Discussion:
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
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Dingbat
2017-12-26 10:59:10 UTC
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13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!

20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.

Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
RH Draney
2017-12-26 12:06:56 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
No, it happened long before Amy...they started adding a lot of Welsh
actors to the cast way back in the Eccleston era....r
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-12-26 12:26:48 UTC
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On Tue, 26 Dec 2017 02:59:10 -0800 (PST), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Is David Tennant coming back in seven years time as the 20th Dr Who?
He was the 10th Dr Who. <smile>
Post by Dingbat
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
I think the general answer to that is "Why not?"

The 9th Dr Who was played by Christopher Eccleston with his Mancunian
(Manchester) accent, and the 12th Dr Who was played by Peter Capaldi
with his Scottish accent.

Jodie Whittaker who is the 13th Dr Who has played various characters in
other shows using her Yorkshire accent or variants of it.

Anyway, the showrunner (the man in charge) Steven Moffat is quoted:
http://metro.co.uk/2017/12/05/doctor-fans-will-react-jodie-whittakers-yorkshire-accent-gender-says-steven-moffatt-7135480/

‘You’ll spend more time in that first episode reacting to her accent
than her gender,’ explains Steven. ‘It’ll be, “Oh, what a big fuss…
oh, she’s funny, isn’t she?… Yorkshire? Why’s she got a Yorkshire
accent?” That’s going to be it.’
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
p***@googlemail.com
2017-12-26 12:31:28 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
Tennant didn't lose his regionalisms. They were simply less noticeable to begin with as he is from the much more 'Anglicised' West Lothian region than Capaldi's rich Glaswegian affects.

Overall I don't see this as a new departure. Doctor Who has always been regional. It just so happens that for the most part that region has been the South East with accents close to received pronunciation. Nevertheless there is a clear distinction between William Hartnell's plummy, old-school actor's 'posh' and Patrick Troughton's more natural delivery, for example.
Janet
2017-12-26 19:29:05 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.

A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)

Janet
the Omrud
2017-12-26 22:17:35 UTC
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Post by Janet
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
--
David
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-12-27 10:18:32 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
Hmm. Those us born in the south but living as lads close to Manchester
didn't make any distinction between Manchester and Lancashire accents
-- too subtle for our untrained ears. Liverpool, yes, however: very
different.
--
athel
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-27 12:00:20 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
There is some question as to whether there exists a Lancastrian accent at all, unless it means literally the accent of the people of Lancaster. Every major conurbation in Lancashire has its own accent and woe betide anyone who fails to recognise your home town and assigns you to another!
Paul Wolff
2017-12-27 23:17:07 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
There is some question as to whether there exists a Lancastrian accent
at all, unless it means literally the accent of the people of
Lancaster. Every major conurbation in Lancashire has its own accent and
woe betide anyone who fails to recognise your home town and assigns you
to another!
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor had been born twenty-odd
miles away. He forgave me, so it's not as bad as that implies.
--
Paul
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-12-28 09:35:08 UTC
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Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
There is some question as to whether there exists a Lancastrian accent
at all, unless it means literally the accent of the people of
Lancaster. Every major conurbation in Lancashire has its own accent and
woe betide anyone who fails to recognise your home town and assigns you
to another!
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
Post by Paul Wolff
had been born twenty-odd miles away. He forgave me, so it's not as bad
as that implies.
--
athel
occam
2017-12-28 09:46:33 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Paul Wolff
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
"On the rise" according to Google ngram

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=interlocutor&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cinterlocutor%3B%2Cc0

or
https://tinyurl.com/ya89yetx (in TinyURLese)
LFS
2017-12-28 09:56:14 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm.  I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
There is some question as to whether there exists a Lancastrian
accent at all, unless it means literally the accent of the people of
Lancaster. Every major conurbation in Lancashire has its own accent
and woe betide anyone who fails to recognise your home town and
assigns you to another!
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
Not very. I first heard it on The Black and White Minstrels Show when I
was very young. It featured a character called Mr Interlocutor. I liked
the sound of the word very much and I still tend to watch out for its
general use.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Peter T. Daniels
2017-12-28 12:30:30 UTC
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Post by LFS
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Paul Wolff
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
Not very. I first heard it on The Black and White Minstrels Show when I
was very young. It featured a character called Mr Interlocutor. I liked
the sound of the word very much and I still tend to watch out for its
general use.
It appeared in vaudeville more generally, as a term of address for what is nowadays called the "straight man."
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-12-28 19:39:35 UTC
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On Thu, 28 Dec 2017 04:30:30 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by LFS
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Paul Wolff
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
Not very. I first heard it on The Black and White Minstrels Show when I
was very young. It featured a character called Mr Interlocutor. I liked
the sound of the word very much and I still tend to watch out for its
general use.
The OED has that sense:

3. The middleman of a blackface minstrel troupe, who questions the
end-men and acts as compère.
1880 E. James Amateur Negro Minstrel's Guide 2 Interlocutor or
Middle Man, in the Center.
1884 Sat. Rev. 7 June 740/2 The place of the stately
Interlocutor..was filled by the banjoist.
1957 W. C. Handy Father of Blues xxi. 276 Henry Troy acted as
the interlocutor, with Tom Fletcher and Laurence Deas as end men.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It appeared in vaudeville more generally, as a term of address for what is nowadays called the "straight man."
Originally it was:

1. One who takes part in a dialogue, conversation, or discussion. In
pl. the persons who carry on a dialogue.
15nn...

2. With poss. pron. One who enters into or takes part in
conversation with another.
1848 Thackeray Vanity Fair li. 463 ‘It's you, Moss, is it?’ said
the Colonel, who appeared to know his interlocutor.
1859 ‘G. Eliot’ Adam Bede I. i. ii. 27 Your true rustic turns
his back on his interlocutor.
1863 C. C. Clarke Shakespeare-characters ii. 50 Celia..always
checks the career of her wit, when it curvets beyond the comfort
of her interlocutor.

Sense 2 is the one I know, but don't use.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Mack A. Damia
2017-12-28 17:30:52 UTC
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Post by LFS
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm.  I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
There is some question as to whether there exists a Lancastrian
accent at all, unless it means literally the accent of the people of
Lancaster. Every major conurbation in Lancashire has its own accent
and woe betide anyone who fails to recognise your home town and
assigns you to another!
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
Not very. I first heard it on The Black and White Minstrels Show when I
was very young. It featured a character called Mr Interlocutor. I liked
the sound of the word very much and I still tend to watch out for its
general use.
Geezus, Laura, I was just thinking of the word yesterday in connection
with a black minstrel show, Honest injun.
GordonD
2017-12-30 10:19:55 UTC
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Post by LFS
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
On Wed, 27 Dec 2017, Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing
new in Dr Who. A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent
(Christopher Eccleston), and a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a
Mancunian accent is Lancastrian (same goes for
Liverpudlian).
There is some question as to whether there exists a Lancastrian
accent at all, unless it means literally the accent of the
people of Lancaster. Every major conurbation in Lancashire has
its own accent and woe betide anyone who fails to recognise
your home town and assigns you to another!
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
Not very. I first heard it on The Black and White Minstrels Show when
I was very young. It featured a character called Mr Interlocutor. I
liked the sound of the word very much and I still tend to watch out
for its general use.
I think the only time I have ever heard it used was by Sir Humphrey
Appleby in 'Yes Minister', and his speech pattern was hardly typical.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
b***@aol.com
2017-12-28 17:35:03 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
There is some question as to whether there exists a Lancastrian accent
at all, unless it means literally the accent of the people of
Lancaster. Every major conurbation in Lancashire has its own accent and
woe betide anyone who fails to recognise your home town and assigns you
to another!
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
There doesn't seem to be another single English word for "a person one
is having a conversation with". That's the more surprising as English is
generally much more practical than French.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Paul Wolff
had been born twenty-odd miles away. He forgave me, so it's not as bad
as that implies.
--
athel
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-28 17:45:48 UTC
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Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
There is some question as to whether there exists a Lancastrian accent
at all, unless it means literally the accent of the people of
Lancaster. Every major conurbation in Lancashire has its own accent and
woe betide anyone who fails to recognise your home town and assigns you
to another!
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
There doesn't seem to be another single English word for "a person one
is having a conversation with". That's the more surprising as English is
generally much more practical than French.
It is. The practical conclusion is that there's really little or no need for such a word. The fact that I have got through my entire life without ever having said or written 'interlocutor' (until now, obviously) is more than adequate proof.
b***@aol.com
2017-12-28 18:09:54 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
There is some question as to whether there exists a Lancastrian accent
at all, unless it means literally the accent of the people of
Lancaster. Every major conurbation in Lancashire has its own accent and
woe betide anyone who fails to recognise your home town and assigns you
to another!
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
There doesn't seem to be another single English word for "a person one
is having a conversation with". That's the more surprising as English is
generally much more practical than French.
It is. The practical conclusion is that there's really little or no need for such a word. The fact that I have got through my entire life without ever having said or written 'interlocutor' (until now, obviously) is more than adequate proof.
It only shows that you've used the complete English phrase instead, but
shouldn't brevity be at a premium in all languages?
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-28 18:28:19 UTC
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Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
It is. The practical conclusion is that there's really little or no need for such a word. The fact that I have got through my entire life without ever having said or written 'interlocutor' (until now, obviously) is more than adequate proof.
It only shows that you've used the complete English phrase instead, but
shouldn't brevity be at a premium in all languages?
If you wish to speak a language devoid of all colour and poetry then so be it. I'm certainly not going to recommend it.

