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Off the rails again
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Tony Cooper
2017-04-16 15:22:27 UTC
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In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".

I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?

But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.

I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-04-16 15:24:54 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe;
Doesn't "luxe" have to be paired with "de" in your newpaper's English?
Post by Tony Cooper
the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
--
athel
Tony Cooper
2017-04-16 15:29:56 UTC
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On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 17:24:54 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe;
Doesn't "luxe" have to be paired with "de" in your newpaper's English?
No. It is defined as a word of its own:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/luxe

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/luxe
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Janet
2017-04-16 16:06:59 UTC
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In article <***@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
LOL. Few Brits would regard that 50 yr old 1960's suburban train as
"vintage", at least, not in a good way.

But as the Irish sales-patter says, "A lot of our customers being
from the United States have never actually been in a train before, so
are very excited about theur odyssey"

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/5-000-for-an-irish-
train-journey-welcome-aboard-the-emerald-isle-express-1.2805791


It's a pale imitation of this

http://www.belmond.com/royal-scotsman-train/

Janet
Whiskers
2017-04-16 22:01:15 UTC
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Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
LOL. Few Brits would regard that 50 yr old 1960's suburban train as
"vintage", at least, not in a good way.
But as the Irish sales-patter says, "A lot of our customers being
from the United States have never actually been in a train before, so
are very excited about theur odyssey"
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/5-000-for-an-irish-
train-journey-welcome-aboard-the-emerald-isle-express-1.2805791
It's a pale imitation of this
http://www.belmond.com/royal-scotsman-train/
Janet
I can offer some balance to that by mentioning some British friends of
mine who had a jolly good holiday crossing he USA by train. In this
century.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-04-17 07:06:22 UTC
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Post by Whiskers
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
LOL. Few Brits would regard that 50 yr old 1960's suburban train as
"vintage", at least, not in a good way.
But as the Irish sales-patter says, "A lot of our customers being
from the United States have never actually been in a train before, so
are very excited about theur odyssey"
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/5-000-for-an-irish-
train-journey-welcome-aboard-the-emerald-isle-express-1.2805791
It's a pale imitation of this
http://www.belmond.com/royal-scotsman-train/
Janet
I can offer some balance to that by mentioning some British friends of
mine who had a jolly good holiday crossing he USA by train. In this
century.
Doesn't that require you to endure a very long stretch of uninteresting
scenery? In 1961 I went by car from Toronto to Vancouver (not USA, I
know, in case anyone feels like pointing that out). The first part
(until the approach to Winnipeg) was OK, except that there was a sense
of sameness all around Lake Superior (driving from here to Arles, about
100 minutes, takes you through seven very different sorts of scenery).
Likewise, from Calgary to Vancouver was OK. In between were more than
two days' worth of nothing very much. Coming back I decided I couldn't
face going through all that again in a bus, so I flew from Edmonton to
Winnipeg. I just bought a ticket in the airport. When I got back to
Toronto everyone was very surprised that I had done that: lots of
people had told me beforehand that buying a plane ticket in Canada was
just as easy as buying a bus ticket. Apparently they hadn't expected
anyone to believe them.
--
athel
Ross
2017-04-17 08:08:53 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Whiskers
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
LOL. Few Brits would regard that 50 yr old 1960's suburban train as
"vintage", at least, not in a good way.
But as the Irish sales-patter says, "A lot of our customers being
from the United States have never actually been in a train before, so
are very excited about theur odyssey"
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/5-000-for-an-irish-
train-journey-welcome-aboard-the-emerald-isle-express-1.2805791
It's a pale imitation of this
http://www.belmond.com/royal-scotsman-train/
Janet
I can offer some balance to that by mentioning some British friends of
mine who had a jolly good holiday crossing he USA by train. In this
century.
Doesn't that require you to endure a very long stretch of uninteresting
scenery? In 1961 I went by car from Toronto to Vancouver (not USA, I
know, in case anyone feels like pointing that out). The first part
(until the approach to Winnipeg) was OK, except that there was a sense
of sameness all around Lake Superior (driving from here to Arles, about
100 minutes, takes you through seven very different sorts of scenery).
Likewise, from Calgary to Vancouver was OK. In between were more than
two days' worth of nothing very much. Coming back I decided I couldn't
face going through all that again in a bus, so I flew from Edmonton to
Winnipeg. I just bought a ticket in the airport. When I got back to
Toronto everyone was very surprised that I had done that: lots of
people had told me beforehand that buying a plane ticket in Canada was
just as easy as buying a bus ticket. Apparently they hadn't expected
anyone to believe them.
--
athel
Depends what you're looking for. The old CPR three-day trip from Toronto
to Vancouver (which I was lucky enough to take a couple of times) gives
you a sense of the vastness of the country. There was a day of Ontario
nothing-muchness (pine trees, rocks), then the prairie nothing-muchness
(utter flatness, grain elevators on the horizon), then a day winding
through the mountains to the Pacific, which is the money shot. I think
some time in the 70s they discontinued everything but the Rocky Mountain
stretch, which they could easily market to Japanese tourists. But I loved
the long version. I'd do it again if it was available, and probably notice
a lot more detail along the way.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-04-17 09:06:49 UTC
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Post by Ross
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Whiskers
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
LOL. Few Brits would regard that 50 yr old 1960's suburban train as
"vintage", at least, not in a good way.
But as the Irish sales-patter says, "A lot of our customers being
from the United States have never actually been in a train before, so
are very excited about theur odyssey"
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/5-000-for-an-irish-
train-journey-welcome-aboard-the-emerald-isle-express-1.2805791
It's a pale imitation of this
http://www.belmond.com/royal-scotsman-train/
Janet
I can offer some balance to that by mentioning some British friends of
mine who had a jolly good holiday crossing he USA by train. In this
century.
Doesn't that require you to endure a very long stretch of uninteresting
scenery? In 1961 I went by car from Toronto to Vancouver (not USA, I
know, in case anyone feels like pointing that out). The first part
(until the approach to Winnipeg) was OK, except that there was a sense
of sameness all around Lake Superior (driving from here to Arles, about
100 minutes, takes you through seven very different sorts of scenery).
Likewise, from Calgary to Vancouver was OK. In between were more than
two days' worth of nothing very much. Coming back I decided I couldn't
face going through all that again in a bus, so I flew from Edmonton to
Winnipeg. I just bought a ticket in the airport. When I got back to
Toronto everyone was very surprised that I had done that: lots of
people had told me beforehand that buying a plane ticket in Canada was
just as easy as buying a bus ticket. Apparently they hadn't expected
anyone to believe them.
--
athel
Depends what you're looking for. The old CPR three-day trip from Toronto
to Vancouver (which I was lucky enough to take a couple of times) gives
you a sense of the vastness of the country.
Yes, but I got that sense quite quickly. Regina to Moose Jaw would have
been enough.
Post by Ross
There was a day of Ontario
nothing-muchness (pine trees, rocks),
If you want nothing-muchness southern Ontario is better. I once drove
with two other people from Guelph to Chicago. I already knew that there
was nothing much between Toronto and Guelph (apart from the Niagara
escarpment), but I didn't realize that each kilometre from Guelph to
Detroit was going to be more dreary than the previous one. I expected
Michigan to be worse, but to my suprise it was far more scenic.
Post by Ross
then the prairie nothing-muchness
(utter flatness, grain elevators on the horizon), then a day winding
through the mountains to the Pacific, which is the money shot.
Definitely, but it took an awful lot of nothing-muchness to get there.
I didn't mention that I spent a whole day wandering around Regina in
the hope of finding something interesting. The person whose car it was
was attending a convention. He later became a well known psychiatrist
in Toronto, so it was probably a psychiatrists' convention.
Post by Ross
I think
some time in the 70s they discontinued everything but the Rocky Mountain
stretch, which they could easily market to Japanese tourists. But I loved
the long version. I'd do it again if it was available, and probably notice
a lot more detail along the way.
It would be much better by train, I agree. You can wander about in a
train and look at the other passengers. The year before I went by train
from Ostend to Moscow, and found it far more interesting, though there
is a heck of a lot of nothing much between Minsk and Moscow. I'd gladly
do that journey again.
--
athel
Quinn C
2017-04-17 17:00:49 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ross
Depends what you're looking for. The old CPR three-day trip from Toronto
to Vancouver (which I was lucky enough to take a couple of times) gives
you a sense of the vastness of the country.
Yes, but I got that sense quite quickly. Regina to Moose Jaw would have
been enough.
Post by Ross
There was a day of Ontario
nothing-muchness (pine trees, rocks),
If you want nothing-muchness southern Ontario is better. I once drove
with two other people from Guelph to Chicago. I already knew that there
was nothing much between Toronto and Guelph (apart from the Niagara
escarpment), but I didn't realize that each kilometre from Guelph to
Detroit was going to be more dreary than the previous one.
During the 18-hour trip from Moscow to Ulyanovsk, my American
travel-mate asked me if I'd ever been to the US. I denied. He said
that now I didn't need to go, because it looked exactly like this.
He then qualified by adding that he was from Chicago.

