Discussion:
Verbing nouns and adjectives
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Spains Harden
2020-02-04 22:40:51 UTC
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I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
David Kleinecke
2020-02-04 23:51:48 UTC
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Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
I've taken the position that in English a word is not a part of
speech but rather it is a root that can be used nominally, verbally
or adjectively. If there were a root that couldn't be used in all
three ways I would look for a semantic cause. Note that these usages
are not always repetitions - morphology and even suppletion are
possible.

For example; destroy, destruction, destructive
RH Draney
2020-02-05 07:52:05 UTC
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Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
What, in your view, is the difference between a noun that has been
converted to an adjective and a noun used attributively?...r
Spains Harden
2020-02-05 10:28:24 UTC
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Post by RH Draney
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
What, in your view, is the difference between a noun that has been
converted to an adjective and a noun used attributively?...r
"Attribute" is a word that (to me) transcends notions of noun
and adjective.

I suppose in "a thick wall" the word "thick" is an adjective
because you can't easily have "a thick"; you can however have
"a brick" so that in "a brick wall" the word "brick" is probably
a noun.

In wall.thick and wall.brick computer-speak both are attributes.

In "He built a thin wall and I built a thick" the word "thick"
is a noun.
Peter T. Daniels
2020-02-05 15:31:06 UTC
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Post by Spains Harden
In "He built a thin wall and I built a thick" the word "thick"
is a noun.
No.

He built a stone wall and I built a brick

might be ambiguous between erecting a wall made of bricks (adj.) and
forming a rectangular object of red clay (n.) -- unlikely but possible.
Quinn C
2020-02-05 23:13:22 UTC
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Post by Spains Harden
Post by RH Draney
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
What, in your view, is the difference between a noun that has been
converted to an adjective and a noun used attributively?...r
"Attribute" is a word that (to me) transcends notions of noun
and adjective.
Yes. Now that we clarified that, can we address the question? <g>
Post by Spains Harden
I suppose in "a thick wall" the word "thick" is an adjective
because you can't easily have "a thick"; you can however have
"a brick" so that in "a brick wall" the word "brick" is probably
a noun.
That's not a good argument, because saying "a thick" takes the word
"thick" out of the given context, where it's an attribute.

A classic test would go in the other direction: you can say "a thicker
wall" but not "a bricker wall", and "a surprisingly thick wall", but not
"a surprisingly brick wall", which suggests that "brick" is still a noun
even in context. It's better to have multiple such tests to be sure -
e.g. "surprisingly" can't modify just any adjective, either
(*suprisingly municipal library).
--
If someone has a penis (or we think they have a penis) we use
he/him/his pronouns and treat them like a boy/man. If someone
has a vagina (or we think they have a vagina) we use she/her/
hers pronouns and treat them like a girl/woman.
See what I did there? -- Kyl Myers
Janet
2020-02-06 17:22:30 UTC
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Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?


Janet
Mark Brader
2020-02-06 20:45:11 UTC
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Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
Tell that all to the cyclists who get doored on our streets.
--
Mark Brader "The worst things may happen, including a program
Toronto that works fine on your computer but crashes
***@vex.net on your customer's machine." -- Dan Pop
RH Draney
2020-02-07 09:20:20 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
Tell that all to the cyclists who get doored on our streets.
Don't bother...cyclists don't listen to anything they're told....r
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-02-07 09:49:32 UTC
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Permalink
Post by RH Draney
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
Tell that all to the cyclists who get doored on our streets.
Around here pedestrians get cyclisted much more often than cyclists get doored.
Post by RH Draney
Don't bother...cyclists don't listen to anything they're told....r
Nor do they pay any attention to traffic lights, no matter what Adam says.
--
athel
Sam Plusnet
2020-02-07 19:53:26 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by RH Draney
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
Tell that all to the cyclists who get doored on our streets.
Around here pedestrians get cyclisted much more often than cyclists get doored.
Post by RH Draney
Don't bother...cyclists don't listen to anything they're told....r
Nor do they pay any attention to traffic lights, no matter what Adam says.
That's a bit unfair.
Why single out the traffic light, when are lots of things that cyclists
ignore?
--
Sam Plusnet
b***@shaw.ca
2020-02-07 22:42:14 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by RH Draney
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
Tell that all to the cyclists who get doored on our streets.
Around here pedestrians get cyclisted much more often than cyclists get doored.
Post by RH Draney
Don't bother...cyclists don't listen to anything they're told....r
Nor do they pay any attention to traffic lights, no matter what Adam says.
That's a bit unfair.
Why single out the traffic light, when are lots of things that cyclists
ignore?
I don't know why I bother, but I'll defend the cyclists again.

Cyclists in Vancouver were extremely bad-mannered until two or three
decades ago. Most people didn't cycle and those who did were
mostly corporate messengers downtown, who blew through red lights,
rode on sidewalks and endangered pedestrians.

That has all changed. The corporate messengers have been replaced
by email with attachments. The city has built a reasonable network
of dedicated bicycle paths. A lot of people now cycle to work
along those paths. They are well-behaved and only the odd one
jumps red lights any more. Most of the conflicts between
motorists and cyclists have disappeared, mainly due to the
bicycle paths, which are used not only by commuters but
by families with young children and oldsters like me,
in near-complete safety.

If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things
will get better for everyone.

bill
Tony Cooper
2020-02-08 00:41:54 UTC
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Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by RH Draney
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
Tell that all to the cyclists who get doored on our streets.
Around here pedestrians get cyclisted much more often than cyclists get doored.
Post by RH Draney
Don't bother...cyclists don't listen to anything they're told....r
Nor do they pay any attention to traffic lights, no matter what Adam says.
That's a bit unfair.
Why single out the traffic light, when are lots of things that cyclists
ignore?
I don't know why I bother, but I'll defend the cyclists again.
Cyclists in Vancouver were extremely bad-mannered until two or three
decades ago. Most people didn't cycle and those who did were
mostly corporate messengers downtown, who blew through red lights,
rode on sidewalks and endangered pedestrians.
That has all changed. The corporate messengers have been replaced
by email with attachments. The city has built a reasonable network
of dedicated bicycle paths. A lot of people now cycle to work
along those paths. They are well-behaved and only the odd one
jumps red lights any more. Most of the conflicts between
motorists and cyclists have disappeared, mainly due to the
bicycle paths, which are used not only by commuters but
by families with young children and oldsters like me,
in near-complete safety.
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things
will get better for everyone.
Downtown Orlando - such as it is - has a lot of bicycle traffic. No
longer the messengers that used to bike documents from one lawyer or
bank to another, but food delivery. One sub shop I know of has at
least six or eight bicycle delivery people shooting in and out of
traffic.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
RH Draney
2020-02-08 06:48:14 UTC
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Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things
will get better for everyone.
Then try to convince the cyclists to use them....r
b***@shaw.ca
2020-02-08 06:58:05 UTC
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Post by RH Draney
Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things
will get better for everyone.
Then try to convince the cyclists to use them....r
Well, they built them here, and the cyclists are using them.
That took no convincing at all. The difficult part was for
the cyclists to convince the city that building the bicycle
paths would be a good thing.

