Discussion:
Out with the vowels
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occam
2021-04-27 11:36:08 UTC
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Permalink
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'. (Abrdn
is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being considered an
honorific consonant?)


<https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/26/standard-life-aberdeen-to-change-name-to-abrdn>

The problem with eliminating vowels is that some smart arse inevitably
comes along and fills the gaps with other vowels. In this case, Abrdn
could be misrepresented as 'A burden', as the article points out.
Chrysi Cat
2021-04-27 13:09:37 UTC
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Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'. (Abrdn
is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being considered an
honorific consonant?)
<https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/26/standard-life-aberdeen-to-change-name-to-abrdn>
The problem with eliminating vowels is that some smart arse inevitably
comes along and fills the gaps with other vowels. In this case, Abrdn
could be misrepresented as 'A burden', as the article points out.
The secondary issue with re-branding with a "vowel-less" handle is that
while they're right that vowel-free (except possibly for lead vowels)
English IS well-known on the Net and especially the Web, the CAUSE of
that is the notorious practice of "disemvowelling". Not exactly
something that you want to have people associate your company with, in
at least MY mind.

I'm sure they're intending to conjure images of txtspk instead, but some
of that still has vowels, or drops consonants somwhere in the mix
instead. And at any rate, "actual" txtspk is becoming less common with
the ability of modern phones to handle the input of English complete
with vowels, and the ability of messaging providers to pass on those
messages with no extra cost for a larger bit count.

Besides, hasn't the tendency lately, in a greater number of cases been
to add interior and end vowels to languages--like Hebrew--that HAVEN'T
had them prior to the contemporary area?
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-27 14:48:32 UTC
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Post by Chrysi Cat
Besides, hasn't the tendency lately, in a greater number of cases been
to add interior and end vowels to languages--like Hebrew--that HAVEN'T
had them prior to the contemporary area?
Please tell me what you're thinking of?

Recent longitudinal research in Israel on both Hebrew- and Arabic-
literacy acquisition has shown that when the optional vowel "points"
are included in a text, it helps the child's fluency until about Grade 2 or 3,
but thereafter people read _unvocalized_ text more successfully than
vocalized text. (Measuring speed, fluency, comprehension.)
Dingbat
2021-04-28 05:57:46 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Chrysi Cat
Besides, hasn't the tendency lately, in a greater number of cases been
to add interior and end vowels to languages--like Hebrew--that HAVEN'T
had them prior to the contemporary area?
Please tell me what you're thinking of?
Recent longitudinal research in Israel on both Hebrew- and Arabic-
literacy acquisition has shown that when the optional vowel "points"
are included in a text, it helps the child's fluency until about Grade 2 or 3,
but thereafter people read _unvocalized_ text more successfully than
vocalized text. (Measuring speed, fluency, comprehension.)
I gather that at young ages, schoolchildren in Taiwan learned Chinese in the bopomofo phonetic alphabet too but they had no use for it once they get older. In more recent times, I gather, bopomofo has found use by adults entering Chinese into a computer. But bopomofo is not the only way to type Chinese, so it was not clear to me which adults use bopomofo and why they find it useful or necessary.
Pamela
2021-04-28 12:52:45 UTC
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Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
(Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
considered an honorific consonant?)
<https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/26/standard-
life-aberdeen-to-change-name-to-abrdn>
The problem with eliminating vowels is that some smart arse
inevitably comes along and fills the gaps with other vowels. In
this case, Abrdn could be misrepresented as 'A burden', as the
article points out.
The secondary issue with re-branding with a "vowel-less" handle is
that while they're right that vowel-free (except possibly for lead
vowels) English IS well-known on the Net and especially the Web,
the CAUSE of that is the notorious practice of "disemvowelling".
Not exactly something that you want to have people associate your
company with, in at least MY mind.
I'm sure they're intending to conjure images of txtspk instead,
but some of that still has vowels, or drops consonants somwhere in
the mix instead. And at any rate, "actual" txtspk is becoming less
common with the ability of modern phones to handle the input of
English complete with vowels, and the ability of messaging
providers to pass on those messages with no extra cost for a
larger bit count.
Besides, hasn't the tendency lately, in a greater number of cases
been to add interior and end vowels to languages--like
Hebrew--that HAVEN'T had them prior to the contemporary area?
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.

In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.

.
Peter Moylan
2021-04-29 01:49:06 UTC
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Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
(Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.

It amazed me that nobody on the city council complained about being
ripped off. In my opinion, that advertising agency should have been
charged with fraud.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Mark Brader
2021-04-29 03:06:49 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
It amazed me that nobody on the city council complained about being
ripped off. In my opinion, that advertising agency should have been
charged with fraud.
That reminds me of the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation, a
provincial government body. About 15 years ago they decided they
didn't have a good enough reputation for honesty and trustworthiness
-- I have no idea why, as I hadn't heard any such thing about them
-- and paid for a highly priced consultant to tell them what to do
about it.

The consultant said -- I am not making this up -- to change their short
form and the lettering on their logo from OLGC to OLG.

A year or two later, it came out that their arrangement for running
provincial lotteries had been so lax that store clerks selling tickets
had been regularly stealing and cashing winning ones.

I dunno; it seems to me that preventing that sort of thing might've
done a better job for their reputation.
--
Mark Brader | Moreover, as experts, we... deserve certain courtesies,
Toronto | like high rates of pay, and blind trust in our competence
***@vex.net | on the part of John Q. Public. --Geoffrey K. Pullum
occam
2021-04-29 06:19:28 UTC
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Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
 (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
 considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with 'Multiplicity'
painted on them, with each letter a different colour. The kindergarten
crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed to convey the sense of a
cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The impression it gives is of a
city with no sense of colour or artistic sense.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-29 06:34:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
 (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
 considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with 'Multiplicity'
painted on them, with each letter a different colour. The kindergarten
crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed to convey the sense of a
cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The impression it gives is of a
city with no sense of colour or artistic sense.
Loading Image...


or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke

Our buses also have a new look:
Loading Image...
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Pamela
2021-04-29 10:26:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as
'Abrdn'.  (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A'
apparently being  considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back
at more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in
a different colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old
coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-
hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Years ago it was done by a man with a brush and tin of paint. I
suspect some of those colour schemes came about simply because they're
possible at all, irrespective of aesthetics.

The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago products were
boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!). Then came computer aided
manufacturing with things like CAD-CAM and digital machine tools
resulting in curvy products even where curves are a hindrance.
Lewis
2021-04-29 23:12:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as
'Abrdn'.  (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A'
apparently being  considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back
at more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in
a different colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old
coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-
hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Years ago it was done by a man with a brush and tin of paint.
No. Vehicles are not painted by a man with a tin of paint, it is s
complicated process of multiple layers that protect the vehicle's body,
seal the paint, resist chipping, and provide a low-friction surface to
minimize the amount of crap that sticks to the vehicle. A bad paint job
from some git with a brush and a tin of paint will cause the body to
wear, rust, or be damaged more easily.
Post by Pamela
suspect some of those colour schemes came about simply because they're
possible at all, irrespective of aesthetics.
Yeah, who would want a bus to be painted in bright obvious colors making
ti easier to see and increasing the safety of pedestrians and other
vehicles. Madness!
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago products were
boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40, and those straight
edges on all that Victorian furniture. Utter nonsense. Objects are made
with curves because people prefer them. Occasionally there is a fashion
tend for a bunch of boxes with straight edges, but it never lasts. You
know what's uncomfortable to hold? A cube. What is comfortable to hold,
a ball. One fits the human hand much better than the other.
Post by Pamela
Then came computer aided manufacturing with things like CAD-CAM and
digital machine tools resulting in curvy products even where curves
are a hindrance.
You simply have no idea what you are talking about.
--
NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR ABOUT MY SCIATICA Bart chalkboard Ep. AABF09
Dingbat
2021-04-29 23:45:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as
'Abrdn'. (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A'
apparently being considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back
at more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in
a different colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old
coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-
hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Years ago it was done by a man with a brush and tin of paint.
No. Vehicles are not painted by a man with a tin of paint, it is s
complicated process of multiple layers that protect the vehicle's body,
seal the paint, resist chipping, and provide a low-friction surface to
minimize the amount of crap that sticks to the vehicle. A bad paint job
from some git with a brush and a tin of paint will cause the body to
wear, rust, or be damaged more easily.
Post by Pamela
suspect some of those colour schemes came about simply because they're
possible at all, irrespective of aesthetics.
Yeah, who would want a bus to be painted in bright obvious colors making
ti easier to see and increasing the safety of pedestrians and other
vehicles. Madness!
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago products were
boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40,
No straight edges on Volvos of that vintage
https://www.volvocars.com/intl/v/discover/heritage-car-models
I liked the 70s Volvo's straight edges. I thought a subsequent curvy Volvo
after the Ford takeover looked ghastly unlike the antique curvy ones.