You would drive three hours through a succession of pines and
birch swamps, pines and birch swamps, and then stop in a little
village, where children and dogs came running to greet the train,
which was probably their only diversion most days.
--
Democracy means government by the uneducated,
while aristocracy means government by the badly educated.
-- G. K. Chesterton
Mark Brader
2017-04-17 11:07:06 UTC
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Post by Ross
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Doesn't that require you to endure a very long stretch of uninteresting
scenery? In 1961 I went by car from Toronto to Vancouver (not USA, I
know, in case anyone feels like pointing that out). The first part
(until the approach to Winnipeg) was OK, except that there was a sense
of sameness all around Lake Superior (driving from here to Arles, about
100 minutes, takes you through seven very different sorts of scenery).
Likewise, from Calgary to Vancouver was OK. In between were more than
two days' worth of nothing very much...
The trick is to expect and appreciate that. Gives you a sense of scale.
Post by Ross
Depends what you're looking for. The old CPR three-day trip from Toronto
to Vancouver (which I was lucky enough to take a couple of times) gives
you a sense of the vastness of the country.
There, see?
Post by Ross
There was a day of Ontario
nothing-muchness (pine trees, rocks), then the prairie nothing-muchness
(utter flatness, grain elevators on the horizon), then a day winding
through the mountains to the Pacific, which is the money shot. I think
some time in the 70s they discontinued everything but the Rocky Mountain
stretch...
VIA Rail had to discontinue the CPR route due to reduced subsidy, but
they still operate the CNR route two or three times a week, and they
were smart enough to move the ex-CPR passenger cars, which were nicer
than the ex-CNR ones, onto it. (With that fact as justification, they
also transferred the CPR's train name "The Canadian" onto the CNR route.)

Here I'll describe things from west to east rather than east to west.

The trains on both routes used to split into two portions in Northern
Ontario, one to Toronto and the other to Ottawa and Montreal. Today's
"Canadian" only runs to Toronto, though.

The CNR route is Vancouver - Kamloops - Jasper - Edmonton - Saskatoon
- Winnipeg - Sioux Lookout - Capreol - Toronto; the CPR route was
Vancouver - Kamloops - Banff - Calgary - Regina - Winnipeg - Thunder Bay
- Sudbury - Toronto. In each case the Montreal portion split off at
the last place I listed before Toronto.

As far as Kamloops both routes run in parallel, on opposite sides
of the same canyon In fact, these days all trains -- freight and
passenger -- normally use the CNR track in one direction and the
CPR track the other way. So there's nothing to choose between them
as to scenery to that point. From there to Banff or Jasper, I think
the CNR route is scenic (I've done it by car but not by train) while
the CPR route was *more* scenic. The CPR route had a second scenic
advantage in that it ran along the north shore of Lake Superior for
a couple of hours after Thunder Bay,


What Ross is thinking of with his "except" clause is that a separate,
private company -- Rocky Mountaineer Railtours now operates its own
trains that travel only by day. The first day out of Vancouver they
go as far as Kamloops, and then the passengers go to a hotel. On the
second day the train is split into two portions, one to Jasper by the
CNR route and one to Banff (originally to Calgary) by the CPR route.
These trains are marketed as "land cruises" and you can only buy the
packages the company offers, rather than point-to-point tickets.
--
Mark Brader | "But how do you figure out whether the programmer
Toronto | knew what he was doing when you find his code
***@vex.net | after he's gone?" -- Roger Critchlow

My text in this article is in the public domain.
bill van
2017-04-17 18:43:22 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
What Ross is thinking of with his "except" clause is that a separate,
private company -- Rocky Mountaineer Railtours now operates its own
trains that travel only by day. The first day out of Vancouver they
go as far as Kamloops, and then the passengers go to a hotel. On the
second day the train is split into two portions, one to Jasper by the
CNR route and one to Banff (originally to Calgary) by the CPR route.
These trains are marketed as "land cruises" and you can only buy the
packages the company offers, rather than point-to-point tickets.
The cancellation of the southern passenger route was one of Via Rail's
great crimes, in my view. I know that the cost of maintaining both
routes through B.C. was prohibitive, but it was a bloody-minded decision
that means most Canadians can never again afford to ride the train
through some of Canada's most magnificent scenery.

My wife and I rode the Canadian from Vancouver to Calgary a couple of
weeks before the last run, and were lucky enough to wake up at dawn and
get to the dome car in time for the highest part of the Rockies, shortly
after a thick, fresh snowfall.

