Discussion:
Why is Worcester MA Mispronounced as "Wooster"
(too old to reply)
Larry R Harrison Jr
2004-08-01 22:51:45 UTC
Permalink
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?

It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur". Instead it's
MIS-pronounced as "wooster."

Why?

Larry
Michael Nitabach
2004-08-01 23:33:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur". Instead it's
MIS-pronounced as "wooster."
Why?
Why not?
--
Mike Nitabach
John Dawkins
2004-08-02 00:17:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur". Instead it's
MIS-pronounced as "wooster."
Why?
To confuse DE781.
--
J.
DE781
2004-08-02 00:53:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Dawkins
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur". Instead it's
MIS-pronounced as "wooster."
Why?
To confuse DE781.
I don't understand what I have to do with it...
Dylan Nicholson
2004-08-02 00:56:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by DE781
Post by John Dawkins
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur". Instead it's
MIS-pronounced as "wooster."
Why?
To confuse DE781.
I don't understand what I have to do with it...
So it worked then.
DE781
2004-08-02 01:35:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by DE781
I don't understand what I have to do with it...
So it worked then.
I am SOOOO confused right now...help!
Robert Bannister
2004-08-02 01:43:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur". Instead it's
MIS-pronounced as "wooster."
What silly person would thing that? You could reasonably expect it to be
pronounced "woo-sses-tuh", but if you said it quickly, the middle 'e'
would soon disappear, so you don't even need to compare it with the
English city of the same name and pronunciation.
--
Rob Bannister
Joachim Herzog
2004-08-02 01:43:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
--
Joachim
Robert Bannister
2004-08-02 01:52:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some Worcester sauce.
--
Rob Bannister
Joachim Herzog
2004-08-02 01:57:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some Worcester sauce.
Pronounced wor-kes-tur saw-key presumably.
--
Joachim
Skitt
2004-08-02 02:25:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
Dylan Nicholson
2004-08-02 02:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
--
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know the
difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
Skitt
2004-08-02 02:39:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some
Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know
the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
--
Skitt (in Hayward, California)
www.geocities.com/opus731/
Dylan Nicholson
2004-08-02 02:42:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Skitt
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know
the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on sausage
rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
And extremely useful in cooking.
Oddly, even though I've always seen it written as "Worcestershire sauce", I
pretty much always pronounce it "Worcester", presumably to avoid it spraying
it rather than saying it.
Christopher Johnson
2004-08-02 03:51:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know
the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on sausage
rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
No such thing in AmE, I'm afraid. They (Americans) don't know
what they're missing, do they? Oh well, you can't miss what
you've never known, I suppose! :-)
Post by Dylan Nicholson
And extremely useful in cooking.
Oddly, even though I've always seen it written as "Worcestershire sauce", I
pretty much always pronounce it "Worcester", presumably to avoid it spraying
it rather than saying it.
We always call it "'Lea & Perrins'" in *our* house.
--
Christopher ('CJ')

(Change 3032 to 7777 for e-mail)
Charles Riggs
2004-08-02 05:37:36 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 03:51:41 GMT, Christopher Johnson
Post by Christopher Johnson
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know
the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on sausage
rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
No such thing in AmE, I'm afraid.
He was referring to sausage buns, not that all Americans call them
that.
Post by Christopher Johnson
They (Americans) don't know
what they're missing, do they? Oh well, you can't miss what
you've never known, I suppose! :-)
You don't know what you're missing either, unless you've been at least
as far east as Germany. Your snide remark about Americans fell
especially short this time.
--
Charles Riggs
Christopher Johnson
2004-08-02 12:47:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Riggs
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 03:51:41 GMT, Christopher Johnson
Post by Christopher Johnson
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some
Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know
the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on sausage
rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
No such thing in AmE, I'm afraid.
He was referring to sausage buns, not that all Americans call them
that.
Rubbish, Charles. A sausage roll is made from *pastry*
and so could not be (correctly) referred to as a 'bun',
which, by definition, is made from bread. You appear
not to know what a 'sausage roll' is, Charles.
Post by Charles Riggs
Post by Christopher Johnson
They (Americans) don't know
what they're missing, do they? Oh well, you can't miss what
you've never known, I suppose! :-)
You don't know what you're missing either, unless you've been at least
as far east as Germany.
I've been to many European countries, including Poland.
Post by Charles Riggs
Your snide remark about Americans fell
especially short this time.
I'm sorry you found my remark to be snide, Charles. It
certainly was not intended to be so. Nevertheless, I
have re-read what I wrote but I found there to be nothing
snide about it whatsoever. You are simply over-sensitive
sometimes, and I stand by every single word I wrote.
--
Christopher ('CJ')

(Change 3032 to 7777 for e-mail)
Christopher Johnson
2004-08-02 12:52:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher Johnson
Post by Charles Riggs
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 03:51:41 GMT, Christopher Johnson
Post by Christopher Johnson
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some
Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know
the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on sausage
rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
No such thing in AmE, I'm afraid.
He was referring to sausage buns, not that all Americans call them
that.
Rubbish, Charles. A sausage roll is made from *pastry*
and so could not be (correctly) referred to as a 'bun',
which, by definition, is made from bread. You appear
not to know what a 'sausage roll' is, Charles.
See: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=69960&dict=CALD
--
Christopher ('CJ')

(Change 3032 to 7777 for e-mail)
Charles Riggs
2004-08-03 07:12:06 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 12:47:48 GMT, Christopher Johnson
Post by Christopher Johnson
Post by Charles Riggs
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 03:51:41 GMT, Christopher Johnson
Post by Christopher Johnson
Post by Dylan Nicholson
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on sausage
rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
No such thing in AmE, I'm afraid.
He was referring to sausage buns, not that all Americans call them
that.
Rubbish, Charles. A sausage roll is made from *pastry*
and so could not be (correctly) referred to as a 'bun',
which, by definition, is made from bread. You appear
not to know what a 'sausage roll' is, Charles.
I know better than you, being infinitely older, thus having time to
consume an infinitely greater number of both sausages and hamburgers,
but many Americans don't call sausage rolls by that term. That was the
point, since you missed it. 'Hot dog buns', if AUEers are right, is
preferred over 'hot dog rolls' in America: something you'd know if you
were paying attention a few months back.

You do know, I hope, than the bread that often encloses a hamburger
patty is correctly termed a *bun*, made from 'pastry', as you put it.
Post by Christopher Johnson
Post by Charles Riggs
Post by Christopher Johnson
They (Americans) don't know
what they're missing, do they? Oh well, you can't miss what
you've never known, I suppose! :-)
You don't know what you're missing either, unless you've been at least
as far east as Germany.
I've been to many European countries, including Poland.
Sorry. Since you keep telling us how your parents restrict your
movements, I didn't realise P and M let you out of the backyard. I
hope you enjoyed Poland more than you have America.
Post by Christopher Johnson
Post by Charles Riggs
Your snide remark about Americans fell
especially short this time.
I'm sorry you found my remark to be snide, Charles. It
certainly was not intended to be so. Nevertheless, I
have re-read what I wrote but I found there to be nothing
snide about it whatsoever.
ObAUE: please check this out:

1 in the COD -- 'derogatory or mocking in an indirect way.'

