Discussion:
Kedgeree
(too old to reply)
Tony Cooper
2020-01-12 06:16:33 UTC
Permalink
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.

I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.

Still a common breakfast dish?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-01-12 07:27:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
Never was, in my experience, but others may have different experiences.
--
athel
Katy Jennison
2020-01-12 08:32:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK.  One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s.  It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
Never was, in my experience, but others may have different experiences.
Smoked haddock, not kippers. Delicious. These days, more likely a
supper dish, or even lunch, but still also breakfast.
--
Katy Jennison
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-12 10:32:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
Never was, in my experience, but others may have different experiences.
Smoked haddock, not kippers. Delicious. These days, more likely a
supper dish, or even lunch, but still also breakfast.
Scottish in origin, I thought.
Is that correct?

Jan
Ross
2020-01-12 10:55:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
Never was, in my experience, but others may have different experiences.
Smoked haddock, not kippers. Delicious. These days, more likely a
supper dish, or even lunch, but still also breakfast.
Scottish in origin, I thought.
Is that correct?
Jan
Indian. < Hindi khichrī, Sanskrit k'rsara ‘dish of rice and sesamum’. Both Indians and English added other ingredients.
charles
2020-01-12 11:24:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it
seems to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and
up to the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in
later times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
Never was, in my experience, but others may have different
experiences.
Smoked haddock, not kippers. Delicious. These days, more likely a
supper dish, or even lunch, but still also breakfast.
Scottish in origin, I thought. Is that correct?
It originated in India - the rice is a bit of a give-away. The word is
Hindi. Properly the dish is "Fish Kedgeree".
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Janet
2020-01-12 12:22:02 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@de-ster.xs4all.nl>, ***@de-
ster.demon.nl says...
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
Never was, in my experience, but others may have different experiences.
Smoked haddock, not kippers. Delicious. These days, more likely a
supper dish, or even lunch, but still also breakfast.
Scottish in origin, I thought.
Is that correct?
Kedgeree's origin was Indian, imported to Britain in the days of the
Raj.


You're perhaps thinking of Cullen skink, a smoked-fish soup, delicious
trad Scottish recipe.

Janet.
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-12 13:00:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
Never was, in my experience, but others may have different experiences.
Smoked haddock, not kippers. Delicious. These days, more likely a
supper dish, or even lunch, but still also breakfast.
Scottish in origin, I thought.
Is that correct?
The word is from India, as I recall. Yes - the dictionary tells me that
the native dish lacked fish - basically rice, pulses, onion, eggs,
seasonings. The English version is pulse-free, and I think the
best-known smoked haddock is from Scotland ('Arbroath smokies').
Thanks. Trivia: the haddock is a 'schelvis' in Dutch.
It is also a Dutch family name, and the origin
of most of the 'Shalvis' people living in the USA.
(best know from Jill Shalvis, bestselling romance author)
Not all Dutch have 'De' or Van' names.
Kippers are best served alone, with toast and butter on the side, and a
pot of tea.
Ugh. Your taste,

Jan
Peter Young
2020-01-12 07:40:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
I've not seen it at a hotel breakfast for many years, but at least one pub
where we go for lunch has it i=on the menu. When my wife was alive I used
to make it occasionally for our evening meal, but haven't done so
recently.

Kippers were never part of the recipe, though.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
charles
2020-01-12 10:05:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the characters
complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with only one
kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later times
than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
I've not seen it at a hotel breakfast for many years, but at least one
pub where we go for lunch has it i=on the menu. When my wife was alive I
used to make it occasionally for our evening meal, but haven't done so
recently.
Kippers were never part of the recipe, though.
indeed not. Smoked haddock
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Tony Cooper
2020-01-12 14:02:20 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 10:05:24 +0000 (GMT), charles
Post by charles
Post by Peter Young
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the characters
complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with only one
kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later times
than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
I've not seen it at a hotel breakfast for many years, but at least one
pub where we go for lunch has it i=on the menu. When my wife was alive I
used to make it occasionally for our evening meal, but haven't done so
recently.
Kippers were never part of the recipe, though.
indeed not. Smoked haddock
I can only report what was on the page of the book I've been reading.

I did try kippers when I was in England, and that will be my sole
experience with kippers. I was also willing to experiment and tried
lamb kidneys. They got as far as being on my plate, but left the
table still on my plate.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Katy Jennison
2020-01-12 14:14:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 10:05:24 +0000 (GMT), charles
Post by charles
Post by Peter Young
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the characters
complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with only one
kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later times
than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
I've not seen it at a hotel breakfast for many years, but at least one
pub where we go for lunch has it i=on the menu. When my wife was alive I
used to make it occasionally for our evening meal, but haven't done so
recently.
Kippers were never part of the recipe, though.
indeed not. Smoked haddock
I can only report what was on the page of the book I've been reading.
You haven't given us the author and title, though, nor the date of
publication. We don't know if it was written during WWII by someone who
ought to have known better, or by some present-day whipper-snapper who
hasn't done their research.
--
Katy Jennison
Tony Cooper
2020-01-12 14:55:29 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 14:14:25 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 10:05:24 +0000 (GMT), charles
Post by charles
Post by Peter Young
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the characters
complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with only one
kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later times
than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
I've not seen it at a hotel breakfast for many years, but at least one
pub where we go for lunch has it i=on the menu. When my wife was alive I
used to make it occasionally for our evening meal, but haven't done so
recently.
Kippers were never part of the recipe, though.
indeed not. Smoked haddock
I can only report what was on the page of the book I've been reading.
You haven't given us the author and title, though, nor the date of
publication. We don't know if it was written during WWII by someone who
ought to have known better, or by some present-day whipper-snapper who
hasn't done their research.
It's my "car book". When I check out books from the library I bring
some inside and leave some in the car. The "car books" are read when
I stop somewhere for lunch, have to wait in a doctor's office, or
otherwise have a reason to stop for a period of time when out and
about.

I'll have to report back on that later.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Tony Cooper
2020-01-12 19:37:41 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 09:55:29 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 14:14:25 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 10:05:24 +0000 (GMT), charles
Post by charles
Post by Peter Young
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the characters
complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with only one
kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later times
than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
I've not seen it at a hotel breakfast for many years, but at least one
pub where we go for lunch has it i=on the menu. When my wife was alive I
used to make it occasionally for our evening meal, but haven't done so
recently.
Kippers were never part of the recipe, though.
indeed not. Smoked haddock
I can only report what was on the page of the book I've been reading.
You haven't given us the author and title, though, nor the date of
publication. We don't know if it was written during WWII by someone who
ought to have known better, or by some present-day whipper-snapper who
hasn't done their research.
It's my "car book". When I check out books from the library I bring
some inside and leave some in the car. The "car books" are read when
I stop somewhere for lunch, have to wait in a doctor's office, or
otherwise have a reason to stop for a period of time when out and
about.
I'll have to report back on that later.
My report: The book is by Janet Quin-Harkin writing under the name of
"Rhys Bowen". She was born in Bath (1941...hardly a whipper-snapper)
but now lives in the US. Winner of an Edgar, Mary Higgins Clark, and
Agatha award among others.

The book was first published in 2017 and is set primarily in Kent
during WWII. One character works at Bletchley Park, but the family
home where the kedgeree is served is in Kent.

The father is the one lamenting that he can have but one kipper due to
rationing, but later a daughter is pleased to find bits of kipper in
her kedgeree.

I'm a bit puzzled by the objection to kippers in kedgeree. While
haddock is the standard according to all references, a family
preference for a recipe variation is not unheard of. It's not like
they're having peanut butter on their toast soldiers.

This is the first Rhys Bowen novel I've read, and I don't think I'll
check out another. She's a prolific author that cracks out series of
books based on certain characters and that type of author tends to
write the same book over-and-over with minor changes (e.g. Patricia
Cornwell).