I don't recall how much we paid for the trip, but it can't have been
more than a couple of hundred dollars each. The commercial operator's
prices for the Rocky Mountaineer now are approximately $3,000 to $6,000
per person depending on the options, one of which is an ocean cruise at
the Vancouver end.
--
bill
Mark Brader
2017-04-17 19:50:56 UTC
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Post by bill van
The cancellation of the southern passenger route was one of Via Rail's
great crimes, in my view. I know that the cost of maintaining both
routes through B.C. was prohibitive, but it was a bloody-minded decision...
I think the blame for that one must be laid on the federal government
of the time<*>. It was their decision to reduce VIA's subsidy to the
point where they could not operate both routes. And canceling the
other route would have left the line from Prince Rupert to Jasper
isolated, so it would probably have had to be closed as well.

<*>I don't remember which party that was. I do know that later, when
the other party got in, they cut VIA's subsidy as well, forcing further
service reductions.
--
Mark Brader "Male got pregnant -- on the first try."
Toronto Newsweek article on high-tech conception
***@vex.net November 30, 1987

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Garrett Wollman
2017-04-17 22:51:18 UTC
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Post by Mark Brader
<*>I don't remember which party that was. I do know that later, when
the other party got in, they cut VIA's subsidy as well, forcing further
service reductions.
Is that not the story of the last 30 years of Canadian policymaking,
regardless of which party is in power? Cut VIA, cut the CBC. Does
the Film Board endure this sort of thing too?

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
Peter Moylan
2017-04-17 23:51:53 UTC
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Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by Mark Brader
<*>I don't remember which party that was. I do know that later, when
the other party got in, they cut VIA's subsidy as well, forcing further
service reductions.
Is that not the story of the last 30 years of Canadian policymaking,
regardless of which party is in power? Cut VIA, cut the CBC. Does
the Film Board endure this sort of thing too?
This sort of thing seems to be common to all Western countries. For
whatever reason, the voters are voting for the party that prefers
short-term profit to long-term good policy, and as a corollary that
means cutting support for public assets. Seeing that, the opposition
party adopts the same philosophy, so that pretty soon there's very
little distinction between the major parties.

One solution to that is to vote for the minor parties, which tend to be
a bit more idealistic and less beholden to big business. Unfortunately,
the minor parties that are benefiting from that observation are, it
seems, the most racist parties.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Cheryl
2017-04-18 10:16:15 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by Mark Brader
<*>I don't remember which party that was. I do know that later, when
the other party got in, they cut VIA's subsidy as well, forcing further
service reductions.
Is that not the story of the last 30 years of Canadian policymaking,
regardless of which party is in power? Cut VIA, cut the CBC. Does
the Film Board endure this sort of thing too?
This sort of thing seems to be common to all Western countries. For
whatever reason, the voters are voting for the party that prefers
short-term profit to long-term good policy, and as a corollary that
means cutting support for public assets. Seeing that, the opposition
party adopts the same philosophy, so that pretty soon there's very
little distinction between the major parties.
One solution to that is to vote for the minor parties, which tend to be
a bit more idealistic and less beholden to big business. Unfortunately,
the minor parties that are benefiting from that observation are, it
seems, the most racist parties.
Cuts such as we've had in Canada seem to be more driven by attempts to
cut expenses and balance the budget or (suspected in the case of CBC
anyway) to prevent government money from being spent on something that
is seen as at the least unnecessary and at the worse as promoting views
held by only some Canadians. Naturally, CBC supporters don't see it this
way, and nor do those who benefit from subsidized railways.

There are certainly cases in which governments support businesses by
moving out of the provision of important services - I think the PPPs
(Public-Private Partnerships) are, or are going to be, as case in point
- but I don't think that's the case with VIA and the CBC.
--
Cheryl
bill van
2017-04-18 00:03:57 UTC
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Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by Mark Brader
<*>I don't remember which party that was. I do know that later, when
the other party got in, they cut VIA's subsidy as well, forcing further
service reductions.
Is that not the story of the last 30 years of Canadian policymaking,
regardless of which party is in power? Cut VIA, cut the CBC. Does
the Film Board endure this sort of thing too?
The Liberals have been known to cut government services, but the
Conservatives when in power cut more services more deeply, especially
since dropping "Progressive" from the party name.
--
bill
Cheryl
2017-04-18 10:27:56 UTC
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Post by bill van
Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by Mark Brader
<*>I don't remember which party that was. I do know that later, when
the other party got in, they cut VIA's subsidy as well, forcing further
service reductions.
Is that not the story of the last 30 years of Canadian policymaking,
regardless of which party is in power? Cut VIA, cut the CBC. Does
the Film Board endure this sort of thing too?
The Liberals have been known to cut government services, but the
Conservatives when in power cut more services more deeply, especially
since dropping "Progressive" from the party name.
Provincially, it's been the PCs who decided to spend an incredible sum
of money on the Lower Churchill in a very controversial attempt to
provide a solid and long-lasting electricity supply, and the Liberals
who reluctantly admitted that it was too late to cancel it but (due to
the financial crisis which they blame on the PCs) are cutting just about
everything else.

But then, the old joke in Newfoundland that the two main parties are
essentially indistinguishable (The Liberal Party is made up of lawyers
and merchants and the Conservative Party is made up of merchants and
lawyers) is probably still true, and none of the minority parties seems
to have convinced anyone that they can run the place at all. The brief
surge in popularity enjoyed the NDP collapsed due to their internal
bickering.
--
Cheryl
Peter Moylan
2017-04-18 11:40:16 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
But then, the old joke in Newfoundland that the two main parties are
essentially indistinguishable (The Liberal Party is made up of lawyers
and merchants and the Conservative Party is made up of merchants and
lawyers) is probably still true, and none of the minority parties seems
to have convinced anyone that they can run the place at all. The brief
surge in popularity enjoyed the NDP collapsed due to their internal
bickering.
The two biggest parties in Australia are the LP (Liberal Party,
theoretically right-wing) and the ALP (Australian Labor Party,
theoretically left-wing). Many people will now tell you that ALP stands
for "Alternative Liberal Party".
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Garrett Wollman
2017-04-18 15:41:32 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
The two biggest parties in Australia are the LP (Liberal Party,
theoretically right-wing) and the ALP (Australian Labor Party,
theoretically left-wing). Many people will now tell you that ALP stands
for "Alternative Liberal Party".
I haven't yet read it, but I'm given to understand that James
Y. Kwak's book ECONOMISM goes some way to explaining this. (The idea
is that there is an ideology that permeates the way "Economics 101" is
taught, which embodies a rigid and incomplete theory of how society
works and a blind faith in the superiority and justness of markets.
Most students, of whatever political inclination, do not go on to
become economists or psychologists and thus never learn all the
caveats or any more nuanced economic theories.)