You don't frequently knock Americans, especially their English? Same
old, same old, was all I was saying.
Post by Christopher Johnson
You are simply over-sensitive
sometimes, and I stand by every single word I wrote.
You're the kid here, we're the adults. A concept, yes a concept, Coop,
you might consider. You don't tell me or anyone else here we're
'simply over-sensitive'. You haven't met the tiniest fraction of the
people I have, or that most of us have, so you're not in the best of
positions to judge character.
--
Charles Riggs
Charles Riggs
2004-08-02 05:31:21 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 12:42:54 +1000, "Dylan Nicholson"
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know
the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on sausage
rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
And extremely useful in cooking.
Great stuff, but if I were limited to one sauce, I'd pick soy: again,
excellent both when cooking and as a condiment.
--
Charles Riggs
Michael Nitabach
2004-08-02 17:59:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you
know the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on
sausage rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
What do you mean by sausage roll?

A sausage roll in the northeast United States is usually a piece of
Italian sausage and some mozzarella cheese rolled in pizza dough and
baked in a pizza oven. Sauteed onions and sweet peppers can be
included as well. It would never occur to me to put Worcestershire
sauce on this kind of sausage roll.
--
Mike Nitabach
Matti Lamprhey
2004-08-02 18:56:23 UTC
Permalink
(re: Worcestershire sauce)
Post by Dylan Nicholson
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on
sausage rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
What do you mean by sausage roll?
In Britain, a sausage roll is unambiguously a small cylinder of sausage
meat wrapped in a puff-pastry jacket, usually consumed as a canapé.

See some here:
http://www.sausagelinks.co.uk/sausage_rolls_recipes.asp

Matti
A sausage roll in the northeast United States is usually a piece of
Italian sausage and some mozzarella cheese rolled in pizza dough and
baked in a pizza oven. Sauteed onions and sweet peppers can be
included as well. It would never occur to me to put Worcestershire
sauce on this kind of sausage roll.
david56
2004-08-02 19:41:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matti Lamprhey
(re: Worcestershire sauce)
Post by Dylan Nicholson
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on
sausage rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
What do you mean by sausage roll?
In Britain, a sausage roll is unambiguously a small cylinder of sausage
meat wrapped in a puff-pastry jacket, usually consumed as a canapé.
http://www.sausagelinks.co.uk/sausage_rolls_recipes.asp
Gosh, what dainty sweetmeats. A breakfast sausage roll at my work's
canteen is about 9" long and oozes fat. I have seen people eat two
to get them started in the morning.
--
David
=====
Michael Nitabach
2004-08-02 20:10:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by david56
Post by Matti Lamprhey
(re: Worcestershire sauce)
Post by Dylan Nicholson
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially
good on sausage rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
What do you mean by sausage roll?
In Britain, a sausage roll is unambiguously a small cylinder of
sausage meat wrapped in a puff-pastry jacket, usually consumed as
a canapé.
http://www.sausagelinks.co.uk/sausage_rolls_recipes.asp
Gosh, what dainty sweetmeats. A breakfast sausage roll at my
work's canteen is about 9" long and oozes fat. I have seen people
eat two to get them started in the morning.
The ones pictured are most like what are called "pigs in a blanket"
in the US.
--
Mike Nitabach
Mark Raymond
2004-08-03 01:05:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matti Lamprhey
(re: Worcestershire sauce)
Post by Dylan Nicholson
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on
sausage rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
What do you mean by sausage roll?
In Britain, a sausage roll is unambiguously a small cylinder of sausage
meat wrapped in a puff-pastry jacket, usually consumed as a canapé.
http://www.sausagelinks.co.uk/sausage_rolls_recipes.asp
Matti
A sausage roll in the northeast United States is usually a piece of
Italian sausage and some mozzarella cheese rolled in pizza dough and
baked in a pizza oven. Sauteed onions and sweet peppers can be
included as well. It would never occur to me to put Worcestershire
sauce on this kind of sausage roll.
The little bits of frivolity depicted in the link are well known to me
... but only as the "party" variety, and a kid's birthday party at
that! Now a REAL sausage roll, whilst of the same recipe and
cross-section, is a good six inches long!

***@work, and thinking of popping down to the canteen to get a (one
is more than enough!) sausage roll for lunch.
Christopher Johnson
2004-08-02 22:03:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Nitabach
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you
know the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on
sausage rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
What do you mean by sausage roll?
A sausage roll in the northeast United States is usually a piece of
Italian sausage and some mozzarella cheese rolled in pizza dough and
baked in a pizza oven. Sauteed onions and sweet peppers can be
included as well. It would never occur to me to put Worcestershire
sauce on this kind of sausage roll.
That's not what he meant by 'sausage roll'. You and Charles
obviously don't have a clue.
--
Christopher ('CJ')

(Change 3032 to 7777 for e-mail)
Charles Riggs
2004-08-03 07:12:07 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 22:03:31 GMT, Christopher Johnson
Post by Christopher Johnson
Post by Michael Nitabach
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some
Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you
know the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on
sausage rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
What do you mean by sausage roll?
A sausage roll in the northeast United States is usually a piece of
Italian sausage and some mozzarella cheese rolled in pizza dough and
baked in a pizza oven. Sauteed onions and sweet peppers can be
included as well. It would never occur to me to put Worcestershire
sauce on this kind of sausage roll.
That's not what he meant by 'sausage roll'. You and Charles
obviously don't have a clue.
Piss off, Christopher.
--
Charles Riggs
Christopher Johnson
2004-08-03 09:05:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Riggs
Piss off, Christopher.
You know what, Charles, I think I will do just that. I admit to
finding it extremely difficult to respect condescending adults
who rudely tell me to "piss off" simply because I refuse to
pretend they aren't utterly clueless about something ('sausage
rolls' in your case).
--
Christopher ('CJ')
Bob Cunningham
2004-08-03 10:45:31 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 09:05:34 GMT, Christopher Johnson
Post by Christopher Johnson
Post by Charles Riggs
Piss off, Christopher.
You know what, Charles, I think I will do just that. I admit to
finding it extremely difficult to respect condescending adults
who rudely tell me to "piss off" simply because I refuse to
pretend they aren't utterly clueless about something ('sausage
rolls' in your case).
Stick around, Christopher. You don't have to respect anyone
to be comfortable here.
Christopher Johnson
2004-08-03 14:49:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Bob Cunningham
On Tue, 03 Aug 2004 09:05:34 GMT, Christopher Johnson
Post by Christopher Johnson
Post by Charles Riggs
Piss off, Christopher.
You know what, Charles, I think I will do just that. I admit to
finding it extremely difficult to respect condescending adults
who rudely tell me to "piss off" simply because I refuse to
pretend they aren't utterly clueless about something ('sausage
rolls' in your case).
Stick around, Christopher. You don't have to respect anyone
to be comfortable here.
Thanks, Bob. I should just mention, though, that you happen
to be one of the posters I respect a lot! Perhaps I should
just try to keep a safe distance from Charles when he gets
annoyed with me like this.
--
Christopher ('CJ')

(Change 3032 to 7777 for e-mail)
John Dawkins
2004-08-02 21:19:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know
the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on sausage
rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
Sausage McMuffin.
--
J.
Christopher Johnson
2004-08-02 22:04:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Dawkins
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some
Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know
the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on sausage
rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
Sausage McMuffin.
That's nothing like a British 'sausage roll'.
--
Christopher ('CJ')

