Discussion:
McDonalds' language error
(too old to reply)
Steve Hayes
2010-01-29 07:11:43 UTC
Permalink
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47

London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound.
The American fast food giant's blunder has stirred up some incensed online
debate about English currency slang, blaming executives in the US for not
properly researching the UK market before broadcasting the advert. Some
customers asked McDonald's to either correct or withdraw the advert, or allow
them to purchase items on the Saver Menu for a true bob, or five pence.

http://www.ofm.co.za/news.asp?nid=6186
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Fred
2010-01-29 07:31:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound.
The American fast food giant's blunder has stirred up some incensed online
debate about English currency slang, blaming executives in the US for not
properly researching the UK market before broadcasting the advert. Some
customers asked McDonald's to either correct or withdraw the advert, or allow
them to purchase items on the Saver Menu for a true bob, or five pence.
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea

or that's how it was when I went to school
Mark Brader
2010-01-29 07:41:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
...to purchase items on the Saver Menu for a true bob, or five pence.
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
This will no doubt be the first of six independent followups noting that
12 old pence (12d.) = 5 new pence (5p), and that shilling (bob) coins
continued in circulation for years after decimalization as 5p coins.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "What's fair got to do with it? It's going
***@vex.net | to happen." -- Lawrence of Arabia
Pekka Numminen
2010-01-29 09:06:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?

If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
James Hogg
2010-01-29 09:15:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pekka Numminen
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence? 12 pennies = 1
shilling (one bob) 2 shillings = a florin (2 bob) 240 pennies = 1
pound (1 quid) 20 shillings = 1 pound 21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
The system in your own country was once just as complicated. You're
lucky you never had to calculate in "dukater" or "skilling banco", or
to convert from "riksdaler specie" to "riksdaler riksmynt".
--
James
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
2010-01-29 13:18:42 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 01:06:24 -0800 (PST), Pekka Numminen
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
One explanation that I have seen for the use of a 21 shilling guinea is
that it was used in pricing items sold at auction. If the buyer paid N
guineas the auction house kept N shillings and the seller received N
pounds (20 x N shillings).
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2010-01-29 16:34:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
Plenty of traditional systems were complicated. For example,

12 pies (or 4 paise) = 1 anna
16 annas = 1 rupee
10000000 rupees = 1 lakh
100 lakhs = 1 crore

As James has pointed out, your own country was no exception.
--
athel
musika
2010-01-29 19:57:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
Plenty of traditional systems were complicated. For example,
12 pies (or 4 paise) = 1 anna
16 annas = 1 rupee
10000000 rupees = 1 lakh
100 lakhs = 1 crore
As James has pointed out, your own country was no exception.
Hmm. I thought a lakh was 100,000 not 10 million. Was there a point when it
was?
--
Ray
UK
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
2010-01-29 20:44:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
Plenty of traditional systems were complicated. For example,
12 pies (or 4 paise) = 1 anna
16 annas = 1 rupee
10000000 rupees = 1 lakh
100 lakhs = 1 crore
As James has pointed out, your own country was no exception.
Hmm. I thought a lakh was 100,000 not 10 million. Was there a point when it
was?
One lakh is one hundred thousand (100,000). One crore is 10 million or
100 lakh (10,000,000).
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
musika
2010-01-29 21:38:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
Plenty of traditional systems were complicated. For example,
12 pies (or 4 paise) = 1 anna
16 annas = 1 rupee
10000000 rupees = 1 lakh
100 lakhs = 1 crore
As James has pointed out, your own country was no exception.
Hmm. I thought a lakh was 100,000 not 10 million. Was there a point
when it was?
One lakh is one hundred thousand (100,000). One crore is 10 million or
100 lakh (10,000,000).
Yes, that's why I questioned AC-B's post.
--
Ray
UK
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2010-01-29 21:19:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
Plenty of traditional systems were complicated. For example,
12 pies (or 4 paise) = 1 anna
16 annas = 1 rupee
10000000 rupees = 1 lakh
100 lakhs = 1 crore
As James has pointed out, your own country was no exception.
Hmm. I thought a lakh was 100,000 not 10 million. Was there a point when it
was?
That's what I thought as well, but Wikipedia thought otherwise (or else
I read it wrongly) , and, as we know, Wikipedia is 100% accurate.
--
athel
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
2010-01-29 21:44:44 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:19:59 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by musika
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
Plenty of traditional systems were complicated. For example,
12 pies (or 4 paise) = 1 anna
16 annas = 1 rupee
10000000 rupees = 1 lakh
100 lakhs = 1 crore
As James has pointed out, your own country was no exception.
Hmm. I thought a lakh was 100,000 not 10 million. Was there a point when it
was?
That's what I thought as well, but Wikipedia thought otherwise (or else
I read it wrongly) , and, as we know, Wikipedia is 100% accurate.
Possibly a misreading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakh

A lakh or lac (English pronunciation: /?læk/ or /?l??k/) is a unit
in the Indian numbering system equal to one hundred thousand
(100,000; 10^5)
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Jerry Friedman
2010-01-29 22:22:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
Plenty of traditional systems were complicated. For example,
12 pies (or 4 paise) = 1 anna
16 annas = 1 rupee
10000000 rupees = 1 lakh
100 lakhs = 1 crore
But that doesn't have the master touch of pounds and guineas.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
As James has pointed out, your own country was no exception.
Former Finnish money is another addition to the list of fields I know
absolutely nothing about.

--
Jerry Friedman
the Omrud
2010-01-29 22:44:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
Plenty of traditional systems were complicated. For example,
12 pies (or 4 paise) = 1 anna
16 annas = 1 rupee
10000000 rupees = 1 lakh
100 lakhs = 1 crore
As James has pointed out, your own country was no exception.
HHG:

Monetary units

Although there are three major units, (The Altarian Dollar, the Flainian
Pobble Bead and the Triganic Pu) none of them count. The Altarian Dollar
has recently collapsed, the Flainian Pobble Bead is only exchangeble for
other Flainian Pobble Beads, and the Triganic Pu has its own very
special problems. Its exchange rate of eight Ningis to one Pu is simple
enough, but since a Ningi is a triangular rubber coin six thousand eight
hundred miles along each side, no one has ever collected enough to own
one Pu. Ningis are not negotiable currency, because the Galactibanks
refuse to deal in fiddling small change.
--
David
Default User
2010-01-29 23:14:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by the Omrud
Monetary units
Although there are three major units, (The Altarian Dollar, the
Flainian Pobble Bead and the Triganic Pu) none of them count. The
Altarian Dollar has recently collapsed
Hope this won't lead to a panic.



Brian
--
Day 361 of the "no grouchy usenet posts" project
Fred
2010-01-29 20:08:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin or note of
that denomination. It was a term used by pretentious retailers to show they
were a cut above Joe Bloggs down the road who charged a pound. It was used
mainly in the 18th century, and survived into the 19th century in a limited
way.
HVS
2010-01-29 20:32:46 UTC
Permalink
.com...
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a
word meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22
shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin
or note of that denomination. It was a term used by pretentious
retailers to show they were a cut above Joe Bloggs down the road
who charged a pound. It was used mainly in the 18th century, and
survived into the 19th century in a limited way.
I believe guineas are still used today for selling racehorses.

[bings] Ah; here we are:

http://www.stuartwilliamsracing.co.uk/forsale.asp
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
2010-01-29 20:48:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVS
.com...
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a
word meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22
shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin
or note of that denomination. It was a term used by pretentious
retailers to show they were a cut above Joe Bloggs down the road
who charged a pound. It was used mainly in the 18th century, and
survived into the 19th century in a limited way.
I believe guineas are still used today for selling racehorses.
http://www.stuartwilliamsracing.co.uk/forsale.asp
Certain horseraces have guineas in the name: 2000 Guineas and 1000
Guineas. Those amounts were the original prize money for the winner.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
HVS
2010-01-29 23:27:07 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 20:32:46 GMT, HVS
Post by HVS
ps .com...
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for
a word meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22
shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin
or note of that denomination. It was a term used by
pretentious retailers to show they were a cut above Joe Bloggs
down the road who charged a pound. It was used mainly in the
18th century, and survived into the 19th century in a limited
way.
I believe guineas are still used today for selling racehorses.
http://www.stuartwilliamsracing.co.uk/forsale.asp
Certain horseraces have guineas in the name: 2000 Guineas and
1000 Guineas. Those amounts were the original prize money for
the winner.
Indeed; I find it intriguing, though, that in addition to oddities
like that -- historical continuity of fixed events -- a whole
trading industry still quotes prices in an abandoned measure.

