrough the windy streets like common [Wilde: The Duchess of Padua]
aving with windy arithmetic, made me [Dickens: Great Expectations]
e with the windy marsh view, and maki [Dickens: Great Expectations]
out by his windy boastfulness. In the [Dickens: Hard Times]
by, in his windy manner, »what's this [Dickens: Hard Times]
herein his windy anger was boisterous [Dickens: Hard Times]
built his windy reputation upon lies [Dickens: Hard Times]
eps on the windy side of care. My cou [Shakespeare: Much Ado about Nothing]
praise and windy favours In such acco [Wilde: The Duchess of Padua]
Helen Lacedaemonian
2014-10-31 23:38:46 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
ous in the windy street (particularly [Dickens: Bleak House]
hrough the windy streets like common [Wilde: The Duchess of Padua]
aving with windy arithmetic, made me [Dickens: Great Expectations]
e with the windy marsh view, and maki [Dickens: Great Expectations]
out by his windy boastfulness. In the [Dickens: Hard Times]
by, in his windy manner, »what's this [Dickens: Hard Times]
herein his windy anger was boisterous [Dickens: Hard Times]
built his windy reputation upon lies [Dickens: Hard Times]
eps on the windy side of care. My cou [Shakespeare: Much Ado about Nothing]
praise and windy favours In such acco [Wilde: The Duchess of Padua]
Thanks for the list. None of these uses of "windy" mean "winding," by the way. Even "windy arithmetic," which made me suspicious, comes from the following context:

"And the mere sight of the torment, with his fishy eyes and mouth open, his sandy hair inquisitively on end, and his waistcoat heaving with windy arithmetic, made me vicious in my reticence."

Best,
Helen
Peter T. Daniels
2014-11-01 03:43:25 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Danny D.
When you have a road that curves a lot, and you say that
you are on a "one lane windy road", how does the reader
know that it's not a breezy road, versus a curvy one?
ous in the windy street (particularly [Dickens: Bleak House]
hrough the windy streets like common [Wilde: The Duchess of Padua]
aving with windy arithmetic, made me [Dickens: Great Expectations]
e with the windy marsh view, and maki [Dickens: Great Expectations]
out by his windy boastfulness. In the [Dickens: Hard Times]
by, in his windy manner, »what's this [Dickens: Hard Times]
herein his windy anger was boisterous [Dickens: Hard Times]
built his windy reputation upon lies [Dickens: Hard Times]
eps on the windy side of care. My cou [Shakespeare: Much Ado about Nothing]
praise and windy favours In such acco [Wilde: The Duchess of Padua]
Were you intending to show that even two centuries ago, no one used
"windy" in place of "winding"?
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