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
Rich Ulrich
2017-04-19 16:52:41 UTC
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Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by Peter Moylan
The two biggest parties in Australia are the LP (Liberal Party,
theoretically right-wing) and the ALP (Australian Labor Party,
theoretically left-wing). Many people will now tell you that ALP stands
for "Alternative Liberal Party".
I haven't yet read it, but I'm given to understand that James
Y. Kwak's book ECONOMISM goes some way to explaining this. (The idea
is that there is an ideology that permeates the way "Economics 101" is
taught, which embodies a rigid and incomplete theory of how society
works and a blind faith in the superiority and justness of markets.
Most students, of whatever political inclination, do not go on to
become economists or psychologists and thus never learn all the
caveats or any more nuanced economic theories.)
One day fifty years ago, as I drank coffee with friends in the
student union building between classes, a graduate student in
economics explained that the whole undergrad curriculum in
economics was largely a sort of civics class applauding capitalism.
Studying numbers and criticisms seemed to be reserved for graduate
school.

I know that those undergraduates are better educated these days,
but what I don't know is, by how much. I guess there has been a big
improvement if it is only Econ 101 that remains blindly ideological.

Whenever I hear that some Republican congressman has an
undergraduate degree in economics, and he spouts nonsense,
I wonder about his age and his school.
--
Rich Ulrich
Jerry Friedman
2017-04-19 17:28:33 UTC
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Post by Garrett Wollman
Post by Peter Moylan
The two biggest parties in Australia are the LP (Liberal Party,
theoretically right-wing) and the ALP (Australian Labor Party,
theoretically left-wing). Many people will now tell you that ALP stands
for "Alternative Liberal Party".
I haven't yet read it, but I'm given to understand that James
Y. Kwak's book ECONOMISM goes some way to explaining this. (The idea
is that there is an ideology that permeates the way "Economics 101" is
taught, which embodies a rigid and incomplete theory of how society
works and a blind faith in the superiority and justness of markets.
Most students, of whatever political inclination, do not go on to
become economists or psychologists and thus never learn all the
caveats or any more nuanced economic theories.)
I think there's probably some truth to that, but I hope Kwak addresses
the popularity of protectionism.
--
Jerry Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-04-20 14:54:53 UTC
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Post by bill van
Post by Mark Brader
What Ross is thinking of with his "except" clause is that a separate,
private company -- Rocky Mountaineer Railtours now operates its own
trains that travel only by day. The first day out of Vancouver they
go as far as Kamloops, and then the passengers go to a hotel. On the
second day the train is split into two portions, one to Jasper by the
CNR route and one to Banff (originally to Calgary) by the CPR route.
These trains are marketed as "land cruises" and you can only buy the
packages the company offers, rather than point-to-point tickets.
The cancellation of the southern passenger route was one of Via Rail's
great crimes, in my view. I know that the cost of maintaining both
routes through B.C. was prohibitive, but it was a bloody-minded decision
that means most Canadians can never again afford to ride the train
through some of Canada's most magnificent scenery.
My wife and I rode the Canadian from Vancouver to Calgary a couple of
weeks before the last run, and were lucky enough to wake up at dawn and
get to the dome car in time for the highest part of the Rockies, shortly
after a thick, fresh snowfall.
I don't recall how much we paid for the trip, but it can't have been
more than a couple of hundred dollars each. The commercial operator's
prices for the Rocky Mountaineer now are approximately $3,000 to $6,000
per person depending on the options, one of which is an ocean cruise at
the Vancouver end.
Having just checked, I was sad to see that the Pacific Great Eastern
doesn't run any more. I took it from Vancouver to Lillooet and from
Lillooet to Prince George (continuing from there to Fort St John by
bus). The journey along the Fraser Canyon was magnificent. I don't
remember how much it cost, but it was easily affordable. I did wonder
what was "eastern" about it, as it's not in Eastern Canada and Prince
George is not far off due north from Vancouver.
--
athel
bill van
2017-04-20 18:49:13 UTC
Reply
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by bill van
Post by Mark Brader
What Ross is thinking of with his "except" clause is that a separate,
private company -- Rocky Mountaineer Railtours now operates its own
trains that travel only by day. The first day out of Vancouver they
go as far as Kamloops, and then the passengers go to a hotel. On the
second day the train is split into two portions, one to Jasper by the
CNR route and one to Banff (originally to Calgary) by the CPR route.
These trains are marketed as "land cruises" and you can only buy the
packages the company offers, rather than point-to-point tickets.
The cancellation of the southern passenger route was one of Via Rail's
great crimes, in my view. I know that the cost of maintaining both
routes through B.C. was prohibitive, but it was a bloody-minded decision
that means most Canadians can never again afford to ride the train
through some of Canada's most magnificent scenery.
My wife and I rode the Canadian from Vancouver to Calgary a couple of
weeks before the last run, and were lucky enough to wake up at dawn and
get to the dome car in time for the highest part of the Rockies, shortly
after a thick, fresh snowfall.
I don't recall how much we paid for the trip, but it can't have been
more than a couple of hundred dollars each. The commercial operator's
prices for the Rocky Mountaineer now are approximately $3,000 to $6,000
per person depending on the options, one of which is an ocean cruise at
the Vancouver end.
Having just checked, I was sad to see that the Pacific Great Eastern
doesn't run any more. I took it from Vancouver to Lillooet and from
Lillooet to Prince George (continuing from there to Fort St John by
bus). The journey along the Fraser Canyon was magnificent. I don't
remember how much it cost, but it was easily affordable. I did wonder
what was "eastern" about it, as it's not in Eastern Canada and Prince
George is not far off due north from Vancouver.
It was owned by the B.C. government from the early years of the 20th
century. It was renamed BC Rail in 1972; its operations were leased for
99 years to CN (Canadian Nationa) in 2004. Passenger service was
abandoned piece by piece in the late 1990s and early 2000s.

After we moved to Vancouver, we used to take visiting friends and
relatives on a day excursion by train, with the Royal Hudson, a
refurbished steam locomotive, pulling restored wooden passenger cars. It
went from North Vancouver along the scenic route on the mountainous
shore of Howe Sound, and passengers disembarked at Squamish, which had a
small tourist lunch and shopping industry as a result. For several
years, there was the option of taking the return trip on an excursion
boat down Howe Sound that offered on-board salmon barbecues.

