Discussion:
Monsey on the BBC
(too old to reply)
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-30 15:27:41 UTC
Permalink
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").

In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.

(Ironically, Sussex County is the northwesternmost county in New Jersey.)
Katy Jennison
2019-12-30 17:05:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
(Ironically, Sussex County is the northwesternmost county in New Jersey.)
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
--
Katy Jennison
Tony Cooper
2019-12-30 18:40:03 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 17:05:03 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
(Ironically, Sussex County is the northwesternmost county in New Jersey.)
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
If the BBC had called me, I would have used "MAHN-zee" not knowing
better. Monsey is a "hamlet and census-designated place" with a
population of 18,412 (2010). I guess that's why I'm not on the BBC
call list of approved US city pronouncers.

I suppose I would be expected to check out the pronunciation with a
local, and could have called the nearby Sing Sing Kill Brewery in
Ossining NY for local input. Sing Sing is the name of a prison in
Ossining, and Kill Creek runs through Ossining.

Sing Sing is the origin of the phrase "sent up the river" to mean
"sent to prison". The prison is about 30 miles north of NYC on the
Hudson River.

Also callable would be Bagel D'Lox, a bagel shop in Monsey.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-30 19:36:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 17:05:03 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
(Ironically, Sussex County is the northwesternmost county in New Jersey.)
Part of Essex County (Newark Airport) is on the eastern edge of NJ;
Middlesex County is directly south of it.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Katy Jennison
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
Indeed -- if they'd used the obvious vowel I'd have said they said MAWN-zee.
Post by Tony Cooper
If the BBC had called me, I would have used "MAHN-zee" not knowing
better. Monsey is a "hamlet and census-designated place" with a
population of 18,412 (2010). I guess that's why I'm not on the BBC
call list of approved US city pronouncers.
I suppose I would be expected to check out the pronunciation with a
local, and could have called the nearby Sing Sing Kill Brewery in
Ossining NY for local input. Sing Sing is the name of a prison in
Ossining, and Kill Creek runs through Ossining.
Ossining isn't "local" to Monsey for that sort of question.
Post by Tony Cooper
Sing Sing is the origin of the phrase "sent up the river" to mean
"sent to prison". The prison is about 30 miles north of NYC on the
Hudson River.
Also callable would be Bagel D'Lox, a bagel shop in Monsey.
I doubt that your Yiddish would suffice to ask the question there.
b***@aol.com
2019-12-30 20:03:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 17:05:03 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
(Ironically, Sussex County is the northwesternmost county in New Jersey.)
Part of Essex County (Newark Airport) is on the eastern edge of NJ;
Middlesex County is directly south of it.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Katy Jennison
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
Indeed -- if they'd used the obvious vowel I'd have said they said MAWN-zee.
Does that mean you transcribe ɒ as "AW"?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
If the BBC had called me, I would have used "MAHN-zee" not knowing
better. Monsey is a "hamlet and census-designated place" with a
population of 18,412 (2010). I guess that's why I'm not on the BBC
call list of approved US city pronouncers.
I suppose I would be expected to check out the pronunciation with a
local, and could have called the nearby Sing Sing Kill Brewery in
Ossining NY for local input. Sing Sing is the name of a prison in
Ossining, and Kill Creek runs through Ossining.
Ossining isn't "local" to Monsey for that sort of question.
Post by Tony Cooper
Sing Sing is the origin of the phrase "sent up the river" to mean
"sent to prison". The prison is about 30 miles north of NYC on the
Hudson River.
Also callable would be Bagel D'Lox, a bagel shop in Monsey.
I doubt that your Yiddish would suffice to ask the question there.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-30 20:21:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 17:05:03 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
Indeed -- if they'd used the obvious vowel I'd have said they said MAWN-zee.
Does that mean you transcribe ɒ as "AW"?
No, it means that the CAUGHT and LOT vowels, distinct in BrE, are merged
in AmE.
b***@aol.com
2019-12-31 07:38:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 17:05:03 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
Indeed -- if they'd used the obvious vowel I'd have said they said MAWN-zee.
Does thaɑt mean you transcribe ɒ as "AW"?
No, it means that the CAUGHT and LOT vowels, distinct in BrE, are merged
in AmE.
Ah, I thought you meant the "obvious vowel" was obvious to the BBC
(i.e. it was ɒ, the British o).

Therefore, I suppose the obvious vowel ("AW") to AmE-speakers is ɔ, since
you apparently rendered ɑ as "AH" in "MAHN-zee". I'd have thought it was
rather ɑ.
Pat Durkin
2019-12-31 22:09:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 17:05:03 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
Indeed -- if they'd used the obvious vowel I'd have said they said MAWN-zee.
Does that mean you transcribe ɒ as "AW"?
No, it means that the CAUGHT and LOT vowels, distinct in BrE, are merged
in AmE.
But not in MY AmE. Cot, Lot. Caught, Naught, bought, sought. Was it not earlier this week that doll (call, all, caught, naught) v doll (cot, lot, bot, not) MY AmE...perhaps just midwestspeak?

