Discussion:
"Spuggies"
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a***@ashbournecollege.co.uk
2020-01-10 12:31:37 UTC
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I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by British
"The spuggies aren't everybody's cup of tea."
As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of spiritistic
session she is going to. But what exactly does "spuggies" mean?
I haven't found this word in any dictionary and would therefore be
glad if anyone of you could tell me its exact meaning.
Thanks,
M. Kranz
I wonder the exact same question!!!!!!!
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Peter Moylan
2020-01-10 13:25:58 UTC
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Post by a***@ashbournecollege.co.uk
I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by
British authoress Pat Barker: "The spuggies aren't everybody's cup
of tea." As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of
spiritistic session she is going to. But what exactly does
"spuggies" mean? I haven't found this word in any dictionary and
would therefore be glad if anyone of you could tell me its exact
meaning. Thanks, M. Kranz
I wonder the exact same question!!!!!!!
Hasn't this question been answered in the last 22 years? I am reluctant
to go to Google Gropes to see the entire thread.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2020-01-10 15:16:58 UTC
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Permalink
On Sat, 11 Jan 2020 00:25:58 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by a***@ashbournecollege.co.uk
I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by
British authoress Pat Barker: "The spuggies aren't everybody's cup
of tea." As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of
spiritistic session she is going to. But what exactly does
"spuggies" mean? I haven't found this word in any dictionary and
would therefore be glad if anyone of you could tell me its exact
meaning. Thanks, M. Kranz
I wonder the exact same question!!!!!!!
Hasn't this question been answered in the last 22 years? I am reluctant
to go to Google Gropes to see the entire thread.
The OED has "spuggy/spuggies":

Scottish and English regional (chiefly north-eastern).

The house sparrow.

That is unlikely to be the meaning of "spuggy" in the novel.

It is possible the "Sp" comes from "Spiritualist" and "G" comes from
something starting with that letter. "Spuggy" seems to be a nickname. I
am not familiar with spiritualist organisations. One such appears to be
"Spiritualist Association of Great Britain". Its official initialism is
SAGB.

The nickname "Spuggy" might have been created from that name using "Sp"
and "g" with the vowel "u" inserted.

On the other hand the "g" way have come from "Group" in the name of the
organisation nicknamed.

Tangentially: "Spuggy" might be a nickname for regular patrons of a
particular bar and restaurant in Scotland.

The Spiritualist, Glasgow:
https://www.thespiritualistglasgow.com
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-10 17:14:04 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by a***@ashbournecollege.co.uk
I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by
British authoress Pat Barker: "The spuggies aren't everybody's cup
of tea." As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of
spiritistic session she is going to. But what exactly does
"spuggies" mean? I haven't found this word in any dictionary and
would therefore be glad if anyone of you could tell me its exact
meaning. Thanks, M. Kranz
I wonder the exact same question!!!!!!!
Hasn't this question been answered in the last 22 years? I am reluctant
to go to Google Gropes to see the entire thread.
All 11 prior messages?
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-10 17:34:55 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by a***@ashbournecollege.co.uk
I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by
British authoress Pat Barker: "The spuggies aren't everybody's cup
of tea." As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of
spiritistic session she is going to. But what exactly does
"spuggies" mean? I haven't found this word in any dictionary and
would therefore be glad if anyone of you could tell me its exact
meaning. Thanks, M. Kranz
I wonder the exact same question!!!!!!!
Hasn't this question been answered in the last 22 years? I am reluctant
to go to Google Gropes to see the entire thread.
Several people mentioned sparrows. I like Katherine Harper's suggestion
that it was the character's whimsical variant of "spooks".

If anyone's interested in the passage in the book,

https://books.google.com/books?id=aazHAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT46
--
Jerry Friedman
CDB
2020-01-10 20:39:57 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by a***@ashbournecollege.co.uk
I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by
British authoress Pat Barker: "The spuggies aren't everybody's
cup of tea." As context shows, the character is talking about
a kind of spiritistic session she is going to. But what
exactly does "spuggies" mean? I haven't found this word in any
dictionary and would therefore be glad if anyone of you could
tell me its exact meaning. Thanks, M. Kranz
I wonder the exact same question!!!!!!!
Hasn't this question been answered in the last 22 years? I am
reluctant to go to Google Gropes to see the entire thread.
Several people mentioned sparrows. I like Katherine Harper's
suggestion that it was the character's whimsical variant of
"spooks".
In support of that, I have seen it suggested, while looking around, that
the word as used by Basil Bunting in the epigraph of his free-verse poem
"Briggflatts", "The spuggies are fledged" was intended to be pronounced
with a "hard 'g'" and in a Northern accent: ['spUgiz], perhaps.

But there is also the famous tendency of sparrows to fall while God is
watching. Ghosts of the war dead?
Post by Jerry Friedman
If anyone's interested in the passage in the book,
https://books.google.com/books?id=aazHAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT46
Couldn't find it there, but Gooboo has previews.
Katy Jennison
2020-01-10 20:58:00 UTC
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Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by a***@ashbournecollege.co.uk
I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by British
authoress Pat Barker: "The spuggies aren't everybody's cup of tea."
As context shows, the character is talking about
a kind of spiritistic session she is going to. But what
exactly does "spuggies" mean? I haven't found this word in any
dictionary and would therefore be glad if anyone of you could tell
me its exact meaning. Thanks, M. Kranz
I wonder the exact same question!!!!!!!
Hasn't this question been answered in the last 22 years? I am
reluctant to go to Google Gropes to see the entire thread.
Several people mentioned sparrows.  I like Katherine Harper's
suggestion that it was the character's whimsical variant of "spooks".
In support of that, I have seen it suggested, while looking around, that
the word as used by Basil Bunting in the epigraph of his free-verse poem
"Briggflatts", "The spuggies are fledged" was intended to be pronounced
with a "hard 'g'" and in a Northern accent: ['spUgiz], perhaps.
But there is also the famous tendency of sparrows to fall while God is
watching.  Ghosts of the war dead?
If anyone's interested in the passage in the book,
https://books.google.com/books?id=aazHAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT46
Couldn't find it there, but Gooboo has previews.
Common name for sparrows here is 'spadgers', with a soft g. But I
haven't looked up the poem.
--
Katy Jennison
CDB
2020-01-11 14:39:58 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by a***@ashbournecollege.co.uk
I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by
British authoress Pat Barker: "The spuggies aren't
everybody's cup of tea." As context shows, the character is
talking about a kind of spiritistic session she is going
to. But what exactly does "spuggies" mean? I haven't found
this word in any dictionary and would therefore be glad if
anyone of you could tell me its exact meaning. Thanks, M.
Kranz
I wonder the exact same question!!!!!!!
Hasn't this question been answered in the last 22 years? I am
reluctant to go to Google Gropes to see the entire thread.
Several people mentioned sparrows. I like Katherine Harper's
suggestion that it was the character's whimsical variant of
"spooks".
In support of that, I have seen it suggested, while looking around,
that the word as used by Basil Bunting in the epigraph of his
free-verse poem "Briggflatts", "The spuggies are fledged" was
intended to be pronounced with a "hard 'g'" and in a Northern
accent: ['spUgiz], perhaps.
But there is also the famous tendency of sparrows to fall while God
is watching. Ghosts of the war dead?
Post by Jerry Friedman
If anyone's interested in the passage in the book,
https://books.google.com/books?id=aazHAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT46
Couldn't find it there, but Gooboo has previews.
Common name for sparrows here is 'spadgers', with a soft g. But I
haven't looked up the poem.
Poem and word were both new to me, although I read as much of Bunting's
text as I could find. The only use of the word I saw was in the epigraph.

One Northern form of the word that I saw elsewhere was "spog", which I
suppose would have had the hard "g".
Peter Moylan
2020-01-11 21:45:50 UTC
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Post by Katy Jennison
Common name for sparrows here is 'spadgers', with a soft g. But I
haven't looked up the poem.
I'm trying to remember what we called them WIWAL. Something similar but
not identical to that. Possibly spidgies.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter Moylan
2020-01-11 22:11:30 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Katy Jennison
Common name for sparrows here is 'spadgers', with a soft g. But I
haven't looked up the poem.
I'm trying to remember what we called them WIWAL. Something similar but
not identical to that. Possibly spidgies.
Found it. Yes, it was spidgies.