(Change 3032 to 7777 for e-mail)
Charles Riggs
2004-08-03 07:12:08 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 22:04:48 GMT, Christopher Johnson
Post by Christopher Johnson
Post by John Dawkins
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some
Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know
the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on sausage
rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
Sausage McMuffin.
That's nothing like a British 'sausage roll'.
British, smitish. You'll be no happier in Britain than you are in
America, until you grow up. Your attitude is what needs adjusting, not
your locality.
--
Charles Riggs
Django Cat
2004-08-03 10:11:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Dawkins
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know
the difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
I don't use it. Don't like it.
I'd take it over any other condiment any day. Especially good on sausage
rolls (=AmE...um...anybody?).
Sausage McMuffin.
Not even close.
R H Draney
2004-08-02 13:30:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dylan Nicholson
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know the
difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
One of them apparently has "shire" in it, whatever that is....r
Robert Lieblich
2004-08-03 00:05:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
Post by Dylan Nicholson
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know the
difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
One of them apparently has "shire" in it, whatever that is....r
<http://tinyurl.com/5tzq2>
--
Liebs
Oy! Adrian
R H Draney
2004-08-03 02:25:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Lieblich
Post by R H Draney
Post by Dylan Nicholson
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know the
difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
One of them apparently has "shire" in it, whatever that is....r
<http://tinyurl.com/5tzq2>
In this context, that's a little off-putting....

(In the same spirit, I'll induce a cringe in everyone who bothers to follow this
link: Loading Image...)....r
Evan Kirshenbaum
2004-08-02 22:20:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dylan Nicholson
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know
the difference between Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
Is Worcester sauce the stuff Elmer Fudd puts in his pho?

http://www.huyfong.com/frames/fr_sriracha.htm
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |"Algebra? But that's far too
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |difficult for seven-year-olds!"
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |
|"Yes, but I didn't tell them that
***@hpl.hp.com |and so far they haven't found out,"
(650)857-7572 |said Susan.

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
david56
2004-08-02 22:46:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
Post by Dylan Nicholson
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know
the difference between Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
Is Worcester sauce the stuff Elmer Fudd puts in his pho?
http://www.huyfong.com/frames/fr_sriracha.htm
OK, I grew up a few miles from the Sauce Factory with many school
friends living within the Smell Event Horizon. There is no
"Worcester Sauce". If you look at a bottle of Lea & Perrins, you
will see that it is called "Worcestershire Sauce". Anything else is
like Tesco Cola - a pale imitation.

However, in the UK, it is always spoken as "Worcester Sauce", except
possibly on commercials for the stuff.
--
David
=====
Dylan Nicholson
2004-08-03 00:26:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by david56
However, in the UK, it is always spoken as "Worcester Sauce", except
possibly on commercials for the stuff.
Indeed. If you've ever tried to say "Worcestershire Sauce" in a hurry,
you'd know why.
She sells sea shells and all that.
david56
2004-08-03 08:57:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by david56
However, in the UK, it is always spoken as "Worcester Sauce", except
possibly on commercials for the stuff.
Indeed. If you've ever tried to say "Worcestershire Sauce" in a hurry,
you'd know why.
She sells sea shells and all that.
Actually, having grown up in Worcestershire, I have absolutely no
problem in pronouncing the name.
--
David
=====
Robert Bannister
2004-08-03 01:03:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Skitt
Post by Robert Bannister
Post by Joachim Herzog
Post by Robert Bannister
What silly person would thing that?
If you thing that, you've got another thing coming.
Yuck! I can't believe I wrote that. I'd better swallow some Worcester sauce.
I thought you were doing an AUE "in" joke.
--
He still is. Obviously you're just not "in" enough - don't you know the
difference between
Worcester sauce and Worcestershire sauce?
Round these parts, very few people bother to say "Worcestershire" when
"Worcester" will do. Some even call it "hot sauce" which is a bit
misleading considering how man chilli sauces are on the market.
--
Rob Bannister
Western Australia
Dylan Nicholson
2004-08-03 01:04:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Robert Bannister
Round these parts, very few people bother to say "Worcestershire" when
"Worcester" will do. Some even call it "hot sauce" which is a bit
misleading considering how man chilli sauces are on the market.
I'm pretty sure that should be hyphenated. Can't go past a good man-chilli
sauce.
Enough to convert anyone to cannibalism.
Charles Riggs
2004-08-03 07:12:09 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:04:42 +1000, "Dylan Nicholson"
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Robert Bannister
Round these parts, very few people bother to say "Worcestershire" when
"Worcester" will do. Some even call it "hot sauce" which is a bit
misleading considering how man chilli sauces are on the market.
I'm pretty sure that should be hyphenated. Can't go past a good man-chilli
sauce.
Enough to convert anyone to cannibalism.
Indeed, but since human flesh is said to be sweet-tasting, mustard
might go even better with it. Coleman's, perhaps. Ying and yang, and
all that.
--
Charles Riggs
Dr Robin Bignall
2004-08-03 12:03:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Riggs
On Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:04:42 +1000, "Dylan Nicholson"
Post by Dylan Nicholson
Post by Robert Bannister
Round these parts, very few people bother to say "Worcestershire" when
"Worcester" will do. Some even call it "hot sauce" which is a bit
misleading considering how man chilli sauces are on the market.
I'm pretty sure that should be hyphenated. Can't go past a good man-chilli
sauce.
Enough to convert anyone to cannibalism.
Indeed, but since human flesh is said to be sweet-tasting, mustard
might go even better with it. Coleman's, perhaps. Ying and yang, and
all that.
Cooked human is known as 'long pig' is it not? Apple sauce sounds
appropriate.
--
wrmst rgrds
Robin Bignall

Hertfordshire
England
Christopher Green
2004-08-02 04:25:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur". Instead it's
MIS-pronounced as "wooster."
Why?
Larry
What makes you think it ought to be pronounced "wor-kest-tur", and
what makes you think "wooster" is a mispronunciation?
--
The tough coughs as he ploughs the dough,

Chris Green
Charles Riggs
2004-08-02 05:31:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
A non-question.
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur". Instead it's
MIS-pronounced as "wooster."
If such considerations are of any importance, you should know it isn't
possible for a city's people to 'mispronounce' the name of their city,
--
Charles Riggs
Matti Lamprhey
2004-08-02 08:09:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Charles Riggs
If such considerations are of any importance, you should know it isn't
possible for a city's people to 'mispronounce' the name of their city,
Known as the Shrewsbury Rule.

Matti
david56
2004-08-02 09:42:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matti Lamprhey
Post by Charles Riggs
If such considerations are of any importance, you should know it isn't
possible for a city's people to 'mispronounce' the name of their city,
Known as the Shrewsbury Rule.
as modified by the Coventry Corollary.
--
David
=====
Alan Crozier
2004-08-02 10:23:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by david56
Post by Matti Lamprhey
Post by Charles Riggs
If such considerations are of any importance, you should know it isn't
possible for a city's people to 'mispronounce' the name of their city,
Known as the Shrewsbury Rule.
as modified by the Coventry Corollary.
Is there a Cirencester Concession? Have the people of that town now switched
to a spelling-pronunciation?
--
Alan Crozier
Lund
Sweden
Mike Lyle
2004-08-02 13:54:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Crozier
Post by david56
Post by Matti Lamprhey
Post by Charles Riggs
If such considerations are of any importance, you should know it isn't
possible for a city's people to 'mispronounce' the name of their city,
Known as the Shrewsbury Rule.
as modified by the Coventry Corollary.
Is there a Cirencester Concession? Have the people of that town now switched
to a spelling-pronunciation?
It's just down the road from me, and I think they have. I've sometimes
doubted the genuineness of the "Sister" form, but never pursued it.

