On 2018-05-12 14:23:52 +0000, Peter T. Daniels said:
> On Saturday, May 12, 2018 at 2:37:37 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>> On 2018-05-11 12:46:47 +0000, Peter T. Daniels said:
>>> On Friday, May 11, 2018 at 2:15:36 AM UTC-4, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
>>>> On 2018-05-10 22:23:38 +0000, Quinn C said:
>>>>> I had to take a course at my company that included listening to a
>>>>> recorded speaker, presumably a professional. After a few repetitions,
>>>>> the talk of "eelectronic records" etc. got on my nerves.
>>>>> To my surprise, my preferred pronunciation, with an /E/ at the
>>>>> beginning, isn't even an option in most US dictionaries. I have no
>>>>> issue with /I/, which I hear regularly. /i:/ is listed by some
>>>>> dictionaries but not others.
>>>>> In this specific case, it might be a misinterpretation of her accent by
>>>>> me, as I also heard her say "eessential". And it may only be her,
>>>>> somewhat artificial, professional reading voice. Some other words were
>>>>> strangely over-articulated at the end.
>>>> I think of that (possibly quite wrongly) as a Black American way of>>
>>>> >> speaking, as with ['pəʊ̯lɪjs] (POE-lease) for "police".
>>> Most African American ("Black American": how quaint!
>> Why "quaint"?
> Because it's not an extant term. It sounds like something a racist
> tryingto sound non-racist might come up with -- like LBJ's "nigra." He
> grew upsaying "nigger" and tempered it a bit.
>> With all the different terminological fashions that have> succeeded one
>> another in my lifetime: Negro, Coloured, Black, African> American, what
>> next? Who can keep up? And, if they're not living there,> who cares?
>> Moreover, many Africans are not black: I know lots who are> barely
>> blacker than I am, and I'm not thinking of South Africans> (though I
>> know some of them as well); none of them would be called> African
>> American if they became American (I know one in Kansas who is> well on
>> her way to doing just that), though they're a lot more African> than
>> those that are so-called.
>> I read reports of people being arrested for driving while black or>
>> similar offences: should they be reported as driving while>
> You're turning into Heathfield. Not a Good Thing.
> And not a word about the point of my message.
No, because I got sidetracked by "quaint".
>>> ) phonetic patternsare widely shared by other ethnic communities> >
>>> throughout the South. Onthe radio or telephone, a Northerner might> >
>>> wrongly assume a speaker is black.
Maybe, but the only time I ever heard ['pəʊ̯lɪjs] (POE-lease) spoken in
real life was in a lift in a not very salubrious hotel in Chicago
(about a block from the Convention Centre, but it was a block in which
a great deal changed over a short distance). It was spoken by an
African American, to use your preferred term, and I wrongly (perhaps)
jumped too readily to the conclusion that it was a typical
African-American way of pronouncing "police". Actually I think I read
later that Steven Pinker used this very example to illustrate his
argument that "non-standard" pronunciations should not be regarded as
sloppy or lazy.
>>> Both the movie (Rod Steiger) and the TV (Carroll O'Connor) versions> >
>>> of*In the Heat of the Night* provide credible examples of Poor> >
>>> Whitedialect contrasted with that of a northern black man (Sidney> >
>>> Poitier,Howard Rollins).
>>> I don't remember whether there are black characters in *Cool Hand> >
>>> Luke*,but you might recall Strother Martin's iconic line "What we have>
>>> > here isfailure to communicate." Hmm, interesting discussion of the
>>> line> > here:
>>> Quite likely indistinguishable from black speech of the area. (The> >
>>> northerninner cities began to be settled by black people escaping the>
>>> > Mississippifloods in the 1920s, which helps explain the uniformite
>>> of> > African AmericanVernacular English throughout the urban North.
>>> Regional> > black accents are nowdeveloping in the cities that had had
>>> distinctive> > speechways when they arrived.)
>>> The two regions had different patterns of segregation through the
>>> first> > twothirds of the 20th century: in the South, be as close as
>>> you want,> > but don'trise in social station (with the 400 year history
>>> of domestic> > slavery); inthe North, rise as high as you want but
>>> don't associate> > with us (which ledto thriving commercial districts
>>> and successful> > businesses in the blackneighborhoods, which began to
>>> fail when> > integration was promoted and AfricanAmericans chose to
>>> shop in the> > bigger stores whose clientele had previouslyonly been
>>> I don't remember where I first read about that, but it was obviously> >
>>> inprogress when I came to Chicago in 1972. Any number of South Side> >
>>> businessdistricts were going under as their customers no longer _had_>
>>> > to shop there,and the reason didn't seem to be recognized by the> >
>>> politicians or the community
>>> activists. (Also there had been devastating riots on the West Side in>
>>> > 1967-68,abd 20 years later the neighborhoods had not recovered.)