Discussion:
are sat, was sat
(too old to reply)
Madhu
2019-11-24 16:31:01 UTC
Permalink
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."

"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."

[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]

I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-24 17:03:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html
]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
"I was sat" or "we was sat" are quite common in non-standard English,
but I wouldn't recommend that you say them in an interview for a high
position.
--
athel
b***@aol.com
2019-11-24 18:23:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html
]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
"I was sat" or "we was sat" are quite common in non-standard English,
but I wouldn't recommend that you say them in an interview for a high
position.
Indeed: better to be stood than sat for a high position.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
--
athel
Paul Carmichael
2019-11-24 19:36:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
"I was sat" or "we was sat" are quite common in non-standard English
Obviously the second example is pretty horrible, but "I was sat" sounds pretty familiar to
me. Are you saying it should be "I was seated", "I was sitting" or "I sat"?

I think "I was sat" must have come into general usage before my time, as I certainly
wouldn't even have noticed it.

In the north of England, they might even say "I were sat...".
--
Paul.

https://paulc.es
John Dunlop
2019-11-25 08:37:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Carmichael
Obviously the second example is pretty horrible, but "I was sat"
sounds pretty familiar to me. Are you saying it should be "I was
seated", "I was sitting" or "I sat"?
"I was sat" to mean "I was sitting" is still non-standard, but it's well
on its way to becoming standard. I'm increasingly hearing it from
educated speakers.
--
John
Tony Cooper
2019-11-24 22:53:48 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 18:03:16 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html
]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
"I was sat" or "we was sat" are quite common in non-standard English,
but I wouldn't recommend that you say them in an interview for a high
position.
Or describing eating at the High Table.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Lewis
2019-11-25 04:59:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 18:03:16 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html
]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
"I was sat" or "we was sat" are quite common in non-standard English,
but I wouldn't recommend that you say them in an interview for a high
position.
Or describing eating at the High Table.
"I was sat" is normal, "we was sat" is not.
--
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons for you are crunchy and taste
good with ketchup
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2019-11-25 13:26:51 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 24 Nov 2019 18:03:16 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html
]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
"I was sat" or "we was sat"
Or even "we were sat"!

In the use we are discussing "sat" means "sitting".

Translating the quotations into more standard English:

"In the video, two passengers are sitting on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."

"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sitting between the guy and the family to try
and be a bit of a barrier."
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
are quite common in non-standard English,
but I wouldn't recommend that you say them in an interview for a high
position.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-11-24 18:26:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and
be a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-t
orrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html
]
I see that "dailyfail" redirects to "dailymail"; I suppose it *is* a
well-known synonym!
Post by Madhu
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
occam
2019-11-25 08:57:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and
be a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-t
orrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html
]
I see that "dailyfail" redirects to "dailymail"; I suppose it *is* a
well-known synonym!
Interesting. It is not strictly a 'redirection'. The whole of the Daily
Mail web site is hosted as www.dailyfail.co.uk.

I wonder if the newspaper was one of the early victims of cybernet
squatting - and that it never managed to get its web address name
recovered from the squatters. A lot of large and well-known
organisations fell victim of this in the early 1990s, when some
unscrupulous investors registered URLs under their own name, and tried
to sell them back to the 'rightful' organisations.
Ross
2019-11-24 19:32:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
See "is sat" thread from early 2017.
"Sat" is, I think, a past participle of "set". So the "be sat" construction
is more like "be seated" than "sit".
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-24 21:13:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Young
2019-11-24 22:16:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torr
ent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
As said upthread, that usage is non-standard BrE, usually among the
relatively uneducated, as long as saying that isn't now politically
incorrect.

Peter
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-25 04:27:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torr
ent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
As said upthread, that usage is non-standard BrE, usually among the
relatively uneducated, as long as saying that isn't now politically
incorrect.
I meant I don't know whether you'd hear it from relatively uneducated
speakers everywhere in Britain, or whether it was absent from some
regions as it seems to be absent from other countries, including mine.
--
Jerry Friedman
Ian Jackson
2019-11-25 08:11:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torr
ent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
As said upthread, that usage is non-standard BrE, usually among the
relatively uneducated, as long as saying that isn't now politically
incorrect.
Sadly, quite a lot of the not-so-relatively-uneducated British now
invariably (mis)use "sat" when they really mean "sitting". It has become
another of those words that 'hit me between the ears' every time I hear
it.
--
Ian
John Dunlop
2019-11-25 10:11:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Sadly, quite a lot of the not-so-relatively-uneducated British now
invariably (mis)use "sat" when they really mean "sitting". It has become
another of those words that 'hit me between the ears' every time I hear
it.
Language change -- I'm not going to take it sat down!
--
John
b***@aol.com
2019-11-25 16:23:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Peter Young
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torr
ent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
As said upthread, that usage is non-standard BrE, usually among the
relatively uneducated, as long as saying that isn't now politically
incorrect.
Sadly, quite a lot of the not-so-relatively-uneducated British now
invariably (mis)use "sat" when they really mean "sitting".
It also seems "be stood" can be used for "be standing" in Yorkshire.
Does the same hold true for other parts of England?
Post by Ian Jackson
It has become
another of those words that 'hit me between the ears' every time I hear
it.
--
Ian
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-25 17:00:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
It also seems "be stood" can be used for "be standing" in Yorkshire.
Does the same hold true for other parts of England?
And, at least according to legal dramas, the BrE for "All rise!" when
the judge enters the courtroom is "Be upstanding!"

An upstanding citizen is something else.
Peter Young
2019-11-25 17:07:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Peter Young
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torr
ent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
As said upthread, that usage is non-standard BrE, usually among the
relatively uneducated, as long as saying that isn't now politically
incorrect.
Sadly, quite a lot of the not-so-relatively-uneducated British now
invariably (mis)use "sat" when they really mean "sitting".
It also seems "be stood" can be used for "be standing" in Yorkshire.
Does the same hold true for other parts of England?
Not that I know of. "Be upstanding" is still sometimes be heard at formal
occasions.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Quinn C
2019-11-25 17:32:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by b***@aol.com
It also seems "be stood" can be used for "be standing" in Yorkshire.
Does the same hold true for other parts of England?
Not that I know of. "Be upstanding" is still sometimes be heard at formal
occasions.
I just played the board game Photosynthesis for the first time, in
which you try to get your trees to grow faster than the opponents'
trees.