http://ozwords.org/?tag=spidgie

I haven't seen one for many years, by the way. They seem to have
disappeared from this area.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Katy Jennison
2020-01-12 08:08:38 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Common name for sparrows here is 'spadgers', with a soft g.  But I
haven't looked up the poem.
I'm trying to remember what we called them WIWAL. Something similar but
not identical to that. Possibly spidgies.
Found it. Yes, it was spidgies.
    http://ozwords.org/?tag=spidgie
I haven't seen one for many years, by the way. They seem to have
disappeared from this area.
Ah, a excellent list in that link: 'Posted in British dialect, fauna,
regionalism [...]: spadge, spadger, Spadger's Lane, spag, spagger,
sparrow, spidgie, spoggy, sprag, spraggie, sprig, spriggy, spug, spuggy,
spyug, squidgie'
--
Katy Jennison
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-12 18:43:22 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Found it. Yes, it was spidgies.
     http://ozwords.org/?tag=spidgie
I haven't seen one for many years, by the way. They seem to have
disappeared from this area.
Ah, a excellent list in that link: 'Posted in British dialect, fauna,
regionalism [...]: spadge, spadger, Spadger's Lane, spag, spagger,
sparrow, spidgie, spoggy, sprag, spraggie, sprig, spriggy, spug, spuggy,
spyug, squidgie'
Squidgie?? I don't like the sound of that one.
--
Sam Plusnet
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-13 01:26:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Found it. Yes, it was spidgies.
     http://ozwords.org/?tag=spidgie
I haven't seen one for many years, by the way. They seem to have
disappeared from this area.
Ah, a excellent list in that link: 'Posted in British dialect, fauna,
regionalism [...]: spadge, spadger, Spadger's Lane, spag, spagger,
sparrow, spidgie, spoggy, sprag, spraggie, sprig, spriggy, spug,
spuggy, spyug, squidgie'
Squidgie??  I don't like the sound of that one.
Try thinking of something else. Maybe you should have a nice shandy.
--
Jerry Friedman
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-13 19:18:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Moylan
Found it. Yes, it was spidgies.
http://ozwords.org/?tag=spidgie
I haven't seen one for many years, by the way. They seem to have
disappeared from this area.
Ah, a excellent list in that link: 'Posted in British dialect, fauna,
regionalism [...]: spadge, spadger, Spadger's Lane, spag, spagger,
sparrow, spidgie, spoggy, sprag, spraggie, sprig, spriggy, spug, spuggy,
spyug, squidgie'
Squidgie?? I don't like the sound of that one.
Google says it is some kind of Frisbie,

Jan
David Kleinecke
2020-01-12 18:12:53 UTC
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Permalink
Same here. Fifty years ago sparrows were by far the most common birds.
Nowadays they have disappeared in many places.
Cause unknown. There are speculations that it may be some virus.
Some pockets survive though.
I know a motorway stop which has lots of very tame ones.
They will come and sit on your table, expecting to be fed,
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating area.
If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food (pizza,
hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows of
picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and steal
food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging around
for dropped bits.*
Because this annoys some people, Costco tried to reduce the sparrow
population by hiring some people with nets on poles to capture them.
That *greatly* annoyed other people. The problem was that the area is
filled with sparrows during the times when a lot of people are eating,
and any capturing has to be done with witnesses. Costco can't figure
out where the sparrows go in the hours where there are no crowds.
A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my wife
was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a long-skirted dress
was sitting at one of the tables. A floor-scrounging sparrow flew up
her dress.
The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor. Best
time I ever had at Costco.
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.

PS: It is almost certain I will never go back to Hilo again and never
learn whether the HRBs still thrive.
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-13 19:51:33 UTC
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[Costco in Florida]
Post by David Kleinecke
A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my wife
was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a long-skirted dress
was sitting at one of the tables. A floor-scrounging sparrow flew up
her dress.
The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor. Best
time I ever had at Costco.
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
...

Well, this describes House Sparrows as ubiquitous on the Big Island.

https://assets.ventbird.com/document/vent/Fall_Hawaii_2017_Field_Report.pdf/5aaf4652776c900620cd43e4
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Moylan
2020-01-14 01:18:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by David Kleinecke
A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my
wife was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a
long-skirted dress was sitting at one of the tables. A
floor-scrounging sparrow flew up her dress.
The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor.
Best time I ever had at Costco.
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.

One of the Australian immigrant groups (I forget which one) used to call
kookaburras "ha-ha pigeons". I gather that they had a similar taste to
pigeons.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Mack A. Damia
2020-01-14 02:25:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 12:18:44 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my
wife was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a
long-skirted dress was sitting at one of the tables. A
floor-scrounging sparrow flew up her dress.
The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor.
Best time I ever had at Costco.
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
One of the Australian immigrant groups (I forget which one) used to call
kookaburras "ha-ha pigeons". I gather that they had a similar taste to
pigeons.
I can't do it.

When I visited Ensenada for the first time, I had squab for lunch. A
little bony, but it was a novelty.

Some months later, we ended up in Rosarito, and there was a restaurant
called "The Wagon Wheel". As you walk in, there was a large cage of
squabs, and you pick one out and they cook it. No way.

This was almost twenty years ago, and the name is not showing up now,
so it probably closed. I can't do it with trout, either. There is a
restaurant in Pennsylvania with a large trout pond in the garden. Same
procedure. No way.
Peter Young
2020-01-14 11:33:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my
wife was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a
long-skirted dress was sitting at one of the tables. A
floor-scrounging sparrow flew up her dress.
The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor.
Best time I ever had at Costco.
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
Do look at European culinary history.
Small birds were a delicacy, and still are, to some.
In particular the Ortolan was a popular culinary bird
for the rich and the mighty,
Four and twenty blackbirds ...

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-14 13:50:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my
wife was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a
long-skirted dress was sitting at one of the tables. A
floor-scrounging sparrow flew up her dress.
The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor.
Best time I ever had at Costco.
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
Do look at European culinary history.
Small birds were a delicacy, and still are, to some.
In particular the Ortolan was a popular culinary bird
for the rich and the mighty,
Four and twenty blackbirds ...
Yes, and a pocketful of rye too. Poirot stopped all that, didn't he?

I remember having seen an extravagant medieval recipe
for 'stuffed bird' for a banquet. (don't remember the exact details)
It starts with a very big bird, probably a swan,
which is stuffed with a smaller bird,
which is stuffed with a still smaller bird, and so on,
eleven or so deep, down to an ortolan or suchlike in the centre.

Veblen would have liked it,

Jan
Katy Jennison
2020-01-14 14:30:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my
wife was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a
long-skirted dress was sitting at one of the tables. A
floor-scrounging sparrow flew up her dress.
The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor.
Best time I ever had at Costco.
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
Do look at European culinary history.
Small birds were a delicacy, and still are, to some.
In particular the Ortolan was a popular culinary bird
for the rich and the mighty,
Four and twenty blackbirds ...
Yes, and a pocketful of rye too. Poirot stopped all that, didn't he?
I remember having seen an extravagant medieval recipe
for 'stuffed bird' for a banquet. (don't remember the exact details)
It starts with a very big bird, probably a swan,
which is stuffed with a smaller bird,
which is stuffed with a still smaller bird, and so on,
eleven or so deep, down to an ortolan or suchlike in the centre.
Veblen would have liked it,
Lots of that sort of thing available here, especially around Christmas.
Google 'multi-bird roast'.
--
Katy Jennison
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-14 15:06:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my
wife was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a
long-skirted dress was sitting at one of the tables. A
floor-scrounging sparrow flew up her dress.
The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor.
Best time I ever had at Costco.
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
Do look at European culinary history.
Small birds were a delicacy, and still are, to some.
In particular the Ortolan was a popular culinary bird
for the rich and the mighty,
Four and twenty blackbirds ...
Yes, and a pocketful of rye too. Poirot stopped all that, didn't he?
I remember having seen an extravagant medieval recipe
for 'stuffed bird' for a banquet. (don't remember the exact details)
It starts with a very big bird, probably a swan,
which is stuffed with a smaller bird,
which is stuffed with a still smaller bird, and so on,
eleven or so deep, down to an ortolan or suchlike in the centre.
Veblen would have liked it,
Lots of that sort of thing available here, especially around Christmas.
Google 'multi-bird roast'.
Wel, yes, but the point was that in the middle ages
even very small birds got eaten.

BTW, do you really stuff them ten deep or more?

Jan
Katy Jennison
2020-01-14 18:21:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my
wife was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a
long-skirted dress was sitting at one of the tables. A
floor-scrounging sparrow flew up her dress.
The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor.
Best time I ever had at Costco.
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
Do look at European culinary history.
Small birds were a delicacy, and still are, to some.
In particular the Ortolan was a popular culinary bird
for the rich and the mighty,
Four and twenty blackbirds ...
Yes, and a pocketful of rye too. Poirot stopped all that, didn't he?
I remember having seen an extravagant medieval recipe
for 'stuffed bird' for a banquet. (don't remember the exact details)
It starts with a very big bird, probably a swan,
which is stuffed with a smaller bird,
which is stuffed with a still smaller bird, and so on,
eleven or so deep, down to an ortolan or suchlike in the centre.
Veblen would have liked it,
Lots of that sort of thing available here, especially around Christmas.
Google 'multi-bird roast'.
Wel, yes, but the point was that in the middle ages
even very small birds got eaten.
BTW, do you really stuff them ten deep or more?
Not personally, but apparently it's possible to buy them - that is,
various butchers advertise them at Christmas. I don't say it's very common.

The smallest bird seems to be a quail.
--
Katy Jennison
Tony Cooper
2020-01-14 18:54:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:21:06 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Not personally, but apparently it's possible to buy them - that is,
various butchers advertise them at Christmas. I don't say it's very common.
The smallest bird seems to be a quail.
A friend of ours is a hunter and invited us over for dinner. They
served quail that the host had shot. One has to very careful when
eating in those circumstances lest one bite down on a piece of shot.

