Discussion:
"As cold as charity"
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occam
2021-05-02 07:46:19 UTC
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I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.

Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.

https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/

[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-02 13:09:50 UTC
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Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."

I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Peter Moylan
2021-05-03 01:13:30 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I
was surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel
of Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax
cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression (which
I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his message
as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken to be among
the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually have said --
that were remembered and later recorded by some who where there.
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Sam Plusnet
2021-05-03 19:43:21 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?

The biblical equivalent of:
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Jerry Friedman
2021-05-03 19:50:51 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
At one point the catchphrase for this, in my country, was "Don't buy green
bananas."
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
2021-05-03 22:27:51 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
At one point the catchphrase for this, in my country, was "Don't buy green
bananas."
IIRC, in the MAD parody of "Love Story", the doctor tells the husband
that the wife has 3 minutes to live. He asks her if she has any wish,
and she asks for a 5-minute egg.
--
Manche Dinge sind vorgeschrieben, weil man sie braucht, andere
braucht man nur, weil sie vorgeschrieben sind.
-- Helmut Richter in de.etc.sprache.deutsch
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-05-04 07:41:16 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
At one point the catchphrase for this, in my country, was "Don't buy green
bananas."
In 1989 I invited a distinguished American scientist to a meeting in
Hungary that I was organizing. He didn't look in tip-top shape, but he
came and was more or less OK. Someone asked him how he was, and he said
he wasn't buying green bananas. He died a few weeks later.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
J. J. Lodder
2021-05-06 13:27:42 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
At one point the catchphrase for this, in my country, was "Don't buy green
bananas."
So I didn't get it when you used it,

Jan
Jerry Friedman
2021-05-06 18:30:22 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
At one point the catchphrase for this, in my country, was "Don't buy green
bananas."
So I didn't get it when you used it,
I'm not going to take much of the blame for this, since I posted the above
before I used the phrase in reference to fictional detectives.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Moylan
2021-05-04 02:05:48 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
bil...@shaw.ca
2021-05-04 06:01:53 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I still buy my eggs
by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying half a dozen at a time,
and partly because I don't have the space to store larger quantities.

bill
occam
2021-05-04 06:28:32 UTC
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Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I still buy my eggs
by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying half a dozen at a time,
and partly because I don't have the space to store larger quantities.
And how do you feel about your malt collection? Is that also on a
what-you-need basis or is there a longer term strategy there?
bil...@shaw.ca
2021-05-04 07:18:10 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I still buy my eggs
by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying half a dozen at a time,
and partly because I don't have the space to store larger quantities.
And how do you feel about your malt collection? Is that also on a
what-you-need basis or is there a longer term strategy there?
My single malt scotch collection is, alas, down to two or three bottles at a time
these days. That's partly due to lower disposable income, and partly to less interest
in having a lot of single-malt options at hand.

bill
Graham
2021-05-04 15:20:09 UTC
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Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by occam
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I still buy my eggs
by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying half a dozen at a time,
and partly because I don't have the space to store larger quantities.
And how do you feel about your malt collection? Is that also on a
what-you-need basis or is there a longer term strategy there?
My single malt scotch collection is, alas, down to two or three bottles at a time
these days. That's partly due to lower disposable income, and partly to less interest
in having a lot of single-malt options at hand.
bill
I'm gradually drinking my collection of classed-growth clarets and
burgundies for much the same reason.
charles
2021-05-04 07:36:40 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up
signs saying "Millions now living will never die", although I
haven't seen examples for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were
written until several decades later?
The biblical equivalent of: "Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I
still buy my eggs by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying
half a dozen at a time, and partly because I don't have the space to
store larger quantities.
And how do you feel about your malt collection? Is that also on a
what-you-need basis or is there a longer term strategy there?
before the pandemic, my younger daughter looked at my malt collection and
said that if I drank it all, I'd die, so should she relieve me of some. I
declined her offer.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
occam
2021-05-04 09:13:54 UTC
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Post by charles
Post by occam
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up
signs saying "Millions now living will never die", although I
haven't seen examples for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were
written until several decades later?
The biblical equivalent of: "Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I
still buy my eggs by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying
half a dozen at a time, and partly because I don't have the space to
store larger quantities.
And how do you feel about your malt collection? Is that also on a
what-you-need basis or is there a longer term strategy there?
before the pandemic, my younger daughter looked at my malt collection and
said that if I drank it all, I'd die, so should she relieve me of some. I
declined her offer.
A few years ago my brother passed away. As he had no wife/children of
his own, his belongings were auctioned off by a specialist 'house
clearance' agency. His brothers (including me) had a veto on what should
not go to public auction. His collection of single malts was first on
that list. He clearly had a long-term strategy on whiskies, judging by
the collection.
Peter Moylan
2021-05-04 08:18:45 UTC
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Post by charles
before the pandemic, my younger daughter looked at my malt collection and
said that if I drank it all, I'd die, so should she relieve me of some. I
declined her offer.
That's not such a bad way to die.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Quinn C
2021-05-04 21:49:27 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by charles
before the pandemic, my younger daughter looked at my malt collection and
said that if I drank it all, I'd die, so should she relieve me of some. I
declined her offer.
That's not such a bad way to die.
How about "It can't be a suicide, despite appearances, because that
bottle of expensive Scotch he saved for a special occasion was
untouched." I remember it from Veronica Mars, but I'd guess it's a trope
that's been done before.
--
There is no freedom for men unless there is freedom for women.
If women mustn't bring their will to the fore, why should men
be allowed to?
-- Hedwig Dohm (1876), my translation
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-05-04 10:45:58 UTC
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On Tue, 4 May 2021 08:28:32 +0200
Post by occam
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I still buy my eggs
by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying half a dozen at a time,
and partly because I don't have the space to store larger quantities.
And how do you feel about your malt collection? Is that also on a
what-you-need basis or is there a longer term strategy there?
Remember the sad case of Helmut Schmidt, who only lasted while his stockpile of favourite cigarettes held out.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2013/jul/10/helmut-schmidt-hoarding-menthol-cigarettes



