Discussion:
limerick by Lear -- There was an Old Person of Dover,
(too old to reply)
Hen Hanna
2018-06-12 19:48:30 UTC
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famous limerick by Lear

There was an Old Person of Dover,
Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
But some very large bees,
Stung his nose and his knees,
So he very soon went back to Dover.



------ I guess, some Victorians liked [very] very much.


for me, in [went back] the 2nd word is naturally stronger.

-- not to typical Victorians ?

Reading it as [WENT back] sounds Maggie Smith -ish.



> Edward Lear (12 May 1812 – 29 January 1888) was an English artist, illustrator, musician, author and poet, and is known now mostly for his literary nonsense in poetry and prose and especially his limericks, a form he popularised.
Richard Tobin
2018-06-12 23:34:03 UTC
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In article <91e1d2e0-c8cf-49bc-8211-***@googlegroups.com>,
Hen Hanna <***@gmail.com> wrote:

>famous limerick by Lear
>
>There was an Old Person of Dover,
>Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
> But some very large bees,
> Stung his nose and his knees,
>So he very soon went back to Dover.

Not a famous limerick at all.

-- Richard
Harrison Hill
2018-06-13 07:23:11 UTC
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On Wednesday, 13 June 2018 00:35:02 UTC+1, Richard Tobin wrote:
> In article <91e1d2e0-c8cf-49bc-8211-***@googlegroups.com>,
> Hen Hanna <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >famous limerick by Lear
> >
> >There was an Old Person of Dover,
> >Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
> > But some very large bees,
> > Stung his nose and his knees,
> >So he very soon went back to Dover.
>
> Not a famous limerick at all.

Agreed, and I've never heard of it. The limerick that is uppermost
in my mind:

There was an old man who screamed out
Whenever they knocked him about:
So they took off his boots,
And fed him with fruits,
And continued to knock him about.
Lothar Frings
2018-06-13 08:08:59 UTC
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Hen Hanna wrote:

> famous limerick by Lear
>
> There was an Old Person of Dover,
> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
> But some very large bees,
> Stung his nose and his knees,
> So he very soon went back to Dover.

If I may cite - as a humble German - one
from my first English textbook:
("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")

There was a young man at the Zoo
who wanted to catch the 2:02
When he came to the gate
they said "You must wait,
it's one minute or two to 2:02".
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-06-13 08:47:59 UTC
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On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:

> Hen Hanna wrote:
>
>> famous limerick by Lear
>>
>> There was an Old Person of Dover,
>> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
>> But some very large bees,
>> Stung his nose and his knees,
>> So he very soon went back to Dover.
>
> If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> from my first English textbook:
> ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")

I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
to say "two oh two".
>
> There was a young man at the Zoo
> who wanted to catch the 2:02
> When he came to the gate
> they said "You must wait,
> it's one minute or two to 2:02".


--
athel
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-06-13 09:54:05 UTC
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On Wednesday, 13 June 2018 09:48:02 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
>
> > Hen Hanna wrote:
> >
> >> famous limerick by Lear
> >>
> >> There was an Old Person of Dover,
> >> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
> >> But some very large bees,
> >> Stung his nose and his knees,
> >> So he very soon went back to Dover.
> >
> > If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> > from my first English textbook:
> > ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
>
> I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
> like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
> to say "two oh two".
> >

Huh? Clearly it 'has to' to retain the correct scansion and make the
last line work. There's no suggestion that it's a general rule that it
has to be so pronounced in any other context.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-13 12:08:01 UTC
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On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 5:54:08 AM UTC-4, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
> On Wednesday, 13 June 2018 09:48:02 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
> > > Hen Hanna wrote:

> > >> famous limerick by Lear
> > >> There was an Old Person of Dover,
> > >> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
> > >> But some very large bees,
> > >> Stung his nose and his knees,
> > >> So he very soon went back to Dover.
> > > If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> > > from my first English textbook:
> > > ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
> > I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
> > like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
> > to say "two oh two".
>
> Huh? Clearly it 'has to' to retain the correct scansion and make the
> last line work. There's no suggestion that it's a general rule that it
> has to be so pronounced in any other context.

Do English train times have to have the "and," the way your numbers do?
We can say "there are a hundred twenty months in ten years" but you have
to say "a hundred and twenty"?