Congresbury. I'm very surprised the OP didn't know that place-names
were very often irregular, or why; actually, without wishing to cast
vulgar nasturtiums, I suspect he did know, unless he's a rather cocky
late EFL learner.

Mike.
Alan Crozier
2004-08-02 14:15:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Lyle
Post by Alan Crozier
Post by david56
Post by Matti Lamprhey
Post by Charles Riggs
If such considerations are of any importance, you should know it isn't
possible for a city's people to 'mispronounce' the name of their city,
Known as the Shrewsbury Rule.
as modified by the Coventry Corollary.
Is there a Cirencester Concession? Have the people of that town now switched
to a spelling-pronunciation?
It's just down the road from me, and I think they have. I've sometimes
doubted the genuineness of the "Sister" form, but never pursued it.
The pronunciations I quoted come from Daniel Jones & A.C. Gimson, English
Pronouncing Dictionary. I think they can be trusted.
Post by Mike Lyle
I'm very surprised the OP didn't know that place-names
were very often irregular, or why; actually, without wishing to cast
vulgar nasturtiums, I suspect he did know, unless he's a rather cocky
late EFL learner.
Anyway, the frequently asked question "Why is Worcester pronounced Wooster?"
(or whatever) is the wrong way around. It should be "Why is the sound
Wooster represented in writing by Worcester (and in surnames as Wooster)?"
The sounds come first. Spelling can take a long time to catch up.
--
Alan Crozier
Lund
Sweden
Steve Hayes
2004-08-02 19:15:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by david56
Post by Matti Lamprhey
Post by Charles Riggs
If such considerations are of any importance, you should know it isn't
possible for a city's people to 'mispronounce' the name of their city,
Known as the Shrewsbury Rule.
as modified by the Coventry Corollary.
as qualified by the Cirencester anomaly.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Charles Riggs
2004-08-03 07:12:09 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 09:09:35 +0100, "Matti Lamprhey"
Post by Matti Lamprhey
Post by Charles Riggs
If such considerations are of any importance, you should know it isn't
possible for a city's people to 'mispronounce' the name of their city,
Known as the Shrewsbury Rule.
So you're calling me a woman. Hey, not the worst.
--
Charles Riggs
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2004-08-03 14:22:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matti Lamprhey
Post by Charles Riggs
If such considerations are of any importance, you should know it isn't
possible for a city's people to 'mispronounce' the name of their city,
Known as the Shrewsbury Rule.
Is it? The only hit I got from Google for "Shrewsbury Rule"
(including the quotes) was a commercial site that had nothing to do
with it! However, I know that the topic of how to pronounce it has
come up several times in aue.

The posh pronunciation is, I think, derived from a misunderstanding.
The earliest recognizable spellings of the name of the town have
"ow"or "ou", and date from a time when the normal pronunciation of
either spelling would be as in the modern pronunciation of "shrew".
Later on, the spelling was corrected to better reflect what was then
the universal pronunciation. Later still, some people made the wrong
deduction from the older spelling that the older, and supposedly
therefore more "correct", pronunciation had the diphthong we would now
spell as "o" (as in "so") or "ow" (as in "show").

athel

--
Athel Cornish-Bowden
***@ibsm.cnrs-mrs.fr
http://bip.cnrs-mrs.fr/bip10/homepage.htm
Steve Hayes
2004-08-02 05:46:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur". Instead it's
MIS-pronounced as "wooster."
Perhaps because of the similarity of the name to Worcester in England which is
properly pronounced "Wooster" just as Gloucester is pronounced "Gloster".
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
André Hartmann
2004-08-02 09:29:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
Perhaps because of the similarity of the name to Worcester in England which is
properly pronounced "Wooster" just as Gloucester is pronounced "Gloster".
... and Leicester (pr. "lester") ! As in Leicester Square, London :)
Post by Steve Hayes
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Stewart Gordon
2004-08-02 11:07:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Steve Hayes
Perhaps because of the similarity of the name to Worcester in England
which is
Post by Steve Hayes
properly pronounced "Wooster" just as Gloucester is pronounced "Gloster".
... and Leicester (pr. "lester") ! As in Leicester Square, London :)
And Bicester. Which seems to be the only one in which the vowel
preceding "cester" retains its usual English sound.

There ought to be others, but I can't think of them OTTOMH. But for
some strange reason, Cirencester is an exception, traditionally dropping
the "ren" rather than the "ce", but now generally spelling-pronounced.

Stewart.
--
My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on
the 'group where everyone may benefit.
André Hartmann
2004-08-02 11:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stewart Gordon
There ought to be others, but I can't think of them OTTOMH. But for
some strange reason, Cirencester is an exception, traditionally dropping
the "ren" rather than the "ce", but now generally spelling-pronounced.
Do I get that right... it WAS pronounced ci-ce-ster but now it is
pronounced ci-ren-ce-ster ? Stress is on what syllable, respectively ? Sorry
if the question sounds dumb but I am german and it's not obvious to me...
Stewart Gordon
2004-08-02 11:48:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by André Hartmann
Post by Stewart Gordon
There ought to be others, but I can't think of them OTTOMH. But for
some strange reason, Cirencester is an exception, traditionally dropping
the "ren" rather than the "ce", but now generally spelling-pronounced.
Do I get that right... it WAS pronounced ci-ce-ster but now it is
pronounced ci-ren-ce-ster ?
"Traditionally, Cirencester was pronounced sis-etter or sis-sester, but
by the 1980s this pronunciation had been largely replaced by Syren-sester."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirencester
Post by André Hartmann
Stress is on what syllable, respectively ?
<snip>

Traditional: don't know.
Common: first, secondary on third.

Stewart.
--
My e-mail is valid but not my primary mailbox. Please keep replies on
the 'group where everyone may benefit.
Alan Crozier
2004-08-02 12:25:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by André Hartmann
Post by Stewart Gordon
There ought to be others, but I can't think of them OTTOMH. But for
some strange reason, Cirencester is an exception, traditionally dropping
the "ren" rather than the "ce", but now generally spelling-pronounced.
Do I get that right... it WAS pronounced ci-ce-ster but now it is
pronounced ci-ren-ce-ster ? Stress is on what syllable, respectively ? Sorry
if the question sounds dumb but I am german and it's not obvious to me...
Stress always on the first syllable. Pronunciation has varied: Sissiter,
Sissister, Sizzister. Now Sirensester, with Siren as in siren. Never
Kirenkester.
--
Alan Crozier
Lund
Sweden
Django Cat
2004-08-02 13:24:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stewart Gordon
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Steve Hayes
Perhaps because of the similarity of the name to Worcester in England
which is
Post by Steve Hayes
properly pronounced "Wooster" just as Gloucester is pronounced "Gloster".
... and Leicester (pr. "lester") ! As in Leicester Square, London :)
And Bicester. Which seems to be the only one in which the vowel
preceding "cester" retains its usual English sound.
There ought to be others, but I can't think of them OTTOMH.
Towcester, pronounced 'Toaster'...