It's kind of like if parish land surveyors were still using acres,
roods, and perches.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Steve Hayes
2010-01-30 03:28:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVS
I believe guineas are still used today for selling racehorses.
And sometimes as prizes when they win.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
tony cooper
2010-01-29 20:33:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin or note of
that denomination. It was a term used by pretentious retailers to show they
were a cut above Joe Bloggs down the road who charged a pound. It was used
mainly in the 18th century, and survived into the 19th century in a limited
way.
I remember window-shopping in the UK on my first trip (1969) and
seeing prices shown on cards where the number was large and prominent
and the guinea reference small and almost unnoticeable. It seemed to
me to be a cheap trick to add 12 cents times the number to the unwary
tourist shopper's bill. I was multiplying the number shown by US
$2.40 to arrive at the cost to me.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2010-01-29 21:26:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by tony cooper
Post by Fred
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin or note of
that denomination. It was a term used by pretentious retailers to show they
were a cut above Joe Bloggs down the road who charged a pound. It was used
mainly in the 18th century, and survived into the 19th century in a limited
way.
I remember window-shopping in the UK on my first trip (1969) and
seeing prices shown on cards where the number was large and prominent
and the guinea reference small and almost unnoticeable. It seemed to
me to be a cheap trick to add 12 cents times the number to the unwary
tourist shopper's bill. I was multiplying the number shown by US
$2.40 to arrive at the cost to me.
We have the same problem with sales tax in the US, where you always
have to pay more than the displayed price.
--
athel
Robert Bannister
2010-01-30 02:02:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by tony cooper
Post by Fred
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin or note of
that denomination. It was a term used by pretentious retailers to show they
were a cut above Joe Bloggs down the road who charged a pound. It was used
mainly in the 18th century, and survived into the 19th century in a limited
way.
I remember window-shopping in the UK on my first trip (1969) and
seeing prices shown on cards where the number was large and prominent
and the guinea reference small and almost unnoticeable. It seemed to
me to be a cheap trick to add 12 cents times the number to the unwary
tourist shopper's bill. I was multiplying the number shown by US
$2.40 to arrive at the cost to me.
I consider tipping to be in the same category.
--
Rob Bannister
Zhang Dawei
2010-01-29 20:59:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin or
note of that denomination. It was a term used by pretentious
retailers to show they were a cut above Joe Bloggs down the road who
charged a pound. It was used mainly in the 18th century, and
survived into the 19th century in a limited way.
An apochyphal trick was told concerning a shop that used to advertise
sales goods thus:

"SALE: Was 30 pounds! Now 29 Guineas!"
--
Zhang Dawei: Stoke-on-Trent, UK.
Please use the Reply-To field for my email address, which is certain
to remain valid for 2 weeks from the posting of this message.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2010-01-29 21:24:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin or note of
that denomination. It was a term used by pretentious retailers to show they
were a cut above Joe Bloggs down the road who charged a pound. It was used
mainly in the 18th century, and survived into the 19th century in a limited
way.
It survived a lot longer than that. Prices were still sometimes quoted
in guineas when I were a lad, and as late as 1975 I was paid a fee of
£15.75 as an external examiner at Oxford University, which struck me as
a very odd sum until I expressed it in guineas.
--
athel
James Silverton
2010-01-29 21:35:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22
shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin or note
of that denomination. It was a term used by pretentious retailers to
show they were a cut above Joe Bloggs down the road who charged a
pound. It was used mainly in the 18th century, and survived into the
19th century in a limited way.
Oh, I think there were once guinea coins and tailor's and lawyer's bills
were often denominated in guineas long after the coin ceased to exist. I
am told that one could cause confusion to Americans in London in auction
sales by saying "guineas" to up the bid by 5%
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
the Omrud
2010-01-29 22:45:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin or note of
that denomination. It was a term used by pretentious retailers to show they
were a cut above Joe Bloggs down the road who charged a pound. It was used
mainly in the 18th century, and survived into the 19th century in a limited
way.
It survived a lot longer than that. I was perfectly aware of things
being priced in guineas up to the early 60s.
--
David
Fred
2010-01-30 02:46:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin or note of
that denomination. It was a term used by pretentious retailers to show they
were a cut above Joe Bloggs down the road who charged a pound. It was used
mainly in the 18th century, and survived into the 19th century in a limited
way.
It survived a lot longer than that. I was perfectly aware of things being
priced in guineas up to the early 60s.
Yes. Sorry. I meant to say it had survived into the twentieth century.
Evan Kirshenbaum
2010-01-29 23:27:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin or
note of that denomination.
For values of never that exclude 1717-1813, at least according to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinea_coin

which shows pictures of several.
Post by Fred
It was a term used by pretentious retailers to show they were a cut
above Joe Bloggs down the road who charged a pound. It was used
mainly in the 18th century, and survived into the 19th century in a
limited way.
The Wikipedia page has what seems to be a plausible explanation. It
says that the guinea was originally (1663) a gold coin whose value
was, at the time, equivalent to a (troy) pound of silver, and the
difference in value came from the increase in the value of gold
(relative to silver) at the end of the seventeenth century, hitting a
high of 30 shillings (with the dimensions changing to try to keep
equivalence) before being fixed by law at 21 in 1717.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |A little government and a little luck
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |are necessary in life, but only a
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |fool trusts either of them.
| P.J. O'Rourke
***@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Robert Bannister
2010-01-30 02:00:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin or note of
that denomination. It was a term used by pretentious retailers to show they
were a cut above Joe Bloggs down the road who charged a pound. It was used
mainly in the 18th century, and survived into the 19th century in a limited
way.
Oh yes there was. Google will give you several results, but here's one:
http://www.londonmintoffice.org/shop/action/product/107303/2008-Trafalgar-Guinea-Coin.html
--
Rob Bannister
Percival P. Cassidy
2010-01-30 03:30:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
No. It was a term for 21 shillings, but there was never a coin or note of
that denomination. It was a term used by pretentious retailers to show they
were a cut above Joe Bloggs down the road who charged a pound. It was used
mainly in the 18th century, and survived into the 19th century in a limited
way.
I'm sure I remember it from the 1940s and 1950s,

Perce
Robert Bannister
2010-01-30 01:56:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pekka Numminen
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
You couldn't have had a more complicated system, could you?
If 20 shillings were 1 pound, then was there really need for a word
meaning '21 shillings'? Was there a word for '22 shillings', too?
No doubt some coin expert can give us the true history, but I assume
that originally there was no table on the lines of
10 coppers = 1 bronze
10 bronze = 1 silver
10 silver = 1 gold

For a start, the value of the various metals fluctuated wildly (and
still does). Secondly, many mints debased their coinage, but wily
merchants knew which ones to pick. Thirdly, various lords and monarchs,
for a variety of reasons, often suddenly decided to mint a new coin,
which might or might not match up to any existing coinage. So when we
read about groats and marks, pennies and pounds, there is no reason to
believe they fitted the 12 pennies = 1 shilling pattern at all until
more recent times. I'm pretty sure there was a golden guinea coin of
greater value than the golden sovereign - the exact relationship to
silver coins would have been a matter for merchants and bankers.
--
Rob Bannister
Steve Hayes
2010-01-29 10:30:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound.
The American fast food giant's blunder has stirred up some incensed online
debate about English currency slang, blaming executives in the US for not
properly researching the UK market before broadcasting the advert. Some
customers asked McDonald's to either correct or withdraw the advert, or allow
them to purchase items on the Saver Menu for a true bob, or five pence.
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
Twelve OLD pence (12d) became 5 new pence (5p).

