Discussion:
I'm a Chinese vs I'm Chinese.
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hongy...@gmail.com
2021-03-28 06:16:21 UTC
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Considering the following two sentences:

I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.

What's differences between them?

Regards,
HY
Oğuz
2021-03-28 07:24:53 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
Sounds incomplete. You're a Chinese what?
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
Regards,
HY
hongy...@gmail.com
2021-03-28 07:30:10 UTC
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Post by Oğuz
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
Sounds incomplete. You're a Chinese what?
IMO, "Chinese" in itself can be a noun.
Post by Oğuz
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
Regards,
HY
Oğuz
2021-03-28 08:22:03 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Oğuz
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
Sounds incomplete. You're a Chinese what?
IMO, "Chinese" in itself can be a noun.
I know in a sentence like "We ordered Chinese" it can be, but "Chinese" here is a meal, not a person.
But I wouldn't say "I met a Chinese at the bar" because it sounds rude. I think "a Chinese woman", or "an Asian chick" would be more appropriate there.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Oğuz
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
Regards,
HY
Lewis
2021-03-28 12:46:39 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Oğuz
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
Sounds incomplete. You're a Chinese what?
IMO, "Chinese" in itself can be a noun.
"I am a Chinese" is not right.
--
Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire,
what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to
us, do they?
Arindam Banerjee
2021-03-28 19:44:40 UTC
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Post by Lewis
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Oğuz
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
Sounds incomplete. You're a Chinese what?
IMO, "Chinese" in itself can be a noun.
"I am a Chinese" is not right.
I am Chinese if you please.
I am a Chinese if you don't please.
Post by Lewis
--
Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire,
what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to
us, do they?
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-28 07:46:00 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.

I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.

Can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
occam
2021-03-28 07:57:21 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
"I'm an Afghan" is in between those two categories. It could be coming
from a dog, but it certainly is not an insult.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
Is there any logic in human language?
hongy...@gmail.com
2021-03-28 08:29:53 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
"I'm an Afghan" is in between those two categories.
I've never heard of such a usage like *in between*.
Post by occam
It could be coming from a dog, but it certainly is not an insult.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
Is there any logic in human language?
Chrysi Cat
2021-03-29 04:07:13 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
"I'm an Afghan" is in between those two categories.
I've never heard of such a usage like *in between*.
You've never heard the phrase "in between" before?

I'll admit, I guess more people drop the preposition these days, but if
nothing else, it's in the lyrics of "Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate the
Positive"--specifically, the end of the refrain.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by occam
It could be coming from a dog, but it certainly is not an insult.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
Is there any logic in human language?
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
hongy...@gmail.com
2021-03-29 05:06:52 UTC
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Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
"I'm an Afghan" is in between those two categories.
I've never heard of such a usage like *in between*.
You've never heard the phrase "in between" before?
I'll admit, I guess more people drop the preposition these days, but if
nothing else, it's in the lyrics of "Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate the
Positive"
What's the mean of "Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate the Positive"?
Post by Chrysi Cat
--specifically, the end of the refrain.
Could you please give me some more examples for the rhetoric of refrain?
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by occam
It could be coming from a dog, but it certainly is not an insult.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
Is there any logic in human language?
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
CDB
2021-03-29 13:10:06 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I'm a Chinese. I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with
an added word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ...,
whatever) at the end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think,
used as a derogatory term. Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives
for languages can be used with the indefinite article: a
German, a Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a
Georgian, a Persian, a Thai, a Korean are all OK and
standard. Others aren't: an English*, a French*, a Spanish*,
a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet others were
once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
"I'm an Afghan" is in between those two categories.
I've never heard of such a usage like *in between*.
You've never heard the phrase "in between" before?
I'll admit, I guess more people drop the preposition these days,
but if nothing else, it's in the lyrics of "Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate the
Positive"
What's the mean of "Ac-Cent-Tchu-Ate the Positive"?
That should be "What's the meaning". The phrase you ask about is from
an old popular song: "You've got to accentuate the positive, eliminate
the negative, latch on to the alternative -- don't mess with Mr
In-between". The rhythm of the song produces an unusual pattern of
emphasis on the words.


Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Chrysi Cat
--specifically, the end of the refrain.
Could you please give me some more examples for the rhetoric of refrain?
The refrain of a song is a line or group of lines that is repeated in
succeeding verses.
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by occam
["I'm an Afghan"]
It could be coming from a dog, but it certainly is not an
insult.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
Is there any logic in human language?
s***@my-deja.com
2021-03-29 11:13:21 UTC
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
"I'm an Afghan" is in between those two categories.
I've never heard of such a usage like *in between*.
What is being said is:
A,B,C,D are acceptable
E,F,G,H are not acceptable
"I am an Afghan" is semi acceptable, and therefore comes "in between" those two categories
"He/she/it is an Afghan" might be used, as has been said, about an Afghan hound.

"He is Afghan" is not acceptable because the adjective is Afghani
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-29 11:54:09 UTC
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Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
"I'm an Afghan" is in between those two categories.
I've never heard of such a usage like *in between*.
A,B,C,D are acceptable
E,F,G,H are not acceptable
"I am an Afghan" is semi acceptable, and therefore comes "in between" those two categories
"He/she/it is an Afghan" might be used, as has been said, about an Afghan hound.
"He is Afghan" is not acceptable because the adjective is Afghani
For me (and I suspect I'm not alone) the adjective is "Afghan", but
I've come across "Afghani".
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Adam Funk
2021-03-29 12:06:37 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
"I'm an Afghan" is in between those two categories.
I've never heard of such a usage like *in between*.
A,B,C,D are acceptable
E,F,G,H are not acceptable
"I am an Afghan" is semi acceptable, and therefore comes "in between"
those two categories
"He/she/it is an Afghan" might be used, as has been said, about an Afghan hound.
"He is Afghan" is not acceptable because the adjective is Afghani
For me (and I suspect I'm not alone) the adjective is "Afghan", but
I've come across "Afghani".
"An afghan" can also be a blanket (knitted, IIRC) in AmE.
--
By filing this bug report, you have challenged my
my honor. Prepare to die!
---Klingon Programmer's Guide
Stefan Ram
2021-03-29 19:08:55 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
"An afghan" can also be a blanket (knitted, IIRC) in AmE.
Famously seen on the sofa of the Conners family in
television series such as "Roseanne" or "The Conners",
but also (maybe only once) in "Monk".

"Black A." can also mean a drug. (Disclaimer: drugs are
bad!)
Kerr-Mudd,John
2021-03-30 10:00:41 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Adam Funk
"An afghan" can also be a blanket (knitted, IIRC) in AmE.
Famously seen on the sofa of the Conners family in
television series such as "Roseanne" or "The Conners",
but also (maybe only once) in "Monk".
"Black A." can also mean a drug. (Disclaimer: drugs are
bad!)
YMMV:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champion_Beer_of_Britain
(2019, Silver)
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
CDB
2021-03-30 11:52:13 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
"An afghan" can also be a blanket (knitted, IIRC) in AmE.
Famously seen on the sofa of the Conners family in television series
such as "Roseanne" or "The Conners", but also (maybe only once) in
"Monk".
"Black A." can also mean a drug. (Disclaimer: drugs are bad!)
I wonder what they mix it with instead of camel-shit.
Ken Blake
2021-03-29 16:14:08 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
"I'm an Afghan" is in between those two categories.
I've never heard of such a usage like *in between*.
A,B,C,D are acceptable
E,F,G,H are not acceptable
"I am an Afghan" is semi acceptable, and therefore comes "in between"
those two categories
"He/she/it is an Afghan" might be used, as has been said, about an Afghan hound.
"He is Afghan" is not acceptable because the adjective is Afghani
For me (and I suspect I'm not alone) the adjective is "Afghan", but
I've come across "Afghani".
I've seldom used, read, or heard the adjective, but in my limited
experience, regardless of which one is correct, I think it's almost
always been "Afghan."
--
Ken
Eric Walker
2021-03-30 01:20:28 UTC
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On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:54:09 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

[...]
For me (and I suspect I'm not alone) the adjective is "Afghan", but I've
come across "Afghani".
Wikipedia, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan, states that "Afghan
refers to someone or something from Afghanistan, in particular a citizen
of that country...The term 'Afghani' refers to the unit of Afghan
currency."
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
Janet
2021-03-30 12:17:56 UTC
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Post by Eric Walker
[...]
For me (and I suspect I'm not alone) the adjective is "Afghan", but I've
come across "Afghani".
Wikipedia, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan, states that "Afghan
refers to someone or something from Afghanistan, in particular a citizen
of that country...The term 'Afghani' refers to the unit of Afghan
currency."
A revealing edit. Wiki continues


"the term is also often used (and appears in some dictionaries) for a
person or thing related to Afghanistan"



Janet.
Eric Walker
2021-03-30 23:57:13 UTC
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Post by Janet
Post by Eric Walker
[...]
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
For me (and I suspect I'm not alone) the adjective is "Afghan", but
I've come across "Afghani".
Wikipedia, at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghan, states that "Afghan
refers to someone or something from Afghanistan, in particular a
citizen of that country...The term 'Afghani' refers to the unit of
Afghan currency."
A revealing edit. Wiki continues
"the term is also often used (and appears in some dictionaries) for a
person or thing related to Afghanistan"
Hm. Missed that: just read the first sentence. But if we're going to
speak of revealing edits:

"The term is also often used (and appears in some dictionaries) for a
person or thing related to Afghanistan, although some have expressed
the opinion that this usage is incorrect."