Having said that, I simply cannot imagine any part of my everyday speech or writing in which either interlocutor or a more fulsome phrase meaning that would be necessary. Why would I volunteer for ...

I was having a conversation and my interlocutor said ....

... over ...

I was in conversation with N and she said ....

?
b***@aol.com
2017-12-28 19:12:15 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
It is. The practical conclusion is that there's really little or no need for such a word. The fact that I have got through my entire life without ever having said or written 'interlocutor' (until now, obviously) is more than adequate proof.
It only shows that you've used the complete English phrase instead, but
shouldn't brevity be at a premium in all languages?
If you wish to speak a language devoid of all colour and poetry then so be it. I'm certainly not going to recommend it.
Brevity is the mark of accuracy, which makes for the beauty of a language.
On the other hand, I would not recommend verbosity in everyday language,
let alone poetry.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Having said that, I simply cannot imagine any part of my everyday speech or writing in which either interlocutor or a more fulsome phrase meaning that would be necessary. Why would I volunteer for ...
I was having a conversation and my interlocutor said ....
... over ...
I was in conversation with N and she said ....
?
What if you want a generic term for that person and the context
doesn't mention a conversation, as in "I always listen carefully
to my interlocutor"?
Paul Wolff
2017-12-28 19:53:40 UTC
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Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
It is. The practical conclusion is that there's really little or
no need for such a word. The fact that I have got through my
entire life without ever having said or written 'interlocutor'
(until now, obviously) is more than adequate proof.
It only shows that you've used the complete English phrase instead, but
shouldn't brevity be at a premium in all languages?
If you wish to speak a language devoid of all colour and poetry then
so be it. I'm certainly not going to recommend it.
Brevity is the mark of accuracy, which makes for the beauty of a language.
On that basis, Latin is a particularly beautiful language. In my limited
experience of languages, it is the briefest. Quot culi, tot sententiae.
Post by b***@aol.com
On the other hand, I would not recommend verbosity in everyday language,
let alone poetry.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Having said that, I simply cannot imagine any part of my everyday
speech or writing in which either interlocutor or a more fulsome
phrase meaning that would be necessary. Why would I volunteer for ...
I was having a conversation and my interlocutor said ....
... over ...
I was in conversation with N and she said ....
?
What if you want a generic term for that person and the context
doesn't mention a conversation, as in "I always listen carefully
to my interlocutor"?
What if you don't know N's name? What if your current interlocutor
doesn't know the first interlocutor's name?
--
Paul
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-28 21:48:11 UTC
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Post by Paul Wolff
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
It is. The practical conclusion is that there's really little or
no need for such a word. The fact that I have got through my
entire life without ever having said or written 'interlocutor'
(until now, obviously) is more than adequate proof.
It only shows that you've used the complete English phrase instead, but
shouldn't brevity be at a premium in all languages?
If you wish to speak a language devoid of all colour and poetry then
so be it. I'm certainly not going to recommend it.
Brevity is the mark of accuracy, which makes for the beauty of a language.
On that basis, Latin is a particularly beautiful language. In my limited
experience of languages, it is the briefest. Quot culi, tot sententiae.
Post by b***@aol.com
On the other hand, I would not recommend verbosity in everyday language,
let alone poetry.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Having said that, I simply cannot imagine any part of my everyday
speech or writing in which either interlocutor or a more fulsome
phrase meaning that would be necessary. Why would I volunteer for ...
I was having a conversation and my interlocutor said ....
... over ...
I was in conversation with N and she said ....
?
What if you want a generic term for that person and the context
doesn't mention a conversation, as in "I always listen carefully
to my interlocutor"?
What if you don't know N's name? What if your current interlocutor
doesn't know the first interlocutor's name?
--
The some handy substitute for the name will be employed. If push comes to shove 'someone' will be quite adequate. After that the appropriate pronoun suffices and, of course, is also very 'brevis'!
Peter Moylan
2017-12-29 01:19:39 UTC
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Post by Paul Wolff
Post by b***@aol.com
Brevity is the mark of accuracy, which makes for the beauty of a language.
On that basis, Latin is a particularly beautiful language. In my limited
experience of languages, it is the briefest. Quot culi, tot sententiae.
I was watching a Danish movie last night, and was struck yet again by
the impression that Danish is rich in very short words.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-29 12:25:44 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by b***@aol.com
Brevity is the mark of accuracy, which makes for the beauty of a language.
On that basis, Latin is a particularly beautiful language. In my limited
experience of languages, it is the briefest. Quot culi, tot sententiae.
I was watching a Danish movie last night, and was struck yet again by
the impression that Danish is rich in very short words.
As Danish shares with German the habit of combining words into multi-syllabic nightmares I'm inclined to doubt that the impression you have from this script is sufficient to support a general thesis as to the brevity of the language. No language has more short words than English but that's because no language has more words than English, full stop, not because it is especially devoted to brevity.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-12-29 14:18:27 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by b***@aol.com
Brevity is the mark of accuracy, which makes for the beauty of a language.
On that basis, Latin is a particularly beautiful language. In my limited
experience of languages, it is the briefest. Quot culi, tot sententiae.
I was watching a Danish movie last night, and was struck yet again by>
the impression that Danish is rich in very short words.
As Danish shares with German the habit of combining words into
multi-syllabic nightmares I'm inclined to doubt that the impression you
have from this script is sufficient to support a general thesis as to
the brevity of the language. No language has more short words than
English but that's because no language has more words than English,
full stop,
False argument. English as lots of words, yes, but very few of them are
very short words. I'm not about to check in a dictionary, but I should
be surprised if English has many more short words than French. Yes, but
what about all the non-dictionary words that English has? What about
them, as hardly any are very short.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
not because it is especially devoted to brevity.
--
athel
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-29 15:13:25 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by b***@aol.com
Brevity is the mark of accuracy, which makes for the beauty of a language.
On that basis, Latin is a particularly beautiful language. In my limited
experience of languages, it is the briefest. Quot culi, tot sententiae.
I was watching a Danish movie last night, and was struck yet again by>
the impression that Danish is rich in very short words.
As Danish shares with German the habit of combining words into
multi-syllabic nightmares I'm inclined to doubt that the impression you
have from this script is sufficient to support a general thesis as to
the brevity of the language. No language has more short words than
English but that's because no language has more words than English,
full stop,
False argument. English as lots of words, yes, but very few of them are
very short words. I'm not about to check in a dictionary, but I should
be surprised if English has many more short words than French. Yes, but
what about all the non-dictionary words that English has? What about
them, as hardly any are very short.
It seems awfully brave to declare someone's argument false when you
admit in the next sentence that you've not done and are not prepared
to do the research necessary to prove it.

So lets get some numbers on this from the official
Scrabble lists for each language.

2 letter words: 124 Eng, 76 Fr
3 letter words: 1341 Eng, 540 Fr*

* estimated as I could only find a list including
definitions and was too lazy to count them but
it's not far off

Also wiser men than me have calculated average word lengths
for use in text length estimates ...

average word lengths in English, French, Spanish and German
are approximately 5.10, 5.13, 5.22 and 6.26 respectively

... which further supports my original argument.
J. J. Lodder
2017-12-30 12:12:40 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by b***@aol.com
Brevity is the mark of accuracy, which makes for the beauty of a language.
On that basis, Latin is a particularly beautiful language. In my limited
experience of languages, it is the briefest. Quot culi, tot sententiae.
I was watching a Danish movie last night, and was struck yet again by
the impression that Danish is rich in very short words.
As Danish shares with German the habit of combining words into
multi-syllabic nightmares I'm inclined to doubt that the impression you
have from this script is sufficient to support a general thesis as to the
brevity of the language. No language has more short words than English but
that's because no language has more words than English, full stop, not
because it is especially devoted to brevity.
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,

Jan
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-30 13:37:08 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by b***@aol.com
Brevity is the mark of accuracy, which makes for the beauty of a language.
On that basis, Latin is a particularly beautiful language. In my limited
experience of languages, it is the briefest. Quot culi, tot sententiae.
I was watching a Danish movie last night, and was struck yet again by
the impression that Danish is rich in very short words.
As Danish shares with German the habit of combining words into
multi-syllabic nightmares I'm inclined to doubt that the impression you
have from this script is sufficient to support a general thesis as to the
brevity of the language. No language has more short words than English but
that's because no language has more words than English, full stop, not
because it is especially devoted to brevity.
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
Jan
Er .. English IS a Germanic language. So if we're counting words that
don't yet exist but might (which is damned silly but you started it) it's
capacity (not, in fact, infinite, as you really ought to know) is at least
equal.