Oh -- and why did you delete the actual datum we're discussing, but leave
in HH's irrelevant Lear limerick?
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-06-13 12:17:02 UTC
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On Wednesday, 13 June 2018 13:08:03 UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 5:54:08 AM UTC-4, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
> > On Wednesday, 13 June 2018 09:48:02 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > > On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
> > > > Hen Hanna wrote:
>
> > > >> famous limerick by Lear
> > > >> There was an Old Person of Dover,
> > > >> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
> > > >> But some very large bees,
> > > >> Stung his nose and his knees,
> > > >> So he very soon went back to Dover.
> > > > If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> > > > from my first English textbook:
> > > > ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
> > > I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
> > > like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
> > > to say "two oh two".
> >
> > Huh? Clearly it 'has to' to retain the correct scansion and make the
> > last line work. There's no suggestion that it's a general rule that it
> > has to be so pronounced in any other context.
>
> Do English train times have to have the "and," the way your numbers do?
> We can say "there are a hundred twenty months in ten years" but you have
> to say "a hundred and twenty"?
>
> Oh -- and why did you delete the actual datum we're discussing, but leave
> in HH's irrelevant Lear limerick?

It wasn't me!

Where would this 'and' even go in a train time? 2.02 is two minutes past two,
two-oh-two, or two two.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-13 12:36:34 UTC
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On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 8:17:04 AM UTC-4, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
> On Wednesday, 13 June 2018 13:08:03 UTC+1, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> > On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 5:54:08 AM UTC-4, Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, 13 June 2018 09:48:02 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > > > On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
> > > > > Hen Hanna wrote:

> > > > >> famous limerick by Lear
> > > > >> There was an Old Person of Dover,
> > > > >> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
> > > > >> But some very large bees,
> > > > >> Stung his nose and his knees,
> > > > >> So he very soon went back to Dover.
> > > > > If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> > > > > from my first English textbook:
> > > > > ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
> > > > I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
> > > > like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
> > > > to say "two oh two".
> > > Huh? Clearly it 'has to' to retain the correct scansion and make the
> > > last line work. There's no suggestion that it's a general rule that it
> > > has to be so pronounced in any other context.
> > Do English train times have to have the "and," the way your numbers do?
> > We can say "there are a hundred twenty months in ten years" but you have
> > to say "a hundred and twenty"?
> >
> > Oh -- and why did you delete the actual datum we're discussing, but leave
> > in HH's irrelevant Lear limerick?
>
> It wasn't me!

It was. The text is found at the end of Athel's message, the one you
replied to.

> Where would this 'and' even go in a train time? 2.02 is two minutes past two,
> two-oh-two, or two two.

The requirement of some inserted item is parallel.
Richard Tobin
2018-06-13 13:04:46 UTC
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In article <7793c985-df99-4048-bfe2-***@googlegroups.com>,
Peter T. Daniels <***@verizon.net> wrote:

>Do English train times have to have the "and," the way your numbers do?
>We can say "there are a hundred twenty months in ten years" but you have
>to say "a hundred and twenty"?

My grandmother used to say "five and twenty past two", but what other
times would need "and"?

-- Richard
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-06-13 13:12:06 UTC
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On 2018-06-13 09:54:05 +0000, Madrigal Gurneyhalt said:

> On Wednesday, 13 June 2018 09:48:02 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
>>
>>> Hen Hanna wrote:
>>>
>>>> famous limerick by Lear
>>>>
>>>> There was an Old Person of Dover,
>>>> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
>>>> But some very large bees,
>>>> Stung his nose and his knees,
>>>> So he very soon went back to Dover.
>>>
>>> If I may cite - as a humble German - one
>>> from my first English textbook:
>>> ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
>>
>> I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
>> like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
>> to say "two oh two".
>>>
>
> Huh? Clearly it 'has to' to retain the correct scansion and make the
> last line work. There's no suggestion that it's a general rule that it
> has to be so pronounced in any other context.

Of course there is this suggestion, because he cited the "rule" before
he gave the example.




--
athel
Joy Beeson
2018-06-19 21:47:47 UTC
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On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 15:12:06 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<***@imm.cnrs.fr> wrote:

> Of course there is this suggestion, because he cited the "rule" before
> he gave the example.