For a longer discussion, see:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2001/10/more-on-afghani.html
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
CDB
2021-03-29 13:12:30 UTC
Reply
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Post by ***@gmail.com
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Considering the following two sentences: I'm a Chinese. I'm
Chinese. What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an
added word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ...,
whatever) at the end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think,
used as a derogatory term. Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives
for languages can be used with the indefinite article: a
German, a Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a
Georgian, a Persian, a Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard.
Others aren't: an English*, a French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a
Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet others were once used
derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a Chinese, a Malay, a
Portuguese.
"I'm an Afghan" is in between those two categories.
I've never heard of such a usage like *in between*.
What is being said is: A,B,C,D are acceptable E,F,G,H are not
acceptable "I am an Afghan" is semi acceptable, and therefore comes
"in between" those two categories "He/she/it is an Afghan" might be
used, as has been said, about an Afghan hound.
"He is Afghan" is not acceptable because the adjective is Afghani
I think it's been said here before that "Afghan" is used as the
adjective because "Afghani" is the currency.
--
"Ich bin ein Afghani".
Peter Moylan
2021-03-30 00:34:19 UTC
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Post by s***@my-deja.com
A,B,C,D are acceptable
E,F,G,H are not acceptable
"I am an Afghan" is semi acceptable, and therefore comes "in between" those two categories
"He/she/it is an Afghan" might be used, as has been said, about an Afghan hound.
"He is Afghan" is not acceptable because the adjective is Afghani
No, Afghani is the noun. You can say either "He is Afghan" (marginally
acceptable) or "He is an Afghani" (fully acceptable).
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-03-30 17:27:06 UTC
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On Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:34:19 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by s***@my-deja.com
A,B,C,D are acceptable
E,F,G,H are not acceptable
"I am an Afghan" is semi acceptable, and therefore comes "in between" those two categories
"He/she/it is an Afghan" might be used, as has been said, about an Afghan hound.
"He is Afghan" is not acceptable because the adjective is Afghani
No, Afghani is the noun. You can say either "He is Afghan" (marginally
acceptable) or "He is an Afghani" (fully acceptable).
I can't comment on what is currently acceptable, but the OED has both
Afghan and Afghani as both nouns and adjectives.

Afghan, n. and adj.

1.(a) A Pashtun, in later use esp. one from Afghanistan.
(b) More generally: a native or inhabitant of Afghanistan;
a person of Afghani descent. Cf. Afghani n. 3.
2. The East Iranian language of the Pashtuns, the official language
of Afghanistan; = Pashto n.
3. A blanket or wrap of knitted or crocheted wool, usually made in
strips or squares.
4.
a. = Afghan rug n. at Compounds.
b. = Afghan coat n. at Compounds.
5. = Afghan hound n. at Compounds.
6. New Zealand. = Afghan biscuit n. at Compounds.

B. adj.
1. Of or relating to Afghanistan or Afghans.
2. Designating or relating to the language of the Pashtuns, the
official language of Afghanistan; = Pashto adj.

Afghani, n. and adj.

A. n.
1. The Eastern Iranian language spoken by the Afghan people;
= Pashto n.
2. The principal monetary unit of Afghanistan, divided into
100 puls.
3. A native or inhabitant of Afghanistan. Cf. Afghan n. 1.

B. adj.
Of, belonging, or relating to Afghanistan or the Afghan people;
= Afghan adj.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
bozo de niro
2021-03-28 20:52:48 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
"I'm an Afghan" is in between those two categories. It could be coming
from a dog, but it certainly is not an insult.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
Is there any logic in human language?
Yes. Do you understand it or not, that's the logic — unless of course you're a wuss and pretending not to, and if not, you just don't know the language or enough of it. Next.
Eric Walker
2021-03-28 22:53:10 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
Can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
None that I've ever encountered. Moreover, why are some such uses just
fine and others considered derogatory? So far as I know, saying "He's a
Korean" would not be derogatory, but--apparently--saying "He's a Chinese"
would be (at least to some listeners).

As Athel asks, can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-29 13:18:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
Can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
None that I've ever encountered. Moreover, why are some such uses just
fine and others considered derogatory? So far as I know, saying "He's a
It is not a random "some such" vs. "other." It is simply Noun (abusive)
vs. Adjective (neutral).
Korean" would not be derogatory, but--apparently--saying "He's a Chinese"
would be (at least to some listeners).
As Athel asks, can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
Yes. Can anyone rationalize Mister Cordiality's failure to be in touch with
any aspect of 21st-century American English?
Lewis
2021-03-29 15:00:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Eric Walker
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
Can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
None that I've ever encountered. Moreover, why are some such uses just
fine and others considered derogatory? So far as I know, saying "He's a
Korean" would not be derogatory, but--apparently--saying "He's a Chinese"
would be (at least to some listeners).
I would not say he is

a Chinese
a Korean
a Mexican
an English
a French
a Japanese
a gay
An Italian
a Thai

However, I would say something like "He is a Chinese author".

etc etc. I do not think any of these are just fine.
Post by Eric Walker
As Athel asks, can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
Don't do it is the logic AFAIAC.
--
I'm giving up eating chocolate for a month.
Correction: I'm giving up; eating chocolate for a month.
Jerry Friedman
2021-03-30 02:05:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
Can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
None that I've ever encountered. Moreover, why are some such uses just
fine and others considered derogatory? So far as I know, saying "He's a
Korean" would not be derogatory, but--apparently--saying "He's a Chinese"
would be (at least to some listeners).
I would not say he is
a Chinese
a Korean
a Mexican
an English
a French
a Japanese
a gay
An Italian
a Thai
An American? A Canadian?

And do you object to nouns for nationality (an Englishman, a Dane) or only the
ones that are also adjectives?
Post by Lewis
However, I would say something like "He is a Chinese author".
...
--
Jerry Friedman
Lewis
2021-03-30 03:45:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
The second is normal; the first isn't, but would be OK with an added
word ("person", "citizen", "writer", "engineer" ..., whatever) at the
end. In the past "a Chinese" was, I think, used as a derogatory term.
Today I think it just sounds odd.
I'm not sure if any logical rule exists, but some adjectives for
languages can be used with the indefinite article: a German, a
Norwegian, an Italian, a Greek, an Armenian, a Georgian, a Persian, a
Thai, a Korean are all OK and standard. Others aren't: an English*, a
French*, a Spanish*, a Danish*, a Swedish*, a Dutch*, a Turkish*. Yet
others were once used derogatorily, and are best avoided today: a
Chinese, a Malay, a Portuguese.
Can anyone rationalize this? Is there a logic?
None that I've ever encountered. Moreover, why are some such uses just
fine and others considered derogatory? So far as I know, saying "He's a
Korean" would not be derogatory, but--apparently--saying "He's a Chinese"
would be (at least to some listeners).
I would not say he is
a Chinese
a Korean
a Mexican
an English
a French
a Japanese
a gay
An Italian
a Thai
An American?
Yes, that one seem normal, but that may be because American implies
*only* nationality, not ethnicity. I would also say "a Brit"
Post by Jerry Friedman
A Canadian?
Hmm. He is Canadian, yes. He is a Canadian? Probably?
Post by Jerry Friedman
And do you object to nouns for nationality (an Englishman, a Dane) or only the
ones that are also adjectives?
There's a big difference between "a Dane" and "a Danish".
--
Words have meanings, but not here.
Janet
2021-03-28 12:54:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
= I'm a Chinese <something>

( a Chinese poster, Chinese acrobat)
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
2) only defines your nationality.