As for Monsey, I would ask what accent the first person poster speaks. But as someone said, "fun" would be my choice. In Wisconsin we have a tribe/reservation called Stockbridge-Munsee, the remnants of the New York tribe who fled here. So hard to know what pressures they put on resident tribes here to move on. Oh, yes. Our Stockbridge-Munsee are also connected to another remnant, the Brotherton.
Jerry Friedman
2019-12-31 22:37:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat Durkin
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 17:05:03 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
Indeed -- if they'd used the obvious vowel I'd have said they said MAWN-zee.
Does that mean you transcribe ɒ as "AW"?
No, it means that the CAUGHT and LOT vowels, distinct in BrE, are merged
in AmE.
But not in MY AmE. Cot, Lot. Caught, Naught, bought, sought. Was it not earlier this week that doll (call, all, caught, naught) v doll (cot, lot, bot, not) MY AmE...perhaps just midwestspeak?
No, more than half of Americans distinguish those vowels.
Post by Pat Durkin
As for Monsey, I would ask what accent the first person poster speaks. But as someone said, "fun" would be my choice. In Wisconsin we have a tribe/reservation called Stockbridge-Munsee, the remnants of the New York tribe who fled here. So hard to know what pressures they put on resident tribes here to move on. Oh, yes. Our Stockbridge-Munsee are also connected to another remnant, the Brotherton.
That sheds some interesting light on the question.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-01 16:02:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pat Durkin
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 17:05:03 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
Indeed -- if they'd used the obvious vowel I'd have said they said MAWN-zee.
Does that mean you transcribe ɒ as "AW"?
No, it means that the CAUGHT and LOT vowels, distinct in BrE, are merged
in AmE.
But not in MY AmE. Cot, Lot. Caught, Naught, bought, sought. Was it not earlier this week that doll (call, all, caught, naught) v doll (cot, lot, bot, not) MY AmE...perhaps just midwestspeak?
No, BrE LOT is distinct from what I think Wells called PALM, which is our
LOT/COT. I am no cot/caught mergerer!
Post by Pat Durkin
As for Monsey, I would ask what accent the first person poster speaks. But as someone said, "fun" would be my choice. In Wisconsin we have a tribe/reservation called Stockbridge-Munsee, the remnants of the New York tribe who fled here. So hard to know what pressures they put on resident tribes here to move on. Oh, yes. Our Stockbridge-Munsee are also connected to another remnant, the Brotherton.
Stockbridge from Western Mass., where Tanglewood is?
Pat Durkin
2020-01-04 06:15:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Pat Durkin
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 17:05:03 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
Indeed -- if they'd used the obvious vowel I'd have said they said MAWN-zee.
Does that mean you transcribe ɒ as "AW"?
No, it means that the CAUGHT and LOT vowels, distinct in BrE, are merged
in AmE.
But not in MY AmE. Cot, Lot. Caught, Naught, bought, sought. Was it not earlier this week that doll (call, all, caught, naught) v doll (cot, lot, bot, not) MY AmE...perhaps just midwestspeak?
No, BrE LOT is distinct from what I think Wells called PALM, which is our
LOT/COT. I am no cot/caught mergerer!
You may be correct here. All I can say is the "L" may affect the preceding vowel.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Pat Durkin
As for Monsey, I would ask what accent the first person poster speaks. But as someone said, "fun" would be my choice. In Wisconsin we have a tribe/reservation called Stockbridge-Munsee, the remnants of the New York tribe who fled here. So hard to know what pressures they put on resident tribes here to move on. Oh, yes. Our Stockbridge-Munsee are also connected to another remnant, the Brotherton.
Stockbridge from Western Mass., where Tanglewood is?
You know, I have never asked nor questioned the name. Sometimes all three names are quoted to label the tribe. Stockbridge-Munsee-Brotherton. "Brotherton" used separately has appeared in reference to some particular bible, associated with a place where the tribe once settled.
Tony Cooper
2019-12-30 22:01:27 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 11:36:00 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 17:05:03 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
(Ironically, Sussex County is the northwesternmost county in New Jersey.)
Part of Essex County (Newark Airport) is on the eastern edge of NJ;
Middlesex County is directly south of it.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Katy Jennison
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
Indeed -- if they'd used the obvious vowel I'd have said they said MAWN-zee.
Post by Tony Cooper
If the BBC had called me, I would have used "MAHN-zee" not knowing
better. Monsey is a "hamlet and census-designated place" with a
population of 18,412 (2010). I guess that's why I'm not on the BBC
call list of approved US city pronouncers.
I suppose I would be expected to check out the pronunciation with a
local, and could have called the nearby Sing Sing Kill Brewery in
Ossining NY for local input. Sing Sing is the name of a prison in
Ossining, and Kill Creek runs through Ossining.
Ossining isn't "local" to Monsey for that sort of question.
21 miles isn't a particularly long distance to someone in the US.
Considering the fact that they are connected partly by I-287, the two
are local to each other. You probably travel 21 miles to some store
on occasion and don't consider it a cross-country trek.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Also callable would be Bagel D'Lox, a bagel shop in Monsey.
I doubt that your Yiddish would suffice to ask the question there.
All of the people interviewed on the newscasts of that event spoke in
perfectly understandable English. In fact, most of them had the same
inflections of the B&H Camera (NYC) employees I deal with quite
frequently on the phone.

B&H is Hasidic-owned and managed, and employs hundreds of orthodox
Jews. Mostly of the Satmar sect.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/nyc-electronics-store-earns-gelt-with-orthodox-business-model/
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-30 22:20:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 11:36:00 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
If the BBC had called me, I would have used "MAHN-zee" not knowing
better. Monsey is a "hamlet and census-designated place" with a
population of 18,412 (2010). I guess that's why I'm not on the BBC
call list of approved US city pronouncers.
I suppose I would be expected to check out the pronunciation with a
local, and could have called the nearby Sing Sing Kill Brewery in
Ossining NY for local input. Sing Sing is the name of a prison in
Ossining, and Kill Creek runs through Ossining.
Ossining isn't "local" to Monsey for that sort of question.
21 miles isn't a particularly long distance to someone in the US.
You REALLY should stop commentating on things you know nothing of,
such as dialectology.
Post by Tony Cooper
Considering the fact that they are connected partly by I-287, the two
are local to each other.
True, someone in the middle of Florida would have no understanding
of mile-wide rivers and communication and cultural patterns. Or,
for that matter, the configurations of superhighways and their exits.

The road is not _called_ "I-287," any more than Sixth Avenue is called
Avenue of the Americas. It is called the New York State Thruway,
using the Tappan Zee Bridge, or, if you are Andrew Cuomo, the Governor
Mario M. Cuomo Bridge. It was _numbered_ I-287 some time after it was
built.
Post by Tony Cooper
You probably travel 21 miles to some store
on occasion and don't consider it a cross-country trek.
About once a month (when they regularly emailed coupons) I would go
up to the Barnes & Noble in Paramus, 15 miles according to Google Maps.

Three times a year, I go to the dentist in Gillette, 30 miles ditto.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Also callable would be Bagel D'Lox, a bagel shop in Monsey.
I doubt that your Yiddish would suffice to ask the question there.
All of the people interviewed on the newscasts of that event spoke in
perfectly understandable English. In fact, most of them had the same
inflections of the B&H Camera (NYC) employees I deal with quite
frequently on the phone.
How many of them were employees of Bagel D'Lox?
Post by Tony Cooper
B&H is Hasidic-owned and managed, and employs hundreds of orthodox
Jews. Mostly of the Satmar sect.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/nyc-electronics-store-earns-gelt-with-orthodox-business-model/
Their store is in Midtown Manhattan, not a dairy restaurant in the
heart of a Hasidic community.