It was touristy, but a fine way to entertain the guests for a day. It
was cancelled, regrettably, in 2001.
--
bill
Mark Brader
2017-04-20 19:57:22 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Having just checked, I was sad to see that the Pacific Great Eastern
doesn't run any more... I did wonder > what was "eastern" about it...
You're not the first. Apparently it was named after the Great Eastern
Railway, which ran from London's Liverpool St. station to Cambridge,
Norwich, and many other points in East Anglia.
--
Mark Brader | "... there is no such word as 'impossible' in
Toronto | my dictionary. In fact, everything between
***@vex.net | 'herring' and 'marmalade' appears to be missing."
| -- Dirk Gently (Douglas Adams)
Ross
2017-04-20 20:39:39 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by bill van
Post by Mark Brader
What Ross is thinking of with his "except" clause is that a separate,
private company -- Rocky Mountaineer Railtours now operates its own
trains that travel only by day. The first day out of Vancouver they
go as far as Kamloops, and then the passengers go to a hotel. On the
second day the train is split into two portions, one to Jasper by the
CNR route and one to Banff (originally to Calgary) by the CPR route.
These trains are marketed as "land cruises" and you can only buy the
packages the company offers, rather than point-to-point tickets.
The cancellation of the southern passenger route was one of Via Rail's
great crimes, in my view. I know that the cost of maintaining both
routes through B.C. was prohibitive, but it was a bloody-minded decision
that means most Canadians can never again afford to ride the train
through some of Canada's most magnificent scenery.
My wife and I rode the Canadian from Vancouver to Calgary a couple of
weeks before the last run, and were lucky enough to wake up at dawn and
get to the dome car in time for the highest part of the Rockies, shortly
after a thick, fresh snowfall.
I don't recall how much we paid for the trip, but it can't have been
more than a couple of hundred dollars each. The commercial operator's
prices for the Rocky Mountaineer now are approximately $3,000 to $6,000
per person depending on the options, one of which is an ocean cruise at
the Vancouver end.
Having just checked, I was sad to see that the Pacific Great Eastern
doesn't run any more. I took it from Vancouver to Lillooet and from
Lillooet to Prince George (continuing from there to Fort St John by
bus). The journey along the Fraser Canyon was magnificent. I don't
remember how much it cost, but it was easily affordable. I did wonder
what was "eastern" about it, as it's not in Eastern Canada and Prince
George is not far off due north from Vancouver.
--
athel
Small correction: If it was the PGE you took, you didn't go through the
Fraser Canyon. The two trans-continental lines (CNR & CPR) run through there,
but PGE/BC Rail gets to Lillooet by a route further west through Squamish,
Whistler, etc. Also very scenic, I'm sure. (The trains ran just below the
apartment where my parents used to live; I regret never getting around to
taking the excursion that bill describes.)
Mark Brader
2017-04-20 20:57:09 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ross
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Having just checked, I was sad to see that the Pacific Great Eastern
doesn't run any more. I took it from Vancouver to Lillooet and from
Lillooet to Prince George (continuing from there to Fort St John by
bus). The journey along the Fraser Canyon was magnificent...
Small correction: If it was the PGE you took, you didn't go through the
Fraser Canyon.
Wrong.
Post by Ross
The two trans-continental lines (CNR & CPR) run through there,
Right, as far as Lytton. Then they follow the Thompson Canyon.
Post by Ross
but PGE/BC Rail gets to Lillooet by a route further west through Squamish,
Whistler, etc.
Right. And then *after* Lillooet...

Loading Image...


I made the same mistake when I read Athel's posting, by the way; only
I didn't post the error because I checked the facts first.
--
Mark Brader "Do YOU trust US?"
Toronto "YES!! Well, we try to."
***@vex.net -- A Walk in the Woods, by Lee Blessing