One other player summed the goals of the game up as "stand tall and
throw shade".
--
... their average size remains so much smaller; so that the sum
total of food converted into thought by women can never equal
[that of] men. It follows therefore, that men will always think
more than women. -- M.A. Hardaker in Popular Science (1881)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_intelligence#Historical_perspectives
b***@aol.com
2019-11-25 19:01:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Peter Young
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torr
ent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
As said upthread, that usage is non-standard BrE, usually among the
relatively uneducated, as long as saying that isn't now politically
incorrect.
Sadly, quite a lot of the not-so-relatively-uneducated British now
invariably (mis)use "sat" when they really mean "sitting".
It also seems "be stood" can be used for "be standing" in Yorkshire.
Does the same hold true for other parts of England?
Not that I know of. "Be upstanding" is still sometimes be heard at formal
occasions.
FWIW, I came across this on the subject:

---
In an Oct. 3, 2012, post on the Oxford Dictionaries blog, the
lexicographer Catherine Soanes notes the increasing nonstandard use
of the past participles “sat” and “stood” for the present participles
“sitting” and “standing” in British English.

She reports hearing several instances of the usage on the BBC, including
“She’s sat at the table eating breakfast” and “we were stood at the bar
waiting to be served.”

[...]

“... my research shows that this usage (which used to be restricted to
some regional British dialects) is becoming more widespread in British
English, and is even appearing in edited writing such as newspapers and
magazines.”

https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2017/12/sat-stood.html
---
Post by Peter Young
Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Spains Harden
2019-11-25 20:22:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Peter Young
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Peter Young
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torr
ent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
As said upthread, that usage is non-standard BrE, usually among the
relatively uneducated, as long as saying that isn't now politically
incorrect.
Sadly, quite a lot of the not-so-relatively-uneducated British now
invariably (mis)use "sat" when they really mean "sitting".
It also seems "be stood" can be used for "be standing" in Yorkshire.
Does the same hold true for other parts of England?
Not that I know of. "Be upstanding" is still sometimes be heard at formal
occasions.
---
In an Oct. 3, 2012, post on the Oxford Dictionaries blog, the
lexicographer Catherine Soanes notes the increasing nonstandard use
of the past participles “sat” and “stood” for the present participles
“sitting” and “standing” in British English.
She reports hearing several instances of the usage on the BBC, including
“She’s sat at the table eating breakfast” and “we were stood at the bar
waiting to be served.”
I've been on that cruise.
Ian Jackson
2019-11-25 20:03:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Peter Young
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
Post by Madhu
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torr
ent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
As said upthread, that usage is non-standard BrE, usually among the
relatively uneducated, as long as saying that isn't now politically
incorrect.
Sadly, quite a lot of the not-so-relatively-uneducated British now
invariably (mis)use "sat" when they really mean "sitting".
It also seems "be stood" can be used for "be standing" in Yorkshire.
Does the same hold true for other parts of England?
Yes - "I am/was stood" (etc) is also heard elsewhere.
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Ian Jackson
It has become
another of those words that 'hit me between the ears' every time I hear
it.
And "stood" is yet another.
--
Ian
Janet
2019-11-25 11:31:27 UTC
Permalink
In article <qrerpn$4os$***@news.albasani.net>, ***@yahoo.com
says...
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.


Janet.
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-25 11:37:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
says...
<snip>
Post by Janet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
What did he did, exactly?
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Janet
2019-11-25 13:11:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Janet
says...
<snip>
Post by Janet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
What did he did, exactly?


Janet
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-25 13:34:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Janet
says...
<snip>
Post by Janet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
What did he did, exactly?
http://youtu.be/AjeA7Z8s3aI
"That man should be at woman's command, and yet no hurt did!" (AWTEW
Iiii...ish.)
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Spains Harden
2019-11-25 14:33:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Janet
says...
<snip>
Post by Janet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
What did he did, exactly?
http://youtu.be/AjeA7Z8s3aI
More recently Robert Plant & Alison Krauss:

"Gone Gone Gone
Because you done me wrong".


Ian Jackson
2019-11-25 13:33:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Janet
says...
<snip>
Post by Janet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
What did he did, exactly?
There is the legendary (and apparently genuine) example of a UK TV
sports reporter's assessment of how a footballer had performed that day
- "The boy done good". It shows how, if you discount the definite
article, it's possible to make two grammatical mistakes in only three
words.
http://tinyurl.com/w5jp4je
--
Ian
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-25 13:40:37 UTC
Permalink
On 25/11/2019 13:33, Ian Jackson wrote:

<snip>
Post by Ian Jackson
There is the legendary (and apparently genuine) example of a UK TV
sports reporter's assessment of how a footballer had performed that day
- "The boy done good". It shows how, if you discount the definite
article, it's possible to make two grammatical mistakes in only three
words.
It's remarkably concise. I've been trying to construct a shorter example
(other than the obvious and derivative "he done good" or, slightly
shorter, "he done bad"), but I gave it up as a bad job.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Paul Carmichael
2019-11-25 14:32:51 UTC
Permalink
There is the legendary (and apparently genuine) example of a UK TV sports reporter's
assessment of how a footballer had performed that day - "The boy done good".
And as enny fule nose, when plod (the feds, for the leftpondians) knocks on your door, you
say "It's a fair cop guv, I dun the blag".
--
Paul.

https://paulc.es
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-25 14:48:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Carmichael
Post by Ian Jackson
There is the legendary (and apparently genuine) example of a UK TV
sports reporter's assessment of how a footballer had performed that
day - "The boy done good".
And as enny fule nose, when plod (the feds, for the leftpondians) knocks
on your door, you say "It's a fair cop guv, I dun the blag".
Sans blague?