I don't commute any more, being retired and all, but I'm
still a fair-weather cyclist, and the fair weather is
drawing near.

bill, yeah, it's still raining in Vancouver. But soon...
Peter Moylan
2020-02-08 08:17:10 UTC
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Permalink
Post by RH Draney
Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things will get
better for everyone.
Then try to convince the cyclists to use them....r
That's never been a problem around here. The cyclists were the ones
lobbying the city for off-road cycle paths.

The main problem we have is that these are almost all shared paths, for
cyclists and pedestrians. Neither group has been good at sharing. Many
pedestrian groups spread themselves across the path so that there's no
room for cyclists (or faster pedestrians) to pass, in either direction.
They don't consider that the "keep to the left" signs apply to them.

The cyclists fall into two groups. Many of them are considerate to other
path users. Unfortunately there's a bunch of lycra-clad speed freaks who
aren't. They expect pedestrians to jump off the track into the bushes as
they approach, and will swear at elderly people who don't move fast
enough. If two of them are going in opposite directions, a collision is
likely.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
b***@shaw.ca
2020-02-08 19:40:25 UTC
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Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things
will get better for everyone.
Where did they find the space in the urban landscape to add dedicated
infrastructure like that?
Vancouver has a lot of waterfront; the downtown peninsula has water on
three sides. Some of the bicycle paths were built on the shorelines on
public land, often with a separate pedestrian path alongside.

Away from the water, in some cases quiet residential streets
were designated as bicycle routes, usually with marked bicycle
paths. On busier streets, especially downtown, a traffic lane
was turned into two-way, separated bike paths. Predictions
that traffic would get worse and that shoppers would not be able
to get to their shops were not borne out.

One nifty piece of design, especially downtown, had the curb lane
on one side turned into bicycle paths, buffered by a concrete strip
with planters on it. Here's an example:

<Loading Image...>

bill
Tony Cooper
2020-02-08 21:22:57 UTC
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Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things
will get better for everyone.
Where did they find the space in the urban landscape to add dedicated
infrastructure like that?
Vancouver has a lot of waterfront; the downtown peninsula has water on
three sides. Some of the bicycle paths were built on the shorelines on
public land, often with a separate pedestrian path alongside.
Away from the water, in some cases quiet residential streets
were designated as bicycle routes, usually with marked bicycle
paths. On busier streets, especially downtown, a traffic lane
was turned into two-way, separated bike paths. Predictions
that traffic would get worse and that shoppers would not be able
to get to their shops were not borne out.
One nifty piece of design, especially downtown, had the curb lane
on one side turned into bicycle paths, buffered by a concrete strip
<https://momentummag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/5862685992_ec62a2c626_b.jpg>
Orlando has a lot of streets with a bicycle lane curbside. They are
just marked with a white line of paint, though. They don't offer much
in the way of safety for either bicycle riders or motorists since both
tend to veer out of their assigned lanes.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter Moylan
2020-02-09 00:01:36 UTC
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Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things will
get better for everyone.
Where did they find the space in the urban landscape to add
dedicated infrastructure like that?
Vancouver has a lot of waterfront; the downtown peninsula has water
on three sides. Some of the bicycle paths were built on the
shorelines on public land, often with a separate pedestrian path
alongside.
My previous home was in a relatively new suburb, where paths had been
built in from the outset. Mostly those were intended for pedestrians,
but cyclists could use them too. There were paths in all the obvious
places, e.g. alongside a waterway, and around the edge of the suburb
where it bordered a wetland area. But there were also paths in
non-obvious places. When walking around the suburb, you could walk into
just about any cul-de-sac (of which there were many) with confidence
that there would be a pedestrian path taking you into the next block.

It was a pleasant place in many ways, and I probably would have stayed
there had I remained single. On the other hand, I didn't take well to
the people there. There seemed to be an unusually high number of bogans
(q.v.).
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2020-02-09 16:17:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 11:01:36 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things will
get better for everyone.
Where did they find the space in the urban landscape to add
dedicated infrastructure like that?
Vancouver has a lot of waterfront; the downtown peninsula has water
on three sides. Some of the bicycle paths were built on the
shorelines on public land, often with a separate pedestrian path
alongside.
My previous home was in a relatively new suburb, where paths had been
built in from the outset. Mostly those were intended for pedestrians,
but cyclists could use them too. There were paths in all the obvious
places, e.g. alongside a waterway, and around the edge of the suburb
where it bordered a wetland area. But there were also paths in
non-obvious places. When walking around the suburb, you could walk into
just about any cul-de-sac (of which there were many) with confidence
that there would be a pedestrian path taking you into the next block.
It was a pleasant place in many ways, and I probably would have stayed
there had I remained single. On the other hand, I didn't take well to
the people there. There seemed to be an unusually high number of bogans
(q.v.).
Presumably those would be bogans in the Australian and New Zealand
sense, rather than the Canadian version.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/bogan
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter Moylan
2020-02-10 01:30:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 9 Feb 2020 11:01:36 +1100, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
It was a pleasant place in many ways, and I probably would have stayed
there had I remained single. On the other hand, I didn't take well to
the people there. There seemed to be an unusually high number of bogans
(q.v.).
Presumably those would be bogans in the Australian and New Zealand
sense, rather than the Canadian version.
https://www.lexico.com/definition/bogan
Thanks. I was unaware of the Canadian meaning.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
2020-02-09 00:16:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things
will get better for everyone.
Where did they find the space in the urban landscape to add dedicated
infrastructure like that?
Vancouver has a lot of waterfront; the downtown peninsula has water on
three sides. Some of the bicycle paths were built on the shorelines on
public land, often with a separate pedestrian path alongside.
How close can that get them to their destinations?
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Away from the water, in some cases quiet residential streets
were designated as bicycle routes, usually with marked bicycle
paths. On busier streets, especially downtown, a traffic lane
was turned into two-way, separated bike paths. Predictions
that traffic would get worse and that shoppers would not be able
to get to their shops were not borne out.
I find that rather hard to believe .... Also, you must have awfully
wide traffic lanes if they can be divided into two lanes for opposing
bicycle traffic.
Post by b***@shaw.ca
One nifty piece of design, especially downtown, had the curb lane
on one side turned into bicycle paths, buffered by a concrete strip
<https://momentummag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/5862685992_ec62a2c626_b.jpg>
A few of Manhattan's avenues have that, but the bike lane is still
one-way the same direction as the car traffic.