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Ross
2017-04-20 22:09:41 UTC
Reply
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Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ross
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Having just checked, I was sad to see that the Pacific Great Eastern
doesn't run any more. I took it from Vancouver to Lillooet and from
Lillooet to Prince George (continuing from there to Fort St John by
bus). The journey along the Fraser Canyon was magnificent...
Small correction: If it was the PGE you took, you didn't go through the
Fraser Canyon.
Wrong.
Post by Ross
The two trans-continental lines (CNR & CPR) run through there,
Right, as far as Lytton. Then they follow the Thompson Canyon.
Post by Ross
but PGE/BC Rail gets to Lillooet by a route further west through Squamish,
Whistler, etc.
Right. And then *after* Lillooet...
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/021006/f1/nlc003011.1-v6.jpg
I made the same mistake when I read Athel's posting, by the way; only
I didn't post the error because I checked the facts first.
--
Mark Brader "Do YOU trust US?"
Toronto "YES!! Well, we try to."
My text in this article is in the public domain.
OK. I was brought up to use the term in a more restricted sense,
not extending further north than Lillooet. But I see from this
very detailed article that there are much broader uses, so that
Athel's recollection was probably right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Canyon
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-04-21 11:05:27 UTC
Reply
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Post by Ross
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ross
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Having just checked, I was sad to see that the Pacific Great Eastern
doesn't run any more. I took it from Vancouver to Lillooet and from
Lillooet to Prince George (continuing from there to Fort St John by
bus). The journey along the Fraser Canyon was magnificent...
Small correction: If it was the PGE you took, you didn't go through the
Fraser Canyon.
Wrong.
Post by Ross
The two trans-continental lines (CNR & CPR) run through there,
Right, as far as Lytton. Then they follow the Thompson Canyon.
Post by Ross
but PGE/BC Rail gets to Lillooet by a route further west through Squamish,
Whistler, etc.
Right. And then *after* Lillooet...
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/021006/f1/nlc003011.1-v6.jpg
I made the same mistake when I read Athel's posting, by the way; only
I didn't post the error because I checked the facts first.
--
Mark Brader "Do YOU trust US?"
Toronto "YES!! Well, we try to."
My text in this article is in the public domain.
OK. I was brought up to use the term in a more restricted sense,
not extending further north than Lillooet. But I see from this
very detailed article that there are much broader uses, so that
Athel's recollection was probably right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Canyon
I wouldn't swear on it in a court of law. It was, after all, in 1961. I
liked Lillooet much better than Fort St John, not only because it's a
much more interesting place, but also because of the people that I
stayed with. The Anglican Vicar of Lillooet was a worldly sort of chap,
and took me to visit a ruby mine and to see the place where they used
to hang bad guys. The Anglican Vicar of Fort St John corresponded more
with what one expects a vicar to be like.
--
athel
Cheryl
2017-04-21 11:17:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ross
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ross
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Having just checked, I was sad to see that the Pacific Great Eastern
doesn't run any more. I took it from Vancouver to Lillooet and from
Lillooet to Prince George (continuing from there to Fort St John by
bus). The journey along the Fraser Canyon was magnificent...
Small correction: If it was the PGE you took, you didn't go through the
Fraser Canyon.
Wrong.
Post by Ross
The two trans-continental lines (CNR & CPR) run through there,
Right, as far as Lytton. Then they follow the Thompson Canyon.
Post by Ross
but PGE/BC Rail gets to Lillooet by a route further west through Squamish,
Whistler, etc.
Right. And then *after* Lillooet...
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/021006/f1/nlc003011.1-v6.jpg
I made the same mistake when I read Athel's posting, by the way; only
I didn't post the error because I checked the facts first.
--
Mark Brader "Do YOU trust US?"
Toronto "YES!! Well, we try to."
My text in this article is in the public domain.
OK. I was brought up to use the term in a more restricted sense,
not extending further north than Lillooet. But I see from this
very detailed article that there are much broader uses, so that
Athel's recollection was probably right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Canyon
I wouldn't swear on it in a court of law. It was, after all, in 1961. I
liked Lillooet much better than Fort St John, not only because it's a
much more interesting place, but also because of the people that I
stayed with. The Anglican Vicar of Lillooet was a worldly sort of chap,
and took me to visit a ruby mine and to see the place where they used to
hang bad guys. The Anglican Vicar of Fort St John corresponded more with
what one expects a vicar to be like.
Someone with a beard and bad breath instead of breasts?
--
Cheryl
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-04-21 12:03:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Cheryl
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ross
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ross
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Having just checked, I was sad to see that the Pacific Great Eastern
doesn't run any more. I took it from Vancouver to Lillooet and from
Lillooet to Prince George (continuing from there to Fort St John by
bus). The journey along the Fraser Canyon was magnificent...
Small correction: If it was the PGE you took, you didn't go through the
Fraser Canyon.
Wrong.
Post by Ross
The two trans-continental lines (CNR & CPR) run through there,
Right, as far as Lytton. Then they follow the Thompson Canyon.
Post by Ross
but PGE/BC Rail gets to Lillooet by a route further west through Squamish,
Whistler, etc.
Right. And then *after* Lillooet...
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/021006/f1/nlc003011.1-v6.jpg
I made the same mistake when I read Athel's posting, by the way; only
I didn't post the error because I checked the facts first.
--
Mark Brader "Do YOU trust US?"
Toronto "YES!! Well, we try to."
My text in this article is in the public domain.
OK. I was brought up to use the term in a more restricted sense,
not extending further north than Lillooet. But I see from this
very detailed article that there are much broader uses, so that
Athel's recollection was probably right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Canyon
I wouldn't swear on it in a court of law. It was, after all, in 1961. I
liked Lillooet much better than Fort St John, not only because it's a
much more interesting place, but also because of the people that I
stayed with. The Anglican Vicar of Lillooet was a worldly sort of chap,
and took me to visit a ruby mine and to see the place where they used to
hang bad guys. The Anglican Vicar of Fort St John corresponded more with
what one expects a vicar to be like.
Someone with a beard and bad breath instead of breasts?
This was in 1961! In those days vicars never had breasts, and not many
had beards (unless they had been chaplains in the navy). I don't
remember about the bad breath, so probably not. I meant that he was
more obviously religious, and that sort of thing.
--
athel
Cheryl
2017-04-21 12:13:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Cheryl
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ross
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ross
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Having just checked, I was sad to see that the Pacific Great Eastern
doesn't run any more. I took it from Vancouver to Lillooet and from
Lillooet to Prince George (continuing from there to Fort St John by
bus). The journey along the Fraser Canyon was magnificent...
Small correction: If it was the PGE you took, you didn't go through the
Fraser Canyon.
Wrong.
Post by Ross
The two trans-continental lines (CNR & CPR) run through there,
Right, as far as Lytton. Then they follow the Thompson Canyon.
Post by Ross
but PGE/BC Rail gets to Lillooet by a route further west through Squamish,
Whistler, etc.
Right. And then *after* Lillooet...
http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/021006/f1/nlc003011.1-v6.jpg
I made the same mistake when I read Athel's posting, by the way; only
I didn't post the error because I checked the facts first.
--
Mark Brader "Do YOU trust US?"
Toronto "YES!! Well, we try to."
My text in this article is in the public domain.
OK. I was brought up to use the term in a more restricted sense,
not extending further north than Lillooet. But I see from this
very detailed article that there are much broader uses, so that
Athel's recollection was probably right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraser_Canyon
I wouldn't swear on it in a court of law. It was, after all, in 1961. I
liked Lillooet much better than Fort St John, not only because it's a
much more interesting place, but also because of the people that I
stayed with. The Anglican Vicar of Lillooet was a worldly sort of chap,
and took me to visit a ruby mine and to see the place where they used to
hang bad guys. The Anglican Vicar of Fort St John corresponded more with
what one expects a vicar to be like.
Someone with a beard and bad breath instead of breasts?
This was in 1961! In those days vicars never had breasts, and not many
had beards (unless they had been chaplains in the navy). I don't
remember about the bad breath, so probably not. I meant that he was more
obviously religious, and that sort of thing.
i was referring to the Vicar of Dibley, which was written well after 1961.
--
Cheryl
Whiskers
2017-04-17 10:03:09 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Whiskers
Post by Janet
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article
with the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by
private heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per
person for the seven day tour including lodging in five-star
hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
LOL. Few Brits would regard that 50 yr old 1960's suburban train as
"vintage", at least, not in a good way.
But as the Irish sales-patter says, "A lot of our customers being
from the United States have never actually been in a train before,
so are very excited about theur odyssey"
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/5-000-for-an-irish-
train-journey-welcome-aboard-the-emerald-isle-express-1.2805791
It's a pale imitation of this
http://www.belmond.com/royal-scotsman-train/
Janet
I can offer some balance to that by mentioning some British friends
of mine who had a jolly good holiday crossing he USA by train. In
this century.
Doesn't that require you to endure a very long stretch of
uninteresting scenery?
That would be a great novelty for anyone used to British views. But
there are clouds to look at, and wildlife, and things to do on the
train (eat, drink, read, play cards, talk to people ...).
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
In 1961 I went by car from Toronto to Vancouver
(not USA, I know, in case anyone feels like pointing that out). The
first part (until the approach to Winnipeg) was OK, except that there
was a sense of sameness all around Lake Superior (driving from here to
Arles, about 100 minutes, takes you through seven very different sorts
of scenery). Likewise, from Calgary to Vancouver was OK. In between
were more than two days' worth of nothing very much. Coming back I
decided I couldn't face going through all that again in a bus, so I
flew from Edmonton to Winnipeg. I just bought a ticket in the airport.
When I got back to Toronto everyone was very surprised that I had done
that: lots of people had told me beforehand that buying a plane ticket
in Canada was just as easy as buying a bus ticket. Apparently they
hadn't expected anyone to believe them.
I think my friends flew back, or flew out and went back by train. They
also had stop-overs for a day or two in interesting places.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
bill van
2017-04-17 18:33:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Whiskers
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Whiskers
Post by Janet
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article
with the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by
private heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per
person for the seven day tour including lodging in five-star
hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
LOL. Few Brits would regard that 50 yr old 1960's suburban train as
"vintage", at least, not in a good way.
But as the Irish sales-patter says, "A lot of our customers being
from the United States have never actually been in a train before,
so are very excited about theur odyssey"
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/5-000-for-an-irish-
train-journey-welcome-aboard-the-emerald-isle-express-1.2805791
It's a pale imitation of this
http://www.belmond.com/royal-scotsman-train/
Janet
I can offer some balance to that by mentioning some British friends
of mine who had a jolly good holiday crossing he USA by train. In
this century.
Doesn't that require you to endure a very long stretch of
uninteresting scenery?
That would be a great novelty for anyone used to British views. But
there are clouds to look at, and wildlife, and things to do on the
train (eat, drink, read, play cards, talk to people ...).
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
In 1961 I went by car from Toronto to Vancouver
(not USA, I know, in case anyone feels like pointing that out). The
first part (until the approach to Winnipeg) was OK, except that there
was a sense of sameness all around Lake Superior (driving from here to
Arles, about 100 minutes, takes you through seven very different sorts
of scenery). Likewise, from Calgary to Vancouver was OK. In between
were more than two days' worth of nothing very much. Coming back I
decided I couldn't face going through all that again in a bus, so I
flew from Edmonton to Winnipeg. I just bought a ticket in the airport.
When I got back to Toronto everyone was very surprised that I had done
that: lots of people had told me beforehand that buying a plane ticket
in Canada was just as easy as buying a bus ticket. Apparently they
hadn't expected anyone to believe them.
I think my friends flew back, or flew out and went back by train. They
also had stop-overs for a day or two in interesting places.
Canadians by and large think of the bus as the least attractive option
for long-distance travel. It's much slower than flying; less comfortable
than the train, which has larger windows, clean bathrooms and lets you
walk around; and much less convenient than driving, which allows you
stop to eat, rest, sight-see and stop over as you will.

