Discussion:
"As cold as charity"
(too old to reply)
occam
2021-05-02 07:46:19 UTC
Permalink
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.

Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.

https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/

[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-02 13:09:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."

I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Peter Moylan
2021-05-03 01:13:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I
was surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel
of Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax
cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression (which
I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his message
as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken to be among
the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually have said --
that were remembered and later recorded by some who where there.
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Sam Plusnet
2021-05-03 19:43:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?

The biblical equivalent of:
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Jerry Friedman
2021-05-03 19:50:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
At one point the catchphrase for this, in my country, was "Don't buy green
bananas."
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
2021-05-03 22:27:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
At one point the catchphrase for this, in my country, was "Don't buy green
bananas."
IIRC, in the MAD parody of "Love Story", the doctor tells the husband
that the wife has 3 minutes to live. He asks her if she has any wish,
and she asks for a 5-minute egg.
--
Manche Dinge sind vorgeschrieben, weil man sie braucht, andere
braucht man nur, weil sie vorgeschrieben sind.
-- Helmut Richter in de.etc.sprache.deutsch
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-05-04 07:41:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
At one point the catchphrase for this, in my country, was "Don't buy green
bananas."
In 1989 I invited a distinguished American scientist to a meeting in
Hungary that I was organizing. He didn't look in tip-top shape, but he
came and was more or less OK. Someone asked him how he was, and he said
he wasn't buying green bananas. He died a few weeks later.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
J. J. Lodder
2021-05-06 13:27:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
At one point the catchphrase for this, in my country, was "Don't buy green
bananas."
So I didn't get it when you used it,

Jan
Jerry Friedman
2021-05-06 18:30:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
At one point the catchphrase for this, in my country, was "Don't buy green
bananas."
So I didn't get it when you used it,
I'm not going to take much of the blame for this, since I posted the above
before I used the phrase in reference to fictional detectives.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Moylan
2021-05-04 02:05:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
bil...@shaw.ca
2021-05-04 06:01:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I still buy my eggs
by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying half a dozen at a time,
and partly because I don't have the space to store larger quantities.

bill
occam
2021-05-04 06:28:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I still buy my eggs
by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying half a dozen at a time,
and partly because I don't have the space to store larger quantities.
And how do you feel about your malt collection? Is that also on a
what-you-need basis or is there a longer term strategy there?
bil...@shaw.ca
2021-05-04 07:18:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I still buy my eggs
by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying half a dozen at a time,
and partly because I don't have the space to store larger quantities.
And how do you feel about your malt collection? Is that also on a
what-you-need basis or is there a longer term strategy there?
My single malt scotch collection is, alas, down to two or three bottles at a time
these days. That's partly due to lower disposable income, and partly to less interest
in having a lot of single-malt options at hand.

bill
Graham
2021-05-04 15:20:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by occam
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I still buy my eggs
by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying half a dozen at a time,
and partly because I don't have the space to store larger quantities.
And how do you feel about your malt collection? Is that also on a
what-you-need basis or is there a longer term strategy there?
My single malt scotch collection is, alas, down to two or three bottles at a time
these days. That's partly due to lower disposable income, and partly to less interest
in having a lot of single-malt options at hand.
bill
I'm gradually drinking my collection of classed-growth clarets and
burgundies for much the same reason.
charles
2021-05-04 07:36:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up
signs saying "Millions now living will never die", although I
haven't seen examples for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were
written until several decades later?
The biblical equivalent of: "Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I
still buy my eggs by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying
half a dozen at a time, and partly because I don't have the space to
store larger quantities.
And how do you feel about your malt collection? Is that also on a
what-you-need basis or is there a longer term strategy there?
before the pandemic, my younger daughter looked at my malt collection and
said that if I drank it all, I'd die, so should she relieve me of some. I
declined her offer.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
occam
2021-05-04 09:13:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by occam
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all
these things be fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up
signs saying "Millions now living will never die", although I
haven't seen examples for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were
written until several decades later?
The biblical equivalent of: "Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I
still buy my eggs by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying
half a dozen at a time, and partly because I don't have the space to
store larger quantities.
And how do you feel about your malt collection? Is that also on a
what-you-need basis or is there a longer term strategy there?
before the pandemic, my younger daughter looked at my malt collection and
said that if I drank it all, I'd die, so should she relieve me of some. I
declined her offer.
A few years ago my brother passed away. As he had no wife/children of
his own, his belongings were auctioned off by a specialist 'house
clearance' agency. His brothers (including me) had a veto on what should
not go to public auction. His collection of single malts was first on
that list. He clearly had a long-term strategy on whiskies, judging by
the collection.
Peter Moylan
2021-05-04 08:18:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
before the pandemic, my younger daughter looked at my malt collection and
said that if I drank it all, I'd die, so should she relieve me of some. I
declined her offer.
That's not such a bad way to die.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Quinn C
2021-05-04 21:49:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by charles
before the pandemic, my younger daughter looked at my malt collection and
said that if I drank it all, I'd die, so should she relieve me of some. I
declined her offer.
That's not such a bad way to die.
How about "It can't be a suicide, despite appearances, because that
bottle of expensive Scotch he saved for a special occasion was
untouched." I remember it from Veronica Mars, but I'd guess it's a trope
that's been done before.
--
There is no freedom for men unless there is freedom for women.
If women mustn't bring their will to the fore, why should men
be allowed to?
-- Hedwig Dohm (1876), my translation
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-05-04 10:45:58 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 4 May 2021 08:28:32 +0200
Post by occam
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
A particularly famous passage, and well known for the prediction "Verily
I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled." That's why some churches used to put up signs saying
"Millions now living will never die", although I haven't seen examples
for a while now.
Is that the passage which explains why none of the gospels were written
until several decades later?
"Doctor tell me. Am I going to be OK?"
"Well, I wouldn't start reading any long novels if I were you."
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
Stick to what's practical for you. I'm approaching elderly status but I still buy my eggs
by the dozen, partly because it's cheaper than buying half a dozen at a time,
and partly because I don't have the space to store larger quantities.
And how do you feel about your malt collection? Is that also on a
what-you-need basis or is there a longer term strategy there?
Remember the sad case of Helmut Schmidt, who only lasted while his stockpile of favourite cigarettes held out.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/shortcuts/2013/jul/10/helmut-schmidt-hoarding-menthol-cigarettes