Dozens of parking spaces are planned to be eliminated from Central
Park West in order to add a bicycle lane. Upper West Side residents
are not pleased.
b***@shaw.ca
2020-02-09 02:21:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things
will get better for everyone.
Where did they find the space in the urban landscape to add dedicated
infrastructure like that?
Vancouver has a lot of waterfront; the downtown peninsula has water on
three sides. Some of the bicycle paths were built on the shorelines on
public land, often with a separate pedestrian path alongside.
How close can that get them to their destinations?
It varies. When I was bicycling to work, I had a safe four-block
trip though light traffic to the waterfront, and from there it was
bike path all the way to the newspaper office.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Away from the water, in some cases quiet residential streets
were designated as bicycle routes, usually with marked bicycle
paths. On busier streets, especially downtown, a traffic lane
was turned into two-way, separated bike paths. Predictions
that traffic would get worse and that shoppers would not be able
to get to their shops were not borne out.
I find that rather hard to believe
So did all the people who complained that the world would end if
those bicycle paths were built. It didn't, and there was little
to no inconvenience.

.... Also, you must have awfully
Post by Peter T. Daniels
wide traffic lanes if they can be divided into two lanes for opposing
bicycle traffic.
See the picture linked to below. Your comment indicates you've already
seen it. Two-way bike lanes, within a former car lane.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
One nifty piece of design, especially downtown, had the curb lane
on one side turned into bicycle paths, buffered by a concrete strip
<https://momentummag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/5862685992_ec62a2c626_b.jpg>
A few of Manhattan's avenues have that, but the bike lane is still
one-way the same direction as the car traffic.
Dozens of parking spaces are planned to be eliminated from Central
Park West in order to add a bicycle lane. Upper West Side residents
are not pleased.
Sounds typical. Remember that one effect of a bike path that people
use is less motorized traffic on the streets, making space for
those who still need to drive. Vancouver's Burrard Bridge sees 3,100
bike trips a day or 1.3 million a year, which makes it the busiest
bike route in North America, or was a couple of years ago.

bill
Peter T. Daniels
2020-02-09 14:52:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things
will get better for everyone.
Where did they find the space in the urban landscape to add dedicated
infrastructure like that?
Vancouver has a lot of waterfront; the downtown peninsula has water on
three sides. Some of the bicycle paths were built on the shorelines on
public land, often with a separate pedestrian path alongside.
How close can that get them to their destinations?
It varies. When I was bicycling to work, I had a safe four-block
trip though light traffic to the waterfront, and from there it was
bike path all the way to the newspaper office.
Is your downtown as compressed as Manhattan's? Though the streets
presumably didn't originate as cowpaths like ours, but are a rational
grid. Many of the downtown streets barely accommodate a single car.
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Away from the water, in some cases quiet residential streets
were designated as bicycle routes, usually with marked bicycle
paths. On busier streets, especially downtown, a traffic lane
was turned into two-way, separated bike paths. Predictions
that traffic would get worse and that shoppers would not be able
to get to their shops were not borne out.
I find that rather hard to believe
So did all the people who complained that the world would end if
those bicycle paths were built. It didn't, and there was little
to no inconvenience.
.... Also, you must have awfully
Post by Peter T. Daniels
wide traffic lanes if they can be divided into two lanes for opposing
bicycle traffic.
See the picture linked to below. Your comment indicates you've already
seen it. Two-way bike lanes, within a former car lane.
I hadn't. You must have had boulevards wider than Paris's, since there
appear to be automobile traffic in two directions, AND a barrier, AMD
bicycle traffic in two directions, AND a bike share stand, all between
the sidewalk curbs.
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
One nifty piece of design, especially downtown, had the curb lane
on one side turned into bicycle paths, buffered by a concrete strip
<https://momentummag.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/5862685992_ec62a2c626_b.jpg>
A few of Manhattan's avenues have that, but the bike lane is still
one-way the same direction as the car traffic.
Dozens of parking spaces are planned to be eliminated from Central
Park West in order to add a bicycle lane. Upper West Side residents
are not pleased.
Sounds typical. Remember that one effect of a bike path that people
use is less motorized traffic on the streets, making space for
those who still need to drive. Vancouver's Burrard Bridge sees 3,100
bike trips a day or 1.3 million a year, which makes it the busiest
bike route in North America, or was a couple of years ago.
The few New Yorkers who own cars have few places to park them. There was
no such thing as a garage when the town houses were built on the side
streets and the apartment buildings were built on the avenues; and the
concept of service alley didn't exist when the street plan was drawn up
in 1811.

By far the most automobile traffic in Manhattan used to be taxicabs and
is now the ripoff artists of Uber and Lyft, and congestion grows worse
and worse. "Congestion pricing" is coming in in a year or so, and we'll
find out how much of a mess that will create, especially at the edges
of the pay zone.
b***@shaw.ca
2020-02-09 20:33:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things
will get better for everyone.
Where did they find the space in the urban landscape to add dedicated
infrastructure like that?
Vancouver has a lot of waterfront; the downtown peninsula has water on
three sides. Some of the bicycle paths were built on the shorelines on
public land, often with a separate pedestrian path alongside.
How close can that get them to their destinations?
It varies. When I was bicycling to work, I had a safe four-block
trip though light traffic to the waterfront, and from there it was
bike path all the way to the newspaper office.
Is your downtown as compressed as Manhattan's? Though the streets
presumably didn't originate as cowpaths like ours, but are a rational
grid. Many of the downtown streets barely accommodate a single car.
Vancouver is a lot younger than New York, and much less compressed.
The entire all-wood-construction downtown burned to the ground
in 1886. The streets built after that were relatively wide;
most downtown streets have four lanes now, and there is enough space when required for bicycle paths, mini-parks, seating areas near food trucks, etc.

(snip)
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
.... Also, you must have awfully
Post by Peter T. Daniels
wide traffic lanes if they can be divided into two lanes for opposing
bicycle traffic.
See the picture linked to below. Your comment indicates you've already
seen it. Two-way bike lanes, within a former car lane.
I hadn't. You must have had boulevards wider than Paris's, since there
appear to be automobile traffic in two directions, AND a barrier, AMD
bicycle traffic in two directions, AND a bike share stand, all between
the sidewalk curbs.
We have nothing as wide as the Champs d'Elysees, but the standard
width for downtown streets is four lanes, and six lanes for major
arteries. So there is space for other uses. It helps that pretty good
public transit over the last 30 to 40 years and more and more people
living downtown have resulted in a steady drop in the amount
of motorized traffic in the downtown area, and downtown Vancouver
is very walkable these days.