Oxford English Dictionaries, who should know, support the view that
English is the language with the greatest number of words in use.
And as no language comes even close in the number of new words
being added (over a thousand a year at present) that position will be
increasingly unassailable.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-30 14:07:07 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Er .. English IS a Germanic language. So if we're counting words that
don't yet exist but might (which is damned silly but you started it) it's
capacity (not, in fact, infinite, as you really ought to know) is at least
equal.
Oxford English Dictionaries, who should know, support the view that
English is the language with the greatest number of words in use.
And as no language comes even close in the number of new words
being added (over a thousand a year at present) that position will be
increasingly unassailable.
Forgive my awful orthographical error ... itchy apostrophe finger!
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-12-30 14:07:55 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[ ... ]
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
Jan
Er .. English IS a Germanic language.
I'm sure Jan knows that. However, this is a case where the difference
between defining and non-defining clauses becomes crucial. If he had
written "Gernamic languages, which can combine words..." you would have
a point, but he didn't, he wrote "Gernamic languages that can combine
words...".
--
athel
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-30 14:18:05 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[ ... ]
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
Jan
Er .. English IS a Germanic language.
I'm sure Jan knows that. However, this is a case where the difference
between defining and non-defining clauses becomes crucial. If he had
written "Gernamic languages, which can combine words..." you would have
a point, but he didn't, he wrote "Gernamic languages that can combine
words...".
--
athel
No. English IS a Germanic language WHICH CAN combine words, both directly as in 'lawnmower' or through the use of hyphens as in 'mother-in-law'. My point is precisely that anything German can do English can do, quite possibly better, and, through its borrowings from across the world, more besides.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-12-30 15:05:40 UTC
Reply
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[ ... ]
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
Jan
Er .. English IS a Germanic language.
I'm sure Jan knows that. However, this is a case where the difference>
between defining and non-defining clauses becomes crucial. If he had>
written "Gernamic languages, which can combine words..." you would
have> a point, but he didn't, he wrote "Gernamic languages that can
combine> words...".
--
athel
No. English IS a Germanic language WHICH CAN combine words, both
directly as in 'lawnmower' or through the use of hyphens as in
'mother-in-law'. My point is precisely that anything German can do
English can do, quite possibly better, and, through its borrowings from
across the world, more besides.
I think we are talking past one another. Yes, English _can_ combine
words in the way you say, but it is very sparing about it, whereas
German does it a great deal, and allows anyone to create a new word
whenever they feel like it. I suppose Danish may be the same (from what
has been said), but I don't know much about Danish beyond the fact that
they don't use consonants much.

It was the same a day or two ago when we were disagreeing about whether
English or French had more very short words. You were talking about
what the Scrabble dictionary allows, whereas I was talking about
ordinary language (as the thread was about Scrabble you were probably
justified). Google finds a page entitled "Common short words in
English", and lists these:

aa ad ae am an as at be by do go ha he hi id if in is it me no of ok on
or pi so to up us we

Of these I would accept

am an as at be by do go he if in is it me no of on or so to up us we

as ordinary everyday words that everyone uses. Some of the others (aa
and ae) probably only occur in games of Scrabble, whereas others, like
id and pi, satisfy technical needs but are hardly everyday words. In
any case, if pi why not mu and nu, or even xi, not to mention em and
en, necessary for anyone interested in typography.

So far as French is concerned Helen Fouché Gaines listed these as
common two-letter words:

de il le et je la ne un en ce se me au sa du

but she omitted several I would regard as common:

tu te ta eu on ou es su pu (more if you regard là, dû and où as
different from la, du and ou, or if you regard ça as a word)

That's about as many as in the English list.

I was surprised that Helen Fouché Gaines didn't include tu, te and ta,
but as she was interested in cryptanalysis she probably found that they
didn't crop up very often in military messages.
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2017-12-30 15:21:34 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Google finds a page entitled "Common short words in
aa ad ae am an as at be by do go ha he hi id if in is it me no of ok on
or pi so to up us we
Of these I would accept
am an as at be by do go he if in is it me no of on or so to up us we
as ordinary everyday words that everyone uses. Some of the others (aa
and ae) probably only occur in games of Scrabble, whereas others, like
id and pi, satisfy technical needs but are hardly everyday words. In
any case, if pi why not mu and nu, or even xi, not to mention em and
en, necessary for anyone interested in typography.
And ax. "Pi" occurs in "pied type" (making the omission of em and en odder).
Janet
2017-12-30 20:47:39 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Google finds a page entitled "Common short words in
aa ad ae am an as at be by do go ha he hi id if in is it me no of ok on
or pi so to up us we
Of these I would accept
am an as at be by do go he if in is it me no of on or so to up us we
as ordinary everyday words that everyone uses. Some of the others (aa
and ae) probably only occur in games of Scrabble, whereas others, like
id and pi, satisfy technical needs but are hardly everyday words. In
any case, if pi why not mu and nu, or even xi, not to mention em and
en, necessary for anyone interested in typography.
And ax. "Pi" occurs in "pied type" (making the omission of em and en odder).
pi identifies the 16th star in a constellation.

Janet.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-12-30 19:30:27 UTC
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On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 16:05:40 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[ ... ]
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
Jan
Er .. English IS a Germanic language.
I'm sure Jan knows that. However, this is a case where the difference>
between defining and non-defining clauses becomes crucial. If he had>
written "Gernamic languages, which can combine words..." you would
have> a point, but he didn't, he wrote "Gernamic languages that can
combine> words...".
--
athel
No. English IS a Germanic language WHICH CAN combine words, both
directly as in 'lawnmower' or through the use of hyphens as in
'mother-in-law'. My point is precisely that anything German can do
English can do, quite possibly better, and, through its borrowings from
across the world, more besides.
I think we are talking past one another. Yes, English _can_ combine
words in the way you say, but it is very sparing about it, whereas
German does it a great deal, and allows anyone to create a new word
whenever they feel like it. I suppose Danish may be the same (from what
has been said), but I don't know much about Danish beyond the fact that
they don't use consonants much.
It was the same a day or two ago when we were disagreeing about whether
English or French had more very short words. You were talking about
what the Scrabble dictionary allows, whereas I was talking about
ordinary language (as the thread was about Scrabble you were probably
justified). Google finds a page entitled "Common short words in
aa ad ae am an as at be by do go ha he hi id if in is it me no of ok on
or pi so to up us we
Of these I would accept
am an as at be by do go he if in is it me no of on or so to up us we
as ordinary everyday words that everyone uses.
I'd be inclined to include as everyday words the interjection "ha",
typically "Ha!", and the greeting "hi", "Hi".

"id" when "ID" for identity is not a word and neither is "ok" as "Ok".
While they might be in everyday use they are initialisms not words.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Some of the others (aa
and ae) probably only occur in games of Scrabble, whereas others, like
id and pi, satisfy technical needs but are hardly everyday words. In
any case, if pi why not mu and nu, or even xi, not to mention em and
en, necessary for anyone interested in typography.
So far as French is concerned Helen Fouché Gaines listed these as
de il le et je la ne un en ce se me au sa du
tu te ta eu on ou es su pu (more if you regard là, dû and où as
different from la, du and ou, or if you regard ça as a word)
That's about as many as in the English list.
I was surprised that Helen Fouché Gaines didn't include tu, te and ta,
but as she was interested in cryptanalysis she probably found that they
didn't crop up very often in military messages.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
2017-12-30 22:47:15 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
I'd be inclined to include as everyday words the interjection "ha",
typically "Ha!", and the greeting "hi", "Hi".
That means you've made the decision to include interjections among "words."
Many linguists don't.
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
"id" when "ID" for identity is not a word and neither is "ok" as "Ok".
While they might be in everyday use they are initialisms not words.
"Okay" may historically be one ("Oll Korrekt"), but that very fact wasn't
rediscovered until a few decades ago. Synchronically, it is an unanalyzable
single morpheme.