(I know the answer is no.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-25 14:47:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Janet
says...
<snip>
Post by Janet
I've never come across this use of sat.  I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between".  But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British.  I've never heard it in the U.S.  I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
     You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
What did he did, exactly?
There is the legendary (and apparently genuine) example of a UK TV
sports reporter's assessment of how a footballer had performed that day
- "The boy done good". It shows how, if you discount the definite
article, it's possible to make two grammatical mistakes in only three
words.
http://tinyurl.com/w5jp4je
"Done good" exists over here, maybe especially "You done good."

https://christthelordbrookfield.org/sermons/you-done-good/

For three non-standard words out of three, there's "They ain't none" for
"There aren't any", though you might say the first word is non-standard
in pronunciation rather than grammar.
--
Jerry Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-25 14:55:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Ian Jackson
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Janet
says...
<snip>
Post by Janet
I've never come across this use of sat.  I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between".  But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British.  I've never heard it in the U.S.  I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
     You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
What did he did, exactly?
There is the legendary (and apparently genuine) example of a UK TV
sports reporter's assessment of how a footballer had performed that day
- "The boy done good". It shows how, if you discount the definite
article, it's possible to make two grammatical mistakes in only three
words.
http://tinyurl.com/w5jp4je
"Done good" exists over here, maybe especially "You done good."
https://christthelordbrookfield.org/sermons/you-done-good/
For three non-standard words out of three, there's "They ain't none"
for "There aren't any", though you might say the first word is
non-standard in pronunciation rather than grammar.
One of my cousins swore she heard the following in Devon dialect some
time in the 1960s: Bean't be bad beans, be 'em? Someone was commenting
on the baked beans at a ram roasting or something similar.
--
athel
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-25 15:04:17 UTC
Permalink
On 25/11/2019 14:55, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:

<snip>
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
One of my cousins swore she heard the following in Devon dialect some
time in the 1960s: Bean't be bad beans, be 'em? Someone was commenting
on the baked beans at a ram roasting or something similar.
In "Eavesdroppings" (a Nigel Rees collection of things overheard on the
bus, in the street, etc), a contributor relates walking through an East
Anglian town centre behind two teen-to-twenties women who'd just seen
someone across the street waving to them.

"Why do 'er wave to we? Us don't know she!"
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-25 15:28:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
<snip>
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
One of my cousins swore she heard the following in Devon dialect some
time in the 1960s: Bean't be bad beans, be 'em? Someone was commenting
on the baked beans at a ram roasting or something similar.
In "Eavesdroppings" (a Nigel Rees collection of things overheard on the
bus, in the street, etc), a contributor relates walking through an East
Anglian town centre behind two teen-to-twenties women who'd just seen
someone across the street waving to them.
"Why do 'er wave to we? Us don't know she!"
I obviously failed to spend enough time eavesdropping in East Anglian
town centers.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Young
2019-11-25 15:44:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
<snip>
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
One of my cousins swore she heard the following in Devon dialect some
time in the 1960s: Bean't be bad beans, be 'em? Someone was commenting
on the baked beans at a ram roasting or something similar.
In "Eavesdroppings" (a Nigel Rees collection of things overheard on the
bus, in the street, etc), a contributor relates walking through an East
Anglian town centre behind two teen-to-twenties women who'd just seen
someone across the street waving to them.
"Why do 'er wave to we? Us don't know she!"
That would also be said in the Forest of Dean.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Quinn C
2019-11-25 17:27:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
In "Eavesdroppings" (a Nigel Rees collection of things overheard on the
bus, in the street, etc), a contributor relates walking through an East
Anglian town centre behind two teen-to-twenties women who'd just seen
someone across the street waving to them.
"Why do 'er wave to we? Us don't know she!"
That would also be said in the Forest of Dean.
Are subject and object pronouns exactly flipped, as in the example, or
is it more that they are freely exchangeable?
--
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against
his government.
-- Edward Abbey
Peter Young
2019-11-25 19:59:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
In "Eavesdroppings" (a Nigel Rees collection of things overheard on the
bus, in the street, etc), a contributor relates walking through an East
Anglian town centre behind two teen-to-twenties women who'd just seen
someone across the street waving to them.
"Why do 'er wave to we? Us don't know she!"
That would also be said in the Forest of Dean.
Are subject and object pronouns exactly flipped, as in the example, or
is it more that they are freely exchangeable?
In the Forest of Dean dialect, these prepositions are pretty much fixed.
As I think I have remarked before, there's also a lack of the use if "it",
particularly in personal contexts. For instance, "How's you leg today?"
"Well 'e do be not so good".

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Peter Moylan
2019-11-26 04:13:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
<snip>
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
One of my cousins swore she heard the following in Devon dialect some
time in the 1960s: Bean't be bad beans, be 'em? Someone was commenting
on the baked beans at a ram roasting or something similar.
In "Eavesdroppings" (a Nigel Rees collection of things overheard on the
bus, in the street, etc), a contributor relates walking through an East
Anglian town centre behind two teen-to-twenties women who'd just seen
someone across the street waving to them.
"Why do 'er wave to we? Us don't know she!"
I once heard a woman tell her young child "Talk proper".
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-25 14:15:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for past
participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well known in
the U.S. too.
--
Jerry Friedman
Tony Cooper
2019-11-25 20:21:40 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:15:18 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for past
participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well known in
the U.S. too.
What? The proper form is "my dog got run over". The less literate
version is "my dog done got run over".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Ken Blake
2019-11-25 20:41:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:15:18 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for past
participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well known in
the U.S. too.
What? The proper form is "my dog got run over".
Yes.
Post by Tony Cooper
The less literate
version is "my dog done got run over".
I think that's regional. I've read that construction, but I don't
remember ever having heard it
--
Ken
Spains Harden
2019-11-25 20:58:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:15:18 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for past
participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well known in
the U.S. too.
What? The proper form is "my dog got run over".
Yes.
Post by Tony Cooper
The less literate
version is "my dog done got run over".
How about "The dog up and died"? Mr Bojangles.
Tony Cooper
2019-11-25 21:37:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:15:18 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for past
participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well known in
the U.S. too.
What? The proper form is "my dog got run over".
Yes.
Post by Tony Cooper
The less literate
version is "my dog done got run over".
I think that's regional. I've read that construction, but I don't
remember ever having heard it
Seriously, constructions like this are used deliberately by some
people as a friendly, light, response.

After a dinner party for the boss, your wife says "How'd it go? asking
if you think her preparations for the evening went well. You respond
"You done good, babe." Informal and less stuffy than a formal
response.