.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Joy Beeson
2021-05-06 07:03:48 UTC
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On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.

And get fat on it.
Janet
2021-05-06 10:48:31 UTC
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Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.
And get fat on it.
Datestamped half-dozen boxes of eggs are available in
every UK supermarket. It's a common, unrefrigerated,
convenient way to buy really fresh eggs.

Janet.
Jerry Friedman
2021-05-06 14:16:03 UTC
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Post by Janet
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.
And get fat on it.
Datestamped half-dozen boxes of eggs are available in
every UK supermarket. It's a common, unrefrigerated,
convenient way to buy really fresh eggs.
Date-stamped refrigerated half-dozen boxes of eggs are probably
available in every U.S. supermarket. I buy one or two a year.
--
Jerry Friedman
HVS
2021-05-06 14:50:09 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.
And get fat on it.
Datestamped half-dozen boxes of eggs are available in
every UK supermarket. It's a common, unrefrigerated,
convenient way to buy really fresh eggs.
Date-stamped refrigerated half-dozen boxes of eggs are probably
available in every U.S. supermarket. I buy one or two a year.
We buy more like a dozen eggs a week.

There were two things about eggs that I found different when I moved
from Canada to the UK: people seem to prefer buying eggs by the
half-dozen rather than by the dozen, and a standard breakfast serving
has just a single egg.

WIWAL, I'd have been quite taken aback if served a single egg -- it
was almost like there was some rule that required eggs to be served
in pairs.
--
Cheers, Harvey

CanE (30 years) and BrE (38 years),
indiscriminately mixed.
Mack A. Damia
2021-05-06 15:05:03 UTC
Reply
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Post by HVS
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.
And get fat on it.
Datestamped half-dozen boxes of eggs are available in
every UK supermarket. It's a common, unrefrigerated,
convenient way to buy really fresh eggs.
Date-stamped refrigerated half-dozen boxes of eggs are probably
available in every U.S. supermarket. I buy one or two a year.
We buy more like a dozen eggs a week.
There were two things about eggs that I found different when I moved
from Canada to the UK: people seem to prefer buying eggs by the
half-dozen rather than by the dozen, and a standard breakfast serving
has just a single egg.
WIWAL, I'd have been quite taken aback if served a single egg -- it
was almost like there was some rule that required eggs to be served
in pairs.
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?

I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.

Olive oil fried eggs:

https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/olive-oil-basted-fried-eggs

(Spoon the hot oil over the yolk)

Yum.
Jerry Friedman
2021-05-06 15:13:59 UTC
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On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 9:05:18 AM UTC-6, Mack A. Damia wrote:
...
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/olive-oil-basted-fried-eggs
(Spoon the hot oil over the yolk)
Yum.
Certainly sounds better than basting them with bacon grease.
Not cheap, though.
--
Jerry Friedman
Mack A. Damia
2021-05-06 15:46:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing

Collins:

scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up

(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
Post by Jerry Friedman
https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/olive-oil-basted-fried-eggs
(Spoon the hot oil over the yolk)
Yum.
Certainly sounds better than basting them with bacon grease.
Not cheap, though.
Jerry Friedman
2021-05-06 17:26:33 UTC
Reply
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Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
--
Jerry Friedman
Mack A. Damia
2021-05-06 17:32:52 UTC
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On Thu, 6 May 2021 10:26:33 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
Yes, "scarf" seems to be U.S. in origin. I don't know where I picked
it up.