"ID" has not undergone that fate.
b***@aol.com
2017-12-30 19:56:44 UTC
Reply
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[ ... ]
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
Jan
Er .. English IS a Germanic language.
I'm sure Jan knows that. However, this is a case where the difference>
between defining and non-defining clauses becomes crucial. If he had>
written "Gernamic languages, which can combine words..." you would
have> a point, but he didn't, he wrote "Gernamic languages that can
combine> words...".
--
athel
No. English IS a Germanic language WHICH CAN combine words, both
directly as in 'lawnmower' or through the use of hyphens as in
'mother-in-law'. My point is precisely that anything German can do
English can do, quite possibly better, and, through its borrowings from
across the world, more besides.
I think we are talking past one another. Yes, English _can_ combine
words in the way you say, but it is very sparing about it, whereas
German does it a great deal, and allows anyone to create a new word
whenever they feel like it. I suppose Danish may be the same (from what
has been said), but I don't know much about Danish beyond the fact that
they don't use consonants much.
It was the same a day or two ago when we were disagreeing about whether
English or French had more very short words. You were talking about
what the Scrabble dictionary allows, whereas I was talking about
ordinary language (as the thread was about Scrabble you were probably
justified). Google finds a page entitled "Common short words in
aa ad ae am an as at be by do go ha he hi id if in is it me no of ok on
or pi so to up us we
Of these I would accept
am an as at be by do go he if in is it me no of on or so to up us we
as ordinary everyday words that everyone uses. Some of the others (aa
and ae) probably only occur in games of Scrabble, whereas others, like
id and pi, satisfy technical needs but are hardly everyday words. In
any case, if pi why not mu and nu, or even xi, not to mention em and
en, necessary for anyone interested in typography.
So far as French is concerned Helen Fouché Gaines listed these as
de il le et je la ne un en ce se me au sa du
tu te ta eu on ou es su pu (more if you regard là, dû and où as
different from la, du and ou, or if you regard ça as a word)
That's about as many as in the English list.
I was surprised that Helen Fouché Gaines didn't include tu, te and ta,
but as she was interested in cryptanalysis she probably found that they
didn't crop up very often in military messages.
It could be added that the shortest of all words, i.e. one-letter words,
seem to be more numerous in French:

a, à, l', d', ç' ("ç'aurait"), c' ("c'eût"), j', t', s', (vocative) Ô

vs

I, 's (for "has" or "is", not as a marker of the possessive case), 'd,
(vocative) O

All I can think of offhand, there might be others. Score: 10-4.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
--
athel
b***@aol.com
2017-12-30 20:08:54 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[ ... ]
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
Jan
Er .. English IS a Germanic language.
I'm sure Jan knows that. However, this is a case where the difference>
between defining and non-defining clauses becomes crucial. If he had>
written "Gernamic languages, which can combine words..." you would
have> a point, but he didn't, he wrote "Gernamic languages that can
combine> words...".
--
athel
No. English IS a Germanic language WHICH CAN combine words, both
directly as in 'lawnmower' or through the use of hyphens as in
'mother-in-law'. My point is precisely that anything German can do
English can do, quite possibly better, and, through its borrowings from
across the world, more besides.
I think we are talking past one another. Yes, English _can_ combine
words in the way you say, but it is very sparing about it, whereas
German does it a great deal, and allows anyone to create a new word
whenever they feel like it. I suppose Danish may be the same (from what
has been said), but I don't know much about Danish beyond the fact that
they don't use consonants much.
It was the same a day or two ago when we were disagreeing about whether
English or French had more very short words. You were talking about
what the Scrabble dictionary allows, whereas I was talking about
ordinary language (as the thread was about Scrabble you were probably
justified). Google finds a page entitled "Common short words in
aa ad ae am an as at be by do go ha he hi id if in is it me no of ok on
or pi so to up us we
Of these I would accept
am an as at be by do go he if in is it me no of on or so to up us we
as ordinary everyday words that everyone uses. Some of the others (aa
and ae) probably only occur in games of Scrabble, whereas others, like
id and pi, satisfy technical needs but are hardly everyday words. In
any case, if pi why not mu and nu, or even xi, not to mention em and
en, necessary for anyone interested in typography.
So far as French is concerned Helen Fouché Gaines listed these as
de il le et je la ne un en ce se me au sa du
tu te ta eu on ou es su pu (more if you regard là, dû and où as
different from la, du and ou, or if you regard ça as a word)
That's about as many as in the English list.
I was surprised that Helen Fouché Gaines didn't include tu, te and ta,
but as she was interested in cryptanalysis she probably found that they
didn't crop up very often in military messages.
It could be added that the shortest of all words, i.e. one-letter words,
a, à, l', d', ç' ("ç'aurait"), c' ("c'eût"), j', t', s', (vocative) Ô
Addendum: I forgot the obvious m'.
Post by b***@aol.com
vs
I, 's (for "has" or "is", not as a marker of the possessive case), 'd,
(vocative) O
All I can think of offhand, there might be others. Score: 10-4.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
--
athel
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-30 22:29:53 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[ ... ]
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
Jan
Er .. English IS a Germanic language.
I'm sure Jan knows that. However, this is a case where the difference>
between defining and non-defining clauses becomes crucial. If he had>
written "Gernamic languages, which can combine words..." you would
have> a point, but he didn't, he wrote "Gernamic languages that can
combine> words...".
--
athel
No. English IS a Germanic language WHICH CAN combine words, both
directly as in 'lawnmower' or through the use of hyphens as in
'mother-in-law'. My point is precisely that anything German can do
English can do, quite possibly better, and, through its borrowings from
across the world, more besides.
I think we are talking past one another. Yes, English _can_ combine
words in the way you say, but it is very sparing about it, whereas
German does it a great deal, and allows anyone to create a new word
whenever they feel like it. I suppose Danish may be the same (from what
has been said), but I don't know much about Danish beyond the fact that
they don't use consonants much.
It was the same a day or two ago when we were disagreeing about whether
English or French had more very short words. You were talking about
what the Scrabble dictionary allows, whereas I was talking about
ordinary language (as the thread was about Scrabble you were probably
justified). Google finds a page entitled "Common short words in
aa ad ae am an as at be by do go ha he hi id if in is it me no of ok on
or pi so to up us we
Of these I would accept
am an as at be by do go he if in is it me no of on or so to up us we
as ordinary everyday words that everyone uses. Some of the others (aa
and ae) probably only occur in games of Scrabble, whereas others, like
id and pi, satisfy technical needs but are hardly everyday words. In
any case, if pi why not mu and nu, or even xi, not to mention em and
en, necessary for anyone interested in typography.
So far as French is concerned Helen Fouché Gaines listed these as
de il le et je la ne un en ce se me au sa du
tu te ta eu on ou es su pu (more if you regard là, dû and où as
different from la, du and ou, or if you regard ça as a word)
That's about as many as in the English list.
I was surprised that Helen Fouché Gaines didn't include tu, te and ta,
but as she was interested in cryptanalysis she probably found that they
didn't crop up very often in military messages.
It could be added that the shortest of all words, i.e. one-letter words,
a, à, l', d', ç' ("ç'aurait"), c' ("c'eût"), j', t', s', (vocative) Ô
vs
I, 's (for "has" or "is", not as a marker of the possessive case), 'd,
(vocative) O
All I can think of offhand, there might be others. Score: 10-4.
Most of those aren't words but elisions. If you're counting them
you'd have to count 'd in English for had and so on.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-12-30 22:49:22 UTC
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Post by b***@aol.com
It could be added that the shortest of all words, i.e. one-letter words,
a, à, l', d', ç' ("ç'aurait"), c' ("c'eût"), j', t', s', (vocative) Ô
vs
I, 's (for "has" or "is", not as a marker of the possessive case), 'd,
(vocative) O
All I can think of offhand, there might be others. Score: 10-4.
None of those -- in French or English, except perhaps "I" -- is a word. All are
clitics.

Peter T. Daniels
2017-12-30 15:18:50 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by J. J. Lodder
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
Er .. English IS a Germanic language.
I'm sure Jan knows that. However, this is a case where the difference
between defining and non-defining clauses becomes crucial. If he had
written "Gernamic languages, which can combine words..." you would have
a point, but he didn't, he wrote "Gernamic languages that can combine
words...".
No. English IS a Germanic language WHICH CAN combine words, both directly as in 'lawnmower' or through the use of hyphens as in 'mother-in-law'. My point is precisely that anything German can do English can do, quite possibly better, and, through its borrowings from across the world, more besides.
If you too insist on the 'sequence of letters delimited by spaces' definition
of "word," then you have no argument against JJ. Far more useful is a definition
based on breath groups, phrasing, or even semantic units. "Ice cream" is no
more or less a word than "bookcase" or "book-case."
J. J. Lodder
2017-12-30 22:19:19 UTC
Reply
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Raw Message
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[ ... ]
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
Jan
Er .. English IS a Germanic language.
I'm sure Jan knows that. However, this is a case where the difference
between defining and non-defining clauses becomes crucial. If he had
written "Gernamic languages, which can combine words..." you would have
a point, but he didn't, he wrote "Gernamic languages that can combine
words...".
--
athel
No. English IS a Germanic language WHICH CAN combine words, both directly
as in 'lawnmower' or through the use of hyphens as in 'mother-in-law'.
Like so, for example?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawn_mower>
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
My point is precisely that anything German can do English can do, quite
possibly better, and, through its borrowings from across the world, more
besides.
Can, in principle, but usually doesn't.
And schoolboys who do get red crosses from the headmasterspencil,

Jan
J. J. Lodder
2017-12-30 22:19:18 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[ ... ]
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
Jan
Er .. English IS a Germanic language.
I'm sure Jan knows that. However, this is a case where the difference
between defining and non-defining clauses becomes crucial. If he had
written "Gernamic languages, which can combine words..." you would have
a point, but he didn't, he wrote "Gernamic languages that can combine
words...".
It is possible to build new words by combination
in English too, but the proces is not automatic.
English does it in a roundabout way,
usually by first writing the words together with a hyphen in between,
and then gradually dropping it over a hundred years or so.
Dickens for example often used hyphens in word combinations
that are nowadays written as one word.