So that we could read the limerick correctly.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
Lothar Frings
2018-06-13 14:40:41 UTC
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Madrigal Gurneyhalt wrote:

> On Wednesday, 13 June 2018 09:48:02 UTC+1, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
> > On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
> >
> > > Hen Hanna wrote:
> > >
> > >> famous limerick by Lear
> > >>
> > >> There was an Old Person of Dover,
> > >> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
> > >> But some very large bees,
> > >> Stung his nose and his knees,
> > >> So he very soon went back to Dover.
> > >
> > > If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> > > from my first English textbook:
> > > ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
> >
> > I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
> > like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
> > to say "two oh two".
> > >
>
> Huh? Clearly it 'has to' to retain the correct scansion and make the
> last line work. There's no suggestion that it's a general rule that it
> has to be so pronounced in any other context.

You're right. "Has to" means that
it has to be pronounced like this for
the limerick to work, not because the
English language requires it.

I was taught several wrong things
about the English language, though...
HVS
2018-06-13 14:04:02 UTC
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On 13 Jun 2018, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote

> On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
>
>> Hen Hanna wrote:
>>
>>> famous limerick by Lear
>>>
>>> There was an Old Person of Dover,
>>> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
>>> But some very large bees,
>>> Stung his nose and his knees,
>>> So he very soon went back to Dover.
>>
>> If I may cite - as a humble German - one
>> from my first English textbook:
>> ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
>
> I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
> like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
> to say "two oh two".
>>
>> There was a young man at the Zoo
>> who wanted to catch the 2:02
>> When he came to the gate
>> they said "You must wait,
>> it's one minute or two to 2:02".

One I recall is:

There once was a fellow named Tate
Who dined with his girl at 8:08
I'm sorry to state
That I cannot relate
What Tate and his tete-a-tete ate at 8:08.

In that one, the second "8:08" obviously has to be pronounced "eight-
eight". (The first one could be "eight-oh-eight" or "eight past eight",
but that screws up the scansion.)

--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
Jerry Friedman
2018-06-13 14:16:31 UTC
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On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 8:04:09 AM UTC-6, HVS wrote:
> On 13 Jun 2018, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote
>
> > On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
> >
> >> Hen Hanna wrote:
> >>
> >>> famous limerick by Lear
> >>>
> >>> There was an Old Person of Dover,
> >>> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
> >>> But some very large bees,
> >>> Stung his nose and his knees,
> >>> So he very soon went back to Dover.
> >>
> >> If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> >> from my first English textbook:
> >> ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
> >
> > I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
> > like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
> > to say "two oh two".
> >>
> >> There was a young man at the Zoo
> >> who wanted to catch the 2:02
> >> When he came to the gate
> >> they said "You must wait,
> >> it's one minute or two to 2:02".
>
> One I recall is:
>
> There once was a fellow named Tate
> Who dined with his girl at 8:08
> I'm sorry to state
> That I cannot relate
> What Tate and his tete-a-tete ate at 8:08.
>
> In that one, the second "8:08" obviously has to be pronounced "eight-
> eight". (The first one could be "eight-oh-eight" or "eight past eight",
> but that screws up the scansion.)

Speaking of which, Lothar's example reminded me of that limerick too,
but this seems to be the original version:

There was a young person named Tate
Who went out to dine at 8.8.
But I'd hate to relate
What that person named Tate
And his tete-a-tete ate at 8.8.

The other one I know in this sub-genre of piling up similar syllables
is

A tutor who tooted the flute
Tried to teach two young tooters to toot.
Said the two to the tutor,
Is it harder to toot, or
To tutor two tooters to toot?

This site attributes both of those to one Carolyn Wells.

https://digitalcommons.butler.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=2448&context=wordways

(Sorry, I don't know how to fix that URL.)

--
Jerry Friedman
CDB
2018-06-13 14:57:35 UTC
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On 6/13/2018 10:16 AM, Jerry Friedman wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 8:04:09 AM UTC-6, HVS wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2018, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote
>>> On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
>>>> Hen Hanna wrote:

>>>>> famous limerick by Lear

>>>>> There was an Old Person of Dover, Who rushed through a field
>>>>> of blue Clover; But some very large bees, Stung his nose and
>>>>> his knees, So he very soon went back to Dover.

