Discussion:
Expat or Immigrant?
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Lewis
2019-10-31 17:49:41 UTC
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What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?

There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.

I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
--
I WILL NOT EXPOSE THE IGNORANCE OF THE FACULTY Bart chalkboard Ep. 8F15
Horace LaBadie
2019-10-31 19:33:36 UTC
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Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
Expats don't give up allegiance to their native country, however
well-acclimated they have become in the new country?
Lanarcam
2019-10-31 20:25:05 UTC
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Post by Horace LaBadie
Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
Expats don't give up allegiance to their native country, however
well-acclimated they have become in the new country?
Just to show bad spirit:

Expats are uebermenschen, immigrants are untermenschen.
Paul Carmichael
2019-11-01 10:30:20 UTC
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Post by Lanarcam
Expats are uebermenschen, immigrants are untermenschen.
Here, have one of these: Ü. :-)
--
Paul.
Sam Plusnet
2019-10-31 19:50:21 UTC
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Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
As in emigrate & immigrate.
It all depends on your viewpoint.
--
Sam Plusnet
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-10-31 20:44:35 UTC
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Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
As in emigrate & immigrate.
It all depends on your viewpoint.
For me it's perfectly clear. For people in France I'm an immigrant; for
people in the UK I'm an ex-pat.
--
athel
Paul Carmichael
2019-11-01 14:13:33 UTC
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For me it's perfectly clear. For people in France I'm an immigrant; for people in the UK
I'm an ex-pat.
But what are you for you?  Could you talk about meeting some "other expats" or the
difficulties you face "as an immigrant", or both?
I don't get called an immigrant here in Spain. And until the you-know-what is sorted, I'm
just another european citizen. Then I'll be an immigrant. I'll have a British passport,
without the right to free movement around Europe. But living in Europe. Hell in a handcart
anyone?

Difficulties? Well, I get parking tickets where natives don't.
--
Paul.

https://paulc.es
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-01 15:38:33 UTC
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Post by Paul Carmichael
I don't get called an immigrant here in Spain. And until the you-know-what is sorted, I'm
just another european citizen. Then I'll be an immigrant. I'll have a British passport,
without the right to free movement around Europe. But living in Europe. Hell in a handcart
anyone?
Difficulties? Well, I get parking tickets where natives don't.
Can you not register your car locally without becoming an ES citizen?

When I moved from NY to NJ I had to change my car registration many months
before the old registration expired, in order to get a local on-street
parking permit. The State of New York had to refund the pro-rated fraction
of the less than $50 annual fee -- and I had to return my old NY license
plates in person after affixing the new NJ ones.
Tony Cooper
2019-11-01 14:15:52 UTC
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On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 07:31:56 -0600, Jerry Friedman
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
As in emigrate & immigrate.
It all depends on your viewpoint.
For me it's perfectly clear. For people in France I'm an immigrant; for
people in the UK I'm an ex-pat.
But what are you for you? Could you talk about meeting some "other
expats" or the difficulties you face "as an immigrant", or both?
I would say that an immigrant to this country comes here with the
intent of eventually becoming an American. An ex-pat will always
consider him/herself to be what they were before they came here.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-01 15:41:48 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 07:31:56 -0600, Jerry Friedman
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
For me it's perfectly clear. For people in France I'm an immigrant; for
people in the UK I'm an ex-pat.
But what are you for you? Could you talk about meeting some "other
expats" or the difficulties you face "as an immigrant", or both?
I would say that an immigrant to this country comes here with the
intent of eventually becoming an American. An ex-pat will always
consider him/herself to be what they were before they came here.
There are more categories than that. Migrant farm workers are neither
"immigrants" nor "ex-pats." They retain their (typically) Mexican
citizenship and cross the border as the harvest seasons call.

If France calls someone an "immigrant" who has no intention of settling
permanently (they do make it harder to become a citizen than the US (at
least until the last couple of years), don't they?), then they have a
gap in their lexicon.
Paul Carmichael
2019-11-01 16:20:08 UTC
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Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 07:31:56 -0600, Jerry Friedman
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
As in emigrate & immigrate.
It all depends on your viewpoint.
For me it's perfectly clear. For people in France I'm an immigrant; for
people in the UK I'm an ex-pat.
But what are you for you? Could you talk about meeting some "other
expats" or the difficulties you face "as an immigrant", or both?
I would say that an immigrant to this country comes here with the
intent of eventually becoming an American. An ex-pat will always
consider him/herself to be what they were before they came here.
I was recently talking to some fellow (Brit) translators that live in Europe. Most of them
are changing nationality for brexit. I haven't decided yet.
--
Paul.

https://paulc.es
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-01 17:58:24 UTC
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
As in emigrate & immigrate.
It all depends on your viewpoint.
For me it's perfectly clear. For people in France I'm an immigrant; for
people in the UK I'm an ex-pat.
But what are you for you? Could you talk about meeting some "other
expats" or the difficulties you face "as an immigrant", or both?
Good question. If the conversation happened in France I'd probably say
"immigrant"; if it happened anywhere else I might say "ex-pat", but I'm
not sure. As it happened, I was talking yesterday to someone I'd just
met who was also British and living in France, but I don't think we
discussed your point.
--
athel
Jerry Friedman
2019-10-31 19:52:44 UTC
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Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
I'm inclined to agree with Horace, though I might say "identification
with" rather than "allegiance to". I haven't checked whether I'm
agreeing with what I said in this thread on the subject:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.usage.english/zd5yoc_OZQI/JMzkjxV-AwAJ
--
Jerry Friedman
occam
2019-11-01 07:54:13 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
I'm inclined to agree with Horace, though I might say "identification
with" rather than "allegiance to". I haven't checked whether I'm
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.usage.english/zd5yoc_OZQI/JMzkjxV-AwAJ
Thank you for that link. I thought that the issue was well thrashed out
at that time.