The pound was divided into 240 old pence, 100 new pence.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
James Silverton
2010-01-29 13:43:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over
its inaccurate use of the English language. The advert, which
promotes the Pound Saver Menu, begins "the pound, also known as a
bob", a statement which, strictly speaking, is not true.
Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence,
and of far less value than a pound. The American fast food
giant's blunder has stirred up some incensed online debate
about English currency slang, blaming executives in the US
for not properly researching the UK market before
broadcasting the advert. Some customers asked McDonald's to
either correct or withdraw the advert, or allow them to
purchase items on the Saver Menu for a true bob, or five
pence.
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
Wasn't the half crown coin (2 shillings six pence) also called " half a
dollar"?
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
James Hogg
2010-01-29 13:54:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Silverton
McDonalds' language error 27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its
inaccurate use of the English language. The advert, which
promotes the Pound Saver Menu, begins "the pound, also known as a
bob", a statement which, strictly speaking, is not true.
Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound. The American fast food giant's
blunder has stirred up some incensed online debate about English
currency slang, blaming executives in the US for not properly
researching the UK market before broadcasting the advert. Some
customers asked McDonald's to either correct or withdraw the
advert, or allow them to purchase items on the Saver Menu for a
true bob, or five pence.
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence? 12 pennies = 1
shilling (one bob) 2 shillings = a florin (2 bob) 240 pennies = 1
pound (1 quid) 20 shillings = 1 pound 21 shillings = 1 guinea
Wasn't the half crown coin (2 shillings six pence) also called " half
a dollar"?
I remember watching the news on D Day. They showed a (possibly rigged)
scene from a railway station where the staff had evidently been
instructed to deal exclusively in the new money. An old man who refused
to change his ways was trying to buy a 25 p ticket. He said, "Look, the
ticket costs five shillings, I gave you ten bob, so I want a dollar change."
--
James
Robert Bannister
2010-01-30 02:05:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Hogg
Post by James Silverton
McDonalds' language error 27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its
inaccurate use of the English language. The advert, which
promotes the Pound Saver Menu, begins "the pound, also known as a
bob", a statement which, strictly speaking, is not true.
Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound. The American fast food giant's
blunder has stirred up some incensed online debate about English
currency slang, blaming executives in the US for not properly
researching the UK market before broadcasting the advert. Some
customers asked McDonald's to either correct or withdraw the
advert, or allow them to purchase items on the Saver Menu for a
true bob, or five pence.
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence? 12 pennies = 1
shilling (one bob) 2 shillings = a florin (2 bob) 240 pennies = 1
pound (1 quid) 20 shillings = 1 pound 21 shillings = 1 guinea
Wasn't the half crown coin (2 shillings six pence) also called " half
a dollar"?
I remember watching the news on D Day. They showed a (possibly rigged)
scene from a railway station where the staff had evidently been
instructed to deal exclusively in the new money. An old man who refused
to change his ways was trying to buy a 25 p ticket. He said, "Look, the
ticket costs five shillings, I gave you ten bob, so I want a dollar change."
So what's odd about that? That is exactly how we used to talk. A
surprising number of people retained the word "bob" even in Australia
for several years after the change to decimal currency - this was
somewhat easier than in Britain, since 2 shillings became 20 cents and
the coin was and still is the same size.
--
Rob Bannister
Nick Spalding
2010-01-29 15:01:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Silverton
Wasn't the half crown coin (2 shillings six pence) also called " half a
dollar"?
And for some years that was pretty accurate. Wikipedia he say:

"Bretton Woods
See also:Economic history of Britain 1945–1959
In 1940, an agreement with the U.S.A. pegged the pound to the U.S.
dollar at a rate of £1 = $4.03. This rate was maintained through the
Second World War and became part of the Bretton Woods system which
governed post-war exchange rates. Under continuing economic pressure,
and despite months of denials that it would do so, on 19 September 1949
the government devalued the pound by 30.5% to $2.80. The move prompted
several other currencies to be devalued against the dollar."
--
Nick Spalding
BrE/IrE
Bob Martin
2010-01-29 16:01:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nick Spalding
Post by James Silverton
Wasn't the half crown coin (2 shillings six pence) also called " half a
dollar"?
"Bretton Woods
See also:Economic history of Britain 1945ᅵ1959
In 1940, an agreement with the U.S.A. pegged the pound to the U.S.
dollar at a rate of ᅵ1 = $4.03. This rate was maintained through the
Second World War and became part of the Bretton Woods system which
governed post-war exchange rates. Under continuing economic pressure,
and despite months of denials that it would do so, on 19 September 1949
the government devalued the pound by 30.5% to $2.80. The move prompted
several other currencies to be devalued against the dollar."
I spent 1970 in the USA when the exchange rate was £1 = $2.40.
Made mental conversion easy as 1c was 1d.
the Omrud
2010-01-29 22:47:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Silverton
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
Wasn't the half crown coin (2 shillings six pence) also called " half a
Only in the rougher parts of big cities. We would never have used such
common slang.
--
David
Percival P. Cassidy
2010-01-29 15:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
Post by Steve Hayes
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound.
The American fast food giant's blunder has stirred up some incensed online
debate about English currency slang, blaming executives in the US for not
properly researching the UK market before broadcasting the advert. Some
customers asked McDonald's to either correct or withdraw the advert, or
allow them to purchase items on the Saver Menu for a true bob, or five pence.
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
Yes, but twelve "old pennies" = five "new pence"
Post by Fred
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
And when I was going to school in UK, 5/- (5 shillings) was popularly
referred to as "a dollar" (although we were never *taught* that),
apparently because at some point that had been the exchange rate. But it
was still being used long after the official exchange rate had become
7/2d (7 shillings and tuppence) to one US dollar. Similarly, ISTR, "half
a crown" (2/6d -- and there was a coin of that value) could be referred
to as "half a dollar"; there had been a "crown" coin, and one showed up
occasionally, but they were no longer being minted. Long before my time
there was a 4d coin, the groat.

Perce
Cece
2010-01-29 20:13:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Percival P. Cassidy
Post by Fred
Post by Steve Hayes
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound.
The American fast food giant's blunder has stirred up some incensed online
debate about English currency slang, blaming executives in the US for not
properly researching the UK market before broadcasting the advert. Some
customers asked McDonald's to either correct or withdraw the advert, or
allow them to purchase items on the Saver Menu for a true bob, or five pence.
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
Yes, but twelve "old pennies" = five "new pence"
Post by Fred
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
And when I was going to school in UK, 5/- (5 shillings) was popularly
referred to as "a dollar" (although we were never *taught* that),
apparently because at some point that had been the exchange rate. But it
was still being used long after the official exchange rate had become
7/2d (7 shillings and tuppence) to one US dollar. Similarly, ISTR, "half
a crown" (2/6d -- and there was a coin of that value) could be referred
to as "half a dollar"; there had been a "crown" coin, and one showed up
occasionally, but they were no longer being minted. Long before my time
there was a 4d coin, the groat.
Perce
And longer ago than that, there was a halfpenny. And a farthing.
Before that, there was only the penny.
Leslie Danks
2010-01-29 20:40:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cece
Post by Percival P. Cassidy
Post by Fred
Post by Steve Hayes
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound.
The American fast food giant's blunder has stirred up some incensed
online debate about English currency slang, blaming executives in
the US for not properly researching the UK market before
broadcasting the advert. Some customers asked McDonald's to either
correct or withdraw the advert, or allow them to purchase items on
the Saver Menu for a true bob, or five pence.
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
Yes, but twelve "old pennies" = five "new pence"
Post by Fred
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
And when I was going to school in UK, 5/- (5 shillings) was popularly
referred to as "a dollar" (although we were never *taught* that),
apparently because at some point that had been the exchange rate. But
it was still being used long after the official exchange rate had
become 7/2d (7 shillings and tuppence) to one US dollar. Similarly,
ISTR, "half a crown" (2/6d -- and there was a coin of that value) could
be referred to as "half a dollar"; there had been a "crown" coin, and
one showed up occasionally, but they were no longer being minted. Long
before my time there was a 4d coin, the groat.
Perce
And longer ago than that, there was a halfpenny. And a farthing.
Before that, there was only the penny.
And don't forget the (dodecagonal) threepenny bit, which was minted until
1970:

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threepence_%28British_coin%29>
--
Les (BrE)
Zhang Dawei
2010-01-29 21:01:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cece
And longer ago than that, there was a halfpenny. And a farthing.
Before that, there was only the penny.
I recall buying sweets with my brother back in 1959 which we paid for
using farthings.
--
Zhang Dawei: Stoke-on-Trent, UK.
Please use the Reply-To field for my email address, which is certain
to remain valid for 2 weeks from the posting of this message.
Redshade
2010-01-29 23:15:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zhang Dawei
And longer ago than that, there was a halfpenny.  And a farthing.
Before that, there was only the penny.
I recall buying sweets with my brother back in 1959 which we paid for
using farthings.
--
Zhang Dawei: Stoke-on-Trent, UK.
Please use the Reply-To field for my email address, which is certain
to remain valid for 2 weeks from the posting of this message.
I too (being born in 1955)recall spending farthings at the local sweet
shop. These were usually found down the back of old settees or in
hidden jars in granny's cupboards. They were last minted in 1947 but
remained legal tender until 1960. There are not only contemporaries
but older people who question my memory of this.

Incidentally if you search monetary value comparison sites you will
find that not only the current penny but even the two pence piece are
worth less in real terms than was the farthing when it was abolished,
so why I wonder are they still used? One cannot purchase anything in
pence these days. Time for another re-evaluation?
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
2010-01-29 23:40:58 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:15:23 -0800 (PST), Redshade
Post by Redshade
Post by Zhang Dawei
And longer ago than that, there was a halfpenny.  And a farthing.
Before that, there was only the penny.
I recall buying sweets with my brother back in 1959 which we paid for
using farthings.
--
Zhang Dawei: Stoke-on-Trent, UK.
Please use the Reply-To field for my email address, which is certain
to remain valid for 2 weeks from the posting of this message.
I too (being born in 1955)recall spending farthings at the local sweet
shop. These were usually found down the back of old settees or in
hidden jars in granny's cupboards. They were last minted in 1947 but
remained legal tender until 1960. There are not only contemporaries
but older people who question my memory of this.
Incidentally if you search monetary value comparison sites you will
find that not only the current penny but even the two pence piece are
worth less in real terms than was the farthing when it was abolished,
so why I wonder are they still used? One cannot purchase anything in
pence these days. Time for another re-evaluation?
Some prices are so many pounds and 99 pence. That needs sub-five-pence
coins.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
HVS
2010-01-29 23:55:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:15:23 -0800 (PST), Redshade
Post by Redshade
Incidentally if you search monetary value comparison sites you
will find that not only the current penny but even the two
pence piece are worth less in real terms than was the farthing
when it was abolished, so why I wonder are they still used? One
cannot purchase anything in pence these days. Time for another
re-evaluation?
Some prices are so many pounds and 99 pence. That needs
sub-five-pence coins.
It's a solveable problem. In NZ they still price things as so many
dollars and 95 or 99 cents, but the lowest-denomination coin in
circulation is 10 cents. ("Swedish rounding", I think it's called.)
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
HVS
2010-01-29 23:46:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Redshade
Incidentally if you search monetary value comparison sites you
will find that not only the current penny but even the two pence
piece are worth less in real terms than was the farthing when it
was abolished, so why I wonder are they still used? One cannot
purchase anything in pence these days. Time for another
re-evaluation?
Possibly; it's certainly an oddity that countries grapple (or refuse
to grapple) with this in such different ways.

New Zealand rounds up and down to 10 cents -- 4 or 5 pence -- while
the US still has one-cent coins in circulation (about .6 of a pence,
I think).

I do realise that's probably using two extremes: the NZ 10c base is
probably one of the highest-value minimum coins around, while the US
system still shifts to banknotes when the value hits 60 or 70 pence.
Nonetheless, But the difference in approach is quite marked..
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Evan Kirshenbaum
2010-01-30 00:44:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVS
Post by Redshade
Incidentally if you search monetary value comparison sites you
will find that not only the current penny but even the two pence
piece are worth less in real terms than was the farthing when it
was abolished, so why I wonder are they still used? One cannot
purchase anything in pence these days. Time for another
re-evaluation?
Possibly; it's certainly an oddity that countries grapple (or refuse
to grapple) with this in such different ways.
New Zealand rounds up and down to 10 cents -- 4 or 5 pence -- while
the US still has one-cent coins in circulation (about .6 of a pence,
I think).
"... of a pence"?
Post by HVS
I do realise that's probably using two extremes: the NZ 10c base is
probably one of the highest-value minimum coins around, while the US
system still shifts to banknotes when the value hits 60 or 70 pence.
Nonetheless, But the difference in approach is quite marked..
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The vast majority of humans have
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |more than the average number of
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |legs.

***@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Evan Kirshenbaum
2010-01-29 23:30:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Cece
And longer ago than that, there was a halfpenny. And a farthing.
Before that, there was only the penny.
Given that the origin of the farthing[1] is a penny cut into quarters
along the cross on its reverse, I wonder by how much the penny
precedes it.

[1] or have I swallowed an urban legend?
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |You cannot solve problems with the
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |same type of thinking that created
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |them.
| Albert Einstein
***@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Irwell
2010-01-30 00:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
Post by Cece
And longer ago than that, there was a halfpenny. And a farthing.
Before that, there was only the penny.
Given that the origin of the farthing[1] is a penny cut into quarters
along the cross on its reverse, I wonder by how much the penny
precedes it.
[1] or have I swallowed an urban legend?
When it comes to coinage there are no urban legends.
There are even coins that are 1/3rd of a farthing.
Redshade
2010-01-29 23:50:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Percival P. Cassidy
Post by Fred
Post by Steve Hayes
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound.
The American fast food giant's blunder has stirred up some incensed online
debate about English currency slang, blaming executives in the US for not
properly researching the UK market before broadcasting the advert. Some
customers asked McDonald's to either correct or withdraw the advert, or
allow them to purchase items on the Saver Menu for a true bob, or five pence.
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
was still being used long after the official exchange rate had become
7/2d (7 shillings and tuppence) to one US dollar. Similarly, ISTR, "half
a crown" (2/6d -- and there was a coin of that value) could be referred
to as "half a dollar"; there had been a "crown" coin, and one showed up
occasionally, but they were no longer being minted. Long before my time
there was a 4d coin, the groat.
Perce
And the 4d groat times by 60 gave us the 240d pound.
Based on the ancient 12x5=60 counting system (based on the bones in
the hand).
*They* might have abolished this system in our currency in *their*
attempt to abolish measures that were based on old folk methods but
*they* are never going to be able to decimalise the 60 unit in the way
we measure time or the area of circles/angles.
alan
2010-01-30 00:20:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Redshade
And the 4d groat times by 60 gave us the 240d pound.
Based on the ancient 12x5=60 counting system (based on the bones in
the hand).
While it may well be that counting by twelves had its origins in finger
bones (i.e. four fingers having three bones each, the thumb having only
two), it had nothing at all to do with multiplying by 5 and coming up with
60
Redshade
2010-01-30 00:53:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by alan
 And the 4d groat times by 60 gave us the 240d pound.
Based on the ancient 12x5=60 counting system (based on the bones in
the hand).
While it may well be that counting by twelves had its origins in finger
bones (i.e. four fingers having three bones each, the thumb having only
two), it had nothing at all to do with multiplying by 5 and coming up with
60
I was taught this method by my grandad back in the 50s.
Using the thumb of the right hand as a counter, point it to the bottom
bone of the first digit and work upwards 1-2-3 then go to the bottom
bone of the next finger 4-5-6 and so on until the number 12 was
reached.