.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Joy Beeson
2021-05-06 07:03:48 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.

And get fat on it.
Janet
2021-05-06 10:48:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.
And get fat on it.
Datestamped half-dozen boxes of eggs are available in
every UK supermarket. It's a common, unrefrigerated,
convenient way to buy really fresh eggs.

Janet.
Jerry Friedman
2021-05-06 14:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.
And get fat on it.
Datestamped half-dozen boxes of eggs are available in
every UK supermarket. It's a common, unrefrigerated,
convenient way to buy really fresh eggs.
Date-stamped refrigerated half-dozen boxes of eggs are probably
available in every U.S. supermarket. I buy one or two a year.
--
Jerry Friedman
HVS
2021-05-06 14:50:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.
And get fat on it.
Datestamped half-dozen boxes of eggs are available in
every UK supermarket. It's a common, unrefrigerated,
convenient way to buy really fresh eggs.
Date-stamped refrigerated half-dozen boxes of eggs are probably
available in every U.S. supermarket. I buy one or two a year.
We buy more like a dozen eggs a week.

There were two things about eggs that I found different when I moved
from Canada to the UK: people seem to prefer buying eggs by the
half-dozen rather than by the dozen, and a standard breakfast serving
has just a single egg.

WIWAL, I'd have been quite taken aback if served a single egg -- it
was almost like there was some rule that required eggs to be served
in pairs.
--
Cheers, Harvey

CanE (30 years) and BrE (38 years),
indiscriminately mixed.
Mack A. Damia
2021-05-06 15:05:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVS
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.
And get fat on it.
Datestamped half-dozen boxes of eggs are available in
every UK supermarket. It's a common, unrefrigerated,
convenient way to buy really fresh eggs.
Date-stamped refrigerated half-dozen boxes of eggs are probably
available in every U.S. supermarket. I buy one or two a year.
We buy more like a dozen eggs a week.
There were two things about eggs that I found different when I moved
from Canada to the UK: people seem to prefer buying eggs by the
half-dozen rather than by the dozen, and a standard breakfast serving
has just a single egg.
WIWAL, I'd have been quite taken aback if served a single egg -- it
was almost like there was some rule that required eggs to be served
in pairs.
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?

I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.

Olive oil fried eggs:

https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/olive-oil-basted-fried-eggs

(Spoon the hot oil over the yolk)

Yum.
Jerry Friedman
2021-05-06 15:13:59 UTC
Permalink
On Thursday, May 6, 2021 at 9:05:18 AM UTC-6, Mack A. Damia wrote:
...
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/olive-oil-basted-fried-eggs
(Spoon the hot oil over the yolk)
Yum.
Certainly sounds better than basting them with bacon grease.
Not cheap, though.
--
Jerry Friedman
Mack A. Damia
2021-05-06 15:46:41 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing

Collins:

scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up

(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
Post by Jerry Friedman
https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/olive-oil-basted-fried-eggs
(Spoon the hot oil over the yolk)
Yum.
Certainly sounds better than basting them with bacon grease.
Not cheap, though.
Jerry Friedman
2021-05-06 17:26:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
--
Jerry Friedman
Mack A. Damia
2021-05-06 17:32:52 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 6 May 2021 10:26:33 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
Yes, "scarf" seems to be U.S. in origin. I don't know where I picked
it up.

"Brekkie" is British. Collins has it, and I always use it. I was
posting to the 2eggs brekkie group for over twenty years.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/brekky
Mack A. Damia
2021-05-06 20:25:28 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 06 May 2021 10:32:52 -0700, Mack A. Damia
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 10:26:33 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
Yes, "scarf" seems to be U.S. in origin. I don't know where I picked
it up.
"Brekkie" is British. Collins has it, and I always use it. I was
posting to the 2eggs brekkie group for over twenty years.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/brekky
Realized that there is a difference in spelling.

Urban Dictionary says that "brekkie" is an Australian slang term for
breakfast.

Wiktionary says: (Britain) (informal) breakfast.

Oxford dictionary has "brekkie, also brekky".

