Discussion:
Word of the day -- phreatic.
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Horace LaBadie
2018-05-20 17:54:29 UTC
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Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.

"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."

<https://abcnews.go.com/US/volcanic-activity-hawaii-prompts-evacuations-m
an-injured-lava/story?id=55304383>

"Large plumes of ash erupted from Kilauea on Saturday afternoon, as
well. The USGS told ABC News that the plume was another of the ongoing
phreatic -- steam-driven -- explosions that have been seen over the past
few days. The ash cloud on Saturday wasn't as high as ones earlier in
the week. "
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-20 18:33:32 UTC
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Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
Post by Horace LaBadie
<https://abcnews.go.com/US/volcanic-activity-hawaii-prompts-evacuations-m
an-injured-lava/story?id=55304383>
"Large plumes of ash erupted from Kilauea on Saturday afternoon, as
well. The USGS told ABC News that the plume was another of the ongoing
phreatic -- steam-driven -- explosions that have been seen over the past
few days. The ash cloud on Saturday wasn't as high as ones earlier in
the week. "
--
athel
J. J. Lodder
2018-05-20 19:41:28 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.

Jan
Sam Plusnet
2018-05-20 21:20:49 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
How about Laze?

"Laze is formed when hot lava hits the ocean, sending hydrochloric acid
and steam with fine glass particles into the air," the (Defense) agency
stated. "Health hazards of laze include lung, eye and skin irritation."
--
Sam Plusnet
Horace LaBadie
2018-05-21 00:25:29 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
How about Laze?
"Laze is formed when hot lava hits the ocean, sending hydrochloric acid
and steam with fine glass particles into the air," the (Defense) agency
stated. "Health hazards of laze include lung, eye and skin irritation."
As with vog, that is a term I have heard before. Lava + haze.

Pele's hair is the special term for volcanic glass threads that is
native to Hawaii.
Dr. Jai Maharaj
2018-05-23 20:49:04 UTC
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In article
Post by Horace LaBadie
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea
eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water
in the zone of saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating
and expansion of groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here
they talk often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
How about Laze?
"Laze is formed when hot lava hits the ocean, sending
hydrochloric acid and steam with fine glass particles into
the air," the (Defense) agency stated. "Health hazards of
laze include lung, eye and skin irritation."
As with vog, that is a term I have heard before. Lava +
haze.
Pele's hair is the special term for volcanic glass threads
that is native to Hawaii.
Pele's Hair is also a plant. The varieties I have seen are
similar to, or are, Spanish moss.

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.jai-maharaj
David Kleinecke
2018-05-20 21:34:20 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Groundwater hydrology as a practical engineering discipline
doesn't use the term "phreatic" (nor "vadose"). I wonder who
does.
Ross
2018-05-21 00:46:21 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Groundwater hydrology as a practical engineering discipline
doesn't use the term "phreatic" (nor "vadose"). I wonder who
does.
OED distinguishes two parallel usages:

1. Physical Geogr. Of...water in the zone of saturation
(below the water table), esp. that which is capable of movement.
Cf. vadose adj.
Citations 1891-1990

(and vadose (1894-1977) is "Of...underground water occurring above the
water-table")

2. Geol. Of...a volcanic eruption in which steam or mud is expelled
as a result of the sudden heating of underground water when it comes into contact with hot magma or rock.
Citations 1909-1991
J. J. Lodder
2018-05-21 07:44:42 UTC
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Post by David Kleinecke
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Groundwater hydrology as a practical engineering discipline
doesn't use the term "phreatic" (nor "vadose"). I wonder who
does.
Phreatic site:uk gives about 23 kilohits,
referring both to vulcanology and groundwater tables and flow.
So it is used in English.
Perhaps not general usage, but certainly as technical jargon.

By contrast, phreatique site:fr gives ten times as many hits,
indicating a greater penetration into everyday language,
but still mostly specialist usage,

Jan
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-23 10:57:38 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was reported
to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York (January, 3.3
inches). If you want to find a major city where there is no rain at all
you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of the year it looks as
if it might rain.

In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Post by J. J. Lodder
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Jan
--
athel
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-05-23 11:21:33 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was reported
to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York (January, 3.3
inches). If you want to find a major city where there is no rain at all
you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of the year it looks as
if it might rain.
In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Yes, but London is on the dry side of the country and it still rains one
day in three. In the West and North West it's a very different picture,
well in excess of the national average of four days in every ten. It's
not for nothing that they say in Lancashire that if you can't see the
Pennines it's raining and, if you can, it's going to rain.
HVS
2018-05-23 12:03:21 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was reported
to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York (January, 3.3
inches). If you want to find a major city where there is no rain at all
you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of the year it looks as
if it might rain.
In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Post by J. J. Lodder
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Jan
Pretty silly to think that "England" relies on rain/run-off sources of
water rather than wells, as it depends entirely on what part of England
you're talking about.