This dozen was marked by raising one of the digits of the left hand.
Repeat 5 times and one reaches 60.

"[[I]t had nothing to do with multiplying by 5 and coming up with 60".

I have no objection to being disabused of my traditional beliefs.
Please show me otherwise.
alan
2010-01-30 01:43:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Redshade
Post by alan
Post by Redshade
And the 4d groat times by 60 gave us the 240d pound.
Based on the ancient 12x5=60 counting system (based on the bones in
the hand).
While it may well be that counting by twelves had its origins in finger
bones (i.e. four fingers having three bones each, the thumb having only
two), it had nothing at all to do with multiplying by 5 and coming up with
60
I was taught this method by my grandad back in the 50s.
Using the thumb of the right hand as a counter, point it to the bottom
bone of the first digit and work upwards 1-2-3 then go to the bottom
bone of the next finger 4-5-6 and so on until the number 12 was
reached.
This dozen was marked by raising one of the digits of the left hand.
Repeat 5 times and one reaches 60.
"[[I]t had nothing to do with multiplying by 5 and coming up with 60".
I have no objection to being disabused of my traditional beliefs.
Please show me otherwise.
Nor do I have any objection to learning something new. I'd never considered
counting off the dozens on the other hand. Very interesting. What was your
grandfather's background?
Pablo
2010-01-29 15:23:28 UTC
Permalink
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence? 12 pennies = 1
shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
Didn't you have crowns and half crowns?
--
Pablo
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
2010-01-29 16:45:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pablo
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence? 12 pennies = 1
shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
or that's how it was when I went to school
Didn't you have crowns and half crowns?
Half crowns (2 shillings and sixpence) were in general circulation.
Crowns were not.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Pablo
2010-01-29 19:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Half crowns (2 shillings and sixpence) were in general circulation.
Crowns were not.
I've got one somewhere (a crown), in a little presentation case. I
haven't seen it in about 40 years though, so I don't know where it is.
--
Pablo
Irwell
2010-01-29 20:24:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pablo
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Half crowns (2 shillings and sixpence) were in general circulation.
Crowns were not.
I've got one somewhere (a crown), in a little presentation case. I
haven't seen it in about 40 years though, so I don't know where it is.
The Bank of England had crowns on sale honouring
the Queen's Silver Jubilee.
About 1977 I believe.
musika
2010-01-29 20:44:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Irwell
Post by Pablo
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Half crowns (2 shillings and sixpence) were in general circulation.
Crowns were not.
I've got one somewhere (a crown), in a little presentation case. I
haven't seen it in about 40 years though, so I don't know where it is.
The Bank of England had crowns on sale honouring
the Queen's Silver Jubilee.
About 1977 I believe.
There was also one for Churchill in the mid-sixties.
--
Ray
UK
James Silverton
2010-01-29 21:23:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Irwell
Post by Pablo
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Half crowns (2 shillings and sixpence) were in general
circulation. Crowns were not.
I've got one somewhere (a crown), in a little presentation
case. I haven't seen it in about 40 years though, so I don't
know where it is.
The Bank of England had crowns on sale honouring
the Queen's Silver Jubilee.
About 1977 I believe.
There was also one for Churchill in the mid-sixties.
Were these crown legal tender?
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
James Hogg
2010-01-29 21:33:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Silverton
Post by musika
El Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:45:03 +0000, Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Half crowns (2 shillings and sixpence) were in general
circulation. Crowns were not.
I've got one somewhere (a crown), in a little presentation
case. I haven't seen it in about 40 years though, so I don't
know where it is.
The Bank of England had crowns on sale honouring the Queen's
Silver Jubilee. About 1977 I believe.
There was also one for Churchill in the mid-sixties.
Were these crown legal tender?
Yes, but I don't think many people spent theirs. I still have my
Churchill crown somewhere (probably in the same place as Peter's).
--
James
the Omrud
2010-01-29 22:49:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Hogg
Post by James Silverton
Post by musika
El Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:45:03 +0000, Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Half crowns (2 shillings and sixpence) were in general
circulation. Crowns were not.
I've got one somewhere (a crown), in a little presentation
case. I haven't seen it in about 40 years though, so I don't
know where it is.
The Bank of England had crowns on sale honouring the Queen's
Silver Jubilee. About 1977 I believe.
There was also one for Churchill in the mid-sixties.
Were these crown legal tender?
Yes, but I don't think many people spent theirs. I still have my
Churchill crown somewhere (probably in the same place as Peter's).
Me too. IIRC, Churchill is the only non-royal real human ever to be put
on a UK coin.
--
David
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
2010-01-29 23:05:23 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:49:12 GMT, the Omrud
Post by the Omrud
Post by James Hogg
Post by James Silverton
Post by musika
El Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:45:03 +0000, Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Half crowns (2 shillings and sixpence) were in general
circulation. Crowns were not.
I've got one somewhere (a crown), in a little presentation
case. I haven't seen it in about 40 years though, so I don't
know where it is.
The Bank of England had crowns on sale honouring the Queen's
Silver Jubilee. About 1977 I believe.
There was also one for Churchill in the mid-sixties.
Were these crown legal tender?
Yes, but I don't think many people spent theirs. I still have my
Churchill crown somewhere (probably in the same place as Peter's).
Me too. IIRC, Churchill is the only non-royal real human ever to be put
on a UK coin.
The 2009 2 pound coin has Charles Darwin on it.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
2010-01-29 23:22:14 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 23:05:23 +0000, "Peter Duncanson (BrE)"
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 22:49:12 GMT, the Omrud
Post by the Omrud
Post by James Hogg
Post by James Silverton
Post by musika
Post by Pablo
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Half crowns (2 shillings and sixpence) were in general
circulation. Crowns were not.
I've got one somewhere (a crown), in a little presentation
case. I haven't seen it in about 40 years though, so I don't
know where it is.
The Bank of England had crowns on sale honouring the Queen's
Silver Jubilee. About 1977 I believe.
There was also one for Churchill in the mid-sixties.
Were these crown legal tender?
Yes, but I don't think many people spent theirs. I still have my
Churchill crown somewhere (probably in the same place as Peter's).
Me too. IIRC, Churchill is the only non-royal real human ever to be put
on a UK coin.
The 2009 2 pound coin has Charles Darwin on it.
There are two design of 2006 2 pound coin each commemorating Brunel. One
has his image and the edge inscription
1806-59 . ISAMBARD KINGDOM BRUNEL . ENGINEER

The other has iron structures and his name. The edge inscription is
SO MANY IRONS IN THE FIRE
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Robert Bannister
2010-01-30 02:09:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by musika
Post by Irwell
Post by Pablo
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Half crowns (2 shillings and sixpence) were in general circulation.
Crowns were not.
I've got one somewhere (a crown), in a little presentation case. I
haven't seen it in about 40 years though, so I don't know where it is.
The Bank of England had crowns on sale honouring
the Queen's Silver Jubilee.
About 1977 I believe.
There was also one for Churchill in the mid-sixties.
I've still got one of my Festival of Britain crowns somewhere.
--
Rob Bannister
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
2010-01-29 20:49:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Irwell
Post by Pablo
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Half crowns (2 shillings and sixpence) were in general circulation.
Crowns were not.
I've got one somewhere (a crown), in a little presentation case. I
haven't seen it in about 40 years though, so I don't know where it is.
The Bank of England had crowns on sale honouring
the Queen's Silver Jubilee.
About 1977 I believe.
I almost certainly have one of those - somewhere.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Zhang Dawei
2010-01-29 20:57:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Irwell
Post by Pablo
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Half crowns (2 shillings and sixpence) were in general
circulation. Crowns were not.
I've got one somewhere (a crown), in a little presentation case. I
haven't seen it in about 40 years though, so I don't know where it is.
The Bank of England had crowns on sale honouring
the Queen's Silver Jubilee.
About 1977 I believe.
Quite a few crowns have been issued over the years: Charles and
Diana's wedding, I believe, and Churchill's funeral may be two other
occasions.

