On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 8:53:59 AM UTC-4, Peter Moylan wrote:
> On 25/09/17 16:29, Ross wrote:
> > On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 4:35:14 PM UTC+13, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >> On 25/09/17 11:27, Ross wrote:
> >>> On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 2:11:44 PM UTC+13, Peter Moylan wrote:
> >>>> On 25/09/17 03:01, Horace LaBadie wrote:
> >>>>> In article <firstname.lastname@example.org>, occam <***@127.0.0.1> wrote:
> >>>>>> No I don't. In the case of "lost" cities, the location is unknown.
> >>>>>> Similarly with your keys. In the case of the painting - it is hanging
> >>>>>> there, in the gallery, for everyone to see. We can see it, but do not
> >>>>>> know its significance.
> >>>>> Often the lost cities are known by locals.
> >>>> When I was a teenager my father took me to the ghost town of Whroo.
> >>>> Whroo had a population of about 10,000 in the gold rush days, but the
> >>>> population eventually dwindled down to zero. When we visited, it was
> >>>> possible -- but only by very careful searching -- to find a small number
> >>>> of straight lines on the ground that must have been the location of
> >>>> building foundations. Apart from that, there was nothing but trees.
> >>>> There was no other sign that anyone had ever lived there.
> >>>> My father knew about it because he grew up on a farm only 2 to 3 km
> >>>> away. Presumably there were other locals who also knew about it, but
> >>>> apparently not many. Most people, even those in the nearby small town,
> >>>> either didn't know about it or didn't know where it was.
> >>>> Eventually the local historians tracked it down, and even found a
> >>>> well-hidden cemetery in the bush, so there's now a tourist office there.
> >>> So how do you pronounce it?
> >>> (or is that ghost pronunciation?)
> >> It's pronounced the same as "roo". The name is thought to be an
> >> aboriginal word meaning something like "lips", and is supposedly a
> >> reference to a water hole in the rocks that was used by the local tribe.
> >> The water hole itself is not easy to find, but I've seen it.
> > Still a weird spelling. I'd like to know what sound they thought they
> > were representing with <whr>.
> The Dja Dja Wurrung language is extinct. The only information I could
> find about the sounds in the language is at
> which lists w as a labial approximant but leaves it at that, with no
> further detail. There's no mention of h. That web page refers to a
> longish document "Dialects of Western Kulin, Western Victoria
> Yartwatjali, Tjapwurrung, Djadjawurrung" which I have not read except to
> look at the section on consonants. The author of that uses an appended
> "h" to indicate a palatal version of a dental consonant, but doesn't say
> what it would mean after "w". If I had to guess, I might guess that it
> means aspiration, in which case "wh" might sound like a Maaori "wh".
> But, given that those languages are unrelated, that could be a very wild
> guess. There is also the fact that an "f" sound doesn't appear to occur
> in Australian languages -- or, at least, that's my non-expert impression.
Scientific linguistics doesn't come into it, since presumably the name was first
written down in the late 18th or early 19th century, and they were trying to
approximate alien sounds with familiar orthography. So "wh" presumably indicated
a voiceless (labial) (lost in most of English during the 20th century), which
could in turn be used to indicate something like a voiceless r; but a simple
voiceless r is just a tap and they could have written that with t; hence it
seems like a voiceless trill is most likely. Australian languages are famous
for the number of different r-like sounds they have.