I like light mysteries for my "car books" that I can read in spurts
and not lose track of things, but this may be too light.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-01-12 19:43:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 09:55:29 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 14:14:25 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 10:05:24 +0000 (GMT), charles
Post by charles
Post by Peter Young
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the characters
complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with only one
kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later times
than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
I've not seen it at a hotel breakfast for many years, but at least one
pub where we go for lunch has it i=on the menu. When my wife was alive I
used to make it occasionally for our evening meal, but haven't done so
recently.
Kippers were never part of the recipe, though.
indeed not. Smoked haddock
I can only report what was on the page of the book I've been reading.
You haven't given us the author and title, though, nor the date of
publication. We don't know if it was written during WWII by someone who
ought to have known better, or by some present-day whipper-snapper who
hasn't done their research.
It's my "car book". When I check out books from the library I bring
some inside and leave some in the car. The "car books" are read when
I stop somewhere for lunch, have to wait in a doctor's office, or
otherwise have a reason to stop for a period of time when out and
about.
I'll have to report back on that later.
My report: The book is by Janet Quin-Harkin
I don't know who Harkin may be, but we already have a Janet and a
Quinn. Could they be the same person?
Post by Tony Cooper
writing under the name of
"Rhys Bowen". She was born in Bath (1941...hardly a whipper-snapper)
but now lives in the US. Winner of an Edgar, Mary Higgins Clark, and
Agatha award among others.
The book was first published in 2017 and is set primarily in Kent
during WWII. One character works at Bletchley Park, but the family
home where the kedgeree is served is in Kent.
The father is the one lamenting that he can have but one kipper due to
rationing, but later a daughter is pleased to find bits of kipper in
her kedgeree.
I'm a bit puzzled by the objection to kippers in kedgeree. While
haddock is the standard according to all references, a family
preference for a recipe variation is not unheard of. It's not like
they're having peanut butter on their toast soldiers.
This is the first Rhys Bowen novel I've read, and I don't think I'll
check out another. She's a prolific author that cracks out series of
books based on certain characters and that type of author tends to
write the same book over-and-over with minor changes (e.g. Patricia
Cornwell).
I like light mysteries for my "car books" that I can read in spurts
and not lose track of things, but this may be too light.
--
athel
Tony Cooper
2020-01-12 19:53:20 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 20:43:34 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 09:55:29 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 14:14:25 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 10:05:24 +0000 (GMT), charles
Post by charles
Post by Peter Young
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the characters
complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with only one
kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later times
than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
I've not seen it at a hotel breakfast for many years, but at least one
pub where we go for lunch has it i=on the menu. When my wife was alive I
used to make it occasionally for our evening meal, but haven't done so
recently.
Kippers were never part of the recipe, though.
indeed not. Smoked haddock
I can only report what was on the page of the book I've been reading.
You haven't given us the author and title, though, nor the date of
publication. We don't know if it was written during WWII by someone who
ought to have known better, or by some present-day whipper-snapper who
hasn't done their research.
It's my "car book". When I check out books from the library I bring
some inside and leave some in the car. The "car books" are read when
I stop somewhere for lunch, have to wait in a doctor's office, or
otherwise have a reason to stop for a period of time when out and
about.
I'll have to report back on that later.
My report: The book is by Janet Quin-Harkin
I don't know who Harkin may be, but we already have a Janet and a
Quinn. Could they be the same person?
Damn. I hope not. I referred to Quin-Harkin as "she".
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
writing under the name of
"Rhys Bowen". She was born in Bath (1941...hardly a whipper-snapper)
but now lives in the US. Winner of an Edgar, Mary Higgins Clark, and
Agatha award among others.
The book was first published in 2017 and is set primarily in Kent
during WWII. One character works at Bletchley Park, but the family
home where the kedgeree is served is in Kent.
The father is the one lamenting that he can have but one kipper due to
rationing, but later a daughter is pleased to find bits of kipper in
her kedgeree.
I'm a bit puzzled by the objection to kippers in kedgeree. While
haddock is the standard according to all references, a family
preference for a recipe variation is not unheard of. It's not like
they're having peanut butter on their toast soldiers.
This is the first Rhys Bowen novel I've read, and I don't think I'll
check out another. She's a prolific author that cracks out series of
books based on certain characters and that type of author tends to
write the same book over-and-over with minor changes (e.g. Patricia
Cornwell).
I like light mysteries for my "car books" that I can read in spurts
and not lose track of things, but this may be too light.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter Moylan
2020-01-13 14:11:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
My report: The book is by Janet Quin-Harkin
I don't know who Harkin may be, but we already have a Janet and a
Quinn. Could they be the same person?
Their writing styles are noticeably different. Besides, Janet has never
given us reason to doubt that she is female.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Katy Jennison
2020-01-12 20:45:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 09:55:29 -0500, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 14:14:25 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 10:05:24 +0000 (GMT), charles
Post by charles
Post by Peter Young
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the characters
complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with only one
kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later times
than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
I've not seen it at a hotel breakfast for many years, but at least one
pub where we go for lunch has it i=on the menu. When my wife was alive I
used to make it occasionally for our evening meal, but haven't done so
recently.
Kippers were never part of the recipe, though.
indeed not. Smoked haddock
I can only report what was on the page of the book I've been reading.
You haven't given us the author and title, though, nor the date of
publication. We don't know if it was written during WWII by someone who
ought to have known better, or by some present-day whipper-snapper who
hasn't done their research.
It's my "car book". When I check out books from the library I bring
some inside and leave some in the car. The "car books" are read when
I stop somewhere for lunch, have to wait in a doctor's office, or
otherwise have a reason to stop for a period of time when out and
about.
I'll have to report back on that later.
My report: The book is by Janet Quin-Harkin writing under the name of
"Rhys Bowen". She was born in Bath (1941...hardly a whipper-snapper)
but now lives in the US. Winner of an Edgar, Mary Higgins Clark, and
Agatha award among others.
No, not a whipper-snapper. She's a little older than I am, but born in
the same city. However, she probably wasn't personally eating kedgeree
during the war.
Post by Tony Cooper
The book was first published in 2017 and is set primarily in Kent
during WWII. One character works at Bletchley Park, but the family
home where the kedgeree is served is in Kent.
The father is the one lamenting that he can have but one kipper due to
rationing, but later a daughter is pleased to find bits of kipper in
her kedgeree.
I'm a bit puzzled by the objection to kippers in kedgeree. While
haddock is the standard according to all references, a family
preference for a recipe variation is not unheard of. It's not like
they're having peanut butter on their toast soldiers.
I suppose that if, due to the war, smoked haddock wasn't available but
kippers were, one might substitute kippers. I'll give her that. I'm
not entirely convinced, though: a very swift search turned up this:

https://www.lavenderandlovage.com/2012/11/the-wartime-kitchen-and-day-five-ration-book-fish-on-friday-devilled-fish-recipe.html

which says: "Smoked fish may seem to be a luxury today, but due to its
long shelf life after smoking, smoked fish was also popular, especially
smoked haddock. My mum remembers a favourite supper dish of smoked
haddock in milk, in to which fingers of bread were dipped to mop all the
precious juices up with."

Kippers are of course herrings, and during the war one might in
principle catch them off the coast and smoke one's own. If one of the
characters worked at Bletchley Park, though, it's unlikely they were
living on the coast; Bletchley Park is rather a commute from anywhere in
Kent, let alone the Kentish coast. But in this sort of novel any
considerations like that are taking such details far too seriously, and
it seems to me more likely that it was simply a mistake.
Post by Tony Cooper
This is the first Rhys Bowen novel I've read, and I don't think I'll
check out another. She's a prolific author that cracks out series of
books based on certain characters and that type of author tends to
write the same book over-and-over with minor changes (e.g. Patricia
Cornwell).
I like light mysteries for my "car books" that I can read in spurts
and not lose track of things, but this may be too light.
The images of the book covers look extremely light if not positively fluffy.
--
Katy Jennison
Tony Cooper
2020-01-12 21:52:04 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 20:45:53 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
I'll have to report back on that later.
My report: The book is by Janet Quin-Harkin writing under the name of
"Rhys Bowen". She was born in Bath (1941...hardly a whipper-snapper)
but now lives in the US. Winner of an Edgar, Mary Higgins Clark, and
Agatha award among others.
No, not a whipper-snapper. She's a little older than I am, but born in
the same city. However, she probably wasn't personally eating kedgeree
during the war.
Post by Tony Cooper
The book was first published in 2017 and is set primarily in Kent
during WWII. One character works at Bletchley Park, but the family
home where the kedgeree is served is in Kent.
The father is the one lamenting that he can have but one kipper due to
rationing, but later a daughter is pleased to find bits of kipper in
her kedgeree.
I'm a bit puzzled by the objection to kippers in kedgeree. While
haddock is the standard according to all references, a family
preference for a recipe variation is not unheard of. It's not like
they're having peanut butter on their toast soldiers.
I suppose that if, due to the war, smoked haddock wasn't available but
kippers were, one might substitute kippers. I'll give her that. I'm
https://www.lavenderandlovage.com/2012/11/the-wartime-kitchen-and-day-five-ration-book-fish-on-friday-devilled-fish-recipe.html
which says: "Smoked fish may seem to be a luxury today, but due to its
long shelf life after smoking, smoked fish was also popular, especially
smoked haddock. My mum remembers a favourite supper dish of smoked
haddock in milk, in to which fingers of bread were dipped to mop all the
precious juices up with."
Kippers are of course herrings, and during the war one might in
principle catch them off the coast and smoke one's own. If one of the
characters worked at Bletchley Park, though, it's unlikely they were
living on the coast; Bletchley Park is rather a commute from anywhere in
Kent, let alone the Kentish coast.
No, that daughter was "in digs" near Bletchley Park. Much complaining
about her landlady's food and the working conditions for females at
Bletchley Park. She's on the night shift translating German
transmissions (she's proficient in German) and the canteen at Blechley
doesn't serve meals for that shift.

Also much complaining about the women being given low-level work to do
and the men not valuing the input of the female staff. Also,
complaints about the length of time and comfort of train-travel back
to Kent for a visit. From what I've read in other accounts - both in
fiction and non-fiction - the complaints accurately portray the times.

This is a review of the book:
https://tubarksblog.com/2017/07/09/book-review-farleigh-field-novel-world-war-ii/

Speaking of inattention to detail, the book's first line puts the
setting in "Elmsleigh, Kent". "Elmsleigh", is fictional, but Kent is
mentioned several times. Also, characters have neighbors in Sevenoaks
(which is described as walkable distance away from the family home),
and that's in Kent.

The reviewer above says it's set the "Tandridge District of Surrey".
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent but two different counties.
Post by Katy Jennison
But in this sort of novel any
considerations like that are taking such details far too seriously, and
it seems to me more likely that it was simply a mistake.
Perhaps she subscribes to the theory that certain words are funny or
more interesting because of how they are spelled. "Kippers" sounds
more interesting than "haddock" to me.
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
This is the first Rhys Bowen novel I've read, and I don't think I'll
check out another. She's a prolific author that cracks out series of
books based on certain characters and that type of author tends to
write the same book over-and-over with minor changes (e.g. Patricia
Cornwell).
I like light mysteries for my "car books" that I can read in spurts
and not lose track of things, but this may be too light.
The images of the book covers look extremely light if not positively fluffy.
Not this book's cover.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-13 01:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 20:45:53 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
I'll have to report back on that later.
My report: The book is by Janet Quin-Harkin writing under the name of
"Rhys Bowen". She was born in Bath (1941...hardly a whipper-snapper)
but now lives in the US. Winner of an Edgar, Mary Higgins Clark, and
Agatha award among others.
No, not a whipper-snapper. She's a little older than I am, but born in
the same city. However, she probably wasn't personally eating kedgeree
during the war.
Post by Tony Cooper
The book was first published in 2017 and is set primarily in Kent
during WWII. One character works at Bletchley Park, but the family
home where the kedgeree is served is in Kent.
The father is the one lamenting that he can have but one kipper due to
rationing, but later a daughter is pleased to find bits of kipper in
her kedgeree.
I'm a bit puzzled by the objection to kippers in kedgeree. While
haddock is the standard according to all references, a family
preference for a recipe variation is not unheard of. It's not like
they're having peanut butter on their toast soldiers.
I suppose that if, due to the war, smoked haddock wasn't available but
kippers were, one might substitute kippers. I'll give her that. I'm
https://www.lavenderandlovage.com/2012/11/the-wartime-kitchen-and-day-five-ration-book-fish-on-friday-devilled-fish-recipe.html
which says: "Smoked fish may seem to be a luxury today, but due to its
long shelf life after smoking, smoked fish was also popular, especially
smoked haddock. My mum remembers a favourite supper dish of smoked
haddock in milk, in to which fingers of bread were dipped to mop all the
precious juices up with."
Kippers are of course herrings, and during the war one might in
principle catch them off the coast and smoke one's own. If one of the
characters worked at Bletchley Park, though, it's unlikely they were
living on the coast; Bletchley Park is rather a commute from anywhere in
Kent, let alone the Kentish coast.
No, that daughter was "in digs" near Bletchley Park. Much complaining
about her landlady's food and the working conditions for females at
Bletchley Park. She's on the night shift translating German
transmissions (she's proficient in German) and the canteen at Blechley
doesn't serve meals for that shift.
Also much complaining about the women being given low-level work to do
and the men not valuing the input of the female staff. Also,
complaints about the length of time and comfort of train-travel back
to Kent for a visit. From what I've read in other accounts - both in
fiction and non-fiction - the complaints accurately portray the times.
https://tubarksblog.com/2017/07/09/book-review-farleigh-field-novel-world-war-ii/
Speaking of inattention to detail, the book's first line puts the
setting in "Elmsleigh, Kent". "Elmsleigh", is fictional, but Kent is
mentioned several times. Also, characters have neighbors in Sevenoaks
(which is described as walkable distance away from the family home),
and that's in Kent.
I suppose there's no reason to believe that herring eaten in Kent was
caught nearby. Fishing in the waters around Kent would have had certain
drawbacks during WWII.
--
Sam Plusnet
Mark Brader
2020-01-13 02:26:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
--
Mark Brader "TeX has found at least one bug in every Pascal
Toronto compiler it's been run on, I think, and at least
***@vex.net two in every C compiler." -- Knuth
Tony Cooper
2020-01-13 03:10:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.

Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Ross
2020-01-13 04:41:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
The point is that all count(r)ies that are adjacent
are "partially adjacent". The Northern and Southern
Hemispheres could be considered "totally adjacent",
but not any actual count(r)ies.

I guess what you meant was that they share only a
small part of their boundaries. I don't know of a
simpler expression for that.
Paul Wolff
2020-01-13 10:10:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
The point is that all count(r)ies that are adjacent
are "partially adjacent". The Northern and Southern
Hemispheres could be considered "totally adjacent",
but not any actual count(r)ies.
I guess what you meant was that they share only a
small part of their boundaries. I don't know of a
simpler expression for that.
I vote for a revival of 'contingent' with that meaning. (How touching!)
--
Paul
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-13 14:09:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
The point is that all count(r)ies that are adjacent
are "partially adjacent". The Northern and Southern
Hemispheres could be considered "totally adjacent",
but not any actual count(r)ies.
Oh, come now. Lesotho and South Africa are totally adjacent under your
definition, also San Marino and Vatican City with Italy, and whether
Monaco is totally adjacent to France, or Gambia to Senegal, could spark
a Talmudic discussion.
Post by Ross
I guess what you meant was that they share only a
small part of their boundaries. I don't know of a
simpler expression for that.
The first three are "enclaves." There are a very few examples of nested
enclaves, one being in the UAE.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-01-13 15:33:13 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:09:47 GMT, "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and
Surrey are partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
The point is that all count(r)ies that are adjacent
are "partially adjacent". The Northern and Southern
Hemispheres could be considered "totally adjacent",
but not any actual count(r)ies.
Oh, come now. Lesotho and South Africa are totally adjacent under your
definition, also San Marino and Vatican City with Italy, and whether
Monaco is totally adjacent to France, or Gambia to Senegal, could
spark a Talmudic discussion.
Post by Ross
I guess what you meant was that they share only a
small part of their boundaries. I don't know of a
simpler expression for that.
The first three are "enclaves." There are a very few examples of
nested enclaves, one being in the UAE.
Apologies everyone, PTD was only on a 100 day KF. 'll put him back
pronto; but: ain't the internet wunnerful?

https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSLTBW_
2.3.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r3.ceea200/clcnst1.htm

for those who can't/don't/will-never click on a link here's the top bit:


An enclave is a logical runtime structure that supports the execution of
a collection of routines (see Program management model for a detailed
description of Language Environment enclaves).
Language Environment explicitly supports the execution of a single
enclave within a Language Environment process. However, by using the
system services and language constructs described in this topic, you can
create an additional, or nested, enclave and initiate its execution
within the same process.


Yet never a mention of CGA.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-13 20:00:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The first three are "enclaves." There are a very few examples of nested
enclaves, one being in the UAE.
I am happy to learn that there are breeding pairs.

When can we expect the patter of tiny enclave feet?
--
Sam Plusnet
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-13 20:55:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The first three are "enclaves." There are a very few examples of nested
enclaves, one being in the UAE.
I am happy to learn that there are breeding pairs.
When can we expect the patter of tiny enclave feet?
A book on "interesting things on maps" -- maybe it's even Ken Jennings's
book -- lists several such. They seem to result from faultily drawn treaties
at the ends of conflicts; I think one bunch is on one of Belgium's borders,
and another is between India and Pakistan.
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-13 21:33:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The first three are "enclaves." There are a very few examples of nested
enclaves, one being in the UAE.
I am happy to learn that there are breeding pairs.
When can we expect the patter of tiny enclave feet?
A book on "interesting things on maps" -- maybe it's even Ken Jennings's
book -- lists several such. They seem to result from faultily drawn treaties
at the ends of conflicts; I think one bunch is on one of Belgium's borders,
and another is between India and Pakistan.
The place (Dutch) is called Baarle Nassau.
Enclosed in it are many non-contigeous parts of Baarle Hertog (Belgian)
Some parts of Baarle Hertog enclose Dutch counter-enclaves.

No treaty errors or faulty map making involved.
At the separation each side kept what they had.

Jan
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-13 22:02:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The first three are "enclaves." There are a very few examples of nested
enclaves, one being in the UAE.
I am happy to learn that there are breeding pairs.
When can we expect the patter of tiny enclave feet?
A book on "interesting things on maps" -- maybe it's even Ken Jennings's
book -- lists several such. They seem to result from faultily drawn treaties
at the ends of conflicts; I think one bunch is on one of Belgium's borders,
and another is between India and Pakistan.
The place (Dutch) is called Baarle Nassau.
Enclosed in it are many non-contigeous parts of Baarle Hertog (Belgian)
Some parts of Baarle Hertog enclose Dutch counter-enclaves.
No treaty errors or faulty map making involved.
At the separation each side kept what they had.
And what was "involved" in their origin?
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-13 22:04:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The first three are "enclaves." There are a very few examples of nested
enclaves, one being in the UAE.
I am happy to learn that there are breeding pairs.
When can we expect the patter of tiny enclave feet?
It is feared that they'll be replaced by autoclaves.
--
Jerry Friedman
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-01-13 22:33:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The first three are "enclaves." There are a very few examples of nested
enclaves, one being in the UAE.
I am happy to learn that there are breeding pairs.
When can we expect the patter of tiny enclave feet?
What? I have enough trouble with washing my sloughing feet in a trough!
<Cough>
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Ross
2020-01-13 20:28:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
The point is that all count(r)ies that are adjacent
are "partially adjacent". The Northern and Southern
Hemispheres could be considered "totally adjacent",
but not any actual count(r)ies.
Oh, come now. Lesotho and South Africa are totally adjacent under your
definition, also San Marino and Vatican City with Italy, and whether
Monaco is totally adjacent to France, or Gambia to Senegal, could spark
a Talmudic discussion.
No. Because the shared border is the totality for only
one of the countries.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
I guess what you meant was that they share only a
small part of their boundaries. I don't know of a
simpler expression for that.
The first three are "enclaves." There are a very few examples of nested
enclaves, one being in the UAE.
Ross
2020-01-13 20:44:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
The point is that all count(r)ies that are adjacent
are "partially adjacent". The Northern and Southern
Hemispheres could be considered "totally adjacent",
but not any actual count(r)ies.
Oh, come now. Lesotho and South Africa are totally adjacent under your
definition, also San Marino and Vatican City with Italy, and whether
Monaco is totally adjacent to France, or Gambia to Senegal, could spark
a Talmudic discussion.
No. Because the shared border is the totality for only
one of the countries.
OK, you could maybe state a one-way relation:
Lesotho is totally adjacent to SAf. But not vice versa.
And the reciprocal relation is what we were talking about.
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
I guess what you meant was that they share only a
small part of their boundaries. I don't know of a
simpler expression for that.
The first three are "enclaves." There are a very few examples of nested
enclaves, one being in the UAE.
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-13 22:06:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
The point is that all count(r)ies that are adjacent
are "partially adjacent". The Northern and Southern
Hemispheres could be considered "totally adjacent",
but not any actual count(r)ies.
Oh, come now. Lesotho and South Africa are totally adjacent under your
definition, also San Marino and Vatican City with Italy, and whether
Monaco is totally adjacent to France, or Gambia to Senegal, could spark
a Talmudic discussion.
No. Because the shared border is the totality for only
one of the countries.
Lesotho is totally adjacent to SAf. But not vice versa.
And the reciprocal relation is what we were talking about.
...

When I was responding to Lewis, I wondered whether one would say
Lesotho was totally adjacent to South Africa, or the other way
around.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-13 20:52:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
The point is that all count(r)ies that are adjacent
are "partially adjacent". The Northern and Southern
Hemispheres could be considered "totally adjacent",
but not any actual count(r)ies.
Oh, come now. Lesotho and South Africa are totally adjacent under your
definition, also San Marino and Vatican City with Italy, and whether
Monaco is totally adjacent to France, or Gambia to Senegal, could spark
a Talmudic discussion.
No. Because the shared border is the totality for only
one of the countries.
Transparent goalpost-move. Nowhere did you offer a definition of "totally
adjacent," and I fail to see how San Marino, Vatican City, and Lesotho
fail to qualify for any reasonable interpretation of the neologism or
nonce construction "totally adjacent," which was nothing more than a
response to TC's rather silly "partially adjacent."
Post by Ross
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ross
I guess what you meant was that they share only a
small part of their boundaries. I don't know of a
simpler expression for that.
The first three are "enclaves." There are a very few examples of nested
enclaves, one being in the UAE.
Mark Brader
2020-01-13 05:25:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
Adjacent, with a relatively short boundary.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Alas, there is NO SUCH THING as 'NO SUCH THING as
***@vex.net | privileged access.'" -- Alan Silverstein
Lewis
2020-01-13 06:59:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
You said what I would say.

Colorado and Wyoming are adjacent. Colorado and Oklahoma are partially
adjacent.
--
It was sad music. But it waved its sadness like a battle flag. It
said the universe had done all it could, but you were still
alive.
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-13 15:39:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
You said what I would say.
Colorado and Wyoming are adjacent. Colorado and Oklahoma are partially
adjacent.
Oklahoma and Texas, or the U.S. and Canada, are doubly adjacent?
Oklahoma and New Mexico are minutely adjacent? Colorado and Arizona are
infinitesimally adjacent?

What about Louisiana and Texas?