(snip)
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The few New Yorkers who own cars have few places to park them. There was
no such thing as a garage when the town houses were built on the side
streets and the apartment buildings were built on the avenues; and the
concept of service alley didn't exist when the street plan was drawn up
in 1811.
I recall that from visiting New York when I lived in Toronto. Again,
Vancouver being a younger city with a downtown that's less than
150 years old has more space, and while parking can be a hassle
in some times and places, it's not a huge problem overall.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
By far the most automobile traffic in Manhattan used to be taxicabs and
is now the ripoff artists of Uber and Lyft, and congestion grows worse
and worse. "Congestion pricing" is coming in in a year or so, and we'll
find out how much of a mess that will create, especially at the edges
of the pay zone.
I've got my fingers crossed about Uber and Lyft, which have just been
granted the right to operate here. It's too early to say what the effect
will be, but right now traffic congestion is a manageable problem.

I should add that where I live, in Vancouver's West End, is a bit
of an urban paradise. It sits between downtown and Stanley Park,
both of which are close enough to walk to, with water (English Bay
and Burrard Inlet) on the other two sides. We have beaches, harbour-side
walking and cycling paths, shopping and restaurant streets within
walking reach and quiet residential streets. Also, trees lining
all but a few streets.

Except for a potential major earthquake every 500 years or so,
which is a risk we don't mind living with, it's a very benign
place to live.

bill
s***@gmail.com
2020-02-11 03:19:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
The few New Yorkers who own cars have few places to park them. There was
no such thing as a garage when the town houses were built on the side
streets and the apartment buildings were built on the avenues; and the
concept of service alley didn't exist when the street plan was drawn up
in 1811.
Their self-driving cars will just head out into the suburbs until needed.

/dps
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-02-09 21:15:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
[Cycle paths v. car lanes]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Away from the water, in some cases quiet residential streets
were designated as bicycle routes, usually with marked bicycle
paths. On busier streets, especially downtown, a traffic lane
was turned into two-way, separated bike paths. Predictions
that traffic would get worse and that shoppers would not be able
to get to their shops were not borne out.
I find that rather hard to believe
I can believe that.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Don P
2020-02-09 21:40:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things
will get better for everyone.
A practical problem is that the idea "cycle path" is not sufficiently
developed to be used by naive politicians or planners. Recently in
Ottawa, Canada:
1. The National Capital Commission paved footpaths along the Ottawa
River are supposed to be used by both pedestrians (at 2 or 3 m.p.h.)
and cyclists (at 8 to 20 m.p.h.) not to mention roller-skaters etc.
2. The Ottawa city council authorized (a) one-way cycle paths on the
most crowded two-way downtown street, ignoring one-way streets that run
parallel one block north and south, (b) a two-way cycle track on at
least one one-way street downtown, where there have already been
accidents because entering drivers watch only upstream for vehicles and
do not expect cyclists to appear fast from the other direction.

I think experienced urban cyclists would have not allowed either
"improvement."
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
b***@shaw.ca
2020-02-09 21:49:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Don P
Post by b***@shaw.ca
If you still have dangerous cyclists where you live, try to
convince local authorities to build bicycle paths. Things
will get better for everyone.
A practical problem is that the idea "cycle path" is not sufficiently
developed to be used by naive politicians or planners. Recently in
1. The National Capital Commission paved footpaths along the Ottawa
River are supposed to be used by both pedestrians (at 2 or 3 m.p.h.)
and cyclists (at 8 to 20 m.p.h.) not to mention roller-skaters etc.
2. The Ottawa city council authorized (a) one-way cycle paths on the
most crowded two-way downtown street, ignoring one-way streets that run
parallel one block north and south, (b) a two-way cycle track on at
least one one-way street downtown, where there have already been
accidents because entering drivers watch only upstream for vehicles and
do not expect cyclists to appear fast from the other direction.
I think experienced urban cyclists would have not allowed either
"improvement."
Right. Bike paths are a good thing, but cities thinking of building
them need input from the local cycling community, and they need
people with appropriate training in their planning departments
to design them. Politicians without those guides will almost
certainly get it wrong.

bill
Joy Beeson
2020-02-09 04:03:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by RH Draney
Don't bother...cyclists don't listen to anything they're told....r
That's because you keep telling us to ride in the door zone, ride in
the oncoming lane, ride straight through in a lane to the right of a
right-turn lane, ride in "protected" paths that would cause us to
materialize in intersections without warning . . .

But it's mostly because we carefully conceal all traffic laws from our
children until they are sixteen, then shove them out into traffic in
lethal weapons after a couple of lectures and a bit of riding around
in a car with three or four other students and an occasional turn at
the wheel.

So people grow up believing that if you are on a bicycle, there *are*
no rules, and it's up to the grown-ups to look out for you.
--
Joy Beeson, U.S.A., mostly central Hoosier,
some Northern Indiana, Upstate New York, Florida, and Hawaii
joy beeson at comcast dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/
The above message is a Usenet post.
Anders D. Nygaard
2020-02-09 16:46:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by RH Draney
Don't bother...cyclists don't listen to anything they're told....r
That's because you keep telling us to ride in the door zone, ride in
the oncoming lane, ride straight through in a lane to the right of a
right-turn lane, ride in "protected" paths that would cause us to
materialize in intersections without warning . . .
But it's mostly because we carefully conceal all traffic laws from our
children until they are sixteen, then shove them out into traffic in
lethal weapons after a couple of lectures and a bit of riding around
in a car with three or four other students and an occasional turn at
the wheel.
So people grow up believing that if you are on a bicycle, there *are*
no rules, and it's up to the grown-ups to look out for you.
In more bike-friendly places, that is not (entirely[1]) so.
One feature of Danish schooling is an offer in all schools of a bicycle
test when in 5th (IIRC) grade (when the pupils are 11-ish), somewhat
comparable to the driving test required for a drivers license.
It may also help that we do not "shove sixteen year olds into traffic
in lethal weapons" - the worst you can get at the tender age of 16 is
a moped which is lethal mostly to the person driving it.

[1] Yes, we also have delivery services on bikes, which routinely and
flagrantly violate regulations. For some reason, nobody seems to care.