Of course the Internet has capitalized on the difference and turned it
into a dilemma. I wish these people would get a life or at least a
decent education.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-06 18:04:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
I first heard "scoff" from a Canadian (a Torontan, fully rhotic), so he
must have learned it from a Brit? But not from USans.
bil...@shaw.ca
2021-05-06 20:04:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
I first heard "scoff" from a Canadian (a Torontan, fully rhotic), so he
must have learned it from a Brit? But not from USans.
I remember it only as "scarf" or "scarf down". Also, people who live in Toronto
were called Torontonians both when I lived there and when I didn't. I've never
heard "Torontan", but I haven't been there lately.

bill
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-06 21:38:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
I first heard "scoff" from a Canadian (a Torontan, fully rhotic), so he
must have learned it from a Brit? But not from USans.
I remember it only as "scarf" or "scarf down". Also, people who live in Toronto
were called Torontonians both when I lived there and when I didn't. I've never
heard "Torontan", but I haven't been there lately.
I don't think I'd have been too puzzled if he'd said "scarf down," but he said a
non-rhotic word without "prepositional" particle. And since the place is Chrana,
I suppose I should have said he's a Chranan. He's been a professor at Penn for
years but never changed his citizenship and is about to retire home (despite
the climate).
Mack A. Damia
2021-05-10 14:36:57 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 6 May 2021 14:38:35 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
I first heard "scoff" from a Canadian (a Torontan, fully rhotic), so he
must have learned it from a Brit? But not from USans.
I remember it only as "scarf" or "scarf down". Also, people who live in Toronto
were called Torontonians both when I lived there and when I didn't. I've never
heard "Torontan", but I haven't been there lately.
I don't think I'd have been too puzzled if he'd said "scarf down," but he said a
non-rhotic word without "prepositional" particle. And since the place is Chrana,
I suppose I should have said he's a Chranan. He's been a professor at Penn for
years but never changed his citizenship and is about to retire home (despite
the climate).
Scarf? Just reminded me. My sister's birthday is later this month;
she will be 78 years old. I always try to get her something special.

I was eight years old. We sailed from New York City to Southampton in
May, 1955, and she celebrated her 12th birthday on board. We sailed
on the Holland American liner, SS Nieuw Amsterdam. It was a lovely
transatlantic crossing.

I found this. I put a note in the package, "I forgot to give you
this on your 12th birthday!"

Loading Image...

Out for delivery now according to tracking. She will get it today.
Ross Clark
2021-05-06 21:48:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Thu, 6 May 2021 08:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
We usually buy brown eggs. Is it a tall-tale that they are tastier
than white eggs?
What I've read in cookbooks is that the part inside the shell has no
difference at all.
I don't think I ever noticed because I am too busy scarfing my
brekkie.
Shouldn't that be "scoffing your brekkie" or "scarfing your breakfast"?
Or is one of those words interpondial now?
"To eat something quickly and eagerly"
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/scarfing
scarf
in American English
(sk?rf)
US
VERB TRANSITIVE
Slang
to consume greedily
often with down or up
(Variation of "scaff" - Scottish in origin)
So "scarf" is American. Isn't "brekkie" British? It's not in AHD or M-W.
I first heard "scoff" from a Canadian (a Torontan, fully rhotic), so he
must have learned it from a Brit? But not from USans.
I remember it only as "scarf" or "scarf down". Also, people who live in Toronto
were called Torontonians both when I lived there and when I didn't. I've never
heard "Torontan", but I haven't been there lately.
bill
This word has a messy history -- probably a fusion of a BrEng dialect
word ("Scottish" is suggested above) and a SAfEng one (from Afrikaans).
It appears variously with LOT, THOUGHT, PALM and possibly TRAP vowels.

Historically there is no /r/, so assuming you (Bill) are fully rhotic
and have an /r/ in the word, that would have arisen either from spelling
pronunciation (of spellings like scorf, scarf) or dialect borrowing (as
in the Canadian pronunciation of "khaki").

I first noticed it in MAD magazine ca.1960, as "scoff" -- purported
hipster/beatnik slang. (Interestingly, Green has a citation from the
same magazine in 1954, where a "Hepster's Dictionary" gives scarf -
eat.) In AmEng Wentworth & Flexner have scoff 'eat' from 1936, Green has
scorf 'eat' from 1926.
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-05-07 09:35:59 UTC
Permalink
[Scoff v Scarf]