I'm British.

Janet.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-28 15:59:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
what is the difference

or

what are the differences

If "I'm a Chinese" was ever used, it was a poor attempt at avoiding
"I'm a Chinaman."

The use of ethnic nouns vs. ethnic adjectives has been discussed
here ad nauseam.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-03-28 23:24:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 08:59:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
what is the difference
or
what are the differences
If "I'm a Chinese" was ever used, it was a poor attempt at avoiding
"I'm a Chinaman."
It might just have been an assumption that "Chinese" could be used as a
noun a well as an adjective like American, African, Australian,
Cambodian, Egyptian, Indian, etc, or Maltese.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The use of ethnic nouns vs. ethnic adjectives has been discussed
here ad nauseam.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Moylan
2021-03-29 01:16:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 08:59:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
If "I'm a Chinese" was ever used, it was a poor attempt at avoiding
"I'm a Chinaman."
It might just have been an assumption that "Chinese" could be used
as a noun a well as an adjective like American, African, Australian,
Cambodian, Egyptian, Indian, etc, or Maltese.
I would remove "Maltese" from your list. Nationality adjectives ending
with "an" seem to be acceptable as nouns, but those ending with "ese"
don't seem to be, although they're perfectly respectable as adjectives.

(Now watch everyone come up with the counterexamples I didn't think of.)

In my experience "He is Maltese" is OK but "He's a Maltese" is not.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Bebercito
2021-03-29 01:47:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 08:59:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
If "I'm a Chinese" was ever used, it was a poor attempt at avoiding
"I'm a Chinaman."
It might just have been an assumption that "Chinese" could be used
as a noun a well as an adjective like American, African, Australian,
Cambodian, Egyptian, Indian, etc, or Maltese.
I would remove "Maltese" from your list. Nationality adjectives ending
with "an" seem to be acceptable as nouns, but those ending with "ese"
don't seem to be, although they're perfectly respectable as adjectives.
(Now watch everyone come up with the counterexamples I didn't think of.)
In my experience "He is Maltese" is OK but "He's a Maltese" is not.
Unless "he" is a dog.
Post by Peter Moylan
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-03-29 12:14:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:16:29 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 08:59:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
If "I'm a Chinese" was ever used, it was a poor attempt at avoiding
"I'm a Chinaman."
It might just have been an assumption that "Chinese" could be used
as a noun a well as an adjective like American, African, Australian,
Cambodian, Egyptian, Indian, etc, or Maltese.
I would remove "Maltese" from your list. Nationality adjectives ending
with "an" seem to be acceptable as nouns, but those ending with "ese"
don't seem to be, although they're perfectly respectable as adjectives.
(Now watch everyone come up with the counterexamples I didn't think of.)
In my experience "He is Maltese" is OK but "He's a Maltese" is not.
I did a quick check in a dictionary before adding Maltese to the list.

https://www.lexico.com/definition/maltese

noun Maltese

1 A native or inhabitant of Malta or a person of Maltese descent.

I now see that all the examples given use the plural form "(the)
Maltese".

‘The years between the two world wars were marked by spasmodic
European immigration, especially of Italians, Greeks, Croatians,
Maltese, and Jews.’
‘Saint Paul is a powerful national symbol, as he is credited with
converting the Maltese to Christianity.’

However, the OED entry includes:

1838 J. L. Stephens Incidents Trav. Greece, Turkey, Russia 41/1
An old Maltese, who spoke French and Italian.

1991 K. Spink tr. D. Lapierre Beyond Love I. iii. 16 There was
an Italian, an Iraqi of Greek extraction, a Maltese.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Adam Funk
2021-03-29 12:28:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:16:29 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 08:59:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
If "I'm a Chinese" was ever used, it was a poor attempt at avoiding
"I'm a Chinaman."
It might just have been an assumption that "Chinese" could be used
as a noun a well as an adjective like American, African, Australian,
Cambodian, Egyptian, Indian, etc, or Maltese.
I would remove "Maltese" from your list. Nationality adjectives ending
with "an" seem to be acceptable as nouns, but those ending with "ese"
don't seem to be, although they're perfectly respectable as adjectives.
(Now watch everyone come up with the counterexamples I didn't think of.)
In my experience "He is Maltese" is OK but "He's a Maltese" is not.
I did a quick check in a dictionary before adding Maltese to the list.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/maltese
noun Maltese
1 A native or inhabitant of Malta or a person of Maltese descent.
I now see that all the examples given use the plural form "(the)
Maltese".
‘The years between the two world wars were marked by spasmodic
European immigration, especially of Italians, Greeks, Croatians,
Maltese, and Jews.’
‘Saint Paul is a powerful national symbol, as he is credited with
converting the Maltese to Christianity.’
1838 J. L. Stephens Incidents Trav. Greece, Turkey, Russia 41/1
An old Maltese, who spoke French and Italian.
1991 K. Spink tr. D. Lapierre Beyond Love I. iii. 16 There was
an Italian, an Iraqi of Greek extraction, a Maltese.
Not to be confused with Maltesers.
--
President Business is going to end the world? But he's such a good
guy! And Octan, they make good stuff: music, dairy products, coffee,
TV shows, surveillance systems, all history books, voting
machines... wait a minute! ---Emmet
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-29 13:31:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:16:29 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 08:59:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
If "I'm a Chinese" was ever used, it was a poor attempt at avoiding
"I'm a Chinaman."
It might just have been an assumption that "Chinese" could be used
as a noun a well as an adjective like American, African, Australian,
Cambodian, Egyptian, Indian, etc, or Maltese.
I would remove "Maltese" from your list. Nationality adjectives ending
with "an" seem to be acceptable as nouns, but those ending with "ese"
don't seem to be, although they're perfectly respectable as adjectives.
(Now watch everyone come up with the counterexamples I didn't think of.)
In my experience "He is Maltese" is OK but "He's a Maltese" is not.
I did a quick check in a dictionary before adding Maltese to the list.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/maltese
noun Maltese
1 A native or inhabitant of Malta or a person of Maltese descent.
I now see that all the examples given use the plural form "(the)
Maltese".
‘The years between the two world wars were marked by spasmodic
European immigration, especially of Italians, Greeks, Croatians,
Maltese, and Jews.’
‘Saint Paul is a powerful national symbol, as he is credited with
converting the Maltese to Christianity.’
1838 J. L. Stephens Incidents Trav. Greece, Turkey, Russia 41/1
An old Maltese, who spoke French and Italian.
That would be the same John Lloyd Stephens whose two volumes
of *Incidents of Travel in the Yucatan ..." a few years later; slightly
different titles, contained the first accurate, i.e. usable, drawings of
Maya inscriptions (by Frederick Catherwood). They happened to be
traveling through Central America during a particularly unsettled
period in its history.
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
1991 K. Spink tr. D. Lapierre Beyond Love I. iii. 16 There was
an Italian, an Iraqi of Greek extraction, a Maltese.
Do we really want to trust a translator who uses a singular verb
with a plural subject?
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-03-29 14:15:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:14:08 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:16:29 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 08:59:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
If "I'm a Chinese" was ever used, it was a poor attempt at avoiding
"I'm a Chinaman."
It might just have been an assumption that "Chinese" could be used
as a noun a well as an adjective like American, African, Australian,
Cambodian, Egyptian, Indian, etc, or Maltese.
I would remove "Maltese" from your list. Nationality adjectives ending
with "an" seem to be acceptable as nouns, but those ending with "ese"
don't seem to be, although they're perfectly respectable as adjectives.
(Now watch everyone come up with the counterexamples I didn't think of.)
In my experience "He is Maltese" is OK but "He's a Maltese" is not.
I did a quick check in a dictionary before adding Maltese to the list.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/maltese
noun Maltese
1 A native or inhabitant of Malta or a person of Maltese descent.
I now see that all the examples given use the plural form "(the)
Maltese".
‘The years between the two world wars were marked by spasmodic
European immigration, especially of Italians, Greeks, Croatians,
Maltese, and Jews.’
‘Saint Paul is a powerful national symbol, as he is credited with
converting the Maltese to Christianity.’
1838 J. L. Stephens Incidents Trav. Greece, Turkey, Russia 41/1
An old Maltese, who spoke French and Italian.
1991 K. Spink tr. D. Lapierre Beyond Love I. iii. 16 There was
an Italian, an Iraqi of Greek extraction, a Maltese.
A further thought:

There are some adjectives of the type being discussed that are used as
nouns but only in the plural.