>>>> If I may cite - as a humble German - one from my first English
>>>> textbook: ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")

>>> I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_
>>> be said like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be
>>> much more likely to say "two oh two".

>>>> There was a young man at the Zoo who wanted to catch the 2:02
>>>> When he came to the gate they said "You must wait, it's one
>>>> minute or two to 2:02".

>> One I recall is:

>> There once was a fellow named Tate Who dined with his girl at 8:08
>> I'm sorry to state That I cannot relate What Tate and his
>> tete-a-tete ate at 8:08.

>> In that one, the second "8:08" obviously has to be pronounced
>> "eight- eight". (The first one could be "eight-oh-eight" or
>> "eight past eight", but that screws up the scansion.)

> Speaking of which, Lothar's example reminded me of that limerick too,
> but this seems to be the original version:

> There was a young person named Tate Who went out to dine at 8.8. But
> I'd hate to relate What that person named Tate And his tete-a-tete
> ate at 8.8.

> The other one I know in this sub-genre of piling up similar syllables
> is

> A tutor who tooted the flute Tried to teach two young tooters to
> toot. Said the two to the tutor, Is it harder to toot, or To tutor
> two tooters to toot?

> This site attributes both of those to one Carolyn Wells.

> https://digitalcommons.butler.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=2448&context=wordways

> (Sorry, I don't know how to fix that URL.)

A canner exceedingly canny
One morning remarked to his granny
"A canner can can
Anything that he can,
But a canner can't can a can, can he?"
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-06-13 16:58:58 UTC
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On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 07:16:31 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
<***@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 8:04:09 AM UTC-6, HVS wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2018, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote
>>
>> > On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
>> >
>> >> Hen Hanna wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> famous limerick by Lear
>> >>>
>> >>> There was an Old Person of Dover,
>> >>> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
>> >>> But some very large bees,
>> >>> Stung his nose and his knees,
>> >>> So he very soon went back to Dover.
>> >>
>> >> If I may cite - as a humble German - one
>> >> from my first English textbook:
>> >> ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
>> >
>> > I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
>> > like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
>> > to say "two oh two".
>> >>
>> >> There was a young man at the Zoo
>> >> who wanted to catch the 2:02
>> >> When he came to the gate
>> >> they said "You must wait,
>> >> it's one minute or two to 2:02".
>>
>> One I recall is:
>>
>> There once was a fellow named Tate
>> Who dined with his girl at 8:08
>> I'm sorry to state
>> That I cannot relate
>> What Tate and his tete-a-tete ate at 8:08.
>>
>> In that one, the second "8:08" obviously has to be pronounced "eight-
>> eight". (The first one could be "eight-oh-eight" or "eight past eight",
>> but that screws up the scansion.)
>
>Speaking of which, Lothar's example reminded me of that limerick too,
>but this seems to be the original version:
>
>There was a young person named Tate
>Who went out to dine at 8.8.
> But I'd hate to relate
> What that person named Tate
>And his tete-a-tete ate at 8.8.
>
>The other one I know in this sub-genre of piling up similar syllables
>is
>
>A tutor who tooted the flute
>Tried to teach two young tooters to toot.
> Said the two to the tutor,
> Is it harder to toot, or
>To tutor two tooters to toot?
>
>This site attributes both of those to one Carolyn Wells.
>
>https://digitalcommons.butler.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=2448&context=wordways
>
>(Sorry, I don't know how to fix that URL.)

I made a guess at what to delete from that url. This works (to my
surprise):
https://digitalcommons.butler.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2448&context=wordways