When one of those annoying people asks why you have such a serious
expression on your face, you reply "My dog done got run over". No dog
involved; it's a light response to a question that really has no
legitimate reason for being asked.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-25 22:30:33 UTC
Permalink
On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 2:37:22 PM UTC-7, Tony Cooper wrote:

[done good]
Post by Tony Cooper
Seriously, constructions like this are used deliberately by some
people as a friendly, light, response.
After a dinner party for the boss, your wife says "How'd it go? asking
if you think her preparations for the evening went well. You respond
"You done good, babe." Informal and less stuffy than a formal
response.
...

I agree. It's one of those non-standard expressions sometimes used
by people who usually speak standard English, like "ain't" and
maybe "It don't matter."

Not that I'd ever say it.
--
Jerry Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-26 09:11:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:15:18 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for past
participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well known in
the U.S. too.
What? The proper form is "my dog got run over".
Yes.
Post by Tony Cooper
The less literate
version is "my dog done got run over".
I think that's regional. I've read that construction, but I don't
remember ever having heard it
Seriously, constructions like this are used deliberately by some
people as a friendly, light, response.
After a dinner party for the boss, your wife says "How'd it go? asking
if you think her preparations for the evening went well. You respond
"You done good, babe." Informal and less stuffy than a formal
response.
When one of those annoying people asks why you have such a serious
expression on your face, you reply "My dog done got run over". No dog
involved;
Are you sure it's safe to say that? I seem to recall someone here being
shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to be
convinced that no actual cat was involved.
Post by Tony Cooper
it's a light response to a question that really has no
legitimate reason for being asked.
--
athel
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-11-26 10:52:18 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:15:18 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for
past participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are
well known in the U.S. too.
What? The proper form is "my dog got run over".
Yes.
Post by Tony Cooper
The less literate
version is "my dog done got run over".
I think that's regional. I've read that construction, but I don't
remember ever having heard it
Seriously, constructions like this are used deliberately by some
people as a friendly, light, response.
After a dinner party for the boss, your wife says "How'd it go?
asking if you think her preparations for the evening went well. You
respond "You done good, babe." Informal and less stuffy than a
formal response.
When one of those annoying people asks why you have such a serious
expression on your face, you reply "My dog done got run over". No
dog involved;
Are you sure it's safe to say that? I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
it's a light response to a question that really has no
legitimate reason for being asked.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-26 10:54:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:15:18 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for
past participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are
well known in the U.S. too.
What? The proper form is "my dog got run over".
Yes.
Post by Tony Cooper
The less literate
version is "my dog done got run over".
I think that's regional. I've read that construction, but I don't
remember ever having heard it
Seriously, constructions like this are used deliberately by some
people as a friendly, light, response.
After a dinner party for the boss, your wife says "How'd it go?
asking if you think her preparations for the evening went well. You
respond "You done good, babe." Informal and less stuffy than a
formal response.
When one of those annoying people asks why you have such a serious
expression on your face, you reply "My dog done got run over". No
dog involved;
Are you sure it's safe to say that? I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
it's a light response to a question that really has no
legitimate reason for being asked.
--
athel
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-11-26 12:45:45 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:15:18 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for
past participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are
well known in the U.S. too.
What? The proper form is "my dog got run over".
Yes.
Post by Tony Cooper
The less literate
version is "my dog done got run over".
I think that's regional. I've read that construction, but I don't
remember ever having heard it
Seriously, constructions like this are used deliberately by some
people as a friendly, light, response.
After a dinner party for the boss, your wife says "How'd it go?
asking if you think her preparations for the evening went well. You
respond "You done good, babe." Informal and less stuffy than a
formal response.
When one of those annoying people asks why you have such a serious
expression on your face, you reply "My dog done got run over". No
dog involved;
Are you sure it's safe to say that? I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Tony Cooper
it's a light response to a question that really has no
legitimate reason for being asked.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-26 13:00:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Peter Young
2019-11-26 13:12:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Katy Jennison
2019-11-26 15:21:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves to
be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
--
Katy Jennison
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-26 15:28:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it
differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves to
be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."

Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you. Mathematicians
will delight in telling you (no doubt at some length) about a particular
kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named for Cartan,
Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the space required
to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the case may be.

So I suppose the underlying question may be whether the cats are
case-sensitive.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Sam Plusnet
2019-11-26 18:52:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it
differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you. Mathematicians
will delight in telling you (no doubt at some length) about a particular
kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named for Cartan,
Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the space required
to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the case may be.
So I suppose the underlying question may be whether the cats are
case-sensitive.
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
--
Sam Plusnet
Quinn C
2019-11-26 19:27:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you. Mathematicians
will delight in telling you (no doubt at some length) about a particular
kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named for Cartan,
Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the space required
to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the case may be.
So I suppose the underlying question may be whether the cats are
case-sensitive.
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
I thought that case was closed. Or else, we could tell.
--
It gets hot in Raleigh, but Texas! I don't know why anybody
lives here, honestly.
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.220
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-11-27 09:36:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you. Mathematicians
will delight in telling you (no doubt at some length) about a
particular kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named
for Cartan, Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the
space required to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the
case may be.
So I suppose the underlying question may be whether the cats are
case-sensitive.
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
For this experiment you'll need a quantum cat.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-27 12:06:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you. Mathematicians
will delight in telling you (no doubt at some length) about a
particular kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named
for Cartan, Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the
space required to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the
case may be.
So I suppose the underlying question may be whether the cats are
case-sensitive.
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
For this experiment you'll need a quantum cat.
Wave cat or particle cat?

I have met both kinds. Wave cats are often seen flowing down staircases,
and particle cats climb wallpaper and occasionally draw blood. Sometimes
they're the same cat.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-27 14:01:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you. Mathematicians
will delight in telling you (no doubt at some length) about a
particular kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named
for Cartan, Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the
space required to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the
case may be.
So I suppose the underlying question may be whether the cats are
case-sensitive.
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
For this experiment you'll need a quantum cat.
Wave cat or particle cat?
I have met both kinds. Wave cats are often seen flowing down
staircases, and particle cats climb wallpaper and occasionally draw
blood. Sometimes they're the same cat.
That's as it should be: light is both a wave and a particle. Cats too,
I expect, though calculating the wave function of a cat would be beyond
the capacity of all the compiuters in the world.
--
athel
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-27 14:17:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you. Mathematicians
will delight in telling you (no doubt at some length) about a
particular kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named
for Cartan, Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the
space required to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the
case may be.
So I suppose the underlying question may be whether the cats are
case-sensitive.
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
For this experiment you'll need a quantum cat.
Wave cat or particle cat?
I have met both kinds. Wave cats are often seen flowing down
staircases, and particle cats climb wallpaper and occasionally draw
blood. Sometimes they're the same cat.
That's as it should be: light is both a wave and a particle. Cats too, I
expect, though calculating the wave function of a cat would be beyond
the capacity of all the compiuters in the world.
True, but odd, because staircases seem to manage it just fine.