Personally, the gaining a bite of such a small bird and the danger of
cracking a tooth isn't something I'd look forward to again. I'd
rather be invited over for KFC (fried chicken).
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
RH Draney
2020-01-14 19:41:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:21:06 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Not personally, but apparently it's possible to buy them - that is,
various butchers advertise them at Christmas. I don't say it's very common.
The smallest bird seems to be a quail.
A friend of ours is a hunter and invited us over for dinner. They
served quail that the host had shot. One has to very careful when
eating in those circumstances lest one bite down on a piece of shot.
The only bird for which I've faced that risk was a rabbit....r
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-14 19:53:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
A friend of ours is a hunter and invited us over for dinner. They
served quail that the host had shot. One has to very careful when
eating in those circumstances lest one bite down on a piece of shot.
My uncle hunted deer. My aunt would prepare it but not eat it. We received
the same caution.
Post by Tony Cooper
Personally, the gaining a bite of such a small bird and the danger of
cracking a tooth isn't something I'd look forward to again. I'd
rather be invited over for KFC (fried chicken).
Years ago I anaestetised a farmer who was a keen shooter of game birds. He
complained of severe abdominal pain. The diagnosis was acute appendicitis,
and the abdominal x-ray showed a shotgun pellet at the expected position
of the appendix. The surgeon found a non-inflamed appendix (medical slang,
appendicitis alba vera). He then looked for another cause of the pain, and
found an inflamed Meckel's diverticulum, wherein was the pellet.
A broken tooth is not the only sequela of ingesting lead shot.
Was he advised to chew his food more thoroughly before swallowing?
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-14 21:23:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:21:06 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Not personally, but apparently it's possible to buy them - that is,
various butchers advertise them at Christmas. I don't say it's very common.
The smallest bird seems to be a quail.
A friend of ours is a hunter and invited us over for dinner. They
served quail that the host had shot. One has to very careful when
eating in those circumstances lest one bite down on a piece of shot.
Personally, the gaining a bite of such a small bird and the danger of
cracking a tooth isn't something I'd look forward to again. I'd
rather be invited over for KFC (fried chicken).
Yes, and in these parts the shot is no longer allowed to be lead,
so it is much harder,

Jan
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-14 23:39:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:21:06 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Not personally, but apparently it's possible to buy them - that is,
various butchers advertise them at Christmas. I don't say it's very common.
The smallest bird seems to be a quail.
A friend of ours is a hunter and invited us over for dinner. They
served quail that the host had shot. One has to very careful when
eating in those circumstances lest one bite down on a piece of shot.
Personally, the gaining a bite of such a small bird and the danger of
cracking a tooth isn't something I'd look forward to again. I'd
rather be invited over for KFC (fried chicken).
Yes, and in these parts the shot is no longer allowed to be lead,
so it is much harder,
A place setting for each diner should include cutlery, napkin, wine
glasses, metal detector...
--
Sam Plusnet
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-15 11:47:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:21:06 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Not personally, but apparently it's possible to buy them - that is,
various butchers advertise them at Christmas. I don't say it's very common.
The smallest bird seems to be a quail.
A friend of ours is a hunter and invited us over for dinner. They
served quail that the host had shot. One has to very careful when
eating in those circumstances lest one bite down on a piece of shot.
Personally, the gaining a bite of such a small bird and the danger of
cracking a tooth isn't something I'd look forward to again. I'd
rather be invited over for KFC (fried chicken).
Yes, and in these parts the shot is no longer allowed to be lead,
so it is much harder,
A place setting for each diner should include cutlery, napkin, wine
glasses, metal detector...
No doubt the chef should have done that.
Fortunately Tony is an American.
He can no doubt sue for a couple of million
for emotional damage from having had a tooth broken,

Jan
charles
2020-01-14 21:49:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:21:06 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Not personally, but apparently it's possible to buy them - that is,
various butchers advertise them at Christmas. I don't say it's very common.
The smallest bird seems to be a quail.
A friend of ours is a hunter and invited us over for dinner. They
served quail that the host had shot. One has to very careful when
eating in those circumstances lest one bite down on a piece of shot.
Personally, the gaining a bite of such a small bird and the danger of
cracking a tooth isn't something I'd look forward to again. I'd rather
be invited over for KFC (fried chicken).
Years ago I anaestetised a farmer who was a keen shooter of game birds.
He complained of severe abdominal pain. The diagnosis was acute
appendicitis, and the abdominal x-ray showed a shotgun pellet at the
expected position of the appendix. The surgeon found a non-inflamed
appendix (medical slang, appendicitis alba vera). He then looked for
another cause of the pain, and found an inflamed Meckel's diverticulum,
wherein was the pellet.
A broken tooth is not the only sequela of ingesting lead shot.
I can remember being served "wild duck" in an hotel in Dunoon and being
warned about possible lead shot.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-14 19:25:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my
wife was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a
long-skirted dress was sitting at one of the tables. A
floor-scrounging sparrow flew up her dress.
The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor.
Best time I ever had at Costco.
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
Do look at European culinary history.
Small birds were a delicacy, and still are, to some.
In particular the Ortolan was a popular culinary bird
for the rich and the mighty,
Four and twenty blackbirds ...
Yes, and a pocketful of rye too. Poirot stopped all that, didn't he?
I remember having seen an extravagant medieval recipe
for 'stuffed bird' for a banquet. (don't remember the exact details)
It starts with a very big bird, probably a swan,
which is stuffed with a smaller bird,
which is stuffed with a still smaller bird, and so on,
eleven or so deep, down to an ortolan or suchlike in the centre.
Veblen would have liked it,
Lots of that sort of thing available here, especially around Christmas.
Google 'multi-bird roast'.
Wel, yes, but the point was that in the middle ages
even very small birds got eaten.
BTW, do you really stuff them ten deep or more?
Not personally, but apparently it's possible to buy them - that is,
various butchers advertise them at Christmas. I don't say it's very common.
The smallest bird seems to be a quail.
Yes, readily available in supermarkets.
Produced commercially in quantity nowadays,
just like chickens.

It might amuse you to google 'spreeuwenpot'.
(are those things known in your parts?)
The things were ceramic nesting pots for sparrows,
to be hung on a wall, with a hole in the back
to harvest the young birds just before they would fly out.

Nowadays for garden decoration only,

Jan
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-14 15:09:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
...
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by J. J. Lodder
I remember having seen an extravagant medieval recipe
for 'stuffed bird' for a banquet. (don't remember the exact details)
It starts with a very big bird, probably a swan,
which is stuffed with a smaller bird,
which is stuffed with a still smaller bird, and so on,
eleven or so deep, down to an ortolan or suchlike in the centre.
Veblen would have liked it,
Lots of that sort of thing available here, especially around Christmas.
Google 'multi-bird roast'.
AmE "turducken".
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-14 18:23:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by J. J. Lodder
I remember having seen an extravagant medieval recipe
for 'stuffed bird' for a banquet. (don't remember the exact details)
It starts with a very big bird, probably a swan,
which is stuffed with a smaller bird,
which is stuffed with a still smaller bird, and so on,
eleven or so deep, down to an ortolan or suchlike in the centre.
Veblen would have liked it,
Lots of that sort of thing available here, especially around Christmas.
Google 'multi-bird roast'.
turducken

very well known
Peter Young
2020-01-14 17:24:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my
wife was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a
long-skirted dress was sitting at one of the tables. A
floor-scrounging sparrow flew up her dress.
The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor.
Best time I ever had at Costco.
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
Do look at European culinary history.
Small birds were a delicacy, and still are, to some.
In particular the Ortolan was a popular culinary bird
for the rich and the mighty,
Four and twenty blackbirds ...
Yes, and a pocketful of rye too. Poirot stopped all that, didn't he?
I remember having seen an extravagant medieval recipe
for 'stuffed bird' for a banquet. (don't remember the exact details)
It starts with a very big bird, probably a swan,
which is stuffed with a smaller bird,
which is stuffed with a still smaller bird, and so on,
eleven or so deep, down to an ortolan or suchlike in the centre.
Stuffed camel, anyone?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_stuffed_camel

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-14 17:45:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
A couple of years ago I was sitting at one of the table while my
wife was inside shopping. A rather heavy-set woman in a
long-skirted dress was sitting at one of the tables. A
floor-scrounging sparrow flew up her dress.
The resulting screams, wild gyrations, and attempts to free the
sparrow resulted in two other patrons being knocked to the floor.
Best time I ever had at Costco.
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
Do look at European culinary history.
Small birds were a delicacy, and still are, to some.
In particular the Ortolan was a popular culinary bird
for the rich and the mighty,
Four and twenty blackbirds ...
Yes, and a pocketful of rye too. Poirot stopped all that, didn't he?
I remember having seen an extravagant medieval recipe
for 'stuffed bird' for a banquet. (don't remember the exact details)
It starts with a very big bird, probably a swan,
which is stuffed with a smaller bird,
which is stuffed with a still smaller bird, and so on,
eleven or so deep, down to an ortolan or suchlike in the centre.
Stuffed camel, anyone?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_stuffed_camel
Why don't they put it into an elephant? (If they make it at all.)
--
Jerry Friedman
musika
2020-01-14 18:03:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Young
Post by J. J. Lodder
I remember having seen an extravagant medieval recipe
for 'stuffed bird' for a banquet. (don't remember the exact details)
It starts with a very big bird, probably a swan,
which is stuffed with a smaller bird,
which is stuffed with a still smaller bird, and so on,
eleven or so deep, down to an ortolan or suchlike in the centre.
Stuffed camel, anyone?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_stuffed_camel
Why don't they put it into an elephant? (If they make it at all.)
They couldn't find a big enough oven.
--
Ray
UK
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-14 15:19:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[scrounging]
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
Do look at European culinary history.
Small birds were a delicacy, and still are, to some.
In particular the Ortolan was a popular culinary bird
for the rich and the mighty,
At the other end of the culinary spectrum, the schoolboys (sons of
military officers) in /Stalky & Co./ like sparrows.

