Discussion:
Union Station, Toronto, has over 2,000 'rights of way'
(too old to reply)
Dingbat
2017-04-16 12:09:43 UTC
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What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?

<<Located in Toronto, Union has more than 2,000 rights of way, making it one of the most complex stations in the world.>>
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featureworlds-busiest-train-stations
Don Phillipson
2017-04-16 12:24:54 UTC
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Post by Dingbat
What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?
<<Located in Toronto, Union has more than 2,000 rights of way, making it
one
of the most complex stations in the world.>>
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featureworlds-busiest-train-stations
1. Formally, "right of way" is a term of English law meaning a route
(from A to D, passing through B and C en route.) We usually encounter
this in public rights of way across privately-owned land (cf. ancient
charters granting a field to Lord X on condition that he allow the
local villagers to cross this field to get to the other side. Modern
land law concerning an isolated parcel of land often include a
right of way across someone else's land, so the owner can travel
from the public highway to his own land.)

2. As used here, concerning a railroad station, "right of way"
probably means you may travel from Toronto Union station to
any of 2000 different destinations. This is a nonstandard usage.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Charles Bishop
2017-04-16 14:05:17 UTC
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Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Dingbat
What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?
<<Located in Toronto, Union has more than 2,000 rights of way, making it
one
of the most complex stations in the world.>>
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featureworlds-busiest-train-stati
ons
1. Formally, "right of way" is a term of English law meaning a route
(from A to D, passing through B and C en route.) We usually encounter
this in public rights of way across privately-owned land (cf. ancient
charters granting a field to Lord X on condition that he allow the
local villagers to cross this field to get to the other side. Modern
land law concerning an isolated parcel of land often include a
right of way across someone else's land, so the owner can travel
from the public highway to his own land.)
2. As used here, concerning a railroad station, "right of way"
probably means you may travel from Toronto Union station to
any of 2000 different destinations. This is a nonstandard usage.
Doesn't "right of way" for a railroad indicate that the railroad itself
has the right to use its tracks? It has a "right of way".
--
charles
Don Phillipson
2017-04-16 16:01:47 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Doesn't "right of way" for a railroad indicate that the railroad itself
has the right to use its tracks? It has a "right of way".
Not usually (suggests my small knowledge of railroads:) but when
RR ABC owns tracks but RR XYZ can run its trains on ABC's
tracks I think railroaders say XYZ has a right of way on ABC. This
is nonidentical with your right to run trains on the tracks you own.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Peter Young
2017-04-16 17:13:49 UTC
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Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Charles Bishop
Doesn't "right of way" for a railroad indicate that the railroad itself
has the right to use its tracks? It has a "right of way".
Not usually (suggests my small knowledge of railroads:) but when
RR ABC owns tracks but RR XYZ can run its trains on ABC's
tracks I think railroaders say XYZ has a right of way on ABC. This
is nonidentical with your right to run trains on the tracks you own.
In BrE these are "running rights".

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Ir)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Mark Brader
2017-04-16 18:20:20 UTC
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Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Dingbat
<<Located in Toronto, Union has more than 2,000 rights of way, making it
one of the most complex stations in the world.>>
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featureworlds-busiest-train-stations
2. As used here, concerning a railroad station, "right of way"
probably means you may travel from Toronto Union station to
any of 2000 different destinations. This is a nonstandard usage.
Nope. First, that has nothing to do with the complexity of the
station. Second, I'm not going to count exactly how many VIA Rail
stations are served by trains from Toronto, but VIA only has about
500 stations in the whole country, so it's probably no more than
100 to 150. The whole GO Train system plus the one route each from
Toronto for Amtrak and the Union Pearson Express add well under 100
more destinations.

Of course connections to other routes are possible, but again, that
has nothing to do with Toronto Union Station.
Post by Charles Bishop
Doesn't "right of way" for a railroad indicate that the railroad itself
has the right to use its tracks? It has a "right of way".
Yes, but "right of way" in that usage normally means the strip of
land containing a whole set of parallel tracks. By that standard,
Union Station has *one* right of way.

I'm a railfan and I have no idea of what the writer of that article
was intending to say. I wonder if it might be intended to refer to
the number of different routes that a train can take through the
station by switching tracks. There are 12 through tracks in the
station, 2 through bypass tracks south of the station, and I think
one new dead-end track for the UP Express, and multiple places where
trains have flexibility from one to another track:

Loading Image...