Anyway, "partially adjacent" strikes me as an idea we can do without.
--
Jerry Friedman
Mack A. Damia
2020-01-13 15:56:28 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:39:33 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
You said what I would say.
Colorado and Wyoming are adjacent. Colorado and Oklahoma are partially
adjacent.
Oklahoma and Texas, or the U.S. and Canada, are doubly adjacent?
Oklahoma and New Mexico are minutely adjacent? Colorado and Arizona are
infinitesimally adjacent?
What about Louisiana and Texas?
Anyway, "partially adjacent" strikes me as an idea we can do without.
The Four Corners Monument marks the quadripoint in the Southwestern
United States where the states of Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, and
Utah meet. It is the only point in the United States shared by four
states, leading to the area being named the Four Corners region.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-01-13 17:36:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:39:33 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey
are partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
You said what I would say.
Colorado and Wyoming are adjacent. Colorado and Oklahoma are
partially adjacent.
Oklahoma and Texas, or the U.S. and Canada, are doubly adjacent?
Oklahoma and New Mexico are minutely adjacent? Colorado and Arizona
are infinitesimally adjacent?
What about Louisiana and Texas?
Anyway, "partially adjacent" strikes me as an idea we can do without.
The Four Corners Monument marks the quadripoint in the Southwestern
United States where the states of Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, and
Utah meet. It is the only point in the United States shared by four
states, leading to the area being named the Four Corners region.
Pah. Euler would be disappointed. OK, no snipping.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-01-13 22:30:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mack A. Damia
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:39:33 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and
Surrey are partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a
common border in one area, but not in a complete side.
You said what I would say.
Colorado and Wyoming are adjacent. Colorado and Oklahoma are
partially adjacent.
Oklahoma and Texas, or the U.S. and Canada, are doubly adjacent?
Oklahoma and New Mexico are minutely adjacent? Colorado and Arizona
are infinitesimally adjacent?
What about Louisiana and Texas?
Anyway, "partially adjacent" strikes me as an idea we can do without.
The Four Corners Monument marks the quadripoint in the Southwestern
United States where the states of Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, and
Utah meet. It is the only point in the United States shared by four
states, leading to the area being named the Four Corners region.
There is a spot south of Kirkenes in northern Norway where Norway,
Finland and Russia coincide. Standing here, one could be
simultaneously in three time zones.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muotkavaara
Peter.
It could be worse;

DNA: Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC%2B03:00#/media/File:Map_of_Russia_-
_Time_Zones_(2018).svg


I feel sure Mark Brader will give us the definitive maximal time
differential spot; (possibly somewhere in the pacific? but unlikely to be
on land) though I do recall "That Nice Mr Palin (TM)" having to wait for
a 4 hour differential between Nepal? and China.

Oh dear. I do feel a bit of rec.puzzles deja-vu coming on.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Lewis
2020-01-13 17:48:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
You said what I would say.
Colorado and Wyoming are adjacent. Colorado and Oklahoma are partially
adjacent.
Anyway, "partially adjacent" strikes me as an idea we can do without.
Seems entirely understandable to me.
--
When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-14 15:37:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
You said what I would say.
Colorado and Wyoming are adjacent. Colorado and Oklahoma are partially
adjacent.
Anyway, "partially adjacent" strikes me as an idea we can do without.
Seems entirely understandable to me.
"Understandable" doesn't mean "needed". I didn't find it all that
understandable, either.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Moylan
2020-01-13 14:15:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
Contiguous.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-01-13 15:34:38 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:15:25 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
Contiguous.
Oh! such colo[u]rfull language! A very topical and logical post.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-13 15:45:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
"Adjacent".

In your original sentence, I might not have bothered to mention
adjacency at all. Your point, I take it, was that Kent and Surrey are
different counties, so the reviewer who said the book took place in
Surrey made a mistake. The fact that the counties border on each other
just means that the mistake wasn't as bad as it could have been.
--
Jerry Friedman
Bart Dinnissen
2020-01-13 17:49:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
"Adjacent".
In your original sentence, I might not have bothered to mention
adjacency at all. Your point, I take it, was that Kent and Surrey are
different counties, so the reviewer who said the book took place in
Surrey made a mistake. The fact that the counties border on each other
just means that the mistake wasn't as bad as it could have been.
<smile>
--
Bart Dinnissen
Tony Cooper
2020-01-13 20:21:26 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:45:36 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
"Adjacent".
In your original sentence, I might not have bothered to mention
adjacency at all. Your point, I take it, was that Kent and Surrey are
different counties, so the reviewer who said the book took place in
Surrey made a mistake. The fact that the counties border on each other
just means that the mistake wasn't as bad as it could have been.
I considered it a serious mistake because Kent is mentioned so many
times in the book. Nary a mention of Surrey.

In fact, a key part of the storyline is that the manor house has been
taken over by the Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment, and the poor
owners have been relegated to a wing where they must eat their
kedgeree in quarters where they would not normally dine.

You would notice such a thing if you read a book set in Las Cruces and
a reviewer said it set in El Paso.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-14 15:43:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 08:45:36 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
"Adjacent".
In your original sentence, I might not have bothered to mention
adjacency at all. Your point, I take it, was that Kent and Surrey are
different counties, so the reviewer who said the book took place in
Surrey made a mistake. The fact that the counties border on each other
just means that the mistake wasn't as bad as it could have been.
I considered it a serious mistake because Kent is mentioned so many
times in the book. Nary a mention of Surrey.
OK, but it would have been an even worse mistake if the reviewer had
said West Lothian.

I was guessing why you mentioned adjacency in the first place. And if
there was a reason to mention it, why mention that the adjacency was
only "partial"?
Post by Tony Cooper
In fact, a key part of the storyline is that the manor house has been
taken over by the Queen's Own Royal West Kent Regiment, and the poor
owners have been relegated to a wing where they must eat their
kedgeree in quarters where they would not normally dine.
You would notice such a thing if you read a book set in Las Cruces and
a reviewer said it set in El Paso.
Or Texas. That wouldn't be very impressive. What you noticed was more
like a British reader noticing that a book set in Las Cruces was not set
in Texas--though if the New Mexico State Police were involved in an
important plot point, that would help.
--
Jerry Friedman
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-13 20:05:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
Surrey has a fringe (and Kent is part of it).
--
Sam Plusnet
charles
2020-01-13 20:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
Surrey has a fringe (and Kent is part of it).
The fringe is on top. Kent is to the side.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Janet
2020-01-14 12:35:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent...
Interesting concept.
I didn't know how to express that. The two counties share a common
border in one area, but not in a complete side.
Look at a map and tell me how you would describe that.
Surrey has a fringe (and Kent is part of it).
Surrey's fringe is not on top of Kent.

Janet
Paul Wolff
2020-01-14 13:58:26 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020, at 16:52:04, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 20:45:53 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
My report: The book is by Janet Quin-Harkin writing under the name of
"Rhys Bowen". She was born in Bath (1941...hardly a whipper-snapper)
but now lives in the US. Winner of an Edgar, Mary Higgins Clark, and
Agatha award among others.
No, not a whipper-snapper. She's a little older than I am, but born in
the same city. However, she probably wasn't personally eating kedgeree
during the war.
Post by Tony Cooper
The book was first published in 2017 and is set primarily in Kent
during WWII. One character works at Bletchley Park, but the family
home where the kedgeree is served is in Kent.
The father is the one lamenting that he can have but one kipper due to
rationing, but later a daughter is pleased to find bits of kipper in
her kedgeree.
[...]
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Katy Jennison
Kippers are of course herrings, and during the war one might in
principle catch them off the coast and smoke one's own. If one of the
characters worked at Bletchley Park, though, it's unlikely they were
living on the coast; Bletchley Park is rather a commute from anywhere in
Kent, let alone the Kentish coast.
No, that daughter was "in digs" near Bletchley Park. Much complaining
about her landlady's food and the working conditions for females at
Bletchley Park. She's on the night shift translating German
transmissions (she's proficient in German) and the canteen at Blechley
doesn't serve meals for that shift.
Also much complaining about the women being given low-level work to do
and the men not valuing the input of the female staff. Also,
complaints about the length of time and comfort of train-travel back
to Kent for a visit. From what I've read in other accounts - both in
fiction and non-fiction - the complaints accurately portray the times.
https://tubarksblog.com/2017/07/09/book-review-farleigh-field-novel-worl
d-war-ii/
Speaking of inattention to detail, the book's first line puts the
setting in "Elmsleigh, Kent". "Elmsleigh", is fictional, but Kent is
mentioned several times. Also, characters have neighbors in Sevenoaks
(which is described as walkable distance away from the family home),
and that's in Kent.
The reviewer above says it's set the "Tandridge District of Surrey".
I'm not that keen on UK geography, but think that Kent and Surrey are
partially adjacent but two different counties.
Post by Katy Jennison
But in this sort of novel any
considerations like that are taking such details far too seriously, and
it seems to me more likely that it was simply a mistake.
The Tandridge District (today a local government region served by
Tandridge District Council, but who knows if it was so in the Bletchley
Park times of the book) shares its eastern border with the Surrey/Kent
county border, and the town centre of Sevenoaks is about 5 miles from
the county border and Tandridge District - so walkable for those who
enjoy walking.

And only just over a mile into Kent from Tandridge District is Chartwell
- aptly named for those who care about boundaries. Maybe there is, or
could have been, a Churchillian dimension to the plot involving wartime
code-breaking.

And by the way, near Sevenoaks is How Green. But disappointingly, it
doesn't seem to be a valley - it looks to be little more than a cluster
of buildings by How Green Road.
--
Paul
Tony Cooper
2020-01-14 15:31:46 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 14 Jan 2020 13:58:26 +0000, Paul Wolff
Post by Paul Wolff
The Tandridge District (today a local government region served by
Tandridge District Council, but who knows if it was so in the Bletchley
Park times of the book) shares its eastern border with the Surrey/Kent
county border, and the town centre of Sevenoaks is about 5 miles from
the county border and Tandridge District - so walkable for those who
enjoy walking.
And only just over a mile into Kent from Tandridge District is Chartwell
- aptly named for those who care about boundaries. Maybe there is, or
could have been, a Churchillian dimension to the plot involving wartime
code-breaking.
Churchill and Chartwell are mentioned several times in the book, but
not in any way that is a major plot point.

My point is that one presumes that the reviewer of a book has read the
book. When there are many specific references to where the certain
parts of the book is set, it's a grievous error on the part of the
reviewer to misidentify the setting. The fact that the misidentified
location is close to the actual location is not the point.

The reference to a specific part of Surrey - the Tandridge District -
that is not even mentioned in the actual book, adds to grievousness.