Are you really SO unable to restrain yourself from desperately trying
to find something to fight about? Isn't Lewis keeping you busy enough
in your attacks on Macintosh-users?
Tony Cooper
2019-12-31 05:59:47 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 14:20:16 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 11:36:00 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
If the BBC had called me, I would have used "MAHN-zee" not knowing
better. Monsey is a "hamlet and census-designated place" with a
population of 18,412 (2010). I guess that's why I'm not on the BBC
call list of approved US city pronouncers.
I suppose I would be expected to check out the pronunciation with a
local, and could have called the nearby Sing Sing Kill Brewery in
Ossining NY for local input. Sing Sing is the name of a prison in
Ossining, and Kill Creek runs through Ossining.
Ossining isn't "local" to Monsey for that sort of question.
21 miles isn't a particularly long distance to someone in the US.
You REALLY should stop commentating on things you know nothing of,
such as dialectology.
Dialectology has nothing to do with my comment. The variations and
geographical location of dialects is not relevant to the comment. What
is relevant that in two US towns that are 21 miles apart, in this day
and age, the people in one of those towns know how the residents of
the other town pronounce their town's name. That would be especially
true if the question is asked of people in a popular bar like Sing
Sing Kill Brewery.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
Considering the fact that they are connected partly by I-287, the two
are local to each other.
True, someone in the middle of Florida would have no understanding
of mile-wide rivers and communication and cultural patterns. Or,
for that matter, the configurations of superhighways and their exits.
Today there are bridges and causeways driven across those wide bodies
of water in Florida. Amazingly, Tampa and St Petersburg happen to be
about the same distance apart as Monsey and Ossining (23 and 21
miles), and that is mostly over the water of Tampa Bay. The journey
doesn't involve a cable ferry; it's all I-275.

I assume I-287 is not like this:

https://www.northcountryatwork.org/archive-items/men-and-horse-on-a-cable-ferry-across-the-hudson-river/

You're often advised not to dig the hole you're in deeper, but in this
case, don't even start the hole.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-31 15:58:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 14:20:16 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 11:36:00 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
If the BBC had called me, I would have used "MAHN-zee" not knowing
better. Monsey is a "hamlet and census-designated place" with a
population of 18,412 (2010). I guess that's why I'm not on the BBC
call list of approved US city pronouncers.
I suppose I would be expected to check out the pronunciation with a
local, and could have called the nearby Sing Sing Kill Brewery in
Ossining NY for local input. Sing Sing is the name of a prison in
Ossining, and Kill Creek runs through Ossining.
Ossining isn't "local" to Monsey for that sort of question.
21 miles isn't a particularly long distance to someone in the US.
You REALLY should stop commentating on things you know nothing of,
such as dialectology.
Dialectology has nothing to do with my comment. The variations and
geographical location of dialects is not relevant to the comment. What
Stop flaunting your ignorance.
Post by Tony Cooper
is relevant that in two US towns that are 21 miles apart, in this day
and age, the people in one of those towns know how the residents of
the other town pronounce their town's name. That would be especially
true if the question is asked of people in a popular bar like Sing
Sing Kill Brewery.
Why would they know that, if Monsey hadn't suddenly popped up in the
news this weekend (properly pronounced by all the newspeople)? It's
a very small village, with a very insular population, and I only knew
its pronunciation because we had relatives there long before it became
so nearly-exclusively Hasidic.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
Considering the fact that they are connected partly by I-287, the two
are local to each other.
True, someone in the middle of Florida would have no understanding
of mile-wide rivers and communication and cultural patterns. Or,
for that matter, the configurations of superhighways and their exits.
Today there are bridges and causeways driven across those wide bodies
of water in Florida. Amazingly, Tampa and St Petersburg happen to be
about the same distance apart as Monsey and Ossining (23 and 21
miles), and that is mostly over the water of Tampa Bay. The journey
doesn't involve a cable ferry; it's all I-275.
https://www.northcountryatwork.org/archive-items/men-and-horse-on-a-cable-ferry-across-the-hudson-river/
You're often advised not to dig the hole you're in deeper, but in this
case, don't even start the hole.
Howcome you never take your own advice?

You are constantly doing what in sports is called an "unforced error."
You start spouting off on something you know nothing about, yet you
never stop after people who know what they're talking about try to
set you straight. I will again mention, though you deleted the reference,
your current fight with Lewis about something else you know nothing of.

Maybe the folks who took over your estate could hire you to putter around
their place so you have to resort less to plaguing the newsgroup with your
unforced errors.
Tony Cooper
2019-12-31 17:24:22 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 07:58:11 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 14:20:16 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 11:36:00 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
If the BBC had called me, I would have used "MAHN-zee" not knowing
better. Monsey is a "hamlet and census-designated place" with a
population of 18,412 (2010). I guess that's why I'm not on the BBC
call list of approved US city pronouncers.
I suppose I would be expected to check out the pronunciation with a
local, and could have called the nearby Sing Sing Kill Brewery in
Ossining NY for local input. Sing Sing is the name of a prison in
Ossining, and Kill Creek runs through Ossining.
Ossining isn't "local" to Monsey for that sort of question.
21 miles isn't a particularly long distance to someone in the US.
You REALLY should stop commentating on things you know nothing of,
such as dialectology.
Dialectology has nothing to do with my comment. The variations and
geographical location of dialects is not relevant to the comment. What
Stop flaunting your ignorance.
My comment had nothing to do with origin or location where
pronunciation of terms came from. It had to do with current knowledge
of how a town name 21 miles away is pronounced. Even something as
common as talk radio would expose Ossining residents to the
pronunciation of Monsey.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
is relevant that in two US towns that are 21 miles apart, in this day
and age, the people in one of those towns know how the residents of
the other town pronounce their town's name. That would be especially
true if the question is asked of people in a popular bar like Sing
Sing Kill Brewery.
Why would they know that, if Monsey hadn't suddenly popped up in the
news this weekend (properly pronounced by all the newspeople)? It's
a very small village, with a very insular population, and I only knew
its pronunciation because we had relatives there long before it became
so nearly-exclusively Hasidic.
There you go again...creating a hole and continuing to dig.

Monsey has changed since your mommy took you to summer camp. The
population of Monsey is 22,043 (2017) and the population of Ossining
is 25,407 (2017). The two are roughly the same size.