E.g. "The French and the British living in the USA."

Whether the nationality words in that sentence are themselves strictly
nouns or are abbreviations of the noun phrases "French people" and
"British people" is open to discussion. If we wished to refer to a
single person of each type it would be "The/A French person and the/a
British person living in the USA."
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-29 15:21:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 13:14:08 +0100, "Peter Duncanson [BrE]"
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Mon, 29 Mar 2021 12:16:29 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 08:59:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
If "I'm a Chinese" was ever used, it was a poor attempt at avoiding
"I'm a Chinaman."
It might just have been an assumption that "Chinese" could be used
as a noun a well as an adjective like American, African, Australian,
Cambodian, Egyptian, Indian, etc, or Maltese.
I would remove "Maltese" from your list. Nationality adjectives ending
with "an" seem to be acceptable as nouns, but those ending with "ese"
don't seem to be, although they're perfectly respectable as adjectives.
(Now watch everyone come up with the counterexamples I didn't think of.)
In my experience "He is Maltese" is OK but "He's a Maltese" is not.
I did a quick check in a dictionary before adding Maltese to the list.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/maltese
noun Maltese
1 A native or inhabitant of Malta or a person of Maltese descent.
I now see that all the examples given use the plural form "(the)
Maltese".
‘The years between the two world wars were marked by spasmodic
European immigration, especially of Italians, Greeks, Croatians,
Maltese, and Jews.’
‘Saint Paul is a powerful national symbol, as he is credited with
converting the Maltese to Christianity.’
1838 J. L. Stephens Incidents Trav. Greece, Turkey, Russia 41/1
An old Maltese, who spoke French and Italian.
1991 K. Spink tr. D. Lapierre Beyond Love I. iii. 16 There was
an Italian, an Iraqi of Greek extraction, a Maltese.
There are some adjectives of the type being discussed that are used as
nouns but only in the plural.
E.g. "The French and the British living in the USA."
Yes, I thought of that earlier today. However, I don't think it works
with all such nationalities: in what circumstances might one say "the
Danish" (unless referring to the sort of pastry that Kojak liked)?
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Whether the nationality words in that sentence are themselves strictly
nouns or are abbreviations of the noun phrases "French people" and
"British people" is open to discussion. If we wished to refer to a
single person of each type it would be "The/A French person and the/a
British person living in the USA."
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
s***@my-deja.com
2021-03-29 15:51:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
If "I'm a Chinese" was ever used, it was a poor attempt at avoiding
"I'm a Chinaman."
It might just have been an assumption that "Chinese" could be used
as a noun a well as an adjective like American, African, Australian,
Cambodian, Egyptian, Indian, etc, or Maltese.
I would remove "Maltese" from your list. Nationality adjectives ending
with "an" seem to be acceptable as nouns, but those ending with "ese"
don't seem to be, although they're perfectly respectable as adjectives.
(Now watch everyone come up with the counterexamples I didn't think of.)
In my experience "He is Maltese" is OK but "He's a Maltese" is not.
I did a quick check in a dictionary before adding Maltese to the list.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/maltese
noun Maltese
1 A native or inhabitant of Malta or a person of Maltese descent.
I now see that all the examples given use the plural form "(the)
Maltese".
‘The years between the two world wars were marked by spasmodic
European immigration, especially of Italians, Greeks, Croatians,
Maltese, and Jews.’
‘Saint Paul is a powerful national symbol, as he is credited with
converting the Maltese to Christianity.’
1838 J. L. Stephens Incidents Trav. Greece, Turkey, Russia 41/1
An old Maltese, who spoke French and Italian.
1991 K. Spink tr. D. Lapierre Beyond Love I. iii. 16 There was
an Italian, an Iraqi of Greek extraction, a Maltese.
There are some adjectives of the type being discussed that are used as
nouns but only in the plural.
E.g. "The French and the British living in the USA."
Yes, I thought of that earlier today. However, I don't think it works
with all such nationalities: in what circumstances might one say "the
Danish" (unless referring to the sort of pastry that Kojak liked)?
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Whether the nationality words in that sentence are themselves strictly
nouns or are abbreviations of the noun phrases "French people" and
"British people" is open to discussion. If we wished to refer to a
single person of each type it would be "The/A French person and the/a
British person living in the USA."
Surely the answer regarding "Danish" lies, as does much else in aue, with the context.
An invented example:-
"Health considerations permitting, I plan to go back to Denmark next year.
I have always found the Danish to be very interesting people"

In the choice between
I am ... (adjective)
and
I am a/an ... (noun)
it seems to me that many decisions of what is acceptable or not
depends on what the adjective or noun may have been used to
convey in the days when communications between nations were
less instantaneous.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-03-29 15:54:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Peter Moylan wrote:> >>>Peter Duncanson [BrE] wrote:> >>>>"Peter T.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
If "I'm a Chinese" was ever used, it was a poor attempt at
avoiding>>>>>>"I'm a Chinaman."
It might just have been an assumption that "Chinese" could be used>>>>>
as a noun a well as an adjective like American, African,
Australian,>>>>> Cambodian, Egyptian, Indian, etc, or Maltese.>>>>I
would remove "Maltese" from your list. Nationality adjectives
ending>>>>with "an" seem to be acceptable as nouns, but those ending
with "ese">>>>don't seem to be, although they're perfectly respectable
as adjectives.>>>> (Now watch everyone come up with the counterexamples
I didn't think of.)>>>> In my experience "He is Maltese" is OK but
"He's a Maltese" is not.
I did a quick check in a dictionary before adding Maltese to the list.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/maltese>>>noun Maltese>>>1 A native
or inhabitant of Malta or a person of Maltese descent.>>>I now see that
all the examples given use the plural form "(the)>>>Maltese".>>>‘The
years between the two world wars were marked by spasmodic>>>European
immigration, especially of Italians, Greeks, Croatians,>>>Maltese, and
Jews.’>>>‘Saint Paul is a powerful national symbol, as he is credited
with>>>converting the Maltese to Christianity.’>>>However, the OED
entry includes:>>>1838 J. L. Stephens Incidents Trav. Greece, Turkey,
Russia 41/1>>>An old Maltese, who spoke French and Italian.>>>1991 K.
Spink tr. D. Lapierre Beyond Love I. iii. 16 There was>>>an Italian, an
Iraqi of Greek extraction, a Maltese.>>A further thought:>>There are
some adjectives of the type being discussed that are used as>>nouns but
only in the plural.>>E.g. "The French and the British living in the
USA."
Yes, I thought of that earlier today. However, I don't think it
works>with all such nationalities: in what circumstances might one say
"the>Danish" (unless referring to the sort of pastry that Kojak liked)?
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Whether the nationality words in that sentence are themselves
strictly>>nouns or are abbreviations of the noun phrases "French
people" and>>"British people" is open to discussion. If we wished to
refer to a>>single person of each type it would be "The/A French person
and the/a>>British person living in the USA."
Surely the answer regarding "Danish" lies, as does much else in aue, with the context.
An invented example:-
"Health considerations permitting, I plan to go back to Denmark next year.
I have always found the Danish to be very interesting people"
OK, but for me "I have always found the Danes to be very interesting
people" would be a more natural way to say it.
Post by s***@my-deja.com
In the choice between
I am ... (adjective)
and
I am a/an ... (noun)
it seems to me that many decisions of what is acceptable or not
depends on what the adjective or noun may have been used to
convey in the days when communications between nations were
less instantaneous.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-29 13:24:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 28 Mar 2021 08:59:20 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
what is the difference
or
what are the differences
If "I'm a Chinese" was ever used, it was a poor attempt at avoiding
"I'm a Chinaman."
It might just have been an assumption that "Chinese" could be used as a
noun a well as an adjective like American, African, Australian,
Cambodian, Egyptian, Indian, etc, or Maltese.
I'm not sure any of those could be an ethnic label, except possibly
Maltese, and there one might think of a dog before a person.