AUErs have objected to kippers in kedgeree as an error, but that could
have been a family choice or based on the availability of haddock.
That seems to me to be a far less objectionable "error" than
misidentifying the location.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-01-12 16:31:42 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 14:02:20 GMT, Tony Cooper
<***@invalid.com> wrote:

[]
Post by Tony Cooper
I did try kippers when I was in England, and that will be my sole
experience with kippers. I was also willing to experiment and tried
lamb kidneys. They got as far as being on my plate, but left the
table still on my plate.
I thought moonshine production required bigger vessels. Still, it's a funny
old language.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-12 19:16:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 10:05:24 +0000 (GMT), charles
Post by charles
Post by Peter Young
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the characters
complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with only one
kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later times
than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
I've not seen it at a hotel breakfast for many years, but at least one
pub where we go for lunch has it i=on the menu. When my wife was alive I
used to make it occasionally for our evening meal, but haven't done so
recently.
Kippers were never part of the recipe, though.
indeed not. Smoked haddock
I can only report what was on the page of the book I've been reading.
I did try kippers when I was in England, and that will be my sole
experience with kippers. I was also willing to experiment and tried
lamb kidneys. They got as far as being on my plate, but left the
table still on my plate.
No doubt a waste of perfectly good lamb kidneys,

Jan
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-01-12 19:32:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 10:05:24 +0000 (GMT), charles
Post by charles
Post by Peter Young
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the characters
complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with only one
kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later times
than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
I've not seen it at a hotel breakfast for many years, but at least one
pub where we go for lunch has it i=on the menu. When my wife was alive I
used to make it occasionally for our evening meal, but haven't done so
recently.
Kippers were never part of the recipe, though.
indeed not. Smoked haddock
I can only report what was on the page of the book I've been reading.
I did try kippers when I was in England, and that will be my sole
experience with kippers. I was also willing to experiment and tried
lamb kidneys. They got as far as being on my plate, but left the
table still on my plate.
No doubt a waste of perfectly good lamb kidneys,
Yes. Shocking. When I arrived in Berkeley in 1967 I was amazed at how
cheap kidneys and liver were.
--
athel
Peter Moylan
2020-01-13 14:29:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
I did try kippers when I was in England, and that will be my sole
experience with kippers. I was also willing to experiment and tried
lamb kidneys. They got as far as being on my plate, but left the
table still on my plate.
I'm not sure whether I've ever eaten sole, but I do have kippered
herrings on toast for lunch now and then.

My kidney experience is largely confined to steak and kidney, whether in
the form of a pie or a stew. I suppose that's beef kidney. A perfectly
acceptable taste provided that one doesn't think about where it came
from. More acceptable, in fact, than things like liver and heart and brains.

Mind you, I do eat sausages, and we all know where those casings come from.

I've never tried Rocky Mountain Oysters, and I have no desire to eat
them. But I gather that they're popular after a bullfight in Spain.
("You see, señor, the bull, he does not always lose".) And I'm told that
there are places where they eat every part of the pig except the squeal.

In Australia it's possible to buy half a sheep, suitably butchered, and
I suppose something similar is sold elsewhere. I've tried that just once,
when I was house-sharing and all three of us had to economise. For the
first few days we ate extremely well, but eventually we had to start in
on the less popular parts of the beast.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-01-13 15:45:05 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:29:23 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
I did try kippers when I was in England, and that will be my sole
experience with kippers. I was also willing to experiment and tried
lamb kidneys. They got as far as being on my plate, but left the
table still on my plate.
I'm not sure whether I've ever eaten sole, but I do have kippered
herrings on toast for lunch now and then.
[]

I've given up resisting:


Ok that's nearly 5 min but all good fun, nevertheless

Ace Rimmer's catchphrase was:
"Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast..."
Post by Peter Moylan
In Australia it's possible to buy half a sheep, suitably butchered,
and I suppose something similar is sold elsewhere. I've tried that
just once, when I was house-sharing and all three of us had to
economise. For the first few days we ate extremely well, but
eventually we had to start in on the less popular parts of the beast.
Not so good (or does it improve with age?)
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Peter Moylan
2020-01-14 02:31:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:29:23 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
In Australia it's possible to buy half a sheep, suitably
butchered, and I suppose something similar is sold elsewhere. I've
tried that just once, when I was house-sharing and all three of us
had to economise. For the first few days we ate extremely well,
but eventually we had to start in on the less popular parts of the
beast.
Not so good (or does it improve with age?)
Now that I think of it, the butcher probably called it lamb rather than
sheep. I rarely bother to make the distinction, except when the animal
is alive.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
b***@shaw.ca
2020-01-14 03:35:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:29:23 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
In Australia it's possible to buy half a sheep, suitably
butchered, and I suppose something similar is sold elsewhere. I've
tried that just once, when I was house-sharing and all three of us
had to economise. For the first few days we ate extremely well,
but eventually we had to start in on the less popular parts of the
beast.
Not so good (or does it improve with age?)
Now that I think of it, the butcher probably called it lamb rather than
sheep. I rarely bother to make the distinction, except when the animal
is alive.
For eating purposes, lamb is tender and tasty. Mutton is considerably
tougher and has too strong a taste for me.

bill
Peter Young
2020-01-14 07:38:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 14:29:23 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
In Australia it's possible to buy half a sheep, suitably
butchered, and I suppose something similar is sold elsewhere. I've
tried that just once, when I was house-sharing and all three of us
had to economise. For the first few days we ate extremely well,
but eventually we had to start in on the less popular parts of the
beast.
Not so good (or does it improve with age?)
Now that I think of it, the butcher probably called it lamb rather than
sheep. I rarely bother to make the distinction, except when the animal
is alive.
For eating purposes, lamb is tender and tasty. Mutton is considerably
tougher and has too strong a taste for me.
Mutton can be tender and delicious when slow-cooked. However it's
difficult to find in this part of the UK. I've only cooked mutton twice in
the last twenty years or so.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
J. J. Lodder
2020-01-13 20:15:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
I did try kippers when I was in England, and that will be my sole
experience with kippers. I was also willing to experiment and tried
lamb kidneys. They got as far as being on my plate, but left the
table still on my plate.
I'm not sure whether I've ever eaten sole, but I do have kippered
herrings on toast for lunch now and then.
My kidney experience is largely confined to steak and kidney, whether in
the form of a pie or a stew. I suppose that's beef kidney. A perfectly
acceptable taste provided that one doesn't think about where it came
from. More acceptable, in fact, than things like liver and heart and brains.
Mind you, I do eat sausages, and we all know where those casings come from.
I've never tried Rocky Mountain Oysters, and I have no desire to eat
them. But I gather that they're popular after a bullfight in Spain.
("You see, señor, the bull, he does not always lose".) And I'm told that
there are places where they eat every part of the pig except the squeal.
In Australia it's possible to buy half a sheep, suitably butchered, and
I suppose something similar is sold elsewhere. I've tried that just once,
when I was house-sharing and all three of us had to economise. For the
first few days we ate extremely well, but eventually we had to start in
on the less popular parts of the beast.
I've seen the same in France, but they called it lamb.
It was pre-packaged for freezing,

Jan
HVS
2020-01-13 14:35:12 UTC
Permalink
On 12 Jan 2020, Tony Cooper wrote

-snip-
Post by Tony Cooper
I did try kippers when I was in England, and that will be my sole
experience with kippers. I was also willing to experiment and
tried lamb kidneys. They got as far as being on my plate, but
left the table still on my plate.
Pity; kidneys are delicious.

My main gripe with most steak-and-kidney pies/puddings is that they
don't put enough kidney in them. (Maybe I should try cheaper ones.)
--
Cheers, Harvey
CanEng (30 yrs) and BrEng (36 yrs),
indiscriminately mixed
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-01-13 16:29:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVS
-snip-
Post by Tony Cooper
I did try kippers when I was in England, and that will be my sole
experience with kippers. I was also willing to experiment and
tried lamb kidneys. They got as far as being on my plate, but
left the table still on my plate.
Pity; kidneys are delicious.
My main gripe with most steak-and-kidney pies/puddings is that they
don't put enough kidney in them. (Maybe I should try cheaper ones.)
Argh! the tubes! the tubes!

stage: 1980's Work's Canteen
script:
"How's your pie, Jeff?"
"Champion!"
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-01-13 22:18:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by HVS
-snip-
Post by Tony Cooper
I did try kippers when I was in England, and that will be my sole
experience with kippers. I was also willing to experiment and
tried lamb kidneys. They got as far as being on my plate, but
left the table still on my plate.
Pity; kidneys are delicious.
My main gripe with most steak-and-kidney pies/puddings is that they
don't put enough kidney in them. (Maybe I should try cheaper ones.)
Argh! the tubes! the tubes!
That's liver
Life? Mind the diodes.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Adam Funk
2020-01-14 14:02:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 10:05:24 +0000 (GMT), charles
Post by charles
Post by Peter Young
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the characters
complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with only one
kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later times
than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
I've not seen it at a hotel breakfast for many years, but at least one
pub where we go for lunch has it i=on the menu. When my wife was alive I
used to make it occasionally for our evening meal, but haven't done so
recently.
Kippers were never part of the recipe, though.
indeed not. Smoked haddock
I thought it could be any kind of smoked fish, but it's probably a
hotly debated topic.
Post by Tony Cooper
I can only report what was on the page of the book I've been reading.
I did try kippers when I was in England, and that will be my sole
experience with kippers. I was also willing to experiment and tried
lamb kidneys. They got as far as being on my plate, but left the
table still on my plate.
I like kippers a lot. I haven't yet met a fish with a strong taste
that I didn't like.
--
...the reason why so many professional artists drink a lot is not
necessarily very much to do with the artistic temperament, etc. It is
simply that they can afford to, because they can normally take a large
part of a day off to deal with the ravages. ---Amis _On Drink_
occam
2020-01-12 09:16:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
I am not sure if people still have it for breakfast, however literature
does not appear to have abandoned the term.

ngram for the period [1950 - 2008]

https://bit.ly/37Z8Llc
Dingbat
2020-01-12 10:04:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
At my parents' country house, the communal cook serves it for breakfast
once or twice a fortnight. I don't know how it got this spelling though;
I'd spell it as kitchadee.
Peter Moylan
2020-01-12 12:05:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes
with only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it
seems to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj
and up to the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books
set in later times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
At my parents' country house, the communal cook serves it for
breakfast once or twice a fortnight. I don't know how it got this
spelling though; I'd spell it as kitchadee.
Oh, so it is still served in 1950s Britain (= 2020 India)? As
regards its pronunciation, I'll hazard a guess it has been
'modified' by the Indian accent. Little bit racist, I know, but true
nevertheless?
Don't you have that back to front? The Indian version would have been
the original, and "kedgeree" an approximation, modified by the British
accent, by English speakers.