"Now they were busy with their Saturday evening businesses—-cooking
sparrows over the gas with rusty nibs; brewing unholy drinks in
gallipots; skinning moles with pocket-knives; attending to paper trays
full of silkworms, or discussing the iniquities of their elders with a
freedom, fluency, and point that would have amazed their parents."
--
Jerry Friedman
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-14 17:40:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by David Kleinecke
We observed the same avian behavior in Hilo - but I don't think the
birds there are sparrows. We call them Hawaiian Restaurant Birds.
Restaurant birds? There wouldn't be much meat on a sparrow.
In comparison to Lark's Tongues?
--
Sam Plusnet
RH Draney
2020-01-12 20:09:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating area.
If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food (pizza,
hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows of
picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and steal
food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging around
for dropped bits.*
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....

Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
and begin eating....r
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-12 22:14:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by RH Draney
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating area.
If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food (pizza,
hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows of
picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and steal
food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging around
for dropped bits.*
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
and begin eating....r
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
Maybe they are just as intelligent,

Jan
RH Draney
2020-01-12 22:29:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by RH Draney
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating area.
If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food (pizza,
hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows of
picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and steal
food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging around
for dropped bits.*
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
and begin eating....r
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
Maybe they are just as intelligent,
Not quite, but higher on the scale than either doves or the raptors we
also have round these parts...they seem to be right on the bubble of
true self-awareness; I've seen some grackles puzzled by their reflection
in a window (apparently assuming it's another bird to be dealt with)
while others recognize it as themselves and set to preening....

I've also seen the leader of a grackle foraging party fight off one of
his (it's always an alpha male) own entourage at a food source that's
plentiful enough to feed everyone...at some point, one of the females
will make a very conspicuous attempt to steal part of what the head
honcho is eating, distracting him just enough that the rest of the group
can come in from behind and grab portions for themselves...he never
seems to catch on to the ploy, and I often wonder if the hens take turns
playing decoy....r
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-13 10:39:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by RH Draney
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by RH Draney
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating area.
If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food (pizza,
hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows of
picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and steal
food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging around
for dropped bits.*
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
and begin eating....r
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
Maybe they are just as intelligent,
Not quite, but higher on the scale than either doves or the raptors we
also have round these parts...they seem to be right on the bubble of
true self-awareness; I've seen some grackles puzzled by their reflection
in a window (apparently assuming it's another bird to be dealt with)
while others recognize it as themselves and set to preening....
Not too hard, doves an raptors are stupid.
I once saw a documentary about the great owls.
The owner of a tamed one described them as 'incredibly stupid'.
Post by RH Draney
I've also seen the leader of a grackle foraging party fight off one of
his (it's always an alpha male) own entourage at a food source that's
plentiful enough to feed everyone...at some point, one of the females
will make a very conspicuous attempt to steal part of what the head
honcho is eating, distracting him just enough that the rest of the group
can come in from behind and grab portions for themselves...he never
seems to catch on to the ploy, and I often wonder if the hens take turns
playing decoy....r
From what those who have systematically observed them
I gather that in European crow-likes the alpha male
and the alpha female work as a team.

I also gathered that their social interactions are milder.
They certainly know what their status is,
but they don't feel the need to demonstrate it all the time,

Jan
Peter Moylan
2020-01-13 15:02:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by RH Draney
Not quite, but higher on the scale than either doves or the raptors
we also have round these parts...they seem to be right on the
bubble of true self-awareness; I've seen some grackles puzzled by
their reflection in a window (apparently assuming it's another bird
to be dealt with) while others recognize it as themselves and set
to preening....
Not too hard, doves an raptors are stupid. I once saw a documentary
about the great owls. The owner of a tamed one described them as
'incredibly stupid'.
A couple of years ago I was sitting at my computer, next to a window,
when I heard a huge bang from the window. I went outside and discovered
a stunned rosella on the ground. After about ten minutes it woke up and
flew away.

A couple of houses ago, we had a tree in the front yard that was
attractive to flying foxes (who navigate by sonar). Our bedroom was in
the front of the house, so in the right season we would hear a
continuous sequence of bangs as the bats collided with the wall of the
house.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-01-13 16:50:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:02:06 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by RH Draney
Not quite, but higher on the scale than either doves or the raptors
we also have round these parts...they seem to be right on the
bubble of true self-awareness; I've seen some grackles puzzled by
their reflection in a window (apparently assuming it's another bird
to be dealt with) while others recognize it as themselves and set
to preening....
Not too hard, doves an raptors are stupid. I once saw a documentary
about the great owls. The owner of a tamed one described them as
'incredibly stupid'.
A couple of years ago I was sitting at my computer, next to a window,
when I heard a huge bang from the window. I went outside and discovered
a stunned rosella on the ground. After about ten minutes it woke up and
flew away.
A couple of houses ago, we had a tree in the front yard that was
attractive to flying foxes (who navigate by sonar). Our bedroom was in
the front of the house, so in the right season we would hear a
continuous sequence of bangs as the bats collided with the wall of the
house.
Your wall is invisble to sonar? Quick, get a patent!
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Peter Moylan
2020-01-14 01:23:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:02:06 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
A couple of houses ago, we had a tree in the front yard that was
attractive to flying foxes (who navigate by sonar). Our bedroom was
in the front of the house, so in the right season we would hear a
continuous sequence of bangs as the bats collided with the wall of
the house.
Your wall is invisble to sonar? Quick, get a patent!
The problem, I suspect, was that the trees were too close to the house,
so there was a confusing cluster of objects to detect. Sonar doesn't
have as good a resolution as light vision.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-14 02:11:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:02:06 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
A couple of houses ago, we had a tree in the front yard that was
attractive to flying foxes (who navigate by sonar). Our bedroom was
in the front of the house, so in the right season we would hear a
continuous sequence of bangs as the bats collided with the wall of
the house.
Your wall is invisble to sonar? Quick, get a patent!
The problem, I suspect, was that the trees were too close to the house,
so there was a confusing cluster of objects to detect. Sonar doesn't
have as good a resolution as light vision.
True, but even a whale's sonar should be able to resolve an object the
size of a house, and I imagine flying foxes operate at higher frequencies.
--
Sam Plusnet
Janet
2020-01-14 12:15:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:02:06 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
A couple of houses ago, we had a tree in the front yard that was
attractive to flying foxes (who navigate by sonar). Our bedroom was
in the front of the house, so in the right season we would hear a
continuous sequence of bangs as the bats collided with the wall of
the house.
Your wall is invisble to sonar? Quick, get a patent!
The problem, I suspect, was that the trees were too close to the house,
so there was a confusing cluster of objects to detect. Sonar doesn't
have as good a resolution as light vision.
True, but even a whale's sonar should be able to resolve an object the
size of a house, and I imagine flying foxes operate at higher frequencies.
Peter hasn't mentioned a whale crashing into his house. Yet.

Janet
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-14 13:50:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:02:06 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
A couple of houses ago, we had a tree in the front yard that was
attractive to flying foxes (who navigate by sonar). Our bedroom was
in the front of the house, so in the right season we would hear a
continuous sequence of bangs as the bats collided with the wall of
the house.
Your wall is invisble to sonar? Quick, get a patent!
The problem, I suspect, was that the trees were too close to the house,
so there was a confusing cluster of objects to detect. Sonar doesn't
have as good a resolution as light vision.
True, but even a whale's sonar should be able to resolve an object the
size of a house, and I imagine flying foxes operate at higher frequencies.
Peter hasn't mentioned a whale crashing into his house. Yet.
There are already whales in space, so that may well come next.
<https://whalesinspace.com/>

Charles Fort would have loved it,

Jan
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-14 17:43:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:02:06 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
A couple of houses ago, we had a tree in the front yard that was
attractive to flying foxes (who navigate by sonar). Our bedroom was
in the front of the house, so in the right season we would hear a
continuous sequence of bangs as the bats collided with the wall of
the house.
Your wall is invisble to sonar? Quick, get a patent!
The problem, I suspect, was that the trees were too close to the house,
so there was a confusing cluster of objects to detect. Sonar doesn't
have as good a resolution as light vision.
True, but even a whale's sonar should be able to resolve an object the
size of a house, and I imagine flying foxes operate at higher frequencies.
Peter hasn't mentioned a whale crashing into his house. Yet.
Has anyone ever questioned him about this?