(The ethnonym for the majority in Cambodia is "Khmer." "An Egyptian"
would be an Ancient one. Messrs. Nasser, Sadat, and Mubarak are
Egyptian by nationality but Arab by ethnicity; some Egyptians are
Coptic, but "Copts" are probably people who subscribe to a type of
Christianity. It's complicated.)
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The use of ethnic nouns vs. ethnic adjectives has been discussed
here ad nauseam.
s***@my-deja.com
2021-03-28 22:49:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
I am Chinese.
As others have posted, this is the better sentence
You do not use a measure word.

I am a Chinese.
This is old fashioned at best. Native speakers would not use this structure.
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
Quinn C
2021-03-29 13:08:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
--
Trans people are scapegoated for the impossibilities of this two-box
system, but the system harms all of us. Most people have felt ashamed
of the ways we don't conform to whatever narrow idea of man or woman
has been prescribed onto our bodies -- H.P.Keenan in Slate
charles
2021-03-29 13:20:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
A 'takeaway' isn't a meal in a restaurant,
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-29 13:35:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
A 'takeaway' isn't a meal in a restaurant,
Do they say "takeaway" in Canada? Down Here it's "takeout." (And
is a mass noun -- doesn't take "a.")
CDB
2021-03-29 18:26:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer
to a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
A 'takeaway' isn't a meal in a restaurant,
Do they say "takeaway" in Canada? Down Here it's "takeout." (And is a
mass noun -- doesn't take "a.")
Up here too. Also sometimes "to go" as a predicate modifier, as in the
Montreal classic "un pizza all-dress' to go". The last part applies to
both official languages.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-03-29 19:39:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer
to a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
A 'takeaway' isn't a meal in a restaurant,
Do they say "takeaway" in Canada? Down Here it's "takeout." (And is a
mass noun -- doesn't take "a.")
Up here too. Also sometimes "to go" as a predicate modifier, as in the
Montreal classic "un pizza all-dress' to go". The last part applies to
both official languages.
"To go" is what we say to the counterperson at the takeout.
Stefan Ram
2021-03-29 19:16:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
A 'takeaway' isn't a meal in a restaurant,
Recently, I started to focus on learning words that might be
used in teaching ("classroom English"), and there "takeaway"
comes up often:

|And so hopefully one of the takeaways you'll get from this
|course is that, if you are struggling with something
|technological, it is daresay as much if not more the fault
|of someone else, honestly, than it is of you.

|So for now, the takeaway is that variables have this notion
|of scope.

|So the takeaway here isn't so much that, wow, look at this
|neat new trick where you can get at the contents of an
|array's specific characters, but rather how we're taking
|these basic ideas like indexing into an array, and then
|indexing into an array that was in that array, and just
|applying the same ideas to slightly more sophisticated
|examples.

Important collocation: "the main takeaway (of something)".
Jerry Friedman
2021-03-30 02:02:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
A 'takeaway' isn't a meal in a restaurant,
True. In my English, it's a meal at home or in a park or in a car or
whatever, but it's still a meal.
--
Jerry Friedman
s***@my-deja.com
2021-03-29 13:52:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Quinn C
2021-03-29 14:06:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Is that a statement about meals in general (they take part in
restaurants, not at home), or only about the phrase "Chinese meal"?

Bonus question: Is "chinese" different from "Chinese"?
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
s***@my-deja.com
2021-03-29 16:02:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Is that a statement about meals in general (they take part in
restaurants, not at home), or only about the phrase "Chinese meal"?
Remembering the context of a thread about "Chinese" and "a Chinese",
the description of "Chinese meal" may safely be considered not to
include meals of other kinds.
Post by Quinn C
Bonus question: Is "chinese" different from "Chinese"?
Bonus answer: That depends how pernickety the writer is.
Ken Blake
2021-03-29 16:08:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
--
Ken
s***@my-deja.com
2021-03-29 16:15:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Well done!
Lewis
2021-03-29 20:52:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Well done!
We make a chinese at least once a week.
--
It's Tchaikovsky's 'Another One Bites the Dust'," said Crowley,
closing his eyes as they went through Slough.
Sam Plusnet
2021-03-29 21:54:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Well done!
We make a chinese at least once a week.
You are Mary Shelley and I claim my 5 lightning bolts.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-03-29 22:01:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Well done!
We make a chinese at least once a week.
You are Mary Shelley and I claim my 5 lightning bolts.
Mary Shelley morphs into Hannibal Lecter to eat the chinese.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Ken Blake
2021-03-29 23:46:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Well done!
We make a chinese at least once a week.
You are Mary Shelley and I claim my 5 lightning bolts.
Mary Shelley morphs into Hannibal Lecter to eat the chinese.
I didn't think he was that particular about who he ate, as long as he
Amarone with it.
--
Ken
Ken Blake
2021-03-29 23:58:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Well done!
We make a chinese at least once a week.
You are Mary Shelley and I claim my 5 lightning bolts.
Mary Shelley morphs into Hannibal Lecter to eat the chinese.
I didn't think he was that particular about who he ate, as long as he
Amarone with it.
...*had* amarone...
--
Ken
Lewis
2021-03-30 00:15:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Well done!
We make a chinese at least once a week.
You are Mary Shelley
Now now, no need to insult my writing that much.
Post by Sam Plusnet
and I claim my 5 lightning bolts.
pzap!
--
Two of the most famous products of Berkeley are LSD and Unix. I don't
think that is a coincidence
Ken Blake
2021-03-29 23:44:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Well done!
We make a chinese at least once a week.
Given the thread, I of course understand what you mean. But that
sentence outside of this thread would be unintelligible.
--
Ken
Lewis
2021-03-30 00:19:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Lewis
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Well done!
We make a chinese at least once a week.
Given the thread, I of course understand what you mean. But that
sentence outside of this thread would be unintelligible.
Sorry, been talking with my British friends a lot this week. "a chinese"
is "a chinese dish/meal"
--
"You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those
with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig."
Sam Plusnet
2021-03-30 02:03:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Lewis
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Well done!
We make a chinese at least once a week.
Given the thread, I of course understand what you mean. But that
sentence outside of this thread would be unintelligible.
Sorry, been talking with my British friends a lot this week. "a chinese"
is "a chinese dish/meal"
There is the (I think) apocryphal line "I could murder an indian."


If anyone needs clarification, this translates as:
"I am very hungry and desire food cooked in the Indian manner."
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Lewis
2021-03-30 03:39:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Lewis
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Well done!
We make a chinese at least once a week.
Given the thread, I of course understand what you mean. But that
sentence outside of this thread would be unintelligible.
Sorry, been talking with my British friends a lot this week. "a chinese"
is "a chinese dish/meal"
There is the (I think) apocryphal line "I could murder an indian."
Hmm, I doubt that is apocryphal. "I could murder a ____ " is
bog-0standard BrE slang.
Post by Sam Plusnet
"I am very hungry and desire food cooked in the Indian manner."
Exactly.
--
'There's Mr Dibbler.' 'What's he selling this time?' 'I don't think
he's trying to sell anything, Mr Poons.' 'It's that bad? Then
we're probably in lots of trouble.' --Reaper Man
Sam Plusnet
2021-03-30 20:28:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
There is the (I think) apocryphal line "I could murder an indian."
Hmm, I doubt that is apocryphal. "I could murder a ____ " is
bog-0standard BrE slang.
Pratchett considered the correct form to be:

"I COULD MURDER A CURRY."
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Peter Moylan
2021-03-30 23:44:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
There is the (I think) apocryphal line "I could murder an indian."
Hmm, I doubt that is apocryphal. "I could murder a ____ " is
bog-0standard BrE slang.
"I COULD MURDER A CURRY."
Yes, but only one of his characters speaks in all-caps.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Eric Walker
2021-03-31 00:01:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 10:44:49 +1100, Peter Moylan wrote:

[...]
Yes, but only one of [Pratchett's] characters speaks in all-caps.
Actually, he speaks in upper and lower caps (which I do not know how to
reproduce on Usenet), though that might still qualify as "all caps". See:

https://www.fonts.com/content/learning/fontology/level-1/type-anatomy/
small-caps
--
Cordially,
Eric Walker
Sam Plusnet
2021-03-31 00:04:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Sam Plusnet
There is the (I think) apocryphal line "I could murder an indian."
Hmm, I doubt that is apocryphal. "I could murder a ____ " is
bog-0standard BrE slang.
"I COULD MURDER A CURRY."
Yes, but only one of his characters speaks in all-caps.
That's the chap.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Ken Blake
2021-03-30 16:14:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Lewis
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Well done!
We make a chinese at least once a week.
Given the thread, I of course understand what you mean. But that
sentence outside of this thread would be unintelligible.
Sorry, been talking with my British friends a lot this week. "a chinese"
is "a chinese dish/meal"
There is the (I think) apocryphal line "I could murder an indian."
"I am very hungry and desire food cooked in the Indian manner."
If you hadn't clarified it, I would have taken that sentence literally,
--
Ken
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2021-03-30 17:34:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Lewis
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Well done!
We make a chinese at least once a week.
Given the thread, I of course understand what you mean. But that
sentence outside of this thread would be unintelligible.
Sorry, been talking with my British friends a lot this week. "a chinese"
is "a chinese dish/meal"
There is the (I think) apocryphal line "I could murder an indian."
"I am very hungry and desire food cooked in the Indian manner."
If you hadn't clarified it, I would have taken that sentence literally,
I understand "murder" in the statement to refer to voracious and
uncontrolled eating because of hunger.