The Rolls remains boxy; the Bentley has gone curvy. They used to look
substantially the same when they were both made in Crewe. Which
looks better? Well, the former commands a higher price if that
means anything.
Post by Lewis
and those straight
edges on all that Victorian furniture. Utter nonsense. Objects are made
with curves because people prefer them. Occasionally there is a fashion
tend for a bunch of boxes with straight edges, but it never lasts. You
know what's uncomfortable to hold? A cube. What is comfortable to hold,
a ball. One fits the human hand much better than the other.
Post by Pamela
Then came computer aided manufacturing with things like CAD-CAM and
digital machine tools resulting in curvy products even where curves
are a hindrance.
You simply have no idea what you are talking about.
--
NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR ABOUT MY SCIATICA Bart chalkboard Ep. AABF09
Tony Cooper
2021-04-30 03:08:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 16:45:36 -0700 (PDT), Dingbat
Post by Dingbat
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as
'Abrdn'. (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A'
apparently being considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back
at more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in
a different colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old
coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-
hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Years ago it was done by a man with a brush and tin of paint.
No. Vehicles are not painted by a man with a tin of paint, it is s
complicated process of multiple layers that protect the vehicle's body,
seal the paint, resist chipping, and provide a low-friction surface to
minimize the amount of crap that sticks to the vehicle. A bad paint job
from some git with a brush and a tin of paint will cause the body to
wear, rust, or be damaged more easily.
Post by Pamela
suspect some of those colour schemes came about simply because they're
possible at all, irrespective of aesthetics.
Yeah, who would want a bus to be painted in bright obvious colors making
ti easier to see and increasing the safety of pedestrians and other
vehicles. Madness!
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago products were
boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40,
No straight edges on Volvos of that vintage
https://www.volvocars.com/intl/v/discover/heritage-car-models
I liked the 70s Volvo's straight edges. I thought a subsequent curvy Volvo
after the Ford takeover looked ghastly unlike the antique curvy ones.
I owned this model for a while:

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1959-1966-volvo-pv544

I was damned near killed in it. I was trying to teach my wife how to
use a manual transmission and she stalled it pulling out on a busy
highway. We are only alive today because the driver of the large
truck coming at us was able to brake and swerve off the road in time.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Mark Brader
2021-04-30 04:56:13 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1959-1966-volvo-pv544
I was damned near killed in it.
Good for us that you weren't. Now, I'm curious about this part:

| The big news came in 1962 with the PV544 Sport's "B18" engine, a
| five-main-bearing, twin-carbureted 1,778cc unit with a cast-iron
| block and head and an incredible reputation for durability.
| This four-cylinder made 90hp at 5,000 RPM

I would've guessed that the main bearings would be at each end of the
crankshaft. Where did they put another three?
--
Mark Brader "Three minutes' thought would suffice to
Toronto find this out; but thought is irksome and
***@vex.net three minutes is a long time." --A.E. Housman
Tony Cooper
2021-04-30 05:43:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Tony Cooper
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1959-1966-volvo-pv544
I was damned near killed in it.
| The big news came in 1962 with the PV544 Sport's "B18" engine, a
| five-main-bearing, twin-carbureted 1,778cc unit with a cast-iron
| block and head and an incredible reputation for durability.
| This four-cylinder made 90hp at 5,000 RPM
I would've guessed that the main bearings would be at each end of the
crankshaft. Where did they put another three?
Sorry, but what goes on "under the hood" - the greasy details, in this
case - is not my thing.

I am sure my Volvo had an engine, and I saw it when I checked the dip
stick and added oil, but I have to check the Owner's Manual to even
know how to find the hood latch to see the engine.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Pamela
2021-05-01 12:32:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Dingbat
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago products
were boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40,
No straight edges on Volvos of that vintage
https://www.volvocars.com/intl/v/discover/heritage-car-models I
liked the 70s Volvo's straight edges. I thought a subsequent curvy
Volvo after the Ford takeover looked ghastly unlike the antique
curvy ones.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1959-1966-volvo-pv544
That is gorgeous !!!
Ken Blake
2021-05-01 15:43:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Dingbat
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago products
were boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40,
No straight edges on Volvos of that vintage
https://www.volvocars.com/intl/v/discover/heritage-car-models I
liked the 70s Volvo's straight edges. I thought a subsequent curvy
Volvo after the Ford takeover looked ghastly unlike the antique
curvy ones.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1959-1966-volvo-pv544
That is gorgeous !!!
I owned one too--a 1964 model that I bought around 1969. I thought it
was a decent car for the price I paid, but it was anything but gorgeous.
--
Ken
Pamela
2021-05-01 16:25:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Pamela
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Dingbat
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago
products were boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40,
No straight edges on Volvos of that vintage
https://www.volvocars.com/intl/v/discover/heritage-car-models I
liked the 70s Volvo's straight edges. I thought a subsequent
curvy Volvo after the Ford takeover looked ghastly unlike the
antique curvy ones.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1959-1966-volvo-pv544
That is gorgeous !!!
I owned one too--a 1964 model that I bought around 1969. I thought
it was a decent car for the price I paid, but it was anything but
gorgeous.
I'm sure it needed a lot of attention by the garage and didn't drive
well by today's standards but it looks gorgeous.

It's from the same era as late Morris Minors in the UK but that Volvo
looks better.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Minor#/media/File:1970_Morris_Minor_
1000_Saloon_Almond_green.jpg
Ken Blake
2021-05-01 16:32:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Pamela
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Dingbat
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago
products were boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40,
No straight edges on Volvos of that vintage
https://www.volvocars.com/intl/v/discover/heritage-car-models I
liked the 70s Volvo's straight edges. I thought a subsequent
curvy Volvo after the Ford takeover looked ghastly unlike the
antique curvy ones.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1959-1966-volvo-pv544
That is gorgeous !!!
I owned one too--a 1964 model that I bought around 1969. I thought
it was a decent car for the price I paid, but it was anything but
gorgeous.
I'm sure it needed a lot of attention by the garage
No, not particularly.
Post by Pamela
and didn't drive
well by today's standards
Maybe not by today's standards, but I don't remember any particular
problms with it.
Post by Pamela
but it looks gorgeous.
Not to me. De gustibus...
--
Ken
Pamela
2021-05-01 19:45:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Pamela
but it looks gorgeous.
Not to me. De gustibus...
More fool you for buying a car you didn't like the look of. Surely you're
not going to blame someone else for your folly?
Ken Blake
2021-05-01 21:48:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Pamela
but it looks gorgeous.
Not to me. De gustibus...
More fool you for buying a car you didn't like the look of. Surely you're
not going to blame someone else for your folly?
I've never chosen a car because of its looks. I choose based on price,
reliability, safety, comfort, and ease of driving
--
Ken
Tony Cooper
2021-05-01 17:13:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 01 May 2021 17:25:36 +0100, Pamela
Post by Pamela
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Pamela
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Dingbat
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago
products were boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40,
No straight edges on Volvos of that vintage
https://www.volvocars.com/intl/v/discover/heritage-car-models I
liked the 70s Volvo's straight edges. I thought a subsequent
curvy Volvo after the Ford takeover looked ghastly unlike the
antique curvy ones.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1959-1966-volvo-pv544
That is gorgeous !!!
I owned one too--a 1964 model that I bought around 1969. I thought
it was a decent car for the price I paid, but it was anything but
gorgeous.
I'm sure it needed a lot of attention by the garage and didn't drive
well by today's standards but it looks gorgeous.
It's from the same era as late Morris Minors in the UK but that Volvo
looks better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Minor#/media/File:1970_Morris_Minor_
1000_Saloon_Almond_green.jpg
My PV544 Volvo was untouched by a mechanic for the two years that I
owned it. Its best feature was that it started immediately on the
coldest days in Evanston IL.

When I was in college, I drove a 1948 Austin A40.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1948-austin-a-40/ It was a
left-hand drive model, so it must have been an export originally.

The vehicle I owned that required the most visits to a mechanic was a
1969 VW Camper that was the same as this one except for the color:
https://www.leftcoastclassics.com/1969-volkswagen-westfalia-camper/
It required a monthly engine tune-up. Freshly tuned, it sputtered
less, but still sputtered.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Pamela
2021-05-01 19:42:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 01 May 2021 17:25:36 +0100, Pamela
Post by Pamela
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Pamela
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Dingbat
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago
products were boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40,
No straight edges on Volvos of that vintage
https://www.volvocars.com/intl/v/discover/heritage-car-models I
liked the 70s Volvo's straight edges. I thought a subsequent
curvy Volvo after the Ford takeover looked ghastly unlike the
antique curvy ones.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1959-1966-volvo-pv544
That is gorgeous !!!
I owned one too--a 1964 model that I bought around 1969. I thought
it was a decent car for the price I paid, but it was anything but
gorgeous.
I'm sure it needed a lot of attention by the garage and didn't drive
well by today's standards but it looks gorgeous.
It's from the same era as late Morris Minors in the UK but that
Volvo looks better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Minor#/media/File:1970
_Morris_Minor_ 1000_Saloon_Almond_green.jpg
My PV544 Volvo was untouched by a mechanic for the two years that I
owned it. Its best feature was that it started immediately on the
coldest days in Evanston IL.
When I was in college, I drove a 1948 Austin A40.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1948-austin-a-40/ It was a
left-hand drive model, so it must have been an export originally.
The vehicle I owned that required the most visits to a mechanic was
https://www.leftcoastclassics.com/1969-volkswagen-westfalia-camper/
It required a monthly engine tune-up. Freshly tuned, it sputtered
less, but still sputtered.
A friend had a car which he says he never serviced from the day he
bought it new to when it had 120,000 miles on the clock. Meanwhile
mere mortal get the oil changed as advised.