About 31% of Monsey population is Jewish, and that does not mean the
population is "nearly-exclusively Hasidic". That group may be
insular, but there are at least 15,000 Monsey residents who may make
the short drive to a popular bar in Ossining and pronounced "Monsey"
in a visit.

It's hardly unusual for people in a neighboring town to know how
another town's name is pronounced...even if they don't personally go
there. Nor would it be unusual for residents of Ossining to have
friends or relatives in a town 22 miles away.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
You are constantly doing what in sports is called an "unforced error."
You start spouting off on something you know nothing about, yet you
never stop after people who know what they're talking about try to
set you straight. I will again mention, though you deleted the reference,
your current fight with Lewis about something else you know nothing of.
On the contrary, I know a great deal about editing photographs in
Adobe products and know that the platform with similarly configured
devices doesn't factor into the editing process. Lewis does not
claim any knowledge of editing photographs. His claim seems to be
that if it's a Mac, it must do it better but he can't explain how.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-31 18:54:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 07:58:11 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 14:20:16 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 30 Dec 2019 11:36:00 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
If the BBC had called me, I would have used "MAHN-zee" not knowing
better. Monsey is a "hamlet and census-designated place" with a
population of 18,412 (2010). I guess that's why I'm not on the BBC
call list of approved US city pronouncers.
I suppose I would be expected to check out the pronunciation with a
local, and could have called the nearby Sing Sing Kill Brewery in
Ossining NY for local input. Sing Sing is the name of a prison in
Ossining, and Kill Creek runs through Ossining.
Ossining isn't "local" to Monsey for that sort of question.
21 miles isn't a particularly long distance to someone in the US.
You REALLY should stop commentating on things you know nothing of,
such as dialectology.
Dialectology has nothing to do with my comment. The variations and
geographical location of dialects is not relevant to the comment. What
Stop flaunting your ignorance.
My comment had nothing to do with origin or location where
pronunciation of terms came from. It had to do with current knowledge
of how a town name 21 miles away is pronounced. Even something as
common as talk radio would expose Ossining residents to the
pronunciation of Monsey.
Why? Does "talk radio" have some special attraction for Monseyites?
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
is relevant that in two US towns that are 21 miles apart, in this day
and age, the people in one of those towns know how the residents of
the other town pronounce their town's name. That would be especially
true if the question is asked of people in a popular bar like Sing
Sing Kill Brewery.
Why would they know that, if Monsey hadn't suddenly popped up in the
news this weekend (properly pronounced by all the newspeople)? It's
a very small village, with a very insular population, and I only knew
its pronunciation because we had relatives there long before it became
so nearly-exclusively Hasidic.
There you go again...creating a hole and continuing to dig.
Monsey has changed since your mommy took you to summer camp.
What does the one have to do with the other? And both "mommy" and
"daddy" did that.
Post by Tony Cooper
The
population of Monsey is 22,043 (2017) and the population of Ossining
is 25,407 (2017). The two are roughly the same size.
About 31% of Monsey population is Jewish, and that does not mean the
That's 15 or more times the national average. (There are now more
Muslims than Jews in the US.)
Post by Tony Cooper
population is "nearly-exclusively Hasidic". That group may be
insular, but there are at least 15,000 Monsey residents who may make
the short drive to a popular bar in Ossining and pronounced "Monsey"
in a visit.
IT IS NOT A FUCKING "SHORT DRIVE." JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Post by Tony Cooper
It's hardly unusual for people in a neighboring town to know how
another town's name is pronounced...even if they don't personally go
there. Nor would it be unusual for residents of Ossining to have
friends or relatives in a town 22 miles away.
IT IS NOT A FUCKING "NEIGHBORING TOWN." JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
You are constantly doing what in sports is called an "unforced error."
You start spouting off on something you know nothing about, yet you
never stop after people who know what they're talking about try to
set you straight. I will again mention, though you deleted the reference,
your current fight with Lewis about something else you know nothing of.
On the contrary, I know a great deal about editing photographs in
You know nothing about Macintosh computers. Are you not aware that
that is what you're fighting about with him?
Post by Tony Cooper
Adobe products and know that the platform with similarly configured
devices doesn't factor into the editing process. Lewis does not
claim any knowledge of editing photographs. His claim seems to be
that if it's a Mac, it must do it better but he can't explain how.
You apparently pay as little attention to what he writes when you fight
with him as you do to what I write when you fight with me.
Tony Cooper
2019-12-31 20:07:33 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 10:54:55 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
My comment had nothing to do with origin or location where
pronunciation of terms came from. It had to do with current knowledge
of how a town name 21 miles away is pronounced. Even something as
common as talk radio would expose Ossining residents to the
pronunciation of Monsey.
Why? Does "talk radio" have some special attraction for Monseyites?
Post by Tony Cooper
On the contrary, I know a great deal about editing photographs in
You know nothing about Macintosh computers. Are you not aware that
that is what you're fighting about with him?
Post by Tony Cooper
Adobe products and know that the platform with similarly configured
devices doesn't factor into the editing process. Lewis does not
claim any knowledge of editing photographs. His claim seems to be
that if it's a Mac, it must do it better but he can't explain how.
You apparently pay as little attention to what he writes when you fight
with him as you do to what I write when you fight with me.
I know analogies are lost on you, but if you consider the engine as
the platform of an automobile, there is no difference to the driver in
being able to parallel park in a Tesla and parallel park in a
Chevrolet with an internal combustion engine.