scoff: stuff down your neck
scarf: goes around your neck

HTH.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
charles
2021-05-06 15:08:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVS
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.
And get fat on it.
Datestamped half-dozen boxes of eggs are available in
every UK supermarket. It's a common, unrefrigerated,
convenient way to buy really fresh eggs.
Date-stamped refrigerated half-dozen boxes of eggs are probably
available in every U.S. supermarket. I buy one or two a year.
We buy more like a dozen eggs a week.
There were two things about eggs that I found different when I moved
from Canada to the UK: people seem to prefer buying eggs by the
half-dozen rather than by the dozen, and a standard breakfast serving
has just a single egg.
some years ago, I was stay with friends in a small hotel in Yorkshire.
Breakfast arrived and one of ladies was outraged that the men were served
with 2 eggs while she only got one, The next two days, she got two.
Post by HVS
WIWAL, I'd have been quite taken aback if served a single egg -- it
was almost like there was some rule that required eggs to be served
in pairs.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-06 16:13:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVS
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.
And get fat on it.
Datestamped half-dozen boxes of eggs are available in
every UK supermarket. It's a common, unrefrigerated,
convenient way to buy really fresh eggs.
Date-stamped refrigerated half-dozen boxes of eggs are probably
available in every U.S. supermarket. I buy one or two a year.
We buy more like a dozen eggs a week.
There were two things about eggs that I found different when I moved
from Canada to the UK: people seem to prefer buying eggs by the
half-dozen rather than by the dozen, and a standard breakfast serving
has just a single egg.
WIWAL, I'd have been quite taken aback if served a single egg -- it
was almost like there was some rule that required eggs to be served
in pairs.
The B&B in Munich _began_ every breakfast with a lone, (disgustingly)
soft-boiled egg sitting on an egg cup. It was then followed by plate after
plate of meats (cold and hot), cheeses, and breads of all kinds. By the second
day, I asked her not to bring the egg. _Plus_ the conference took us to
both lunch and dinner in nice downtown restaurants.
Quinn C
2021-05-06 23:57:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVS
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
Post by Joy Beeson
On Tue, 4 May 2021 13:05:48 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
I've known elderly people who will only buy eggs a half-dozen at a time.
That's because we eat only half as much as we used to.
And get fat on it.
Datestamped half-dozen boxes of eggs are available in
every UK supermarket. It's a common, unrefrigerated,
convenient way to buy really fresh eggs.
Date-stamped refrigerated half-dozen boxes of eggs are probably
available in every U.S. supermarket. I buy one or two a year.
We buy more like a dozen eggs a week.
There were two things about eggs that I found different when I moved
from Canada to the UK: people seem to prefer buying eggs by the
half-dozen rather than by the dozen, and a standard breakfast serving
has just a single egg.
WIWAL, I'd have been quite taken aback if served a single egg -- it
was almost like there was some rule that required eggs to be served
in pairs.
The way I grew up, it was a single egg on Saturday, the one day a week
when we had eggs for breakfast. Most of the eggs (bought in cases of 10
or occasionally 30) went into dinners and cakes.

The most common form I as an adult have eggs for breakfast is as
pancakes - two eggs make pancakes for three breakfasts.
--
I'll call you the next time I pass through your star system.
-- Commander William T. Riker
Ross Clark
2021-05-04 02:34:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-04 14:06:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
It means that there is no sense of "charity" to which a metaphor
about its temperature can be applied.

It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead. It's just a meaningless string of words like
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Ross Clark
2021-05-05 00:31:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
It means that there is no sense of "charity" to which a metaphor
about its temperature can be applied.
That is not how many people see it:

"The phrase (as) cold as charity refers to the perfunctory, unfeeling
manner in which acts of charity are often done, and public charities
administered." (wordhistories.net)

"An ironic reference to the cold-hearted nature of much so-called
charity, which should naturally be warm." (en.wiktionary.com)
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this expression
tell you that?

It's just a meaningless string of words like
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Stefan Ram
2021-05-05 00:44:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
"An ironic reference to the cold-hearted nature of much so-called
charity, which should naturally be warm." (en.wiktionary.com)
Maybe Bob Dylan refers to this in "The Ballad of Frankie Lee
and Judas Priest". Frankie Lee needed money one day, and
Judas quickly pulled out a roll of tens. But then Frankie's
head began to spin, because of

|the cold eyes of Judas on him

. Harry Harlow famously found that monkeys preferred cloth
mothers to wire mothers. When only the wire mother had food,
the babies came to the wire mother to feed and immediately
returned to cling to the cloth surrogate.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-05 13:16:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
It means that there is no sense of "charity" to which a metaphor
about its temperature can be applied.
"The phrase (as) cold as charity refers to the perfunctory, unfeeling
manner in which acts of charity are often done, and public charities
administered." (wordhistories.net)
"An ironic reference to the cold-hearted nature of much so-called
charity, which should naturally be warm." (en.wiktionary.com)
So they _don't_ see it as an allusion to Matt 24:12? Q.E.D.
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this expression
tell you that?
The latest one was dated 1833, wasn't it?