"Brekkie" is British. Collins has it, and I always use it. I was
posting to the 2eggs brekkie group for over twenty years.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/brekky
Mack A. Damia
2021-05-06 20:25:28 UTC
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On Thu, 06 May 2021 10:32:52 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 10:26:33 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
Yes, "scarf" seems to be U.S. in origin. I don't know where I picked
it up.
"Brekkie" is British. Collins has it, and I always use it. I was
posting to the 2eggs brekkie group for over twenty years.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/brekky
Realized that there is a difference in spelling.

Urban Dictionary says that "brekkie" is an Australian slang term for
breakfast.

Wiktionary says: (Britain) (informal) breakfast.

Oxford dictionary has "brekkie, also brekky".

Of course the Internet has capitalized on the difference and turned it
into a dilemma. I wish these people would get a life or at least a
decent education.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-06 18:04:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
I first heard "scoff" from a Canadian (a Torontan, fully rhotic), so he
must have learned it from a Brit? But not from USans.
bil...@shaw.ca
2021-05-06 20:04:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
I first heard "scoff" from a Canadian (a Torontan, fully rhotic), so he
must have learned it from a Brit? But not from USans.
I remember it only as "scarf" or "scarf down". Also, people who live in Toronto
were called Torontonians both when I lived there and when I didn't. I've never
heard "Torontan", but I haven't been there lately.

bill
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-06 21:38:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
I first heard "scoff" from a Canadian (a Torontan, fully rhotic), so he
must have learned it from a Brit? But not from USans.
I remember it only as "scarf" or "scarf down". Also, people who live in Toronto
were called Torontonians both when I lived there and when I didn't. I've never
heard "Torontan", but I haven't been there lately.
I don't think I'd have been too puzzled if he'd said "scarf down," but he said a
non-rhotic word without "prepositional" particle. And since the place is Chrana,
I suppose I should have said he's a Chranan. He's been a professor at Penn for
years but never changed his citizenship and is about to retire home (despite
the climate).
Ross Clark
2021-05-06 21:48:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
I first heard "scoff" from a Canadian (a Torontan, fully rhotic), so he
must have learned it from a Brit? But not from USans.
I remember it only as "scarf" or "scarf down". Also, people who live in Toronto
were called Torontonians both when I lived there and when I didn't. I've never
heard "Torontan", but I haven't been there lately.
bill
This word has a messy history -- probably a fusion of a BrEng dialect
word ("Scottish" is suggested above) and a SAfEng one (from Afrikaans).
It appears variously with LOT, THOUGHT, PALM and possibly TRAP vowels.

Historically there is no /r/, so assuming you (Bill) are fully rhotic
and have an /r/ in the word, that would have arisen either from spelling
pronunciation (of spellings like scorf, scarf) or dialect borrowing (as
in the Canadian pronunciation of "khaki").

I first noticed it in MAD magazine ca.1960, as "scoff" -- purported
hipster/beatnik slang. (Interestingly, Green has a citation from the
same magazine in 1954, where a "Hepster's Dictionary" gives scarf -
eat.) In AmEng Wentworth & Flexner have scoff 'eat' from 1936, Green has
scorf 'eat' from 1926.

charles
2021-05-06 15:08:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by HVS
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.
And get fat on it.
Datestamped half-dozen boxes of eggs are available in
every UK supermarket. It's a common, unrefrigerated,
convenient way to buy really fresh eggs.
Date-stamped refrigerated half-dozen boxes of eggs are probably
available in every U.S. supermarket. I buy one or two a year.
We buy more like a dozen eggs a week.
There were two things about eggs that I found different when I moved
from Canada to the UK: people seem to prefer buying eggs by the
half-dozen rather than by the dozen, and a standard breakfast serving
has just a single egg.
some years ago, I was stay with friends in a small hotel in Yorkshire.
Breakfast arrived and one of ladies was outraged that the men were served
with 2 eggs while she only got one, The next two days, she got two.
Post by HVS
WIWAL, I'd have been quite taken aback if served a single egg -- it
was almost like there was some rule that required eggs to be served
in pairs.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-06 16:13:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by HVS
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.
And get fat on it.
Datestamped half-dozen boxes of eggs are available in
every UK supermarket. It's a common, unrefrigerated,
convenient way to buy really fresh eggs.
Date-stamped refrigerated half-dozen boxes of eggs are probably
available in every U.S. supermarket. I buy one or two a year.
We buy more like a dozen eggs a week.
There were two things about eggs that I found different when I moved
from Canada to the UK: people seem to prefer buying eggs by the
half-dozen rather than by the dozen, and a standard breakfast serving
has just a single egg.
WIWAL, I'd have been quite taken aback if served a single egg -- it
was almost like there was some rule that required eggs to be served
in pairs.
The B&B in Munich _began_ every breakfast with a lone, (disgustingly)
soft-boiled egg sitting on an egg cup. It was then followed by plate after
plate of meats (cold and hot), cheeses, and breads of all kinds. By the second
day, I asked her not to bring the egg. _Plus_ the conference took us to
both lunch and dinner in nice downtown restaurants.
Ross Clark
2021-05-04 02:34:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-04 14:06:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
It means that there is no sense of "charity" to which a metaphor
about its temperature can be applied.