There were also three penny bits. Before decimalisation, the sum of
three pence was pronounced variously "THROOP-ence" "THREPP-ence" or
"THRUPP-ence" reflecting different pronunciations in the various
regions of Great Britain. Likewise, the coin was usually referred to
in conversation as a "THROOP-nee" "THREPP-nee" or "THRUPP-nee" bit
(taken from wikipedia, but my memory tells me that it is correct).

They had a varied history, sometimes not being minted in earlier
centuries to the 20th, but from the 19th century onwards they were
routinely minted as small silver coins. By the end of George V's reign
(in 1936) their small size had become unpopular, and so brass, thicker
coins were introduced that had 12 edges to them. The last silver
threepenny bits were minted in George VI's reign up to about 1945. The
threepenny bit was withdrawn and stopped being legal tender on 31
August 1971, after decimalisation.
--
Zhang Dawei: Stoke-on-Trent, UK.
Please use the Reply-To field for my email address, which is certain
to remain valid for 2 weeks from the posting of this message.
Irwell
2010-01-29 23:58:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zhang Dawei
Post by Irwell
Post by Pablo
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Half crowns (2 shillings and sixpence) were in general
circulation. Crowns were not.
I've got one somewhere (a crown), in a little presentation case. I
haven't seen it in about 40 years though, so I don't know where it is.
The Bank of England had crowns on sale honouring
the Queen's Silver Jubilee.
About 1977 I believe.
Quite a few crowns have been issued over the years: Charles and
Diana's wedding, I believe, and Churchill's funeral may be two other
occasions.
There were also three penny bits. Before decimalisation, the sum of
three pence was pronounced variously "THROOP-ence" "THREPP-ence" or
"THRUPP-ence" reflecting different pronunciations in the various
regions of Great Britain. Likewise, the coin was usually referred to
in conversation as a "THROOP-nee" "THREPP-nee" or "THRUPP-nee" bit
(taken from wikipedia, but my memory tells me that it is correct).
They had a varied history, sometimes not being minted in earlier
centuries to the 20th, but from the 19th century onwards they were
routinely minted as small silver coins. By the end of George V's reign
(in 1936) their small size had become unpopular, and so brass, thicker
coins were introduced that had 12 edges to them. The last silver
threepenny bits were minted in George VI's reign up to about 1945. The
threepenny bit was withdrawn and stopped being legal tender on 31
August 1971, after decimalisation.
Silver coins in my collection,
2d 1838 young Queen Victoria
6d 1679 Charles II
4d 1827 George IIII (not IV)
6d 1834 William IIII
6d 1889 Older Queen Victoria

Non silver coins
1977 Crown size but no face value Queen is riding side saddle.
1972 Crown size Elizabeth and Philip 20 November 1947-1972
1965 Crown size Churchill, Queen on the other side.
1977 Silver Jubilee, Australian 50 cents
John Varela
2010-01-30 00:00:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
What was a crown?
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
musika
2010-01-30 00:21:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Varela
Post by Fred
A pound was 'a quid', but wasn't a bob twelve pence?
12 pennies = 1 shilling (one bob)
2 shillings = a florin (2 bob)
240 pennies = 1 pound (1 quid)
20 shillings = 1 pound
21 shillings = 1 guinea
What was a crown?
5 shillings. Half-a-crown 2/6d
--
Ray
UK
Caffista
2010-01-29 07:31:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. . .
"Strictly speaking"? I don't believe a pound was *ever* known as a bob,
even broadly speaking.
James Hogg
2010-01-29 07:41:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caffista
McDonalds' language error 27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its
inaccurate use of the English language. The advert, which promotes
the Pound Saver Menu, begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a
statement which, strictly speaking, is not true. . .
"Strictly speaking"? I don't believe a pound was *ever* known as a
bob, even broadly speaking.
Why didn't they use "nicker"?

As for "bob", a McDonald spokesman has said:
"research has shown it is now more commonly used as slang for a pound or
money in general."

Can anybody here substantiate this?

I wonder where this "research" is presented. I suspect someone looked at
the first page of hits at the Urban Dictionary and found this:

<noun> British Slang;
Money, coinage, currency.
"Tommy made a few bob selling cut n shuts to some old lady."
--
James
Zhang Dawei
2010-01-29 07:57:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Hogg
"research has shown it is now more commonly used as slang for a
pound or money in general."
Of course, the way this is phrased, research can show anything, but it
must usually be extremely poor research, biased and selective.
Post by James Hogg
Can anybody here substantiate this?
I wonder where this "research" is presented. I suspect someone
looked at the first page of hits at the Urban Dictionary and found
<noun> British Slang;
Money, coinage, currency.
"Tommy made a few bob selling cut n shuts to some old lady."
Yes, that would be consistent with the statement McDonald made.
--
Zhang Dawei: Stoke-on-Trent, UK.
Please use the Reply-To field for my email address, which is certain
to remain valid for 2 weeks from the posting of this message.
John Dean
2010-01-29 15:08:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zhang Dawei
Post by James Hogg
"research has shown it is now more commonly used as slang for a
pound or money in general."
Of course, the way this is phrased, research can show anything, but it
must usually be extremely poor research, biased and selective.
Post by James Hogg
Can anybody here substantiate this?
I wonder where this "research" is presented. I suspect someone
looked at the first page of hits at the Urban Dictionary and found
<noun> British Slang;
Money, coinage, currency.
"Tommy made a few bob selling cut n shuts to some old lady."
Yes, that would be consistent with the statement McDonald made.
No, it wouldn't. There's nothing there to equate 'bob' with 'pound'. That
statement could equally read "Tommy made a few sovs selling cut n shuts to
some old lady" even though nobody's been paid in sovereigns for many years.
--
John Dean
Oxford
Roland Hutchinson
2010-01-30 04:05:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zhang Dawei
As for "bob", a McDonald spokesman has said: "research has shown it is
now more commonly used as slang for a pound or money in general."
Of course, the way this is phrased, research can show anything, but it
must usually be extremely poor research, biased and selective.
Can anybody here substantiate this?
I wonder where this "research" is presented. I suspect someone looked
<noun> British Slang;
Money, coinage, currency.
"Tommy made a few bob selling cut n shuts to some old lady."
Yes, that would be consistent with the statement McDonald made.
It's consistent with the "money in general" sense.

It's not a sentence that indicates "bob" = "pound".
--
Roland Hutchinson

He calls himself "the Garden State's leading violist da gamba,"
... comparable to being ruler of an exceptionally small duchy.
--Newark (NJ) Star Ledger ( http://tinyurl.com/RolandIsNJ )
HVS
2010-01-29 08:34:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Hogg
Post by Caffista
McDonalds' language error 27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over
its inaccurate use of the English language. The advert, which
promotes the Pound Saver Menu, begins "the pound, also known
as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking, is not true.
. .
"Strictly speaking"? I don't believe a pound was *ever* known
as a bob, even broadly speaking.
Why didn't they use "nicker"?
"research has shown it is now more commonly used as slang for a
pound or money in general."
Can anybody here substantiate this?
In one sense he's right, but his defence isn't relevant to the
usage he's trying to defend.

In context, "a few bob" can mean "a few pounds"; but no one would
refer to "a pound" as "a bob".
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Zhang Dawei
2010-01-29 07:53:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caffista
Post by Steve Hayes
[...]
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which,
strictly speaking,
is not true. . .
"Strictly speaking"? I don't believe a pound was *ever* known as a bob,
even broadly speaking.
Correct.