I never encountered the expression before this thread. (Of course
I don't read the sort of literary fiction in which it might occasionally
still appear.)
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's just a meaningless string of words like
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
The _individual words_ "kith" and "fro" occurs nowhere else.
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Ross Clark
2021-05-05 21:42:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
It means that there is no sense of "charity" to which a metaphor
about its temperature can be applied.
"The phrase (as) cold as charity refers to the perfunctory, unfeeling
manner in which acts of charity are often done, and public charities
administered." (wordhistories.net)
"An ironic reference to the cold-hearted nature of much so-called
charity, which should naturally be warm." (en.wiktionary.com)
So they _don't_ see it as an allusion to Matt 24:12? Q.E.D.
That is _not_ what you said you meant by "dead". The above quotations
show that, for many people, "charity" in its common present-day sense
_is_ something to which a temperature simile can be applied.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this expression
tell you that?
The latest one was dated 1833, wasn't it?
I never encountered the expression before this thread. (Of course
I don't read the sort of literary fiction in which it might occasionally
still appear.)
How would either the limitations of your personal experience or the
dating of a selection of examples constitute evidence as to the
expression's origin?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's just a meaningless string of words like
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
The _individual words_ "kith" and "fro" occurs nowhere else.
How does that fact render the expressions meaningless?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-06 16:09:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
It means that there is no sense of "charity" to which a metaphor
about its temperature can be applied.
"The phrase (as) cold as charity refers to the perfunctory, unfeeling
manner in which acts of charity are often done, and public charities
administered." (wordhistories.net)
"An ironic reference to the cold-hearted nature of much so-called
charity, which should naturally be warm." (en.wiktionary.com)
So they _don't_ see it as an allusion to Matt 24:12? Q.E.D.
That is _not_ what you said you meant by "dead". The above quotations
show that, for many people, "charity" in its common present-day sense
_is_ something to which a temperature simile can be applied.
I see no one using "cold as charity" later than 1833.
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this expression
tell you that?
The latest one was dated 1833, wasn't it?
I never encountered the expression before this thread. (Of course
I don't read the sort of literary fiction in which it might occasionally
still appear.)
How would either the limitations of your personal experience or the
dating of a selection of examples constitute evidence as to the
expression's origin?
Has anyone demonstrated a connection?
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's just a meaningless string of words like
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
The _individual words_ "kith" and "fro" occurs nowhere else.
How does that fact render the expressions meaningless?
Jeez. The EXPRESION is not meaningless; it is an idiom. The
STRING OF WORDS is meaningless.
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Ross Clark
2021-05-06 23:31:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
It means that there is no sense of "charity" to which a metaphor
about its temperature can be applied.
"The phrase (as) cold as charity refers to the perfunctory, unfeeling
manner in which acts of charity are often done, and public charities
administered." (wordhistories.net)
"An ironic reference to the cold-hearted nature of much so-called
charity, which should naturally be warm." (en.wiktionary.com)
So they _don't_ see it as an allusion to Matt 24:12? Q.E.D.
That is _not_ what you said you meant by "dead". The above quotations
show that, for many people, "charity" in its common present-day sense
_is_ something to which a temperature simile can be applied.
I see no one using "cold as charity" later than 1833.
That's by your own choice.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this expression
tell you that?
The latest one was dated 1833, wasn't it?
I never encountered the expression before this thread. (Of course
I don't read the sort of literary fiction in which it might occasionally
still appear.)
How would either the limitations of your personal experience or the
dating of a selection of examples constitute evidence as to the
expression's origin?
Has anyone demonstrated a connection?
I thought the linked article did quite a good job. What more would you
require?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's just a meaningless string of words like
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
The _individual words_ "kith" and "fro" occurs nowhere else.
How does that fact render the expressions meaningless?
Jeez. The EXPRESION is not meaningless; it is an idiom. The
STRING OF WORDS is meaningless.
A very peculiar way of looking at things. The "string of words" _is_ an
expression, which has a meaning. _One_ of the words in each expression
does not occur elsewhere, and hence could be described as "meaningless".

This is not the case with "cold as charity".
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
[The speaker of the expression was describing the temperature in the
great hall of a country house. ]
A singularly inapt image.
Quinn C
2021-05-07 16:56:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this expression
tell you that?
The latest one was dated 1833, wasn't it?
I never encountered the expression before this thread. (Of course
I don't read the sort of literary fiction in which it might occasionally
still appear.)
How would either the limitations of your personal experience or the
dating of a selection of examples constitute evidence as to the
expression's origin?
Has anyone demonstrated a connection?
I thought the linked article did quite a good job. What more would you
require?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's just a meaningless string of words like
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
The _individual words_ "kith" and "fro" occurs nowhere else.
How does that fact render the expressions meaningless?
Jeez. The EXPRESION is not meaningless; it is an idiom. The
STRING OF WORDS is meaningless.
A very peculiar way of looking at things. The "string of words" _is_ an
expression, which has a meaning. _One_ of the words in each expression
does not occur elsewhere, and hence could be described as "meaningless".
This is not the case with "cold as charity".
The word we're looking for may be "opaque". The expression has a
meaning, but people use it without an understanding of how the meaning
of the expression arises from the meaning of the words in it. In this
case, "cold" still contributes its usual meaning, but it's not clear
what "charity" is doing in the idiom, so "charity" could be thought of
as "meaningless" in context, as a decoration or stuffing.