He's a stoic sort of chap, hardly the type to blubber about such a
misfortune.
--
Sam Plusnet
John Dunlop
2020-01-14 18:28:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Janet
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:02:06 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
A couple of houses ago, we had a tree in the front yard that was
attractive to flying foxes (who navigate by sonar). Our bedroom was
in the front of the house, so in the right season we would hear a
continuous sequence of bangs as the bats collided with the wall of
the house.
Your wall is invisble to sonar? Quick, get a patent!
The problem, I suspect, was that the trees were too close to the house,
so there was a confusing cluster of objects to detect. Sonar doesn't
have as good a resolution as light vision.
True, but even a whale's sonar should be able to resolve an object the
size of a house, and I imagine flying foxes operate at higher frequencies.
Peter hasn't mentioned a whale crashing into his house. Yet.
Has anyone ever questioned him about this?
He's a stoic sort of chap, hardly the type to blubber about such a
misfortune.
Would he even notice? These Aussies have a reputation for being well oiled.
--
John
Phil Hobbs
2020-01-14 22:16:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 15:02:06 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
A couple of houses ago, we had a tree in the front yard that was
attractive to flying foxes (who navigate by sonar). Our bedroom was
in the front of the house, so in the right season we would hear a
continuous sequence of bangs as the bats collided with the wall of
the house.
Your wall is invisble to sonar? Quick, get a patent!
The problem, I suspect, was that the trees were too close to the house,
so there was a confusing cluster of objects to detect. Sonar doesn't
have as good a resolution as light vision.
True,  but even a whale's sonar should be able to resolve an object the
size of a house, and I imagine flying foxes operate at higher frequencies.
A friend of mine from Kuala Lumpur told me that the country folk would
'fish' for flying foxes at the edge of the forest, using kites trailing
treble hooks.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Quinn C
2020-01-14 18:53:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[grackles]
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by RH Draney
Post by J. J. Lodder
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
Maybe they are just as intelligent,
Not quite, but higher on the scale than either doves or the raptors we
also have round these parts...
Not too hard, doves an raptors are stupid.
Hey, you're talking about birds that can distinguish Monet from
Picasso!
--
I don't see people ... as having a right to be idiots. It's
just impractical to try to stop them, unless they're hurting
somebody. -- Vicereine Cordelia
in L. McMaster Bujold, Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen
b***@shaw.ca
2020-01-12 23:14:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by RH Draney
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating area.
If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food (pizza,
hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows of
picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and steal
food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging around
for dropped bits.*
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
and begin eating....r
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
Maybe they are just as intelligent,
They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org. They are common
in the eastern and southern parts of North America and having been
expanding westward, but have not managed to cross the Rocky Mountains.

bill
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-13 02:04:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
...
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by RH Draney
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
and begin eating....r
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
Maybe they are just as intelligent,
They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org.
Yes, but NTBCW the European Blackbird, which is a thrush. American
blackbirds are a family in a large group (*checks Wikipedia*), a
parvorder according to a recent study, whose only Old World
representatives are buntings.

Crows are in a different infraorder, which is the next step up from a
parvorder.
Post by b***@shaw.ca
They are common
in the eastern and southern parts of North America and having been
expanding westward, but have not managed to cross the Rocky Mountains.
More bird pedantry: You're talking about the Common Grackle. R and I
have Great-tailed Grackles, a bigger and more comical bird. Tony Cooper
has Boat-tailed Grackles, which are a lot like Great-tailed.
--
Jerry Friedman
Tony Cooper
2020-01-13 02:23:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 19:04:56 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by RH Draney
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
and begin eating....r
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
Maybe they are just as intelligent,
They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org.
Yes, but NTBCW the European Blackbird, which is a thrush. American
blackbirds are a family in a large group (*checks Wikipedia*), a
parvorder according to a recent study, whose only Old World
representatives are buntings.
Crows are in a different infraorder, which is the next step up from a
parvorder.
Post by b***@shaw.ca
They are common
in the eastern and southern parts of North America and having been
expanding westward, but have not managed to cross the Rocky Mountains.
More bird pedantry: You're talking about the Common Grackle. R and I
have Great-tailed Grackles, a bigger and more comical bird. Tony Cooper
has Boat-tailed Grackles, which are a lot like Great-tailed.
Like this one? Photographed on the shore of Lake Monroe.

https://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Birds/i-7p5LZFL/A
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-13 04:28:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 19:04:56 -0700, Jerry Friedman
[grackles]
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by b***@shaw.ca
They are common
in the eastern and southern parts of North America and having been
expanding westward, but have not managed to cross the Rocky Mountains.
More bird pedantry: You're talking about the Common Grackle. R and I
have Great-tailed Grackles, a bigger and more comical bird. Tony Cooper
has Boat-tailed Grackles, which are a lot like Great-tailed.
Like this one? Photographed on the shore of Lake Monroe.
https://tonycooper.smugmug.com/Birds/i-7p5LZFL/A
Very much like that one.
--
Jerry Friedman
b***@shaw.ca
2020-01-13 07:16:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by RH Draney
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
and begin eating....r
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
Maybe they are just as intelligent,
They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org.
Yes, but NTBCW the European Blackbird, which is a thrush. American
blackbirds are a family in a large group (*checks Wikipedia*), a
parvorder according to a recent study, whose only Old World
representatives are buntings.
Crows are in a different infraorder, which is the next step up from a
parvorder.
I've got to know the localnorthwestern crows a little. I've followed their
daily migration from their foraging territories back to their main
roost in this area. I live near a park where up to several hundred
of them meet a couple of times a day, apparently to exchange information
about how the day is going. They seemed to be quite organized.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by b***@shaw.ca
They are common
in the eastern and southern parts of North America and having been
expanding westward, but have not managed to cross the Rocky Mountains.
More bird pedantry: You're talking about the Common Grackle. R and I
have Great-tailed Grackles, a bigger and more comical bird. Tony Cooper
has Boat-tailed Grackles, which are a lot like Great-tailed.
I used to see what might have been the last crested myna in Vancouver.
They were introduced here in the 1890s, thrived for a time, and
disappeared in the early 2000s. I often saw one in the 1990s
on a shopping street in East Vancouver.

bill
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-14 15:14:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by RH Draney
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
and begin eating....r
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
Maybe they are just as intelligent,
They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org.
Yes, but NTBCW the European Blackbird, which is a thrush. American
blackbirds are a family in a large group (*checks Wikipedia*), a
parvorder according to a recent study, whose only Old World
representatives are buntings.
Crows are in a different infraorder, which is the next step up from a
parvorder.
Stamp collecting gone crazy,
It keeps people from thinking that looking like a crow might mean it's
equally intelligent.
--
Jerry Friedman
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-14 16:04:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by RH Draney
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table...some
would grab a packet and fly off with it to be dealt with elsewhere;
others would pull one out and peck it open right there on the tabletop
and begin eating....r
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
Maybe they are just as intelligent,
They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org.
Yes, but NTBCW the European Blackbird, which is a thrush. American
blackbirds are a family in a large group (*checks Wikipedia*), a
parvorder according to a recent study, whose only Old World
representatives are buntings.
Crows are in a different infraorder, which is the next step up from a
parvorder.
Stamp collecting gone crazy,
It keeps people from thinking that looking like a crow might mean it's
equally intelligent.
My my, do you really believe that stamp collecting is done
on basis of the intelligence of the stamps?

Jan
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-14 17:48:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[sugar-scrounging grackles]
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
Maybe they are just as intelligent,
They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org.
Yes, but NTBCW the European Blackbird, which is a thrush. American
blackbirds are a family in a large group (*checks Wikipedia*), a
parvorder according to a recent study, whose only Old World
representatives are buntings.
Crows are in a different infraorder, which is the next step up from a
parvorder.
Stamp collecting gone crazy,
It keeps people from thinking that looking like a crow might mean it's
equally intelligent.
My my, do you really believe that stamp collecting is done
on basis of the intelligence of the stamps?
No, that would be as silly as believing that the intelligence of birds
is correlated with their plumage color.

"It's in the crow family, so it might be among the more intelligent
birds" would be a sensible statement.
--
Jerry Friedman
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-14 18:33:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
[sugar-scrounging grackles]
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of crow.
Maybe they are just as intelligent,
They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org.
Yes, but NTBCW the European Blackbird, which is a thrush. American
blackbirds are a family in a large group (*checks Wikipedia*), a
parvorder according to a recent study, whose only Old World
representatives are buntings.
Crows are in a different infraorder, which is the next step up from a
parvorder.
Stamp collecting gone crazy,
It keeps people from thinking that looking like a crow might mean it's
equally intelligent.
My my, do you really believe that stamp collecting is done
on basis of the intelligence of the stamps?
No, that would be as silly as believing that the intelligence of birds
is correlated with their plumage color.
"It's in the crow family, so it might be among the more intelligent
birds" would be a sensible statement.
Your 'might' is better than my 'maybe'?

