Discussion:
Word of the day -- phreatic.
(too old to reply)
Horace LaBadie
2018-05-20 17:54:29 UTC
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Raw Message
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.

"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."

<https://abcnews.go.com/US/volcanic-activity-hawaii-prompts-evacuations-m
an-injured-lava/story?id=55304383>

"Large plumes of ash erupted from Kilauea on Saturday afternoon, as
well. The USGS told ABC News that the plume was another of the ongoing
phreatic -- steam-driven -- explosions that have been seen over the past
few days. The ash cloud on Saturday wasn't as high as ones earlier in
the week. "
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-20 18:33:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
Post by Horace LaBadie
<https://abcnews.go.com/US/volcanic-activity-hawaii-prompts-evacuations-m
an-injured-lava/story?id=55304383>
"Large plumes of ash erupted from Kilauea on Saturday afternoon, as
well. The USGS told ABC News that the plume was another of the ongoing
phreatic -- steam-driven -- explosions that have been seen over the past
few days. The ash cloud on Saturday wasn't as high as ones earlier in
the week. "
--
athel
J. J. Lodder
2018-05-20 19:41:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.

Jan
Sam Plusnet
2018-05-20 21:20:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
How about Laze?

"Laze is formed when hot lava hits the ocean, sending hydrochloric acid
and steam with fine glass particles into the air," the (Defense) agency
stated. "Health hazards of laze include lung, eye and skin irritation."
--
Sam Plusnet
Horace LaBadie
2018-05-21 00:25:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
How about Laze?
"Laze is formed when hot lava hits the ocean, sending hydrochloric acid
and steam with fine glass particles into the air," the (Defense) agency
stated. "Health hazards of laze include lung, eye and skin irritation."
As with vog, that is a term I have heard before. Lava + haze.

Pele's hair is the special term for volcanic glass threads that is
native to Hawaii.
Dr. Jai Maharaj
2018-05-23 20:49:04 UTC
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Raw Message
In article
Post by Horace LaBadie
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea
eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water
in the zone of saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating
and expansion of groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here
they talk often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
How about Laze?
"Laze is formed when hot lava hits the ocean, sending
hydrochloric acid and steam with fine glass particles into
the air," the (Defense) agency stated. "Health hazards of
laze include lung, eye and skin irritation."
As with vog, that is a term I have heard before. Lava +
haze.
Pele's hair is the special term for volcanic glass threads
that is native to Hawaii.
Pele's Hair is also a plant. The varieties I have seen are
similar to, or are, Spanish moss.

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.jai-maharaj
Colonel Edmund J. Burke
2018-05-24 13:54:20 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Dr. Jai Maharaj
In article
Post by Horace LaBadie
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea
eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water
in the zone of saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating
and expansion of groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here
they talk often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
How about Laze?
"Laze is formed when hot lava hits the ocean, sending
hydrochloric acid and steam with fine glass particles into
the air," the (Defense) agency stated. "Health hazards of
laze include lung, eye and skin irritation."
As with vog, that is a term I have heard before. Lava +
haze.
Pele's hair is the special term for volcanic glass threads
that is native to Hawaii.
Pele's Hair is also a plant. The varieties I have seen are
similar to, or are, Spanish moss.
Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.fan.jai-maharaj
Well, they had to call those things something.
David Kleinecke
2018-05-20 21:34:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Groundwater hydrology as a practical engineering discipline
doesn't use the term "phreatic" (nor "vadose"). I wonder who
does.
Ross
2018-05-21 00:46:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Groundwater hydrology as a practical engineering discipline
doesn't use the term "phreatic" (nor "vadose"). I wonder who
does.
OED distinguishes two parallel usages:

1. Physical Geogr. Of...water in the zone of saturation
(below the water table), esp. that which is capable of movement.
Cf. vadose adj.
Citations 1891-1990

(and vadose (1894-1977) is "Of...underground water occurring above the
water-table")

2. Geol. Of...a volcanic eruption in which steam or mud is expelled
as a result of the sudden heating of underground water when it comes into contact with hot magma or rock.
Citations 1909-1991
J. J. Lodder
2018-05-21 07:44:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Groundwater hydrology as a practical engineering discipline
doesn't use the term "phreatic" (nor "vadose"). I wonder who
does.
Phreatic site:uk gives about 23 kilohits,
referring both to vulcanology and groundwater tables and flow.
So it is used in English.
Perhaps not general usage, but certainly as technical jargon.

By contrast, phreatique site:fr gives ten times as many hits,
indicating a greater penetration into everyday language,
but still mostly specialist usage,

Jan
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-23 10:57:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was reported
to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York (January, 3.3
inches). If you want to find a major city where there is no rain at all
you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of the year it looks as
if it might rain.

In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Post by J. J. Lodder
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Jan
--
athel
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-05-23 11:21:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was reported
to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York (January, 3.3
inches). If you want to find a major city where there is no rain at all
you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of the year it looks as
if it might rain.
In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Yes, but London is on the dry side of the country and it still rains one
day in three. In the West and North West it's a very different picture,
well in excess of the national average of four days in every ten. It's
not for nothing that they say in Lancashire that if you can't see the
Pennines it's raining and, if you can, it's going to rain.
HVS
2018-05-23 12:03:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone of
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was reported
to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York (January, 3.3
inches). If you want to find a major city where there is no rain at all
you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of the year it looks as
if it might rain.
In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Post by J. J. Lodder
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Jan
Pretty silly to think that "England" relies on rain/run-off sources of
water rather than wells, as it depends entirely on what part of England
you're talking about.

Parts of the north have run-off reservoirs, but one look at the limescale
build-up on kettles in these parts -- south of London; main water sources
artesian wells in a chalk-based landscape -- tells you we ain't drinkin' no
rainwater.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs),
indiscriminately mixed
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-23 17:11:32 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HVS
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone
of
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was reported
to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York (January, 3.3
inches). If you want to find a major city where there is no rain at all
you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of the year it looks as
if it might rain.
In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Post by J. J. Lodder
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Jan
Pretty silly to think that "England" relies on rain/run-off sources of
water rather than wells, as it depends entirely on what part of England
you're talking about.
Parts of the north have run-off reservoirs, but one look at the limescale
build-up on kettles in these parts -- south of London; main water sources
artesian wells in a chalk-based landscape -- tells you we ain't drinkin' no
rainwater.
With the very notable exception of London, I think most of the big
cities in England do drink rainwater, even if they need to steal it
from the Welsh.
--
athel
s***@gmail.com
2018-05-23 19:46:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by HVS
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the zone
of
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they talk
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was reported
to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York (January, 3.3
inches). If you want to find a major city where there is no rain at all
you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of the year it looks as
if it might rain.
In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Post by J. J. Lodder
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Jan
Pretty silly to think that "England" relies on rain/run-off sources of
water rather than wells, as it depends entirely on what part of England
you're talking about.
Parts of the north have run-off reservoirs, but one look at the limescale
build-up on kettles in these parts -- south of London; main water sources
artesian wells in a chalk-based landscape -- tells you we ain't drinkin' no
rainwater.
With the very notable exception of London, I think most of the big
cities in England do drink rainwater, even if they need to steal it
from the Welsh.
London was well equipped even in Roman Times [tm].
That Time Team series you guys blessed me with
had much of 2 programs on Roman Wells in Londinium, circa 71 AD.
(Slightly post-Boadica)

The well and its surprises in the 35 Gresham St episode,
and recreating the mechanism in a special episode a couple years later.
Season-and-Episode are in my history at home, so watch this space.

/dps
Paul Wolff
2018-05-23 21:14:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by HVS
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the
of
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was reported
to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York (January, 3.3
inches). If you want to find a major city where there is no rain at all
you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of the year it looks as
if it might rain.
In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Post by J. J. Lodder
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Pretty silly to think that "England" relies on rain/run-off sources of
water rather than wells, as it depends entirely on what part of England
you're talking about.
Parts of the north have run-off reservoirs, but one look at the limescale
build-up on kettles in these parts -- south of London; main water sources
artesian wells in a chalk-based landscape -- tells you we ain't drinkin' no
rainwater.
With the very notable exception of London, I think most of the big
cities in England do drink rainwater, even if they need to steal it
from the Welsh.
Most water is rainwater, isn't it? There's a diagram at the URL given
below which shows how rainwater hydrates this village after slow
filtration through the chalk downs until it hits the Upper Greensand and
oozes out in the many village springs - several oozy trickles can be
found in my garden. I think the residence time in the chalk is about 30
years. The graph showing the well level at Plentys refers to the indoor
well in the house three doors up the road from me.

<https://www.sustainable-blewbury.org.uk/water.htm>
--
Paul
Richard Tobin
2018-05-23 22:11:55 UTC
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Post by Paul Wolff
Most water is rainwater, isn't it?
I suppose there might be some water that has recently arrived on
earth and hasn't rained yet.