The OED says of "murder":

9. transitive. colloquial. To devour ravenously; to consume to the
last drop or crumb. Esp. in I (he, she, etc.) could murder (an item
of food or drink).

1935 ...

1973 in D. J. Howe & S. J. Walker Doctor Who: Television Compan.
(1998) 254 I could just murder a cup of tea.
1986 Punch Winter 35/1 I could murder a plate of ham and eggs.
1994 E. Palmer Plucking Apple xxvi. 248 He got dressed, and
then, feeling that he could murder a cup of tea, went downstairs.
...
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Mark Brader
2021-03-30 23:32:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
I understand "murder" in the statement to refer to voracious and
uncontrolled eating because of hunger.
9. transitive. colloquial. To devour ravenously; to consume to the
last drop or crumb. Esp. in I (he, she, etc.) could murder (an item
of food or drink).
But it fails to say that it's British usage. At least, I've never
come across it in Leftpondia.
--
Mark Brader | Occam's razor cuts both ways. (I've spent
Toronto | most of my life waiting for a chance to
***@vex.net | say that.) --Michael Wares
Peter Moylan
2021-03-30 23:45:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
I understand "murder" in the statement to refer to voracious and
uncontrolled eating because of hunger.
9. transitive. colloquial. To devour ravenously; to consume to the
last drop or crumb. Esp. in I (he, she, etc.) could murder (an item
of food or drink).
But it fails to say that it's British usage. At least, I've never
come across it in Leftpondia.
Nor down here.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Quinn C
2021-03-29 22:32:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Exactly. Moreover, when I eat, it's always either a meal or a snack.

So I was wondering if there's some other distinction involved, like it
has to come with rice to be called a meal (cf. "fish dinner").
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Ken Blake
2021-03-29 23:41:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Exactly. Moreover, when I eat, it's always either a meal or a snack.
So I was wondering if there's some other distinction involved, like it
has to come with rice to be called a meal (cf. "fish dinner").
Maybe for some people. Not for me, since my wife reauses to eat rice,
which she is convinced is always poisonous.
--
Ken
Quinn C
2021-03-29 23:59:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer to
a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant"
For a chinese takeaway think "at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
Exactly. Moreover, when I eat, it's always either a meal or a snack.
So I was wondering if there's some other distinction involved, like it
has to come with rice to be called a meal (cf. "fish dinner").
Maybe for some people. Not for me, since my wife [refuses] to eat rice,
which she is convinced is always poisonous.
I think as long as she doesn't urge you in the same breath to eat her
portion, too, you're safe.
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Peter Moylan
2021-03-30 01:32:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer
to a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant" For a chinese takeaway think
"at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
I tend to avoid such labels. I make a lot of meals that shock my wife
because of what she perceives as a category error. For example,
stir-fried food with mashed potatoes, or a bolognese sauce on toast, or
lamb chops with a pasta salad.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Quinn C
2021-03-30 13:26:44 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
I tend to avoid such labels. I make a lot of meals that shock my wife
because of what she perceives as a category error. For example,
stir-fried food with mashed potatoes, or a bolognese sauce on toast, or
lamb chops with a pasta salad.
Are you cooking in a Tokamak oven?
--
I'll call you the next time I pass through your star system.
-- Commander William T. Riker
Peter Moylan
2021-03-30 23:47:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
I tend to avoid such labels. I make a lot of meals that shock my wife
because of what she perceives as a category error. For example,
stir-fried food with mashed potatoes, or a bolognese sauce on toast, or
lamb chops with a pasta salad.
Are you cooking in a Tokamak oven?
Quite the opposite. I'm a fan of slow cooking.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Ken Blake
2021-03-30 16:21:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer
to a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant" For a chinese takeaway think
"at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
I tend to avoid such labels. I make a lot of meals that shock my wife
because of what she perceives as a category error. For example,
stir-fried food with mashed potatoes, or a bolognese sauce on toast, or
lamb chops with a pasta salad.
More often than I make Chinese *meals*, I make stir-fried Chinese
vegetables to go with a simply grilled meat main dish. Tonight, for
example, I'm grilling a simple London Broil, and stir-frying Yau Choy.

But speaking of category errors, my favorite Chinese cookbook,
"Stir-frying to the Sky's Edge," has a recipe foe stir-fried bagels.
--
Ken
Jerry Friedman
2021-03-30 16:27:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer
to a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant" For a chinese takeaway think
"at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
I tend to avoid such labels. I make a lot of meals that shock my wife
because of what she perceives as a category error. For example,
stir-fried food with mashed potatoes, or a bolognese sauce on toast, or
lamb chops with a pasta salad.
More often than I make Chinese *meals*, I make stir-fried Chinese
vegetables to go with a simply grilled meat main dish. Tonight, for
example, I'm grilling a simple London Broil, and stir-frying Yau Choy.
But speaking of category errors, my favorite Chinese cookbook,
"Stir-frying to the Sky's Edge," has a recipe foe stir-fried bagels.
Has it been long enough since the last time I mentioned the Chinese
pizza bagels I saw advertised in New York in the mid '70s?
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
2021-03-30 17:45:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Ken Blake
But speaking of category errors, my favorite Chinese cookbook,
"Stir-frying to the Sky's Edge," has a recipe foe stir-fried bagels.
Has it been long enough since the last time I mentioned the Chinese
pizza bagels I saw advertised in New York in the mid '70s?
<https://soranews24.com/2020/05/26/sushi-tacos-now-on-sale-in-japan-can-this-cross-cultural-cuisine-please-our-biggest-taco-fan/>
--
What Phrenzy in my Bosom rag'd,
And by what Care to be asswag'd?
-- Sappho, transl. Addison (1711)
What was it that my distracted heart most wanted?
-- transl. Barnard (1958)
Jerry Friedman
2021-03-30 18:31:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Ken Blake
But speaking of category errors, my favorite Chinese cookbook,
"Stir-frying to the Sky's Edge," has a recipe foe stir-fried bagels.
Has it been long enough since the last time I mentioned the Chinese
pizza bagels I saw advertised in New York in the mid '70s?
<https://soranews24.com/2020/05/26/sushi-tacos-now-on-sale-in-japan-can-this-cross-cultural-cuisine-please-our-biggest-taco-fan/>
Lots of hits for "tako taco" include octopus (which is what "tako" means in
Japanese, for those following at home).
--
Jerry Friedman
Ken Blake
2021-03-30 22:15:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Ken Blake
But speaking of category errors, my favorite Chinese cookbook,
"Stir-frying to the Sky's Edge," has a recipe foe stir-fried bagels.
Has it been long enough since the last time I mentioned the Chinese
pizza bagels I saw advertised in New York in the mid '70s?
<https://soranews24.com/2020/05/26/sushi-tacos-now-on-sale-in-japan-can-this-cross-cultural-cuisine-please-our-biggest-taco-fan/>
Lots of hits for "tako taco" include octopus (which is what "tako" means in
Japanese, for those following at home).
I've never had, or even seen, tako taco, but tako sushi is one of my
favorite kinds.
--
Ken
charles
2021-03-30 17:07:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer
to a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant" For a chinese takeaway think
"at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
I tend to avoid such labels. I make a lot of meals that shock my wife
because of what she perceives as a category error. For example,
stir-fried food with mashed potatoes, or a bolognese sauce on toast, or
lamb chops with a pasta salad.
More often than I make Chinese *meals*, I make stir-fried Chinese
vegetables to go with a simply grilled meat main dish. Tonight, for
example, I'm grilling a simple London Broil, and stir-frying Yau Choy.
But speaking of category errors, my favorite Chinese cookbook,
"Stir-frying to the Sky's Edge," has a recipe foe stir-fried bagels.
Tonight being our 58th wedding anniversary, I've ordered an Indian Takeway.
The restaurant delivers ;-)
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Sam Plusnet
2021-03-30 20:32:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer
to a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant" For a chinese takeaway think
"at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
I tend to avoid such labels. I make a lot of meals that shock my wife
because of what she perceives as a category error. For example,
stir-fried food with mashed potatoes, or a bolognese sauce on toast, or
lamb chops with a pasta salad.
More often than I make Chinese *meals*, I make stir-fried Chinese
vegetables to go with a simply grilled meat main dish. Tonight, for
example, I'm grilling a simple London Broil, and stir-frying Yau Choy.
But speaking of category errors, my favorite Chinese cookbook,
"Stir-frying to the Sky's Edge," has a recipe foe stir-fried bagels.
Tonight being our 58th wedding anniversary, I've ordered an Indian Takeway.
The restaurant delivers ;-)
Did anyone say "It will never last."?[1]