I seem to recall some of those early cars needed an oil change every
1,000 miles to say nothing of asdditional adjustments to bits of the
engine which drifted out of alignment.
Tony Cooper
2021-05-01 20:29:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 01 May 2021 20:42:58 +0100, Pamela
Post by Pamela
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 01 May 2021 17:25:36 +0100, Pamela
Post by Pamela
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Pamela
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Dingbat
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago
products were boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40,
No straight edges on Volvos of that vintage
https://www.volvocars.com/intl/v/discover/heritage-car-models I
liked the 70s Volvo's straight edges. I thought a subsequent
curvy Volvo after the Ford takeover looked ghastly unlike the
antique curvy ones.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1959-1966-volvo-pv544
That is gorgeous !!!
I owned one too--a 1964 model that I bought around 1969. I thought
it was a decent car for the price I paid, but it was anything but
gorgeous.
I'm sure it needed a lot of attention by the garage and didn't drive
well by today's standards but it looks gorgeous.
It's from the same era as late Morris Minors in the UK but that
Volvo looks better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Minor#/media/File:1970
_Morris_Minor_ 1000_Saloon_Almond_green.jpg
My PV544 Volvo was untouched by a mechanic for the two years that I
owned it. Its best feature was that it started immediately on the
coldest days in Evanston IL.
When I was in college, I drove a 1948 Austin A40.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1948-austin-a-40/ It was a
left-hand drive model, so it must have been an export originally.
The vehicle I owned that required the most visits to a mechanic was
https://www.leftcoastclassics.com/1969-volkswagen-westfalia-camper/
It required a monthly engine tune-up. Freshly tuned, it sputtered
less, but still sputtered.
A friend had a car which he says he never serviced from the day he
bought it new to when it had 120,000 miles on the clock. Meanwhile
mere mortal get the oil changed as advised.
I don't consider having the oil changed to be visiting a mechanic. Any
gas station, in those days, had a lift or a pit and a pump jockey
could change oil.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Ken Blake
2021-05-01 21:50:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 01 May 2021 20:42:58 +0100, Pamela
Post by Pamela
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sat, 01 May 2021 17:25:36 +0100, Pamela
Post by Pamela
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Pamela
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Dingbat
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago
products were boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40,
No straight edges on Volvos of that vintage
https://www.volvocars.com/intl/v/discover/heritage-car-models I
liked the 70s Volvo's straight edges. I thought a subsequent
curvy Volvo after the Ford takeover looked ghastly unlike the
antique curvy ones.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/article/1959-1966-volvo-pv544
That is gorgeous !!!
I owned one too--a 1964 model that I bought around 1969. I thought
it was a decent car for the price I paid, but it was anything but
gorgeous.
I'm sure it needed a lot of attention by the garage and didn't drive
well by today's standards but it looks gorgeous.
It's from the same era as late Morris Minors in the UK but that
Volvo looks better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Minor#/media/File:1970
_Morris_Minor_ 1000_Saloon_Almond_green.jpg
My PV544 Volvo was untouched by a mechanic for the two years that I
owned it. Its best feature was that it started immediately on the
coldest days in Evanston IL.
When I was in college, I drove a 1948 Austin A40.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1948-austin-a-40/ It was a
left-hand drive model, so it must have been an export originally.
The vehicle I owned that required the most visits to a mechanic was
https://www.leftcoastclassics.com/1969-volkswagen-westfalia-camper/
It required a monthly engine tune-up. Freshly tuned, it sputtered
less, but still sputtered.
A friend had a car which he says he never serviced from the day he
bought it new to when it had 120,000 miles on the clock. Meanwhile
mere mortal get the oil changed as advised.
I don't consider having the oil changed to be visiting a mechanic. Any
gas station, in those days, had a lift or a pit and a pump jockey
could change oil.
Not to mention that some people do it themselves, even if they are not
mechanically-oriented.
--
Ken
Tony Cooper
2021-04-30 02:59:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 23:12:58 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as
'Abrdn'.  (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A'
apparently being  considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back
at more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in
a different colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old
coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-
hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Years ago it was done by a man with a brush and tin of paint.
No. Vehicles are not painted by a man with a tin of paint, it is s
complicated process of multiple layers that protect the vehicle's body,
seal the paint, resist chipping, and provide a low-friction surface to
minimize the amount of crap that sticks to the vehicle. A bad paint job
from some git with a brush and a tin of paint will cause the body to
wear, rust, or be damaged more easily.
Most are decals - called "vehicle wraps" - printed on huge sheets and
applied over the factory paint.
http://elitesignsandgraphics.com/products/vehicle-graphics?gclid=Cj0KCQjwsqmEBhDiARIsANV8H3YdQcFPnMPSwh7d5I02YmrNJS0IoNawIuJO3mJkL6Oy_WgRVJ582V4aAq8gEALw_wcB
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
charles
2021-04-30 07:31:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as
'Abrdn'. (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A'
apparently being considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back
at more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in
a different colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old
coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-
hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Years ago it was done by a man with a brush and tin of paint.
No. Vehicles are not painted by a man with a tin of paint,
in the 1960s a friend did paint his van from a can of "brushing enamel".
Looked good.
Post by Lewis
it is s
complicated process of multiple layers that protect the vehicle's body,
seal the paint, resist chipping, and provide a low-friction surface to
minimize the amount of crap that sticks to the vehicle. A bad paint job
from some git with a brush and a tin of paint will cause the body to
wear, rust, or be damaged more easily.
Post by Pamela
suspect some of those colour schemes came about simply because they're
possible at all, irrespective of aesthetics.
Yeah, who would want a bus to be painted in bright obvious colors making
ti easier to see and increasing the safety of pedestrians and other
vehicles. Madness!
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago products were
boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40, and those straight
edges on all that Victorian furniture. Utter nonsense. Objects are made
with curves because people prefer them. Occasionally there is a fashion
tend for a bunch of boxes with straight edges, but it never lasts. You
know what's uncomfortable to hold? A cube. What is comfortable to hold,
a ball. One fits the human hand much better than the other.
Post by Pamela
Then came computer aided manufacturing with things like CAD-CAM and
digital machine tools resulting in curvy products even where curves
are a hindrance.
You simply have no idea what you are talking about.
--
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-30 07:54:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as
'Abrdn'. (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A'
apparently being considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back
at more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in
a different colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old
coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-
hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Years ago it was done by a man with a brush and tin of paint.
No. Vehicles are not painted by a man with a tin of paint,
Pamela didn't say they are. She said that years ago they were.
Post by charles
in the 1960s a friend did paint his van from a can of "brushing enamel".
Looked good.
Post by Lewis
it is s
complicated process of multiple layers that protect the vehicle's body,
seal the paint, resist chipping, and provide a low-friction surface to
minimize the amount of crap that sticks to the vehicle. A bad paint job
from some git with a brush and a tin of paint will cause the body to
wear, rust, or be damaged more easily.
Post by Pamela
suspect some of those colour schemes came about simply because they're
possible at all, irrespective of aesthetics.
Yeah, who would want a bus to be painted in bright obvious colors making
ti easier to see and increasing the safety of pedestrians and other
vehicles. Madness!
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago products were
boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40, and those straight
edges on all that Victorian furniture. Utter nonsense. Objects are made
with curves because people prefer them. Occasionally there is a fashion
tend for a bunch of boxes with straight edges, but it never lasts. You
know what's uncomfortable to hold? A cube. What is comfortable to hold,
a ball. One fits the human hand much better than the other.
Post by Pamela
Then came computer aided manufacturing with things like CAD-CAM and
digital machine tools resulting in curvy products even where curves
are a hindrance.
You simply have no idea what you are talking about.
--
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Peter Moylan
2021-04-30 10:42:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Years ago it was done by a man with a brush and tin of paint.
No. Vehicles are not painted by a man with a tin of paint,
in the 1960s a friend did paint his van from a can of "brushing
enamel". Looked good.
A friend of mine once used house paint on his car. The problem was that
he did this just before summer arrived. In the heat of summer it
produced an interesting ripple effect.

It was an old car, mind you. Some time later he went to England for a
while. He disposed of the car by calling up a scrap metal dealer, and
telling them that if they drove him to the airport then they could keep
the car.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Pamela
2021-05-01 12:47:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Pamela
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as
'Abrdn'.  (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A'
apparently being  considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back
at more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter
in a different colour. It looks like something that a
six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society.
The impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-
hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Years ago it was done by a man with a brush and tin of paint.
No. Vehicles are not painted by a man with a tin of paint, it is s
complicated process of multiple layers that protect the vehicle's
body, seal the paint, resist chipping, and provide a low-friction
surface to minimize the amount of crap that sticks to the vehicle. A
bad paint job from some git with a brush and a tin of paint will
cause the body to wear, rust, or be damaged more easily.
Post by Pamela
suspect some of those colour schemes came about simply because
they're possible at all, irrespective of aesthetics.
Yeah, who would want a bus to be painted in bright obvious colors
making ti easier to see and increasing the safety of pedestrians and
other vehicles. Madness!
Post by Pamela
The same goes for curvy gadgets these days. Decades ago products
were boxy and straight lines ruled (ahem!).
Right, all those angular cars in the 3-s and 40, and those straight
edges on all that Victorian furniture. Utter nonsense. Objects are
made with curves because people prefer them. Occasionally there is a
fashion tend for a bunch of boxes with straight edges, but it never
lasts. You know what's uncomfortable to hold? A cube. What is
comfortable to hold, a ball. One fits the human hand much better
than the other.
Post by Pamela
Then came computer aided manufacturing with things like CAD-CAM and
digital machine tools resulting in curvy products even where curves
are a hindrance.
You simply have no idea what you are talking about.
Leweis, I was writing of a time before that. I suggest you broaden
your outlook to more than what you can remember unaided. At the time I
refer to vehicles were spray painted during manufacture and owners
would arrange their own hand painted signs. Multi-layer special-effect
paints and such esoterica were not in use then and probably hadn't
been invented at all. Of course applying multiple layers for
different purposes is another thing entirely and is a long standing
practice.

Planning for low friction surfaces, which you also describe on
vehicles, were then not even found in science fiction. Any
aerodynamic vehicle styling at that time was primarily a styling tool
for marketing purposes, whilst slab-like vehicle design acted almost
as an air brake.

You sound unfamiliar with CAD-CAM and may never have commissioned a
design. It shows. Google can bring you up to speed but I sense you
will be too stubborn to address your prejudices.

Didn't you make a fool of yourself in earlier postings to me? Perhaps
to do with Thunberg.
Quinn C
2021-05-01 14:25:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
* Pamela:

[...]
Post by Pamela
Didn't you make a fool of yourself in earlier postings to me? Perhaps
to do with Thunberg.
No, that was "Pamela".
--
... it might be nice to see ourselves reflected in TV shows and
Pride season campaigns, but the cis white men who invented the
gender binary still own the damn mirror.
-- Delilah Friedler at slate.com
Lewis
2021-05-01 15:00:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Leweis, I was writing of a time before that.
You made a nonsesen statement about someone painting a car with a "tin
of paint" which , I suppose, may have been a thing when cars were made
of wood a century r more ago.
Post by Pamela
Multi-layer special-effect paints and such esoterica were not in use
then and probably hadn't been invented at all.
Which as not the topic at hand, nor anything i said anything about.
Post by Pamela
You sound unfamiliar with CAD-CAM and may never have commissioned a
This has nothing to do with anything, and is nothing but you desperately
deflecting from your idiotic comment.
Post by Pamela
Didn't you make a fool of yourself in earlier postings to me? Perhaps
to do with Thunberg.
You are a misogynist piece of conservitard shit and are a complete and
total fool who spews nothing of value.
--
This is now, and now, and now. Live it, feel it, cling to it. I want to become
acutely aware of all I’ve taken for granted.” ― Sylvia Plath
Graham
2021-04-29 15:03:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Our buses and the light rapid transit railcars are often covered with
ads, i.e, one huge ad will cover the entire side, windows and all.
Ken Blake
2021-04-29 16:20:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
 (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
 considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with 'Multiplicity'
painted on them, with each letter a different colour. The kindergarten
crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed to convey the sense of a
cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The impression it gives is of a
city with no sense of colour or artistic sense.
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Ugh! It looks like a graffiti "artist" went wild with his spray paint cans.
--
Ken
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-29 16:28:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
 (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
 considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with 'Multiplicity'
painted on them, with each letter a different colour. The kindergarten
crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed to convey the sense of a
cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The impression it gives is of a
city with no sense of colour or artistic sense.
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Ugh! It looks like a graffiti "artist" went wild with his spray paint cans.
You and I are fuddy-duddies from the mid-20th century.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
occam
2021-04-29 18:40:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
 (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
 considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with 'Multiplicity'
painted on them, with each letter a different colour. The kindergarten
crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed to convey the sense of a
cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The impression it gives is of a
city with no sense of colour or artistic sense.
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Just out of interest, can you get into the Marseille bus via the front
door (green circle) or do you have to get in through the central ('no
entry' red circled) door? That's the new Covid rule here, since the
driver was 'cordoned off' from the rest of us virus vectors.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-30 07:35:47 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
 (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
 considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with 'Multiplicity'
painted on them, with each letter a different colour. The kindergarten
crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed to convey the sense of a
cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The impression it gives is of a
city with no sense of colour or artistic sense.
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Just out of interest, can you get into the Marseille bus via the front
door (green circle) or do you have to get in through the central ('no
entry' red circled) door?
It's been a while since I've taken a bus, but I think you still must
not go in through the red door ("no means no").
Post by occam
That's the new Covid rule here, since the
driver was 'cordoned off' from the rest of us virus vectors.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
occam
2021-04-30 09:03:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
 (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
 considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with 'Multiplicity'
painted on them, with each letter a different colour. The kindergarten
crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed to convey the sense of a
cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The impression it gives is of a
city with no sense of colour or artistic sense.
https://busimg.cardekho.com/n/649x396/volvo-receives-five-hybrid-bus-order-from-luxembourg-58.jpg
or tinyurl.com/3659b5ke
http://www.thibxl.be/pages/marseille/bus74/photos/2.jpg
Just out of interest, can you get into the Marseille bus via the front
door (green circle) or do you have to get in through the central ('no
entry' red circled) door?
It's been a while since I've taken a bus, but I think you still must not
go in through the red door ("no means no").
Given that we no longer have to pay (or show proof of payment) of a bus
fare in Luxembourg, this requirement has been relaxed. In fact, the
green doors nearest to the driver do NOT open at a bus stop.
Post by occam
 That's the new Covid rule here, since the
driver was 'cordoned off' from the rest of us virus vectors.
Peter Moylan
2021-04-30 10:48:49 UTC
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Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Just out of interest, can you get into the Marseille bus via the
front door (green circle) or do you have to get in through the
central ('no entry' red circled) door?
It's been a while since I've taken a bus, but I think you still
must not go in through the red door ("no means no").
Given that we no longer have to pay (or show proof of payment) of a
bus fare in Luxembourg, this requirement has been relaxed. In fact,
the green doors nearest to the driver do NOT open at a bus stop.
For public transport here (trains, trams, buses, ferries) we have a
plastic card that we have to hold near the sensor on entry and exit.
Buses have more than one sensor, so it doesn't much matter which door we
use - except at busy times when people are both entering and exiting.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Lewis
2021-04-30 21:14:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by occam
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by occam
Just out of interest, can you get into the Marseille bus via the
front door (green circle) or do you have to get in through the
central ('no entry' red circled) door?
It's been a while since I've taken a bus, but I think you still
must not go in through the red door ("no means no").
Given that we no longer have to pay (or show proof of payment) of a
bus fare in Luxembourg, this requirement has been relaxed. In fact,
the green doors nearest to the driver do NOT open at a bus stop.
For public transport here (trains, trams, buses, ferries) we have a
plastic card that we have to hold near the sensor on entry and exit.
Buses have more than one sensor, so it doesn't much matter which door we
use - except at busy times when people are both entering and exiting.
The tricky bit, at least in Europe, was remembering that you had to tap
when you got on and when you got off, except for the times you didn't,
but which times those were was not always clear.

Then again, every aspect of public transportation in the EU was orders
of magnitude less shitty than most of the US. Even in the UK, which was
still part of the EU at the time.

Next time we will try to do some of the countries on the southern side
(Spain and Italy in particular) and possibly Germany as well, though
that depends on if our German-American friends will be there.

When next time will be is an open question, but I am hoping for 2023.
--
I'd rather have my mind opened by wonder than closed by belief
Lewis
2021-04-29 23:03:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
 (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
 considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with 'Multiplicity'
painted on them, with each letter a different colour. The kindergarten
crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed to convey the sense of a
cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The impression it gives is of a
city with no sense of colour or artistic sense.
Actually, you're wrong. Multi-color logos convey, for most people, a
sense of fun and playfulness. People do studies on these things, you
know. The only people who think designing a logo is easy are people who
have never designed a logo.

The Newcastle NSW logo is quite good, and anyone who says it looks like
a kindergartner drew it has never met a kindergartner.
--
"Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so, Commander Brain from Outer Space! But do we have time to
grease the rockets?"
Peter Moylan
2021-04-30 06:25:17 UTC
Reply
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Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter
in a different colour. It looks like something that a
six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
Actually, you're wrong. Multi-color logos convey, for most people, a
sense of fun and playfulness. People do studies on these things, you
know. The only people who think designing a logo is easy are people
who have never designed a logo.
The Newcastle NSW logo is quite good, and anyone who says it looks
like a kindergartner drew it has never met a kindergartner.
Apparently I'm behind the times. The logo I mentioned above has been
scrapped, it seems. The one you probably saw, with a stylised N, was
introduced in 2019, and I failed to notice. That would have been when
the city council changed its name from "Newcastle City Council" to "City
of Newcastle", another expensive change.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Lewis
2021-04-30 18:06:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter
in a different colour. It looks like something that a
six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
Actually, you're wrong. Multi-color logos convey, for most people, a
sense of fun and playfulness. People do studies on these things, you
know. The only people who think designing a logo is easy are people
who have never designed a logo.
The Newcastle NSW logo is quite good, and anyone who says it looks
like a kindergartner drew it has never met a kindergartner.
Apparently I'm behind the times. The logo I mentioned above has been
scrapped, it seems. The one you probably saw, with a stylised N, was
introduced in 2019,
The one I was thinking of is a multi-colored logo where each letter is
in a different color and various versions of that color are used within
each letter.
--
A closed mouth gathers no feet.
Peter Moylan
2021-05-01 02:44:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter
in a different colour. It looks like something that a
six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
Actually, you're wrong. Multi-color logos convey, for most people, a
sense of fun and playfulness. People do studies on these things, you
know. The only people who think designing a logo is easy are people
who have never designed a logo.
The Newcastle NSW logo is quite good, and anyone who says it looks
like a kindergartner drew it has never met a kindergartner.
Apparently I'm behind the times. The logo I mentioned above has been
scrapped, it seems. The one you probably saw, with a stylised N, was
introduced in 2019,
The one I was thinking of is a multi-colored logo where each letter is
in a different color and various versions of that color are used within
each letter.
Thanks, that's the one I first mentioned. I finally found it on the web at

http://brandingsource.blogspot.com/2011/06/new-logo-newcastle-australia.html

Until now I had never noticed that each letter was made of multiple
shades. I was used to seeing it as I drove past, where such details
don't show up.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-30 19:19:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter
in a different colour. It looks like something that a
six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
Actually, you're wrong. Multi-color logos convey, for most people, a
sense of fun and playfulness. People do studies on these things, you
know. The only people who think designing a logo is easy are people
who have never designed a logo.
The Newcastle NSW logo is quite good, and anyone who says it looks
like a kindergartner drew it has never met a kindergartner.
Apparently I'm behind the times. The logo I mentioned above has been
scrapped, it seems. The one you probably saw, with a stylised N, was
introduced in 2019, and I failed to notice. That would have been when
the city council changed its name from "Newcastle City Council" to "City
of Newcastle", another expensive change.
The one that looks like an aleph on drugs is even worse than the multicolored
one, to my taste.
--
Jerry Friedman
Pamela
2021-05-01 13:14:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter
in a different colour. It looks like something that a
six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is
supposed to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual
society. The impression it gives is of a city with no sense of
colour or artistic sense.
Actually, you're wrong. Multi-color logos convey, for most
people, a sense of fun and playfulness. People do studies on
these things, you know. The only people who think designing a
logo is easy are people who have never designed a logo.
The Newcastle NSW logo is quite good, and anyone who says it
looks like a kindergartner drew it has never met a kindergartner.
Apparently I'm behind the times. The logo I mentioned above has
been scrapped, it seems. The one you probably saw, with a stylised
N, was introduced in 2019, and I failed to notice. That would have
been when the city council changed its name from "Newcastle City
Council" to "City of Newcastle", another expensive change.
The one that looks like an aleph on drugs is even worse than the
multicolored one, to my taste.
One looks like someone has used every colour in the paintbox to make a
tartan. It provides good security though, as it's hard to replicate
without using a photograph but that's a strange objective.

I guess "logo churn" is an inevitable consequence of pop-art's short
lived appeal.

By contrast, one of the best recognised and most effective logos in
the world is by Mercedes in black and white and can be drawn by hand.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-05-01 13:19:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter
in a different colour. It looks like something that a
six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is
supposed to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual
society. The impression it gives is of a city with no sense of
colour or artistic sense.
Actually, you're wrong. Multi-color logos convey, for most
people, a sense of fun and playfulness. People do studies on
these things, you know. The only people who think designing a
logo is easy are people who have never designed a logo.
The Newcastle NSW logo is quite good, and anyone who says it
looks like a kindergartner drew it has never met a kindergartner.
Apparently I'm behind the times. The logo I mentioned above has
been scrapped, it seems. The one you probably saw, with a stylised
N, was introduced in 2019, and I failed to notice. That would have
been when the city council changed its name from "Newcastle City
Council" to "City of Newcastle", another expensive change.
The one that looks like an aleph on drugs is even worse than the
multicolored one, to my taste.
One looks like someone has used every colour in the paintbox to make a
tartan. It provides good security though, as it's hard to replicate
without using a photograph but that's a strange objective.
I guess "logo churn" is an inevitable consequence of pop-art's short
lived appeal.
By contrast, one of the best recognised and most effective logos in
the world is by Mercedes in black and white and can be drawn by hand.
Audi, too.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Mark Brader
2021-05-01 20:57:27 UTC
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Post by Pamela
By contrast, one of the best recognised and most effective logos in
the world is by Mercedes in black and white and can be drawn by hand.
I was interested to learn the origins of that logo recently. According
to "Empires of the Sky" by Alexander Rose, Mercedes-Benz acquired the
logo in a merger, but it was invented by Gottlieb Daimler after he went
into business with Wilhelm Maybach in 1880 to make engines.