-- Richard
Mark Brader
2018-05-23 23:03:12 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Paul Wolff
Most water is rainwater, isn't it?
I suppose there might be some water that has recently arrived on
earth and hasn't rained yet.
Sure. All you people driving cars are making it all the time,
for one thing.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "I don't have *any* minions any more."
***@vex.net -- Clive Feather
Snidely
2018-05-24 09:09:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Just this Wednesday, Mark Brader explained that ...
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Paul Wolff
Most water is rainwater, isn't it?
I suppose there might be some water that has recently arrived on
earth and hasn't rained yet.
Sure. All you people driving cars are making it all the time,
for one thing.
The drivers themselves are also making water (from carbohydrates,
innit?), but isn't it likely that the carbohydrates were made from
water that had rained? I suppose that it isn't really an unreasonable
restriction to only count as "has rained" such molecules that the
hydrogens and the oxygen were previously joined and are now rejoined.

/dps
--
Killing a mouse was hardly a Nobel Prize-worthy exercise, and Lawrence
went apopleptic when he learned a lousy rodent had peed away all his
precious heavy water.
_The Disappearing Spoon_, Sam Kean
HVS
2018-05-24 12:46:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by HVS
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the
of
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was
reported to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York
(January, 3.3 inches). If you want to find a major city where there
is no rain at all you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of
the year it looks as if it might rain.
In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Post by J. J. Lodder
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Pretty silly to think that "England" relies on rain/run-off sources of
water rather than wells, as it depends entirely on what part of
England you're talking about.
Parts of the north have run-off reservoirs, but one look at the limescale
build-up on kettles in these parts -- south of London; main water
sources artesian wells in a chalk-based landscape -- tells you we
ain't drinkin' no rainwater.
With the very notable exception of London, I think most of the big
cities in England do drink rainwater, even if they need to steal it
from the Welsh.
Most water is rainwater, isn't it?
Indeed -- but when speaking of water for human use, there's a useful
distinction to be made between rainwater/run-off (rivers, lakes,
reservoirs) and groundwater (extraction from below ground), even though
groundwater inevitably started life as rainwater.
Post by Paul Wolff
There's a diagram at the URL given
below which shows how rainwater hydrates this village after slow
filtration through the chalk downs until it hits the Upper Greensand and
oozes out in the many village springs - several oozy trickles can be
found in my garden. I think the residence time in the chalk is about 30
years. The graph showing the well level at Plentys refers to the indoor
well in the house three doors up the road from me.
<https://www.sustainable-blewbury.org.uk/water.htm>
Prezackly. In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
Peter T. Daniels
2018-05-24 13:18:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather in
what must be extremely hard water?

NYC regularly wins "best tap water in America" contests, because it's piped
from distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and keeps
uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so lucky, but
the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations for local
conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their product).
charles
2018-05-24 13:37:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply relies
heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on
the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather in
what must be extremely hard water?
NYC regularly wins "best tap water in America" contests, because it's
piped from distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and
keeps uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so
lucky, but the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations for
local conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their product).
far more important is the correct blend of tea for hard water areas.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Paul Wolff
2018-05-24 13:45:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply relies
heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on
the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather in
what must be extremely hard water?
NYC regularly wins "best tap water in America" contests, because it's
piped from distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and
keeps uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so
lucky, but the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations for
local conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their product).
far more important is the correct blend of tea for hard water areas.
Our water softener has a by-pass to permit hard water still to be drawn
for making tea to my wife's requirements.
--
Paul
Paul Wolff
2018-05-24 13:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather in
what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
NYC regularly wins "best tap water in America" contests, because it's piped
from distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and keeps
uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so lucky, but
the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations for local
conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their product).
--
Paul
Peter T. Daniels
2018-05-24 13:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather in
what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
How appropriate!
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
NYC regularly wins "best tap water in America" contests, because it's piped
from distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and keeps
uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so lucky, but
the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations for local
conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their product).
HVS
2018-05-24 14:34:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants
in the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as
"rainwater" on the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Cool. I don't seem to have the equivalent effect on our water, alas.
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
NYC regularly wins "best tap water in America" contests, because it's
piped from distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and
keeps uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so
lucky, but the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations
for local conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their product).
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
charles
2018-05-24 14:37:53 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply relies
heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on
the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-05-24 15:01:46 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply relies
heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on
the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Imaginary?
Paul Wolff
2018-05-24 18:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply relies
heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on
the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.

Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
--
Paul
charles
2018-05-24 20:31:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous
plants in the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as
"rainwater" on the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to
lather in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water
softener. It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
a sherry brand name (Bristol Cream) - any others?
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Paul Wolff
2018-05-24 21:08:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous
plants in the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as
"rainwater" on the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to
lather in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water
softener. It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
a sherry brand name (Bristol Cream) - any others?
How about water softeners? <www.harveywatersofteners.co.uk>
--
Paul
CDB
2018-05-25 09:38:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous
plants in the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as
"rainwater" on the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to
lather in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water
softener. It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
a sherry brand name (Bristol Cream) - any others?
Harvey Wallbanger? They're too sweet, though.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-05-25 10:52:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous
plants in the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as
"rainwater" on the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to
lather in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water
softener. It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
a sherry brand name (Bristol Cream) - any others?
Harvey Wallbanger? They're too sweet, though.
<smile>

There is no connection between the brand name Harveys and the Harvey
Wallbanger cocktail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_%26_Sons

John Harvey & Sons is a brand (trading name) of a wine and sherry
blending and merchant business started by John Harvey (the second)
in Bristol, England in 1796. The business within 60 years had
blended the first dessert sherry dubbed 'cream' which has changed
little since 1880 and is known as Harveys Bristol Cream.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Wallbanger

The Harvey Wallbanger is a mixed drink made with vodka, Galliano,
and orange juice.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
CDB
2018-05-25 14:18:55 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
[it's a hard, hard, hard, hard, a hard rain's go-onna fa-a-all]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by CDB
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a
water softener. It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an
imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never
cottoned on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink
Rabbit? The Curse of the Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy,
Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc? Probably none of the
above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to
anyone.
a sherry brand name (Bristol Cream) - any others?
Harvey Wallbanger? They're too sweet, though.
<smile>
There is no connection between the brand name Harveys and the Harvey
Wallbanger cocktail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_%26_Sons
John Harvey & Sons is a brand (trading name) of a wine and sherry
blending and merchant business started by John Harvey (the second)
in Bristol, England in 1796. The business within 60 years had
blended the first dessert sherry dubbed 'cream' which has changed
little since 1880 and is known as Harveys Bristol Cream.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Wallbanger
The Harvey Wallbanger is a mixed drink made with vodka, Galliano,
and orange juice.
I had one once in Toronto in the '70s, at a party where they were
genially forcing them on everybody.

I find HBC a bit sweet too, but I was responding to what I took to be
a minor challenge to the group from Charles, to name other uses of
"Harvey" than for water-heaters and sherry.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-05-25 17:32:10 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CDB
[it's a hard, hard, hard, hard, a hard rain's go-onna fa-a-all]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by CDB
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a
water softener. It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never
cottoned on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink
Rabbit? The Curse of the Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy,
Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc? Probably none of the
above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
a sherry brand name (Bristol Cream) - any others?
Harvey Wallbanger? They're too sweet, though.
<smile>
There is no connection between the brand name Harveys and the Harvey
Wallbanger cocktail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_%26_Sons
John Harvey & Sons is a brand (trading name) of a wine and sherry
blending and merchant business started by John Harvey (the second)
in Bristol, England in 1796. The business within 60 years had
blended the first dessert sherry dubbed 'cream' which has changed
little since 1880 and is known as Harveys Bristol Cream.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Wallbanger
The Harvey Wallbanger is a mixed drink made with vodka, Galliano,
and orange juice.
I had one once in Toronto in the '70s, at a party where they were
genially forcing them on everybody.
I find HBC a bit sweet too, but I was responding to what I took to be
a minor challenge to the group from Charles, to name other uses of
"Harvey" than for water-heaters and sherry.
There is a list here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey

including
Harvey mannequin, an early medical simulator
and
"Harvey" or "Harvey Smith", term for the V sign § V sign as an
insult
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
HVS
2018-05-25 14:36:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous
plants in the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as
"rainwater" on the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to
lather in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water
softener. It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
a sherry brand name (Bristol Cream) - any others?
Also a long-established, independent brewery in Lewes, East Sussex --
https://www.harveys.org.uk/