The one advantage of the bus is cost, and most people who travel long
distances by bus in Canada do so for budgetary reasons.

Yes, northern Ontario is a succession of lakes, rocks and trees for a
very long time. The Prairie provinces can also be seen as much of the
same thing for a very long time, but if you've lived there you may have
learned to appreciate the variations in the landscape and the immense
Prairie skies.
--
bill
J. J. Lodder
2017-04-17 09:48:37 UTC
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Post by Whiskers
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
LOL. Few Brits would regard that 50 yr old 1960's suburban train as
"vintage", at least, not in a good way.
But as the Irish sales-patter says, "A lot of our customers being
from the United States have never actually been in a train before, so
are very excited about theur odyssey"
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/5-000-for-an-irish-
train-journey-welcome-aboard-the-emerald-isle-express-1.2805791
It's a pale imitation of this
http://www.belmond.com/royal-scotsman-train/
Janet
I can offer some balance to that by mentioning some British friends of
mine who had a jolly good holiday crossing he USA by train. In this
century.
Michael Portillo has been doing it last year,
(with lots of excursions)
and is reporting it all on BBC,

Jan
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-04-17 12:15:16 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Whiskers
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
LOL. Few Brits would regard that 50 yr old 1960's suburban train as
"vintage", at least, not in a good way.
But as the Irish sales-patter says, "A lot of our customers being
from the United States have never actually been in a train before, so
are very excited about theur odyssey"
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/5-000-for-an-irish-
train-journey-welcome-aboard-the-emerald-isle-express-1.2805791
It's a pale imitation of this
http://www.belmond.com/royal-scotsman-train/
Janet
I can offer some balance to that by mentioning some British friends of
mine who had a jolly good holiday crossing he USA by train. In this
century.
Michael Portillo has been doing it last year,
(with lots of excursions)
and is reporting it all on BBC,
Jan
Yes. The series Great American Railroad Journeys
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Railroad_Journeys

ObAUE: Note "Railroad" in that title. His earlier series in Britain and
Ireland, and then continental Europe had "Railway" in their titles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_British_Railway_Journeys

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Continental_Railway_Journeys
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
J. J. Lodder
2017-04-17 13:52:32 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Whiskers
Post by Janet
@gmail.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
LOL. Few Brits would regard that 50 yr old 1960's suburban train as
"vintage", at least, not in a good way.
But as the Irish sales-patter says, "A lot of our customers being
from the United States have never actually been in a train before, so
are very excited about theur odyssey"
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/5-000-for-an-irish-
train-journey-welcome-aboard-the-emerald-isle-express-1.2805791
It's a pale imitation of this
http://www.belmond.com/royal-scotsman-train/
Janet
I can offer some balance to that by mentioning some British friends of
mine who had a jolly good holiday crossing he USA by train. In this
century.
Michael Portillo has been doing it last year,
(with lots of excursions)
and is reporting it all on BBC,
Jan
Yes. The series Great American Railroad Journeys
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_American_Railroad_Journeys
ObAUE: Note "Railroad" in that title. His earlier series in Britain and
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_British_Railway_Journeys
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Continental_Railway_Journeys
He had the great idea of doing it
with hundred year old guidebooks in hand,
and seeing how much, or how little, had changed,

Jan
Katy Jennison
2017-04-16 16:19:57 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
The OED says it's "now chiefly US" and I'd have omitted the "now
chiefly" were it not that I observe the historical Br instances below,
and that I suspect a few British or Irish travel-agents of continuing to
propagate it.

Most of our "heritage trains" weren't especially "luxe" by 21st-century
standards. It's limited to 50 "guests", so I expect they've changed the
seats somewhat; and I see it's sold out, so there must be at least 50
gullible people out there.

OED:
III. Senses from train n.2 19.
14. To go by train, travel by railway. Usu. with adverbial. Now
chiefly U.S.

a. intr.
1856 Ld. Granville Let. 12 Feb. in Ld. Fitzmaurice Life Granville
(1905) I. vii. 163 After acting as godfather, I trained up to town for
the Committee of Privileges.
1888 Pall Mall Gaz. 2 Apr. 4/2 So exhausted were the men from the
effect of the previous day's ride,..that all trained from Winchester to
Farnham.
1904 L. Woolf Let. 28 Dec. (1990) 69, I leave..Sunday, training all
that day to a place called Anuradhapure & then having to travel two days
in a bullock cart through the jungle.
1944 Billboard 2 Sept. 18/2 Org's officials..are skedded to train in
from New York for the one-day session.
2009 S. W. Olds Super Granny Introd. p. xvi, We are more likely to
drive, bike, train, or fly to visit our grandchildren..than they are to
come to us.
--
Katy Jennison
Mark Brader
2017-04-16 17:46:47 UTC
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I don't know what a "heritage train" is...
Old.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "History will be kind to me, for I intend
***@vex.net to write it." -- Churchill
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-04-16 18:16:50 UTC
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Raw Message
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 11:22:27 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
I think "heritage refers to the "non-modern" rolling stock: steam locos
and older carriages furnished in a historic style.

This blog entry about a visit to Ireland in 2015 includes (*my
emphasis*):
http://brenspeedie.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/3-athenry-castles-trail-revisited.html

From our arrival at Galway’s Ceannt Station where we gazed in awe at
the classical Emerald Isle Express *steam engine and luxurious rail
carriages* with its international clientele that was straight out of
Agatha Christie’s Murder on the Orient Express; to ...

This image shows part of the train:
Loading Image...

The carriage shown belongs to the Railway Preservation Society of
Ireland (RPSI).

This YouTube video shows "EMERALD ISLE EXPLORER, Loco 461 at Athenry on
Sunday 21st June 2015".


