Discussion:
Henrik Ibson's "An Enemy of the People"
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Spains Harden
2020-02-04 17:13:32 UTC
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Henrik Ibson's "An Enemy of the People" doesn't seem to garner
much press - but the current Coronavirus outbreak seems to be
following that well-trodden C19th pattern. I only ever read (red)
the play in translation, but it left an enormous impression on me.

Have we learnt anything at all in 150 years?
Joseph C. Fineman
2020-02-04 20:05:55 UTC
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Post by Spains Harden
Henrik Ibson's "An Enemy of the People" doesn't seem to garner
much press - but the current Coronavirus outbreak seems to be
following that well-trodden C19th pattern. I only ever read (red)
the play in translation, but it left an enormous impression on me.
Have we learnt anything at all in 150 years?
I doubt if Ibsen expected us to. The play is a comedy, and takes it for
granted that human beings are apt to ignore dangers whose remedy is
inconvient. What makes the play funny is the lesson that those who stay
in touch with reality are apt to develop some of the symptoms of
paranoia.
--
--- Joe Fineman ***@verizon.net

||: Don't lift anything you can slide. Don't slide anything you :||
||: can roll. Don't roll anything you can leave. :||
Tak To
2020-02-05 22:08:43 UTC
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Post by Spains Harden
Henrik Ibson's "An Enemy of the People" doesn't seem to garner
much press - but the current Coronavirus outbreak seems to be
following that well-trodden C19th pattern. I only ever read (red)
the play in translation, but it left an enormous impression on me.
Have we learnt anything at all in 150 years?
What parallels are you seeing? (This is not a rhetorical
question.)
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Spains Harden
2020-02-06 11:22:34 UTC
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Post by Tak To
Post by Spains Harden
Henrik Ibson's "An Enemy of the People" doesn't seem to garner
much press - but the current Coronavirus outbreak seems to be
following that well-trodden C19th pattern. I only ever read (red)
the play in translation, but it left an enormous impression on me.
Have we learnt anything at all in 150 years?
What parallels are you seeing? (This is not a rhetorical
question.)
I haven't read it in 50 years, so I'm rereading it in this translation:

<https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2446/2446-h/2446-h.htm#chap04>

"I often thought it would of been..." notwithstanding.
Peter Moylan
2020-02-06 22:34:24 UTC
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Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tak To
Post by Spains Harden
Henrik Ibson's "An Enemy of the People" doesn't seem to garner
much press - but the current Coronavirus outbreak seems to be
following that well-trodden C19th pattern. I only ever read (red)
the play in translation, but it left an enormous impression on me.
Have we learnt anything at all in 150 years?
What parallels are you seeing? (This is not a rhetorical
question.)
<https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2446/2446-h/2446-h.htm#chap04>
"I often thought it would of been..." notwithstanding.
Translators make mistakes now and then. But he did spell Ibsen correctly.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Tak To
2020-02-07 19:01:04 UTC
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Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tak To
Post by Spains Harden
Henrik Ibson's "An Enemy of the People" doesn't seem to garner
much press - but the current Coronavirus outbreak seems to be
following that well-trodden C19th pattern. I only ever read (red)
the play in translation, but it left an enormous impression on me.
Have we learnt anything at all in 150 years?
What parallels are you seeing? (This is not a rhetorical
question.)
<https://www.gutenberg.org/files/2446/2446-h/2446-h.htm#chap04>
"I often thought it would of been..." notwithstanding.
FWIW,

Ibsen was a favorite writer in China in the early 1920's.
Most of his work have been translated into Chinese. Nora
was a symbol and "走出玩偶之家!" ("Get out of the doll's
house!") was a popular slogan. 江青 <Jiang1 Qing1>, who
later became Mao's consort, played Nora in a 1935 production
in Shanghai.

His plays were still popular in Hong Kong when I was in
secondary school. The last play I saw in Hong Kong before
I left for university was "Ghosts" in Cantonese.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Spains Harden
2020-02-06 13:20:08 UTC
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Post by Tak To
Post by Spains Harden
Henrik Ibson's "An Enemy of the People" doesn't seem to garner
much press - but the current Coronavirus outbreak seems to be
following that well-trodden C19th pattern. I only ever read (red)
the play in translation, but it left an enormous impression on me.
Have we learnt anything at all in 150 years?
What parallels are you seeing? (This is not a rhetorical
question.)
I'd forgotten what a weird play that is!