ObAUE. I suspect that anyone who has never heard "Lewes" spoken as a place-
name would almost certainly default to the wrong pronunciation.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs),
indiscriminately mixed
Peter Moylan
2018-05-26 01:26:29 UTC
Permalink
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Post by HVS
ObAUE. I suspect that anyone who has never heard "Lewes" spoken as a place-
name would almost certainly default to the wrong pronunciation.
Many UK place names seem to have that property.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Mark Brader
2018-05-26 04:36:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by HVS
ObAUE. I suspect that anyone who has never heard "Lewes" spoken as a place-
name would almost certainly default to the wrong pronunciation.
Many UK place names seem to have that property.
Indeed. Well, I qualify, so let me guess: I'd pronounce it like "lose".
--
Mark Brader | "The inability to distinguish between epistemic and deontic
Toronto | interpretations of 'why', which is common among children,
***@vex.net | is the source of a great deal of religion." --John Lawler
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-26 05:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by HVS
ObAUE. I suspect that anyone who has never heard "Lewes" spoken as a place-
name would almost certainly default to the wrong pronunciation.
Many UK place names seem to have that property.
Indeed. Well, I qualify, so let me guess: I'd pronounce it like "lose".
Well, I don't qualify, so I'll just say that no, it isn't that.
--
athel
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-05-26 10:39:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by HVS
ObAUE. I suspect that anyone who has never heard "Lewes" spoken as a place-
name would almost certainly default to the wrong pronunciation.
Many UK place names seem to have that property.
Indeed. Well, I qualify, so let me guess: I'd pronounce it like "lose".
--
Nope. It's two syllables. And if you can't get that right I guess we'd
better not even mention Cholmondeley Castle!
HVS
2018-05-29 12:56:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by HVS
ObAUE. I suspect that anyone who has never heard "Lewes" spoken as a
place- name would almost certainly default to the wrong pronunciation.
Many UK place names seem to have that property.
Indeed. Well, I qualify, so let me guess: I'd pronounce it like "lose".
That's what I'd expect, but it's bi-syllabic -- think of Inspector Morse's
sidekick.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
HVS
2018-05-29 12:54:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by HVS
ObAUE. I suspect that anyone who has never heard "Lewes" spoken as a
place-name would almost certainly default to the wrong pronunciation.
Many UK place names seem to have that property.
Yes, very much so.

A place-name that illustrates that spelling can be a very poor guide to local
pronunciations is the village of Coggeshall, near Colchester.

On the face of it, the name looks like a possessive - the location of a
manor-house/hall owned by someone named something like "Cogge" -- but
although the origin is disputed, that's apparently considered to be the least
likely origin.

I guessed something like "Cog's-hall", "Cogs'll" or perhaps "Cox'll" when I
first encountered it; the local pronunciation, though, is tri-syllabic:
"Cogg-e-shall".

I don't think that would score very high on the "take a guess" scorecard.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
musika
2018-05-29 15:11:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HVS
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by HVS
ObAUE. I suspect that anyone who has never heard "Lewes" spoken
as a place-name would almost certainly default to the wrong
pronunciation.
Many UK place names seem to have that property.
Yes, very much so.
A place-name that illustrates that spelling can be a very poor guide
to local pronunciations is the village of Coggeshall, near
Colchester.
On the face of it, the name looks like a possessive - the location of
a manor-house/hall owned by someone named something like "Cogge" --
but although the origin is disputed, that's apparently considered to
be the least likely origin.
I guessed something like "Cog's-hall", "Cogs'll" or perhaps "Cox'll"
when I first encountered it; the local pronunciation, though, is
tri-syllabic: "Cogg-e-shall".
I don't think that would score very high on the "take a guess"
scorecard.
Or, nearer to me and more well known, Lilleshall.
--
Ray
UK
HVS
2018-05-29 15:26:34 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by musika
Post by HVS
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by HVS
ObAUE. I suspect that anyone who has never heard "Lewes" spoken
as a place-name would almost certainly default to the wrong
pronunciation.
Many UK place names seem to have that property.
Yes, very much so.
A place-name that illustrates that spelling can be a very poor guide
to local pronunciations is the village of Coggeshall, near
Colchester.
On the face of it, the name looks like a possessive - the location of
a manor-house/hall owned by someone named something like "Cogge" --
but although the origin is disputed, that's apparently considered to
be the least likely origin.
I guessed something like "Cog's-hall", "Cogs'll" or perhaps "Cox'll"
when I first encountered it; the local pronunciation, though, is
tri-syllabic: "Cogg-e-shall".
I don't think that would score very high on the "take a guess" scorecard.
Or, nearer to me and more well known, Lilleshall.
Yes indeed. I'm not sure if that's usually a sign of a place-name that
looks like a possessive but isn't, or whether it's a case of the "hall"
capturing the "s" from the personal name.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
Kerr-Mudd,John
2018-05-29 15:41:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HVS
Post by musika
Post by HVS
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by HVS
ObAUE. I suspect that anyone who has never heard "Lewes" spoken
as a place-name would almost certainly default to the wrong
pronunciation.
Many UK place names seem to have that property.
Yes, very much so.
A place-name that illustrates that spelling can be a very poor guide
to local pronunciations is the village of Coggeshall, near
Colchester.
On the face of it, the name looks like a possessive - the location of
a manor-house/hall owned by someone named something like "Cogge" --
but although the origin is disputed, that's apparently considered to
be the least likely origin.
I guessed something like "Cog's-hall", "Cogs'll" or perhaps "Cox'll"
when I first encountered it; the local pronunciation, though, is
tri-syllabic: "Cogg-e-shall".
I don't think that would score very high on the "take a guess" scorecard.
Or, nearer to me and more well known, Lilleshall.
Yes indeed. I'm not sure if that's usually a sign of a place-name that
looks like a possessive but isn't, or whether it's a case of the "hall"
capturing the "s" from the personal name.
c.f. (and why not?) Viv Stanshall.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-29 16:42:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HVS
Post by HVS
Post by musika
Post by HVS
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by HVS
ObAUE. I suspect that anyone who has never heard "Lewes" spoken
as a place-name would almost certainly default to the wrong
pronunciation.
Many UK place names seem to have that property.
Yes, very much so.
A place-name that illustrates that spelling can be a very poor guide
to local pronunciations is the village of Coggeshall, near
Colchester.
On the face of it, the name looks like a possessive - the location of
a manor-house/hall owned by someone named something like "Cogge" --
but although the origin is disputed, that's apparently considered to
be the least likely origin.
I guessed something like "Cog's-hall", "Cogs'll" or perhaps "Cox'll"
when I first encountered it; the local pronunciation, though, is
tri-syllabic: "Cogg-e-shall".
I don't think that would score very high on the "take a guess" scorecard.
Or, nearer to me and more well known, Lilleshall.
Yes indeed. I'm not sure if that's usually a sign of a place-name that
looks like a possessive but isn't, or whether it's a case of the
"hall"
Post by HVS
capturing the "s" from the personal name.
c.f. (and why not?) Viv Stanshall.
Gosh. Born a week before me; died in 1995. How did he pronounce "Stanshall"?
--
athel
the Omrud
2018-05-29 17:09:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
c.f. (and why not?) Viv Stanshall.
Gosh. Born a week before me; died in 1995. How did he pronounce "Stanshall"?
STAN-sh'll

One of the great drunks of our age. I saw him at Manchester in about
1976. He could barely stand up.

By comparison, we had Neil Innes a couple of weeks later. He was the
model of a utterly professional entertainer and is of course still going
strong.
--
David
Paul Wolff
2018-05-28 22:55:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HVS
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous
plants in the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as
"rainwater" on the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to
lather in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water
softener. It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
a sherry brand name (Bristol Cream) - any others?
Also a long-established, independent brewery in Lewes, East Sussex --
https://www.harveys.org.uk/
Harvey's best bitter, a must for every visitor to East Sussex. How could
I have overlooked plugging it earlier?
Post by HVS
ObAUE. I suspect that anyone who has never heard "Lewes" spoken as a place-
name would almost certainly default to the wrong pronunciation.
The town connects itself with Thomas Paine. There's a Harvey's tied
house there called 'The Rights of Man', of which I have warm memories.
Support it when you next pass through (it's in the High Street).
--
Paul
Peter T. Daniels
2018-05-29 03:19:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by HVS
ObAUE. I suspect that anyone who has never heard "Lewes" spoken as a
place-name would almost certainly default to the wrong pronunciation.
The town connects itself with Thomas Paine. There's a Harvey's tied
house there called 'The Rights of Man', of which I have warm memories.
Support it when you next pass through (it's in the High Street).
"The Rights of Man" is the ship in "Billy Budd." (Symbolism alert.)
b***@shaw.ca
2018-05-25 05:29:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply relies
heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on
the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
Harvey is the name of a play, and of a 1950 movie with James Stewart.
It's a comedy, mostly, about an amiable drunk (Stewart) who is friends
with an invisible six-foot, three-and-half-inch pooka, a creature
from Celtic mythology who seems to fill the trickster role and has
been portrayed as a very large upright rabbit. I haven't read or seen
the play but in the film, various people in Jimmy Stewart's
world gradually start to believe Harvey is real, and develop
relationships with him. I think it's essentially a defence of
whimsy and eccentricity.