You don't have to be knowledgeable about what's "under the hood" to
edit in either platform or parallel park in either platform.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Tony Cooper
2019-12-31 20:27:43 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 10:54:55 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
The
population of Monsey is 22,043 (2017) and the population of Ossining
is 25,407 (2017). The two are roughly the same size.
About 31% of Monsey population is Jewish, and that does not mean the
That's 15 or more times the national average. (There are now more
Muslims than Jews in the US.)
Post by Tony Cooper
population is "nearly-exclusively Hasidic". That group may be
insular, but there are at least 15,000 Monsey residents who may make
the short drive to a popular bar in Ossining and pronounced "Monsey"
in a visit.
IT IS NOT A FUCKING "SHORT DRIVE." JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Speaking of insular attitudes, an American who thinks 21 miles is not
a short drive is the very definition of "insular".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
RH Draney
2019-12-31 20:42:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Speaking of insular attitudes, an American who thinks 21 miles is not
a short drive is the very definition of "insular".
I'd consider it a long drive when I'm delivering food...long enough that
I expect a pretty decent fee for the order....r
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-31 21:13:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 10:54:55 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
The
population of Monsey is 22,043 (2017) and the population of Ossining
is 25,407 (2017). The two are roughly the same size.
About 31% of Monsey population is Jewish, and that does not mean the
That's 15 or more times the national average. (There are now more
Muslims than Jews in the US.)
Hmm, not deleted because he finds it disturbing, but also not commented
on. Could something have actually gotten through to him? Naah.
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
population is "nearly-exclusively Hasidic". That group may be
insular, but there are at least 15,000 Monsey residents who may make
the short drive to a popular bar in Ossining and pronounced "Monsey"
in a visit.
IT IS NOT A FUCKING "SHORT DRIVE." JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Speaking of insular attitudes, an American who thinks 21 miles is not
a short drive is the very definition of "insular".
It's not surprising that someone from two of the flattest places in the
world would not understand how terrain influences communication. Or would
think that driving is the first choice for traveling from one location to
another.
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-01 01:34:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's not surprising that someone from two of the flattest places in the
world would not understand how terrain influences communication. Or would
think that driving is the first choice for traveling from one location to
another.
Looking on from the other side of the pond, I thought that driving was
indeed the first choice means of traveling within the US.

Aren't there a lot of films based on this premise?
--
Sam Plusnet
Tony Cooper
2020-01-01 03:00:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's not surprising that someone from two of the flattest places in the
world would not understand how terrain influences communication. Or would
think that driving is the first choice for traveling from one location to
another.
Looking on from the other side of the pond, I thought that driving was
indeed the first choice means of traveling within the US.
Aren't there a lot of films based on this premise?
It is. With the exception of some of our larger cities, public
transportation sucks. I seriously doubt if Monsey has a subway
system, but I've never been there. Perhaps he thinks travel is by
pushcart in Monsey or that the 69% of the Monsey residents who are not
Jewish are Mennonites.

I have no idea why PTD thinks terrain influences communication in the
present day and is a factor here. He seems to have an unlimited
number of strawmen to push out. Monsey is at 548 ft asl and Ossining
is at 161 asl, but most modern automobiles can handle that grade so
people can travel between the two without difficulty.

My comment - about calling a bar in Ossining - was about present day
communication.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-01 17:04:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's not surprising that someone from two of the flattest places in the
world would not understand how terrain influences communication. Or would
think that driving is the first choice for traveling from one location to
another.
Looking on from the other side of the pond, I thought that driving was
indeed the first choice means of traveling within the US.
Aren't there a lot of films based on this premise?
It is. With the exception of some of our larger cities, public
transportation sucks. I seriously doubt if Monsey has a subway
system, but I've never been there. Perhaps he thinks travel is by
pushcart in Monsey or that the 69% of the Monsey residents who are not
Jewish are Mennonites.
We are currently having a serious problem with antisemitism in NYC and
environs. Retailing stereotypes encourages that.
Post by Tony Cooper
I have no idea why PTD thinks terrain influences communication in the
present day and is a factor here. He seems to have an unlimited
number of strawmen to push out. Monsey is at 548 ft asl and Ossining
is at 161 asl, but most modern automobiles can handle that grade so
people can travel between the two without difficulty.
Just stop flaunting your ignorance (and you inability to consult a
topographic map). There's probably no one left here who finds it amusing
or even charming.
Post by Tony Cooper
My comment - about calling a bar in Ossining - was about present day
communication.
That doesn't make it any less moronic.
Ken Blake
2020-01-01 17:13:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's not surprising that someone from two of the flattest places in the
world would not understand how terrain influences communication. Or would
think that driving is the first choice for traveling from one location to
another.
Looking on from the other side of the pond, I thought that driving was
indeed the first choice means of traveling within the US.
Aren't there a lot of films based on this premise?
It is. With the exception of some of our larger cities, public
transportation sucks.
I have experience with public transportation in NYC (subways, elevated
trains, and buses), where I sometimes lived and sometimes worked, and in
San Francisco (buses, trolleys, and cable cars), where I visited several
times. They were both fine.

I have no experience with public transportation in any other cities in
the US, so I can't comment on how good they are. But I think you're
probably right.
Post by Tony Cooper
I seriously doubt if Monsey has a subway
system, but I've never been there.
Monsey is located in Rockland County. It's much too small to have a
subway system of its own. There is no subway system anywhere in the
county. Neither is there a subway system in Westchester county just
across the Hudson River from Rockland, and much bigger than Rockland. As
far as I know, except for NYC, there are no subway systems anywhere in
southern NY state. There might not be any in the northern part of the
state either, but I'm not as sure about that.

There's a bus system in Rockland, but where it goes is very limited. I
can't remember ever using it when I lived there, although I used a
commuter bus to go to my office in NYC.
--
Ken
Tony Cooper
2020-01-01 19:47:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's not surprising that someone from two of the flattest places in the
world would not understand how terrain influences communication. Or would
think that driving is the first choice for traveling from one location to
another.
Looking on from the other side of the pond, I thought that driving was
indeed the first choice means of traveling within the US.
Aren't there a lot of films based on this premise?
It is. With the exception of some of our larger cities, public
transportation sucks.
I have experience with public transportation in NYC (subways, elevated
trains, and buses), where I sometimes lived and sometimes worked, and in
San Francisco (buses, trolleys, and cable cars), where I visited several
times. They were both fine.
I have no experience with public transportation in any other cities in
the US, so I can't comment on how good they are. But I think you're
probably right.
It depends, of course, on the city. I think, though, that the
statement is true for enough US cities to be an acceptable generality.

Orlando has a public transportation system, but one that does not
serve a substantial number of people who need public transportation.
The _Orlando Sentinel_ recently ran a series of articles on this.

Orlando's a tourist destination with a lot of hotels that employ
minimum wage workers. There aren't sufficient routes from the areas
in which the workers live to where they work. Many are spending as
much as four hours each way getting to work and back.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Ken Blake
2020-01-01 16:57:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's not surprising that someone from two of the flattest places in the
world would not understand how terrain influences communication. Or would
think that driving is the first choice for traveling from one location to
another.
Looking on from the other side of the pond, I thought that driving was
indeed the first choice means of traveling within the US.
That depends on where you are located and Where you are going.

If I want to get from one place to another here within Tucson, I almost
almost drive. But if I want to get to the airport to catch a flight, I
use Uber, so I won't have to pay for parking.