This clearly indicates that further research is required into climbable
computers.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Ken Blake
2019-11-27 15:48:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you. Mathematicians
will delight in telling you (no doubt at some length) about a
particular kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named
for Cartan, Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the
space required to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the
case may be.
So I suppose the underlying question may be whether the cats are
case-sensitive.
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
For this experiment you'll need a quantum cat.
Wave cat or particle cat?
I have met both kinds. Wave cats are often seen flowing down staircases,
and particle cats climb wallpaper and occasionally draw blood. Sometimes
they're the same cat.
Speaking of wave cats, https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/waving-cat.html
--
Ken
Lewis
2019-11-27 22:13:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you. Mathematicians
will delight in telling you (no doubt at some length) about a
particular kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named
for Cartan, Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the
space required to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the
case may be.
So I suppose the underlying question may be whether the cats are
case-sensitive.
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
For this experiment you'll need a quantum cat.
Wave cat or particle cat?
Yes, of course. Also, Schrodinger Cat.
Post by Richard Heathfield
I have met both kinds. Wave cats are often seen flowing down staircases,
and particle cats climb wallpaper and occasionally draw blood. Sometimes
they're the same cat.
Always, it's you who observe them that determines the type of cat.
--
I went to a restaurant that serves "breakfast at any time". So I
ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.
b***@aol.com
2019-11-27 19:30:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you. Mathematicians
will delight in telling you (no doubt at some length) about a
particular kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named
for Cartan, Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the
space required to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the
case may be.
So I suppose the underlying question may be whether the cats are
case-sensitive.
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
For this experiment you'll need a quantum cat.
One that makes quantum leaps?
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Ken Blake
2019-11-27 19:44:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you. Mathematicians
will delight in telling you (no doubt at some length) about a
particular kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named
for Cartan, Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the
space required to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the
case may be.
So I suppose the underlying question may be whether the cats are
case-sensitive.
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
For this experiment you'll need a quantum cat.
One that makes quantum leaps?
Leaving aside all the jokes in this thread, I hate the phrase "quantum
leap." It gets the meaning of the word "quantum" backward. It's used to
mean a big leap, but it should mean the smallest leap possible.
--
Ken
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-27 20:12:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and
refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
Post by Peter Young
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you.
Mathematicians >> will delight in telling you (no doubt at some
length) about a
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
particular kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named
for Cartan, Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the
space required to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the
case may be. >> >> So I suppose the underlying question may be
whether the cats are >> case-sensitive.
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
For this experiment you'll need a quantum cat.
One that makes quantum leaps?
Leaving aside all the jokes in this thread, I hate the phrase "quantum
leap." It gets the meaning of the word "quantum" backward. It's used to
mean a big leap, but  it should mean the smallest leap possible.
You obviously have a point, but I think the key here is significance
rather than size. A quantum leap might be very small, but it is
enormously significant.

Just as a quantum jump from one energy level to another is a significant
transition for an electron even though it's attoscopic, so can a quantum
leap in science be tiny but significant. Consider, for example, Kekulé's
daydream about a snake eating its own tail, which led to his working out
the ring structure of benzene, or Watson's "spiral staircase" dream that
put him onto DNA's double helix structure, or Archimedes' "eureka" bath.

I don't know how that last paragraph will appear on Usenet as large, but
as I look at it here in Thunderbird I see that it's perfectly justified,
as indeed is this one. (The first was accidental; this one's contrived.)
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-27 20:14:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Just as a quantum jump from one energy level to another is a significant
transition for an electron even though it's attoscopic, so can a quantum
leap in science be tiny but significant. Consider, for example, Kekulé's
daydream about a snake eating its own tail, which led to his working out
the ring structure of benzene, or Watson's "spiral staircase" dream that
put him onto DNA's double helix structure, or Archimedes' "eureka" bath.
I don't know how that last paragraph will appear on Usenet as large, but
as I look at it here in Thunderbird I see that it's perfectly justified,
as indeed is this one. (The first was accidental; this one's contrived.)
Hmm. Doesn't know the difference between monospaced and proportionally
spaced fonts -- or how fonts are assigned in his particular reading machine.
Ken Blake
2019-11-27 20:40:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Ken Blake
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and
refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it
differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
Post by Peter Young
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you.
Mathematicians >> will delight in telling you (no doubt at some
length) about a
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
particular kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named
for Cartan, Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the
space required to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the
case may be. >> >> So I suppose the underlying question may be
whether the cats are >> case-sensitive.
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
For this experiment you'll need a quantum cat.
One that makes quantum leaps?
Leaving aside all the jokes in this thread, I hate the phrase "quantum
leap." It gets the meaning of the word "quantum" backward. It's used to
mean a big leap, but  it should mean the smallest leap possible.
You obviously have a point, but I think the key here is significance
rather than size. A quantum leap might be very small, but it is
enormously significant.
There might be some people who use the term that way, but the term has
become very popular among people who have no understanding of what it
means. To the great majority of people it means a big leap, not a
significant leap.

Here's a definition:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quantum%20leap
--
Ken
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-27 21:12:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Ken Blake
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and
refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it
differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose
themselves
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
Post by Peter Young
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you.
Mathematicians >> will delight in telling you (no doubt at some
length) about a
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
particular kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is
named
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
for Cartan, Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be
the
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
space required to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the
case may be. >> >> So I suppose the underlying question may be
whether the cats are >> case-sensitive.
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
For this experiment you'll need a quantum cat.
One that makes quantum leaps?
Leaving aside all the jokes in this thread, I hate the phrase
"quantum leap." It gets the meaning of the word "quantum" backward.
It's used to mean a big leap, but  it should mean the smallest leap
possible.
You obviously have a point, but I think the key here is significance
rather than size. A quantum leap might be very small, but it is
enormously significant.
There might be some people who use the term that way, but the term has
become very popular among people who have no understanding of what it
means. To the great majority of people it means a big leap, not a
significant leap.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/quantum%20leap
...which says "an abrupt change, sudden increase, or dramatic advance" -
and, as far as I can see, that's more or less a macroscopic analogue to
what a quantum-mechanical jump actually is (an abrupt change from one
energy level to another; a sudden increase in energy).