The theme of a hugely expensive health-scare being denied (until it
presumably can no longer be denied, and will become a far more
expensive catastrophe), seems to parallel what is happening in Wuhan.
Tak To
2020-02-07 20:24:46 UTC
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Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tak To
Post by Spains Harden
Henrik Ibson's "An Enemy of the People" doesn't seem to garner
much press - but the current Coronavirus outbreak seems to be
following that well-trodden C19th pattern. I only ever read (red)
the play in translation, but it left an enormous impression on me.
Have we learnt anything at all in 150 years?
What parallels are you seeing? (This is not a rhetorical
question.)
I'd forgotten what a weird play that is!
The theme of a hugely expensive health-scare being denied (until it
presumably can no longer be denied, and will become a far more
expensive catastrophe), seems to parallel what is happening in Wuhan.
From a slightly different perspective,

Ibsen's target is the society as a while; whereas in Wuhan's
case the culprit is a tiny tiny fraction of the population.
In other words, who's "we"?

Drifting a bit, I have always wonder when, if at all, the
"[Don't] yell fire in a crowded theater" rule should apply.
Dictators always defend themselves by this. Movies like
the MIB series seem to endorse the idea that the public
should be kept in the dark lest they will panic and things
would go out of hand.

Back to reality. One of the many theories about the epidemic
in China was that the initial high infection rate was caused
partly by the fact that after the announcement of the virus,
people who had regular flu panicked and went to the hospitals
for diagnosis, thereby catching the coronavirus in the waiting
room.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Peter Moylan
2020-02-08 01:45:54 UTC
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Post by Tak To
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tak To
Post by Spains Harden
Henrik Ibson's "An Enemy of the People" doesn't seem to garner
much press - but the current Coronavirus outbreak seems to be
following that well-trodden C19th pattern. I only ever read
(red) the play in translation, but it left an enormous
impression on me.
Have we learnt anything at all in 150 years?
What parallels are you seeing? (This is not a rhetorical
question.)
I'd forgotten what a weird play that is!
The theme of a hugely expensive health-scare being denied (until
it presumably can no longer be denied, and will become a far more
expensive catastrophe), seems to parallel what is happening in Wuhan.
From a slightly different perspective,
Ibsen's target is the society as a while; whereas in Wuhan's case the
culprit is a tiny tiny fraction of the population. In other words,
who's "we"?
I see that the doctor who initially raised the alert has just died.
Apparently he was reprimanded for rumour-mongering.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Tak To
2020-02-08 05:52:59 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tak To
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Tak To
Post by Spains Harden
Henrik Ibson's "An Enemy of the People" doesn't seem to garner
much press - but the current Coronavirus outbreak seems to be
following that well-trodden C19th pattern. I only ever read
(red) the play in translation, but it left an enormous
impression on me.
Have we learnt anything at all in 150 years?
What parallels are you seeing? (This is not a rhetorical
question.)
I'd forgotten what a weird play that is!
The theme of a hugely expensive health-scare being denied (until
it presumably can no longer be denied, and will become a far more
expensive catastrophe), seems to parallel what is happening in Wuhan.
From a slightly different perspective,
Ibsen's target is the society as a while; whereas in Wuhan's case the
culprit is a tiny tiny fraction of the population. In other words,
who's "we"?
I see that the doctor who initially raised the alert has just died.
Apparently he was reprimanded for rumour-mongering.
Several days ago I read an article (from a website in China)
that the case against him and seven other fellow medical
professionals has been ruled in their favor by Supreme People's
Court. However, I have not been able to get the official record
from the Court's website.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Joseph C. Fineman
2020-02-08 22:52:04 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
I see that the doctor who initially raised the alert has just died.
Apparently he was reprimanded for rumour-mongering.
Chinese reprimands can be pretty severe.
--
--- Joe Fineman ***@verizon.net