Congratulations to you both and many happy returns.

[1] Of course it might be too late to rub their noses in it.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
charles
2021-03-30 20:48:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by charles
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Again as others have posted, "a chinese" could be used to refer
to a chinese meal or takeaway
So takeaway isn't a meal?
For a chinese meal think "restaurant" For a chinese takeaway think
"at home"
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
I tend to avoid such labels. I make a lot of meals that shock my wife
because of what she perceives as a category error. For example,
stir-fried food with mashed potatoes, or a bolognese sauce on toast,
or lamb chops with a pasta salad.
More often than I make Chinese *meals*, I make stir-fried Chinese
vegetables to go with a simply grilled meat main dish. Tonight, for
example, I'm grilling a simple London Broil, and stir-frying Yau Choy.
But speaking of category errors, my favorite Chinese cookbook,
"Stir-frying to the Sky's Edge," has a recipe foe stir-fried bagels.
Tonight being our 58th wedding anniversary, I've ordered an Indian
Takeway. The restaurant delivers ;-)
Did anyone say "It will never last."?[1]
Congratulations to you both and many happy returns.
[1] Of course it might be too late to rub their noses in it.
Indeed, so. I was said to be "cradle snatching". My bride was just 20.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Quinn C
2021-03-30 17:14:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
I tend to avoid such labels. I make a lot of meals that shock my wife
because of what she perceives as a category error. For example,
stir-fried food with mashed potatoes, or a bolognese sauce on toast, or
lamb chops with a pasta salad.
More often than I make Chinese *meals*, I make stir-fried Chinese
vegetables to go with a simply grilled meat main dish. Tonight, for
example, I'm grilling a simple London Broil, and stir-frying Yau Choy.
I looked up Yau Choy and was redirected to "rapeseed" on Wikipedia. So
for the moment I will assume that this is what I know as rapini, or
something similar. West coast - East coast cultural difference?
Post by Ken Blake
But speaking of category errors, my favorite Chinese cookbook,
"Stir-frying to the Sky's Edge," has a recipe foe stir-fried bagels.
Now I'm again reminded of that Chinese woman who said "my mother doesn't
really know how to cook, she just stir-fries everything with soy sauce."
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Ken Blake
2021-03-30 18:27:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
I tend to avoid such labels. I make a lot of meals that shock my wife
because of what she perceives as a category error. For example,
stir-fried food with mashed potatoes, or a bolognese sauce on toast, or
lamb chops with a pasta salad.
More often than I make Chinese *meals*, I make stir-fried Chinese
vegetables to go with a simply grilled meat main dish. Tonight, for
example, I'm grilling a simple London Broil, and stir-frying Yau Choy.
I looked up Yau Choy and was redirected to "rapeseed" on Wikipedia.
As far as I know, rapeseed is grown just to make canola oil, and
(almost?) never eaten as a vegetable.
Post by Quinn C
So
for the moment I will assume that this is what I know as rapini, or
something similar.
Same plant family (brassicaceae), but very different. Also different
from Gai lan (aka Chinese broccoli)

See
https://www.eater.com/2019/9/14/20865436/whats-the-difference-between-broccolini-broccoli-rabe-chinese-broccoli

I like them all, but my favorite is yau choy.
Post by Quinn C
West coast - East coast cultural difference?
It's sometimes spelled "yu choy," and sometimes called "choy sum." When
I lived in NY, it was (almost?) always called "choy sum," but here in
Tucson, it's "yau choy or "yu choy."


See a picture of it here:
https://www.specialtyproduce.com/produce/Yu_Choy_6719.php
--
Ken
Lewis
2021-03-30 19:40:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
I tend to avoid such labels. I make a lot of meals that shock my wife
because of what she perceives as a category error. For example,
stir-fried food with mashed potatoes, or a bolognese sauce on toast, or
lamb chops with a pasta salad.
More often than I make Chinese *meals*, I make stir-fried Chinese
vegetables to go with a simply grilled meat main dish. Tonight, for
example, I'm grilling a simple London Broil, and stir-frying Yau Choy.
I looked up Yau Choy and was redirected to "rapeseed" on Wikipedia.
As far as I know, rapeseed is grown just to make canola oil, and
(almost?) never eaten as a vegetable.
Isn't Canola a trade name (the CAN stands for Canada, as I recall). It's
just rapeseed oil of a specific variety. The rapeseed page on wikipedia
makes no mention of it being used for human consumption outside of the
oil product, though it does mention biodiesel, animal feed, and
fertilizer.
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
for the moment I will assume that this is what I know as rapini, or
something similar.
Same plant family (brassicaceae), but very different. Also different
from Gai lan (aka Chinese broccoli)
See
https://www.eater.com/2019/9/14/20865436/whats-the-difference-between-broccolini-broccoli-rabe-chinese-broccoli
I like them all, but my favorite is yau choy.
We are big fans of bok choy which used to be labeled "Chinese cabbage"
in the regular grocery stores, but we buy it at the local H-Mart.
Post by Ken Blake
It's sometimes spelled "yu choy," and sometimes called "choy sum." When
I lived in NY, it was (almost?) always called "choy sum," but here in
Tucson, it's "yau choy or "yu choy."
I gather that choy sum is similar to bok choy, but I don't think I've
had the choy sum to compare, or it was simialr enough I didn’t notice.
Post by Ken Blake
https://www.specialtyproduce.com/produce/Yu_Choy_6719.php
--
"Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers"
~Carlin
Ken Blake
2021-03-30 22:10:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Ken Blake
Here in my house, I often have chinese meals at home that are not
takeaway. I make them.
I tend to avoid such labels. I make a lot of meals that shock my wife
because of what she perceives as a category error. For example,
stir-fried food with mashed potatoes, or a bolognese sauce on toast, or
lamb chops with a pasta salad.
More often than I make Chinese *meals*, I make stir-fried Chinese
vegetables to go with a simply grilled meat main dish. Tonight, for
example, I'm grilling a simple London Broil, and stir-frying Yau Choy.
I looked up Yau Choy and was redirected to "rapeseed" on Wikipedia.
As far as I know, rapeseed is grown just to make canola oil, and
(almost?) never eaten as a vegetable.
Isn't Canola a trade name (the CAN stands for Canada, as I recall). It's
just rapeseed oil of a specific variety. The rapeseed page on wikipedia
makes no mention of it being used for human consumption outside of the
oil product, though it does mention biodiesel, animal feed, and
fertilizer.
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
for the moment I will assume that this is what I know as rapini, or
something similar.
Same plant family (brassicaceae), but very different. Also different
from Gai lan (aka Chinese broccoli)
See
https://www.eater.com/2019/9/14/20865436/whats-the-difference-between-broccolini-broccoli-rabe-chinese-broccoli
I like them all, but my favorite is yau choy.
We are big fans of bok choy
We are too. Note that are several varieties:

the big stuff sold in supermarkets (OK, but not as good as the others);

a smaller, long variety (I forget what it's called--just long bok choy?)

baby bok choy

Shanghai baby bok choy

I like them all, but I like the Shanghai baby bok choy the best.