Parts of the north have run-off reservoirs, but one look at the limescale
build-up on kettles in these parts -- south of London; main water sources
artesian wells in a chalk-based landscape -- tells you we ain't drinkin' no
rainwater.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs),
indiscriminately mixed
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-23 17:11:32 UTC
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Post by HVS
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone
of
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was reported
to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York (January, 3.3
inches). If you want to find a major city where there is no rain at all
you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of the year it looks as
if it might rain.
In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Post by J. J. Lodder
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Jan
Pretty silly to think that "England" relies on rain/run-off sources of
water rather than wells, as it depends entirely on what part of England
you're talking about.
Parts of the north have run-off reservoirs, but one look at the limescale
build-up on kettles in these parts -- south of London; main water sources
artesian wells in a chalk-based landscape -- tells you we ain't drinkin' no
rainwater.
With the very notable exception of London, I think most of the big
cities in England do drink rainwater, even if they need to steal it
from the Welsh.
--
athel
s***@gmail.com
2018-05-23 19:46:51 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by HVS
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone
of
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was reported
to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York (January, 3.3
inches). If you want to find a major city where there is no rain at all
you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of the year it looks as
if it might rain.
In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Post by J. J. Lodder
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Jan
Pretty silly to think that "England" relies on rain/run-off sources of
water rather than wells, as it depends entirely on what part of England
you're talking about.
Parts of the north have run-off reservoirs, but one look at the limescale
build-up on kettles in these parts -- south of London; main water sources
artesian wells in a chalk-based landscape -- tells you we ain't drinkin' no
rainwater.
With the very notable exception of London, I think most of the big
cities in England do drink rainwater, even if they need to steal it
from the Welsh.
London was well equipped even in Roman Times [tm].
That Time Team series you guys blessed me with
had much of 2 programs on Roman Wells in Londinium, circa 71 AD.
(Slightly post-Boadica)

The well and its surprises in the 35 Gresham St episode,
and recreating the mechanism in a special episode a couple years later.
Season-and-Episode are in my history at home, so watch this space.

/dps
Paul Wolff
2018-05-23 21:14:18 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by HVS
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the
of
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was reported
to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York (January, 3.3
inches). If you want to find a major city where there is no rain at all
you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of the year it looks as
if it might rain.
In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Post by J. J. Lodder
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Pretty silly to think that "England" relies on rain/run-off sources of
water rather than wells, as it depends entirely on what part of England
you're talking about.
Parts of the north have run-off reservoirs, but one look at the limescale
build-up on kettles in these parts -- south of London; main water sources
artesian wells in a chalk-based landscape -- tells you we ain't drinkin' no
rainwater.
With the very notable exception of London, I think most of the big
cities in England do drink rainwater, even if they need to steal it
from the Welsh.
Most water is rainwater, isn't it? There's a diagram at the URL given
below which shows how rainwater hydrates this village after slow
filtration through the chalk downs until it hits the Upper Greensand and
oozes out in the many village springs - several oozy trickles can be
found in my garden. I think the residence time in the chalk is about 30
years. The graph showing the well level at Plentys refers to the indoor
well in the house three doors up the road from me.

<https://www.sustainable-blewbury.org.uk/water.htm>
--
Paul
Richard Tobin
2018-05-23 22:11:55 UTC
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Post by Paul Wolff
Most water is rainwater, isn't it?
I suppose there might be some water that has recently arrived on
earth and hasn't rained yet.

-- Richard
Mark Brader
2018-05-23 23:03:12 UTC
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Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Paul Wolff
Most water is rainwater, isn't it?
I suppose there might be some water that has recently arrived on
earth and hasn't rained yet.
Sure. All you people driving cars are making it all the time,
for one thing.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "I don't have *any* minions any more."
***@vex.net -- Clive Feather
Snidely
2018-05-24 09:09:09 UTC
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Just this Wednesday, Mark Brader explained that ...
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Paul Wolff
Most water is rainwater, isn't it?
I suppose there might be some water that has recently arrived on
earth and hasn't rained yet.
Sure. All you people driving cars are making it all the time,
for one thing.
The drivers themselves are also making water (from carbohydrates,
innit?), but isn't it likely that the carbohydrates were made from
water that had rained? I suppose that it isn't really an unreasonable
restriction to only count as "has rained" such molecules that the
hydrogens and the oxygen were previously joined and are now rejoined.

/dps
--
Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
precious heavy water.
_The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean
HVS
2018-05-24 12:46:53 UTC
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Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by HVS
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the
of
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was
reported to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York
(January, 3.3 inches). If you want to find a major city where there
is no rain at all you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of
the year it looks as if it might rain.
In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Post by J. J. Lodder
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Pretty silly to think that "England" relies on rain/run-off sources of
water rather than wells, as it depends entirely on what part of
England you're talking about.
Parts of the north have run-off reservoirs, but one look at the limescale
build-up on kettles in these parts -- south of London; main water
sources artesian wells in a chalk-based landscape -- tells you we
ain't drinkin' no rainwater.
With the very notable exception of London, I think most of the big
cities in England do drink rainwater, even if they need to steal it
from the Welsh.
Most water is rainwater, isn't it?
Indeed -- but when speaking of water for human use, there's a useful
distinction to be made between rainwater/run-off (rivers, lakes,
reservoirs) and groundwater (extraction from below ground), even though
groundwater inevitably started life as rainwater.
Post by Paul Wolff
There's a diagram at the URL given
below which shows how rainwater hydrates this village after slow
filtration through the chalk downs until it hits the Upper Greensand and
oozes out in the many village springs - several oozy trickles can be
found in my garden. I think the residence time in the chalk is about 30
years. The graph showing the well level at Plentys refers to the indoor
well in the house three doors up the road from me.
<https://www.sustainable-blewbury.org.uk/water.htm>
Prezackly. In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
Peter T. Daniels
2018-05-24 13:18:11 UTC
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Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather in
what must be extremely hard water?

NYC regularly wins "best tap water in America" contests, because it's piped
from distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and keeps
uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so lucky, but
the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations for local
conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their product).

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