I do see the point, as I said before; but I don't think it's quite such
a stretch as some people seem to be making out.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Quinn C
2019-11-27 22:55:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
For this experiment you'll need a quantum cat.
One that makes quantum leaps?
Leaving aside all the jokes in this thread, I hate the phrase "quantum
leap." It gets the meaning of the word "quantum" backward. It's used to
mean a big leap, but it should mean the smallest leap possible.
Who perpetuates this bad story? The issues I see people have with
metaphors sometimes bring me close to losing all belief in mankind.

This should definitely be a FAQ.

The metaphor "quantum leap", applied properly, indicates a
discontinuous jump onto another level, a change with no intermediate
stages, as opposed to a gradual development.

A similar expression that's currently en vogue is "disruptive".
--
... English-speaking people have managed to get along a good many
centuries with the present supply of pronouns; ... It is so old and
venerable an argument ... it's equivalent was used when gas, railways
and steamboats were proposed. -- Findlay (OH) Jeffersonian (1875)
Lewis
2019-11-27 22:14:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@aol.com
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves
to be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
"We are Siamee-ese if you *don't* please..."
Nevertheless, the question is relevant, I assure you. Mathematicians
will delight in telling you (no doubt at some length) about a
particular kind of metric space called a CAT(k) space, which is named
for Cartan, Aleksandrov, and Toponogov. This may (or may not) be the
space required to facilitate the swinging of k cats, or CATs as the
case may be.
So I suppose the underlying question may be whether the cats are
case-sensitive.
Erwin Schrödinger's cat was definitely case-sensitive.
(or maybe not, who can tell?)
For this experiment you'll need a quantum cat.
One that makes quantum leaps?
Must be named Sam.
--
'We'll never make it alive!' CORRECT. --Small Gods
charles
2019-11-26 18:13:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
Well they have a lot more tails than Manx cats.
And anyway, did you ever know any cats who didn't suppose themselves to
be of unquestionable imperial lineage - and showed it?
Imperial? Once upon a time, cats were worshipped as Gods. cats have not
forgotten that.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Lewis
2019-11-26 15:48:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
All cats are Imperial, just ask them.
--
Don't just *do* something: *sit* there!
b***@aol.com
2019-11-26 16:07:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 10:54:41 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Tue, 26 Nov 2019 09:11:04 GMT, Athel Cornish-Bowden
<snip>
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
I seem to recall someone here
being shocked at the expression about swinging a cat, and refusing to
be convinced that no actual cat was involved.
It's standard procedure when assessing room sizes.
Yes, but PTD thinks it involves cruelty to cats.
It helps both the assessor and the cat to establish the size of
territory; it helps the cat, in other words. Do they do it differently in
some parts of the US?
Are these metric cats or Imperial cats?
All cats are Imperial, just ask them.
I've heard of one with seven-league boots, though.
Post by Lewis
--
Don't just *do* something: *sit* there!
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-25 20:52:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:15:18 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for past
participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well known in
the U.S. too.
What? The proper form is "my dog got run over". The less literate
version is "my dog done got run over".
IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD.

That sort of aspectual "done" is geographically and probably socially
highly restricted.
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-25 21:51:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:15:18 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for past
participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well known in
the U.S. too.
What? The proper form is "my dog got run over".
Yes.
Post by Tony Cooper
The less literate version is "my dog done got run over".
That's one less literate version. "Got ran over" has been used in
Florida.


"'A baby just got ran over:' 911 call released in hit-and-run that
killed child

"DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. – A witness's blood-curdling screams [snip]"

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/2019/07/22/a-baby-just-got-ran-over-911-call-released-in-hit-and-run-that-killed-child/


"'One of my sisters and my brother got hit by a broken two-by-four,
and the other one got ran over,' Wyatt Barber said."

https://www.wftv.com/news/local/four-children-injured-after-car-drives-through-fence-onto-beach-in-ormond-beach/932436022


"I was walking out to my car when I almost got ran over."

https://www.apartmentratings.com/fl/orlando/advenir-at-polos-east-apartments_407382044532828/review-179682/
--
Jerry Friedman
CDB
2019-11-26 14:21:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for
past participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are
well known in the U.S. too.
What? The proper form is "my dog got run over".
Yes.
Post by Tony Cooper
The less literate version is "my dog done got run over".
That's one less literate version. "Got ran over" has been used in
Florida.
"'A baby just got ran over:' 911 call released in hit-and-run that
killed child
"DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. – A witness's blood-curdling screams [snip]"
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/2019/07/22/a-baby-just-got-ran-over-911-call-released-in-hit-and-run-that-killed-child/
"'One of my sisters and my brother got hit by a broken two-by-four,
Post by Jerry Friedman
and the other one got ran over,' Wyatt Barber said."
https://www.wftv.com/news/local/four-children-injured-after-car-drives-through-fence-onto-beach-in-ormond-beach/932436022
"I was walking out to my car when I almost got ran over."
Post by Jerry Friedman
https://www.apartmentratings.com/fl/orlando/advenir-at-polos-east-apartments_407382044532828/review-179682/
I'm
pretty sure I've heard "runned over" in that context.
--
Mah baby done lef me.


Richard Heathfield
2019-11-25 22:10:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 07:15:18 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for past
participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well known in
the U.S. too.
What? The proper form is "my dog got run over". The less literate
version is "my dog done got run over".
"Proper form" I wouldn't know about; but I'd say "my dog was run over",
were it not for the fact that I have never owned a dog.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Janet
2019-11-25 21:58:46 UTC
Permalink
In article <qrgnln$1gi$***@news.albasani.net>, ***@yahoo.com
says...
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for past
participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well known in
the U.S. too.
You should of wrote that like wot I done.