And the three-pointed star indicated that they intended to make engines
suitable not only for road vehicles but also for boats and for aircraft.
Quite a forward-looking view, considering that dirigibles were only just
being invented at the time and airplanes even farther behind.
--
Mark Brader | this take
Toronto | "If is shall really to
***@vex.net | flying I never it."
| -- Piglet ("Winnie-the-Pooh", A.A. Milne)

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-05-01 20:39:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 30 Apr 2021 12:19:11 -0700 (PDT)
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter
in a different colour. It looks like something that a
six-year-old coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
Actually, you're wrong. Multi-color logos convey, for most people, a
sense of fun and playfulness. People do studies on these things, you
know. The only people who think designing a logo is easy are people
who have never designed a logo.
The Newcastle NSW logo is quite good, and anyone who says it looks
like a kindergartner drew it has never met a kindergartner.
Apparently I'm behind the times. The logo I mentioned above has been
scrapped, it seems. The one you probably saw, with a stylised N, was
introduced in 2019, and I failed to notice. That would have been when
the city council changed its name from "Newcastle City Council" to "City
of Newcastle", another expensive change.
The one that looks like an aleph on drugs is even worse than the multicolored
one, to my taste.
A total classic ****-up was the London Olympis 2012 fellatio logo.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Pamela
2021-05-01 13:02:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as
'Abrdn'.  (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A'
apparently being  considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back
at more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in
a different colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old
coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
Actually, you're wrong. Multi-color logos convey, for most people, a
sense of fun and playfulness.
What evidence is there that "most" people feel that way?

I suggest such designs appeal to youth and express a self-proclaimed
modernness rather have any genuine appeal to most of the population.
Many are probably vanity projects or even a quick way of earning
money.

The elderly, perhaps making up a silent majority in this, are used to
tolerate the young's experimentation and generally ignore their folly
rather than waste time registering a protest.
Post by Lewis
People do studies on these things, you know. The only people who
think designing a logo is easy are people who have never designed a
logo.
The Newcastle NSW logo is quite good, and anyone who says it looks
like a kindergartner drew it has never met a kindergartner.
The London Olympics logo was one of the most expensive ever and one of
the worst.

https://www.companyfolders.com/blog/branding-blunders-2012-olympics-
logo-controversy
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-05-01 13:16:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Lewis
Post by occam
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as
'Abrdn'.  (Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A'
apparently being  considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back
at more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars
for a new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in
a different colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old
coloured in.
Ditto Luxembourg city. We now have buses and trams with
'Multiplicity' painted on them, with each letter a different
colour. The kindergarten crayon aesthetic of the logo is supposed
to convey the sense of a cosmopolitan and multilingual society. The
impression it gives is of a city with no sense of colour or
artistic sense.
Actually, you're wrong. Multi-color logos convey, for most people, a
sense of fun and playfulness.
What evidence is there that "most" people feel that way?
I suggest such designs appeal to youth and express a self-proclaimed
modernness rather have any genuine appeal to most of the population.
Many are probably vanity projects or even a quick way of earning
money.
The elderly, perhaps making up a silent majority in this, are used to
tolerate the young's experimentation and generally ignore their folly
rather than waste time registering a protest.
Post by Lewis
People do studies on these things, you know. The only people who
think designing a logo is easy are people who have never designed a
logo.
The Newcastle NSW logo is quite good, and anyone who says it looks
like a kindergartner drew it has never met a kindergartner.
The London Olympics logo was one of the most expensive ever and one of
the worst.
https://www.companyfolders.com/blog/branding-blunders-2012-olympics-
logo-controversy
Yes. It's certainly the worst on that page.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-29 06:28:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
(Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
It amazed me that nobody on the city council complained about being
ripped off. In my opinion, that advertising agency should have been
charged with fraud.
Apparently some people like horrible logos. People in our research unit
decided a couple of years ago that the logo was old-fashioned and we
voted to choose a new one. I think my wife and I were the only ones to
vote in favour of keeping the old one. You can see the spindly one that
was chosen here: https://bip.cnrs.fr/.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Graham
2021-04-29 15:06:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
(Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
It amazed me that nobody on the city council complained about being
ripped off. In my opinion, that advertising agency should have been
charged with fraud.
Apparently some people like horrible logos. People in our research unit
decided a couple of years ago that the logo was old-fashioned and we
voted to choose a new one. I think my wife and I were the only ones to
vote in favour of keeping the old one. You can see the spindly one that
was chosen here: https://bip.cnrs.fr/.
Probably at great cost, the local theatre/concert hall complex was
re-named "Arts Commons". Now the library system has adopted "Bibliocommons".
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-29 16:22:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Graham
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
(Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
It amazed me that nobody on the city council complained about being
ripped off. In my opinion, that advertising agency should have been
charged with fraud.
Apparently some people like horrible logos. People in our research unit
decided a couple of years ago that the logo was old-fashioned and we
voted to choose a new one. I think my wife and I were the only ones to
vote in favour of keeping the old one. You can see the spindly one that
was chosen here: https://bip.cnrs.fr/.
Probably at great cost, the local theatre/concert hall complex was
re-named "Arts Commons". Now the library system has adopted
"Bibliocommons".
Our local football stadium, universally known as the Stade Vélodrome,
now sports the name Orange Vélodrome in large letters on the outside,
but I don't know if anyone apart from Orange Télécom call it that.
Apparently they contributed a euro or two to the recent remodelling.
Anyway, I've been wondering if the change in the prominent colour of
the buses from a tasteful blue to a garish orange is related in some
way.

Anyway, dropping the Vélodrome from the name would have made more sense
than dropping the Stade, as it's not much used for racing bicycles but
it's very much a stadium (not that I really know, as the only time I
went inside was for my second Covid-19 vaccination).
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Lewis
2021-04-29 23:19:19 UTC
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I've been wondering if the change in the prominent colour of the buses
from a tasteful blue to a garish orange is related in some way.
Well, blue is just about the least visible color there is, and orange is
one of the most visible colors there is, so perhaps this was doen for
safety considerations.
--
Someone's behind this. Someone wants to see a war. [...] I've got to
remember that. This isn't a war. This is a crime. --Jingo
Lewis
2021-04-29 23:16:51 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
(Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
It amazed me that nobody on the city council complained about being
ripped off. In my opinion, that advertising agency should have been
charged with fraud.
Apparently some people like horrible logos. People in our research unit
decided a couple of years ago that the logo was old-fashioned and we
voted to choose a new one. I think my wife and I were the only ones to
vote in favour of keeping the old one. You can see the spindly one that
was chosen here: https://bip.cnrs.fr/.
I'd say that is a bad logo as it is pretty hard to make out what the
hell it is.

The only bit I like is the "heart beat" curve for the i, but the b and p
are quite poor and they would be a bit better if they did not connect to
the enclosing circle.
--
The cat turned and tried to find a place of safety in the suit's
breastplate. He was beginning to doubt he'd make it through the
knight.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-30 07:43:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
(Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
It amazed me that nobody on the city council complained about being
ripped off. In my opinion, that advertising agency should have been
charged with fraud.
Apparently some people like horrible logos. People in our research unit
decided a couple of years ago that the logo was old-fashioned and we
voted to choose a new one. I think my wife and I were the only ones to
vote in favour of keeping the old one. You can see the spindly one that
was chosen here: https://bip.cnrs.fr/.
I'd say that is a bad logo as it is pretty hard to make out what the
hell it is.
I agree (if that wasn't already evident from my post.)

The dot of the i is a motile bacterium (OK). The rest of the i evokes
an electron paramagnetic resonance (EPR) spectrum (not OK, because EPR
is only marginally relevant to microbiology).
Post by Lewis
The only bit I like is the "heart beat" curve for the i, but the b and p
are quite poor and they would be a bit better if they did not connect to
the enclosing circle.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Lewis
2021-04-30 18:08:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Lewis
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
(Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
It amazed me that nobody on the city council complained about being
ripped off. In my opinion, that advertising agency should have been
charged with fraud.
Apparently some people like horrible logos. People in our research unit
decided a couple of years ago that the logo was old-fashioned and we
voted to choose a new one. I think my wife and I were the only ones to
vote in favour of keeping the old one. You can see the spindly one that
was chosen here: https://bip.cnrs.fr/.
I'd say that is a bad logo as it is pretty hard to make out what the
hell it is.
I agree (if that wasn't already evident from my post.)
The dot of the i is a motile bacterium (OK). The rest of the i evokes
an electron paramagnetic resonance (EPR) spectrum (not OK, because EPR
is only marginally relevant to microbiology).
that's the bit I like, at least in terms of logo.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Lewis
The only bit I like is the "heart beat" curve for the i, but the b and p
are quite poor and they would be a bit better if they did not connect to
the enclosing circle.
--
Bunny 1: Apocalypse now.
Eliot: Josh, would you just give it up? He keeps trying to get us join his film
club, which I told him would never work on a planet with no electricity
or taste.
Bunny 2: Help us stop the…
Bunny 1: Apocalypse now.
Lewis
2021-04-29 22:55:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Pamela
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
(Abrdn is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being
considered an honorific consonant?)
It seems like they've had the management consultants and media
advisors in.
In 10 years time Standard Life Aberdeen will realise it was an
expensive folly to follow a short-lived fashion and revert back at
more cost.
A few years ago Newcastle paid something like a million dollars for a
new logo. The logo is the word NEWCASTLE with each letter in a different
colour. It looks like something that a six-year-old coloured in.
It amazed me that nobody on the city council complained about being
ripped off. In my opinion, that advertising agency should have been
charged with fraud.
The Advertising Agency produced probably a dozen or more logos and the
City Council picked the one they went with. No one commissions someone to
create a single logo and then is bound to accept it and use it.
--
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-27 20:26:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'. (Abrdn
is to be pronounced 'Aberdeen', the 'A' apparently being considered an
honorific consonant?)
<https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/apr/26/standard-life-aberdeen-to-change-name-to-abrdn>
The problem with eliminating vowels is that some smart arse inevitably
comes along and fills the gaps with other vowels. In this case, Abrdn
could be misrepresented as 'A burden', as the article points out.
Ignoring the vowels worked for the Phoenicians, but it's all Greek to me.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Mark Brader
2021-04-27 20:48:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission drivers
in the days when they used to call out the major streets: omit all
consonants before the first vowel, and all vowels after.