/Anders, Denmark.
Adam Funk
2020-02-10 10:02:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Joy Beeson
Post by RH Draney
Don't bother...cyclists don't listen to anything they're told....r
That's because you keep telling us to ride in the door zone, ride in
the oncoming lane, ride straight through in a lane to the right of a
right-turn lane, ride in "protected" paths that would cause us to
materialize in intersections without warning . . .
But it's mostly because we carefully conceal all traffic laws from our
children until they are sixteen, then shove them out into traffic in
lethal weapons after a couple of lectures and a bit of riding around
in a car with three or four other students and an occasional turn at
the wheel.
So people grow up believing that if you are on a bicycle, there *are*
no rules, and it's up to the grown-ups to look out for you.
+1
--
If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to
worry about the answers. ---Thomas Pynchon
Jerry Friedman
2020-02-06 21:10:57 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
"After the first indication that Mrs. Latimer's coffin top had
been reached, the volunteer crew, following the usual archaeological
techniques, began pedestaling and cleaning the burial for complete
exposure."

https://books.google.com/books?id=4r60AAAAIAAJ

The verb "pedestal" also seems to have meanings in cinematography
and human relations.
--
Jerry Friedman
phil
2020-02-06 21:20:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
Janet
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to me
"garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a clove of
garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might well have said
"potato me".

(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that she'd
shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Peter Moylan
2020-02-07 02:01:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by phil
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to me
"garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a clove of
garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might well have said
"potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that she'd
shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Dingbat
2020-02-07 02:29:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to me
"garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a clove of
garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might well have said
"potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that she'd
shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
Exchange between Loren Hardeman I and a maid Roxanne in The Betsy:

LH: You're French, aren't you?
Maid: Yes.
LH: French me.
Peter Moylan
2020-02-07 02:52:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
LH: You're French, aren't you? Maid: Yes. LH: French me.
When my wife was watching The Handmaiden's Tale on TV, it turned out
that I had an incorrect idea of what a handmaiden's job was.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Dingbat
2020-02-07 08:39:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
LH: You're French, aren't you? Maid: Yes. LH: French me.
When my wife was watching The Handmaiden's Tale on TV, it turned out
that I had an incorrect idea of what a handmaiden's job was.
You discovered in the nick of time that it would be a bad idea to
tell your wife that you could use a handmaiden:-)
b***@shaw.ca
2020-02-07 09:14:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
LH: You're French, aren't you? Maid: Yes. LH: French me.
When my wife was watching The Handmaiden's Tale on TV, it turned out
that I had an incorrect idea of what a handmaiden's job was.
You discovered in the nick of time that it would be a bad idea to
tell your wife that you could use a handmaiden:-)
FWIW, it's The Handmaid's Tale, not Handmaiden's.

bill
Dingbat
2020-02-08 10:43:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
LH: You're French, aren't you? Maid: Yes. LH: French me.
When my wife was watching The Handmaiden's Tale on TV, it turned out
that I had an incorrect idea of what a handmaiden's job was.
Could you have guessed from its being inspired by the Canterbury Tales?

Is the Miller in "A Whiter Shade of Pale" an allusion to Chaucer's Miller?
https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/c/the-canterbury-tales/summary-and-analysis/the-millers-prologue-and-tale

"The Canterbury Tales" Was Way Dirtier Than "50 Shades of Grey"
https://www.bustle.com/p/7-times-the-canterbury-tales-was-way-dirtier-than-50-shades-of-grey-66368

Chaucer's bawdry
https://www.worldcat.org/title/chaucers-bawdry-a-study-of-ribald-words-and-situations-in-the-canterbury-tales/oclc/4611300

The Ribald Tales of Canterbury
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089917/
Peter Moylan
2020-02-09 00:13:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
When my wife was watching The Handmaiden's Tale on TV, it turned
out that I had an incorrect idea of what a handmaiden's job was.
Could you have guessed from its being inspired by the Canterbury Tales?
I don't recall a ribald reference to a handmaid in the Canterbury Tales.
Not in that sense, anyway.
Post by Dingbat
Is the Miller in "A Whiter Shade of Pale" an allusion to Chaucer's Miller?
https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/c/the-canterbury-tales/summary-and-analysis/the-millers-prologue-and-tale
Probably.

I was recently told of a new resource to listen to the Canterbury Tales
on-line:

<URL:https://aleteia.org/2020/02/06/free-app-allows-listeners-to-hear-canterbury-tales-in-original-language/>

I was struck by the fact that the spoken version, although it apparently
remained true to Middle English pronunciation, was easier for me to
understand than the written form.

At the same time, I couldn't shake the impression that the reader was
speaking with a Dutch accent.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
2020-02-09 00:20:41 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
I was recently told of a new resource to listen to the Canterbury Tales
<URL:https://aleteia.org/2020/02/06/free-app-allows-listeners-to-hear-canterbury-tales-in-original-language/>
I was struck by the fact that the spoken version, although it apparently
remained true to Middle English pronunciation, was easier for me to
understand than the written form.
That's what David and Ben Crystal report as audience reaction at
"authentic Shakespeare pronunciation" performances -- though those
are two centuries later, after the Great English Vowel Shift had
finished working its magic.
Post by Peter Moylan
At the same time, I couldn't shake the impression that the reader was
speaking with a Dutch accent.
Missing the GEV!
s***@gmail.com
2020-02-11 03:16:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
LH: You're French, aren't you? Maid: Yes. LH: French me.
When my wife was watching The Handmaiden's Tale on TV, it turned out
that I had an incorrect idea of what a handmaiden's job was.
Could you have guessed from its being inspired by the Canterbury Tales?
Is the Miller in "A Whiter Shade of Pale" an allusion to Chaucer's Miller?
https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/c/the-canterbury-tales/summary-and-analysis/the-millers-prologue-and-tale
"The Canterbury Tales" Was Way Dirtier Than "50 Shades of Grey"
https://www.bustle.com/p/7-times-the-canterbury-tales-was-way-dirtier-than-50-shades-of-grey-66368
Chaucer's bawdry
https://www.worldcat.org/title/chaucers-bawdry-a-study-of-ribald-words-and-situations-in-the-canterbury-tales/oclc/4611300
The Ribald Tales of Canterbury
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089917/
In TONG, we have a resident allusionist,
but /Smallville/ and /Lost/ (and a few rock songs) are his favorite stomping grounds.