DC
Alan Jones
2004-08-02 19:25:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Django Cat
Post by Stewart Gordon
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Steve Hayes
Perhaps because of the similarity of the name to Worcester in England
which is
Post by Steve Hayes
properly pronounced "Wooster" just as Gloucester is pronounced "Gloster".
... and Leicester (pr. "lester") ! As in Leicester Square, London :)
And Bicester. Which seems to be the only one in which the vowel
preceding "cester" retains its usual English sound.
There ought to be others, but I can't think of them OTTOMH.
Towcester, pronounced 'Toaster'...
Leominster (lemster)
Leamington (lemmington)
Ratlinghope (ratchup)
Frome (froom)

and many, many more.

A local oddity is Calne: older natives use the 'a' of 'bat' and pronounce
the 'l', younger natives and incomers say "kahn", presumably on the model of
"calm" and "palm". Another town nearby is Chippenham (chip-n'm in casual
speech) which has a newly-developed area given the name of Cepen Park. The
"Cepen" is the Anglo-Saxon name for Chippenham (there was a famous battle
there between Alfred and the Danish army under Guthrum), and should
therefore properly be pronounced with 'tch', but everyone says "see-p'n" -
eliminating the connection with the town of which Cepen Park is a
mini-suburb.

Alan Jones
david56
2004-08-02 20:08:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alan Jones
Leominster (lemster)
Leamington (lemmington)
That one is not so odd as the town is named for the River Leam,
pronounced Lemm.
--
David
=====
Jacqui
2004-08-02 21:02:44 UTC
Permalink
Alan Jones wibbled
Post by Alan Jones
A local oddity is Calne: older natives use the 'a' of 'bat' and
pronounce the 'l', younger natives and incomers say "kahn",
presumably on the model of "calm" and "palm".
Hmmm, I use the a of 'calm' but pronounce the l. Taught by a local.
Post by Alan Jones
Another town nearby
is Chippenham (chip-n'm in casual speech) which has a
newly-developed area given the name of Cepen Park. The "Cepen" is
the Anglo-Saxon name for Chippenham (there was a famous battle
there between Alfred and the Danish army under Guthrum), and
should therefore properly be pronounced with 'tch', but everyone
says "see-p'n" - eliminating the connection with the town of which
Cepen Park is a mini-suburb.
Oh dear. Where is Cepen Park? /me Googles. Ah, right. My end of town
(lived within 10 minutes of CTC for 2 years).

And what about the pronunciation of Hardenhuish, eh?

Jac
Alan Jones
2004-08-03 08:41:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jacqui
Alan Jones wibbled
Post by Alan Jones
A local oddity is Calne: older natives use the 'a' of 'bat' and
pronounce the 'l', younger natives and incomers say "kahn",
presumably on the model of "calm" and "palm".
Hmmm, I use the a of 'calm' but pronounce the l. Taught by a local.
That may well be more "correct". The vowel I hear as the 'a' of "bat" is
perhaps just the more rural version of 'ah'. As an incomer, I learned local
pronunciations from the craftsmen building my bungalow, especially Mick
(tiling, slabs etc.) whose ripe accent matched his intimate knowledge of the
Devizes-Chippenham-Calne part of Wiltshire and its history.
Post by Jacqui
Post by Alan Jones
Another town nearby
is Chippenham (chip-n'm in casual speech) which has a
newly-developed area given the name of Cepen Park. The "Cepen" is
the Anglo-Saxon name for Chippenham (there was a famous battle
there between Alfred and the Danish army under Guthrum), and
should therefore properly be pronounced with 'tch', but everyone
says "see-p'n" - eliminating the connection with the town of which
Cepen Park is a mini-suburb.
Oh dear. Where is Cepen Park? /me Googles. Ah, right. My end of town
(lived within 10 minutes of CTC for 2 years).
And what about the pronunciation of Hardenhuish, eh?
What indeed? I've never heard anyone say the word. If I were forced to say
it, I suppose it would come out as "HARD'n- HOO-ish", but that's too easy to
be right. How about "hard-nish"? Please advise me. (For the vast majority of
our readers, who won't know where Chippenham is, let alone Hardenhuish:
Hardenhuish is an outlying district of Chippenham unaccountably colonised by
several large schools. Chippenham is a medium-sized market town in northern
Wiltshire, now rapidly growing because it has a fast[ish] rail link to
Reading and London and is only a mile or two from the M4 motorway linking
London Heathrow to Wales and so by sea to Ireland.)

Alan Jones
Jacqui
2004-08-03 12:12:16 UTC
Permalink
Alan Jones wibbled
Post by Alan Jones
Post by Jacqui
And what about the pronunciation of Hardenhuish, eh?
What indeed? I've never heard anyone say the word. If I were
forced to say it, I suppose it would come out as "HARD'n-
HOO-ish", but that's too easy to be right. How about "hard-nish"?
Please advise me.
Your suspicion is correct. It used to be "Harnish" (or 'arnish), but
since the school was built it's drifted to "HARD'n-HOO-ish" or "HARD'n-
HEW-ish". Which is a shame, really.

Jac
Larry R Harrison Jr
2004-08-02 15:53:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur". Instead it's
MIS-pronounced as "wooster."
Perhaps because of the similarity of the name to Worcester in England which is
properly pronounced "Wooster" just as Gloucester is pronounced "Gloster".
I would submit then, that Gloucester should be pronounced
"glue-kester." If they want to pronounce it "Gloster," then spell it
"Gloster." Likewise if the officials of Worcester want it pronounced
"Wooster," they should spell it "Wooster."

If a letter is silent, it has no business being there.

It's not the only example of silly English, I just felt compelled
today I guess because the History Channel was doing a bit on tornadoes
and the one that hit Wooster years ago, and it reminded me of this
little bit which I had first heard of a long time ago but had
forgotten about. Now I'd like to forget about it again.

But other silly examples would be:

* Honest. The H should be pronounced or it should be spelled "onest."
Yes it looks silly, but oh well--one of the two should be done.

* Or, like, the name Demi Moore. I agreed with George in that Seinfeld
episode, it should be pronounced "Demi" not "De-meeee" (that is, don't
stress the "eeeee" at the end, just make it a quick "Demi"). Like he
said, you never hear "Sem-eeee" tractor trailer.