bill
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-05-25 11:03:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply relies
heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on
the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
Harvey is the name of a play, and of a 1950 movie with James Stewart.
It's a comedy, mostly, about an amiable drunk (Stewart) who is friends
with an invisible six-foot, three-and-half-inch pooka, a creature
from Celtic mythology who seems to fill the trickster role and has
been portrayed as a very large upright rabbit. I haven't read or seen
the play but in the film, various people in Jimmy Stewart's
world gradually start to believe Harvey is real, and develop
relationships with him. I think it's essentially a defence of
whimsy and eccentricity.
That's a very reductionist assessment. The play earned Mary Chase
a Pulitzer Prize!
Peter T. Daniels
2018-05-25 13:59:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Harvey is the name of a play, and of a 1950 movie with James Stewart.
It's a comedy, mostly, about an amiable drunk (Stewart) who is friends
with an invisible six-foot, three-and-half-inch pooka, a creature
from Celtic mythology who seems to fill the trickster role and has
been portrayed as a very large upright rabbit. I haven't read or seen
the play but in the film, various people in Jimmy Stewart's
world gradually start to believe Harvey is real, and develop
relationships with him. I think it's essentially a defence of
whimsy and eccentricity.
That's a very reductionist assessment. The play earned Mary Chase
a Pulitzer Prize!
That doesn't necessarily reflect absolute quality of the work, but only
its status compared with other productions that season.

I don't know how often the Pulitzer committee declines to make an award
in a particular category, but remember that Sinclair Lewis (and he wasn't
the only one) declined the award for one of his novels on the grounds
that it reflected nothing more than commercial success. He did not,
however, decline the Nobel Prize for Literature some years later.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-05-25 13:54:54 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply relies
heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on
the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
Harvey is the name of a play, and of a 1950 movie with James Stewart.
It's a comedy, mostly, about an amiable drunk (Stewart) who is friends
with an invisible six-foot, three-and-half-inch pooka, a creature
from Celtic mythology who seems to fill the trickster role and has
been portrayed as a very large upright rabbit. I haven't read or seen
the play but in the film, various people in Jimmy Stewart's
world gradually start to believe Harvey is real, and develop
relationships with him. I think it's essentially a defence of
whimsy and eccentricity.
The last time it was on Broadway, the Stewart role was taken by Jim
Parsons (back before he was even "an actor who happens to be gay," which
was his status one or two summers later when he was in *The Normal
Heart*; this season he is a member of "a cast of nine out-and-proud
openly gay actors," including, surprisingly, Zachary Quinto, in the
first Broadway production of *The Boys in the Band* on its 50th
anniversary), and the invisible rabbit was widely interpreted as
representing (gasp!) homosexuality rather than alcoholism. (The odd
thing is that Parsons was happily partnered even before *The Big Bang
Theory* started its run a decade ago, and I expected for years that
Sheldon Cooper would eventually discover same-sex attraction, but it
didn't happen in that direction.)
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-05-25 14:05:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply relies
heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on
the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
Harvey is the name of a play, and of a 1950 movie with James Stewart.
It's a comedy, mostly, about an amiable drunk (Stewart) who is friends
with an invisible six-foot, three-and-half-inch pooka, a creature
from Celtic mythology who seems to fill the trickster role and has
been portrayed as a very large upright rabbit. I haven't read or seen
the play but in the film, various people in Jimmy Stewart's
world gradually start to believe Harvey is real, and develop
relationships with him. I think it's essentially a defence of
whimsy and eccentricity.
The last time it was on Broadway, the Stewart role was taken by Jim
Parsons (back before he was even "an actor who happens to be gay," which
was his status one or two summers later when he was in *The Normal
Heart*; this season he is a member of "a cast of nine out-and-proud
openly gay actors," including, surprisingly, Zachary Quinto, in the
first Broadway production of *The Boys in the Band* on its 50th
anniversary), and the invisible rabbit was widely interpreted as
representing (gasp!) homosexuality rather than alcoholism. (The odd
thing is that Parsons was happily partnered even before *The Big Bang
Theory* started its run a decade ago, and I expected for years that
Sheldon Cooper would eventually discover same-sex attraction, but it
didn't happen in that direction.)
What's surprising about Zachary Quinto?
Peter T. Daniels
2018-05-25 14:29:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply relies
heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on
the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
Harvey is the name of a play, and of a 1950 movie with James Stewart.
It's a comedy, mostly, about an amiable drunk (Stewart) who is friends
with an invisible six-foot, three-and-half-inch pooka, a creature
from Celtic mythology who seems to fill the trickster role and has
been portrayed as a very large upright rabbit. I haven't read or seen
the play but in the film, various people in Jimmy Stewart's
world gradually start to believe Harvey is real, and develop
relationships with him. I think it's essentially a defence of
whimsy and eccentricity.
The last time it was on Broadway, the Stewart role was taken by Jim
Parsons (back before he was even "an actor who happens to be gay," which
was his status one or two summers later when he was in *The Normal
Heart*; this season he is a member of "a cast of nine out-and-proud
openly gay actors," including, surprisingly, Zachary Quinto, in the
first Broadway production of *The Boys in the Band* on its 50th
anniversary), and the invisible rabbit was widely interpreted as
representing (gasp!) homosexuality rather than alcoholism. (The odd
thing is that Parsons was happily partnered even before *The Big Bang
Theory* started its run a decade ago, and I expected for years that
Sheldon Cooper would eventually discover same-sex attraction, but it
didn't happen in that direction.)
What's surprising about Zachary Quinto?
I'd never heard that he was gay.

I was waiting for Colbert to ask him how he got along with Parsons,
given Sheldon's continual ragging on Quinto's version of Spock.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-05-25 15:19:19 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply relies
heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on
the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
Harvey is the name of a play, and of a 1950 movie with James Stewart.
It's a comedy, mostly, about an amiable drunk (Stewart) who is friends
with an invisible six-foot, three-and-half-inch pooka, a creature
from Celtic mythology who seems to fill the trickster role and has
been portrayed as a very large upright rabbit. I haven't read or seen
the play but in the film, various people in Jimmy Stewart's
world gradually start to believe Harvey is real, and develop
relationships with him. I think it's essentially a defence of
whimsy and eccentricity.
The last time it was on Broadway, the Stewart role was taken by Jim
Parsons (back before he was even "an actor who happens to be gay," which
was his status one or two summers later when he was in *The Normal
Heart*; this season he is a member of "a cast of nine out-and-proud
openly gay actors," including, surprisingly, Zachary Quinto, in the
first Broadway production of *The Boys in the Band* on its 50th
anniversary), and the invisible rabbit was widely interpreted as
representing (gasp!) homosexuality rather than alcoholism. (The odd
thing is that Parsons was happily partnered even before *The Big Bang
Theory* started its run a decade ago, and I expected for years that
Sheldon Cooper would eventually discover same-sex attraction, but it
didn't happen in that direction.)
What's surprising about Zachary Quinto?
I'd never heard that he was gay.
I was waiting for Colbert to ask him how he got along with Parsons,
given Sheldon's continual ragging on Quinto's version of Spock.
He very publicly outed himself in 2011 but but his closet had hardly
been securely closed prior to that.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-05-25 16:11:00 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter T. Daniels
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply relies
heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on
the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
Harvey is the name of a play, and of a 1950 movie with James Stewart.
It's a comedy, mostly, about an amiable drunk (Stewart) who is friends
with an invisible six-foot, three-and-half-inch pooka, a creature
from Celtic mythology who seems to fill the trickster role and has
been portrayed as a very large upright rabbit. I haven't read or seen
the play but in the film, various people in Jimmy Stewart's
world gradually start to believe Harvey is real, and develop
relationships with him. I think it's essentially a defence of
whimsy and eccentricity.
The last time it was on Broadway, the Stewart role was taken by Jim
Parsons (back before he was even "an actor who happens to be gay," which
was his status one or two summers later when he was in *The Normal
Heart*; this season he is a member of "a cast of nine out-and-proud
openly gay actors," including, surprisingly, Zachary Quinto, in the
first Broadway production of *The Boys in the Band* on its 50th
anniversary), and the invisible rabbit was widely interpreted as
representing (gasp!) homosexuality rather than alcoholism. (The odd
thing is that Parsons was happily partnered even before *The Big Bang
Theory* started its run a decade ago, and I expected for years that
Sheldon Cooper would eventually discover same-sex attraction, but it
didn't happen in that direction.)
What's surprising about Zachary Quinto?
I'd never heard that he was gay.
I was waiting for Colbert to ask him how he got along with Parsons,
given Sheldon's continual ragging on Quinto's version of Spock.
He very publicly outed himself in 2011 but but his closet had hardly
been securely closed prior to that.
I guess I'm just not a viewer of TMZ or a reader of People Magazine.
Jerry Friedman
2018-05-26 00:09:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
...
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never cottoned
on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The Curse of the
Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey? What's up, Doc?
Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
It wasn't obvious to me.