A little racist, I know, but the British colonisers never achieved true
fluency in the Indian languages.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Dingbat
2020-01-12 13:23:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Dingbat
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes
with only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it
seems to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj
and up to the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books
set in later times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
At my parents' country house, the communal cook serves it for
breakfast once or twice a fortnight. I don't know how it got this
spelling though; I'd spell it as kitchadee.
Oh, so it is still served in 1950s Britain (= 2020 India)? As
regards its pronunciation, I'll hazard a guess it has been
'modified' by the Indian accent. Little bit racist, I know, but true
nevertheless?
Don't you have that back to front? The Indian version would have been
the original, and "kedgeree" an approximation, modified by the British
accent, by English speakers.
A little racist, I know, but the British colonisers never achieved true
fluency in the Indian languages.
The Hindi version would be the original. There are other Indian versions
which are not original. My spelling of kitchadi is based on the Tamil
pronunciation.
pensive hamster
2020-01-12 19:02:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Dingbat
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes
with only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it
seems to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj
and up to the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books
set in later times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
At my parents' country house, the communal cook serves it for
breakfast once or twice a fortnight. I don't know how it got this
spelling though; I'd spell it as kitchadee.
Oh, so it is still served in 1950s Britain (= 2020 India)? As
regards its pronunciation, I'll hazard a guess it has been
'modified' by the Indian accent. Little bit racist, I know, but true
nevertheless?
Don't you have that back to front? The Indian version would have been
the original, and "kedgeree" an approximation, modified by the British
accent, by English speakers.
A little racist, I know, but the British colonisers never achieved true
fluency in the Indian languages.
The Hindi version would be the original. There are other Indian versions
which are not original. My spelling of kitchadi is based on the Tamil
pronunciation.
Kedgeree is somewhat like a kind of fish biriyani.

Might be a bit middle-class in the UK though, kedgeree is available
at Sainsbury's and Waitrose, but not Tesco.
Dingbat
2020-01-13 16:28:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by pensive hamster
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Dingbat
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes
with only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it
seems to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj
and up to the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books
set in later times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
At my parents' country house, the communal cook serves it for
breakfast once or twice a fortnight. I don't know how it got this
spelling though; I'd spell it as kitchadee.
Oh, so it is still served in 1950s Britain (= 2020 India)? As
regards its pronunciation, I'll hazard a guess it has been
'modified' by the Indian accent. Little bit racist, I know, but true
nevertheless?
Don't you have that back to front? The Indian version would have been
the original, and "kedgeree" an approximation, modified by the British
accent, by English speakers.
A little racist, I know, but the British colonisers never achieved true
fluency in the Indian languages.
The Hindi version would be the original. There are other Indian versions
which are not original. My spelling of kitchadi is based on the Tamil
pronunciation.
Kedgeree is somewhat like a kind of fish biriyani.
That wouldn't be recognized as kichadi in India. The twain
(kichadi and kedgeree) have parted ways.
Post by pensive hamster
Might be a bit middle-class in the UK though, kedgeree is available
at Sainsbury's and Waitrose, but not Tesco.
Madhu
2020-01-13 03:02:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Dingbat
At my parents' country house, the communal cook serves it for
breakfast once or twice a fortnight. I don't know how it got this
spelling though; I'd spell it as kitchadee.
Oh, so it is still served in 1950s Britain (= 2020 India)? As
regards its pronunciation, I'll hazard a guess it has been
'modified' by the Indian accent. Little bit racist, I know, but
true nevertheless?
Don't you have that back to front? The Indian version would have been
the original, and "kedgeree" an approximation, modified by the
British accent, by English speakers.
A little racist, I know, but the British colonisers never achieved
true fluency in the Indian languages.
The Hindi version would be the original. There are other Indian versions
which are not original. My spelling of kitchadi is based on the Tamil
pronunciation.
kitchadi as far as i know (throughout india) is rice and dal cooked
together in the same pot. i saw some recent upscaling of the "humble
kitchadi" in the local food media for the local hotels
Dingbat
2020-01-13 15:47:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madhu
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Dingbat
At my parents' country house, the communal cook serves it for
breakfast once or twice a fortnight. I don't know how it got this
spelling though; I'd spell it as kitchadee.
Oh, so it is still served in 1950s Britain (= 2020 India)? As
regards its pronunciation, I'll hazard a guess it has been
'modified' by the Indian accent. Little bit racist, I know, but
true nevertheless?
Don't you have that back to front? The Indian version would have been
the original, and "kedgeree" an approximation, modified by the
British accent, by English speakers.
A little racist, I know, but the British colonisers never achieved
true fluency in the Indian languages.
The Hindi version would be the original. There are other Indian versions
which are not original. My spelling of kitchadi is based on the Tamil
pronunciation.
kitchadi as far as i know (throughout india) is rice and dal cooked
together in the same pot.
Terminology is different in Tamizhnad. Rice and dhal cooked together
is called pongal. Kitchadi is made from sooji rava (cream of wheat),
like uppuma but tasting different even though the ingredients are
similar. At the snack kiosk nearest my parents' house, the ingredients
are green chillies, onions, tomatoes, curry leaves (called
karuveppilai in Tamizh) and not dhal but kadalai lentil (looking
similar to chick peas but smaller and nearly black in color).
Post by Madhu
i saw some recent upscaling of the "humble
kitchadi" in the local food media for the local hotels
b***@aol.com
2020-01-12 17:34:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
At my parents' country house, the communal cook serves it for breakfast
once or twice a fortnight. I don't know how it got this spelling though
I'd spell it as kitchadee.
Does that imply you flap your r's in the old British way?
charles
2020-01-12 10:04:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
My wife makes it, but not for breakfast - that's cereal & toast.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Sam Plusnet
2020-01-12 19:33:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
My wife makes it, but not for breakfast - that's cereal & toast.
I haven't had it since I left my parent's home WIWAL.
It was never a breakfast dish.
--
Sam Plusnet
Janet
2020-01-12 12:14:12 UTC
Permalink
In article <***@4ax.com>, tonycooper214
@invalid.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
Years ago we sometimes invited all the neighbours to breakfast/brunch,
and kedgeree was always a popular item on the menu. These days I still
cook kedgeree, but for lunch or supper. I make it with smoked haddock,
not kippers.

Janet.
Mack A. Damia
2020-01-12 18:09:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
@invalid.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
Years ago we sometimes invited all the neighbours to breakfast/brunch,
and kedgeree was always a popular item on the menu. These days I still
cook kedgeree, but for lunch or supper. I make it with smoked haddock,
not kippers.
Kedgeree

Preparation time: 20 minutes; Cooking time: 30 minutes: Serves: Eight!

Ingredients:
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
½ pint milk;
1¾ pints water;
4 celery sticks, trimmed and chopped;
2 medium Onions, peeled and chopped;
2 mace blades;
a few black peppercorns;
14oz basmati rice, rinsed;
salt;
1oz butter;
4 tsp curry powder or garam masala;
½ pint double cream;
black pepper;
4 heaped tbsp fresh chopped parsley;
4 eggs, hard boiled, shelled and quartered lengthways.

Put the finnan haddie into a wide shallow pan and pour over the milk
and 8 fl oz of water. Scatter half the celery and onion over the fish,
add the mace and peppercorns and bring slowly to the boil. Take
immediately from the heat, cover and set aside.

Put the rice into a medium saucepan, cover with the remaining cold
water and a good pinch of salt. Bring to the boil then simmer for 10
minutes. Remove from the heat and leave to stand without removing the
lid.

Melt the butter in a large frying pan, add the remaining celery and
Onion and fry over a gentle heat, stirring, for about 5 minutes until
soft but not coloured. Mix in the spice and continue to fry and stir
for a further 2 minutes, until fragrant. Remove from the heat.

Take the fish out and strain the liquid removing the flavourings but
reserving the liquid. Flake the fish into large pieces. Return the
frying pan to a moderate heat, add the rice, then the cream and pepper
to taste. Stir until heated through then add the fish, tossing gently
so that it mixes in but doesn't break up.

Remove from the heat and fork in the parsley and a little of the
reserved liquid to moisten. Season to taste.

Serve in a heated serving dish with the eggs arranged on top.
Peter Young
2020-01-12 19:58:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Janet
@invalid.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
Years ago we sometimes invited all the neighbours to breakfast/brunch,
and kedgeree was always a popular item on the menu. These days I still
cook kedgeree, but for lunch or supper. I make it with smoked haddock,
not kippers.
Kedgeree
Preparation time: 20 minutes; Cooking time: 30 minutes: Serves: Eight!
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
Or any other smoked haddock
Post by charles
½ pint milk;
Not for me
Post by charles
1¾ pints water;
4 celery sticks, trimmed and chopped;
Not for me. They would make it taste odd.
Post by charles
2 medium Onions, peeled and chopped;
2 mace blades;
a few black peppercorns;
14oz basmati rice, rinsed;
salt;
1oz butter;
4 tsp curry powder or garam masala;
½ pint double cream;
Again not for me. That would make it too rich.
Post by charles
black pepper;
4 heaped tbsp fresh chopped parsley;
4 eggs, hard boiled, shelled and quartered lengthways.
Put the finnan haddie into a wide shallow pan and pour over the milk
and 8 fl oz of water. Scatter half the celery and onion over the fish,
add the mace and peppercorns and bring slowly to the boil. Take
immediately from the heat, cover and set aside.
Put the rice into a medium saucepan, cover with the remaining cold
water and a good pinch of salt. Bring to the boil then simmer for 10
minutes. Remove from the heat and leave to stand without removing the
lid.
Melt the butter in a large frying pan, add the remaining celery and
Onion and fry over a gentle heat, stirring, for about 5 minutes until
soft but not coloured. Mix in the spice and continue to fry and stir
for a further 2 minutes, until fragrant. Remove from the heat.
Take the fish out and strain the liquid removing the flavourings but
reserving the liquid. Flake the fish into large pieces. Return the
frying pan to a moderate heat, add the rice, then the cream and pepper
to taste. Stir until heated through then add the fish, tossing gently
so that it mixes in but doesn't break up.
Remove from the heat and fork in the parsley and a little of the
reserved liquid to moisten. Season to taste.
Serve in a heated serving dish with the eggs arranged on top.
I must make it for myself soon, with smaller amounts of ingredients, and
freeze half of it. After an excellent pub lunch today, and a supper of
soup, that recipe has made me feel hungry.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Mack A. Damia
2020-01-12 21:31:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by charles
Post by Janet
@invalid.com says...
Post by Tony Cooper
I'm reading a novel set in WWII years in the UK. One of the
characters complains that, due to rationing, his kedgeree comes with
only one kipper.
I've seen "kedgeree" before, and looked up the contents, but it seems
to be something eaten for breakfast by Englishmen post-Raj and up to
the 1950s. It doesn't seem to be mentioned in books set in later
times than that.
Still a common breakfast dish?
Years ago we sometimes invited all the neighbours to breakfast/brunch,
and kedgeree was always a popular item on the menu. These days I still
cook kedgeree, but for lunch or supper. I make it with smoked haddock,
not kippers.
Kedgeree
Preparation time: 20 minutes; Cooking time: 30 minutes: Serves: Eight!
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
Or any other smoked haddock
Post by charles
½ pint milk;
Not for me
Post by charles
1¾ pints water;
4 celery sticks, trimmed and chopped;
Not for me. They would make it taste odd.
Post by charles
2 medium Onions, peeled and chopped;
2 mace blades;
a few black peppercorns;
14oz basmati rice, rinsed;
salt;
1oz butter;
4 tsp curry powder or garam masala;
½ pint double cream;
Again not for me. That would make it too rich.
Post by charles
black pepper;
4 heaped tbsp fresh chopped parsley;
4 eggs, hard boiled, shelled and quartered lengthways.
Put the finnan haddie into a wide shallow pan and pour over the milk
and 8 fl oz of water. Scatter half the celery and onion over the fish,
add the mace and peppercorns and bring slowly to the boil. Take
immediately from the heat, cover and set aside.
Put the rice into a medium saucepan, cover with the remaining cold
water and a good pinch of salt. Bring to the boil then simmer for 10
minutes. Remove from the heat and leave to stand without removing the
lid.
Melt the butter in a large frying pan, add the remaining celery and
Onion and fry over a gentle heat, stirring, for about 5 minutes until
soft but not coloured. Mix in the spice and continue to fry and stir
for a further 2 minutes, until fragrant. Remove from the heat.
Take the fish out and strain the liquid removing the flavourings but
reserving the liquid. Flake the fish into large pieces. Return the
frying pan to a moderate heat, add the rice, then the cream and pepper
to taste. Stir until heated through then add the fish, tossing gently
so that it mixes in but doesn't break up.
Remove from the heat and fork in the parsley and a little of the
reserved liquid to moisten. Season to taste.
Serve in a heated serving dish with the eggs arranged on top.
I must make it for myself soon, with smaller amounts of ingredients, and
freeze half of it. After an excellent pub lunch today, and a supper of
soup, that recipe has made me feel hungry.
So you will omit the ingredients that you say, "Not for me?" Sounds
as if the recipe would be altered quite a bit.