My issue is how the interpretation "acts of charity continue, but the
heart is not in it" arose. That seems a rather modern interpretation of
"charity" to me. I would never read that from the Bible verse. I'd
assume it says that the heart of people grows cold and they don't help
each other any more. I also can't read from the quotations on the
wordhistories.net page where this turned (assuming that it did.)
--
Nancy had bitten her tongue to keep from asking any questions.
She was deeply afraid that Lundy would attempt to answer them,
and then her head might actually explode.
-- Seanan McGuire, Every Heart a Doorway
CDB
2021-05-07 17:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that
it comes from Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this
expression tell you that?
The latest one was dated 1833, wasn't it? I never encountered
the expression before this thread. (Of course I don't read
the sort of literary fiction in which it might occasionally
still appear.)
How would either the limitations of your personal experience or
the dating of a selection of examples constitute evidence as to
the expression's origin?
Has anyone demonstrated a connection?
I thought the linked article did quite a good job. What more would
you require?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's just a meaningless string of words like "kith and
kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
The _individual words_ "kith" and "fro" occurs nowhere else.
How does that fact render the expressions meaningless?
Jeez. The EXPRESION is not meaningless; it is an idiom. The
STRING OF WORDS is meaningless.
A very peculiar way of looking at things. The "string of words"
_is_ an expression, which has a meaning. _One_ of the words in each
expression does not occur elsewhere, and hence could be described
as "meaningless".
This is not the case with "cold as charity".
The word we're looking for may be "opaque". The expression has a
meaning, but people use it without an understanding of how the
meaning of the expression arises from the meaning of the words in it.
In this case, "cold" still contributes its usual meaning, but it's
not clear what "charity" is doing in the idiom, so "charity" could be
thought of as "meaningless" in context, as a decoration or stuffing.
My issue is how the interpretation "acts of charity continue, but
the heart is not in it" arose. That seems a rather modern
interpretation of "charity" to me. I would never read that from the
Bible verse. I'd assume it says that the heart of people grows cold
and they don't help each other any more. I also can't read from the
quotations on the wordhistories.net page where this turned (assuming
that it did.)
I think the origin of the phrase is a cynical reference to the biblical
verse, intended to mock the hypocrisy of some Christians. It must have
come into use at a time when many people would still have recognised the
reference, and "charity" had already come to mean alms-giving. Weren't
the poor-houses considered works of charity?

Also from Matthew, not originally in a Christian context:

6:1 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them:
otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.

2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before
thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that
they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right
hand doeth:
Jerry Friedman
2021-05-07 17:49:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that
it comes from Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this
expression tell you that?
The latest one was dated 1833, wasn't it? I never encountered
the expression before this thread. (Of course I don't read
the sort of literary fiction in which it might occasionally
still appear.)
How would either the limitations of your personal experience or
the dating of a selection of examples constitute evidence as to
the expression's origin?
Has anyone demonstrated a connection?
I thought the linked article did quite a good job. What more would
you require?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's just a meaningless string of words like "kith and
kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
The _individual words_ "kith" and "fro" occurs nowhere else.
How does that fact render the expressions meaningless?
Jeez. The EXPRESION is not meaningless; it is an idiom. The
STRING OF WORDS is meaningless.
A very peculiar way of looking at things. The "string of words"
_is_ an expression, which has a meaning. _One_ of the words in each
expression does not occur elsewhere, and hence could be described
as "meaningless".
This is not the case with "cold as charity".
The word we're looking for may be "opaque". The expression has a
meaning, but people use it without an understanding of how the
meaning of the expression arises from the meaning of the words in it.
In this case, "cold" still contributes its usual meaning, but it's
not clear what "charity" is doing in the idiom, so "charity" could be
thought of as "meaningless" in context, as a decoration or stuffing.
My issue is how the interpretation "acts of charity continue, but
the heart is not in it" arose. That seems a rather modern
interpretation of "charity" to me. I would never read that from the
Bible verse. I'd assume it says that the heart of people grows cold
and they don't help each other any more. I also can't read from the
quotations on the wordhistories.net page where this turned (assuming
that it did.)
I think the origin of the phrase is a cynical reference to the biblical
verse, intended to mock the hypocrisy of some Christians. It must have
come into use at a time when many people would still have recognised the
reference, and "charity" had already come to mean alms-giving. Weren't
the poor-houses considered works of charity?
otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
2 Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before
thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that
they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
3 But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right
I'd guess that it started as a whimsical reference to a quotation, as when
one says that a certain pianist's left hand doesn't know what their right
hand is doing, but the potential for mocking hypocrisy was probably
recognized early, maybe in the first use.

I'm sure there are other examples of "as X as Y" where the only connection
between X and Y is a quotation. I just can't think of them at the moment.
--
Jerry Friedman
Stefan Ram
2021-05-07 18:24:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
I'm sure there are other examples of "as X as Y" where the only connection
between X and Y is a quotation. I just can't think of them at the moment.
In the works of Bob Dylan one (Warmuth) can find many hidden
quotations. For example, when Dylan recalled how he recorded
"Shooting Star", he writes: "It would have been good to have
a horn man or two on it, a throbbing hum that mingled into
the music.". H. G. Wells, in "The First Men in The Moon", wrote,

|Then began a vast throbbing hum that mingled with the music.