The ambiguity of "anyone" would be perfect for Navi.
--
Jerry Friedman
Paul Wolff
2018-05-28 23:02:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never
cottoned on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The
Curse of the Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey?
What's up, Doc? Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
It wasn't obvious to me.
Oh well. Why would a car be called Honda? Why would a beer be called
Budweiser? Why would a water softener be called Harvey? Though I can see
that Harvey's already being a personal name may cloud the issue.
Post by Jerry Friedman
The ambiguity of "anyone" would be perfect for Navi.
It's a marvel how we absorb, and learn to apply, such delicacies of
meaning.
--
Paul
Tony Cooper
2018-05-28 23:33:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 29 May 2018 00:02:47 +0100, Paul Wolff
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never
cottoned on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The
Curse of the Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey?
What's up, Doc? Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
It wasn't obvious to me.
Oh well. Why would a car be called Honda? Why would a beer be called
Budweiser? Why would a water softener be called Harvey? Though I can see
that Harvey's already being a personal name may cloud the issue.
Some people give their automobile a name. My Aunt Martha referred to
her Ford as "Betsy". Winter mornings she might have been heard to say
"I wonder if Betsy will start this morning".

Many years ago, we owned only one car. A family friend had a 1950s
Oldsmobile 98 - a huge, four-door car without power steering - that he
gave to us. My barely-5'-tall wife referred to it as "The Beast". We
were living in Evanston IL at the time, and she often had to parallel
park the car. It sometimes took her longer to wrestle the car into a
parking space than she would spend on the errand that required her to
park.

The dry cleaners we used did not have a parking lot. My wife would
call them from home, tell her she was on her way, and the lady at the
dry cleaners would bring the cleaning out to my wife who would remain
in the car double-parked in front of the cleaners...even if a parking
space was available.

Drifting a bit...In those days, it seemed like we dropped off/picked
up dry cleaning once a week. Now, I can't remember when we last used
a dry cleaner. Maybe my wife still does, but I haven't noticed.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Tony Cooper
2018-05-29 00:05:08 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 28 May 2018 19:33:57 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Drifting a bit...In those days, it seemed like we dropped off/picked
up dry cleaning once a week. Now, I can't remember when we last used
a dry cleaner. Maybe my wife still does, but I haven't noticed.
I should add to that that 1) Living in Florida means we wear very few
clothing articles made of material that requires dry cleaning, and, 2)
as a retired person, suits are worn only to weddings and funerals so
they don't often need to go to the cleaners.

Northerners and younger people may still use dry cleaners frequently.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
RH Draney
2018-05-29 01:04:45 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Some people give their automobile a name. My Aunt Martha referred to
her Ford as "Betsy". Winter mornings she might have been heard to say
"I wonder if Betsy will start this morning".
Many years ago, we owned only one car. A family friend had a 1950s
Oldsmobile 98 - a huge, four-door car without power steering - that he
gave to us. My barely-5'-tall wife referred to it as "The Beast". We
were living in Evanston IL at the time, and she often had to parallel
park the car. It sometimes took her longer to wrestle the car into a
parking space than she would spend on the errand that required her to
park.
The only car anyone in my family ever owned that was given a special
name was "The White Rhino"...that's if you discount "Honey", my mother's
name for her 1965 Ford Falcon, bestowed because it came with California
plates bearing the letters RHR, which she decided meant "Run, Honey,
Run"....

There are names that you should never give your car because they're
associated with bad luck:

https://youtu.be/dWadFRtjKws

....r
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-29 06:09:01 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by RH Draney
Post by Tony Cooper
Some people give their automobile a name. My Aunt Martha referred to
her Ford as "Betsy". Winter mornings she might have been heard to say
"I wonder if Betsy will start this morning".
Many years ago, we owned only one car. A family friend had a 1950s
Oldsmobile 98 - a huge, four-door car without power steering - that he
gave to us. My barely-5'-tall wife referred to it as "The Beast". We
were living in Evanston IL at the time, and she often had to parallel
park the car. It sometimes took her longer to wrestle the car into a
parking space than she would spend on the errand that required her to
park.
The only car anyone in my family ever owned that was given a special
name was "The White Rhino"...that's if you discount "Honey", my
mother's name for her 1965 Ford Falcon, bestowed because it came with
California plates bearing the letters RHR, which she decided meant
"Run, Honey, Run"....
The first car I remember was called Flora, I think. The next one,
bought in about 1957, was called Poppy, because it was a Hillman
Californian. Later cars have not had names.
Post by RH Draney
There are names that you should never give your car because they're

....r
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2018-05-29 11:45:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first car I remember was called Flora, I think. The next one,
bought in about 1957, was called Poppy, because it was a Hillman
Californian. Later cars have not had names.
"because"?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-29 12:48:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first car I remember was called Flora, I think. The next one,
bought in about 1957, was called Poppy, because it was a Hillman
Californian. Later cars have not had names.
"because"?
Because the state flower of California is the Californian poppy. I
don't suppose that my parents knew that in 1957, but they'd certainly
encountered Californian poppies in gardens.

(I was wrong about Flora: I don't know where that name came from; the
real name was Anna.)
--
athel
David Kleinecke
2018-05-29 16:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first car I remember was called Flora, I think. The next one,
bought in about 1957, was called Poppy, because it was a Hillman
Californian. Later cars have not had names.
"because"?
Because the state flower of California is the Californian poppy. I
don't suppose that my parents knew that in 1957, but they'd certainly
encountered Californian poppies in gardens.
I'm an almost native Californian (came at age one) and
I think I have never before heard the flower called a
"Californian" poppy. British?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-29 17:16:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first car I remember was called Flora, I think. The next one,
bought in about 1957, was called Poppy, because it was a Hillman
Californian. Later cars have not had names.
"because"?
Because the state flower of California is the Californian poppy. I
don't suppose that my parents knew that in 1957, but they'd certainly
encountered Californian poppies in gardens.
I'm an almost native Californian (came at age one) and
I think I have never before heard the flower called a
"Californian" poppy. British?
Yes. I know that Californians just call them poppies, but real poppies
(the sort you get opium from) are far more common in Europe, so we need
an adjective for those yellow things that grow in California.

I was once married to a native Californian (from age zero). She was the
only one at a party of more than 40 people in the house of my then boss.
--
athel
David Kleinecke
2018-05-29 17:42:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first car I remember was called Flora, I think. The next one,
bought in about 1957, was called Poppy, because it was a Hillman
Californian. Later cars have not had names.
"because"?
Because the state flower of California is the Californian poppy. I
don't suppose that my parents knew that in 1957, but they'd certainly
encountered Californian poppies in gardens.
I'm an almost native Californian (came at age one) and
I think I have never before heard the flower called a
"Californian" poppy. British?
Yes. I know that Californians just call them poppies, but real poppies
(the sort you get opium from) are far more common in Europe, so we need
an adjective for those yellow things that grow in California.
We often call them California poppies because we have
other poppies - exotic and native, the Matilija poppy
might be best known. But never CaliforniaN.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-29 18:50:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first car I remember was called Flora, I think. The next one,
bought in about 1957, was called Poppy, because it was a Hillman
Californian. Later cars have not had names.
"because"?
Because the state flower of California is the Californian poppy. I
don't suppose that my parents knew that in 1957, but they'd certainly
encountered Californian poppies in gardens.
I'm an almost native Californian (came at age one) and
I think I have never before heard the flower called a
"Californian" poppy. British?
Yes. I know that Californians just call them poppies, but real poppies
(the sort you get opium from) are far more common in Europe, so we need
an adjective for those yellow things that grow in California.
We often call them California poppies because we have
other poppies - exotic and native, the Matilija poppy
might be best known. But never CaliforniaN.
You have driven me to check the nGrams. In American English "California
poppy" is overwhelmingly more frequent than "Californian poppy"; in
British English "Californian poppy" is somewhat more frequent than
"California poppy". So we're both right about our own dialects.

Gardeners sometimes call it Eschscholzia -- a challenging word to spell
and to pronounce: I have mostly heard it as isKOLsha [ɪs'kɔlʃə] -- but
also interesting as one of the few words in English with six consonants
in a row. Are there any others?
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2018-05-29 20:02:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first car I remember was called Flora, I think. The next one,
bought in about 1957, was called Poppy, because it was a Hillman
Californian. Later cars have not had names.
"because"?
Because the state flower of California is the Californian poppy. I
don't suppose that my parents knew that in 1957, but they'd certainly
encountered Californian poppies in gardens.
I'm an almost native Californian (came at age one) and
I think I have never before heard the flower called a
"Californian" poppy. British?
Yes. I know that Californians just call them poppies, but real poppies
(the sort you get opium from) are far more common in Europe, so we need
an adjective for those yellow things that grow in California.
We often call them California poppies because we have
other poppies - exotic and native, the Matilija poppy
might be best known. But never CaliforniaN.
You have driven me to check the nGrams. In American English "California
poppy" is overwhelmingly more frequent than "Californian poppy"; in
British English "Californian poppy" is somewhat more frequent than
"California poppy". So we're both right about our own dialects.
On the 1982 sheet of 50 different 20c stamps depicting each state's
official bird and flower, the California stamp (Scott #1957) labels it
the California Poppy, and the bird is the California Quail.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Gardeners sometimes call it Eschscholzia -- a challenging word to spell
and to pronounce: I have mostly heard it as isKOLsha [ɪs'kɔlʃə] -- but
also interesting as one of the few words in English with six consonants
in a row. Are there any others?
Is it really a word of English?