||: If your feet smell and your nose runs, you're upside down. :||
Peter Moylan
2020-02-09 00:34:30 UTC
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Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Peter Moylan
I see that the doctor who initially raised the alert has just died.
Apparently he was reprimanded for rumour-mongering.
Chinese reprimands can be pretty severe.
Hmm. On reflection, I see that I could have phrased that better.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Spains Harden
2020-02-09 18:15:14 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Peter Moylan
I see that the doctor who initially raised the alert has just died.
Apparently he was reprimanded for rumour-mongering.
Chinese reprimands can be pretty severe.
Hmm. On reflection, I see that I could have phrased that better.
Ibsen got it right.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-02-10 09:44:23 UTC
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On Sun, 09 Feb 2020 00:34:30 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Joseph C. Fineman
Post by Peter Moylan
I see that the doctor who initially raised the alert has just died.
Apparently he was reprimanded for rumour-mongering.
Chinese reprimands can be pretty severe.
Hmm. On reflection, I see that I could have phrased that better.
What, no conspiracy?
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Anders D. Nygaard
2020-02-14 17:35:02 UTC
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[About Corona]
I see that the doctor who initially raised the alert has just died.
Apparently he was reprimanded for rumour-mongering.
One wonders whether he official story that he died from Corona is true.

/Anders, Denmark. Amateur conspiracy theorist.
Spains Harden
2020-02-14 17:57:47 UTC
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Post by Anders D. Nygaard
[About Corona]
I see that the doctor who initially raised the alert has just died.
Apparently he was reprimanded for rumour-mongering.
One wonders whether he official story that he died from Corona is true.
Indeed. Like ordinary flu Corona seems to be a relatively harmless illness
(or disease?) that preys on the very weak and the very elderly. He was (in
reports I have heard) made to recant his findings under police pressure.

"infectious" is a word I haven't heard, and which now seems to have
been subsumed into "contagious".
Peter Young
2020-02-14 18:27:15 UTC
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Post by Spains Harden
Post by Anders D. Nygaard
[About Corona]
I see that the doctor who initially raised the alert has just died.
Apparently he was reprimanded for rumour-mongering.
One wonders whether he official story that he died from Corona is true.
Indeed. Like ordinary flu Corona seems to be a relatively harmless illness
(or disease?) that preys on the very weak and the very elderly. He was (in
reports I have heard) made to recant his findings under police pressure.
"infectious" is a word I haven't heard, and which now seems to have
been subsumed into "contagious".
For pedants, or better explained as those who like accuracy, contagious
diseases are passed on by physical contact. The etymology says so.

Peter the pedant.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Ken Blake
2020-02-14 18:52:28 UTC
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Post by Spains Harden
Like ordinary flu Corona seems to be a relatively harmless illness
(or disease?) that preys on the very weak and the very elderly.
Do you have a citation for that?
--
Ken
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2020-02-14 19:27:08 UTC
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Post by Ken Blake
Post by Spains Harden
Like ordinary flu Corona seems to be a relatively harmless illness
(or disease?) that preys on the very weak and the very elderly.
Do you have a citation for that?
Information from the World Health Organisation is:
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses

Q&A on coronaviruses
11 February 2020
....

Who is at risk of developing severe illness?

While we still need to learn more about how 2019-nCoV affects
people, thus far, older people, and people with pre-existing medical
conditions (such as diabetes and heart disease) appear to be more at
risk of developing severe disease.

Until more information is available it seems to be very sensible to take
precautions based on a worst case scenario.

As the old adage has it "Hope For the Best but Plan For the Worst" (or
similar).
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Ken Blake
2020-02-14 19:51:21 UTC
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Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Spains Harden
Like ordinary flu Corona seems to be a relatively harmless illness
(or disease?) that preys on the very weak and the very elderly.
Do you have a citation for that?
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses
Q&A on coronaviruses
11 February 2020
....
Who is at risk of developing severe illness?
While we still need to learn more about how 2019-nCoV affects
people, thus far, older people, and people with pre-existing medical
conditions (such as diabetes and heart disease) appear to be more at
risk of developing severe disease.
Until more information is available it seems to be very sensible to take
precautions based on a worst case scenario.
As the old adage has it "Hope For the Best but Plan For the Worst" (or
similar).
Thanks very much. I didn't know any of this.
--
Ken
Peter Moylan
2020-02-14 23:41:56 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Spains Harden
Like ordinary flu Corona seems to be a relatively harmless illness
(or disease?) that preys on the very weak and the very elderly.
Do you have a citation for that?
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses
Q&A on coronaviruses
11 February 2020
....
Who is at risk of developing severe illness?
While we still need to learn more about how 2019-nCoV affects
people, thus far, older people, and people with pre-existing medical
conditions (such as diabetes and heart disease) appear to be more at
risk of developing severe disease.
Until more information is available it seems to be very sensible to take
precautions based on a worst case scenario.
As the old adage has it "Hope For the Best but Plan For the Worst" (or
similar).
This could be the end of AUE, then.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
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