(Later they pretty much stopped doing it. Now we have pre-recorded
announcements as well as displays showing the street name.)
--
Mark Brader, Toronto / "There are three types of software documentation:
***@vex.net / tutorial, mnemonic and misleading." --Larry Colen
Peter Moylan
2021-04-28 00:14:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission drivers
in the days when they used to call out the major streets: omit all
consonants before the first vowel, and all vowels after.
(Later they pretty much stopped doing it. Now we have pre-recorded
announcements as well as displays showing the street name.)
The last time I was in Paris, taking a bus from the Gare de Lyon, I was
confident of getting off at the right place because of the overhead
display. Partway through the trip, the driver must have decided that the
stop displays were unnecessary, so he turned them off. By the time I
figured out that we'd overshot, the bus was about to turn around for the
return trip.

My last bus trip was in Brisbane, I think, and it was to a suburb I knew
nothing about, so it was not obvious when to get off. I solved that by
watching our current location on a map on my phone.

It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I don't know what
the current technology is here.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-04-28 10:24:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:14:14 +1100
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission drivers
in the days when they used to call out the major streets: omit all
consonants before the first vowel, and all vowels after.
(Later they pretty much stopped doing it. Now we have pre-recorded
announcements as well as displays showing the street name.)
The last time I was in Paris, taking a bus from the Gare de Lyon, I was
confident of getting off at the right place because of the overhead
display. Partway through the trip, the driver must have decided that the
stop displays were unnecessary, so he turned them off. By the time I
figured out that we'd overshot, the bus was about to turn around for the
return trip.
My last bus trip was in Brisbane, I think, and it was to a suburb I knew
nothing about, so it was not obvious when to get off. I solved that by
watching our current location on a map on my phone.
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I don't know what
the current technology is here.
I think the round wheel has yet to be bettered.
Post by Peter Moylan
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
charles
2021-04-28 10:29:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:14:14 +1100
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission drivers
in the days when they used to call out the major streets: omit all
consonants before the first vowel, and all vowels after.
(Later they pretty much stopped doing it. Now we have pre-recorded
announcements as well as displays showing the street name.)
The last time I was in Paris, taking a bus from the Gare de Lyon, I was
confident of getting off at the right place because of the overhead
display. Partway through the trip, the driver must have decided that the
stop displays were unnecessary, so he turned them off. By the time I
figured out that we'd overshot, the bus was about to turn around for the
return trip.
My last bus trip was in Brisbane, I think, and it was to a suburb I knew
nothing about, so it was not obvious when to get off. I solved that by
watching our current location on a map on my phone.
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I don't know what
the current technology is here.
I think the round wheel has yet to be bettered.
unless you're going up a steep slope, in which case a toothed one coupled
to a toothed track is better
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Post by Peter Moylan
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-28 17:53:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:14:14 +1100
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission drivers
in the days when they used to call out the major streets: omit all
consonants before the first vowel, and all vowels after.
(Later they pretty much stopped doing it. Now we have pre-recorded
announcements as well as displays showing the street name.)
The last time I was in Paris, taking a bus from the Gare de Lyon, I was
confident of getting off at the right place because of the overhead
display. Partway through the trip, the driver must have decided that the
stop displays were unnecessary, so he turned them off. By the time I
figured out that we'd overshot, the bus was about to turn around for the
return trip.
My last bus trip was in Brisbane, I think, and it was to a suburb I knew
nothing about, so it was not obvious when to get off. I solved that by
watching our current location on a map on my phone.
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I don't know what
the current technology is here.
I think the round wheel has yet to be bettered.
Can anyone name the Science Fiction story in which a large heavy object
had to be transported over a long distance, in a place where the ruling
theocracy regarded the circle as holy and thus any use of a circular
device - like a wheel - was anathema?
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-28 17:56:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:14:14 +1100
[Announcing bus stops]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Post by Peter Moylan
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I don't know what
the current technology is here.
I think the round wheel has yet to be bettered.
Can anyone name the Science Fiction story in which a large heavy object
had to be transported over a long distance, in a place where the ruling
theocracy regarded the circle as holy and thus any use of a circular
device - like a wheel - was anathema?
I name it "The Three-Cornered Wheel", by Poul Anderson.
--
Jerry Friedman
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-29 00:42:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:14:14 +1100
[Announcing bus stops]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Post by Peter Moylan
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I don't know what
the current technology is here.
I think the round wheel has yet to be bettered.
Can anyone name the Science Fiction story in which a large heavy object
had to be transported over a long distance, in a place where the ruling
theocracy regarded the circle as holy and thus any use of a circular
device - like a wheel - was anathema?
I name it "The Three-Cornered Wheel", by Poul Anderson.
I thought you were joking, but it seems not. Maybe I came across it
under a different title (or as part of a collection).
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-29 00:46:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:14:14 +1100
[Announcing bus stops]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Post by Peter Moylan
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I don't know what
the current technology is here.
I think the round wheel has yet to be bettered.
Can anyone name the Science Fiction story in which a large heavy object
had to be transported over a long distance, in a place where the ruling
theocracy regarded the circle as holy and thus any use of a circular
device - like a wheel - was anathema?
I name it "The Three-Cornered Wheel", by Poul Anderson.
I thought you were joking, but it seems not.
I, joke about Poul Anderson?</dudgeon>
Post by Sam Plusnet
Maybe I came across it
under a different title (or as part of a collection).
I read it in /The Trouble Twisters/, a collection of stories featuring David
Falkayn.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Moylan
2021-04-29 01:54:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:14:14 +1100 Peter Moylan
[Announcing bus stops]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I
don't know what the current technology is here.
I think the round wheel has yet to be bettered.
Can anyone name the Science Fiction story in which a large
heavy object had to be transported over a long distance, in a
place where the ruling theocracy regarded the circle as holy
and thus any use of a circular device - like a wheel - was
anathema?
I name it "The Three-Cornered Wheel", by Poul Anderson.
I thought you were joking, but it seems not.
I, joke about Poul Anderson?</dudgeon>
Post by Sam Plusnet
Maybe I came across it under a different title (or as part of a
collection).
I read it in /The Trouble Twisters/, a collection of stories
featuring David Falkayn.
I've forgotten the story, but I do have that book, so I've just put it
at the bottom of my "books to re-read" pile.

I do recognise the trick, just from the title. Many people are amazed
when they're told that there are constant-diameter wheels that are not
circles.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-29 06:20:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:14:14 +1100 Peter Moylan
[Announcing bus stops]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I
don't know what the current technology is here.
I think the round wheel has yet to be bettered.
Can anyone name the Science Fiction story in which a large
heavy object had to be transported over a long distance, in a
place where the ruling theocracy regarded the circle as holy
and thus any use of a circular device - like a wheel - was
anathema?
I name it "The Three-Cornered Wheel", by Poul Anderson.
I thought you were joking, but it seems not.
I, joke about Poul Anderson?</dudgeon>
Post by Sam Plusnet
Maybe I came across it under a different title (or as part of a
collection).
I read it in /The Trouble Twisters/, a collection of stories
featuring David Falkayn.
I've forgotten the story, but I do have that book, so I've just put it
at the bottom of my "books to re-read" pile.
I do recognise the trick, just from the title. Many people are amazed
when they're told that there are constant-diameter wheels that are not
circles.
They're more like rollers than wheels, however. They don't like axles
too much, but the ones that are used as drills for making square holes
have axles.

The original British 50p coin had a constant-diameter non-circular
edge. (I don't know about the current 50p coin.)
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-29 23:30:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:14:14 +1100 Peter Moylan
[Announcing bus stops]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I
don't know what the current technology is here.
I think the round wheel has yet to be bettered.
Can anyone name the Science Fiction story in which a large
heavy object had to be transported over a long distance, in a
place where the ruling theocracy regarded the circle as holy
and thus any use of a circular device - like a wheel - was
anathema?
I name it "The Three-Cornered Wheel", by Poul Anderson.
I thought you were joking, but it seems not.
I, joke about Poul Anderson?</dudgeon>
Post by Sam Plusnet
Maybe I came across it under a different title (or as part of a
collection).
I read it in /The Trouble Twisters/, a collection of stories
featuring David Falkayn.
I've forgotten the story, but I do have that book, so I've just put it
at the bottom of my "books to re-read" pile.
I do recognise the trick, just from the title. Many people are amazed
when they're told that there are constant-diameter wheels that are not
circles.
I think he should have built a tracked vehicle and used those 'three
cornered wheels' as the bogies.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Ken Blake
2021-04-29 16:25:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:14:14 +1100
[Announcing bus stops]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Post by Peter Moylan
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I don't know what
the current technology is here.
I think the round wheel has yet to be bettered.
Can anyone name the Science Fiction story in which a large heavy object
had to be transported over a long distance, in a place where the ruling
theocracy regarded the circle as holy and thus any use of a circular
device - like a wheel - was anathema?
I name it "The Three-Cornered Wheel", by Poul Anderson.
I thought you were joking, but it seems not. Maybe I came across it
under a different title (or as part of a collection).
It's possible for something circular to be distorted to make it almost
triangular with curved sides in such a way that all points on the
circumference are equidistant from the opposite point.
--
Ken
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-29 16:30:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:14:14 +1100
[Announcing bus stops]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Post by Peter Moylan
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I don't know what
the current technology is here.
I think the round wheel has yet to be bettered.
Can anyone name the Science Fiction story in which a large heavy object
had to be transported over a long distance, in a place where the ruling
theocracy regarded the circle as holy and thus any use of a circular
device - like a wheel - was anathema?
I name it "The Three-Cornered Wheel", by Poul Anderson.
I thought you were joking, but it seems not. Maybe I came across it
under a different title (or as part of a collection).
It's possible for something circular to be distorted to make it almost
triangular with curved sides in such a way that all points on the
circumference are equidistant from the opposite point.
I think a bit for making a square hole has that shape.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Mack A. Damia
2021-04-29 17:02:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 18:30:26 +0200, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:14:14 +1100
[Announcing bus stops]
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
Post by Peter Moylan
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I don't know what
the current technology is here.
I think the round wheel has yet to be bettered.
Can anyone name the Science Fiction story in which a large heavy object
had to be transported over a long distance, in a place where the ruling
theocracy regarded the circle as holy and thus any use of a circular
device - like a wheel - was anathema?
I name it "The Three-Cornered Wheel", by Poul Anderson.
I thought you were joking, but it seems not. Maybe I came across it
under a different title (or as part of a collection).
It's possible for something circular to be distorted to make it almost
triangular with curved sides in such a way that all points on the
circumference are equidistant from the opposite point.
I think a bit for making a square hole has that shape.
Yes.