Neither the Wikiparticle on the flower nor that on its eponym offers a
pronunciation.
J. J. Lodder
2018-05-29 20:14:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first car I remember was called Flora, I think. The next one,
bought in about 1957, was called Poppy, because it was a Hillman
Californian. Later cars have not had names.
"because"?
Because the state flower of California is the Californian poppy. I
don't suppose that my parents knew that in 1957, but they'd certainly
encountered Californian poppies in gardens.
I'm an almost native Californian (came at age one) and
I think I have never before heard the flower called a
"Californian" poppy. British?
Yes. I know that Californians just call them poppies, but real poppies
(the sort you get opium from) are far more common in Europe, so we need
an adjective for those yellow things that grow in California.
We often call them California poppies because we have
other poppies - exotic and native, the Matilija poppy
might be best known. But never CaliforniaN.
You have driven me to check the nGrams. In American English "California
poppy" is overwhelmingly more frequent than "Californian poppy"; in
British English "Californian poppy" is somewhat more frequent than
"California poppy". So we're both right about our own dialects.
On the 1982 sheet of 50 different 20c stamps depicting each state's
official bird and flower, the California stamp (Scott #1957) labels it
the California Poppy, and the bird is the California Quail.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Gardeners sometimes call it Eschscholzia -- a challenging word to spell
and to pronounce: I have mostly heard it as isKOLsha [?s'k?l??] -- but
also interesting as one of the few words in English with six consonants
in a row. Are there any others?
Is it really a word of English?
Neither the Wikiparticle on the flower nor that on its eponym offers a
pronunciation.
Every Linnean genus or species name is a word in English,
(and any other language)

Jan

Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-05-29 19:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 29 May 2018 09:56:56 -0700 (PDT), David Kleinecke
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
The first car I remember was called Flora, I think. The next one,
bought in about 1957, was called Poppy, because it was a Hillman
Californian. Later cars have not had names.
"because"?
Because the state flower of California is the Californian poppy. I
don't suppose that my parents knew that in 1957, but they'd certainly
encountered Californian poppies in gardens.
I'm an almost native Californian (came at age one) and
I think I have never before heard the flower called a
"Californian" poppy. British?
Such poppies feature on the coat of arms created a few days ago for a
Californian, Meghan Markle, (aka Duchess of Sussex).

In the official announcement they are referred to as "golden poppies,
California's state flower".
https://www.royal.uk/her-royal-highness-duchess-sussex-coat-arms

https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/tradition/a20914806/meghan-markle-duchess-of-sussex-coat-of-arms-meaning/
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Paul Wolff
2018-05-29 09:16:22 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 29 May 2018 00:02:47 +0100, Paul Wolff
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by charles
Post by Paul Wolff
With similar water, I eventually bought and installed a water softener.
It's called Harvey.
Please tell the connection between a water softener and an imaginary rabbit.
Ah yes. I know I've heard of that imaginary rabbit, but never
cottoned on to its significance. When Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit? The
Curse of the Wer(e)-Rabbit? Flopsy, Mopsy, Cotton-tail and Harvey?
What's up, Doc? Probably none of the above.
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
It wasn't obvious to me.
Oh well. Why would a car be called Honda? Why would a beer be called
Budweiser? Why would a water softener be called Harvey? Though I can see
that Harvey's already being a personal name may cloud the issue.
Some people give their automobile a name. My Aunt Martha referred to
her Ford as "Betsy". Winter mornings she might have been heard to say
"I wonder if Betsy will start this morning".
I'd forgotten cars. Someone in my grandfather's household had kept an
Austin 7 car called Jessie. When I was a very small boy living there
post-war I only knew her replacement, who (sic) was called Jessie's
Sister.
--
Paul
Mark Brader
2018-05-26 05:16:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Wolff
Harvey is a brand name in England, if that's not obvious to anyone.
I didn't know it.

Someone upthread mentioned the drink called a Harvey Wallbanger.
There used to be a chain of inexpensive restaurants here in Toronto
called Harvey Wallbanger (or Wallbanger's, I forget), whose signs
I remember as proudly proclaiming:

SINCE 1978 -- A RETURN TO HONEST VALUE

The only photo I can find of one online does not show that sign:

Loading Image...

(And it also cuts off the lettering so you can't tell if there's a
small "'s" or not.)

The person who posted it thinks it was taken "circa 1973", so maybe
I'm wrong about the date in the slogan. (The streetcar marked CARLTON
rather than 506 only makes the photo earlier than 1980, and I'm not
sure exactly what years it was that mailboxes were those colors.)

It not related to Harvey's, a national fast-food chain.

Loading Image...


People who used to play in the Toronto Pub Trivia League tell me that
in their league, when a team plays shorthanded, it's customary for the
empty seat to be referred to as "Harvey", obviously in reference to
the invisible title character in that movie. We don't do that in the
Canadian Inquisition, but players do sometimes move from one league to
the other, so it produced occasional startlement when my team, the Usual
Suspects, added a player whose name actually was Harvey.


And that's what "Harvey" brings to my mind, although on further cogitation
I also think of Harvey Woods underwear, and Harvey Mudd College in the US.
--
Mark Brader | "As the old saying goes: those who learn history
Toronto | are doomed to watch others repeat it."
***@vex.net | --Peter Moylan

My text in this article is in the public domain.
HVS
2018-05-24 14:33:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in
the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater"
on the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
Some; the dishwasher uses a lot of dishwasher salts, but I'm not sure of the
detergent my wife uses.

In the case of shampoo, I think we've just got used to shampoos that aren't
particularly lathery.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
NYC regularly wins "best tap water in America" contests, because it's
piped from distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and
keeps uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so
lucky, but the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations for
local conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their product).
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
Tony Cooper
2018-05-24 16:08:57 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HVS
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in
the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater"
on the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
Some; the dishwasher uses a lot of dishwasher salts, but I'm not sure of the
detergent my wife uses.
In the case of shampoo, I think we've just got used to shampoos that aren't
particularly lathery.
We have a water softener because our well-water is very hard. When I
forget to buy and add salt, shampoo doesn't lather very much. My wife
complains that I should inform her when I do add salt after the tank
has run out for a few days. She over-uses shampoo and fills the
shower stall with suds if I don't inform here.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
HVS
2018-05-24 16:12:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by HVS
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants
in the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as
"rainwater" on the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather
in what must be extremely hard water?
Some; the dishwasher uses a lot of dishwasher salts, but I'm not sure
of the detergent my wife uses.
In the case of shampoo, I think we've just got used to shampoos that
aren't particularly lathery.
We have a water softener because our well-water is very hard. When I
forget to buy and add salt, shampoo doesn't lather very much. My wife
complains that I should inform her when I do add salt after the tank
has run out for a few days. She over-uses shampoo and fills the
shower stall with suds if I don't inform here.
I could get away with forgetting to tell my wife something like that.

Once.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
David Kleinecke
2018-05-24 19:51:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather in
what must be extremely hard water?
NYC regularly wins "best tap water in America" contests, because it's piped
from distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and keeps
uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so lucky, but
the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations for local
conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their product).
I'd like to see NYC's tap water compared with Honolulu's.