Note that bok choy is sometimes spelled pak choy
Post by Lewis
which used to be labeled "Chinese cabbage"
in the regular grocery stores, but we buy it at the local H-Mart.
Post by Ken Blake
It's sometimes spelled "yu choy," and sometimes called "choy sum." When
I lived in NY, it was (almost?) always called "choy sum," but here in
Tucson, it's "yau choy or "yu choy."
I gather that choy sum is similar to bok choy, but I don't think I've
had the choy sum to compare, or it was simialr enough I didn’t notice.
You would notice. They're closely related and similar in some respects,
but they look and taste very different. Bok choy usually has white stems
and pale green leaves. Choy sum is all dark green and has small yellow
flowers.

Note that some bok choy you can find for sale also has small yellow flowers.
Post by Lewis
Post by Ken Blake
https://www.specialtyproduce.com/produce/Yu_Choy_6719.php
--
Ken
Quinn C
2021-03-30 21:50:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Tonight, for
example, I'm grilling a simple London Broil, and stir-frying Yau Choy.
I looked up Yau Choy and was redirected to "rapeseed" on Wikipedia.
As far as I know, rapeseed is grown just to make canola oil, and
(almost?) never eaten as a vegetable.
That was certainly not the ideal redirect. There is a page titled "Choy
sum".
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
So
for the moment I will assume that this is what I know as rapini, or
something similar.
Same plant family (brassicaceae), but very different.
Whoa. Not just same family or same genus, same species (Brassica rapa),
or I wouldn't have made the comparison. The family is very large! Plus,
yau choy presents in a similar way as rapini, as separate stems with
leaves.

Even the one species also include turnips, napa cabbage and bok choy,
which are quite different from rapini. Well, I never had turnip greens,
which would be the proper comparison, so I can't really say in that
case.

I see now that I've had yau choy/choy sum it under its Vietnamese name,
cai lan.

I don't understand why bok choy is so popular. It's my least favorite
Brassica so far.
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Ken Blake
2021-03-30 22:13:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Tonight, for
example, I'm grilling a simple London Broil, and stir-frying Yau Choy.
I looked up Yau Choy and was redirected to "rapeseed" on Wikipedia.
As far as I know, rapeseed is grown just to make canola oil, and
(almost?) never eaten as a vegetable.
That was certainly not the ideal redirect. There is a page titled "Choy
sum".
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
So
for the moment I will assume that this is what I know as rapini, or
something similar.
Same plant family (brassicaceae), but very different.
Whoa. Not just same family or same genus, same species (Brassica rapa),
or I wouldn't have made the comparison. The family is very large! Plus,
yau choy presents in a similar way as rapini, as separate stems with
leaves.
Even the one species also include turnips, napa cabbage and bok choy,
which are quite different from rapini. Well, I never had turnip greens,
which would be the proper comparison, so I can't really say in that
case.
I see now that I've had yau choy/choy sum it under its Vietnamese name,
cai lan.
I'm not familiar with that vietnamese name, but it looks like it's
probably the same thing as the Chinese gai lan. That's different from
yau choy and choy sum. It's often called Chinese broccoli.
Post by Quinn C
I don't understand why bok choy is so popular. It's my least favorite
Brassica so far.
De gustibus...
--
Ken
Quinn C
2021-03-30 22:59:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
I see now that I've had yau choy/choy sum it under its Vietnamese name,
cai lan.
I'm not familiar with that vietnamese name, but it looks like it's
probably the same thing as the Chinese gai lan. That's different from
yau choy and choy sum. It's often called Chinese broccoli.
That'd make sense. Unfortunately, Vietnamese Wikipedia isn't worked out
well in this area.

Ok, finally (after quite a few misses) here's a helpful page, from the
government no less:
<http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/facts/98-033.htm>

They say gai lan is called cai ro in Vietnamese. No cai lan on that
page.

Apparently, yau choy is cai ngot in Vietnamese. That doesn't sound
familiar. I think I've heard the Japanese name aburana ("oil green"),
but don't think I've eaten it there.

The Shanghai pak choy is common in Japan (chingensai). That, I've had
regularly.
--
... it might be nice to see ourselves reflected in TV shows and
Pride season campaigns, but the cis white men who invented the
gender binary still own the damn mirror.
-- Delilah Friedler at slate.com
Chrysi Cat
2021-03-30 22:40:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
Post by Ken Blake
Tonight, for
example, I'm grilling a simple London Broil, and stir-frying Yau Choy.
I looked up Yau Choy and was redirected to "rapeseed" on Wikipedia.
As far as I know, rapeseed is grown just to make canola oil, and
(almost?) never eaten as a vegetable.
That was certainly not the ideal redirect. There is a page titled "Choy
sum".
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Quinn C
So
for the moment I will assume that this is what I know as rapini, or
something similar.
Same plant family (brassicaceae), but very different.
Whoa. Not just same family or same genus, same species (Brassica rapa),
or I wouldn't have made the comparison. The family is very large! Plus,
yau choy presents in a similar way as rapini, as separate stems with
leaves.
Even the one species also include turnips, napa cabbage and bok choy,
which are quite different from rapini. Well, I never had turnip greens,
which would be the proper comparison, so I can't really say in that
case.
I see now that I've had yau choy/choy sum it under its Vietnamese name,
cai lan.
I don't understand why bok choy is so popular. It's my least favorite
Brassica so far.
LEAST favourite?!?

I'd have to say Brussels sprouts are my /least/ favourite, because they
have a bitterness that can't be cooked out of them.

Not sure where I'd come down on rapa cultivars instead.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Quinn C
2021-03-30 23:09:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Quinn C
I don't understand why bok choy is so popular. It's my least favorite
Brassica so far.
LEAST favourite?!?
Yes. They turn into a tasteless watery mush in my mouth that I don't
want to swallow. I think on at least one occasion, I've followed through
on this feeling, gone to spit them out and stopped trying.
Post by Chrysi Cat
I'd have to say Brussels sprouts are my /least/ favourite, because they
have a bitterness that can't be cooked out of them.
Not sure where I'd come down on rapa cultivars instead.
I love Brussels sprouts, always have (even when I was a very fussy eater
as a child), and I'd describe them as sweet. Famously, this depends on
your genes. Everyone in my family likes them.
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Peter Moylan
2021-03-30 23:55:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
I'd have to say Brussels sprouts are my /least/ favourite, because
they have a bitterness that can't be cooked out of them.
Perhaps you're not peeling them properly. You have to remove the dark
green outer leaves, until you get down to the more delicate pale green
of the core.

The dark leaves are indeed bitter, so put them on the compost heap.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Jerry Friedman
2021-03-30 02:00:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Post by ***@gmail.com
I'm a Chinese.
I'm Chinese.
What's differences between them?
I am Chinese.
As others have posted, this is the better sentence
You do not use a measure word.
I am a Chinese.
This is old fashioned at best.
It was once a normal word, despite some flights of fancy in this thread.
As the Oxford English Dictionary says,

1. a. A native of China. [The plural /Chineses/ was in regular use during 17th cent.:
since it became obsolete /Chinese/ has been singular and plural; in modern times
a singular /Chinee/ has arisen in vulgar use in U.S. (So sailors say /Maltee,
Portuguee/.)]

1606 E. Scott (title) An Exact Discourse of the..East Indians, as well Chyneses as
Iauans.
1667 J. Milton Paradise Lost iii. 438 Sericana, where Chineses drive With Sails and
Wind thir canie Waggons light.
1697 W. Dampier New Voy. around World xv. 406 The Chinese in general are tall.
1702 J. Cunningham in Philos. Trans. (Royal Soc.) 23 1206 Saying that the
Chineses are strangers to the art of grafting.
1842 J. C. Prichard Nat. Hist. Man 228 The Chinese have long been the most
numerous and powerful of these nations.
1848 S. W. Williams Middle Kingdom II. xiv. 52 If a Chinese feared or expected
something from a foreigner.

The OED seems to want to prove that "Chineses" existed. For an example of the
singular earlier than 1848,

"He [a freethinker] is sometimes seen in the guise of a Chinese, talking notably of
Confucius : Anon he is a Turk, lavishing praises on Mohammed..."

Ely Bates, /A Chinese Fragment: Containing an enquiry into the present state of
religion in England/ (1786)

https://books.google.com/books?id=g5hhAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA162
Post by s***@my-deja.com
Native speakers would not use this structure.
...

Not any more.
--
Jerry Friedman
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