The only new 'take' characterising the difference is well summarised by
Lanarcam. "Immigrants" has a negative connotation, and is normally used
to describe working class people. "Expats" are professionals, who may
(or not) have made a commitment to their country of residence. Brussels
is full of expats who work for European institutions. No one in their
right mind would refer to them as "immigrants" - not even the Belgians.
Cheryl
2019-11-01 10:03:25 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
I'm inclined to agree with Horace, though I might say "identification
with" rather than "allegiance to". I haven't checked whether I'm
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.usage.english/zd5yoc_OZQI/JMzkjxV-AwAJ
Thank you for that link. I thought that the issue was well thrashed out
at that time.
The only new 'take' characterising the difference is well summarised by
Lanarcam. "Immigrants" has a negative connotation, and is normally used
to describe working class people. "Expats" are professionals, who may
(or not) have made a commitment to their country of residence. Brussels
is full of expats who work for European institutions. No one in their
right mind would refer to them as "immigrants" - not even the Belgians.
While "immigrant" may sometimes have a negative connotation, I don't
think it always does, or is always applied to working class people. At
the time, we didn't use "ex-pat" but when my father lived in Canada, he
wasn't considered an immigrant because he came as an employee of an
American company and was expected to move on to another country sooner
or later. When my parents moved to the US, my mother was considered an
immigrant - although people generally didn't realize she was a pretty
reluctant one - because the assumption was that she was moving there
permanently. Both my parents were more or less of the same social
status, and although they both worked for pay, were probably not what is
meant by "working class". There were many war brides in my parents' day
- they were immigrants, not ex-pats or temporary workers, whatever their
social class.
--
Cheryl
Lewis
2019-11-01 12:05:16 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
I'm inclined to agree with Horace, though I might say "identification
with" rather than "allegiance to". I haven't checked whether I'm
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.usage.english/zd5yoc_OZQI/JMzkjxV-AwAJ
Thank you for that link. I thought that the issue was well thrashed out
at that time.
The only new 'take' characterising the difference is well summarised by
Lanarcam. "Immigrants" has a negative connotation, and is normally used
to describe working class people. "Expats" are professionals, who may
(or not) have made a commitment to their country of residence. Brussels
is full of expats who work for European institutions. No one in their
right mind would refer to them as "immigrants" - not even the Belgians.
Interesting.
--
Last night I stayed up late playing poker with Tarot cards. I got a full house and four people died.
Quinn C
2019-11-01 16:13:44 UTC
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Post by occam
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
I'm inclined to agree with Horace, though I might say "identification
with" rather than "allegiance to". I haven't checked whether I'm
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.usage.english/zd5yoc_OZQI/JMzkjxV-AwAJ
Thank you for that link. I thought that the issue was well thrashed out
at that time.
The only new 'take' characterising the difference is well summarised by
Lanarcam. "Immigrants" has a negative connotation, and is normally used
to describe working class people. "Expats" are professionals, who may
(or not) have made a commitment to their country of residence.
I think at best that's a European perspective. In Canada, and I assume
also the US or Australia, it is well known that immigrants have, on
average, higher education than the natives. I mean... you know what I
mean by natives.
Post by occam
Brussels
is full of expats who work for European institutions. No one in their
right mind would refer to them as "immigrants" - not even the Belgians.
Yes, but those are actually likely to go back to their country when
their job is done. Of course if they were staunch Europeans, they
wouldn't consider themselves either.
--
It was frequently the fastest way to find what he was looking
for, provided that he was looking for trouble.
-- L. McMaster Bujold, Gentleman Jole and the Red Queen
Tony Cooper
2019-11-01 16:39:26 UTC
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On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 12:13:44 -0400, Quinn C
Post by Quinn C
Post by occam
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
I'm inclined to agree with Horace, though I might say "identification
with" rather than "allegiance to". I haven't checked whether I'm
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.usage.english/zd5yoc_OZQI/JMzkjxV-AwAJ
Thank you for that link. I thought that the issue was well thrashed out
at that time.
The only new 'take' characterising the difference is well summarised by
Lanarcam. "Immigrants" has a negative connotation, and is normally used
to describe working class people. "Expats" are professionals, who may
(or not) have made a commitment to their country of residence.
I think at best that's a European perspective. In Canada, and I assume
also the US or Australia, it is well known that immigrants have, on
average, higher education than the natives. I mean... you know what I
mean by natives.
I don't think that's the case at all in the US. We have so many that
are here as "asylum seekers", and I don't think they have much of a
formal education.

The question is about numbers because you have said "on average".
There's no argument that many immigrants are highly educated, and many
are unable to get employment in the US that their education would
qualify them for. However, that "on average" statement is questioned.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Spains Harden
2019-11-01 16:36:12 UTC
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Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
Immigrants intend to stay.
Expats intend to go back home.
Tak To
2019-11-01 17:49:49 UTC
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Post by Lewis
What is the difference between an Expat and an immigrant?
The terms are not mutually exclusive.

"Immigrant" implies a willingness to settle down permanently
and to "go native", so to speak. There is also a legal
definition of immigration which varies from country to country.
Post by Lewis
There seems to be some difference, but I can't seem to figure out what
it is. Certainly the Americans I know and knew in Mexico do not call
themselves immigrants.
I have a friend in Thailand who has lived there 20 years, and another in
Japan who's been there 15 years. Both are "expats" but neither knows
why when I asked.
Perhaps your friends identified themselves as ex-pats because
the were talking to *you*. OTOH, do you know if they have
gone through the legal immigration process in the respective
countries?
--
Tak
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