I have never had kedgeree. I heard a lot about it twenty years ago in
the brekkie group from which this recipe comes. Unfortunately, my
system doesn't handle smoked meats and fish too well. I can stand
bacon in moderation. Maybe some of the other stuff, too.
Katy Jennison
2020-01-12 22:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by Peter Young
Post by charles
Kedgeree
Preparation time: 20 minutes; Cooking time: 30 minutes: Serves: Eight!
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
Or any other smoked haddock
Post by charles
½ pint milk;
Not for me
Post by charles
1¾ pints water;
4 celery sticks, trimmed and chopped;
Not for me. They would make it taste odd.
Post by charles
2 medium Onions, peeled and chopped;
2 mace blades;
a few black peppercorns;
14oz basmati rice, rinsed;
salt;
1oz butter;
4 tsp curry powder or garam masala;
½ pint double cream;
Again not for me. That would make it too rich.
Post by charles
black pepper;
4 heaped tbsp fresh chopped parsley;
4 eggs, hard boiled, shelled and quartered lengthways.
Put the finnan haddie into a wide shallow pan and pour over the milk
and 8 fl oz of water. Scatter half the celery and onion over the fish,
add the mace and peppercorns and bring slowly to the boil. Take
immediately from the heat, cover and set aside.
Put the rice into a medium saucepan, cover with the remaining cold
water and a good pinch of salt. Bring to the boil then simmer for 10
minutes. Remove from the heat and leave to stand without removing the
lid.
Melt the butter in a large frying pan, add the remaining celery and
Onion and fry over a gentle heat, stirring, for about 5 minutes until
soft but not coloured. Mix in the spice and continue to fry and stir
for a further 2 minutes, until fragrant. Remove from the heat.
Take the fish out and strain the liquid removing the flavourings but
reserving the liquid. Flake the fish into large pieces. Return the
frying pan to a moderate heat, add the rice, then the cream and pepper
to taste. Stir until heated through then add the fish, tossing gently
so that it mixes in but doesn't break up.
Remove from the heat and fork in the parsley and a little of the
reserved liquid to moisten. Season to taste.
Serve in a heated serving dish with the eggs arranged on top.
I must make it for myself soon, with smaller amounts of ingredients, and
freeze half of it. After an excellent pub lunch today, and a supper of
soup, that recipe has made me feel hungry.
So you will omit the ingredients that you say, "Not for me?" Sounds
as if the recipe would be altered quite a bit.
I have never had kedgeree. I heard a lot about it twenty years ago in
the brekkie group from which this recipe comes. Unfortunately, my
system doesn't handle smoked meats and fish too well. I can stand
bacon in moderation. Maybe some of the other stuff, too.
I'm with Peter - I wouldn't put celery in kedgeree either. Cream,
possibly. For me, the essentials are rice, smoked haddock, hard-boiled
egg and black pepper. And butter.
--
Katy Jennison
Mack A. Damia
2020-01-12 23:23:10 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 22:30:47 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by Peter Young
Post by charles
Kedgeree
Preparation time: 20 minutes; Cooking time: 30 minutes: Serves: Eight!
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
Or any other smoked haddock
Post by charles
½ pint milk;
Not for me
Post by charles
1¾ pints water;
4 celery sticks, trimmed and chopped;
Not for me. They would make it taste odd.
Post by charles
2 medium Onions, peeled and chopped;
2 mace blades;
a few black peppercorns;
14oz basmati rice, rinsed;
salt;
1oz butter;
4 tsp curry powder or garam masala;
½ pint double cream;
Again not for me. That would make it too rich.
Post by charles
black pepper;
4 heaped tbsp fresh chopped parsley;
4 eggs, hard boiled, shelled and quartered lengthways.
Put the finnan haddie into a wide shallow pan and pour over the milk
and 8 fl oz of water. Scatter half the celery and onion over the fish,
add the mace and peppercorns and bring slowly to the boil. Take
immediately from the heat, cover and set aside.
Put the rice into a medium saucepan, cover with the remaining cold
water and a good pinch of salt. Bring to the boil then simmer for 10
minutes. Remove from the heat and leave to stand without removing the
lid.
Melt the butter in a large frying pan, add the remaining celery and
Onion and fry over a gentle heat, stirring, for about 5 minutes until
soft but not coloured. Mix in the spice and continue to fry and stir
for a further 2 minutes, until fragrant. Remove from the heat.
Take the fish out and strain the liquid removing the flavourings but
reserving the liquid. Flake the fish into large pieces. Return the
frying pan to a moderate heat, add the rice, then the cream and pepper
to taste. Stir until heated through then add the fish, tossing gently
so that it mixes in but doesn't break up.
Remove from the heat and fork in the parsley and a little of the
reserved liquid to moisten. Season to taste.
Serve in a heated serving dish with the eggs arranged on top.
I must make it for myself soon, with smaller amounts of ingredients, and
freeze half of it. After an excellent pub lunch today, and a supper of
soup, that recipe has made me feel hungry.
So you will omit the ingredients that you say, "Not for me?" Sounds
as if the recipe would be altered quite a bit.
I have never had kedgeree. I heard a lot about it twenty years ago in
the brekkie group from which this recipe comes. Unfortunately, my
system doesn't handle smoked meats and fish too well. I can stand
bacon in moderation. Maybe some of the other stuff, too.
I'm with Peter - I wouldn't put celery in kedgeree either. Cream,
possibly. For me, the essentials are rice, smoked haddock, hard-boiled
egg and black pepper. And butter.
I looked at photos; I know the ingredients, and I don't think I would
like it. Not overly fond of rice or smoked fish, and hard boiled eggs
are for picnics.

Never been too crazy about spicy food, either, especially curries.

Meat and potatoes. Just had lamb chops for lunch.
musika
2020-01-12 23:29:34 UTC
Permalink
So you will omit the ingredients that you say, "Not for me?"  Sounds
as if the recipe would be altered quite a bit.
I have never had kedgeree.  I heard a lot about it twenty years ago in
the brekkie group from which this recipe comes.  Unfortunately, my
system doesn't handle smoked meats and fish too well.  I can stand
bacon in moderation.  Maybe some of the other stuff, too.
I'm with Peter - I wouldn't put celery in kedgeree either.  Cream,
possibly.  For me, the essentials are rice, smoked haddock, hard-boiled
egg and black pepper.  And butter.
American recipes always seem to have extra ingredients that I wouldn't
use. I would omit the cream but add a little of the poaching milk to get
the right consistency.
--
Ray
UK
Jerry Friedman
2020-01-13 03:13:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by musika
So you will omit the ingredients that you say, "Not for me?"  Sounds
as if the recipe would be altered quite a bit.
I have never had kedgeree.  I heard a lot about it twenty years ago in
the brekkie group from which this recipe comes.  Unfortunately, my
system doesn't handle smoked meats and fish too well.  I can stand
bacon in moderation.  Maybe some of the other stuff, too.
I'm with Peter - I wouldn't put celery in kedgeree either.  Cream,
possibly.  For me, the essentials are rice, smoked haddock,
hard-boiled egg and black pepper.  And butter.
American recipes always seem to have extra ingredients that I wouldn't
use. I would omit the cream but add a little of the poaching milk to get
the right consistency.
"Fillet" instead of "filet", "double cream", and "lengthways" suggest
that it's a British recipe.
--
Jerry Friedman
Mack A. Damia
2020-01-13 03:55:51 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 20:13:57 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by musika
So you will omit the ingredients that you say, "Not for me?"  Sounds
as if the recipe would be altered quite a bit.
I have never had kedgeree.  I heard a lot about it twenty years ago in
the brekkie group from which this recipe comes.  Unfortunately, my
system doesn't handle smoked meats and fish too well.  I can stand
bacon in moderation.  Maybe some of the other stuff, too.
I'm with Peter - I wouldn't put celery in kedgeree either.  Cream,
possibly.  For me, the essentials are rice, smoked haddock,
hard-boiled egg and black pepper.  And butter.
American recipes always seem to have extra ingredients that I wouldn't
use. I would omit the cream but add a little of the poaching milk to get
the right consistency.
"Fillet" instead of "filet", "double cream", and "lengthways" suggest
that it's a British recipe.
That was Mike King's recipe. Nice chap. I met him when I visited the
UK in December, 1999. We had several parties including a brekkie meet
in Stony Stratford near Milton Keynes. Mike and I took the train into
London, too, and toured the Tower of London.