If I want to get from Tucson to a place like New York, or San Francisco,
I don't want to drive that far, and take a flight.

When I lived in a suburb of NYC and commuted into the city, I always
took a commuter train. If I drove, the traffic would have made it take
forever, and parking would have cost a fortune.

If I wanted to get from one place in NYC to another I almost always
walked, unless it was very far.

If I were rich enough to have an apartment in a nice neighborhood in
NYC, I would no longer even want to have a car. I would walk where I
could and take Uber for the longer distances.
--
Ken
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-02 02:41:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
It's not surprising that someone from two of the flattest places in the
world would not understand how terrain influences communication. Or would
think that driving is the first choice for traveling from one location to
another.
Looking on from the other side of the pond, I thought that driving was
indeed the first choice means of traveling within the US.
Aren't there a lot of films based on this premise?
Following up on you own post I'm afraid.
The US has produced a lot of "Road" movies (Not a reference to
Hope/Crosby), and Australia produced the Mad Max franchise.
Do other countries have a road film genre?
--
Sam Plusnet
David Kleinecke
2019-12-31 22:27:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 10:54:55 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
The
population of Monsey is 22,043 (2017) and the population of Ossining
is 25,407 (2017). The two are roughly the same size.
About 31% of Monsey population is Jewish, and that does not mean the
That's 15 or more times the national average. (There are now more
Muslims than Jews in the US.)
Post by Tony Cooper
population is "nearly-exclusively Hasidic". That group may be
insular, but there are at least 15,000 Monsey residents who may make
the short drive to a popular bar in Ossining and pronounced "Monsey"
in a visit.
IT IS NOT A FUCKING "SHORT DRIVE." JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Speaking of insular attitudes, an American who thinks 21 miles is not
a short drive is the very definition of "insular".
Here we have two towns - Eureka and Fortuna - significantly less
than twenty miles apart. I have lived in both. The doctor in Fortuna -
the smaller city says that most of his patients are very reluctant
to go all the way to the big city - Eureka - to see a specialist.

The road's a freeway and traffic is light.
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-01 16:02:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 10:54:55 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
The
population of Monsey is 22,043 (2017) and the population of Ossining
is 25,407 (2017). The two are roughly the same size.
About 31% of Monsey population is Jewish, and that does not mean the
That's 15 or more times the national average. (There are now more
Muslims than Jews in the US.)
Post by Tony Cooper
population is "nearly-exclusively Hasidic". That group may be
insular, but there are at least 15,000 Monsey residents who may make
the short drive to a popular bar in Ossining and pronounced "Monsey"
in a visit.
IT IS NOT A FUCKING "SHORT DRIVE." JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Speaking of insular attitudes, an American who thinks 21 miles is not
a short drive is the very definition of "insular".
Here we have two towns - Eureka and Fortuna - significantly less
than twenty miles apart. I have lived in both. The doctor in Fortuna -
the smaller city says that most of his patients are very reluctant
to go all the way to the big city - Eureka - to see a specialist.
The road's a freeway and traffic is light.
The road TC thinks Orthodox Jews would take to the prison town across
the mile-wide river and up-and-down several mountains is a tollway with
heavy traffic most of the day.

Do they really drive 21 miles just to go to a pub in Florida?
Tony Cooper
2020-01-01 18:40:56 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 08:02:11 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 10:54:55 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
The
population of Monsey is 22,043 (2017) and the population of Ossining
is 25,407 (2017). The two are roughly the same size.
About 31% of Monsey population is Jewish, and that does not mean the
That's 15 or more times the national average. (There are now more
Muslims than Jews in the US.)
Post by Tony Cooper
population is "nearly-exclusively Hasidic". That group may be
insular, but there are at least 15,000 Monsey residents who may make
the short drive to a popular bar in Ossining and pronounced "Monsey"
in a visit.
IT IS NOT A FUCKING "SHORT DRIVE." JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Speaking of insular attitudes, an American who thinks 21 miles is not
a short drive is the very definition of "insular".
Here we have two towns - Eureka and Fortuna - significantly less
than twenty miles apart. I have lived in both. The doctor in Fortuna -
the smaller city says that most of his patients are very reluctant
to go all the way to the big city - Eureka - to see a specialist.
The road's a freeway and traffic is light.
The road TC thinks Orthodox Jews would take to the prison town across
the mile-wide river and up-and-down several mountains is a tollway with
heavy traffic most of the day.
Perhaps bridges were not in place when mommy took you to summer camp.
It's no longer necessary to ford the Hudson. Google estimates the
trip between the towns takes 38 to 40 minutes. The Tappan Zee Bridge
toll is $5 and only on the east-bound side. Not an unaffordable
expense unless you are a part-time editor for hire.
Who said anything about Orthodox Jews going to the Ossining pub?
That's a total fabrication on your part and you know it. Possibly
based on your total misconception that Monsey is "nearly-exclusively
Hasidic".