Of course, it all depends on what one means by "best". The
city water in Honolulu is rainwater that has flowed around
awhile in lava tubes (essentially glass pipes). It is close
to the theoretical lower limit for contaminants.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-05-25 03:16:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather in
what must be extremely hard water?
NYC regularly wins "best tap water in America" contests, because it's piped
from distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and keeps
uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so lucky, but
the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations for local
conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their product).
I'd like to see NYC's tap water compared with Honolulu's.
Of course, it all depends on what one means by "best". The
city water in Honolulu is rainwater that has flowed around
awhile in lava tubes (essentially glass pipes). It is close
to the theoretical lower limit for contaminants.
People usually report that drinking distilled water is unpleasant. Sounds
like that might be what they have.
David Kleinecke
2018-05-25 04:12:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to lather in
what must be extremely hard water?
NYC regularly wins "best tap water in America" contests, because it's piped
from distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and keeps
uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so lucky, but
the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations for local
conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their product).
I'd like to see NYC's tap water compared with Honolulu's.
Of course, it all depends on what one means by "best". The
city water in Honolulu is rainwater that has flowed around
awhile in lava tubes (essentially glass pipes). It is close
to the theoretical lower limit for contaminants.
People usually report that drinking distilled water is unpleasant. Sounds
like that might be what they have.
Around 90 parts per million if I recall correctly. A long
way from distilled. Water picks up that much contaminant
from pipes and other distribution apparatus.
J. J. Lodder
2018-05-25 08:13:25 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous
plants in the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water
as "rainwater" on the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to
lather in what must be extremely hard water? NYC regularly wins
"best tap water in America" contests, because it's piped from
distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and keeps
uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so
lucky, but the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations
for local conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their
product).
I'd like to see NYC's tap water compared with Honolulu's.
Of course, it all depends on what one means by "best". The
city water in Honolulu is rainwater that has flowed around
awhile in lava tubes (essentially glass pipes). It is close
to the theoretical lower limit for contaminants.
People usually report that drinking distilled water is unpleasant. Sounds
like that might be what they have.
Around 90 parts per million if I recall correctly. A long
way from distilled. Water picks up that much contaminant
from pipes and other distribution apparatus.
A chemist friend tells me that really pure water
is the most corrosive liquid know to mankind,

Jan
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-25 08:38:58 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous
plants in the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water
as "rainwater" on the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to
lather in what must be extremely hard water? NYC regularly wins
"best tap water in America" contests, because it's piped from
distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and keeps
uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so
lucky, but the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations
for local conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their
product).
I'd like to see NYC's tap water compared with Honolulu's.
Of course, it all depends on what one means by "best". The
city water in Honolulu is rainwater that has flowed around
awhile in lava tubes (essentially glass pipes). It is close
to the theoretical lower limit for contaminants.
People usually report that drinking distilled water is unpleasant. Sounds
like that might be what they have.
Around 90 parts per million if I recall correctly. A long
way from distilled. Water picks up that much contaminant
from pipes and other distribution apparatus.
A chemist friend tells me that really pure water
is the most corrosive liquid know to mankind,
I don't think I believe that. What is your friend's evidence?
--
athel
J. J. Lodder
2018-05-25 10:16:09 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous
plants in the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water
as "rainwater" on the grounds that it all started as such.
Do you have special soaps and detergents that are formulated to
lather in what must be extremely hard water? NYC regularly wins
"best tap water in America" contests, because it's piped from
distant reservoirs in the Catskills, and the city owns and keeps
uninhabited vast acreage around them. But many cities aren't so
lucky, but the soap companies don't seem to alter their formulations
for local conditions (as the gasoline companies do with their
product).
I'd like to see NYC's tap water compared with Honolulu's.
Of course, it all depends on what one means by "best". The
city water in Honolulu is rainwater that has flowed around
awhile in lava tubes (essentially glass pipes). It is close
to the theoretical lower limit for contaminants.
People usually report that drinking distilled water is unpleasant. Sounds
like that might be what they have.
Around 90 parts per million if I recall correctly. A long
way from distilled. Water picks up that much contaminant
from pipes and other distribution apparatus.
A chemist friend tells me that really pure water
is the most corrosive liquid know to mankind,
I don't think I believe that. What is your friend's evidence?
That it is very hard to make ultrapure water,
and to keep it ultrapure.
It will be contaminated by almost anything it comes in contact with.
Wikip has a long article about it,
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrapure_water>

Jan
Richard Tobin
2018-05-25 10:24:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
A chemist friend tells me that really pure water
is the most corrosive liquid know to mankind,
I don't think I believe that. What is your friend's evidence?
That it is very hard to make ultrapure water,
and to keep it ultrapure.
It will be contaminated by almost anything it comes in contact with.
How does any of that make it corrosive?

-- Richard
Jerry Friedman
2018-05-25 14:53:49 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
A chemist friend tells me that really pure water
is the most corrosive liquid know to mankind,
I don't think I believe that. What is your friend's evidence?
That it is very hard to make ultrapure water,
and to keep it ultrapure.
It will be contaminated by almost anything it comes in contact with.
How does any of that make it corrosive?
And how would it compare with ultrapure H2SO4? (Oil of vitriol, I
believe it was once called.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Paul Wolff
2018-05-28 23:10:47 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
A chemist friend tells me that really pure water
is the most corrosive liquid know to mankind,
I don't think I believe that. What is your friend's evidence?
That it is very hard to make ultrapure water,
and to keep it ultrapure.
It will be contaminated by almost anything it comes in contact with.
How does any of that make it corrosive?
And how would it compare with ultrapure H2SO4? (Oil of vitriol, I
believe it was once called.)
We could debate 'corrosive' in opposition to 'reactive'.

I have a memory that says dilute sulfuric acid (though to be an honest
memory, that would have to be sulphuric acid) is more corrosive than the
pure oily stuff, because the former has a load more active hydrogen ions
(or H3O+, or whatever is now the conventional representation) than the
latter.
--
Paul
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-29 06:12:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
A chemist friend tells me that really pure water
is the most corrosive liquid know to mankind,
I don't think I believe that. What is your friend's evidence?
That it is very hard to make ultrapure water,
and to keep it ultrapure.
It will be contaminated by almost anything it comes in contact with.
How does any of that make it corrosive?
And how would it compare with ultrapure H2SO4? (Oil of vitriol, I
believe it was once called.)
We could debate 'corrosive' in opposition to 'reactive'.
I have a memory that says dilute sulfuric acid (though to be an honest
memory, that would have to be sulphuric acid) is more corrosive than
the pure oily stuff, because the former has a load more active hydrogen
ions (or H3O+, or whatever is now the conventional representation) than
the latter.
My memory says that also applies to HCl: the lowest pH that can be
achieved with everyday ingredients is about -0.3, and you get it with
2M HCl ("dilute HCl"); concentrated HCl has a higher pH.
--
athel
Cheryl
2018-05-26 09:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
A chemist friend tells me that really pure water
is the most corrosive liquid know to mankind,
I don't think I believe that. What is your friend's evidence?
That it is very hard to make ultrapure water,
and to keep it ultrapure.
It will be contaminated by almost anything it comes in contact with.
How does any of that make it corrosive?
Water will leach contaminants from any container, which is, in a way,
being corrosive.

I once had a summer job that involved collecting water samples for a
study, and the efforts to which I had to go to ensure that the bottles
were prepared in such a way as to minimize this effect were truly tedious.
--
Cheryl
J. J. Lodder
2018-05-26 10:01:38 UTC
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Post by Richard Tobin
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
A chemist friend tells me that really pure water
is the most corrosive liquid know to mankind,
I don't think I believe that. What is your friend's evidence?
That it is very hard to make ultrapure water,
and to keep it ultrapure.
It will be contaminated by almost anything it comes in contact with.
How does any of that make it corrosive?
It takes contamination from any container it is put in.
So the container is corroded, a bit,

Jan
Richard Tobin
2018-05-26 10:17:10 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
A chemist friend tells me that really pure water
is the most corrosive liquid know to mankind,
I don't think I believe that. What is your friend's evidence?
That it is very hard to make ultrapure water,
and to keep it ultrapure.
It will be contaminated by almost anything it comes in contact with.
How does any of that make it corrosive?
It takes contamination from any container it is put in.
So the container is corroded, a bit,
Yes, all water is somewhat corrosive. But nothing in what you
referred to supports your friend's claim that ultrapure water is
particularly bad. Would you rather drink ultrapure water or
sulpuric acid?

-- Richard
Richard Yates
2018-05-26 14:03:31 UTC
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Post by Richard Tobin
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
A chemist friend tells me that really pure water
is the most corrosive liquid know to mankind,
I don't think I believe that. What is your friend's evidence?
That it is very hard to make ultrapure water,
and to keep it ultrapure.
It will be contaminated by almost anything it comes in contact with.
How does any of that make it corrosive?
It takes contamination from any container it is put in.
So the container is corroded, a bit,
Yes, all water is somewhat corrosive. But nothing in what you
referred to supports your friend's claim that ultrapure water is
particularly bad. Would you rather drink ultrapure water or
sulpuric acid?
shaken or stirred?
Kerr-Mudd,John
2018-05-25 10:38:47 UTC
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[]
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
A chemist friend tells me that really pure water
is the most corrosive liquid know to mankind,
I don't think I believe that. What is your friend's evidence?
That it is very hard to make ultrapure water,
and to keep it ultrapure.
It will be contaminated by almost anything it comes in contact with.
Wikip has a long article about it,
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrapure_water>
I couldn't find corrosive in there; other than about impurities that can
cause trouble.