I believe he was a chef.
Lewis
2020-01-13 07:02:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by musika
So you will omit the ingredients that you say, "Not for me?"  Sounds
as if the recipe would be altered quite a bit.
I have never had kedgeree.  I heard a lot about it twenty years ago in
the brekkie group from which this recipe comes.  Unfortunately, my
system doesn't handle smoked meats and fish too well.  I can stand
bacon in moderation.  Maybe some of the other stuff, too.
I'm with Peter - I wouldn't put celery in kedgeree either.  Cream,
possibly.  For me, the essentials are rice, smoked haddock, hard-boiled
egg and black pepper.  And butter.
American recipes always seem to have extra ingredients that I wouldn't
use. I would omit the cream but add a little of the poaching milk to get
the right consistency.
Milk is not a substitute for cream; certainly not for double cream.

(Also, double cream would be peculiar in an American recipe, which would
say "heavy cream" or "heavy whipping cream")
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
Snowball: Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Brain? Brain: There's
a 99.7% probability that I am, Snowball!
Peter Young
2020-01-13 07:29:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by Peter Young
Post by charles
Kedgeree
Preparation time: 20 minutes; Cooking time: 30 minutes: Serves: Eight!
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
Or any other smoked haddock
Post by charles
½ pint milk;
Not for me
Post by charles
1¾ pints water;
4 celery sticks, trimmed and chopped;
Not for me. They would make it taste odd.
Post by charles
2 medium Onions, peeled and chopped;
2 mace blades;
a few black peppercorns;
14oz basmati rice, rinsed;
salt;
1oz butter;
4 tsp curry powder or garam masala;
½ pint double cream;
Again not for me. That would make it too rich.
Post by charles
black pepper;
4 heaped tbsp fresh chopped parsley;
4 eggs, hard boiled, shelled and quartered lengthways.
Put the finnan haddie into a wide shallow pan and pour over the milk
and 8 fl oz of water. Scatter half the celery and onion over the fish,
add the mace and peppercorns and bring slowly to the boil. Take
immediately from the heat, cover and set aside.
Put the rice into a medium saucepan, cover with the remaining cold
water and a good pinch of salt. Bring to the boil then simmer for 10
minutes. Remove from the heat and leave to stand without removing the
lid.
Melt the butter in a large frying pan, add the remaining celery and
Onion and fry over a gentle heat, stirring, for about 5 minutes until
soft but not coloured. Mix in the spice and continue to fry and stir
for a further 2 minutes, until fragrant. Remove from the heat.
Take the fish out and strain the liquid removing the flavourings but
reserving the liquid. Flake the fish into large pieces. Return the
frying pan to a moderate heat, add the rice, then the cream and pepper
to taste. Stir until heated through then add the fish, tossing gently
so that it mixes in but doesn't break up.
Remove from the heat and fork in the parsley and a little of the
reserved liquid to moisten. Season to taste.
Serve in a heated serving dish with the eggs arranged on top.
I must make it for myself soon, with smaller amounts of ingredients, and
freeze half of it. After an excellent pub lunch today, and a supper of
soup, that recipe has made me feel hungry.
So you will omit the ingredients that you say, "Not for me?" Sounds
as if the recipe would be altered quite a bit.
I have never had kedgeree. I heard a lot about it twenty years ago in
the brekkie group from which this recipe comes. Unfortunately, my
system doesn't handle smoked meats and fish too well. I can stand
bacon in moderation. Maybe some of the other stuff, too.
I'm with Peter - I wouldn't put celery in kedgeree either. Cream,
possibly. For me, the essentials are rice, smoked haddock, hard-boiled
egg and black pepper. And butter.
No curry powder?

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Katy Jennison
2020-01-13 14:03:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Katy Jennison
I'm with Peter - I wouldn't put celery in kedgeree either. Cream,
possibly. For me, the essentials are rice, smoked haddock, hard-boiled
egg and black pepper. And butter.
No curry powder?
Not necessarily; the black pepper does it for me. But I admit that
curry powder is canonical.
--
Katy Jennison
HVS
2020-01-12 23:14:11 UTC
Permalink
-snip -
Post by Peter Young
Post by Mack A. Damia
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
Or any other smoked haddock
When at a young age I first heard of finnan haddie, I assumed it was
"fin and haddie" (pronounced "fin 'n' haddie"), and had no idea what
that combination might have been.

I don't know when I realised I'd misinterpreted what I'd heard, but I
was definitely an adult by then.

Anyone else, or just me?

Cheers, Harvey
Mack A. Damia
2020-01-12 23:26:22 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 12 Jan 2020 23:14:11 +0000, HVS
Post by HVS
-snip -
Post by Peter Young
Post by Mack A. Damia
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
Or any other smoked haddock
When at a young age I first heard of finnan haddie, I assumed it was
"fin and haddie" (pronounced "fin 'n' haddie"), and had no idea what
that combination might have been.
I don't know when I realised I'd misinterpreted what I'd heard, but I
was definitely an adult by then.
Anyone else, or just me?
I would never have known how to spell it, and I think I looked it up
the very first time. Sounded like "Fin and Haddy".
RH Draney
2020-01-12 23:28:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVS
-snip -
Post by Peter Young
Post by Mack A. Damia
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
Or any other smoked haddock
When at a young age I first heard of finnan haddie, I assumed it was
"fin and haddie" (pronounced "fin 'n' haddie"), and had no idea what
that combination might have been.
I don't know when I realised I'd misinterpreted what I'd heard, but I
was definitely an adult by then.
Anyone else, or just me?
I think that reading was implied in a song...possibly "The Codfish
Ball", sung by Shirley Temple....r
Mack A. Damia
2020-01-12 23:33:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by RH Draney
Post by HVS
-snip -
Post by Peter Young
Post by Mack A. Damia
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
Or any other smoked haddock
When at a young age I first heard of finnan haddie, I assumed it was
"fin and haddie" (pronounced "fin 'n' haddie"), and had no idea what
that combination might have been.
I don't know when I realised I'd misinterpreted what I'd heard, but I
was definitely an adult by then.
Anyone else, or just me?
I think that reading was implied in a song...possibly "The Codfish
Ball", sung by Shirley Temple....r
And Buddy Ebsen looks downright creepy dancing with her.

DOMish.
Mack A. Damia
2020-01-12 23:44:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by RH Draney
Post by HVS
-snip -
Post by Peter Young
Post by Mack A. Damia
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
Or any other smoked haddock
When at a young age I first heard of finnan haddie, I assumed it was
"fin and haddie" (pronounced "fin 'n' haddie"), and had no idea what
that combination might have been.
I don't know when I realised I'd misinterpreted what I'd heard, but I
was definitely an adult by then.
Anyone else, or just me?
I think that reading was implied in a song...possibly "The Codfish
Ball", sung by Shirley Temple....r
And noted by Graham Greene:

"In Captain January she wore trousers with the mature suggestiveness
of a [Marlene] Dietrich: her neat and well-developed rump twisted in
the tap-dance: her eyes had a sidelong searching coquetry."

https://thecharnelhouse.org/2014/02/25/graham-greenes-infamous-review-of-wee-willie-winkie-1937-starring-shirley-temple/
RH Draney
2020-01-13 08:50:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by RH Draney
I think that reading was implied in a song...possibly "The Codfish
Ball", sung by Shirley Temple....r
"In Captain January she wore trousers with the mature suggestiveness
of a [Marlene] Dietrich: her neat and well-developed rump twisted in
the tap-dance: her eyes had a sidelong searching coquetry."
https://thecharnelhouse.org/2014/02/25/graham-greenes-infamous-review-of-wee-willie-winkie-1937-starring-shirley-temple/
That little delinquent!



....r
Paul Wolff
2020-01-13 10:23:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by RH Draney
Post by HVS
-snip -
Post by Peter Young
Post by Mack A. Damia
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
Or any other smoked haddock
When at a young age I first heard of finnan haddie, I assumed it was
"fin and haddie" (pronounced "fin 'n' haddie"), and had no idea what
that combination might have been.
I don't know when I realised I'd misinterpreted what I'd heard, but I
was definitely an adult by then.
Anyone else, or just me?
I don't remember 'haddie', just finnan haddock. Or maybe I heard
'haddie' and translated it before filing.
Post by RH Draney
I think that reading was implied in a song...possibly "The Codfish
Ball", sung by Shirley Temple....r
Anything to do with the poem whose name was called Haddocks' Eyes? Which
happens to rhyme with 'kipper ties', so there's a connection back to
kippers. I wonder what Americans called kipper ties - those excessively
broad and colourful neckties which had a short fashion 50 years ago,
presumably so-called for their kipper-like shape.
--
Paul
Mack A. Damia
2020-01-13 15:29:22 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 10:23:19 +0000, Paul Wolff
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by RH Draney
Post by HVS
-snip -
Post by Peter Young
Post by Mack A. Damia
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
Or any other smoked haddock
When at a young age I first heard of finnan haddie, I assumed it was
"fin and haddie" (pronounced "fin 'n' haddie"), and had no idea what
that combination might have been.
I don't know when I realised I'd misinterpreted what I'd heard, but I
was definitely an adult by then.
Anyone else, or just me?
I don't remember 'haddie', just finnan haddock. Or maybe I heard
'haddie' and translated it before filing.
Post by RH Draney
I think that reading was implied in a song...possibly "The Codfish
Ball", sung by Shirley Temple....r
Anything to do with the poem whose name was called Haddocks' Eyes? Which
happens to rhyme with 'kipper ties', so there's a connection back to
kippers. I wonder what Americans called kipper ties - those excessively
broad and colourful neckties which had a short fashion 50 years ago,
presumably so-called for their kipper-like shape.

Peter T. Daniels
2020-01-13 14:03:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVS
-snip -
Post by Peter Young
Post by Mack A. Damia
2lb finnan haddie fillet;
Or any other smoked haddock
When at a young age I first heard of finnan haddie, I assumed it was
"fin and haddie" (pronounced "fin 'n' haddie"), and had no idea what
that combination might have been.
I don't know when I realised I'd misinterpreted what I'd heard, but I
was definitely an adult by then.
Anyone else, or just me?
I'm pretty sure this thread is the first time I've heard of it outside
the lyrics of Cole Porter's "My Heart Belongs to Daddy."

Whereas "kedgeree" is entirely new; I thought of biryani when its Indian
origin was mentioned, but the restaurants around here don't put fish, or
anything similar, in their biryani.
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