Jan
CDB
2020-01-15 14:31:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Jerry Friedman
[sugar-scrounging grackles]
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of
crow. Maybe they are just as intelligent,
They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org.
Yes, but NTBCW the European Blackbird, which is a thrush.
American blackbirds are a family in a large group (*checks
Wikipedia*), a parvorder according to a recent study, whose
only Old World representatives are buntings.
Crows are in a different infraorder, which is the next step
up from a parvorder.
Stamp collecting gone crazy,
It keeps people from thinking that looking like a crow might
mean it's equally intelligent.
My my, do you really believe that stamp collecting is done on
basis of the intelligence of the stamps?
No, that would be as silly as believing that the intelligence of
birds is correlated with their plumage color.
"It's in the crow family, so it might be among the more
intelligent birds" would be a sensible statement.
Your 'might' is better than my 'maybe'?
"Among the more intelligent birds" is more prudent than "just as
intelligent [as crows]".
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-15 14:58:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Jerry Friedman
[sugar-scrounging grackles]
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by J. J. Lodder
Unknown in rightpondia, but they look like some kind of
crow. Maybe they are just as intelligent,
They are a large blackbird, according to audubon.org.
Yes, but NTBCW the European Blackbird, which is a thrush.
American blackbirds are a family in a large group (*checks
Wikipedia*), a parvorder according to a recent study, whose
only Old World representatives are buntings.
Crows are in a different infraorder, which is the next step
up from a parvorder.
Stamp collecting gone crazy,
It keeps people from thinking that looking like a crow might
mean it's equally intelligent.
My my, do you really believe that stamp collecting is done on
basis of the intelligence of the stamps?
No, that would be as silly as believing that the intelligence of
birds is correlated with their plumage color.
"It's in the crow family, so it might be among the more
intelligent birds" would be a sensible statement.
Your 'might' is better than my 'maybe'?
"Among the more intelligent birds" is more prudent than "just as
intelligent [as crows]".
Maybe,

Jan
Anders D. Nygaard
2020-01-14 21:32:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by RH Draney
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table
Stupid question from a non-native: Is sugar considered a condiment?
I associate the term with ketchup, worcestershire sauce, pickles, etc.

/Anders, Denmark
Tony Cooper
2020-01-14 21:53:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 22:32:57 +0100, "Anders D. Nygaard"
Post by Anders D. Nygaard
Post by RH Draney
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table
Stupid question from a non-native: Is sugar considered a condiment?
I associate the term with ketchup, worcestershire sauce, pickles, etc.
You are correct, but so is Mr Draney. The comment was that the birds
were raiding the condiment basket. In many US restaurants, a basket
or some sort of container will be placed on the table, and it will
contain salt, pepper, ketchup, (sometimes) jelly, and sugar packets.

The container, if a basket, is a condiment basket. A websearch says
the "baskets" are sold as "condiment caddies". Images are available.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
b***@shaw.ca
2020-01-15 02:03:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anders D. Nygaard
Post by RH Draney
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table
Stupid question from a non-native: Is sugar considered a condiment?
I associate the term with ketchup, worcestershire sauce, pickles, etc.
A condiment is defined as a seasoning or relish for food, and the
things you mentioned qualify. I don't think sugar qualifies unless
you bend the meaning a bit. I think of it as a leading member
of the category of sweeteners.

bill
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-01-15 08:47:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anders D. Nygaard
Post by RH Draney
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table
Stupid question from a non-native: Is sugar considered a condiment?
not by me
Post by Anders D. Nygaard
I associate the term with ketchup, worcestershire sauce, pickles, etc.
correct (except that we say "Worcester sauce")
--
athel
Peter Young
2020-01-15 09:42:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Anders D. Nygaard
Post by RH Draney
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived and
operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I *thought*
were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed it out to a
waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're taking packets of
sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table
Stupid question from a non-native: Is sugar considered a condiment?
not by me
Post by Anders D. Nygaard
I associate the term with ketchup, worcestershire sauce, pickles, etc.
correct (except that we say "Worcester sauce")
I don't.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-15 18:30:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Anders D. Nygaard
Post by RH Draney
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived
and operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I
*thought* were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed
it out to a waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're
taking packets of sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table
Stupid question from a non-native: Is sugar considered a condiment?
not by me
Nor by me, but in restaurant terms it can fall into the category of
"optional extras we make available to our customers without charge", so
it's not too big a stretch.
--
Sam Plusnet
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-15 20:15:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Anders D. Nygaard
Post by RH Draney
I once watched a bunch (can't really call 'em a flock; they arrived
and operated separately) of grackles at an outdoor table that I
*thought* were harvesting someone's leftover french fries...pointed
it out to a waiter and he corrected me: "no", he said, "they're
taking packets of sugar"....
Sure enough, they were raiding the condiment basket at the table
Stupid question from a non-native: Is sugar considered a condiment?
not by me
Nor by me, but in restaurant terms it can fall into the category of
"optional extras we make available to our customers without charge", so
it's not too big a stretch.
Suckers who don't use sugar pay for the others...

Jan

Peter Moylan
2020-01-13 14:53:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating
area. If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food
(pizza, hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows
of picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and
steal food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging
around for dropped bits.*
We don't have that problem here, but seagulls will try to steal your
food if you're eating at or near the beach.

Some years ago we had a problem with frozen chickens attacking homes,
sometimes even creating a hole in someone's roof. It turned out that a
business selling chickens was putting its surplus into a big garbage
bin. Pelicans would grab a chicken, then fly high, then realise that the
chicken was too heavy to carry, so a frozen chicken would fall from the
sky. It took a couple of weeks to discover the cause.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-01-13 16:48:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:53:47 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating
area. If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food
(pizza, hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows
of picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and
steal food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging
around for dropped bits.*
We don't have that problem here, but seagulls will try to steal your
food if you're eating at or near the beach.
Some years ago we had a problem with frozen chickens attacking homes,
sometimes even creating a hole in someone's roof. It turned out that a
business selling chickens was putting its surplus into a big garbage
bin. Pelicans would grab a chicken, then fly high, then realise that the
chicken was too heavy to carry, so a frozen chicken would fall from the
sky. It took a couple of weeks to discover the cause.
Not airplane testing then?
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/catapoultry/
</urban myth>
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
RH Draney
2020-01-13 20:21:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:53:47 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Some years ago we had a problem with frozen chickens attacking homes,
sometimes even creating a hole in someone's roof. It turned out that a
business selling chickens was putting its surplus into a big garbage
bin. Pelicans would grab a chicken, then fly high, then realise that
the
Post by Peter Moylan
chicken was too heavy to carry, so a frozen chicken would fall from the
sky. It took a couple of weeks to discover the cause.
Not airplane testing then?
Space-chickens falling from orbit!...r
Tony Cooper
2020-01-13 20:46:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 01:53:47 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating
area. If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food
(pizza, hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows
of picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and
steal food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging
around for dropped bits.*
We don't have that problem here, but seagulls will try to steal your
food if you're eating at or near the beach.
Some years ago we had a problem with frozen chickens attacking homes,
sometimes even creating a hole in someone's roof. It turned out that a
business selling chickens was putting its surplus into a big garbage
bin. Pelicans would grab a chicken, then fly high, then realise that the
chicken was too heavy to carry, so a frozen chicken would fall from the
sky. It took a couple of weeks to discover the cause.
There was a time in Argentina where one might know of a human body
dropped from the sky. One of Juan Perón's ways of dealing with
dissidents was to have them taken up in an airplane and tossed out.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-13 21:33:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 01:53:47 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating
area. If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food
(pizza, hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows
of picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and
steal food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging
around for dropped bits.*
We don't have that problem here, but seagulls will try to steal your
food if you're eating at or near the beach.
Some years ago we had a problem with frozen chickens attacking homes,
sometimes even creating a hole in someone's roof. It turned out that a
business selling chickens was putting its surplus into a big garbage
bin. Pelicans would grab a chicken, then fly high, then realise that the
chicken was too heavy to carry, so a frozen chicken would fall from the
sky. It took a couple of weeks to discover the cause.
There was a time in Argentina where one might know of a human body
dropped from the sky. One of Juan Perón's ways of dealing with
dissidents was to have them taken up in an airplane and tossed out.
Over the ocean, and it was the Videla regime,

Jan
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-14 02:17:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 01:53:47 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating
area. If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food
(pizza, hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows
of picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and
steal food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging
around for dropped bits.*
We don't have that problem here, but seagulls will try to steal your
food if you're eating at or near the beach.
Some years ago we had a problem with frozen chickens attacking homes,
sometimes even creating a hole in someone's roof. It turned out that a
business selling chickens was putting its surplus into a big garbage
bin. Pelicans would grab a chicken, then fly high, then realise that the
chicken was too heavy to carry, so a frozen chicken would fall from the
sky. It took a couple of weeks to discover the cause.
There was a time in Argentina where one might know of a human body
dropped from the sky. One of Juan Perón's ways of dealing with
dissidents was to have them taken up in an airplane and tossed out.
None of these people were tossed out, but quite a few fell to earth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wheel-well_stowaway_flights
--
Sam Plusnet
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-14 10:36:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Same here. Fifty years ago sparrows were by far the most common birds.
Nowadays they have disappeared in many places.
Cause unknown. There are speculations that it may be some virus.
Some pockets survive though.
I know a motorway stop which has lots of very tame ones.
They will come and sit on your table, expecting to be fed,
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating area.
If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food (pizza,
hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows of
picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and steal
food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging around
for dropped bits.*
I passed on your stories to a birding friend.
She tells me that there is a Great Tit population
at one of her preferred outdoor cafes.
She orders coffee with whipped cream there, which she detests,
especially for the Tits.
The Great Tits will come to collect their share of the cream.
They will even sit on the rim of the cup.
Having learned this way that humans are harmless
they will also eat cake crumbs from an outstreched hand.