Just my 2c worth. That's all.
david56
2004-08-02 15:59:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
If a letter is silent, it has no business being there.
pronounced "busy-ness" in your dialect, we must surmise.
--
David
=====
Christopher Johnson
2004-08-02 16:15:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur". Instead it's
MIS-pronounced as "wooster."
Perhaps because of the similarity of the name to Worcester in England which is
properly pronounced "Wooster" just as Gloucester is pronounced "Gloster".
I would submit then, that Gloucester should be pronounced
"glue-kester." If they want to pronounce it "Gloster," then spell it
"Gloster." Likewise if the officials of Worcester want it pronounced
"Wooster," they should spell it "Wooster."
If a letter is silent, it has no business being there.
'Business' is generally pronounced 'bIznIs', so shouldn't you
have spelt it 'biznis' or something?
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
It's not the only example of silly English, I just felt compelled
today I guess because the History Channel was doing a bit on tornadoes
and the one that hit Wooster years ago, and it reminded me of this
little bit which I had first heard of a long time ago but had
forgotten about. Now I'd like to forget about it again.
* Honest. The H should be pronounced or it should be spelled "onest."
Yes it looks silly, but oh well--one of the two should be done.
* Or, like, the name Demi Moore. I agreed with George in that Seinfeld
episode, it should be pronounced "Demi" not "De-meeee" (that is, don't
stress the "eeeee" at the end, just make it a quick "Demi"). Like he
said, you never hear "Sem-eeee" tractor trailer.
Yes you do. Outside of America, the word 'semi' is generally
pronounced "sem-eeee".
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Just my 2c worth. That's all.
Barely worth 1¢, I'd say, as with any 'spell as you pronounce' rants,
especially this one. Maybe you think 'George in Seinfeld' should be
spelt: 'Jorj in Seinfelt'? Sheesh!
--
Christopher ('CJ')

(Change 3032 to 7777 for e-mail)
Michael Nitabach
2004-08-02 18:04:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur". Instead
it's MIS-pronounced as "wooster."
Perhaps because of the similarity of the name to Worcester in
England which is properly pronounced "Wooster" just as Gloucester
is pronounced "Gloster".
I would submit then, that Gloucester should be pronounced
"glue-kester." If they want to pronounce it "Gloster," then spell
it "Gloster." Likewise if the officials of Worcester want it
pronounced "Wooster," they should spell it "Wooster."
Do you see that your argument has as much logical weight as "If they
want to pronounce it 'Gloster', then spell it 'xgvvhc'"?

And where do you get the idea that the "officials" of Worcester have
the power (or desire, for that matter) to determine how the name of
the town is pronounced?
--
Mike Nitabach
Robert Bannister
2004-08-03 01:11:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Steve Hayes
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur". Instead it's
MIS-pronounced as "wooster."
Perhaps because of the similarity of the name to Worcester in England which is
properly pronounced "Wooster" just as Gloucester is pronounced "Gloster".
I would submit then, that Gloucester should be pronounced
"glue-kester."
Why would you possibly expect a 'k' sound? Do you pronounce 'incest' as
'inkest'?
--
Rob Bannister
R H Draney
2004-08-03 02:32:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
I would submit then, that Gloucester should be pronounced
"glue-kester." If they want to pronounce it "Gloster," then spell it
"Gloster." Likewise if the officials of Worcester want it pronounced
"Wooster," they should spell it "Wooster."
If a letter is silent, it has no business being there.
That'll never fly here in Feeniks....

In any event, you'll first have to take care of the A in aisle, the B in subtle,
the C in indict, the D in handsome, the E in twitched, the F in neufchâtel, the
G in gnone, the H in myrrh, the I in heifer, the J in marijuana, the K in
knight, the L in talkathon, the first M in mnemonic, the N in autumn, the O in
leopard, the P in psychoneurotic, the Q in cinq-cents, the R in atelier, the S
in viscount, the T in hautboy, the U in plaque, the V in fivepence, the W in
writhing, the X in billet-doux, the Y in prayerful, and the Z in
rendezvous...then and only then should you start in on proper names....

Word list, by the way, courtesy of Willard Espy...I'm not entirely happy with
it; for one thing, there are too many unabsorbed gallisms....r
Christopher Johnson
2004-08-03 04:09:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
I would submit then, that Gloucester should be pronounced
"glue-kester." If they want to pronounce it "Gloster," then spell it
"Gloster." Likewise if the officials of Worcester want it pronounced
"Wooster," they should spell it "Wooster."
If a letter is silent, it has no business being there.
That'll never fly here in Feeniks....
In any event, you'll first have to take care of the A in aisle, the B in subtle,
the C in indict, the D in handsome, the E in twitched, the F in neufchâtel, the
G in gnone, the H in myrrh, the I in heifer, the J in marijuana, the K in
knight, the L in talkathon, the first M in mnemonic, the N in autumn, the O in
leopard, the P in psychoneurotic, the Q in cinq-cents, the R in atelier, the S
in viscount, the T in hautboy, the U in plaque, the V in fivepence, the W in
writhing, the X in billet-doux, the Y in prayerful, and the Z in
rendezvous...then and only then should you start in on proper names....
Word list, by the way, courtesy of Willard Espy...I'm not entirely happy with
it; for one thing, there are too many unabsorbed gallisms....r
"Unabsorbed gallisms"? That sounds like a physical ailment!

Perhaps you meant 'unabsorbed Gallicisms'?
--
Christopher ('CJ')

(Change 3032 to 7777 for e-mail)
R H Draney
2004-08-03 14:57:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christopher Johnson
Post by R H Draney
Word list, by the way, courtesy of Willard Espy...I'm not entirely happy with
it; for one thing, there are too many unabsorbed gallisms....r
"Unabsorbed gallisms"? That sounds like a physical ailment!
Perhaps you meant 'unabsorbed Gallicisms'?
Perhaps I did...nowadays we call them "freedomisms"....r

André Hartmann
2004-08-03 08:00:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
today I guess because the History Channel was doing a bit on tornadoes
That should be "tornados" then .. since youre so after eliminating silent
letters :)
Areff
2004-08-02 20:33:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
Perhaps because of the similarity of the name to Worcester in England which is
properly pronounced "Wooster" just as Gloucester is pronounced "Gloster".
I thought that UK folks told us a few years ago that "Worcester" and
"Wooster" are not homophones. (Unless maybe there are some Englandish
dialects with look/Luke merger. It *sounds* to me like many Englandish
people pronounce "book" as [buk] rather than [bUk].)

I use the "cot" vowel in "Gloucester", interestingly enough, since I use
the "caught" vowel in "gloss". Up in Gloucester, Mass. they say
[***@st@] I guess.

--
Matti Lamprhey
2004-08-02 22:08:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Areff
Post by Steve Hayes
Perhaps because of the similarity of the name to Worcester in
England which is properly pronounced "Wooster" just as Gloucester
is pronounced "Gloster".
I thought that UK folks told us a few years ago that "Worcester" and
"Wooster" are not homophones. (Unless maybe there are some
Englandish dialects with look/Luke merger. It *sounds* to me like
many Englandish people pronounce "book" as [buk] rather than [bUk].)
"Worcester" always gets the shorter vowel in RP "look" -- but note that
many dialects of BrEnglish give "look" the longer vowel of "Luke" as you
suggest. "Wooster", as in Bertram, is usually pronounced like
"Worcester" but many people give him the longer vowel. If anyone knows
how Wodehouse himself conceived it, I'd be fascinated.

Matti
Areff
2004-08-02 22:42:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matti Lamprhey
"Worcester" always gets the shorter vowel in RP "look" -- but note that
many dialects of BrEnglish give "look" the longer vowel of "Luke" as you
suggest.
So is this a bona fide vowel merger, comparable to "cot is caught" of
Cunningham-Richoux-Dinkin fame? LIL?