In many other languages making new words by writing words together
is taken for granted.
Everyone who writes original text does it all the time.

It is not a difference in principle,
but a very large difference in practice,

Jan
David Kleinecke
2017-12-30 19:12:43 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by b***@aol.com
Brevity is the mark of accuracy, which makes for the beauty of a
language.
On that basis, Latin is a particularly beautiful language. In my limited
experience of languages, it is the briefest. Quot culi, tot sententiae.
I was watching a Danish movie last night, and was struck yet again by
the impression that Danish is rich in very short words.
As Danish shares with German the habit of combining words into
multi-syllabic nightmares I'm inclined to doubt that the impression you
have from this script is sufficient to support a general thesis as to the
brevity of the language. No language has more short words than English but
that's because no language has more words than English, full stop, not
because it is especially devoted to brevity.
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
Jan
Er .. English IS a Germanic language. So if we're counting words that
don't yet exist but might (which is damned silly but you started it) it's
capacity (not, in fact, infinite, as you really ought to know) is at least
equal.
Oxford English Dictionaries, who should know, support the view that
English is the language with the greatest number of words in use.
And as no language comes even close in the number of new words
being added (over a thousand a year at present) that position will be
increasingly unassailable.
The notion that "word" is static category in English is
counter-productive. Consider, for example, the "phrase"
"United States". My impression is that while a syllable
break can be detected between the 'd' and the 's' there
is no "word-break" in normal native speech. English is
full of such phrases (I once reported one 13 "words"
long on sci.lang). Too technical phonetics is involved
here for me to handle but, as of today, I take the
position that nominal phrases which actually nominate
something are the syntactic atoms that should be lexed.

Thus German and English are placed on exactly the same
basis.
J. J. Lodder
2017-12-30 22:19:17 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by b***@aol.com
Brevity is the mark of accuracy, which makes for the beauty of a
language.
On that basis, Latin is a particularly beautiful language. In my
limited experience of languages, it is the briefest. Quot culi,
tot sententiae.
I was watching a Danish movie last night, and was struck yet again by
the impression that Danish is rich in very short words.
As Danish shares with German the habit of combining words into
multi-syllabic nightmares I'm inclined to doubt that the impression you
have from this script is sufficient to support a general thesis as to the
brevity of the language. No language has more short words than English but
that's because no language has more words than English, full stop, not
because it is especially devoted to brevity.
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
Jan
Er .. English IS a Germanic language. So if we're counting words that
don't yet exist but might (which is damned silly but you started it) it's
capacity (not, in fact, infinite, as you really ought to know) is at least
equal.
Half of it. The rest is 'Francais mal prononcé'.
You shouldn't be so absolute about it.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Oxford English Dictionaries, who should know, support the view that
English is the language with the greatest number of words in use.
What do they know about it? They talk about their own shop.
You might consider thw 'WNT' as a counterxample.
It is the historical dictionary of Dutch, from about 1500 to 1921,
nowadays up to 1978,
About contemporary with Oxford, and built on very similar principles.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woordenboek_der_Nederlandsche_Taal>
The WWNT is bigger than the Oxford.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
And as no language comes even close in the number of new words
being added (over a thousand a year at present) that position will be
increasingly unassailable.
Unassailable... in Oxford,

Jan
--
"Johnny Halliday was a world famous rock star... in France"
(this forum, otherthread)
Peter T. Daniels
2017-12-30 15:15:17 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by b***@aol.com
Brevity is the mark of accuracy, which makes for the beauty of a language.
On that basis, Latin is a particularly beautiful language. In my limited
experience of languages, it is the briefest. Quot culi, tot sententiae.
I was watching a Danish movie last night, and was struck yet again by
the impression that Danish is rich in very short words.
As Danish shares with German the habit of combining words into
multi-syllabic nightmares I'm inclined to doubt that the impression you
have from this script is sufficient to support a general thesis as to the
brevity of the language. No language has more short words than English but
that's because no language has more words than English, full stop, not
because it is especially devoted to brevity.
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
That would only be valid if you defined "word" as 'sequence of letters between
spaces'. English can't help it if German and Dutch (and Danish?) can't be
bothered (BrE arsed) to delimit their free morphemes in the interest of legibility.
J. J. Lodder
2017-12-30 22:19:18 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by b***@aol.com
Brevity is the mark of accuracy, which makes for the beauty of a
language.
On that basis, Latin is a particularly beautiful language. In my
limited experience of languages, it is the briefest. Quot culi,
tot sententiae.
I was watching a Danish movie last night, and was struck yet again by
the impression that Danish is rich in very short words.
As Danish shares with German the habit of combining words into
multi-syllabic nightmares I'm inclined to doubt that the impression you
have from this script is sufficient to support a general thesis as to the
brevity of the language. No language has more short words than English but
that's because no language has more words than English, full stop, not
because it is especially devoted to brevity.
Complete nonsense. Gernamic languages that can combine words
obviously have far more words than English,
because most word pairs can be used to form a new word.
This makes the number of words effectively infinite,
so there can never be something approaching to a complete dictionary,
That would only be valid if you defined "word" as 'sequence of letters
between spaces'. English can't help it if German and Dutch (and Danish?)
can't be bothered (BrE arsed) to delimit their free morphemes in the
interest of legibility.
A letter is a word. A word followed by a letter is a word.
(first in ALGOL, I think)
Of course you can make other rules, and say for example
that some spaces (but not others)
should be ignored in delimiting 'words'.

Good luck formulating your rules for that,
(and geting others to agree)

Jan
Snidely
2017-12-30 08:59:46 UTC
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Post by b***@aol.com
It only shows that you've used the complete English phrase instead, but
shouldn't brevity be at a premium in all languages?
It's a trade-off, innit? Push on one side [of a language] for brevity
and the other side sprouts complex nodules.

/dps
--
"That's a good sort of hectic, innit?"

" Very much so, and I'd recommend the haggis wontons."
-njm
Paul Wolff
2017-12-28 18:36:54 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
There is some question as to whether there exists a Lancastrian accent
at all, unless it means literally the accent of the people of
Lancaster. Every major conurbation in Lancashire has its own accent and
woe betide anyone who fails to recognise your home town and assigns you
to another!
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
There doesn't seem to be another single English word for "a person one
is having a conversation with". That's the more surprising as English is
generally much more practical than French.
It is. The practical conclusion is that there's really little or no
need for such a word. The fact that I have got through my entire life
without ever having said or written 'interlocutor' (until now,
obviously) is more than adequate proof.
My calling on the word when I needed to refer to the person I was having
a conversation with points out a weakness in that 'proof'.
--
Paul
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-12-28 17:54:15 UTC
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Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
There is some question as to whether there exists a Lancastrian accent>
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
at all, unless it means literally the accent of the people of> >>
Lancaster. Every major conurbation in Lancashire has its own accent
and> >> woe betide anyone who fails to recognise your home town and
assigns you> >> to another!
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't>
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
There doesn't seem to be another single English word for "a person one
is having a conversation with". That's the more surprising as English is
generally much more practical than French.
I agree, but although "a person one is having a conversation with" is a
bit of a mouthful its meaning is immediately obvious, but
"interlocutor" will be quite obscure to anyone who hasn't met it
before. Also, I know how to pronounce "interlocuteur", having heard it
many times, but I'm not sure about the English word: where does the
stress go? On the first o or on the u?
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Paul Wolff
had been born twenty-odd miles away. He forgave me, so it's not as bad>
as that implies.
--
athel
--
athel
b***@aol.com
2017-12-28 18:03:04 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
There is some question as to whether there exists a Lancastrian accent>
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
at all, unless it means literally the accent of the people of> >>
Lancaster. Every major conurbation in Lancashire has its own accent
and> >> woe betide anyone who fails to recognise your home town and
assigns you> >> to another!
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't>
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
There doesn't seem to be another single English word for "a person one
is having a conversation with". That's the more surprising as English is
generally much more practical than French.
I agree, but although "a person one is having a conversation with" is a
bit of a mouthful its meaning is immediately obvious, but
"interlocutor" will be quite obscure to anyone who hasn't met it
before. Also, I know how to pronounce "interlocuteur", having heard it
many times, but I'm not sure about the English word: where does the
stress go? On the first o or on the u?
My guess was (,)inter'locutor, and it's apparently correct but I agree
it could have been otherwise.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Paul Wolff
had been born twenty-odd miles away. He forgave me, so it's not as bad>
as that implies.
--
athel
--
athel
Dingbat
2017-12-29 07:45:17 UTC
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Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
There is some question as to whether there exists a Lancastrian accent
at all, unless it means literally the accent of the people of
Lancaster. Every major conurbation in Lancashire has its own accent and
woe betide anyone who fails to recognise your home town and assigns you
to another!
I guessed Oldham once when my interlocutor
The word "interlocuteur" is quite frequent in French, but I don't
remember meeting it in English before. How common is it?
There doesn't seem to be another single English word for "a person one
is having a conversation with". That's the more surprising as English is
generally much more practical than French.
There isn't another single English word for a GENERIC "person one is having a conversation with" but there are single words for specific cases like so:
In debate, one's interlocutor could be an "adversary" or "antagonist."
Under trial, one's interlocutor could be an "inquisitor."
... and so on.