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
s***@gmail.com
2018-06-13 20:43:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 9:59:05 AM UTC-7, PeterWD wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 07:16:31 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 8:04:09 AM UTC-6, HVS wrote:
> >> On 13 Jun 2018, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote
> >>
> >> > On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
> >> >
> >> >> Hen Hanna wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> famous limerick by Lear
> >> >>>
> >> >>> There was an Old Person of Dover,
> >> >>> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
> >> >>> But some very large bees,
> >> >>> Stung his nose and his knees,
> >> >>> So he very soon went back to Dover.
> >> >>
> >> >> If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> >> >> from my first English textbook:
> >> >> ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
> >> >
> >> > I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
> >> > like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
> >> > to say "two oh two".
> >> >>
> >> >> There was a young man at the Zoo
> >> >> who wanted to catch the 2:02
> >> >> When he came to the gate
> >> >> they said "You must wait,
> >> >> it's one minute or two to 2:02".
> >>
> >> One I recall is:
> >>
> >> There once was a fellow named Tate
> >> Who dined with his girl at 8:08
> >> I'm sorry to state
> >> That I cannot relate
> >> What Tate and his tete-a-tete ate at 8:08.
> >>
> >> In that one, the second "8:08" obviously has to be pronounced "eight-
> >> eight". (The first one could be "eight-oh-eight" or "eight past eight",
> >> but that screws up the scansion.)
> >
> >Speaking of which, Lothar's example reminded me of that limerick too,
> >but this seems to be the original version:
> >
> >There was a young person named Tate
> >Who went out to dine at 8.8.
> > But I'd hate to relate
> > What that person named Tate
> >And his tete-a-tete ate at 8.8.
> >
> >The other one I know in this sub-genre of piling up similar syllables
> >is
> >
> >A tutor who tooted the flute
> >Tried to teach two young tooters to toot.
> > Said the two to the tutor,
> > Is it harder to toot, or
> >To tutor two tooters to toot?
> >
> >This site attributes both of those to one Carolyn Wells.
> >
> >https://digitalcommons.butler.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=2448&context=wordways
> >
> >(Sorry, I don't know how to fix that URL.)
>
> I made a guess at what to delete from that url. This works (to my
> surprise):
> https://digitalcommons.butler.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2448&context=wordways

Yep. The context is necessary, perhaps as an indication of where the article is stored (filed, archived, pigeon-holed). Easy to guess that referer can disappear and the httpsredir=1 probably says "don't do http:, use SSL".

/dps
Ken Blake
2018-06-14 15:25:06 UTC
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Raw Message
On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 17:58:58 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
<***@peterduncanson.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 07:16:31 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
><***@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 8:04:09 AM UTC-6, HVS wrote:
>>> On 13 Jun 2018, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote
>>>
>>> > On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
>>> >
>>> >> Hen Hanna wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> famous limerick by Lear
>>> >>>
>>> >>> There was an Old Person of Dover,
>>> >>> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
>>> >>> But some very large bees,
>>> >>> Stung his nose and his knees,
>>> >>> So he very soon went back to Dover.
>>> >>
>>> >> If I may cite - as a humble German - one
>>> >> from my first English textbook:
>>> >> ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
>>> >
>>> > I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
>>> > like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
>>> > to say "two oh two".
>>> >>
>>> >> There was a young man at the Zoo
>>> >> who wanted to catch the 2:02
>>> >> When he came to the gate
>>> >> they said "You must wait,
>>> >> it's one minute or two to 2:02".
>>>
>>> One I recall is:
>>>
>>> There once was a fellow named Tate
>>> Who dined with his girl at 8:08
>>> I'm sorry to state
>>> That I cannot relate
>>> What Tate and his tete-a-tete ate at 8:08.
>>>
>>> In that one, the second "8:08" obviously has to be pronounced "eight-
>>> eight". (The first one could be "eight-oh-eight" or "eight past eight",
>>> but that screws up the scansion.)
>>
>>Speaking of which, Lothar's example reminded me of that limerick too,
>>but this seems to be the original version:
>>
>>There was a young person named Tate
>>Who went out to dine at 8.8.
>> But I'd hate to relate
>> What that person named Tate
>>And his tete-a-tete ate at 8.8.
>>
>>The other one I know in this sub-genre of piling up similar syllables
>>is
>>
>>A tutor who tooted the flute
>>Tried to teach two young tooters to toot.
>> Said the two to the tutor,
>> Is it harder to toot, or
>>To tutor two tooters to toot?