https://www.tool-rank.com/tool-blog/News/new-bits-let-you-drill-square-holes-20100413655/
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-29 17:06:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Can anyone name the Science Fiction story in which a large heavy object
had to be transported over a long distance, in a place where the ruling
theocracy regarded the circle as holy and thus any use of a circular
device - like a wheel - was anathema?
I name it "The Three-Cornered Wheel", by Poul Anderson.
I thought you were joking, but it seems not.  Maybe I came across it
under a different title (or as part of a collection).
It's possible for something circular to be distorted to make it almost
triangular with curved sides in such a way that all points on the
circumference are equidistant from the opposite point.
I think of it as a triangle with the sides bulged out. Each side is a
circular arc centered at the opposite point.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I think a bit for making a square hole has that shape.
Animation at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuleaux_triangle

However, a bit of Googling suggests that most bits for making square
holes are regular bits mounted in appropriately sized square punches.
The bit pulls the punch through the wood.
--
Jerry Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-30 07:34:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Sam Plusnet
Can anyone name the Science Fiction story in which a large heavy object
had to be transported over a long distance, in a place where the ruling
theocracy regarded the circle as holy and thus any use of a circular
device - like a wheel - was anathema?
I name it "The Three-Cornered Wheel", by Poul Anderson.
I thought you were joking, but it seems not.  Maybe I came across it
under a different title (or as part of a collection).
It's possible for something circular to be distorted to make it almost
triangular with curved sides in such a way that all points on the
circumference are equidistant from the opposite point.
I think of it as a triangle with the sides bulged out. Each side is a
circular arc centered at the opposite point.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I think a bit for making a square hole has that shape.
Animation at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuleaux_triangle
Very nice animation. Thanks.
Post by Jerry Friedman
However, a bit of Googling suggests that most bits for making square
holes are regular bits mounted in appropriately sized square punches.
The bit pulls the punch through the wood.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Janet
2021-04-29 11:28:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:14:14 +1100
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission drivers
in the days when they used to call out the major streets: omit all
consonants before the first vowel, and all vowels after.
(Later they pretty much stopped doing it. Now we have pre-recorded
announcements as well as displays showing the street name.)
The last time I was in Paris, taking a bus from the Gare de Lyon, I was
confident of getting off at the right place because of the overhead
display. Partway through the trip, the driver must have decided that the
stop displays were unnecessary, so he turned them off. By the time I
figured out that we'd overshot, the bus was about to turn around for the
return trip.
My last bus trip was in Brisbane, I think, and it was to a suburb I knew
nothing about, so it was not obvious when to get off. I solved that by
watching our current location on a map on my phone.
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I don't know what
the current technology is here.
I think the round wheel has yet to be bettered.
Can anyone name the Science Fiction story in which a large heavy object
had to be transported over a long distance, in a place where the ruling
theocracy regarded the circle as holy and thus any use of a circular
device - like a wheel - was anathema?
Sisyphus?

Janet
Janet
2021-04-28 11:53:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <s6acta$c97$***@dont-email.me>, ***@pmoylan.org.invalid
says...
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Mark Brader
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission drivers
in the days when they used to call out the major streets: omit all
consonants before the first vowel, and all vowels after.
(Later they pretty much stopped doing it. Now we have pre-recorded
announcements as well as displays showing the street name.)
The last time I was in Paris, taking a bus from the Gare de Lyon, I was
confident of getting off at the right place because of the overhead
display. Partway through the trip, the driver must have decided that the
stop displays were unnecessary, so he turned them off. By the time I
figured out that we'd overshot, the bus was about to turn around for the
return trip.
My last bus trip was in Brisbane, I think, and it was to a suburb I knew
nothing about, so it was not obvious when to get off. I solved that by
watching our current location on a map on my phone.
It's so long since I've taken a bus in Newcastle that I don't know what
the current technology is here.
There's always human speech as a last resort; just ask the driver to
call when we get to X.

Janet
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-28 12:31:00 UTC
Reply
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Post by Janet
says...
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Clive James used to say that BBC commentator Harry Carpenter pronounced
Wmbldn with no vowels at all.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Dingbat
2021-04-29 02:05:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Janet
says...
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Clive James used to say that BBC commentator Harry Carpenter pronounced
Wmbldn with no vowels at all.
I find it difficult to imagine that every nasal is syllabic. If they can't either,
their spellings are stylistic & facetious, respectively.
Abrdeen & Wimbldn is the most I could drop vowels.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Janet
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission drivers
in the days when they used to call out the major streets: omit all
consonants before the first vowel, and all vowels after.
I find it difficult to imagine drivers changing Bloor & Yonge to Oor & Ong.
Pamela
2021-04-28 12:48:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission drivers
in the days when they used to call out the major streets: omit all
consonants before the first vowel, and all vowels after.
Do you have any examples of this using the actual station names In
Toronto?
Post by Mark Brader
(Later they pretty much stopped doing it. Now we have pre-recorded
announcements as well as displays showing the street name.)
Mark Brader
2021-04-28 18:08:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Mark Brader
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission drivers
in the days when they used to call out the major streets: omit all
consonants before the first vowel, and all vowels after.
Do you have any examples of this using the actual station names In
Toronto?
I said nothing about stations.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "Show that 17x17 = 289. Generalise this result."
***@vex.net | -- Carl E. Linderholm
Pamela
2021-04-28 19:09:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Pamela
Post by Mark Brader
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission
drivers in the days when they used to call out the major
streets: omit all consonants before the first vowel, and all
vowels after.
Do you have any examples of this using the actual station names
In Toronto?
I said nothing about stations.
If this is not an urban railway system then do you have any
examples of whatever it is the Toronto Transit Commission drivers
would actually call out?
Mark Brader
2021-04-28 22:44:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Pamela
Post by Mark Brader
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission
drivers in the days when they used to call out the major
streets: omit all consonants before the first vowel, and all
vowels after.
Do you have any examples of this using the actual station names
In Toronto?
I said nothing about stations.
If this is not an urban railway system...
It's an urban transit system, of course. But the subway stations
have their names displayed in large letters, so no announcements
were required until the days of disability advocacy. It was buses
and streetcars where you'd hear stop announcements.
then do you have any examples of whatever it is the Toronto Transit
Commission drivers would actually call out?
Well, the first time I rode the #60 Steeles West, I heard "Uffrn" and
realized I'd reached my stop, Dufferin St.
--
Mark Brader | "You guys have your own pagan religion...
Toronto | Instead of sacrificing sheep, you sacrifice sleep."
***@vex.net | -- John Cramer

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-29 05:25:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Pamela
Post by Mark Brader
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission
drivers in the days when they used to call out the major
streets: omit all consonants before the first vowel, and all
vowels after.
Do you have any examples of this using the actual station names
In Toronto?
I said nothing about stations.
If this is not an urban railway system then do you have any
examples of whatever it is the Toronto Transit Commission drivers
would actually call out?
Do they pronounce "Coxwell" in a way that won't have Stefan clutching
his pearls?
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Lewis
2021-04-29 23:26:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Pamela
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Pamela
Post by Mark Brader
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission
drivers in the days when they used to call out the major
streets: omit all consonants before the first vowel, and all
vowels after.
Do you have any examples of this using the actual station names
In Toronto?
I said nothing about stations.
If this is not an urban railway system then do you have any
examples of whatever it is the Toronto Transit Commission drivers
would actually call out?
Do they pronounce "Coxwell" in a way that won't have Stefan clutching
his pearls?
Oh, if you really want to wind Stefan up, I suggest coxswain or just
cox.

"Who coxed that crew?" is sure to bring out the *'s, to say nothing of
"did you enjoy that Cox you just ate?"
--
This wasn't a proper land. The sky was blue, not flaming with all the
colours of the aurora. And time was passing. To a creature not
born subject to time, it was a sensation not unakin to falling.
--Lords and Ladies
CDB
2021-04-28 19:16:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 4/28/2021 2:08 PM, Mark Brader wrote:

Mark Brader>>> Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit
Commission drivers
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Pamela
Post by Mark Brader
in the days when they used to call out the major streets: omit
all consonants before the first vowel, and all vowels after.
Do you have any examples of this using the actual station names In
Toronto?
I said nothing about stations.
Not many vowels in "'Oncsvlls" (think Roland).
Quinn C
2021-04-28 12:57:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by occam
Summary: 'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Obviously inspired by the usage of Toronto Transit Commission drivers
in the days when they used to call out the major streets: omit all
consonants before the first vowel, and all vowels after.
People don't believe me when I say I once sat in a Metro train where the
three consecutive stations "Guy", "Peel" and "McGill" sounded pretty
much the same (they all have the same vowel in French, but at best what
was coming through the old audio system was /gi/, /pi/, /mgi/.)