Jan
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-14 17:54:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Same here. Fifty years ago sparrows were by far the most common birds.
Nowadays they have disappeared in many places.
Cause unknown. There are speculations that it may be some virus.
Some pockets survive though.
I know a motorway stop which has lots of very tame ones.
They will come and sit on your table, expecting to be fed,
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating area.
If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food (pizza,
hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows of
picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and steal
food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging around
for dropped bits.*
I passed on your stories to a birding friend.
She tells me that there is a Great Tit population
at one of her preferred outdoor cafes.
She orders coffee with whipped cream there, which she detests,
especially for the Tits.
The Great Tits will come to collect their share of the cream.
They will even sit on the rim of the cup.
Having learned this way that humans are harmless
they will also eat cake crumbs from an outstreched hand.
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.

Whole, non-homogenised milk was the default choice back then. I can't
recall if Blue Tits learned to recognise, and avoid, skimmed milk.
--
Sam Plusnet
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-14 18:33:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Same here. Fifty years ago sparrows were by far the most common birds.
Nowadays they have disappeared in many places.
Cause unknown. There are speculations that it may be some virus.
Some pockets survive though.
I know a motorway stop which has lots of very tame ones.
They will come and sit on your table, expecting to be fed,
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating area.
If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food (pizza,
hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows of
picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and steal
food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging around
for dropped bits.*
I passed on your stories to a birding friend.
She tells me that there is a Great Tit population
at one of her preferred outdoor cafes.
She orders coffee with whipped cream there, which she detests,
especially for the Tits.
The Great Tits will come to collect their share of the cream.
They will even sit on the rim of the cup.
Having learned this way that humans are harmless
they will also eat cake crumbs from an outstreched hand.
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Perhaps, but this one (start at 0:10 out of 1:14)
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/tits-pecking-milk-bottles-epidemic/z6xhqp3>
certainly looks like a Great Tit.

It is generally taken as an example of cultural behaviour.
One bird invented the trick, the others learned it.

Maybe they have forgotten again by now,

Jan
Peter Young
2020-01-14 18:48:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by J. J. Lodder
Same here. Fifty years ago sparrows were by far the most common birds.
Nowadays they have disappeared in many places.
Cause unknown. There are speculations that it may be some virus.
Some pockets survive though.
I know a motorway stop which has lots of very tame ones.
They will come and sit on your table, expecting to be fed,
The Costco that my wife shops in has a (covered) outdoor seating area.
If you order food you do so at a window and then take the food (pizza,
hot dogs, and other things) to a table. The tables are rows of
picnic-like wooden tables with bench seats.
The diner has to fight off the sparrows lest they swoop down and steal
food right off the table. They are also underfoot scrounging around
for dropped bits.*
I passed on your stories to a birding friend.
She tells me that there is a Great Tit population
at one of her preferred outdoor cafes.
She orders coffee with whipped cream there, which she detests,
especially for the Tits.
The Great Tits will come to collect their share of the cream.
They will even sit on the rim of the cup.
Having learned this way that humans are harmless
they will also eat cake crumbs from an outstreched hand.
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Post by Sam Plusnet
Whole, non-homogenised milk was the default choice back then. I can't
recall if Blue Tits learned to recognise, and avoid, skimmed milk.
I get semi-skimmed milk now, but in the long-ago days when we had whole
milk it wasn't unusual for the blue-tits to have pecked a hole in the foil
lid. I still have blue and great tits in the garden.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-15 01:12:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
--
Sam Plusnet
b***@shaw.ca
2020-01-15 02:09:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
What we have here now is parcels delivered on behalf of Amazon. There is
a growing trend of the delivery services leaving the parcels on
the doorsteps of people who are not home, another trend of other
people stealing the parcels, and another of the thieves being
captured on security cameras.

Here in urban Vancouver, Amazon usually uses the post office for
delivery, and the post office leaves a sticky note informing
the buyer at which post office and after what time the parcel
can be picked up.

bill
Tony Cooper
2020-01-15 04:44:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
What we have here now is parcels delivered on behalf of Amazon. There is
a growing trend of the delivery services leaving the parcels on
the doorsteps of people who are not home, another trend of other
people stealing the parcels, and another of the thieves being
captured on security cameras.
We have had several online orders delivered by Amazon, UPS, and the
USPS. Several. All of them leave the package outside of the door
without requiring us to accept them.

Some of them ring the doorbell and then leave. Some of them
photograph the package leaning against the door and send us that
photograph by text. Others just leave the package and go.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
s***@gmail.com
2020-01-15 05:36:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
What we have here now is parcels delivered on behalf of Amazon. There is
a growing trend of the delivery services leaving the parcels on
the doorsteps of people who are not home, another trend of other
people stealing the parcels, and another of the thieves being
captured on security cameras.
We have had several online orders delivered by Amazon, UPS, and the
USPS. Several. All of them leave the package outside of the door
without requiring us to accept them.
Some of them ring the doorbell and then leave. Some of them
photograph the package leaning against the door and send us that
photograph by text. Others just leave the package and go.
You're avoiding the "signature required" items?
Bignum$ and certain product types may fall into that category.


/dps
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-01-15 08:45:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
What we have here now is parcels delivered on behalf of Amazon. There is
a growing trend of the delivery services leaving the parcels on
the doorsteps of people who are not home, another trend of other
people stealing the parcels, and another of the thieves being
captured on security cameras.
We have had several online orders delivered by Amazon, UPS, and the
USPS. Several. All of them leave the package outside of the door
without requiring us to accept them.
Some of them ring the doorbell and then leave. Some of them
photograph the package leaning against the door and send us that
photograph by text. Others just leave the package and go.
You're avoiding the "signature required" items?
Bignum$ and certain product types may fall into that category.
Wouldn't work in France, where "signatures" are just illegible scribbles.
--
athel
Tony Cooper
2020-01-15 15:24:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 09:45:02 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Tony Cooper
We have had several online orders delivered by Amazon, UPS, and the
USPS. Several. All of them leave the package outside of the door
without requiring us to accept them.
Some of them ring the doorbell and then leave. Some of them
photograph the package leaning against the door and send us that
photograph by text. Others just leave the package and go.
You're avoiding the "signature required" items?
Bignum$ and certain product types may fall into that category.
Wouldn't work in France, where "signatures" are just illegible scribbles.
A scribble is the only authentic version of my signature. Back in the
day when we wrote checks instead of offering plastic, my bank refused
a check I had written to a vet because the signature obviously wasn't
mine.

I had badly sprained my left wrist and it was heavily taped up.
Consequently, when I wrote the check, my usual handwriting was
impaired. All of the letters in my name were clear and the name on
the signature line could be read. Obviously, that was not my
authentic signature.

I don't think bank personnel actually look at checks and endorsements
today. They just feed them through a machine if there is some mark in
the right space.

On the "signature required" subject, only packages and letters where
the sender has required a signature on delivery is this done. There
is an extra charge for this.

Most of what I order online is an item available with Amazon Prime so
I don't pay a shipping charge. Amazon isn't going to incur an extra
expense.

The only items I can remember receiving in recent years where I had to
sign to take delivery have been letters from lawyers. They don't mind
the extra expense because they will bill it to the client at more than
their cost.

If a lawyer sends a letter with only a first-class stamp, they
probably bill the client for licking the stamp.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Katy Jennison
2020-01-15 17:13:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 09:45:02 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Tony Cooper
We have had several online orders delivered by Amazon, UPS, and the
USPS. Several. All of them leave the package outside of the door
without requiring us to accept them.
Some of them ring the doorbell and then leave. Some of them
photograph the package leaning against the door and send us that
photograph by text. Others just leave the package and go.
You're avoiding the "signature required" items?
Bignum$ and certain product types may fall into that category.
Wouldn't work in France, where "signatures" are just illegible scribbles.
A scribble is the only authentic version of my signature. Back in the
day when we wrote checks instead of offering plastic, my bank refused
a check I had written to a vet because the signature obviously wasn't
mine.
I had badly sprained my left wrist and it was heavily taped up.
Consequently, when I wrote the check, my usual handwriting was
impaired. All of the letters in my name were clear and the name on
the signature line could be read. Obviously, that was not my
authentic signature.
I don't think bank personnel actually look at checks and endorsements
today. They just feed them through a machine if there is some mark in
the right space.
On the "signature required" subject, only packages and letters where
the sender has required a signature on delivery is this done. There
is an extra charge for this.
We sometimes have to sign for things being delivered. The deliverer
produces a device about the size of a cell phone, with a touch-screen
upon which one is required to sign, using the tip of one's finger. This
naturally bears absolutely no resemblance to any signature produced in
the normal way with a pen.