I am sad that certain new slang terms, from the 80s, for the then new
pound coins never caught on:

(a) A "Thatcher", because it is "thick, brassy, and acts like a
sovereign"

(b) A Scargill, because it is "rough round the edges, universally
disliked, and wears a hole in the nation's pockets."
--
Zhang Dawei: Stoke-on-Trent, UK.
Please use the Reply-To field for my email address, which is certain
to remain valid for 2 weeks from the posting of this message.
HVS
2010-01-29 08:20:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Caffista
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over
its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the
Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which,
strictly speaking,
is not true. . .
"Strictly speaking"? I don't believe a pound was *ever* known
as a bob, even broadly speaking.
Indeed; it's as silly as saying a dollar is also known as a dime
(or, to be proportionately accurate, a nickel).
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
Hatunen
2010-01-29 16:37:10 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:20:02 GMT, HVS
Post by HVS
Post by Caffista
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the
Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which,
strictly speaking,
is not true. . .
"Strictly speaking"? I don't believe a pound was *ever* known
as a bob, even broadly speaking.
Indeed; it's as silly as saying a dollar is also known as a dime
(or, to be proportionately accurate, a nickel).
Except "dime" isn't slang; it is legally a unit of American money
and has been ever since American money was defined by statute
(although it was spelled "disme" in the first currency act
passed).
--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (***@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Evan Kirshenbaum
2010-01-29 19:00:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hatunen
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:20:02 GMT, HVS
Post by HVS
Post by Caffista
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the
Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which,
strictly speaking,
is not true. . .
"Strictly speaking"? I don't believe a pound was *ever* known
as a bob, even broadly speaking.
Indeed; it's as silly as saying a dollar is also known as a dime
(or, to be proportionately accurate, a nickel).
Except "dime" isn't slang; it is legally a unit of American money
and has been ever since American money was defined by statute
(although it was spelled "disme" in the first currency act
passed).
"Nickel", however, is, as is "penny". And "bit".
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |The skinny models whose main job is
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |to display clothes aren't hired for
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |their sex appeal. They're hired
|for their resemblance to a
***@hpl.hp.com |coat-hanger.
(650)857-7572 | Peter Moylan

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
John Varela
2010-01-30 00:11:04 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:00:30 UTC, Evan Kirshenbaum
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
Post by Hatunen
Except "dime" isn't slang; it is legally a unit of American money
and has been ever since American money was defined by statute
(although it was spelled "disme" in the first currency act
passed).
"Nickel", however, is, as is "penny". And "bit".
There's a term that's gone out of use. It was common WIWAL, but I'll
bet few people under the age of 30 know what "two bits" means.

Shave and a haircut: two bits.
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
Evan Kirshenbaum
2010-01-30 00:36:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Varela
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 19:00:30 UTC, Evan Kirshenbaum
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
Post by Hatunen
Except "dime" isn't slang; it is legally a unit of American money
and has been ever since American money was defined by statute
(although it was spelled "disme" in the first currency act
passed).
"Nickel", however, is, as is "penny". And "bit".
There's a term that's gone out of use. It was common WIWAL, but I'll
bet few people under the age of 30 know what "two bits" means.
Shave and a haircut: two bits.
And even fewer will be likely to use "four bits" or "six bits" in the
money sense outside the cheer

Two bits, four bits, six bits, a dollar.
All for <name of school> stand up and holler!
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |Any programming problem can be
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |solved by adding another layer of
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |indirection. Any performance
|problem can be solved by removing
***@hpl.hp.com |one.
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
HVS
2010-01-29 20:28:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Hatunen
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 08:20:02 GMT, HVS
Post by HVS
Post by Caffista
"Strictly speaking"? I don't believe a pound was *ever* known
as a bob, even broadly speaking.
Indeed; it's as silly as saying a dollar is also known as a dime
(or, to be proportionately accurate, a nickel).
Except "dime" isn't slang; it is legally a unit of American money
and has been ever since American money was defined by statute
(although it was spelled "disme" in the first currency act
passed).
Except that whether something's slang or official has no bearing on
whether two words can or can't be used interchangeably.
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng and BrEng, indiscriminately mixed
R H Draney
2010-01-29 08:57:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound.
The American fast food giant's blunder has stirred up some incensed online
debate about English currency slang, blaming executives in the US for not
properly researching the UK market before broadcasting the advert. Some
customers asked McDonald's to either correct or withdraw the advert, or allow
them to purchase items on the Saver Menu for a true bob, or five pence.
Others are in a better position than I to know this, but I seem to recall that
"bob" strictly applies only to the actual shilling, and not its
post-decimalisation equivalent...this will probably give the Golden Arches a
legal out....

Some decades ago, a car dealer with an overdeveloped sense of whimsy used
another slang term for money in his ads, telling people they could get a new car
from him for "only five thousand bananas" (or whatever the number was)...someone
took him at his word and brought in a truckload of fruit to pay for his new
car....r
--
A pessimist sees the glass as half empty.
An optometrist asks whether you see the glass
more full like this?...or like this?
Steve Hayes
2010-01-29 10:39:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound.
The American fast food giant's blunder has stirred up some incensed online
debate about English currency slang, blaming executives in the US for not
properly researching the UK market before broadcasting the advert. Some
customers asked McDonald's to either correct or withdraw the advert, or allow
them to purchase items on the Saver Menu for a true bob, or five pence.
Others are in a better position than I to know this, but I seem to recall that
"bob" strictly applies only to the actual shilling, and not its
post-decimalisation equivalent...this will probably give the Golden Arches a
legal out....
In South Africa some of the same terms were used -- especially "quid" and
"bob", when we adopted decimal currency in 1961 (ten years before Britain
did).

And as recently as 10 years ago the cashier at the cafeteria at the university
where Iworked woudl still ask for "five bob" when the amount owing was 50c.

We adopted a different system from Britain, and at the time of the change the
Rand was worth ten bob.

Now it's worth peanuts.
--
Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
Chuck Riggs
2010-01-29 12:38:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by R H Draney
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound.
The American fast food giant's blunder has stirred up some incensed online
debate about English currency slang, blaming executives in the US for not
properly researching the UK market before broadcasting the advert. Some
customers asked McDonald's to either correct or withdraw the advert, or allow
them to purchase items on the Saver Menu for a true bob, or five pence.
Others are in a better position than I to know this, but I seem to recall that
"bob" strictly applies only to the actual shilling, and not its
post-decimalisation equivalent...this will probably give the Golden Arches a
legal out....
Some decades ago, a car dealer with an overdeveloped sense of whimsy used
another slang term for money in his ads, telling people they could get a new car
from him for "only five thousand bananas" (or whatever the number was)...someone
took him at his word and brought in a truckload of fruit to pay for his new
car....r
Bananas was not a particularly unusual term for dollars, years ago.
--
Regards,