Pshurely that's very dangerous homeopathic material!
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Jerry Friedman
2018-05-25 14:52:26 UTC
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Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
[]
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
A chemist friend tells me that really pure water
is the most corrosive liquid know to mankind,
I don't think I believe that. What is your friend's evidence?
That it is very hard to make ultrapure water,
and to keep it ultrapure.
It will be contaminated by almost anything it comes in contact with.
Wikip has a long article about it,
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrapure_water>
I couldn't find corrosive in there; other than about impurities that can
cause trouble.
Pshurely that's very dangerous homeopathic material!
Hm. Has anyone ever tried to poison a homeopath by giving them a very,
very tiny amount of a vitamin?
--
Jerry Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-05-24 13:30:27 UTC
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Post by HVS
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by HVS
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
Seen for the first time in coverage of the Kilauea eruption, phreatic.
"Phreatic -- relating to or denoting underground water in the
of
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Horace LaBadie
saturation (beneath the water table).
(of a volcanic eruption) caused by the heating and expansion of
groundwater."
I never heard the word before coming to France, but here they
often of the nappe phréatique on the news.
From Greek "phrear", a well.
The reason you find it in France is no doubt
that it is not raining there all the time, like in England,
Actually it rains less (less often, and in smaller quantities) than
people think. It just looks as if it might rain a lot of the time. It
may have changed with global warning, etc., but at the time the
statistics in Concise Oxford Atlas (2nd edn. 1958) were compiled the
wettest month of the year in London (October, 2.5 inches) was
reported to be drier than the driest month of the year in New York
(January, 3.3 inches). If you want to find a major city where there
is no rain at all you need to go to Lima. However, for six months of
the year it looks as if it might rain.
In the 1990s I made regular visits of 2-3 days to London two or three
times a year, and I only remember one with significant rain.
Post by J. J. Lodder
so harvesting ground water from wells or sources
really is very important to at least some of them.
Pretty silly to think that "England" relies on rain/run-off sources of
water rather than wells, as it depends entirely on what part of
England you're talking about.
Parts of the north have run-off reservoirs, but one look at the limescale
build-up on kettles in these parts -- south of London; main water
sources artesian wells in a chalk-based landscape -- tells you we
ain't drinkin' no rainwater.
With the very notable exception of London, I think most of the big
cities in England do drink rainwater, even if they need to steal it
from the Welsh.
Most water is rainwater, isn't it?
Indeed -- but when speaking of water for human use, there's a useful
distinction to be made between rainwater/run-off (rivers, lakes,
reservoirs) and groundwater (extraction from below ground), even though
groundwater inevitably started life as rainwater.
Post by Paul Wolff
There's a diagram at the URL given
below which shows how rainwater hydrates this village after slow
filtration through the chalk downs until it hits the Upper Greensand and
oozes out in the many village springs - several oozy trickles can be
found in my garden. I think the residence time in the chalk is about 30
years. The graph showing the well level at Plentys refers to the indoor
well in the house three doors up the road from me.
<https://www.sustainable-blewbury.org.uk/water.htm>
Prezackly. In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
How do you manage to grow them at all? Do you have them insulated from
the surrounding soil by a waterproof shield?

You can tell how much I know about horticulture from the fact that I
referred to the oleanders that grow abundantly around here as
rhododendrons until I was corrected by my granddaughter, then less than
three years old. She was very keen on oleanders, and, at least in
theory, I knew perfectly well that rhododendrons wouldn't grow on
limestone soil.
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2018-05-24 13:55:35 UTC
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Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
Post by HVS
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
How do you manage to grow them at all? Do you have them insulated from
the surrounding soil by a waterproof shield?
You can tell how much I know about horticulture from the fact that I
referred to the oleanders that grow abundantly around here as
rhododendrons until I was corrected by my granddaughter, then less than
three years old. She was very keen on oleanders, and, at least in
theory, I knew perfectly well that rhododendrons wouldn't grow on
limestone soil.
"You cannot grow rhododendrons in a Chalk Garden." The one line I remember
from our high school production of *The Chalk Garden*. I played the elderly
judge. The movie version was on TV the night before our performance, and we
asked Mrs. Whedon whether we should watch it. She said it wouldn't do any
harm. I was portrayed by Maurice Evans.

I believe both rhododendrons and oleanders are poisonous.

FLlW's Fallingwater is in the midst of a rhododendron forest. He liked
their being evergreens.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-05-24 15:07:06 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
Post by HVS
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
How do you manage to grow them at all? Do you have them insulated from
the surrounding soil by a waterproof shield?
You can tell how much I know about horticulture from the fact that I
referred to the oleanders that grow abundantly around here as
rhododendrons until I was corrected by my granddaughter, then less than
three years old. She was very keen on oleanders, and, at least in
theory, I knew perfectly well that rhododendrons wouldn't grow on
limestone soil.
"You cannot grow rhododendrons in a Chalk Garden." The one line I remember
from our high school production of *The Chalk Garden*. I played the elderly
judge. The movie version was on TV the night before our performance, and we
asked Mrs. Whedon whether we should watch it. She said it wouldn't do any
harm. I was portrayed by Maurice Evans.
I believe both rhododendrons and oleanders are poisonous.
Oleanders are and may also cause rashes by contact. Rhoddies and their
cousins azaleas are not on the toxic plants list though.
Jerry Friedman
2018-05-25 15:00:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
Post by HVS
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
How do you manage to grow them at all? Do you have them insulated from
the surrounding soil by a waterproof shield?
You can tell how much I know about horticulture from the fact that I
referred to the oleanders that grow abundantly around here as
rhododendrons until I was corrected by my granddaughter, then less than
three years old. She was very keen on oleanders, and, at least in
theory, I knew perfectly well that rhododendrons wouldn't grow on
limestone soil.
That's the oldest meaning of "rhododendron". The last citation in the
OEd is from 1716.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"You cannot grow rhododendrons in a Chalk Garden." The one line I remember
from our high school production of *The Chalk Garden*. I played the elderly
judge. The movie version was on TV the night before our performance, and we
asked Mrs. Whedon whether we should watch it. She said it wouldn't do any
harm. I was portrayed by Maurice Evans.
I believe both rhododendrons and oleanders are poisonous.
Oleanders are and may also cause rashes by contact. Rhoddies
Typo, or do you really rhyme it with "toddies"? I've heard the nickname
pronounced as a homonym for the employees of a rock band who set up its
equipment.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
and their
cousins azaleas are not on the toxic plants list though.
"The" toxic plant list? They're on many of those lists, including this one:

http://ucanr.edu/sites/poisonous_safe_plants/Toxic_Plants_by_Scientific_Name_685/
--
Jerry Friedman
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-05-25 15:25:00 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by HVS
In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water supply
Post by HVS
relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous plants in the
garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as "rainwater" on the
grounds that it all started as such.
How do you manage to grow them at all? Do you have them insulated from
the surrounding soil by a waterproof shield?
You can tell how much I know about horticulture from the fact that I
referred to the oleanders that grow abundantly around here as
rhododendrons until I was corrected by my granddaughter, then less than
three years old. She was very keen on oleanders, and, at least in
theory, I knew perfectly well that rhododendrons wouldn't grow on
limestone soil.
That's the oldest meaning of "rhododendron". The last citation in the
OEd is from 1716.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"You cannot grow rhododendrons in a Chalk Garden." The one line I remember
from our high school production of *The Chalk Garden*. I played the elderly
judge. The movie version was on TV the night before our performance, and we
asked Mrs. Whedon whether we should watch it. She said it wouldn't do any
harm. I was portrayed by Maurice Evans.
I believe both rhododendrons and oleanders are poisonous.
Oleanders are and may also cause rashes by contact. Rhoddies
Typo, or do you really rhyme it with "toddies"?
The nickname as I picked it up from my neighbours in Scotland is so
rhymed, yes.
Jerry Friedman
2018-05-25 17:00:36 UTC
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...
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
I believe both rhododendrons and oleanders are poisonous.
Oleanders are and may also cause rashes by contact. Rhoddies
Typo, or do you really rhyme it with "toddies"?
The nickname as I picked it up from my neighbours in Scotland is so
rhymed, yes.
Thanks. A.u.e. is full of surprises.
--
Jerry Friedman
HVS
2018-05-24 14:31:07 UTC
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Raw Message
-snip-
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by HVS
Prezackly. In this part of the country (north Hampshire), the water
supply relies heavily on aquifers in chalk downs, and the ericaceous
plants in the garden wouldn't thank me for classifying all water as
"rainwater" on the grounds that it all started as such.
How do you manage to grow them at all? Do you have them insulated from
the surrounding soil by a waterproof shield?
Almost always in pots, alas.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
You can tell how much I know about horticulture from the fact that I
referred to the oleanders that grow abundantly around here as
rhododendrons until I was corrected by my granddaughter, then less than
three years old. She was very keen on oleanders, and, at least in
theory, I knew perfectly well that rhododendrons wouldn't grow on
limestone soil.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30yrs) and BrEng (34yrs), indiscriminately mixed
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