/dps
s***@gmail.com
2020-02-11 08:15:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by s***@gmail.com
Post by Dingbat
Could you have guessed from its being inspired by the Canterbury Tales?
Is the Miller in "A Whiter Shade of Pale" an allusion to Chaucer's Miller?
https://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/c/the-canterbury-tales/summary-and-analysis/the-millers-prologue-and-tale
"The Canterbury Tales" Was Way Dirtier Than "50 Shades of Grey"
https://www.bustle.com/p/7-times-the-canterbury-tales-was-way-dirtier-than-50-shades-of-grey-66368
Chaucer's bawdry
https://www.worldcat.org/title/chaucers-bawdry-a-study-of-ribald-words-and-situations-in-the-canterbury-tales/oclc/4611300
The Ribald Tales of Canterbury
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089917/
In TONG, we have a resident allusionist,
but /Smallville/ and /Lost/ (and a few rock songs) are his favorite stomping grounds.
Youtube tells me his musical reference is to a non-Lucy show
from Desi Arnaz Productions.
The WP tells me that the composer of the theme
also composed the score to /All the Find Young Cannibals/.

/dps
RH Draney
2020-02-07 09:22:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to me
"garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a clove of
garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might well have said
"potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that she'd
shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
I believe the canonical example is the blue-collar husband who comes
home from his dirty, strenuous job, plops his fat ass down in the
recliner, picks up the television remote control, and calls to his wife:
"beer me!"...r
Peter Moylan
2020-02-07 10:03:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
I believe the canonical example is the blue-collar husband who comes
home from his dirty, strenuous job, plops his fat ass down in the
recliner, picks up the television remote control, and calls to his
wife: "beer me!"...r
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract infection. I'm
going to have to give up Corona beer.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Dingbat
2020-02-07 13:01:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
I believe the canonical example is the blue-collar husband who comes
home from his dirty, strenuous job, plops his fat ass down in the
recliner, picks up the television remote control, and calls to his
wife: "beer me!"...r
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract infection. I'm
going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
Jerry Friedman
2020-02-07 15:08:34 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
I believe the canonical example is the blue-collar husband who comes
home from his dirty, strenuous job, plops his fat ass down in the
recliner, picks up the television remote control, and calls to his
wife: "beer me!"...r
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract infection. I'm
going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
--
Jerry Friedman
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-02-07 16:21:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
I believe the canonical example is the blue-collar husband who comes
home from his dirty, strenuous job, plops his fat ass down in the
recliner, picks up the television remote control, and calls to his
wife: "beer me!"...r
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract infection. I'm
going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
But he needs to be a stout chap and put up with it.
--
athel
Tony Cooper
2020-02-07 17:16:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 17:21:11 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
I believe the canonical example is the blue-collar husband who comes
home from his dirty, strenuous job, plops his fat ass down in the
recliner, picks up the television remote control, and calls to his
wife: "beer me!"...r
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract infection. I'm
going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
But he needs to be a stout chap and put up with it.
Before someone else drafts another follow-up on this, is there any
chance interest will tap out?
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Katy Jennison
2020-02-07 17:29:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 17:21:11 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
I believe the canonical example is the blue-collar husband who comes
home from his dirty, strenuous job, plops his fat ass down in the
recliner, picks up the television remote control, and calls to his
wife: "beer me!"...r
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract infection. I'm
going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
But he needs to be a stout chap and put up with it.
Before someone else drafts another follow-up on this, is there any
chance interest will tap out?
Quit wining, and take it in the spirit it's intended.
--
Katy Jennison
Tony Cooper
2020-02-07 17:34:24 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 17:29:22 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 17:21:11 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
I believe the canonical example is the blue-collar husband who comes
home from his dirty, strenuous job, plops his fat ass down in the
recliner, picks up the television remote control, and calls to his
wife: "beer me!"...r
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract infection. I'm
going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
But he needs to be a stout chap and put up with it.
Before someone else drafts another follow-up on this, is there any
chance interest will tap out?
Quit wining, and take it in the spirit it's intended.
The optics aren't good for the future of this thread.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Janet
2020-02-07 17:37:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
In article <r1k6pj$5kr$***@news.albasani.net>, ***@spamtrap.kjennison.com
says...
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 17:21:11 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
I believe the canonical example is the blue-collar husband who comes
home from his dirty, strenuous job, plops his fat ass down in the
recliner, picks up the television remote control, and calls to his
wife: "beer me!"...r
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract infection. I'm
going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
But he needs to be a stout chap and put up with it.
Before someone else drafts another follow-up on this, is there any
chance interest will tap out?
Quit wining, and take it in the spirit it's intended.
My cup runneth over

Janet
Mack A. Damia
2020-02-07 17:43:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 17:21:11 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
I believe the canonical example is the blue-collar husband who comes
home from his dirty, strenuous job, plops his fat ass down in the
recliner, picks up the television remote control, and calls to his
wife: "beer me!"...r
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract infection. I'm
going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
But he needs to be a stout chap and put up with it.
Before someone else drafts another follow-up on this, is there any
chance interest will tap out?
Quit wining, and take it in the spirit it's intended.
My cup runneth over
Try a different bar.....damn dyslexia, I meant bra.
Katy Jennison
2020-02-07 21:37:16 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mack A. Damia
Post by Janet
says...
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 17:21:11 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
I believe the canonical example is the blue-collar husband who comes
home from his dirty, strenuous job, plops his fat ass down in the
recliner, picks up the television remote control, and calls to his
wife: "beer me!"...r
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract infection. I'm
going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
But he needs to be a stout chap and put up with it.
Before someone else drafts another follow-up on this, is there any
chance interest will tap out?
Quit wining, and take it in the spirit it's intended.
My cup runneth over
Try a different bar.....damn dyslexia, I meant bra.
Oh dear, that probably shouldn't have made me laugh out loud, but it did.
--
Katy Jennison
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-02-07 20:10:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 17:21:11 +0100, Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
I believe the canonical example is the blue-collar husband who comes
home from his dirty, strenuous job, plops his fat ass down in the
recliner, picks up the television remote control, and calls to his
wife: "beer me!"...r
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract infection. I'm
going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
But he needs to be a stout chap and put up with it.
Before someone else drafts another follow-up on this, is there any
chance interest will tap out?
I'd feel quite bitter if it were, but I'll try to take it mildly.
--
athel
Peter Moylan
2020-02-08 02:09:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract
infection. I'm going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
I tried wine last night. It was a waste of good wine, because I couldn't
taste it.