. I think "as cold as", and then something that is actually
cold, like, say, "ice", would be very boring and redundant.
Ross Clark
2021-05-07 21:52:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this expression
tell you that?
The latest one was dated 1833, wasn't it?
I never encountered the expression before this thread. (Of course
I don't read the sort of literary fiction in which it might occasionally
still appear.)
How would either the limitations of your personal experience or the
dating of a selection of examples constitute evidence as to the
expression's origin?
Has anyone demonstrated a connection?
I thought the linked article did quite a good job. What more would you
require?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's just a meaningless string of words like
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
The _individual words_ "kith" and "fro" occurs nowhere else.
How does that fact render the expressions meaningless?
Jeez. The EXPRESION is not meaningless; it is an idiom. The
STRING OF WORDS is meaningless.
A very peculiar way of looking at things. The "string of words" _is_ an
expression, which has a meaning. _One_ of the words in each expression
does not occur elsewhere, and hence could be described as "meaningless".
This is not the case with "cold as charity".
The word we're looking for may be "opaque". The expression has a
meaning, but people use it without an understanding of how the meaning
of the expression arises from the meaning of the words in it. In this
case, "cold" still contributes its usual meaning, but it's not clear
what "charity" is doing in the idiom, so "charity" could be thought of
as "meaningless" in context, as a decoration or stuffing.
My issue is how the interpretation "acts of charity continue, but the
heart is not in it" arose. That seems a rather modern interpretation of
"charity" to me. I would never read that from the Bible verse. I'd
assume it says that the heart of people grows cold and they don't help
each other any more. I also can't read from the quotations on the
wordhistories.net page where this turned (assuming that it did.)
The meaning of "charity" has changed. (I remember this being explained
repeatedly in connection with the "faith, hope and charity" of I
Corinthians 13:13.) Originally it meant something like "love". But Jesus
says that in times to come it will grow cold. On that basis somebody
coined the simile "cold as charity". It became a stock simile. In modern
times the "love" sense of charity has receded in favour of the sense of
"organized public alms-giving" (or whatever you wish). Once this
happens, the word "charity" in the simile would, as you suggest, become
opaque (like the comparanda in "dead as a doornail" or "happy as
Larry"). However, some people have devised a new interpretation related
to the common modern sense, as exemplified by the quotes I posted
elsewhere in this thread.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-05-08 12:43:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
The meaning of "charity" has changed. (I remember this being explained
repeatedly in connection with the "faith, hope and charity" of I
Corinthians 13:13.) Originally it meant something like "love". But Jesus
says that in times to come it will grow cold. On that basis somebody
coined the simile "cold as charity". It became a stock simile. In modern
times the "love" sense of charity has receded in favour of the sense of
"organized public alms-giving" (or whatever you wish). Once this
happens, the word "charity" in the simile would, as you suggest, become
opaque (like the comparanda in "dead as a doornail" or "happy as
Larry"). However, some people have devised a new interpretation related
to the common modern sense, as exemplified by the quotes I posted
elsewhere in this thread.
Is Larry a clam?
S K
2021-05-08 15:22:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
The meaning of "charity" has changed. (I remember this being explained
repeatedly in connection with the "faith, hope and charity" of I
Corinthians 13:13.) Originally it meant something like "love". But Jesus
says that in times to come it will grow cold. On that basis somebody
coined the simile "cold as charity". It became a stock simile. In modern
times the "love" sense of charity has receded in favour of the sense of
"organized public alms-giving" (or whatever you wish). Once this
happens, the word "charity" in the simile would, as you suggest, become
opaque (like the comparanda in "dead as a doornail" or "happy as
Larry"). However, some people have devised a new interpretation related
to the common modern sense, as exemplified by the quotes I posted
elsewhere in this thread.
Is Larry a clam?
no silly - Larry is a bug in a rug.
Quinn C
2021-05-08 14:54:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this expression
tell you that?
The latest one was dated 1833, wasn't it?
I never encountered the expression before this thread. (Of course
I don't read the sort of literary fiction in which it might occasionally
still appear.)
How would either the limitations of your personal experience or the
dating of a selection of examples constitute evidence as to the
expression's origin?
Has anyone demonstrated a connection?
I thought the linked article did quite a good job. What more would you
require?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's just a meaningless string of words like
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
The _individual words_ "kith" and "fro" occurs nowhere else.
How does that fact render the expressions meaningless?
Jeez. The EXPRESION is not meaningless; it is an idiom. The
STRING OF WORDS is meaningless.
A very peculiar way of looking at things. The "string of words" _is_ an
expression, which has a meaning. _One_ of the words in each expression
does not occur elsewhere, and hence could be described as "meaningless".
This is not the case with "cold as charity".
The word we're looking for may be "opaque". The expression has a
meaning, but people use it without an understanding of how the meaning
of the expression arises from the meaning of the words in it. In this
case, "cold" still contributes its usual meaning, but it's not clear
what "charity" is doing in the idiom, so "charity" could be thought of
as "meaningless" in context, as a decoration or stuffing.
My issue is how the interpretation "acts of charity continue, but the
heart is not in it" arose. That seems a rather modern interpretation of
"charity" to me. I would never read that from the Bible verse. I'd
assume it says that the heart of people grows cold and they don't help
each other any more. I also can't read from the quotations on the
wordhistories.net page where this turned (assuming that it did.)
The meaning of "charity" has changed. (I remember this being explained
repeatedly in connection with the "faith, hope and charity" of I
Corinthians 13:13.) Originally it meant something like "love".
The original has /agape/. A commentary I quickly pulled up noted that
"love" is too general, and "charity" too narrow a translation. That
probably referes to the modern usage of "charity".
Post by Ross Clark
But Jesus
says that in times to come it will grow cold. On that basis somebody
coined the simile "cold as charity".
Originally, this should have been, or at least meant "cold as charity in
times of iniquity (lawlessness)". But these things have a tendency to
get shortened.
Post by Ross Clark
It became a stock simile. In modern
times the "love" sense of charity has receded in favour of the sense of
"organized public alms-giving" (or whatever you wish). Once this
happens, the word "charity" in the simile would, as you suggest, become
opaque (like the comparanda in "dead as a doornail" or "happy as
Larry"). However, some people have devised a new interpretation related
to the common modern sense, as exemplified by the quotes I posted
elsewhere in this thread.
Ok, that sounds like a reasonable hypothesis, where all the pieces fit
together.
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Jerry Friedman
2021-05-08 20:56:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It means that the (dubious in the first place) claim that it comes from
Matt 24:12 is utterly dead.
How exactly does a selection of examples of the use of this expression
tell you that?
The latest one was dated 1833, wasn't it?
I never encountered the expression before this thread. (Of course
I don't read the sort of literary fiction in which it might occasionally
still appear.)
How would either the limitations of your personal experience or the
dating of a selection of examples constitute evidence as to the
expression's origin?
Has anyone demonstrated a connection?
I thought the linked article did quite a good job. What more would you
require?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's just a meaningless string of words like
"kith and kin" or "to and fro."
Those expressions are not in any sense meaningless. '
The _individual words_ "kith" and "fro" occurs nowhere else.
How does that fact render the expressions meaningless?
Jeez. The EXPRESION is not meaningless; it is an idiom. The
STRING OF WORDS is meaningless.
A very peculiar way of looking at things. The "string of words" _is_ an
expression, which has a meaning. _One_ of the words in each expression
does not occur elsewhere, and hence could be described as "meaningless".
This is not the case with "cold as charity".
The word we're looking for may be "opaque". The expression has a
meaning, but people use it without an understanding of how the meaning
of the expression arises from the meaning of the words in it. In this
case, "cold" still contributes its usual meaning, but it's not clear
what "charity" is doing in the idiom, so "charity" could be thought of
as "meaningless" in context, as a decoration or stuffing.
My issue is how the interpretation "acts of charity continue, but the
heart is not in it" arose. That seems a rather modern interpretation of
"charity" to me. I would never read that from the Bible verse. I'd
assume it says that the heart of people grows cold and they don't help
each other any more. I also can't read from the quotations on the
wordhistories.net page where this turned (assuming that it did.)
The meaning of "charity" has changed. (I remember this being explained
repeatedly in connection with the "faith, hope and charity" of I
Corinthians 13:13.) Originally it meant something like "love". But Jesus
says that in times to come it will grow cold. On that basis somebody
coined the simile "cold as charity".
The OED has "frozen as Charity" from Southey in 1795. Actually, it might
specifically refer to organized alms. In that poem, the speaker
apostrophizes "The Soldier's Wife":