Steam Loco 462 belongs to the RPSI:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Preservation_Society_of_Ireland
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
David Kleinecke
2017-04-16 18:43:55 UTC
Reply
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 11:22:27 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
I think "heritage refers to the "non-modern" rolling stock: steam locos
and older carriages furnished in a historic style.
This blog entry about a visit to Ireland in 2015 includes (*my
http://brenspeedie.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/3-athenry-castles-trail-revisited.html
From our arrival at Galway’s Ceannt Station where we gazed in awe at
the classical Emerald Isle Express *steam engine and luxurious rail
carriages* with its international clientele that was straight out of
Agatha Christie’s Murder on the Orient Express; to ...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MnyjDV6dBj8/VaecwhvRNGI/AAAAAAAAKbw/4k7I_4whKMU/s1600/AthenryRailEmeraldExpress.jpg
The carriage shown belongs to the Railway Preservation Society of
Ireland (RPSI).
This YouTube video shows "EMERALD ISLE EXPLORER, Loco 461 at Athenry on
Sunday 21st June 2015".
http://youtu.be/tSm1yDR9oSI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Preservation_Society_of_Ireland
The skunk train between Willits and Fort Bragg is rather
less luxe - but perhaps better scenery.

When I was in New Zealand (South Island) I rode on the NZ
equivalent - pleasant enough but not very exciting.

Back in the 30's we used to run down and wave at the engineer
when a Pacific Central train came by on its way to San Ynez.
The PC, long gone, is now almost forgotten
John Varela
2017-04-16 19:28:22 UTC
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On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 18:43:55 UTC, David Kleinecke
Post by David Kleinecke
Back in the 30's we used to run down and wave at the engineer
when a Pacific Central train came by on its way to San Ynez.
The PC, long gone, is now almost forgotten
Did you ever put a penny on the track for the train to roll over?

Was that really the Pacific Central or was it the Central Pacific?
And shouldn't that be Santa Ynez?
--
John Varela
David Kleinecke
2017-04-16 22:25:52 UTC
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Post by John Varela
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 18:43:55 UTC, David Kleinecke
Post by David Kleinecke
Back in the 30's we used to run down and wave at the engineer
when a Pacific Central train came by on its way to San Ynez.
The PC, long gone, is now almost forgotten
Did you ever put a penny on the track for the train to roll over?
Was that really the Pacific Central or was it the Central Pacific?
And shouldn't that be Santa Ynez?
--
John Varela
You're right about Santa Ynez - my bad. I was also wrong about
the railroad name. It's "Pacific Coast". Wikipedia knows about
it. We always called it the "Pea See" and I expanded wrong. And
Wikipedia says it went to Los Olivos not Santa Ynez. Well -they
are close together. Wikipedia seems be necessary these days to
keep my memory under control.

And I have to admit I never tried the penny trick.
GordonD
2017-04-17 09:20:19 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 11:22:27 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article
with the headline "Training in Ireland".
Pub crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home
when legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on
the Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by
private heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312
per person for the seven day tour including lodging in five-star
hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb
(this meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging"
when they are "passengering" on this tour.
I think "heritage refers to the "non-modern" rolling stock: steam
locos and older carriages furnished in a historic style.
This blog entry about a visit to Ireland in 2015 includes (*my
http://brenspeedie.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/3-athenry-castles-trail-revisited.html
From our arrival at Galway’s Ceannt Station where we gazed in awe at
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
the classical Emerald Isle Express *steam engine and luxurious
rail carriages* with its international clientele that was straight
out of Agatha Christie’s Murder on the Orient Express; to ...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MnyjDV6dBj8/VaecwhvRNGI/AAAAAAAAKbw/4k7I_4whKMU/s1600/AthenryRailEmeraldExpress.jpg
The carriage shown belongs to the Railway Preservation Society of
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Ireland (RPSI).
This YouTube video shows "EMERALD ISLE EXPLORER, Loco 461 at
Athenry on Sunday 21st June 2015".
http://youtu.be/tSm1yDR9oSI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Preservation_Society_of_Ireland
The skunk train between Willits and Fort Bragg is rather less luxe -
but perhaps better scenery.
When I was in New Zealand (South Island) I rode on the NZ equivalent
- pleasant enough but not very exciting.
Back in the 30's we used to run down and wave at the engineer when a
Pacific Central train came by on its way to San Ynez. The PC, long
gone, is now almost forgotten
In the fifties, did you sit beneath a tree strumming your guitar with
the rhythm that the drivers made?
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
Jerry Friedman
2017-04-17 20:33:31 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 11:22:27 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
I don't know what a "heritage train" is, but if they can verb (this
meaning of) "train" I suppose people will be "heritaging" when they
are "passengering" on this tour.
I think "heritage refers to the "non-modern" rolling stock: steam locos
and older carriages furnished in a historic style.
This blog entry about a visit to Ireland in 2015 includes (*my
http://brenspeedie.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/3-athenry-castles-trail-revisited.html
From our arrival at Galway’s Ceannt Station where we gazed in awe at
the classical Emerald Isle Express *steam engine and luxurious rail
carriages* with its international clientele that was straight out of
Agatha Christie’s Murder on the Orient Express; to ...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-MnyjDV6dBj8/VaecwhvRNGI/AAAAAAAAKbw/4k7I_4whKMU/s1600/AthenryRailEmeraldExpress.jpg
The carriage shown belongs to the Railway Preservation Society of
Ireland (RPSI).
This YouTube video shows "EMERALD ISLE EXPLORER, Loco 461 at Athenry on
Sunday 21st June 2015".
http://youtu.be/tSm1yDR9oSI
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_Preservation_Society_of_Ireland
The skunk train between Willits and Fort Bragg is rather
less luxe - but perhaps better scenery.
...

Apparently this Fort Bragg isa small town in California, not a
big military base in North Carolina.
--
Jerry Friedman whether there are ever Willets in Willits. Seems likely.
J. J. Lodder
2017-04-16 18:39:17 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
They don't include seven drunken nights?

Jan
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-16 19:21:53 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express. It's "a luxe experience, traveling by private
heritage train". It better be luxe; the cost is $6,312 per person for
the seven day tour including lodging in five-star hotels.
They don't include seven drunken nights?
A seven-day tour would normally include six fun-filled nights; the drunkenness
is implicit in the five-star hotels. Does it say whether all meals are included?
Probably not most drinks, though. Perhaps a greeting reception and a farewell
reception.
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
2017-04-16 19:34:40 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Does it say whether all meals are included?
Please ignore the Loony Linguist's stupid question. Thanks.

See the lonesome attention-whore:
Loading Image...

--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
The Conscience of AUE
Quinn C
2017-04-16 20:48:10 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express.
So it doesn't cater to people who prefer caring.
--
It gets hot in Raleigh, but Texas! I don't know why anybody
lives here, honestly.
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.220
Peter T. Daniels
2017-04-16 21:43:33 UTC
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Post by Quinn C
Post by Tony Cooper
In the "Travel" section of today's newspaper there's an article with
the headline "Training in Ireland".
I was curious to see what type of training was being offered: Pub
crawling? Identifying all 40 shades of green? Getting home when
legless?
But no, the "training" is traveling around Ireland by train on the
Emerald Isle Express.
So it doesn't cater to people who prefer caring.
That has to be carring, to preserve the vowel in the nonce-formation.
Loading...