Many years ago, my GP suggested a cold remedy made with hot water,
aspirin, lemon juice, and rum. He explained that it wouldn't cure
anything, but it would make me stop caring.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Dingbat
2020-02-08 03:32:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract
infection. I'm going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
I tried wine last night. It was a waste of good wine, because I
couldn't taste it.
I once read that people who served wine to Chinese who were not well
up on wine drinking techniques found it a waste because they drank
it like juice.
Post by Peter Moylan
Many years ago, my GP suggested a cold remedy made with hot water,
aspirin, lemon juice, and rum. He explained that it wouldn't cure
anything, but it would make me stop caring.
It wouldn't make you a goog either.
Peter Moylan
2020-02-08 04:10:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Many years ago, my GP suggested a cold remedy made with hot water,
aspirin, lemon juice, and rum. He explained that it wouldn't cure
anything, but it would make me stop caring.
It wouldn't make you a goog either.
I tried to google "goog", but got nothing but stock quotes.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Dingbat
2020-02-08 04:35:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Many years ago, my GP suggested a cold remedy made with hot water,
aspirin, lemon juice, and rum. He explained that it wouldn't cure
anything, but it would make me stop caring.
It wouldn't make you a goog either.
I tried to google "goog", but got nothing but stock quotes.
Australian slang: an egg, full as a goog means drunk
- Collins Dictionary
Peter Moylan
2020-02-08 04:58:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
On Saturday, February 8, 2020 at 7:39:07 AM UTC+5:30, Peter
Post by Peter Moylan
Many years ago, my GP suggested a cold remedy made with hot
water, aspirin, lemon juice, and rum. He explained that it
wouldn't cure anything, but it would make me stop caring.
It wouldn't make you a goog either.
I tried to google "goog", but got nothing but stock quotes.
Australian slang: an egg, full as a goog means drunk - Collins
Dictionary
Yes, of course. A "googie egg" is childish talk for "egg".

I don't think I've heard "full as a goog" for 50 years, which is why I
didn't recognise it.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Ross
2020-02-08 04:58:55 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Many years ago, my GP suggested a cold remedy made with hot water,
aspirin, lemon juice, and rum. He explained that it wouldn't cure
anything, but it would make me stop caring.
It wouldn't make you a goog either.
I tried to google "goog", but got nothing but stock quotes.
Australian slang: an egg, full as a goog means drunk
- Collins Dictionary
Supposedly from goog(ie) 'egg' (AND). Full many a simile
has been used; "full as a boot" was Barry McKenzie's standard.
Ken Blake
2020-02-08 14:41:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract
infection. I'm going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
I tried wine last night. It was a waste of good wine, because I
couldn't taste it.
I once read that people who served wine to Chinese who were not well
up on wine drinking techniques found it a waste because they drank
it like juice.
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.

The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no
idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in Chinese.

It took forever, but I finally got it replaced.
--
Ken
Peter T. Daniels
2020-02-08 14:47:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no
idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
Post by Ken Blake
It took forever, but I finally got it replaced.
charles
2020-02-08 15:13:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no
idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what "corked" means. "Corked" means the cork has gone mouldly
and affected the taste.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Peter T. Daniels
2020-02-08 16:01:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no
idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what "corked" means. "Corked" means the cork has gone mouldly
and affected the taste.
So what's the word for when the corkscrew works through a too-dry cork
and bits of it fall in?

Could he have simply said "spoiled"?
Katy Jennison
2020-02-08 16:58:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no
idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what "corked" means. "Corked" means the cork has gone mouldly
and affected the taste.
So what's the word for when the corkscrew works through a too-dry cork
and bits of it fall in?
"Oh dear, look, there are little bits of cork in the wine."
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Could he have simply said "spoiled"?
I expect he tried that, and 'bad' and 'horrid' and 'ugh!' and probably
"Here, you smell/taste it." One of these must have worked in the end.
--
Katy Jennison
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-02-08 17:40:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no
idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what "corked" means. "Corked" means the cork has gone mouldly
and affected the taste.
So what's the word for when the corkscrew works through a too-dry cork
and bits of it fall in?
"Oh dear, look, there are little bits of cork in the wine."
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Could he have simply said "spoiled"?
In China, maybe, but in a wine-conscious region no. "Corked" is a very
specific term referring to a type of spoilage that cannot be known
without opening the bottle. If the wine has gone acid or oxidized those
are things that a knowledgeable wine connoisseur* should be able to
predict.

Once we stayed near Carcassonne in a cheapish hotel where they had a
wine that was ridiculously cheap and about 20 years older than a wine
of the type (the Pope's Newcastle, I think, but it was a while ago)
should be drunk. We should have known it would be seriously oxidized,
and it was.

On the other hand I once spent a couple of days in the line of duty in
Madeira. We were offered to taste samples of Madeira from 1947 and
1952. We knew they would be over the top, and they were, but we thought
it would be educational to try them. Madeira remains drinkable longer
than pretty much any other wine, but it's not immortal.

*Cross-thread alert. That's a word following the same pattern as
"anglois". It was adopted into English before the French spelling
became "connaisseur".
Post by Katy Jennison
I expect he tried that, and 'bad' and 'horrid' and 'ugh!' and probably
"Here, you smell/taste it." One of these must have worked in the end.
--
athel
charles
2020-02-08 18:12:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large
theater/restaurant and I ordered a bottle of wine. The wine was
corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no idea
what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in
Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what "corked" means. "Corked" means the cork has gone
mouldly and affected the taste.
So what's the word for when the corkscrew works through a too-dry cork
and bits of it fall in?
"Oh dear, look, there are little bits of cork in the wine."
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Could he have simply said "spoiled"?
In China, maybe, but in a wine-conscious region no. "Corked" is a very
specific term referring to a type of spoilage that cannot be known
without opening the bottle. If the wine has gone acid or oxidized those
are things that a knowledgeable wine connoisseur* should be able to
predict.
Once we stayed near Carcassonne in a cheapish hotel where they had a
wine that was ridiculously cheap and about 20 years older than a wine of
the type (the Pope's Newcastle, I think, but it was a while ago) should
be drunk. We should have known it would be seriously oxidized, and it
was.
On a tv panel show Clement Freud said of a rather too old wine "I don't
like drinking mushrom kketchup."
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
On the other hand I once spent a couple of days in the line of duty in
Madeira. We were offered to taste samples of Madeira from 1947 and 1952.
We knew they would be over the top, and they were, but we thought it
would be educational to try them. Madeira remains drinkable longer than
pretty much any other wine, but it's not immortal.
Madiera is a fortified wine, like sherry or port.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-02-08 18:50:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large
theater/restaurant and I ordered a bottle of wine. The wine was
corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no idea
what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in
Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what "corked" means. "Corked" means the cork has gone
mouldly and affected the taste.
So what's the word for when the corkscrew works through a too-dry cork
and bits of it fall in?
"Oh dear, look, there are little bits of cork in the wine."
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Could he have simply said "spoiled"?
In China, maybe, but in a wine-conscious region no. "Corked" is a very
specific term referring to a type of spoilage that cannot be known
without opening the bottle. If the wine has gone acid or oxidized those
are things that a knowledgeable wine connoisseur* should be able to
predict.
Once we stayed near Carcassonne in a cheapish hotel where they had a
wine that was ridiculously cheap and about 20 years older than a wine of
the type (the Pope's Newcastle, I think, but it was a while ago) should
be drunk. We should have known it would be seriously oxidized, and it
was.
On a tv panel show Clement Freud said of a rather too old wine "I don't
like drinking mushrom kketchup."
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
On the other hand I once spent a couple of days in the line of duty in
Madeira. We were offered to taste samples of Madeira from 1947 and 1952.
We knew they would be over the top, and they were, but we thought it
would be educational to try them. Madeira remains drinkable longer than
pretty much any other wine, but it's not immortal.
Madiera is a fortified wine, like sherry or port.
Yes, but it's still not immortal.
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2020-02-09 00:12:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no
idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what "corked" means. "Corked" means the cork has gone mouldly
and affected the taste.
So what's the word for when the corkscrew works through a too-dry cork
and bits of it fall in?
"Oh dear, look, there are little bits of cork in the wine."
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Could he have simply said "spoiled"?
In China, maybe, but in a wine-conscious region no.
He wasn't in a wine-conscious region. He was in a restaurant in China,
and he had to find a way to inform them that they had served an unusable
bottle of wine.
Peter Moylan
2020-02-09 00:27:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Once we stayed near Carcassonne in a cheapish hotel where they had a
wine that was ridiculously cheap and about 20 years older than a
wine of the type (the Pope's Newcastle, I think, but it was a while
ago) should be drunk. We should have known it would be seriously
oxidized, and it was.
I once had a much better experience with a cheapish hotel. I had been
staying with friends in Canberra. A friend told me that on my way home I
should stop by a certain pub in Sydney to buy wine. I did so, and bought
a dozen bottles of good wine at an unbelievably low price. After I
tasted it at home, I realised that I should have bought several dozen
bottles.