Or I wonder if it might have to do with routes passengers can follow
as they walk to or from the platforms.

But I've never heard "right of way" used with either of those meanings.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "One thing that surprises you about this business
***@vex.net | is the surprises." -- Tim Baker

My text in this article is in the public domain.
John Varela
2017-04-16 19:37:26 UTC
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On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:24:54 UTC, "Don Phillipson"
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Dingbat
What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?
<<Located in Toronto, Union has more than 2,000 rights of way, making it
one
of the most complex stations in the world.>>
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featureworlds-busiest-train-stations
1. Formally, "right of way" is a term of English law meaning a route
(from A to D, passing through B and C en route.) We usually encounter
this in public rights of way across privately-owned land (cf. ancient
charters granting a field to Lord X on condition that he allow the
local villagers to cross this field to get to the other side. Modern
land law concerning an isolated parcel of land often include a
right of way across someone else's land, so the owner can travel
from the public highway to his own land.)
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
Post by Don Phillipson
2. As used here, concerning a railroad station, "right of way"
probably means you may travel from Toronto Union station to
any of 2000 different destinations. This is a nonstandard usage.
That's an awful lot of passenger destinations for a railroad in this
day & age.
--
John Varela
Don Phillipson
2017-04-16 21:58:24 UTC
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Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
This will vary with local traditions and legal precedent.
In Ontario (Canada) the electric company trims only trees
on public land (mostly highway allowances): private landowners
are responsible for keeping their own trees clear of the
overhead lines on their property. (My hydro lines are buried --
less trouble in the long run.)
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
Sam Plusnet
2017-04-17 19:45:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
This will vary with local traditions and legal precedent.
In Ontario (Canada) the electric company trims only trees
on public land (mostly highway allowances): private landowners
are responsible for keeping their own trees clear of the
overhead lines on their property. (My hydro lines are buried --
less trouble in the long run.)
Is the word "hydro" (as a reference to electrical power) used anywhere
outside Canada?
--
Sam Plusnet
Cheryl
2017-04-17 19:48:17 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
This will vary with local traditions and legal precedent.
In Ontario (Canada) the electric company trims only trees
on public land (mostly highway allowances): private landowners
are responsible for keeping their own trees clear of the
overhead lines on their property. (My hydro lines are buried --
less trouble in the long run.)
Is the word "hydro" (as a reference to electrical power) used anywhere
outside Canada?
It's really only used in certain parts of Canada - Ontario, for sure.
Maybe other provinces, too. Most electrical power in my province comes
from hydroelectric developments, but we call it "light and power" from
the former name of the company that distributed it. I think that's where
"hydro" came from - the name of another province's company.
--
Cheryl
Peter Young
2017-04-17 20:29:05 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
This will vary with local traditions and legal precedent.
In Ontario (Canada) the electric company trims only trees
on public land (mostly highway allowances): private landowners
are responsible for keeping their own trees clear of the
overhead lines on their property. (My hydro lines are buried --
less trouble in the long run.)
Is the word "hydro" (as a reference to electrical power) used anywhere
outside Canada?
As long as Scotland is not in Canada (it wasn't when I last looked),
yes.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Ir)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
charles
2017-04-17 21:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
This will vary with local traditions and legal precedent.
In Ontario (Canada) the electric company trims only trees
on public land (mostly highway allowances): private landowners
are responsible for keeping their own trees clear of the
overhead lines on their property. (My hydro lines are buried --
less trouble in the long run.)
Is the word "hydro" (as a reference to electrical power) used anywhere
outside Canada?
As long as Scotland is not in Canada (it wasn't when I last looked),
yes.
to expand Peter's reply. The electricity supplier in the north of scotland
was The Hydro Electicty Board - locally know as "the Hydro".
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
Mark Brader
2017-04-17 23:20:28 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by charles
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Is the word "hydro" (as a reference to electrical power) used anywhere
outside Canada?
As long as Scotland is not in Canada (it wasn't when I last looked),
yes.
to expand Peter's reply. The electricity supplier in the north of scotland
was The Hydro Electicty Board
I guess they ran out of letters for their sign, then.