A flea and a fly in a flue
Were imprisoned, so what could they do?
Said the flea, let us fly
Said the fly, let us flee
So they flew through a flaw in the flue.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-14 16:52:32 UTC
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Raw Message
On Thursday, June 14, 2018 at 11:25:17 AM UTC-4, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 17:58:58 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
> <***@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
> >On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 07:16:31 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> ><***@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 8:04:09 AM UTC-6, HVS wrote:
> >>> On 13 Jun 2018, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote
> >>> > On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
> >>> >> Hen Hanna wrote:

> >>> >>> famous limerick by Lear
> >>> >>> There was an Old Person of Dover,
> >>> >>> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
> >>> >>> But some very large bees,
> >>> >>> Stung his nose and his knees,
> >>> >>> So he very soon went back to Dover.
> >>> >> If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> >>> >> from my first English textbook:
> >>> >> ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
> >>> > I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
> >>> > like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
> >>> > to say "two oh two".
> >>> >> There was a young man at the Zoo
> >>> >> who wanted to catch the 2:02
> >>> >> When he came to the gate
> >>> >> they said "You must wait,
> >>> >> it's one minute or two to 2:02".
> >>> One I recall is:
> >>> There once was a fellow named Tate
> >>> Who dined with his girl at 8:08
> >>> I'm sorry to state
> >>> That I cannot relate
> >>> What Tate and his tete-a-tete ate at 8:08.
> >>> In that one, the second "8:08" obviously has to be pronounced "eight-
> >>> eight". (The first one could be "eight-oh-eight" or "eight past eight",
> >>> but that screws up the scansion.)
> >>Speaking of which, Lothar's example reminded me of that limerick too,
> >>but this seems to be the original version:
> >>There was a young person named Tate
> >>Who went out to dine at 8.8.
> >> But I'd hate to relate
> >> What that person named Tate
> >>And his tete-a-tete ate at 8.8.
> >>The other one I know in this sub-genre of piling up similar syllables
> >>is
> >>A tutor who tooted the flute
> >>Tried to teach two young tooters to toot.
> >> Said the two to the tutor,
> >> Is it harder to toot, or
> >>To tutor two tooters to toot?
>
> A flea and a fly in a flue
> Were imprisoned, so what could they do?
> Said the flea, let us fly
> Said the fly, let us flee
> So they flew through a flaw in the flue.

Good grief.

A fly and a flea in a flue
Were imprisoned, so what could they do?
Let us fly! said the flea.
Said the fly, let us flee!
So they flew through a flaw in the flue.
RH Draney
2018-06-14 21:42:15 UTC
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Raw Message
On 6/14/2018 9:52 AM, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Thursday, June 14, 2018 at 11:25:17 AM UTC-4, Ken Blake wrote:
>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 17:58:58 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
>> <***@peterduncanson.net> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 07:16:31 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
>>> <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

>>>> There was a young person named Tate
>>>> Who went out to dine at 8.8.
>>>> But I'd hate to relate
>>>> What that person named Tate
>>>> And his tete-a-tete ate at 8.8.
>>>> The other one I know in this sub-genre of piling up similar syllables
>>>> is
>>>> A tutor who tooted the flute
>>>> Tried to teach two young tooters to toot.
>>>> Said the two to the tutor,
>>>> Is it harder to toot, or
>>>> To tutor two tooters to toot?
>>
>> A flea and a fly in a flue
>> Were imprisoned, so what could they do?
>> Said the flea, let us fly
>> Said the fly, let us flee
>> So they flew through a flaw in the flue.
>
> Good grief.
>
> A fly and a flea in a flue
> Were imprisoned, so what could they do?
> Let us fly! said the flea.
> Said the fly, let us flee!
> So they flew through a flaw in the flue.

And then there was:

There was a young man named Beebe
Who was to wed a young lady named Phoebe.
“But first I must see
What the minister’s fee
Be before Phoebe be Phoebe Beebe.”

Apologies for the crummy scansion...the version I remember was better,
and had "the clerical fee" rather than the minister's, but I couldn't
find a pasteable sample....r
Jerry Friedman
2018-06-15 01:19:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 6/13/18 10:58 AM, Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2018 07:16:31 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
> <***@yahoo.com> wrote:

[two limericks]

>> This site attributes both of those to one Carolyn Wells.
>>
>> https://digitalcommons.butler.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=2448&context=wordways
>>
>> (Sorry, I don't know how to fix that URL.)
>
> I made a guess at what to delete from that url. This works (to my
> surprise):
> https://digitalcommons.butler.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2448&context=wordways

Thanks.