Ne'er will thy husband return from the war again,
Cold is thy heart, and as frozen as Charity!
Cold are thy children. Now God be thy comforter!
Post by Ross Clark
It became a stock simile. In modern
times the "love" sense of charity has receded in favour of the sense of
"organized public alms-giving" (or whatever you wish). Once this
happens, the word "charity" in the simile would, as you suggest, become
opaque (like the comparanda in "dead as a doornail" or "happy as
Larry"). However, some people have devised a new interpretation related
to the common modern sense, as exemplified by the quotes I posted
elsewhere in this thread.
I don't think the "faith hope and" sense has to have receded for people to
connect "cold as charity" to organized eleemosynary activity. it can be
a witty play on two senses, as in "nutty as a fruitcake". One can even
use two etymologically unrelated senses in this way--Mack recently used
the well-known phrase "he lies like a rug". I might compare "Padgett will
cope. He always does. Like charity, he never fails." (/Gaudy Night/,
Chapter V.)
--
Jerry Friedman
S K
2021-05-06 22:22:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross Clark
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
I don't see how one gets from that to that obscure expression
(which I've never heard, either).
Post by occam
Therein lay my second surprise. Cynicism in the Bible? What next.
Read the entire passage. It's part of what are known as the "hard
words," Jesus''s last sermon (the one that begins with "wars, and
rumors of wars"), which because it seems so at odds with his
message as generally transmitted by the early church, is taken
to be among the few "ipsissima verba" -- things he might actually
have said -- that were remembered and later recorded by some
who where there.
Post by occam
https://wordhistories.net/2016/12/27/cold-as-charity/
That bunch of examples shows that by 1833 -- the latest instance --
it was as dead a simile as any simile can be.
Not sure what you mean by "dead" here. It's still known and used, even
if people's understanding of it has changed.
stop bullshitting Rossy baby.

'Colder than a witch's tit' seems more current.
Stefan Ram
2021-05-02 18:41:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by occam
I'd never heard the expression 'as cold as charity' before. Hence I was
surprised to discover that it originally alluded to the gospel of
Matthew, 24:12.
In the recent (2020) "literal" translation
(of the Covenant Christian Coalition):

|11 And many false prophets will arise,
| and will lead many astray;
|12 and because of the abounding of the lawlessness,
| the love of the many will become cold;
|13 but he who endured to the end,
| he will be saved;

.
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