Chuck Riggs,
An American who lives near Dublin, Ireland and usually spells in BrE
Peter Moylan
2010-01-29 13:59:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound.
Has anyone tried to pay a bob for an item whose price is advertised as
being a pound? It seems to me that, if such a payment were rejected,
McCrap would be seriously at risk of being done for false advertising.
--
Peter Moylan, Newcastle, NSW, Australia. http://www.pmoylan.org
For an e-mail address, see my web page.
Evan Kirshenbaum
2010-01-29 16:20:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its
inaccurate use of the English language. The advert, which promotes
the Pound Saver Menu, begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a
statement which, strictly speaking, is not true. Technically, a bob
is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and of far less value than
a pound.
Has anyone tried to pay a bob for an item whose price is advertised
as being a pound? It seems to me that, if such a payment were
rejected, McCrap would be seriously at risk of being done for false
advertising.
I thought that it was no longer possible to present a British shilling
coin that was still legal tender.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If you think health care is
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |expensive now, wait until you see
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |what it costs when it's free.
| P.J. O'Rourke
***@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
Pablo
2010-01-29 19:31:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
I thought that it was no longer possible to present a British shilling
coin that was still legal tender.
Doesn't the value of a coin stay with it, ie; it's value is it's weight?
I've always assumed that coins could at least be redeemed at the BoE.
Come to think of it, notes are just cheques, and I'm sure they don't have
an expiry date on them.
--
Pablo
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
2010-01-29 19:50:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pablo
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
I thought that it was no longer possible to present a British shilling
coin that was still legal tender.
Doesn't the value of a coin stay with it, ie; it's value is it's weight?
It is many years since the face value of a coin was the same as the
value of the metal from which it is made.
Post by Pablo
I've always assumed that coins could at least be redeemed at the BoE.
Come to think of it, notes are just cheques, and I'm sure they don't have
an expiry date on them.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
James Silverton
2010-01-29 21:30:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Post by Pablo
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
I thought that it was no longer possible to present a
British shilling coin that was still legal tender.
Doesn't the value of a coin stay with it, ie; it's value is
it's weight?
It is many years since the face value of a coin was the same
as the value of the metal from which it is made.
Post by Pablo
I've always assumed that coins could at least be redeemed at
the BoE. Come to think of it, notes are just cheques, and I'm
sure they don't have an expiry date on them.
Sentimental attachment can keep a coin in use even while it costs more
than its face value to produce. This was the case for the rather useless
American copper penny that mainly serves to pay state purchase taxes.
The current penny is made from zinc plated with copper.

I think I have mentioned previously that people seemed to get by with
much larger value smallest coins. Given the change in the CPI, the
smallest coin of 1911, still the penny, was worth about 20 current
cents.
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
k***@cam.ac.uk
2010-01-29 22:16:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Silverton
I think I have mentioned previously that people seemed to get by with
much larger value smallest coins. Given the change in the CPI, the
smallest coin of 1911, still the penny, was worth about 20 current
cents.
In the UK many years ago, if you needed change that was smaller than any
available coin, you
would take it in pins. I don't know, however, whether you could spend the pins
at the next shop you went to, or just had to accumulate them in a pincushion.

Katy
franzi
2010-01-29 22:25:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@cam.ac.uk
Post by James Silverton
I think I have mentioned previously that people seemed to get by with
much larger value smallest coins. Given the change in the CPI, the
smallest coin of 1911, still the penny, was worth about 20 current
cents.
In the UK many years ago, if you needed change that was smaller than any
available coin, you
would take it in pins.  I don't know, however, whether you could spend the pins
at the next shop you went to, or just had to accumulate them in a pincushion.
For two pins, I'd take issue with you over that.
--
franzi
Sara Lorimer
2010-01-30 02:46:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by k***@cam.ac.uk
In the UK many years ago, if you needed change that was smaller than any
available coin, you would take it in pins. I don't know, however, whether
you could spend the pins at the next shop you went to, or just had to
accumulate them in a pincushion.
In Washington State, as in many other states, they used special tokens
for just such occasions:

<http://www.flickr.com/photos/que_sara_sara/3183697996/>

I also don't know if you could spend them like coins, or what you did
with them.
--
SML
Evan Kirshenbaum
2010-01-29 23:18:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by James Silverton
Post by Peter Duncanson (BrE)
Post by Pablo
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
I thought that it was no longer possible to present a
British shilling coin that was still legal tender.
Doesn't the value of a coin stay with it, ie; it's value is
it's weight?
It is many years since the face value of a coin was the same
as the value of the metal from which it is made.
Post by Pablo
I've always assumed that coins could at least be redeemed at
the BoE. Come to think of it, notes are just cheques, and I'm
sure they don't have an expiry date on them.
Sentimental attachment can keep a coin in use even while it costs
more than its face value to produce. This was the case for the
rather useless American copper penny that mainly serves to pay state
purchase taxes.
Actually, there's nothing inherently silly about it costing more than
the face value of a coin to produce one. If it cost $1.25 to make a
hundred pennies with one composition and $0.75 to make them with
another, but the first was more durable and stayed in circulation
twice as long (on average), then it would cost less to keep the coin
in circulation the first way.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |When you rewrite a compiler from
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |scratch, you sometimes fix things
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |you didn't know were broken.
| Larry Wall
***@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
John Varela
2010-01-30 00:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pablo
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
I thought that it was no longer possible to present a British shilling
coin that was still legal tender.
Doesn't the value of a coin stay with it, ie; it's value is it's weight?
I've always assumed that coins could at least be redeemed at the BoE.
Come to think of it, notes are just cheques, and I'm sure they don't have
an expiry date on them.
In the Euro region, wasn't there a cutoff date after which
pre-conversion currency and coins were no longer redeemed?
--
John Varela
Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email
Peter Duncanson (BrE)
2010-01-30 01:06:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Varela
Post by Pablo
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
I thought that it was no longer possible to present a British shilling
coin that was still legal tender.
Doesn't the value of a coin stay with it, ie; it's value is it's weight?
I've always assumed that coins could at least be redeemed at the BoE.
Come to think of it, notes are just cheques, and I'm sure they don't have
an expiry date on them.
In the Euro region, wasn't there a cutoff date after which
pre-conversion currency and coins were no longer redeemed?
It seems to be decided by individual national central banks:
http://www.ecb.int/euro/exchange/html/index.en.html
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Evan Kirshenbaum
2010-01-30 01:03:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pablo
Post by Evan Kirshenbaum
I thought that it was no longer possible to present a British shilling
coin that was still legal tender.
Doesn't the value of a coin stay with it, ie; it's value is it's
weight? I've always assumed that coins could at least be redeemed
at the BoE.
The value of the coin in terms of the metal you get if you melt it
down or in terms of the amount a collector is willing to pay for it
stays with it, but a coin can be "demonetized" and made no longer
legal (or legally acceptable) money. Typically when coins (or bills)
are demonetized the government will decree a period of time during
which people can turn them in to banks in exchange for new money.

Poking around, I see evidence of what I had thought, e.g.,

All shillings from 1816 onwards remained legal tender after
decimalization in 1970, valued at five new pence until finally
demonetized in 1990.

http://www.kenelks.co.uk/coins/recoinage/recoinage.htm

Of course, that doesn't preclude individual merchants from being
willing to accept them, but it does preclude them from being required
to.
Post by Pablo
Come to think of it, notes are just cheques, and I'm sure they don't
have an expiry date on them.
They're checks drawn on an account whose holder reserves the right to
declare them worthless after a given date.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |If you think health care is
1501 Page Mill Road, 1U, MS 1141 |expensive now, wait until you see
Palo Alto, CA 94304 |what it costs when it's free.
| P.J. O'Rourke
***@hpl.hp.com
(650)857-7572

http://www.kirshenbaum.net/
tony cooper
2010-01-29 20:18:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound.
Has anyone tried to pay a bob for an item whose price is advertised as
being a pound? It seems to me that, if such a payment were rejected,
McCrap would be seriously at risk of being done for false advertising.
False advertising is advertising prepared with an intent to deceive or
advertising where there is potential for the consumer to be deceived.

The images available online do not show that McDs is offering to the
sell hamburgers for a bob; they have done no more than mistakenly
compared the pound to a bob. The burgers are offered for a pound.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Ray O'Hara
2010-01-30 02:54:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steve Hayes
McDonalds' language error
27/01/2010 18:06:47
London - A new advert for McDonald's has come under fire over its inaccurate
use of the English language. The advert, which promotes the Pound Saver Menu,
begins "the pound, also known as a bob", a statement which, strictly speaking,
is not true. Technically, a bob is a term for a shilling, or five pence, and
of far less value than a pound.
The American fast food giant's blunder has stirred up some incensed online
debate about English currency slang, blaming executives in the US for not
properly researching the UK market before broadcasting the advert. Some
customers asked McDonald's to either correct or withdraw the advert, or allow
them to purchase items on the Saver Menu for a true bob, or five pence.
http://www.ofm.co.za/news.asp?nid=6186
--
You'd think they'd have hired a natvice British speaker to write the ad.
I'm sure most of us American types find old style English money
incomprehensible.
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