--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-13 16:44:10 UTC
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Raw Message
On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 10:04:09 AM UTC-4, HVS wrote:
> On 13 Jun 2018, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote
> > On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
> >> Hen Hanna wrote:

> >>> famous limerick by Lear
> >>>
> >>> There was an Old Person of Dover,
> >>> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
> >>> But some very large bees,
> >>> Stung his nose and his knees,
> >>> So he very soon went back to Dover.
> >>
> >> If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> >> from my first English textbook:
> >> ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
> >
> > I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
> > like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
> > to say "two oh two".
> >>
> >> There was a young man at the Zoo
> >> who wanted to catch the 2:02
> >> When he came to the gate
> >> they said "You must wait,
> >> it's one minute or two to 2:02".
>
> One I recall is:
>
> There once was a fellow named Tate
> Who dined with his girl at 8:08
> I'm sorry to state
> That I cannot relate
> What Tate and his tete-a-tete ate at 8:08.
>
> In that one, the second "8:08" obviously has to be pronounced "eight-
> eight". (The first one could be "eight-oh-eight" or "eight past eight",
> but that screws up the scansion.)

The last line already does that.
Katy Jennison
2018-06-13 18:34:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On 13/06/2018 17:44, Peter T. Daniels wrote:
> On Wednesday, June 13, 2018 at 10:04:09 AM UTC-4, HVS wrote:
>> On 13 Jun 2018, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote
>>> On 2018-06-13 08:08:59 +0000, Lothar Frings said:
>>>> Hen Hanna wrote:
>
>>>>> famous limerick by Lear
>>>>>
>>>>> There was an Old Person of Dover,
>>>>> Who rushed through a field of blue Clover;
>>>>> But some very large bees,
>>>>> Stung his nose and his knees,
>>>>> So he very soon went back to Dover.
>>>>
>>>> If I may cite - as a humble German - one
>>>> from my first English textbook:
>>>> ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
>>>
>>> I think your first English textbook was mistaken. OK, it _can_ be said
>>> like that, but there is no "has to" about it. I'd be much more likely
>>> to say "two oh two".
>>>>
>>>> There was a young man at the Zoo
>>>> who wanted to catch the 2:02
>>>> When he came to the gate
>>>> they said "You must wait,
>>>> it's one minute or two to 2:02".
>>
>> One I recall is:
>>
>> There once was a fellow named Tate
>> Who dined with his girl at 8:08
>> I'm sorry to state
>> That I cannot relate
>> What Tate and his tete-a-tete ate at 8:08.
>>
>> In that one, the second "8:08" obviously has to be pronounced "eight-
>> eight". (The first one could be "eight-oh-eight" or "eight past eight",
>> but that screws up the scansion.)
>
> The last line already does that.
>

I thought that too, initially, but I managed to twiddle something in my
brain so it didn't.

Dah DEE-da-da Dee-da-da DEE-da-da dee.

(Tip: the vodka martini at my elbow helps.)

--
Katy Jennison
Mark Brader
2018-06-15 00:37:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Lothar Frings:
> If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> from my first English textbook:
> ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")

In some older British writing it would've been written that way,
i.e. as "2.2" with no leading zero on the minutes (and a "." as the
separator): http://www.ewyaslacy.org.uk/images/db/i53168b20132ae.jpg
So the pronunciation "two-two" was then natural.
--
Mark Brader "I used to own a mind like a steel trap.
Toronto Perhaps if I'd specified a brass one, it
***@vex.net wouldn't have rusted like this." --Greg Goss
"I have a mind like a steel trap.
It's hard to pry open." --Michael Wares

My text in this article is in the public domain.
HVS
2018-06-15 11:54:32 UTC
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Raw Message
On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 19:37:46 -0500, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> Lothar Frings:
> > If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> > from my first English textbook:
> > ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")


> In some older British writing it would've been written that way,
> i.e. as "2.2" with no leading zero on the minutes (and a "." as the
> separator): http://www.ewyaslacy.org.uk/images/db/i53168b20132ae.jpg
> So the pronunciation "two-two" was then natural.

Cricket scoring convention annoys me.