--
Jonathan Jordan
2004-08-03 08:05:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Areff
Post by Matti Lamprhey
"Worcester" always gets the shorter vowel in RP "look" -- but note that
many dialects of BrEnglish give "look" the longer vowel of "Luke" as you
suggest.
So is this a bona fide vowel merger, comparable to "cot is caught" of
Cunningham-Richoux-Dinkin fame? LIL?
Depends on the accent. It's quite common in northern England (and the
north Midlands, e.g. Stoke on Trent) for people to have /u/ (as in
"Luke") in words spelt <ook>, e.g. "look", "book", "cook". However I
think such accents usually have /U/ (or /V/ - many such accents don't
have a "put"/"putt" distinction) in other words with RP /U/, probably
including "Worcester" /'wUst@(r)/.

OTOH, I understand that Scottish English has a genuine /U/~/u/ merger,
to go with its "cot"/"caught" merger.

Jonathan
Jacqui
2004-08-02 22:44:34 UTC
Permalink
Matti Lamprhey wibbled
Areff wrote...
Post by Areff
I thought that UK folks told us a few years ago that "Worcester"
and "Wooster" are not homophones. (Unless maybe there are some
Englandish dialects with look/Luke merger. It *sounds* to me
like many Englandish people pronounce "book" as [buk] rather than
[bUk].)
"Worcester" always gets the shorter vowel in RP "look"
I just asked (Lancastrian) DH to tell me the name of the sauce that
Lea and Perrins make, and the chappy who has the manservant Jeeves,
and the results were "wuhstershuh" and "wooster", in that order.
Worcester apparently has exactly the same vowel as 'worse' for him,
and that goes for the place as well as the sauce. Curious.

For myself, there is a difference in embouchure between "Worcester"
and "[Bertie] Wooster". I can't put it any more precisely than that,
or hear enough of a difference to explain, DH tells me he can hear a
very slight difference too (and normally he doesn't notice this
stuff), but that's all we can come up with tonight.

Jac
Mike Lyle
2004-08-03 12:39:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Matti Lamprhey
Post by Areff
Post by Steve Hayes
Perhaps because of the similarity of the name to Worcester in
England which is properly pronounced "Wooster" just as Gloucester
is pronounced "Gloster".
I thought that UK folks told us a few years ago that "Worcester" and
"Wooster" are not homophones. (Unless maybe there are some
Englandish dialects with look/Luke merger. It *sounds* to me like
many Englandish people pronounce "book" as [buk] rather than [bUk].)
"Worcester" always gets the shorter vowel in RP "look" -- but note that
many dialects of BrEnglish give "look" the longer vowel of "Luke" as you
suggest. "Wooster", as in Bertram, is usually pronounced like
"Worcester" but many people give him the longer vowel. If anyone knows
how Wodehouse himself conceived it, I'd be fascinated.
Dunno. But AYK his own name was "wood-house". (I'd love to think that
was Chaucerian, and meant "mad-house".)

Mike.
Steve Hayes
2004-08-03 06:35:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Areff
Post by Steve Hayes
Perhaps because of the similarity of the name to Worcester in England which is
properly pronounced "Wooster" just as Gloucester is pronounced "Gloster".
I thought that UK folks told us a few years ago that "Worcester" and
"Wooster" are not homophones. (Unless maybe there are some Englandish
dialects with look/Luke merger. It *sounds* to me like many Englandish
people pronounce "book" as [buk] rather than [bUk].)
I use the "cot" vowel in "Gloucester", interestingly enough, since I use
the "caught" vowel in "gloss". Up in Gloucester, Mass. they say
I've know people to use the caught vowel in salt too.

Perhaps they think it makes them sound fraffly U.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7734/stevesig.htm
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Mike Lyle
2004-08-03 12:31:05 UTC
Permalink
***@hotmail.com (Steve Hayes) wrote in message news:<***@news.saix.net>...
[...]
Post by Steve Hayes
I've know people to use the caught vowel in salt too.
Perhaps they think it makes them sound fraffly U.
Good heavens! How do you say it, then? The 'cot' vowel?

What about 'tall', and 'already', and 'balk'?

Mike.
Jonathan Jordan
2004-08-03 13:12:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mike Lyle
[...]
Post by Steve Hayes
I've know people to use the caught vowel in salt too.
Perhaps they think it makes them sound fraffly U.
Good heavens! How do you say it, then? The 'cot' vowel?
Quite likely. A lot of people in Britain do. If you look at Prof
J.C.Wells's 1998 pronunciation survey
http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/wells/poll98.htm
(NB self-selecting sample) the figures for "halt" (can we assume that
that rhymes with "salt"?) are 52% with /A./ as in "cot" and 48% with
/O:/ as in "caught".

If I had answered the survey, I'd have been thrown by this question.
For me "halt" and "salt" have the same vowel as "colt", phonemically
/o/ as in "coat", though the vowel quality is different before /l/.
Post by Mike Lyle
What about 'tall', and 'already', and 'balk'?
I have /O:/ in "tall" and "already", but "balk" is /bolk/. Also
"false" /fols/, "fault" /folt/ (in spite of the <au>), "also" /'olso/,
and indeed most cases of traditional RP /O:/ followed by
/l/+consonant.

Jonathan
Adrian Bailey
2004-08-02 10:00:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur".
c before e is soft, mate.

Adrian
Larry R Harrison Jr
2004-08-02 15:56:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Adrian Bailey
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur".
c before e is soft, mate.
Adrian
Thanks for the rule and the enlightment. I had (h)onestly never heard
it.

(I put the h in parenthesis to stress my belief that the h should
either be pronounced or left out of the spelling.)

But I do think that's silly. Not that anyone cares of course. But
really--if "ce" is silent, why have it in there? It just wastes space
and is confusing for the unenlightened like myself. It just doesn't
make any sense.

LRH
david56
2004-08-02 16:01:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
But I do think that's silly. Not that anyone cares of course. But
really--if "ce" is silent, why have it in there? It just wastes space
and is confusing for the unenlightened like myself. It just doesn't
make any sense.
so how do you pronounced "light"?
--
David
=====
Christopher Johnson
2004-08-02 16:19:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by david56
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
But I do think that's silly. Not that anyone cares of course. But
really--if "ce" is silent, why have it in there? It just wastes space
and is confusing for the unenlightened like myself. It just doesn't
make any sense.
so how do you pronounced "light"?
Now, there's a thort!
--
Christopher ('CJ')

(Change 3032 to 7777 for e-mail)
Christopher Johnson
2004-08-02 16:23:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by david56
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
But I do think that's silly. Not that anyone cares of course. But
really--if "ce" is silent, why have it in there? It just wastes space
and is confusing for the unenlightened like myself. It just doesn't
make any sense.
so how do you pronounced "light"?
^^
Huh?
--
Christopher ('CJ')

(Change 3032 to 7777 for e-mail)
Larry R Harrison Jr
2004-08-02 22:33:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by david56
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
But I do think that's silly. Not that anyone cares of course. But
really--if "ce" is silent, why have it in there? It just wastes space
and is confusing for the unenlightened like myself. It just doesn't
make any sense.
so how do you pronounced "light"?
Good one. I admit, you got me there. Surely I don't go around calling
it "li-hh-t?" Yes it's as if the "gh" wasn't there.

You got me on that one.
Dylan Nicholson
2004-08-02 22:37:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by david56
so how do you pronounced "light"?
Good one. I admit, you got me there. Surely I don't go around calling
it "li-hh-t?" Yes it's as if the "gh" wasn't there.
You got me on that one.
Not really, seeing as 'lit' is quite a different word.