There are about 15,000 non-Jewish residents of Monsey, and many of
them may have visited the pub and pronounced the name of their city of
residence on a visit. There are many reasons a resident of Monsey
would go to Ossining from visiting a relative to shopping in places
not present in Monsey. While there, Sing Sing Kill Brewery would be a
place to stop.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Do they really drive 21 miles just to go to a pub in Florida?
Certainly, if there's something on offer at that pub that they want to
see. Pubs like Sing Sing Kill Brewery have musical events that draw
people from great distances like 21 miles. If I was in Monsey, and of
a particular persuasion, I might go to Sing Sing Kill Brewery on
January 15th for "Queer Music Night" featuring the Ossining LGBTQ
Alliance. No cover. Such an event might not be held in Monsey.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
b***@aol.com
2020-01-01 19:53:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 08:02:11 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 10:54:55 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
The
population of Monsey is 22,043 (2017) and the population of Ossining
is 25,407 (2017). The two are roughly the same size.
About 31% of Monsey population is Jewish, and that does not mean the
That's 15 or more times the national average. (There are now more
Muslims than Jews in the US.)
Post by Tony Cooper
population is "nearly-exclusively Hasidic". That group may be
insular, but there are at least 15,000 Monsey residents who may make
the short drive to a popular bar in Ossining and pronounced "Monsey"
in a visit.
IT IS NOT A FUCKING "SHORT DRIVE." JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Speaking of insular attitudes, an American who thinks 21 miles is not
a short drive is the very definition of "insular".
Here we have two towns - Eureka and Fortuna - significantly less
than twenty miles apart. I have lived in both. The doctor in Fortuna -
the smaller city says that most of his patients are very reluctant
to go all the way to the big city - Eureka - to see a specialist.
The road's a freeway and traffic is light.
The road TC thinks Orthodox Jews would take to the prison town across
the mile-wide river and up-and-down several mountains is a tollway with
heavy traffic most of the day.
Perhaps bridges were not in place when mommy took you to summer camp.
It's no longer necessary to ford the Hudson. Google estimates the
trip between the towns takes 38 to 40 minutes. The Tappan Zee Bridge
Tappan Zee nicht!
Post by Tony Cooper
toll is $5 and only on the east-bound side. Not an unaffordable
expense unless you are a part-time editor for hire.
Who said anything about Orthodox Jews going to the Ossining pub?
That's a total fabrication on your part and you know it. Possibly
based on your total misconception that Monsey is "nearly-exclusively
Hasidic".
There are about 15,000 non-Jewish residents of Monsey, and many of
them may have visited the pub and pronounced the name of their city of
residence on a visit. There are many reasons a resident of Monsey
would go to Ossining from visiting a relative to shopping in places
not present in Monsey. While there, Sing Sing Kill Brewery would be a
place to stop.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Do they really drive 21 miles just to go to a pub in Florida?
Certainly, if there's something on offer at that pub that they want to
see. Pubs like Sing Sing Kill Brewery have musical events that draw
people from great distances like 21 miles. If I was in Monsey, and of
a particular persuasion, I might go to Sing Sing Kill Brewery on
January 15th for "Queer Music Night" featuring the Ossining LGBTQ
Alliance. No cover. Such an event might not be held in Monsey.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-01 20:29:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Tony Cooper
Perhaps bridges were not in place when mommy took you to summer camp.
It's no longer necessary to ford the Hudson. Google estimates the
trip between the towns takes 38 to 40 minutes. The Tappan Zee Bridge
Tappan Zee nicht!
At least not in front of Andrew Cuomo, who spent over $1M of the state's
money "correcting" the signs from "Mario Cuomo Bridge" to "Mario M. Cuomo
Bridge." We are not permitted to call it by the name of the bridge it
replaced.
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-01 20:27:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 1 Jan 2020 08:02:11 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by David Kleinecke
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 31 Dec 2019 10:54:55 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Tony Cooper
The
population of Monsey is 22,043 (2017) and the population of Ossining
is 25,407 (2017). The two are roughly the same size.
About 31% of Monsey population is Jewish, and that does not mean the
That's 15 or more times the national average. (There are now more
Muslims than Jews in the US.)
Post by Tony Cooper
population is "nearly-exclusively Hasidic". That group may be
insular, but there are at least 15,000 Monsey residents who may make
the short drive to a popular bar in Ossining and pronounced "Monsey"
in a visit.
IT IS NOT A FUCKING "SHORT DRIVE." JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP.
Speaking of insular attitudes, an American who thinks 21 miles is not
a short drive is the very definition of "insular".
Here we have two towns - Eureka and Fortuna - significantly less
than twenty miles apart. I have lived in both. The doctor in Fortuna -
the smaller city says that most of his patients are very reluctant
to go all the way to the big city - Eureka - to see a specialist.
The road's a freeway and traffic is light.
The road TC thinks Orthodox Jews would take to the prison town across
the mile-wide river and up-and-down several mountains is a tollway with
heavy traffic most of the day.
Perhaps bridges were not in place when mommy took you to summer camp.
How ignorant can you be? How would the Tappan Zee be useful in getting
from NYC to Sussex County? (It opened in 1955. The George Washington
Bridge, the relevant one, opened in 1932.)
Post by Tony Cooper
It's no longer necessary to ford the Hudson. Google estimates the
trip between the towns takes 38 to 40 minutes. The Tappan Zee Bridge
toll is $5 and only on the east-bound side. Not an unaffordable
expense unless you are a part-time editor for hire.
Going up either today or in a few weeks.
Post by Tony Cooper
Who said anything about Orthodox Jews going to the Ossining pub?
Why are you insisting on denying the facts about one of the most heavily
Jewish municipalities in the world outside Israel?
Post by Tony Cooper
That's a total fabrication on your part and you know it. Possibly
based on your total misconception that Monsey is "nearly-exclusively
Hasidic".
There are about 15,000 non-Jewish residents of Monsey, and many of
Your own figure was 31%, or 15 times the national average.
Post by Tony Cooper
them may have visited the pub and pronounced the name of their city of
Why? Unlike in your beloved Anglomania-land, pubs are not renowned
tourist sites sought out from 40 minutes away (if you just looked
that up, it referred to a holiday drive, not an ordinary-day drive).
Post by Tony Cooper
residence on a visit. There are many reasons a resident of Monsey
would go to Ossining from visiting a relative to shopping in places
not present in Monsey. While there, Sing Sing Kill Brewery would be a
place to stop.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Do they really drive 21 miles just to go to a pub in Florida?
Certainly, if there's something on offer at that pub that they want to
see. Pubs like Sing Sing Kill Brewery have musical events that draw
people from great distances like 21 miles. If I was in Monsey, and of
a particular persuasion, I might go to Sing Sing Kill Brewery on
January 15th for "Queer Music Night" featuring the Ossining LGBTQ
Alliance. No cover. Such an event might not be held in Monsey.
Why would someone attracted to the sort of music favored by the employees
of a prison be living in Monsey? It would be far easier to take the
commuter train into the city for a far wider array of musical opportunities.

Including the world-renowned offerings of the 92nd Street Y -- which you
probably don't know is a YM/YWHA, not a YM/YWCA.

Why are you so unable to leave well enough alone?
RH Draney
2019-12-30 20:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
I suppose I would be expected to check out the pronunciation with a
local, and could have called the nearby Sing Sing Kill Brewery in
Ossining NY for local input. Sing Sing is the name of a prison in
Ossining, and Kill Creek runs through Ossining.
Kill Creek?...have we another torpenhow?...r
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-30 20:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by RH Draney
Post by Tony Cooper
I suppose I would be expected to check out the pronunciation with a
local, and could have called the nearby Sing Sing Kill Brewery in
Ossining NY for local input. Sing Sing is the name of a prison in
Ossining, and Kill Creek runs through Ossining.
Kill Creek?...have we another torpenhow?...r
Probably. It's certainly former Dutch territory.