And it's not at all necessary for the name being signed, even if it were
legible, to be the same as the name of the addressee. It's simply there
to indicate that the package has been handed over and is now out of the
delivery person's hands.
--
Katy Jennison
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-01-15 17:26:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 15 Jan 2020 09:45:02 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Tony Cooper
We have had several online orders delivered by Amazon, UPS, and the
USPS. Several. All of them leave the package outside of the door
without requiring us to accept them.
Some of them ring the doorbell and then leave. Some of them
photograph the package leaning against the door and send us that
photograph by text. Others just leave the package and go.
You're avoiding the "signature required" items?
Bignum$ and certain product types may fall into that category.
Wouldn't work in France, where "signatures" are just illegible scribbles.
A scribble is the only authentic version of my signature. Back in the
day when we wrote checks instead of offering plastic, my bank refused
a check I had written to a vet because the signature obviously wasn't
mine.
I had badly sprained my left wrist and it was heavily taped up.
Consequently, when I wrote the check, my usual handwriting was
impaired. All of the letters in my name were clear and the name on
the signature line could be read. Obviously, that was not my
authentic signature.
I don't think bank personnel actually look at checks and endorsements
today. They just feed them through a machine if there is some mark in
the right space.
On the "signature required" subject, only packages and letters where
the sender has required a signature on delivery is this done. There
is an extra charge for this.
We sometimes have to sign for things being delivered. The deliverer
produces a device about the size of a cell phone, with a touch-screen
upon which one is required to sign, using the tip of one's finger.
This naturally bears absolutely no resemblance to any signature
produced in the normal way with a pen.
Yes. Those machins (to borrow a word from another thread) are horrible.
Post by Katy Jennison
And it's not at all necessary for the name being signed, even if it
were legible, to be the same as the name of the addressee. It's simply
there to indicate that the package has been handed over and is now out
of the delivery person's hands.
--
athel
charles
2020-01-15 09:25:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
What we have here now is parcels delivered on behalf of Amazon. There is
a growing trend of the delivery services leaving the parcels on
the doorsteps of people who are not home, another trend of other
people stealing the parcels, and another of the thieves being
captured on security cameras.
We have had several online orders delivered by Amazon, UPS, and the
USPS. Several. All of them leave the package outside of the door
without requiring us to accept them.
Some of them ring the doorbell and then leave. Some of them
photograph the package leaning against the door and send us that
photograph by text. Others just leave the package and go.
You're avoiding the "signature required" items?
Bignum$ and certain product types may fall into that category.
I've had various "signature required" items just dumped on the doorstep -
no attempt to ring the bell.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-15 18:35:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
What we have here now is parcels delivered on behalf of Amazon. There is
a growing trend of the delivery services leaving the parcels on
the doorsteps of people who are not home, another trend of other
people stealing the parcels, and another of the thieves being
captured on security cameras.
We have had several online orders delivered by Amazon, UPS, and the
USPS. Several. All of them leave the package outside of the door
without requiring us to accept them.
Some of them ring the doorbell and then leave. Some of them
photograph the package leaning against the door and send us that
photograph by text. Others just leave the package and go.
You're avoiding the "signature required" items?
Bignum$ and certain product types may fall into that category.
I've had various "signature required" items just dumped on the doorstep -
no attempt to ring the bell.
The delivery person knows better than anyone that getting a recognisable
'signature' on one of those hand-held gadgets is impossible.
They just add their own squiggle and save all that hanging around on the
doorstep.
--
Sam Plusnet
David Kleinecke
2020-01-15 18:55:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
What we have here now is parcels delivered on behalf of Amazon. There is
a growing trend of the delivery services leaving the parcels on
the doorsteps of people who are not home, another trend of other
people stealing the parcels, and another of the thieves being
captured on security cameras.
We have had several online orders delivered by Amazon, UPS, and the
USPS. Several. All of them leave the package outside of the door
without requiring us to accept them.
Some of them ring the doorbell and then leave. Some of them
photograph the package leaning against the door and send us that
photograph by text. Others just leave the package and go.
You're avoiding the "signature required" items?
Bignum$ and certain product types may fall into that category.
We had a thousand dollar item delivered yesterday and among the
things they left was a receipt for delivery which they just tossed
into the trash.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-01-15 08:43:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
What we have here now is parcels delivered on behalf of Amazon. There is
a growing trend of the delivery services leaving the parcels on
the doorsteps of people who are not home, another trend of other
people stealing the parcels, and another of the thieves being
captured on security cameras.
Here we can get such parcels delivered to the local Arab shop (the sort
of shop that is almost never closed and sells mainly groceries,
together with anything else that customers might want to buy, such as
vodka; in Birmingham when I lived there such shops were called
Pakistani shops).
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Here in urban Vancouver, Amazon usually uses the post office for
delivery, and the post office leaves a sticky note informing
the buyer at which post office and after what time the parcel
can be picked up.
bill
--
athel
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-15 14:58:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
What we have here now is parcels delivered on behalf of Amazon. There is
a growing trend of the delivery services leaving the parcels on
the doorsteps of people who are not home, another trend of other
people stealing the parcels, and another of the thieves being
captured on security cameras.
Here in urban Vancouver, Amazon usually uses the post office for
delivery, and the post office leaves a sticky note informing
the buyer at which post office and after what time the parcel
can be picked up.
DHL have found another method.
They send you an email about when your parcel will arrive.
(with a margin of 10 hours or so)
You stay at home, waiting all day for them, they don't show up.
Then you get a mail telling you that regretfully you were not at home,
and you can collect your parcel at some collection point next day.

If this infuriates you sufficiently to complain loudly
they will offer you a voucher worth 80 cents,
valid if you make a shipment with them,

Jan
s***@gmail.com
2020-01-15 05:37:35 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
"Uber Eats".

/dps
RH Draney
2020-01-15 08:26:50 UTC
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Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
"Uber Eats".
It certainly does...with its mouth open....r
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-15 18:39:04 UTC
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Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Young
Post by Sam Plusnet
Back in the days when milk (in the UK) was delivered to the doorstep, it
was routine to find the aluminium foil lids pecked and some of the
cream[1] taken. The usual suspects then were Blue Tits.
Oy! I still get milk delivered to my house three times a week. I like to
support local businesses.
Maybe the economics of doorstep delivery still work in Cheltenham.
It must be at least 15 years since it was available here.
"Uber Eats".
Ah! You must be one of those Cityfied folk.
--
Sam Plusnet
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-01-15 08:39:16 UTC
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Post by J. J. Lodder
[ … ]
I passed on your stories to a birding friend.
She tells me that there is a Great Tit population
Years ago there was an article in The Listener (an up-market magazine
for listeners to the radio -- I don't know if it still exists) intended
to be called "A pair of great tits" but changed to "A great pair of
tits" by a mischievous typesetter.
Post by J. J. Lodder
at one of her preferred outdoor cafes.
She orders coffee with whipped cream there, which she detests,
especially for the Tits.
The Great Tits will come to collect their share of the cream.
They will even sit on the rim of the cup.
Having learned this way that humans are harmless
they will also eat cake crumbs from an outstreched hand.
Jan
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-15 14:36:08 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Years ago there was an article in The Listener (an up-market magazine
for listeners to the radio --
It seems originally to have carried the transcriptions of radio lectures
and conversations. The latter were quite bizarre: the interviewer and
the subject would have a conversation, which would be recorded and
transcribed, and then the interviewer and the subject would read the
edited transcript, and that reading is what would be broadcast. (See
the book about C. S. Lewis's wartime relationship with the BBC.)

The Listener crossword is the proverbially most nearly unsolvable of
any that are published.

(Could "insoluble" be used there?)
s***@gmail.com
2020-01-13 22:25:37 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by a***@ashbournecollege.co.uk
I read the following phrase in "The ghost road", a novel by
British authoress Pat Barker: "The spuggies aren't everybody's cup
of tea." As context shows, the character is talking about a kind of
spiritistic session she is going to. But what exactly does
"spuggies" mean? I haven't found this word in any dictionary and
would therefore be glad if anyone of you could tell me its exact
meaning. Thanks, M. Kranz
I wonder the exact same question!!!!!!!
Hasn't this question been answered in the last 22 years? I am reluctant
to go to Google Gropes to see the entire thread.
Several people mentioned sparrows. I like Katherine Harper's suggestion
that it was the character's whimsical variant of "spooks".
If anyone's interested in the passage in the book,
https://books.google.com/books?id=aazHAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT46
I would guess it refers to The Society for the Propagation of the
Gospel.
So maybe leaves instead of feathers, tracts instead of bills.

/dps
Anders D. Nygaard
2020-01-10 16:47:42 UTC
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This e-mail and its attachments
The following is probably futile, but in case auyeungtszwing should
come across this usenet group again, what you have written and posted
is not an e-mail, but a usenet posting.

/Anders, Denmark.
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