"igh" is a common enough way of transcribing the sound of 'eye' (which is
actually a very uncommon way of writing it).
Mike Lyle
2004-08-02 21:39:20 UTC
Permalink
[...]
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Adrian Bailey
c before e is soft, mate.
Adrian
Thanks for the rule and the enlightment. I had (h)onestly never heard
it.
[...]
You mean, of course, that in your area everybody meets in the kenter
of the kity in Dekember to go danking. Nike idea. Is Larry short for
Laurenke?

Mike.
John Dean
2004-08-02 23:15:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Adrian Bailey
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur".
c before e is soft, mate.
Adrian
Thanks for the rule and the enlightment. I had (h)onestly never heard
it.
(I put the h in parenthesis to stress my belief that the h should
either be pronounced or left out of the spelling.)
But I do think that's silly. Not that anyone cares of course. But
really--if "ce" is silent, why have it in there? It just wastes space
and is confusing for the unenlightened like myself. It just doesn't
make any sense.
LRH
You ever wonder what the 'gh' is doing in 'unenlightened'? Or the 'l' in
'should'? I mean, if you're going to query 'unnecessary' letters,
shouldn't you query them *all*?
--
John Dean
Oxford
Raymond S. Wise
2004-08-03 05:36:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Dean
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Adrian Bailey
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
What silly person long ago came up with this backwards way to
pronounce this city's name?
It ought to be pronounced something like "wor-kest-tur".
c before e is soft, mate.
Adrian
Thanks for the rule and the enlightment. I had (h)onestly never heard
it.
(I put the h in parenthesis to stress my belief that the h should
either be pronounced or left out of the spelling.)
But I do think that's silly. Not that anyone cares of course. But
really--if "ce" is silent, why have it in there? It just wastes space
and is confusing for the unenlightened like myself. It just doesn't
make any sense.
LRH
You ever wonder what the 'gh' is doing in 'unenlightened'? Or the 'l' in
'should'? I mean, if you're going to query 'unnecessary' letters,
shouldn't you query them *all*?
--
John Dean
Oxford
Occasionally, of course, "unnecessary letters" become "necessary": Two cases
in point: "ugh" where the "gh" was not originally pronounced like a hard
"g," as it often is today, and "kiln," in which the "n" is usually
pronounced, despite the fact it was once usually pronounced as "kill."
--
Raymond S. Wise
Minneapolis, Minnesota USA

E-mail: mplsray @ yahoo . com
Mike Lyle
2004-08-03 12:35:01 UTC
Permalink
"Raymond S. Wise" <***@gbronline.com> wrote in message news:<_5Wdnb9XQObjuZLcRVn-***@gbronline.com>...
[...]
Occasionally, of course, "unnecessary letters" become "necessary": [Two cases
in point:] "ugh" where the "gh" was not originally pronounced like a hard
"g," as it often is today, [...]
Interesting. A new one on me. What's that in a phonetic transcription, please?

Mike.
Gary Williams
2004-08-03 14:42:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Larry R Harrison Jr
Post by Adrian Bailey
c before e is soft, mate.
Thanks for the rule and the enlightment. I had (h)onestly never heard
it.
As one one of whose earliest posts to a.u.e. involved either an
ignorance of the consonant-before-front-vowels rule or else exceptions
thereto, I am in some sympathy.

However, as to your larger point, well, some languages undergo
periodic spelling reform, with, I imagine, one or more of these
consequences:
a) old texts become illegible
b) readers give old texts the pronunciations current in bygone
times, sort of like an English-speaker reading a Br'er Rabbit tale
c) many readers must adjust their reading of new texts as spelled
in order to accomodate local pronunciation variants.

And even in languages, such as Spanish, which undergo rather frequent
spelling reform, the reforms sometimes retain spelling features purely
for etymological reasons. Many native speakers of Spanish are, for
example, uncertain as to whether or not to put an 'h' at the beginning
of words like 'hombre' or 'onda'. Proper names are especially
resistant to spelling reforms: Ximenez and México, for example.

Once your spelling reforms are introduced, there is nothing,
especially in mostly-illiterate times, to prevent further
pronunciation change and necessitating further spelling reform.
Spelling pronunciation is a phenomenon of mostly-literate times; and
for how this can work out, somtimes amusingly, sometimes
embarrassingly, see the FAQ under "misles".

Gary Williams
Joe Fineman
2004-08-02 12:49:12 UTC
Permalink
Surely you mean "Woosester":

There was once a young lady of Worcester
Who usest to crow like a roosester.
She usest to climb
Two trees at a time,
But her sisester usest to boosest her.

Conceivably you will get your wish if you live long enough. Americans
have often taken up spelling pronunciations of slurred British place
names (Waltham, MA, & Birmingham, AL are conspicuous examples), and
even the Brits are doing it at home, as part of what Gowers, in MEU 2,
calls "the speak-as-you-spell movement".
--
--- Joe Fineman ***@TheWorld.com

||: I know there are things I know nothing about, but I can't :||
||: actually think of any. :||
Cece
2004-08-02 18:45:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Fineman
There was once a young lady of Worcester
Who usest to crow like a roosester.
She usest to climb
Two trees at a time,
But her sisester usest to boosest her.
Conceivably you will get your wish if you live long enough. Americans
have often taken up spelling pronunciations of slurred British place
names (Waltham, MA, & Birmingham, AL are conspicuous examples), and
even the Brits are doing it at home, as part of what Gowers, in MEU 2,
calls "the speak-as-you-spell movement".
Ten or so years ago, in conversation with a Brit from near Cambridge,
I mentioned Pontefract -- and she had no idea where I was talking
about. She'd never heard it pronounced anyway other than /'pan ti
***@kt/, while I had remembered what I'd read about the name years
before and said /'pVm frEt/.

Is Newcastle pronounced correctly at home? :-)

Cece
Jonathan Jordan
2004-08-03 08:12:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cece
Post by Joe Fineman
There was once a young lady of Worcester
Who usest to crow like a roosester.
She usest to climb
Two trees at a time,
But her sisester usest to boosest her.
Conceivably you will get your wish if you live long enough.
Americans
Post by Cece
Post by Joe Fineman
have often taken up spelling pronunciations of slurred British place
names (Waltham, MA, & Birmingham, AL are conspicuous examples), and
even the Brits are doing it at home, as part of what Gowers, in MEU 2,
calls "the speak-as-you-spell movement".
Ten or so years ago, in conversation with a Brit from near
Cambridge,
Post by Cece
I mentioned Pontefract -- and she had no idea where I was talking
about. She'd never heard it pronounced anyway other than /'pan ti
before and said /'pVm frEt/.
I'm from rather closer than Cambridge to Pontefract, and I'd say
/'pA.ntIfrakt/ - that's "PONT-i-fract" for IPA-phobes - with a full
vowel and not a schwa in the third syllable. (I presume your /a/ is
meant to be a "cot" vowel, but we're talking Yorkshire here - /a/ is
in "cat".) I don't know what real locals say.
Post by Cece
Is Newcastle pronounced correctly at home? :-)
The local pronunciation of Newcastle (upon Tyne) is, I believe,
/nju'***@l/, with second syllable stress and a "cat" vowel in the
second syllable. In the rest of the country people tend to say
/'***@l/ (north) or /'njukA:***@l/ (south). There are other
Newcastles around, of course, and they may have different local
pronunciations.

Jonathan
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