Jaswant Singh, when he was Foreign Minister of India, once referred to Strobe
Talbot (if I remember right) as "my primary interlocutor" in a discussion
about a negotiation where JS had represented India and ST had represented
the US. If it wasn't Talbot, it was someone else who represented the US.
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Paul Wolff
had been born twenty-odd miles away. He forgave me, so it's not as bad
as that implies.
--
athel
Janet
2017-12-29 15:26:26 UTC
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In article <3Uz0C.255832$***@fx38.am4>, ***@gmail.com
says...
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
Eccleston was born raised and educated in Salford when it was still
part of Lancashire, and the native accent was generally described as
"Lancashire". (Not, "Lancastrian" or "Mancunian".)

Janet
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-29 15:45:37 UTC
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Post by Janet
says...
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
Eccleston was born raised and educated in Salford when it was still
part of Lancashire, and the native accent was generally described as
"Lancashire". (Not, "Lancastrian" or "Mancunian".)
Salford was made a borough of Manchester by the 1972 Local
Government Act when Eccleston was just 8 years old. It had been
a de facto part of Manchester for decades prior. Lancastrian
has been the official adjective for belonging or pertaining to or
resident in Lancashire for as long as the county has existed,
a matter of many centuries!
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-12-29 16:49:39 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
says...
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
Eccleston was born raised and educated in Salford when it was still
part of Lancashire, and the native accent was generally described as
"Lancashire". (Not, "Lancastrian" or "Mancunian".)
Salford was made a borough of Manchester by the 1972 Local
Government Act when Eccleston was just 8 years old. It had been
a de facto part of Manchester for decades prior. Lancastrian
has been the official adjective for belonging or pertaining to or
resident in Lancashire for as long as the county has existed,
a matter of many centuries!
And as David lives only just outside Lancashire I'd be inclined to
accept his use of "Lancastrian", though it did surprise me.
--
athel
the Omrud
2017-12-29 17:50:17 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Janet
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm.  I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
Eccleston was born raised and educated in Salford when it was still
part of Lancashire, and the native accent was generally described as
"Lancashire". (Not, "Lancastrian" or "Mancunian".)
Salford was made a borough of Manchester by the 1972 Local
Government Act when Eccleston was just 8 years old. It had been
a de facto part of Manchester for decades prior. Lancastrian
has been the official adjective for belonging or pertaining to or
resident in Lancashire for as long as the county has existed,
a matter of many centuries!
And as David lives only just outside Lancashire I'd be inclined to
accept his use of "Lancastrian", though it did surprise me.
A deeper analysis of what I wrote, which is probably more than it
warrants, leads me to believe that I intended to indicate that the
Salford accent does not belong to the set of accents from Lancashire,
which are many and varied. I can usually tell Wigan from Bury from
Blackpool from Rochdale. I think I was using "Lancastrian" as a general
adjective, rather than the name of accent. There is no individual
Lancashire accent. However, a Salford accent is, to my ears, a member
of the set of Mancunian accents.

Christopher Eccleston attended the Sixth Form College in Salford where
Wife taught for more than 20 years, although he had left before she
started working there.
--
David
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-12-29 17:58:17 UTC
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On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 07:45:37 -0800 (PST), Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Janet
says...
Post by the Omrud
Post by Janet
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
Hmmmm. I have to disagree with the suggestion that a Mancunian accent
is Lancastrian (same goes for Liverpudlian).
Eccleston was born raised and educated in Salford when it was still
part of Lancashire, and the native accent was generally described as
"Lancashire". (Not, "Lancastrian" or "Mancunian".)
Salford was made a borough of Manchester by the 1972 Local
Government Act when Eccleston was just 8 years old. It had been
a de facto part of Manchester for decades prior. Lancastrian
has been the official adjective for belonging or pertaining to or
resident in Lancashire for as long as the county has existed,
a matter of many centuries!
I lived in Manhester for 13 years (1959-1972).
While there I became aware of there being different accents in districts
of Greater Manchester. A friend of mine was fascinated by these
differences. He, a native of the area, could often tell where someone
came from to within two or three streets just by their accent.

Manchester is a young city. As this says:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester

Throughout the Middle Ages Manchester remained a manorial township
but began to expand "at an astonishing rate" around the turn of the
19th century. Manchester's unplanned urbanisation was brought on by
a boom in textile manufacture during the Industrial Revolution, and
resulted in it becoming the world's first industrialised city.

The population growth came from people moving from Lancshire and
Cheshire to live in the Manchester area. They seem to have moved as
groups and to have retained their accents. Naturally the accents of the
Mancunians varied with time but local differences still existed.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
RH Draney
2017-12-29 20:02:15 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
I lived in Manhester for 13 years (1959-1972).
While there I became aware of there being different accents in districts
of Greater Manchester. A friend of mine was fascinated by these
differences. He, a native of the area, could often tell where someone
came from to within two or three streets just by their accent.
He was later arrested and charged with attempting to pass off a flower
peddler as a duchess at an embassy ball....r
Paul Wolff
2017-12-29 23:19:40 UTC
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Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
I lived in Manhester for 13 years (1959-1972).
While there I became aware of there being different accents in districts
of Greater Manchester. A friend of mine was fascinated by these
differences. He, a native of the area, could often tell where someone
came from to within two or three streets just by their accent.
He was later arrested and charged with attempting to pass off a flower
peddler as a duchess at an embassy ball....r
That tale triggered a similar response here. But it must be admitted
that Professor Higgins wasn't the Manchester sort.
--
Paul
j***@mdfs.net
2017-12-30 09:40:21 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Salford was made a borough of Manchester by the 1972 Local
Government Act when Eccleston was just 8 years old. It had been
a de facto part of Manchester for decades prior.
No, it was made a borough of *Greater* Manchester, as was Manchester
itself, just as London is a borough+ of *Greater* London.

+for all intents and purposes.

For foreign readers, the structure of Greater London and Greater
Manchester is similar in concept to New York City and Tokyo
Metropolis.
Peter T. Daniels
2017-12-30 15:11:32 UTC
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Post by j***@mdfs.net
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Salford was made a borough of Manchester by the 1972 Local
Government Act when Eccleston was just 8 years old. It had been
a de facto part of Manchester for decades prior.
No, it was made a borough of *Greater* Manchester, as was Manchester
itself, just as London is a borough+ of *Greater* London.
+for all intents and purposes.
For foreign readers, the structure of Greater London and Greater
Manchester is similar in concept to New York City
That seems unlikely.
Post by j***@mdfs.net
and Tokyo
Metropolis.
GordonD
2017-12-27 09:40:28 UTC
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Post by Janet
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
As did Sylvester McCoy, the seventh Doctor (last in the original run).
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
b***@shaw.ca
2017-12-28 08:15:06 UTC
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Post by GordonD
Post by Janet
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher Eccleston), and
a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
As did Sylvester McCoy, the seventh Doctor (last in the original run).
Indeed. It's a miracle that the series survived him and is better now
than it has ever been before.