Loading Image...
Post by charles
- locally know as "the Hydro".
But would you say "the hydro was off because a car crashed into a hydro
pole, not because we didn't pay the hydro bill", as we might here?
--
Mark Brader | "Basically, what I *really* want is the USENET of the 1980s
Toronto | without the high long-distance telephone bills."
***@vex.net | --Wayne Brown

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Charles Bishop
2017-04-17 23:58:42 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by charles
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
This will vary with local traditions and legal precedent.
In Ontario (Canada) the electric company trims only trees
on public land (mostly highway allowances): private landowners
are responsible for keeping their own trees clear of the
overhead lines on their property. (My hydro lines are buried --
less trouble in the long run.)
Is the word "hydro" (as a reference to electrical power) used anywhere
outside Canada?
As long as Scotland is not in Canada (it wasn't when I last looked),
yes.
to expand Peter's reply. The electricity supplier in the north of scotland
was The Hydro Electicty Board - locally know as "the Hydro".
But is "electricity" (supplied) called "hydro"?
--
charles, e-quiring minds
Mack A. Damia
2017-04-18 00:01:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 16:58:42 -0700, Charles Bishop
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by charles
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
This will vary with local traditions and legal precedent.
In Ontario (Canada) the electric company trims only trees
on public land (mostly highway allowances): private landowners
are responsible for keeping their own trees clear of the
overhead lines on their property. (My hydro lines are buried --
less trouble in the long run.)
Is the word "hydro" (as a reference to electrical power) used anywhere
outside Canada?
As long as Scotland is not in Canada (it wasn't when I last looked),
yes.
to expand Peter's reply. The electricity supplier in the north of scotland
was The Hydro Electicty Board - locally know as "the Hydro".
But is "electricity" (supplied) called "hydro"?
Is electricity fungible?
Quinn C
2017-04-18 17:39:37 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
This will vary with local traditions and legal precedent.
In Ontario (Canada) the electric company trims only trees
on public land (mostly highway allowances): private landowners
are responsible for keeping their own trees clear of the
overhead lines on their property. (My hydro lines are buried --
less trouble in the long run.)
Is the word "hydro" (as a reference to electrical power) used anywhere
outside Canada?
As long as Scotland is not in Canada (it wasn't when I last looked),
yes.
Keep looking.

<http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39510351>
--
It gets hot in Raleigh, but Texas! I don't know why anybody
lives here, honestly.
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.220
Peter Young
2017-04-18 20:51:42 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
This will vary with local traditions and legal precedent.
In Ontario (Canada) the electric company trims only trees
on public land (mostly highway allowances): private landowners
are responsible for keeping their own trees clear of the
overhead lines on their property. (My hydro lines are buried --
less trouble in the long run.)
Is the word "hydro" (as a reference to electrical power) used anywhere
outside Canada?
As long as Scotland is not in Canada (it wasn't when I last looked),
yes.
Keep looking.
<http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39510351>
Interesting (as in "interesting times".

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Ir)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Janet
2017-04-17 23:03:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
This will vary with local traditions and legal precedent.
In Ontario (Canada) the electric company trims only trees
on public land (mostly highway allowances): private landowners
are responsible for keeping their own trees clear of the
overhead lines on their property. (My hydro lines are buried --
less trouble in the long run.)
Is the word "hydro" (as a reference to electrical power) used anywhere
outside Canada?
In Scotland the company that supplies power to my house used to be
called Scottish Hydro. Since a merger its name has changed, but
colloquially it;'s still known as the hydro.

Janet
Sam Plusnet
2017-04-18 20:45:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Janet
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
This will vary with local traditions and legal precedent.
In Ontario (Canada) the electric company trims only trees
on public land (mostly highway allowances): private landowners
are responsible for keeping their own trees clear of the
overhead lines on their property. (My hydro lines are buried --
less trouble in the long run.)
Is the word "hydro" (as a reference to electrical power) used anywhere
outside Canada?
In Scotland the company that supplies power to my house used to be
called Scottish Hydro. Since a merger its name has changed, but
colloquially it;'s still known as the hydro.
So "Hydro" can refer to the supplier, does it also refer to the product?