Ossining and Sing Sing (the earlier name of the village) are Munsee
(or Monsey or Muncie) words, perhaps 'stone upon stone'. (Bright,
Dict. U.S. Native Place Names)
Ken Blake
2019-12-30 18:40:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
(Ironically, Sussex County is the northwesternmost county in New Jersey.)
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
It's not pronounced "ah." The first syllable is pronounced to rhyme with
"fun."
Post by Katy Jennison
went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
It's not default American, at least not to any Americans who live near
it. I used to live three or four miles from it, and drove through it
often, so I'm very sure my pronunciation--MUN-see--is correct.
--
Ken
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-30 19:38:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
(Ironically, Sussex County is the northwesternmost county in New Jersey.)
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
It's not pronounced "ah." The first syllable is pronounced to rhyme with
"fun."
Post by Katy Jennison
went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
It's not default American, at least not to any Americans who live near
it. I used to live three or four miles from it, and drove through it
often, so I'm very sure my pronunciation--MUN-see--is correct.
Does this mean that his "killfile" is such that he doesn't even see
_quoted_ material written by a "killfilee"?
Quinn C
2019-12-31 04:20:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
I'm mildly surprised. If no-one had checked the pronunciation, I'd have
expected the BBC to give it the British o which the US doesn't have,
rather than the 'ah' which you represent. I ask myself whether the BBC
in fact picked up the 'ah' pronunciation from an American source which
also didn't investigate the pronunciation and, as you put it, went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
It's not pronounced "ah." The first syllable is pronounced to rhyme with
"fun."
Post by Katy Jennison
went with
'mahnzee', which is default American but not default Brit.
It's not default American, at least not to any Americans who live near
it. I used to live three or four miles from it, and drove through it
often, so I'm very sure my pronunciation--MUN-see--is correct.
And so it is on Wikipedia, since October 18th of this year. Someone
added the pronunciation [mOnzi], but it was changed to [mVnsi] the same
day.
--
(\_/)
(='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste Bunny into your
(")_(") signature to help him gain world domination.
Ross
2019-12-30 20:58:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
? No more surprising than "money".
Post by Peter T. Daniels
(Ironically, Sussex County is the northwesternmost county in New Jersey.)
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-30 21:03:42 UTC
Permalink
[Monsey spelling of Munsee/Muncie]
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
? No more surprising than "money".
"Money" presumably owes its spelling to the minim-avoiding problem when,
say, a u appeared between an m and an n so that there were seven short
vertical strokes in a row. o was substituted for u to make it easier to
read -- in words like come, dove, honey, love, ...

That wasn't on offer when the village was named.
Ross
2019-12-30 22:55:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
[Monsey spelling of Munsee/Muncie]
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
? No more surprising than "money".
"Money" presumably owes its spelling to the minim-avoiding problem when,
say, a u appeared between an m and an n so that there were seven short
vertical strokes in a row. o was substituted for u to make it easier to
read -- in words like come, dove, honey, love, ...
That wasn't on offer when the village was named.
But all the words you mention were.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-31 15:52:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
[Monsey spelling of Munsee/Muncie]
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
? No more surprising than "money".
"Money" presumably owes its spelling to the minim-avoiding problem when,
say, a u appeared between an m and an n so that there were seven short
vertical strokes in a row. o was substituted for u to make it easier to
read -- in words like come, dove, honey, love, ...
That wasn't on offer when the village was named.
But all the words you mention were.
But why would a borrowed word (the name of the tribe, in this case) be
assigned an irregular spelling on the basis of a handful of archaic
spellings whose rationale disappeared several hundred years earlier?
(Even Caxton's first typeface used curvilinear rather than straight
line segments for a modified "gothic" hand.)
Ross
2019-12-31 21:11:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
[Monsey spelling of Munsee/Muncie]
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
? No more surprising than "money".
"Money" presumably owes its spelling to the minim-avoiding problem when,
say, a u appeared between an m and an n so that there were seven short
vertical strokes in a row. o was substituted for u to make it easier to
read -- in words like come, dove, honey, love, ...
That wasn't on offer when the village was named.
But all the words you mention were.
But why would a borrowed word (the name of the tribe, in this case) be
assigned an irregular spelling on the basis of a handful of archaic
spellings whose rationale disappeared several hundred years earlier?
(Even Caxton's first typeface used curvilinear rather than straight
line segments for a modified "gothic" hand.)
The origin of the <o> = /ʌ/ spelling is irrelevant.
The relevant fact is that this spelling exists in a considerable number of very common English words
(come, one, some, love, mother, tongue....), including
a couple (money, monkey) very similar in form to the
Native American ethnonym.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-31 21:16:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
[Monsey spelling of Munsee/Muncie]
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
? No more surprising than "money".
"Money" presumably owes its spelling to the minim-avoiding problem when,
say, a u appeared between an m and an n so that there were seven short
vertical strokes in a row. o was substituted for u to make it easier to
read -- in words like come, dove, honey, love, ...
That wasn't on offer when the village was named.
But all the words you mention were.
But why would a borrowed word (the name of the tribe, in this case) be
assigned an irregular spelling on the basis of a handful of archaic
spellings whose rationale disappeared several hundred years earlier?
(Even Caxton's first typeface used curvilinear rather than straight
line segments for a modified "gothic" hand.)
The origin of the <o> = /ʌ/ spelling is irrelevant.
The relevant fact is that this spelling exists in a considerable number of very common English words
(come, one, some, love, mother, tongue....), including
a couple (money, monkey) very similar in form to the
Native American ethnonym.
What we do not know is how the tribe's name was spelled in earlier records.

scum, bun, sum, tungsten, ...
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-12-30 21:12:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
A newsworthy event occurred in Monsey, New York (just northwest of New York
City) this weekend. The BBC, not bothering to investigate the pronunciation
of the name, went with "MAHN-zee" (I suppose they think of it as "MARN-zee").
In fact it is pronounced like Muncie, Indiana, or Camp Munsee, in Branchville,
Sussex County, NJ, which I attended in the summers of 1964 and 1965. Like
those names, its name is from the prior inhabitants of the area, who (like
many other Native groups) were deported westward (to Indiana) at some point.
The Wikiparticle offers neither a date for its naming nor a rationale for
its somewhat surprising spelling.
? No more surprising than "money".
Or "monk" or "monkey".
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
(Ironically, Sussex County is the northwesternmost county in New Jersey.)
--
athel
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