bill
GordonD
2017-12-30 10:15:59 UTC
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Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by GordonD
Post by Janet
In article
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent ... which she won't lose on
the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
Most UK TV series include regional accents. It's nothing new in Dr Who.
A previous DR Who had a Lancashire accent (Christopher
Eccleston), and a Scottish one(Peter Capaldi)
As did Sylvester McCoy, the seventh Doctor (last in the original run).
Indeed. It's a miracle that the series survived him and is better
now than it has ever been before.
Well, it didn't survive him! He was incumbent when the series was
cancelled and it was sixteen years (barring a failed attempt to bring it
back with the TV movie) before it was revived.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
RH Draney
2017-12-27 06:22:42 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
occam
2017-12-28 09:39:49 UTC
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Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
Peter Moylan
2017-12-28 16:02:06 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Katy Jennison
2017-12-28 16:44:07 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
Well, you don't actually know that he does. It would be a mistake to
assume that we see all he does and everywhere he goes, what with, as you
say, all that time and space available.
--
Katy Jennison
Katy Jennison
2017-12-28 17:14:52 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
Well, you don't actually know that he does.  It would be a mistake to
assume that we see all he does and everywhere he goes, what with, as you
say, all that time and space available.
Er, I should have said "she". Or perhaps "they". Duh.
--
Katy Jennison
Mark Brader
2017-12-29 04:16:58 UTC
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Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
Well, you don't actually know that he does. It would be a mistake to
assume that we see all he does and everywhere he goes...
It is said that a fan of "Perry Mason" once asked Raymond Burr if
it was true that he never lost a case, and he replied to the effect
that "you see only the cases I try on Saturdays".
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "...and if sooner or later your revels must be ended,
***@vex.net | well, at least you reveled." --Roger Ebert
RH Draney
2017-12-28 17:20:19 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I'm still waiting for him to select a companion who's immediately
apparent as non-human (heck, he's even got the team of Vastra, Jenny and
Strax to serve as examples of such ecumenical partnering)....r
the Omrud
2017-12-29 17:52:46 UTC
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Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I'm still waiting for him to select a companion who's immediately
apparent as non-human (heck, he's even got the team of Vastra, Jenny and
Strax to serve as examples of such ecumenical partnering)....r
Leela was not human, as could be established by the fact that human
females would have worn more clothes.
--
David
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-29 18:20:10 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I'm still waiting for him to select a companion who's immediately
apparent as non-human (heck, he's even got the team of Vastra, Jenny and
Strax to serve as examples of such ecumenical partnering)....r
Leela was not human, as could be established by the fact that human
females would have worn more clothes.
You've not been to Newcastle of a winter's night, obviously!
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-12-30 07:24:48 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by the Omrud
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I'm still waiting for him to select a companion who's immediately
apparent as non-human (heck, he's even got the team of Vastra, Jenny and
Strax to serve as examples of such ecumenical partnering)....r
Leela was not human, as could be established by the fact that human
females would have worn more clothes.
You've not been to Newcastle of a winter's night, obviously!
I haven't, but my wife has. She was amazed at how little the locals
felt it necessary to wear.
--
athel
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-12-30 11:30:46 UTC
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On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 08:24:48 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by the Omrud
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I'm still waiting for him to select a companion who's immediately
apparent as non-human (heck, he's even got the team of Vastra, Jenny and
Strax to serve as examples of such ecumenical partnering)....r
Leela was not human, as could be established by the fact that human
females would have worn more clothes.
You've not been to Newcastle of a winter's night, obviously!
I haven't, but my wife has. She was amazed at how little the locals
felt it necessary to wear.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8601303/Newcastle-and-the-one-about-the-weather.html

Newcastle was once a tropical paradise similar to the islands in the
Bahamas, scientists drilling into rocks below the city have
concluded, but the residents of Tyne and Wear regularly cause
bemusement about their imperviousness to the cold.

6:14AM BST 28 Jun 2011

India Knight, journalist: "They walked about in tiny miniskirts in
the snow and rain. Their legs had taken on a blueish tinge and
acquired a sort of giraffe-print pattern, to do, I imagine, with
chronic circulation problems. But their teeth didn't chatter, their
skin wasn't chapped and they didn't collapse in the street from
hypothermia.

"Perhaps it's a genetic thing, a superior northern gene denied to us
southern softies. The point was, though — this is going back 20
years or so— that the tiny clothes in freezing weather thing was as
much to do with money, or the lack of it, as it was with fashion. If
you've spent all your wages on buying an outfit for Saturday night,
you don't then go and cover it up with some great big shapeless coat
which you can't afford — waste of money when you could be buying
more hair dye or clothes — and are going to take off the minute you
reach your destination. Which kind of makes sense."

Joe Worsley, rugby player: "The local lasses habitually wear less
than a triathlete when it's freezing cold."

Philippa Tomson, Tyne Tees television presenter: "While the rest of
Britain is shivering in sub-arctic conditions and wrapping up in so
many layers that they make the Michelin Man look underdressed, up
here in Geordie-land the women are heading out in their traditional
winter plumage: mini-skirts, tight-fitting tops and itsy-bitsy
dresses that would look more at home on the beach in Acapulco.

The lower the thermometer plunges, the less Geordie women seem to
wear — a ‘survival of the fittest’ contest designed to weed out
weaklings (or Southerners, as they are more ­commonly known)."

Scientists even did a survey to attempt to find out if Geordies had
a genetic disposition to being able to deal with the cold.

Linda Conlon, of Newcastle ScienceFest: "We decided to investigate
the reputation Geordies have for not wearing a coat in even the
worst weather.

"Is there a possible genetic reason for our bravery or is it simply
because we like to show off our finery on a night out?"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/7892733.stm

I have not seen any reports to suggest that there is a relevant genetic
difference.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-12-30 13:32:25 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sat, 30 Dec 2017 08:24:48 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by the Omrud
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I'm still waiting for him to select a companion who's immediately
apparent as non-human (heck, he's even got the team of Vastra, Jenny and
Strax to serve as examples of such ecumenical partnering)....r
Leela was not human, as could be established by the fact that human
females would have worn more clothes.
You've not been to Newcastle of a winter's night, obviously!
I haven't, but my wife has. She was amazed at how little the locals
felt it necessary to wear.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8601303/Newcastle-and-the-one-about-the-weather.html
Newcastle was once a tropical paradise similar to the islands in the
Bahamas, scientists drilling into rocks below the city have
concluded, but the residents of Tyne and Wear regularly cause
bemusement about their imperviousness to the cold.
6:14AM BST 28 Jun 2011
India Knight, journalist: "They walked about in tiny miniskirts in
the snow and rain. Their legs had taken on a blueish tinge and
acquired a sort of giraffe-print pattern, to do, I imagine, with
chronic circulation problems. But their teeth didn't chatter, their
skin wasn't chapped and they didn't collapse in the street from
hypothermia.
A few weeks after my wife was in Newcastle to examine a PhD candidate,
we were both at a meeting in Paris, where everyone except one were
complaining about how cold it was. The exception was a British guy who
was wearing just a short-sleeved vest on the upper half of his body.
He's probably from Newcastle, my wife suggested, and when we asked him,
sure enough he was.
--
athel
Cheryl
2017-12-30 19:21:59 UTC
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Post by the Omrud
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I'm still waiting for him to select a companion who's immediately
apparent as non-human (heck, he's even got the team of Vastra, Jenny and
Strax to serve as examples of such ecumenical partnering)....r
Leela was not human, as could be established by the fact that human
females would have worn more clothes.
 You've not been to Newcastle of a winter's night, obviously!
I haven't, but my wife has. She was amazed at how little the locals felt
it necessary to wear.
Is it age-dependent? If you want to see people wearing little clothing
in cold weather, stand outside a high school or on a university campus.
Older people are the ones who wear heavy boots, woollen hats and
scarves, and heavy jackets or coats.

There are exceptions. I recently overheard a conversation on a bus in
which a university student from BC swore she was leaving Newfoundland as
soon as she finished her studies because it was so cold - she was
wearing two sweaters under her winter jacket, and she was still cold.

I didn't think it was exceptionally cold, myself, but then I'm not from BC.
--
Cheryl

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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b***@shaw.ca
2017-12-30 20:00:36 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
Post by the Omrud
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I'm still waiting for him to select a companion who's immediately
apparent as non-human (heck, he's even got the team of Vastra, Jenny and
Strax to serve as examples of such ecumenical partnering)....r
Leela was not human, as could be established by the fact that human
females would have worn more clothes.
 You've not been to Newcastle of a winter's night, obviously!
I haven't, but my wife has. She was amazed at how little the locals felt
it necessary to wear.
Is it age-dependent? If you want to see people wearing little clothing
in cold weather, stand outside a high school or on a university campus.
Older people are the ones who wear heavy boots, woollen hats and
scarves, and heavy jackets or coats.
There are exceptions. I recently overheard a conversation on a bus in
which a university student from BC swore she was leaving Newfoundland as
soon as she finished her studies because it was so cold - she was
wearing two sweaters under her winter jacket, and she was still cold.
I didn't think it was exceptionally cold, myself, but then I'm not from BC.
It's hard to generalize about the weather in B.C. At this moment it's 3 C
and sunny here in Vancouver, but -25 C in Prince George.
It's usually balmy in the Gulf Islands, but in the far northeast of the
province, there are only two seasons: Freeze your butt, and be eaten
by mosquitoes.

bill
Cheryl
2017-12-30 21:25:37 UTC
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Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Cheryl
Post by the Omrud
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I'm still waiting for him to select a companion who's immediately
apparent as non-human (heck, he's even got the team of Vastra, Jenny and
Strax to serve as examples of such ecumenical partnering)....r
Leela was not human, as could be established by the fact that human
females would have worn more clothes.
 You've not been to Newcastle of a winter's night, obviously!
I haven't, but my wife has. She was amazed at how little the locals felt
it necessary to wear.
Is it age-dependent? If you want to see people wearing little clothing
in cold weather, stand outside a high school or on a university campus.
Older people are the ones who wear heavy boots, woollen hats and
scarves, and heavy jackets or coats.
There are exceptions. I recently overheard a conversation on a bus in
which a university student from BC swore she was leaving Newfoundland as
soon as she finished her studies because it was so cold - she was
wearing two sweaters under her winter jacket, and she was still cold.
I didn't think it was exceptionally cold, myself, but then I'm not from BC.
It's hard to generalize about the weather in B.C. At this moment it's 3 C
and sunny here in Vancouver, but -25 C in Prince George.
It's usually balmy in the Gulf Islands, but in the far northeast of the
province, there are only two seasons: Freeze your butt, and be eaten
by mosquitoes.
She can't have been from Prince George. That's much colder than anything
we get here, unless we go up to Labrador.