It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead. It's just a meaningless string of words like
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Ross Clark
2021-05-05 00:31:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
It means that there is no sense of "charity" to which a metaphor
about its temperature can be applied.
That is not how many people see it:

"The phrase (as) cold as charity refers to the perfunctory, unfeeling
manner in which acts of charity are often done, and public charities
administered." (wordhistories.net)

"An ironic reference to the cold-hearted nature of much so-called
charity, which should naturally be warm." (en.wiktionary.com)
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this expression
tell you that?

It's just a meaningless string of words like
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Stefan Ram
2021-05-05 00:44:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
"An ironic reference to the cold-hearted nature of much so-called
charity, which should naturally be warm." (en.wiktionary.com)
Maybe Bob Dylan refers to this in "The Ballad of Frankie Lee
and Judas Priest". Frankie Lee needed money one day, and
Judas quickly pulled out a roll of tens. But then Frankie's
head began to spin, because of

|the cold eyes of Judas on him

. Harry Harlow famously found that monkeys preferred cloth
mothers to wire mothers. When only the wire mother had food,
the babies came to the wire mother to feed and immediately
returned to cling to the cloth surrogate.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-05 13:16:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
It means that there is no sense of "charity" to which a metaphor
about its temperature can be applied.
"The phrase (as) cold as charity refers to the perfunctory, unfeeling
manner in which acts of charity are often done, and public charities
administered." (wordhistories.net)
"An ironic reference to the cold-hearted nature of much so-called
charity, which should naturally be warm." (en.wiktionary.com)
So they _don't_ see it as an allusion to Matt 24:12? Q.E.D.
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this expression
tell you that?
The latest one was dated 1833, wasn't it?

I never encountered the expression before this thread. (Of course
I don't read the sort of literary fiction in which it might occasionally
still appear.)
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's just a meaningless string of words like
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
The _individual words_ "kith" and "fro" occurs nowhere else.
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Ross Clark
2021-05-05 21:42:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
It means that there is no sense of "charity" to which a metaphor
about its temperature can be applied.
"The phrase (as) cold as charity refers to the perfunctory, unfeeling
manner in which acts of charity are often done, and public charities
administered." (wordhistories.net)
"An ironic reference to the cold-hearted nature of much so-called
charity, which should naturally be warm." (en.wiktionary.com)
So they _don't_ see it as an allusion to Matt 24:12? Q.E.D.
That is _not_ what you said you meant by "dead". The above quotations
show that, for many people, "charity" in its common present-day sense
_is_ something to which a temperature simile can be applied.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this expression
tell you that?
The latest one was dated 1833, wasn't it?
I never encountered the expression before this thread. (Of course
I don't read the sort of literary fiction in which it might occasionally
still appear.)
How would either the limitations of your personal experience or the
dating of a selection of examples constitute evidence as to the
expression's origin?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's just a meaningless string of words like
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
The _individual words_ "kith" and "fro" occurs nowhere else.
How does that fact render the expressions meaningless?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-06 16:09:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
It means that there is no sense of "charity" to which a metaphor
about its temperature can be applied.
"The phrase (as) cold as charity refers to the perfunctory, unfeeling
manner in which acts of charity are often done, and public charities
administered." (wordhistories.net)
"An ironic reference to the cold-hearted nature of much so-called
charity, which should naturally be warm." (en.wiktionary.com)
So they _don't_ see it as an allusion to Matt 24:12? Q.E.D.
That is _not_ what you said you meant by "dead". The above quotations
show that, for many people, "charity" in its common present-day sense
_is_ something to which a temperature simile can be applied.
I see no one using "cold as charity" later than 1833.
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this expression
tell you that?
The latest one was dated 1833, wasn't it?
I never encountered the expression before this thread. (Of course
I don't read the sort of literary fiction in which it might occasionally
still appear.)
How would either the limitations of your personal experience or the
dating of a selection of examples constitute evidence as to the
expression's origin?
Has anyone demonstrated a connection?
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's just a meaningless string of words like
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
The _individual words_ "kith" and "fro" occurs nowhere else.
How does that fact render the expressions meaningless?
Jeez. The EXPRESION is not meaningless; it is an idiom. The
STRING OF WORDS is meaningless.
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Stefan Ram
2021-05-02 18:41:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
In the recent (2020) "literal" translation
(of the Covenant Christian Coalition):

|11 And many false prophets will arise,
| and will lead many astray;
|12 and because of the abounding of the lawlessness,
| the love of the many will become cold;
|13 but he who endured to the end,
| he will be saved;

.
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