The six deliveries of, say, the fourth over is annotated as 3.1, 3.2,
3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 4

Try as I might, I don't like three-and-a-half overs being written as
"3.3".
HVS
2018-06-15 11:56:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 12:54:32 +0100, HVS
<***@REMOVE-THISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 19:37:46 -0500, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> > Lothar Frings:
> > > If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> > > from my first English textbook:
> > > ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")




> > In some older British writing it would've been written that way,
> > i.e. as "2.2" with no leading zero on the minutes (and a "." as
the
> > separator):
http://www.ewyaslacy.org.uk/images/db/i53168b20132ae.jpg
> > So the pronunciation "two-two" was then natural.


> Cricket scoring convention annoys me.


> The six deliveries of, say, the fourth over is annotated as 3.1,
3.2,
> 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 4


> Try as I might, I don't like three-and-a-half overs being written
as
> "3.3".

Sorry for the "six deliveries,,, is". Editing typo.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-06-15 14:50:24 UTC
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Raw Message
On Friday, 15 June 2018 12:56:54 UTC+1, HVS wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2018 12:54:32 +0100, HVS
> <***@REMOVE-THISwhhvs.co.uk> wrote:
> > On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 19:37:46 -0500, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> > > Lothar Frings:
> > > > If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> > > > from my first English textbook:
> > > > ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
>
>
>
>
> > > In some older British writing it would've been written that way,
> > > i.e. as "2.2" with no leading zero on the minutes (and a "." as
> the
> > > separator):
> http://www.ewyaslacy.org.uk/images/db/i53168b20132ae.jpg
> > > So the pronunciation "two-two" was then natural.
>
>
> > Cricket scoring convention annoys me.
>
>
> > The six deliveries of, say, the fourth over is annotated as 3.1,
> 3.2,
> > 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 4
>
>
> > Try as I might, I don't like three-and-a-half overs being written
> as
> > "3.3".
>
> Sorry for the "six deliveries,,, is". Editing typo.

What possible objection can you have? And how else would you
do it? '.' is not, though some people seem to think otherwise,
used exclusively as a decimal point.
Anders D. Nygaard
2018-06-15 22:20:33 UTC
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Raw Message
Den 15-06-2018 kl. 13:54 skrev HVS:
> On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 19:37:46 -0500, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
>> Lothar Frings:
>> > If I may cite - as a humble German - one
>> > from my first English textbook:
>> > ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
>
>
>> In some older British writing it would've been written that way,
>> i.e. as "2.2" with no leading zero on the minutes (and a "." as the
>> separator): http://www.ewyaslacy.org.uk/images/db/i53168b20132ae.jpg
>> So the pronunciation "two-two" was then natural.
>
> Cricket scoring convention annoys me.
> The six deliveries of, say, the fourth over is annotated as 3.1, 3.2,
> 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 4
>
> Try as I might, I don't like three-and-a-half overs being written as "3.3".

Actuaries seem to like to give ages in months, so someone of age 46.6
is forty-six and a half years old.
Yes, you can also be age 46.10 and 46.11.

/Anders, Denmark.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-16 01:56:57 UTC
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On Friday, June 15, 2018 at 6:20:36 PM UTC-4, Anders D. Nygaard wrote:
> Den 15-06-2018 kl. 13:54 skrev HVS:
> > On Thu, 14 Jun 2018 19:37:46 -0500, ***@vex.net (Mark Brader) wrote:
> >> Lothar Frings:
> >> > If I may cite - as a humble German - one
> >> > from my first English textbook:
> >> > ("2:02" has to be read as "two-two")
> >
> >
> >> In some older British writing it would've been written that way,
> >> i.e. as "2.2" with no leading zero on the minutes (and a "." as the
> >> separator): http://www.ewyaslacy.org.uk/images/db/i53168b20132ae.jpg
> >> So the pronunciation "two-two" was then natural.
> >
> > Cricket scoring convention annoys me.
> > The six deliveries of, say, the fourth over is annotated as 3.1, 3.2,
> > 3.3, 3.4, 3.5, 4
> >
> > Try as I might, I don't like three-and-a-half overs being written as "3.3".
>
> Actuaries seem to like to give ages in months, so someone of age 46.6
> is forty-six and a half years old.
> Yes, you can also be age 46.10 and 46.11.

In psychology and other studies of children, ages are usually given as
46;6, 46;10, 46;11. (Though for 46-year-olds, their age down to the month
is unlikely to be relevant.)
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