"Get a torch. The Hydro's gone off!"
--
Sam Plusnet
Reinhold {Rey} Aman
2017-04-18 21:18:56 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by Sam Plusnet
The Hydro's gone off!"
Gone off, gone off. That sounds woody.
--
~~~ Reinhold {Rey} Aman ~~~
Richard Bollard
2017-04-20 05:52:48 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:18:56 -0700, Reinhold {Rey} Aman
Post by Reinhold {Rey} Aman
Post by Sam Plusnet
The Hydro's gone off!"
Gone off, gone off. That sounds woody.
The fucking fucker's fucked is, by contrast, awfully tinny.
--
Richard Bollard
Canberra Australia

To email, I'm at AMT not spAMT.
Peter Moylan
2017-04-17 23:27:03 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
This will vary with local traditions and legal precedent.
In Ontario (Canada) the electric company trims only trees
on public land (mostly highway allowances): private landowners
are responsible for keeping their own trees clear of the
overhead lines on their property. (My hydro lines are buried --
less trouble in the long run.)
Is the word "hydro" (as a reference to electrical power) used anywhere
outside Canada?
The word is found in Australia, but only as part of a larger phrase,
e.g. "hydro power station". "Hydro" tout court has no useful meaning
here, except as an abbreviation for hydroelectric.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
HVS
2017-04-17 11:08:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by John Varela
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:24:54 UTC, "Don Phillipson"
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Dingbat
What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?
<<Located in Toronto, Union has more than 2,000 rights of way, making it
one
of the most complex stations in the world.>>
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featureworlds-busiest-train-
stations
Post by John Varela
Post by Don Phillipson
1. Formally, "right of way" is a term of English law meaning a route
(from A to D, passing through B and C en route.) We usually
encounter
Post by John Varela
Post by Don Phillipson
this in public rights of way across privately-owned land (cf. ancient
charters granting a field to Lord X on condition that he allow the
local villagers to cross this field to get to the other side.
Modern
Post by John Varela
Post by Don Phillipson
land law concerning an isolated parcel of land often include a
right of way across someone else's land, so the owner can travel
from the public highway to his own land.)
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
I've encountered the term "way-leave" for utility rights-of-way in
England,which makes me suspect that "right-of-way" refers to the
movement of people or goods rather than infrastructure (drains, water
or fuel pipes, electricity cables).
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanE (30 years) & BrE (34 years),
indiscriminately mixed
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-04-17 11:58:56 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dingbat
Post by John Varela
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:24:54 UTC, "Don Phillipson"
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Dingbat
What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?
<<Located in Toronto, Union has more than 2,000 rights of way,
making it
Post by John Varela
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Dingbat
one
of the most complex stations in the world.>>
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featureworlds-busiest-train-
stations
Post by John Varela
Post by Don Phillipson
1. Formally, "right of way" is a term of English law meaning a
route
Post by John Varela
Post by Don Phillipson
(from A to D, passing through B and C en route.) We usually
encounter
Post by John Varela
Post by Don Phillipson
this in public rights of way across privately-owned land (cf.
ancient
Post by John Varela
Post by Don Phillipson
charters granting a field to Lord X on condition that he allow the
local villagers to cross this field to get to the other side.
Modern
Post by John Varela
Post by Don Phillipson
land law concerning an isolated parcel of land often include a
right of way across someone else's land, so the owner can travel
from the public highway to his own land.)
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
I've encountered the term "way-leave" for utility rights-of-way in
England,which makes me suspect that "right-of-way" refers to the
movement of people or goods rather than infrastructure (drains, water
or fuel pipes, electricity cables).
Yes. "leave" means "permission" as in for instance "leave" short for
"leave of absence", permission to be absent.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/way_leave

way leave
noun

A right of way granted by a landowner, generally in exchange for
payment and typically for purposes such as the erection of telegraph
wires or laying of pipes.
‘companies must have way leaves for work they want to carry out
on private land’

Those who negotiate and arrange wayleaves are known as "wayleave
officers".

A UK property company:
http://www.savills.co.uk/careers/current-vacancies/rural--energy-and-projects-current-vacancies/wayleave-officers---trainee-wayleave-officers---ayr.aspx

Wayleave Officers / Trainee Wayleave Officers - Ayr
Job Description:

We are seeking Wayleave Officers / Trainee Wayleave Officers to join
our expanding network of projects staff providing consenting
services to the utilities sector throughout the UK.

I've not met the phrase "consenting services" before.

Successful candidates will possess excellent communication skills
together with an understanding of rural land and, ideally, the
utilities sector. You will be working mainly in identifying
landownership and negotiating agreements on behalf of electricity
and water companies.

Key Responsibilities:

Identifying landowners through desk based and field research
Formulating and maintaining project information databases
Preparing plans using CAD or GIS software
Negotiating consents for access and installation of apparatus
for utility companies
Understanding and implementing safe systems of work
Undertaking administration of wayleave records

Candidate Profile:

Ability to build rapport with a variety of people from different
backgrounds
Ask questions, interact, and discuss objectives regarding day to
day work of the team
Develop and maintain active communication both within your team
and other teams
Exercise confidentiality and discretion at all times
Ability to work to timescales to ensure project delivery process
is not impeded
Microsoft Office software literate
Experience in CAD/GIS mapping
Experience in linear infrastructure route design an advantage
An interest in the countryside and working outdoors
Ability to work on own initiative
Full UK driving licence and willingness to drive long distances
when required

I once met a retired wayleave officer who told me of one of his
negotiations. The electricity company he worked for needed to run cables
for some distance across a picturesque river estuary in North Wales[1].
There were strenuous objections because of the damage to the appearance
of the place that would be caused by pylons and cables. He arranged a
public meeting with local people to discuss the plans and possibilities.
The meeting was heated and got nowhere until one of the locals said
"I'll have private discussions with him and report back". That local was
the architect Clough Williams-Ellis who was responsible for the local
Italianate tourist village Portmeirion. He and the wayleave officer
agreed on a plan for the cables to be underground across the most open
part of the estuary. The proposal was accepted.

[1]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traeth_Mawr
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Whiskers
2017-04-17 16:49:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by HVS
Post by John Varela
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:24:54 UTC, "Don Phillipson"
Post by Dingbat
What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?
[...]
Post by HVS
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
I've encountered the term "way-leave" for utility rights-of-way in
England,which makes me suspect that "right-of-way" refers to the
movement of people or goods rather than infrastructure (drains, water
or fuel pipes, electricity cables).
You can sometimes see signs saying 'no public right of way' where a
property owner doesn't actually stop people from walking or driving
through a place, but wants to reserve the right to close access at any
time.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
David Kleinecke
2017-04-17 17:41:51 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Whiskers
Post by HVS
Post by John Varela
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:24:54 UTC, "Don Phillipson"
Post by Dingbat
What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?
[...]
Post by HVS
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
I've encountered the term "way-leave" for utility rights-of-way in
England,which makes me suspect that "right-of-way" refers to the
movement of people or goods rather than infrastructure (drains, water
or fuel pipes, electricity cables).
You can sometimes see signs saying 'no public right of way' where a
property owner doesn't actually stop people from walking or driving
through a place, but wants to reserve the right to close access at any
time.
Perhaps the project (to build the station) required getting 2000
different easements.
Charles Bishop
2017-04-18 00:04:06 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Whiskers
Post by HVS
Post by John Varela
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:24:54 UTC, "Don Phillipson"
Post by Dingbat
What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?
[...]
Post by HVS
Post by John Varela
I think in US law that would be an "easement". A landlocked propery
owner would have an easement to cross someone's land to reach the
public way. Also, the electric company has an easement to run wires
from the pole to my house, and therefore can come onto my property
and trim my trees without having to get my permission.
I've encountered the term "way-leave" for utility rights-of-way in
England,which makes me suspect that "right-of-way" refers to the
movement of people or goods rather than infrastructure (drains, water
or fuel pipes, electricity cables).
You can sometimes see signs saying 'no public right of way' where a
property owner doesn't actually stop people from walking or driving
through a place, but wants to reserve the right to close access at any
time.
There are rich bastards here, who live on the coast so they have a beach
in front of their houses. CA has a "beach access" provision whereby
there are points along coastal roads and streets in developed areas,
where the public is allowed access to the beach[1]. Some of the people
with houses that abut the public access have taken to blocking them,
even to the level of having official looking signs made that say "no
parking" when there is no such restriction and "no access" when ditto.

[1] the public part of a beach is defined as "from the mean high tide
line to the water" (possibly paraphrased)

I've been told that there is now an app with the locations marked so
that there is some assurance that the access is public.
--
charles
Jerry Friedman
2017-04-17 04:52:14 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Dingbat
What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?
<<Located in Toronto, Union has more than 2,000 rights of way, making it
one
of the most complex stations in the world.>>