Now we have an improved audio system, pre-recorded messages, and the
first station was renamed to Guy-Concordia.
--
Novels and romances ... when habitually indulged in, exert a
disastrous influence on the nervous system, sufficient to explain
that frequency of hysteria and nervous disease which we find
among the highest classes. -- E.J. Tilt
Stefan Ram
2021-04-28 19:44:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by occam
'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Modern English reduces and elides vowels in unstressed
syllables more than Old English. But this usually is
not reflected in writing. Otherwise, "model" might be
written as "modl".
Peter Moylan
2021-04-29 01:59:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Modern English reduces and elides vowels in unstressed
syllables more than Old English. But this usually is
not reflected in writing. Otherwise, "model" might be
written as "modl".
"Brisbane" is usually pronounced using a "zbn" consonant cluster.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Ken Blake
2021-04-29 16:17:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Modern English reduces and elides vowels in unstressed
syllables more than Old English. But this usually is
not reflected in writing. Otherwise, "model" might be
written as "modl".
"Brisbane" is usually pronounced using a "zbn" consonant cluster.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was more like BRIZZ-bin.
--
Ken
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-29 16:24:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Modern English reduces and elides vowels in unstressed
syllables more than Old English. But this usually is
not reflected in writing. Otherwise, "model" might be
written as "modl".
"Brisbane" is usually pronounced using a "zbn" consonant cluster.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was more like BRIZZ-bin.
Unlike the Brisbane near San Francisco, which is [brɪz'bɛɪ̯n] (brizbAIN).
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Lewis
2021-04-29 23:22:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Modern English reduces and elides vowels in unstressed
syllables more than Old English. But this usually is
not reflected in writing. Otherwise, "model" might be
written as "modl".
"Brisbane" is usually pronounced using a "zbn" consonant cluster.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was more like BRIZZ-bin.
That final I i barely there, enough that I can't hear it in Australian
TV. Sounds more like brizbn to these American ears, and as close to a
single syllable as it is possible to be.
--
Doctor inherits a castle
(Young Frankenstein)
Quinn C
2021-04-29 16:47:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Modern English reduces and elides vowels in unstressed
syllables more than Old English. But this usually is
not reflected in writing. Otherwise, "model" might be
written as "modl".
"Brisbane" is usually pronounced using a "zbn" consonant cluster.
Is there a Brizbn to Melbn train service?

I find the degree of reduction in the second name more unexpected.
--
The universe hates you - deal with it.
-- Seamus Harper
Peter Moylan
2021-04-30 06:40:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Modern English reduces and elides vowels in unstressed
syllables more than Old English. But this usually is
not reflected in writing. Otherwise, "model" might be
written as "modl".
"Brisbane" is usually pronounced using a "zbn" consonant cluster.
Is there a Brizbn to Melbn train service?
Not a direct service. You have to change trains in Sinny.
Post by Quinn C
I find the degree of reduction in the second name more unexpected.
Next weekend I'll be flying to Brisbane. It's 14 hours by train or 70
minutes by air, so the train trip is losing popularity.

Of course for the flight I'll have to drive to the airport (about 1
hour), and then pay a king's ransom to leave my car at the airport for
the weekend, but the plane still wins the competition.

Many years ago I took a train from Melbourne to Sydney (12 hours). I
wouldn't choose to do it again, but air fares were much higher back then.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Lewis
2021-04-30 21:09:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Modern English reduces and elides vowels in unstressed
syllables more than Old English. But this usually is
not reflected in writing. Otherwise, "model" might be
written as "modl".
"Brisbane" is usually pronounced using a "zbn" consonant cluster.
Is there a Brizbn to Melbn train service?
Not a direct service. You have to change trains in Sinny.
Post by Quinn C
I find the degree of reduction in the second name more unexpected.
Next weekend I'll be flying to Brisbane. It's 14 hours by train or 70
minutes by air, so the train trip is losing popularity.
Of course for the flight I'll have to drive to the airport (about 1
hour), and then pay a king's ransom to leave my car at the airport for
the weekend, but the plane still wins the competition.
Many years ago I took a train from Melbourne to Sydney (12 hours). I
wouldn't choose to do it again, but air fares were much higher back then.
I am surprised, that is a very slow train, or a very indirect route.
Driving takes less time than that (My friend in Melbourne says 10 hours,
with a stop for lunch, so about 9 hours total?).

Trains are supposed to be faster than cars, so I hear.

We only technically have trains in this country, however, and they have
to yield to coal trains (well, any freight trains) on basically all the
tracks in the US, so...
--
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
Quinn C
2021-04-30 21:18:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Many years ago I took a train from Melbourne to Sydney (12 hours). I
wouldn't choose to do it again, but air fares were much higher back then.
I am surprised, that is a very slow train, or a very indirect route.
Driving takes less time than that (My friend in Melbourne says 10 hours,
with a stop for lunch, so about 9 hours total?).
Trains are supposed to be faster than cars, so I hear.
We only technically have trains in this country, however, and they have
to yield to coal trains (well, any freight trains) on basically all the
tracks in the US, so...
That's the problem ... I've once taken the Montreal-New York train, but
once is enough. 12 hours as well; driving can be as little as 6.
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Peter Moylan
2021-05-01 03:15:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Many years ago I took a train from Melbourne to Sydney (12
hours). I wouldn't choose to do it again, but air fares were much
higher back then.
I am surprised, that is a very slow train, or a very indirect
route. Driving takes less time than that (My friend in Melbourne
says 10 hours, with a stop for lunch, so about 9 hours total?).
Trains are supposed to be faster than cars, so I hear.
Some countries have implemented fast trains. Australia keeps talking
about it, but nothing gets done.

When introducing a fast train, there's a near-guarantee that the
existing track will not be good enough. Curves have to be straightened,
alignment has to be perfect, hills have to be avoided or tunnelled
through, and so on. A total rebuild of a thousand kilometres of track is
a massive infrastructure project, so it won't go ahead unless there is
strong political support. In this country, the trucking lobby has more
political clout than train passengers.

Meanwhile, the road between Sydney and Melbourne has changed enormously
over the years. I used to count about 14 hours for the drive. Now you
can go the whole distance without leaving the freeway, provided that
your bladder can hold out. In that respect we're similar to the USA:
road-building gets massive public subsidies, but trains simply aren't
popular with politicians.

Another point: any route between those two cities, apart from the much
longer coastal route, has to cross the Great Dividing Range. Fast trains
don't like mountain ranges. Once I took a train trip from Frankfurt to
Munich. The first part of the trip was at about 300 km/hr, but we slowed
down markedly as we got closer to Munich. The terrain just wasn't
suitable for high speed.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Mark Brader
2021-05-01 04:26:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Some countries have implemented fast trains. Australia keeps talking
about it, but nothing gets done.
When introducing a fast train, there's a near-guarantee that the
existing track will not be good enough. Curves have to be straightened,
alignment has to be perfect, hills have to be avoided or tunnelled
through, and so on...
Except in England, where around 1980 they raised the speed limit on two
main lines from 100 to 125 mph *without* a level of work comparable to
building an all-new line as France and other countries did. And without
introducing tilting trains, either.

(The new trains were the HST[1], later marketed as Inter-City 125 and
then as Intercity 125. They were supposed to be an interim measure until
the planned all-singing all-dancing all-tilting APT[1] was ready to go
into service. But the APT never happened, while the HSTs were a great
success and remained in service on those routes until being replaced by
newer, more stupidly designed 125 mph trains in revent years.
Australia's XPT was basically an HST downrated to 95 mph.)

[1] High-Speed Train, Advanced Passenger Train.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto Rocket, 1829: The first 30 mph train.
***@vex.net TGV-A, 1989: The first 300 mph train.

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Chrysi Cat
2021-05-01 03:56:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by occam
'Standard Life Aberdeen' is being rebranded as 'Abrdn'.
Modern English reduces and elides vowels in unstressed
syllables more than Old English. But this usually is
not reflected in writing. Otherwise, "model" might be
written as "modl".
"Brisbane" is usually pronounced using a "zbn" consonant cluster.
Is there a Brizbn to Melbn train service?
Not a direct service. You have to change trains in Sinny.
Post by Quinn C
I find the degree of reduction in the second name more unexpected.
Next weekend I'll be flying to Brisbane. It's 14 hours by train or 70
minutes by air, so the train trip is losing popularity.
Of course for the flight I'll have to drive to the airport (about 1
hour), and then pay a king's ransom to leave my car at the airport for
the weekend, but the plane still wins the competition.
Many years ago I took a train from Melbourne to Sydney (12 hours). I
wouldn't choose to do it again, but air fares were much higher back then.
I am surprised, that is a very slow train, or a very indirect route.
Driving takes less time than that (My friend in Melbourne says 10 hours,
with a stop for lunch, so about 9 hours total?).
Trains are supposed to be faster than cars, so I hear.
We only technically have trains in this country, however, and they have
to yield to coal trains (well, any freight trains) on basically all the
tracks in the US, so...
As I understand it, this is also Australia's problem--just about
anywhere that ENGLISH transport law was the basis for things, freight
traffic takes priority (understandable at this point, because no sane
person would ever take a non-"transit" passenger train if they had a
time-sensitive appointment at the end of the trip. Likely responsible
for the death of passenger service in the first place, though, even when
it was still only slightly more expensive than bus/motorcoach
transport). In addition, like the US, the rail infrastructure predates
the 1950s in most areas--Alice Springs>>Darwin being the exception, as
it didn't exist prior to THIS CENTURY--which means tight corners that
limit how far a train can run at top speed even if it WEREN'T being
placed on a siding to let freight run.

Then you add in that said top speed is likely nearer 80 mph than 110,
and you quickly get a rail route that likely takes even more time to
traverse in 2021 than it did in 1956. And the only way around it seems
to be a dedicated series of passenger-only mainlines that would only
ever be anything other than a white elephant if it became impossible to
legally operate a plane at speeds above a train's top speed.

Admittedly, if all aircraft ever had to be carbon-emission-free, that
might happen; I don't see a way to get the speed of a modern jet
aircraft without actively combusting things, and I'm not entirely sure
that even a jet aircraft burning pure hydrogen could be both safe from
in-flight explosion and have a cruising radius greater than 800 miles.

But right now I don't want to contemplate futures that would make Denver
go back to being equally REMOTE from just about anywhere rather than
equally convenient TO just about anywhere.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
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