Of course, this is the cue for someone to defend the climates of western
Labrador, Edmonton and probably Prince George by saying that they don't
feel as cold as coastal Newfoundland because they don't have as much
dampness and high wind.

They haven't been able to get the ferries across the Cabot Strait for
days; well, they've said that some of the runs weren't actually
cancelled, they were re-scheduled. Fortunately, the stores and gas
stations are well-supplied, which is not always the case on coastal
Labrador.
--
Cheryl

---
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Sam Plusnet
2017-12-30 20:50:08 UTC
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Post by Cheryl
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by the Omrud
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I'm still waiting for him to select a companion who's immediately
apparent as non-human (heck, he's even got the team of Vastra, Jenny and
Strax to serve as examples of such ecumenical partnering)....r
Leela was not human, as could be established by the fact that human
females would have worn more clothes.
 You've not been to Newcastle of a winter's night, obviously!
I haven't, but my wife has. She was amazed at how little the locals
felt it necessary to wear.
Is it age-dependent? If you want to see people wearing little clothing
in cold weather, stand outside a high school or on a university campus.
Older people are the ones who wear heavy boots, woollen hats and
scarves, and heavy jackets or coats.
There are exceptions. I recently overheard a conversation on a bus in
which a university student from BC swore she was leaving Newfoundland as
soon as she finished her studies because it was so cold - she was
wearing two sweaters under her winter jacket, and she was still cold.
I didn't think it was exceptionally cold, myself, but then I'm not from BC.
Which brought to mind the following headline

"Canadian zoo moves penguins indoors because of cold temperatures"

(Calgary zoo)
--
Sam Plusnet
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-28 17:25:05 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
A lot less now compared to the Pertwee and Tom Baker eras, it must be said. But don't forget that he has made protection of the Earth and human beings a stated duty and priority.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2017-12-28 17:59:18 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
A lot less now compared to the Pertwee and Tom Baker eras, it must be
said. But don't forget that he has made protection of the Earth and
human beings a stated duty and priority.
I'm impressed at how much you all know about it. I think the last time
I watched it William Hartnell was Dr Who. However, I knew that the
current Mrs Dawkins was once in the programme, though I never saw her.
--
athel
the Omrud
2017-12-29 17:55:07 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
A lot less now compared to the Pertwee and Tom Baker eras, it must be
said. But don't forget that he has made protection of the Earth and
human beings a stated duty and priority.
I'm impressed at how much you all know about it. I think the last time I
watched it William Hartnell was Dr Who. However, I knew that the current
Mrs Dawkins was once in the programme, though I never saw her.
I think I have seen every episode of Doctor Who ("Dr Who" is fake
branding). I certainly saw the first episode at the age of seven. It
made a deep and lasting impact on me.
--
David
Peter Moylan
2017-12-29 01:29:01 UTC
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Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter Moylan
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and
space available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
A lot less now compared to the Pertwee and Tom Baker eras, it must be
said. But don't forget that he has made protection of the Earth and
human beings a stated duty and priority.
The Earth, or only a small part of it?

Still, there's an excuse. There seems to be an SF convention that, when
humans settle on a new world, they almost always choose the northern
hemisphere.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
2017-12-29 03:45:45 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter Moylan
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and
space available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
A lot less now compared to the Pertwee and Tom Baker eras, it must be
said. But don't forget that he has made protection of the Earth and
human beings a stated duty and priority.
The Earth, or only a small part of it?
Still, there's an excuse. There seems to be an SF convention that, when
humans settle on a new world, they almost always choose the northern
hemisphere.
How can you tell? Are there sufficient shots of water swirling in a drain?
Mark Brader
2017-12-29 04:18:08 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Still, there's an excuse. There seems to be an SF convention that, when
humans settle on a new world, they almost always choose the northern
hemisphere.
Well, sure. That's because they saw what happened in "District 9".
--
Mark Brader "We can get ideas even from a clever man." ...
Toronto "Yes, I think you can. Even ideas you should
***@vex.net have had yourselves." -- John Dickson Carr
RH Draney
2017-12-29 06:04:25 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Still, there's an excuse. There seems to be an SF convention that, when
humans settle on a new world, they almost always choose the northern
hemisphere.
How do you count Pern?...they initially settled on the Southern
Continent, then abandoned it for the North to give the biological
tinkering they instituted to fight off Thread time to work....r
Peter Moylan
2017-12-29 06:54:09 UTC
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Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Still, there's an excuse. There seems to be an SF convention that,
when humans settle on a new world, they almost always choose the
northern hemisphere.
How do you count Pern?...they initially settled on the Southern
Continent, then abandoned it for the North to give the biological
tinkering they instituted to fight off Thread time to work....r
I have to admit that I don't have a clear memory of the geography of Pern.

(Should that be pernography?)

Once I prepared a list for someone of my recommendations of what SF was
worth reading. Some of the entries were book titles, some were authors.
One of those entries was

Anne McCaffrey: anything that doesn't mention dragons.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
RH Draney
2017-12-29 15:32:37 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Once I prepared a list for someone of my recommendations of what SF was
worth reading. Some of the entries were book titles, some were authors.
One of those entries was
     Anne McCaffrey: anything that doesn't mention dragons.
On the one occasion when I got to meet and speak with McCaffrey, I
pointed out something she was doubtless already aware of: that people
first come to the Pern books for the dragons, but it's the sociology
(the social structure and oft-conflicting sets of priorities between
Hall, Hold and Weyr) that keeps them coming back....

(She seemed pleased that I had chosen her work to introduce an
acquaintance with cerebral palsy to SF, and anticipated that the first
book selected was "The Ship Who Sang")....r
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2017-12-29 12:30:36 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter Moylan
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and
space available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
A lot less now compared to the Pertwee and Tom Baker eras, it must be
said. But don't forget that he has made protection of the Earth and
human beings a stated duty and priority.
The Earth, or only a small part of it?
Still, there's an excuse. There seems to be an SF convention that, when
humans settle on a new world, they almost always choose the northern
hemisphere.
That's not convention but logic. 88% of human beings live
in the Northern Hemisphere. If you're going to make a
splash, be it war or peace, you land in the North.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-12-28 19:44:27 UTC
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On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 03:02:06 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
England is alien territory from the viewpoint of where the show is made
- Caerdydd, Cymru (aka Cardiff, Wales).
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
RH Draney
2017-12-28 23:01:40 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 03:02:06 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
England is alien territory from the viewpoint of where the show is made
- Caerdydd, Cymru (aka Cardiff, Wales).
That was made a necessity by production requirements...when an alien
world is needed, it's important to have a stone quarry nearby....r
occam
2017-12-29 10:36:47 UTC
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Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 03:02:06 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
England is alien territory from the viewpoint of where the show is made
-  Caerdydd, Cymru (aka Cardiff, Wales).
That was made a necessity by production requirements...when an alien
world is needed, it's important to have a stone quarry nearby....r
Is there a shortage of stone quarries in Wales? Or abandoned warehouses?
I think it is the local lifeforms that define 'alien world', and
Yorkshire fits this description perfectly. Aye.
Sam Plusnet
2017-12-28 20:39:43 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I don't see a problem.
The War of the Worlds took place entirely within Surrey and London.
--
Sam Plusnet
Paul Wolff
2017-12-28 22:58:04 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I don't see a problem.
The War of the Worlds took place entirely within Surrey and London.
Chobham Common, I think. Pretty much Lynda Snell's old stamping ground,
past Sunningdale. They didn't stand a chance.
--
Paul
Sam Plusnet
2017-12-29 00:40:52 UTC
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Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I don't see a problem.
The War of the Worlds took place entirely within Surrey and London.
Chobham Common, I think. Pretty much Lynda Snell's old stamping ground,
past Sunningdale. They didn't stand a chance.
Knowing the details of Lynda's dim and distant (not to mention getting
the spelling right) will win you no favours here.
--
Sam Plusnet
LFS
2017-12-29 09:33:00 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
I don't see a problem.
The War of the Worlds took place entirely within Surrey and London.
Chobham Common, I think. Pretty much Lynda Snell's old stamping
ground, past Sunningdale. They didn't stand a chance.
Knowing the details of Lynda's dim and distant (not to mention getting
the spelling right) will win you no favours here.
I was impressed.
--
Laura (emulate St George for email)
Richard Heathfield
2017-12-28 23:33:02 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
I still haven't adapted to the fact that, with all of time and space
available, The Doctor spends so much time in England.
In the Tom Baker days, the Doctor was asked why Britain had been chosen
as the repository for the whole world's secret nuclear codes. He
explained that this was because all the other countries were foreign.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Sam Plusnet
2017-12-28 20:37:55 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by RH Draney
Post by Dingbat
13th Dr Who has Yorkshire accent
... which she won't lose on the show!
20th Dr Who, David Tennant lost his Scottish regionalisms on the show.
Amy reason for making Dr Who regional?
As noted several series ago when the topic of the Doctor's accent came
up, "a lot of planets have a north"....r
Ahh, but do they all have Yorkshires in their north?
'Appen.
--
Sam Plusnet
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