Janet
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-25 22:07:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for past
participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well known in
the U.S. too.
You should of wrote that like wot I done.
I thunk about writing "should of".
--
Jerry Friedman
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-25 22:21:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for past
participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well known in
the U.S. too.
You should of wrote that like wot I done.
Praps e weren't drug up proper.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-11-26 10:51:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Heathfield
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound,
Charing Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their
heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try
and be a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleas
hes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-
train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know
I thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know
whether you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for
past participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well
known in the U.S. too.
You should of wrote that like wot I done.
Praps e weren't drug up proper.
I fink it's grate that all us edchoocated tipes R hear to tel furriners
about how to spel inglish proper.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Paul Carmichael
2019-11-26 11:10:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
[Both from
https://www.dailyfail.co.uk/news/article-7715389/Moment-man-unleashes-torrent-anti-Semitic-abuse-Jewish-family-aboard-Northern-Line-train.html ]
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
Thanks. The latter two and the reverse, with the past tense for past
participle (you should have went, my dog got ran over) are well known in
the U.S. too.
You should of wrote that like wot I done.
Reminded me of this:


--
Paul.

https://paulc.es
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-25 14:20:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Madhu
"In the video, two passengers are sat down on the south-bound, Charing
Cross-branch train wearing kippot on the crowns of their heads."
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
I've never come across this use of sat. I'd expect to see "two
passengers sit down" and "I sat between". But since I never know I
thought I'd ask here if it was really that unusual
Very British. I've never heard it in the U.S. I don't know whether
you'd hear it everywhere in Britain.
You would hear it in all parts of Britain, as a marker of education
and social class origin, along with terms like I seen it, he done it.
Those two, however, are common in AmE.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-26 13:21:21 UTC
Permalink
Shakespeare, of Charlotte Street, Brighton, had been drinking with two
friends Theresa and Lisa at the Modern World bar on Madeira Drive, with
the little girl sat next to them except when she briefly got up to play
with the bar owner Neil’s Staffie, the court heard.
https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/11/25/scouser-charged-with-being-drunk-in-charge-of-a-child-after-police-mistook-his-accent-for-slurring/?fbclid=IwAR0B9yFdDEjvqdaHoRk8mVV_4aAi6UQBw1tJmWoen3e2lmaz3Zxp5soEyVw
--
athel
CDB
2019-11-26 16:24:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Shakespeare, of Charlotte Street, Brighton, had been drinking with
two friends Theresa and Lisa at the Modern World bar on Madeira
Drive, with the little girl sat next to them except when she
briefly got up to play with the bar owner Neil’s Staffie, the court
heard.
https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/11/25/scouser-charged-with-being-drunk-in-charge-of-a-child-after-police-mistook-his-accent-for-slurring/?fbclid=IwAR0B9yFdDEjvqdaHoRk8mVV_4aAi6UQBw1tJmWoen3e2lmaz3Zxp5soEyVw
I liked the stream-of-consciousness effect of “I wouldn’t put a child in
harm’s way in any shape or form.”
Sam Plusnet
2019-11-26 18:59:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Shakespeare, of Charlotte Street, Brighton, had been drinking with two
friends Theresa and Lisa at the Modern World bar on Madeira Drive,
with the little girl sat next to them except when she briefly got up
to play with the bar owner Neil’s Staffie, the court heard.
https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/11/25/scouser-charged-with-being-drunk-in-charge-of-a-child-after-police-mistook-his-accent-for-slurring/?fbclid=IwAR0B9yFdDEjvqdaHoRk8mVV_4aAi6UQBw1tJmWoen3e2lmaz3Zxp5soEyVw
Having read "scouse accent", I assumed they were referring to New
Brighton - and was surprised that they couldn't handle a Liverpool
accent on the other side of the Mersey.
--
Sam Plusnet
Joy Beeson
2019-11-27 00:44:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madhu
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
To me, that sentence very clearly stated that someone made Mr. Atkins
sit there to be a barrier.
--
Joy Beeson, U.S.A., mostly central Hoosier,
some Northern Indiana, Upstate New York, Florida, and Hawaii
joy beeson at comcast dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web
forum.
Peter Moylan
2019-11-27 03:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Madhu
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try
and be a bit of a barrier."
To me, that sentence very clearly stated that someone made Mr.
Atkins sit there to be a barrier.
Yes. A situation where we linguistic conservatives would have said "set"
rather than "sat".

But I can see how this change is happening, even though this particular
one has not yet been spotted in Australia (as far as I know). English
used to have a number of intransitive/transitive pairs of verbs like
sit/set, but there aren't many of them left. (In fact, at the moment I'm
having trouble thinking of the others.) This kind of grammatical
inflection is disappearing from the language.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-27 15:09:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Madhu
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try
and be a bit of a barrier."
To me, that sentence very clearly stated that someone made Mr.
Atkins sit there to be a barrier.
Yes. A situation where we linguistic conservatives would have said "set"
rather than "sat".
But I can see how this change is happening, even though this particular
one has not yet been spotted in Australia (as far as I know). English
used to have a number of intransitive/transitive pairs of verbs like
sit/set, but there aren't many of them left. (In fact, at the moment I'm
having trouble thinking of the others.) This kind of grammatical
inflection is disappearing from the language.
lie/lay is the most troublesome.

(The trouble with minor patterns is that you can never think of the
examples when you need them.)
Peter Young
2019-11-27 15:51:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Madhu
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try
and be a bit of a barrier."
To me, that sentence very clearly stated that someone made Mr.
Atkins sit there to be a barrier.
Yes. A situation where we linguistic conservatives would have said "set"
rather than "sat".
But I can see how this change is happening, even though this particular
one has not yet been spotted in Australia (as far as I know). English
used to have a number of intransitive/transitive pairs of verbs like
sit/set, but there aren't many of them left. (In fact, at the moment I'm
having trouble thinking of the others.) This kind of grammatical
inflection is disappearing from the language.
lie/lay is the most troublesome.
(The trouble with minor patterns is that you can never think of the
examples when you need them.)
I might, when younger, to wish to lie down and have a good lay.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Hg)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-11-27 17:01:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Madhu
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try
and be a bit of a barrier."
To me, that sentence very clearly stated that someone made Mr.
Atkins sit there to be a barrier.
Yes. A situation where we linguistic conservatives would have said
"set" rather than "sat".
But I can see how this change is happening, even though this
particular one has not yet been spotted in Australia (as far as I
know). English used to have a number of intransitive/transitive
pairs of verbs like sit/set, but there aren't many of them left. (In
fact, at the moment I'm having trouble thinking of the others.) This
kind of grammatical inflection is disappearing from the language.
lie/lay is the most troublesome.
(The trouble with minor patterns is that you can never think of the
examples when you need them.)
I might, when younger, to wish to lie down and have a good lay.
On the internet no-one knows you're a chicken.