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featureworlds-busiest-train-stations
1. Formally, "right of way" is a term of English law meaning a route
(from A to D, passing through B and C en route.) We usually encounter
this in public rights of way across privately-owned land (cf. ancient
charters granting a field to Lord X on condition that he allow the
local villagers to cross this field to get to the other side.
That depends on who "we" are. There's rather little of that sort of
thing in the U.S., I believe. As it happens, I hiked on one such trail
today, and the guidebook does use the phrase "rights-of-way". (I
wouldn't have hyphenated it.)
Post by Don Phillipson
Modern
land law concerning an isolated parcel of land often include a
right of way across someone else's land, so the owner can travel
from the public highway to his own land.)
...
--
Jerry Friedman
Charles Bishop
2017-04-18 00:06:21 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Dingbat
What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?
<<Located in Toronto, Union has more than 2,000 rights of way, making it
one
of the most complex stations in the world.>>
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featureworlds-busiest-train-stat
ions
1. Formally, "right of way" is a term of English law meaning a route
(from A to D, passing through B and C en route.) We usually encounter
this in public rights of way across privately-owned land (cf. ancient
charters granting a field to Lord X on condition that he allow the
local villagers to cross this field to get to the other side.
That depends on who "we" are. There's rather little of that sort of
thing in the U.S., I believe. As it happens, I hiked on one such trail
today, and the guidebook does use the phrase "rights-of-way". (I
wouldn't have hyphenated it.)
There are stories of building lots that were used for shortcuts by
walkers for lo, those many years, and when it came time to build on
them, found they had to grant access as was there before.

Whether these are stories (urban legends?) or true, I know not.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Don Phillipson
Modern
land law concerning an isolated parcel of land often include a
right of way across someone else's land, so the owner can travel
from the public highway to his own land.)
Charles
Whiskers
2017-04-18 07:38:41 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Charles Bishop
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Don Phillipson
Post by Dingbat
What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?
<<Located in Toronto, Union has more than 2,000 rights of way,
making it one of the most complex stations in the world.>>
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featureworlds-busiest-train-stat
ions
1. Formally, "right of way" is a term of English law meaning a
route (from A to D, passing through B and C en route.) We usually
encounter this in public rights of way across privately-owned land
(cf. ancient charters granting a field to Lord X on condition that
he allow the local villagers to cross this field to get to the
other side.
That depends on who "we" are. There's rather little of that sort of
thing in the U.S., I believe. As it happens, I hiked on one such
trail today, and the guidebook does use the phrase "rights-of-way".
(I wouldn't have hyphenated it.)
There are stories of building lots that were used for shortcuts by
walkers for lo, those many years, and when it came time to build on
them, found they had to grant access as was there before.
Whether these are stories (urban legends?) or true, I know not.
Likely true, in England and Wales anyway. If you can show that people
have been using a path or road without the land-owner doing anything
about it or posting notices etc, for a sufficient number of years (20?),
then a court can add that thoroughfare to the official map of 'public
rights of way'. If the land owner then wants to do something with the
land, [s]he has to negotiate an alternative route for the right of way.
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Whiskers
2017-04-17 10:33:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dingbat
What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?
<<Located in Toronto, Union has more than 2,000 rights of way, making
it one of the most complex stations in the world.>>
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featureworlds-busiest-train-stations
That clearly isn't a normal usage of the phrase. My guess is that it
means the number of trains arriving or departing per day, but if so why
not just say that?
--
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
-- Whiskers
-- ~~~~~~~~~~
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2017-04-17 12:07:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Whiskers
Post by Dingbat
What is the meaning of a 'right of way'?
<<Located in Toronto, Union has more than 2,000 rights of way, making
it one of the most complex stations in the world.>>
http://www.railway-technology.com/features/featureworlds-busiest-train-stations
That clearly isn't a normal usage of the phrase. My guess is that it
means the number of trains arriving or departing per day, but if so why
not just say that?
I'm still confused. Initially I wondered whether it meant that there
were 2,000 different routes *within the station and its approaches*.
That would fit with the mention of complexity.

The 2,000 could refer to the number of routes of trains travelling to
and from the station. That would naturally require the station to be
able to handle the trains running on those different routes which would
result in some sort of complexity in the handling of the trains.

I'd tentatively assume that "2,000 rights of way" means 2,000 routes of
trains served by the station.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
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