Sorry for that paltry remark.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-27 18:25:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Moylan
Yes. A situation where we linguistic conservatives would have said "set"
rather than "sat".
But I can see how this change is happening, even though this particular
one has not yet been spotted in Australia (as far as I know). English
used to have a number of intransitive/transitive pairs of verbs like
sit/set, but there aren't many of them left. (In fact, at the moment I'm
having trouble thinking of the others.) This kind of grammatical
inflection is disappearing from the language.
lie/lay is the most troublesome.
(The trouble with minor patterns is that you can never think of the
examples when you need them.)
I might, when younger, to wish to lie down and have a good lay.
Several of Tolkien's have been published posthumously.
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-27 19:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Madhu
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try
and be a bit of a barrier."
To me, that sentence very clearly stated that someone made Mr.
Atkins sit there to be a barrier.
Yes. A situation where we linguistic conservatives would have said "set"
rather than "sat".
But I can see how this change is happening, even though this particular
one has not yet been spotted in Australia (as far as I know). English
used to have a number of intransitive/transitive pairs of verbs like
sit/set, but there aren't many of them left. (In fact, at the moment I'm
having trouble thinking of the others.)
Drink/drench and fall/fell haven't been mentioned yet. The first pair
parted company a long time ago, and the WWW can tell you all about "how
to fall a tree".
Post by Peter Moylan
This kind of grammatical
inflection is disappearing from the language.
--
Jerry Friedman
b***@aol.com
2019-11-27 19:38:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Madhu
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try
and be a bit of a barrier."
To me, that sentence very clearly stated that someone made Mr.
Atkins sit there to be a barrier.
Yes. A situation where we linguistic conservatives would have said "set"
rather than "sat".
But I can see how this change is happening, even though this particular
one has not yet been spotted in Australia (as far as I know). English
used to have a number of intransitive/transitive pairs of verbs like
sit/set, but there aren't many of them left. (In fact, at the moment I'm
having trouble thinking of the others.)
Drink/drench and fall/fell haven't been mentioned yet. The first pair
parted company a long time ago, and the WWW can tell you all about "how
to fall a tree".
Or "sweat the assets".
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
This kind of grammatical
inflection is disappearing from the language.
--
Jerry Friedman
CDB
2019-11-27 20:34:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Madhu
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to
try and be a bit of a barrier."
To me, that sentence very clearly stated that someone made Mr.
Atkins sit there to be a barrier.
Yes. A situation where we linguistic conservatives would have said
"set" rather than "sat".
But I can see how this change is happening, even though this
particular one has not yet been spotted in Australia (as far as I
know). English used to have a number of intransitive/transitive
pairs of verbs like sit/set, but there aren't many of them left.
(In fact, at the moment I'm having trouble thinking of the
others.)
Drink/drench and fall/fell haven't been mentioned yet. The first
pair parted company a long time ago, and the WWW can tell you all
about "how to fall a tree".
Raising that gets a rise out of me.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
This kind of grammatical inflection is disappearing from the
language.
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-27 21:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Madhu
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to
try and be a bit of a barrier."
To me, that sentence very clearly stated that someone made Mr.
Atkins sit there to be a barrier.
Yes. A situation where we linguistic conservatives would have said
"set" rather than "sat".
But I can see how this change is happening, even though this
particular one has not yet been spotted in Australia (as far as I
know). English used to have a number of intransitive/transitive
pairs of verbs like sit/set, but there aren't many of them left.
(In fact, at the moment I'm having trouble thinking of the
others.)
Drink/drench and fall/fell haven't been mentioned yet. The first
pair parted company a long time ago, and the WWW can tell you all
about "how to fall a tree".
Raising that gets a rise out of me.
Ah, yes, that's the other one. And again a lot of people use
"raise" for "rise".
--
Jerry Friedman
Lewis
2019-11-27 22:39:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by CDB
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Madhu
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to
try and be a bit of a barrier."
To me, that sentence very clearly stated that someone made Mr.
Atkins sit there to be a barrier.
Yes. A situation where we linguistic conservatives would have said
"set" rather than "sat".
But I can see how this change is happening, even though this
particular one has not yet been spotted in Australia (as far as I
know). English used to have a number of intransitive/transitive
pairs of verbs like sit/set, but there aren't many of them left.
(In fact, at the moment I'm having trouble thinking of the
others.)
Drink/drench and fall/fell haven't been mentioned yet. The first
pair parted company a long time ago, and the WWW can tell you all
about "how to fall a tree".
Raising that gets a rise out of me.
Ah, yes, that's the other one. And again a lot of people use
"raise" for "rise".
And versa vice, as in the BrE use of rise to mean a pay raise.
--
On a scale of one to ten, it sucked.
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-27 06:31:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Madhu
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
To me, that sentence very clearly stated that someone made Mr. Atkins
sit there to be a barrier.
That's logical, but it's not usually the reason that expression is used.
--
athel
Ken Blake
2019-11-27 15:46:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Madhu
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
To me, that sentence very clearly stated that someone made Mr. Atkins
sit there to be a barrier.
If it were me saying that, I would say "I was seated ..."

As written, that sentence doesn't say anything that's very clear to me.
--
Ken
Lewis
2019-11-27 22:32:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by Madhu
"Mr Atkins said: 'I was sat between the guy and the family to try and be
a bit of a barrier."
To me, that sentence very clearly stated that someone made Mr. Atkins
sit there to be a barrier.
If it were me saying that, I would say "I was seated ..."
So would I, probably, but "seated" and "sat" are both past tense of sit
and either is correct in this case.
Post by Ken Blake
As written, that sentence doesn't say anything that's very clear to me.
It means exactly the same as "I was seated" although "I was sat" more
explicitly implies that someone else decided where Mr Atkins was to sit.
--
'And I promise you this,' he [Carrot] shouted, 'if we succeed, no-one
will remember. And if we fail, no one will forget!'
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