It turned out that the pub had recently changed hands. When the new
owner checked his stock he found a lot of wine that was, in his opinion,
too old. So he sold all the old wine at bargain basement prices, in
order to make space for newer wine.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Anders D. Nygaard
2020-02-09 16:55:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
On the other hand I once spent a couple of days in the line of duty in
Madeira. We were offered to taste samples of Madeira from 1947 and 1952.
We knew they would be over the top, and they were, but we thought it
would be educational to try them. Madeira remains drinkable longer than
pretty much any other wine, but it's not immortal.
I've tasted port wine older than that, and it was heaven!

/Anders, Denmark.
Ken Blake
2020-02-09 17:35:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Anders D. Nygaard
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
On the other hand I once spent a couple of days in the line of duty in
Madeira. We were offered to taste samples of Madeira from 1947 and 1952.
We knew they would be over the top, and they were, but we thought it
would be educational to try them. Madeira remains drinkable longer than
pretty much any other wine, but it's not immortal.
I've tasted port wine older than that, and it was heaven!
Like all other kinds of wine, there's port and there's port. There's
vintage port, there's tawny port, there's ruby port, there's white port,
etc. And if it's vintage port, there are good vintages and not so good
vintages.

And there's Fonseca, Graham's, Dow's, Croft, Sandeman, and many others.

They are far from being all the same.
--
Ken
Ken Blake
2020-02-08 19:44:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no
idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what "corked" means. "Corked" means the cork has gone mouldly
and affected the taste.
So what's the word for when the corkscrew works through a too-dry cork
and bits of it fall in?
"Oh dear, look, there are little bits of cork in the wine."
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Could he have simply said "spoiled"?
I expect he tried that, and 'bad' and 'horrid' and 'ugh!' and probably
"Here, you smell/taste it." One of these must have worked in the end.
Yes, I don't remember which one, but something like that is what worked.
--
Ken
charles
2020-02-08 15:15:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had
no idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in
Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what 'corked' means, though. Lots of explanation via your
friendly neighbourhood search engine.
you got there just before I did.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Ken Blake
2020-02-08 15:30:39 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had
no idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in
Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what 'corked' means, though. Lots of explanation via your
friendly neighbourhood search engine.
you got there just before I did.
...and before I had a chance to reply. The term "corked" is misleading,
but that's the term that's used for the presence of a chemical compound
called TCA (2,4,6 – trichloroanisole). It has a distinctive unpleasant odor.
--
Ken
Katy Jennison
2020-02-08 16:49:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had
no idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in
Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what 'corked' means, though. Lots of explanation via your
friendly neighbourhood search engine.
you got there just before I did.
Only by a finger!
--
Katy Jennison
Adam Funk
2020-02-10 09:57:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had
no idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in
Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what 'corked' means, though. Lots of explanation via your
friendly neighbourhood search engine.
you got there just before I did.
Doesn't it have both meanings?
--
Master Foo said: "A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like
a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers
it and burns his hand." ---Eric Raymond
Ken Blake
2020-02-10 17:39:03 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had
no idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in
Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what 'corked' means, though. Lots of explanation via your
friendly neighbourhood search engine.
you got there just before I did.
Doesn't it have both meanings?
No. Not to people who know wine.
--
Ken
Sam Plusnet
2020-02-10 22:01:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Adam Funk
Post by charles
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large
theater/restaurant
Post by Ken Blake
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had
no idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in
Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what 'corked' means, though.  Lots of explanation via
your friendly neighbourhood search engine.
you got there just before I did.
Doesn't it have both meanings?
No. Not to people who know wine.
I know little about wine, and my answer would be "no".
--
Sam Plusnet
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-02-11 09:27:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Adam Funk
Post by charles
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large
theater/restaurant
Post by Ken Blake
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the
waitress had no idea what I was talking about, and I had no
idea how to say it in Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what 'corked' means, though.  Lots of explanation via
your friendly neighbourhood search engine.
Corking post!
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Adam Funk
Post by charles
you got there just before I did.
Doesn't it have both meanings?
No. Not to people who know wine.
I know little about wine, and my answer would be "no".
I do! I like red, and not dry. HTH. Anyway, doesn't wine come in
screwcap bottles?
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Adam Funk
2020-02-11 13:33:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Adam Funk
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had
no idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in
Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what 'corked' means, though. Lots of explanation via your
friendly neighbourhood search engine.
you got there just before I did.
Doesn't it have both meanings?
No. Not to people who know wine.
Fair enough.
--
Some say the world will end in fire; some say in segfaults.
<https://xkcd.com/312/>
s***@gmail.com
2020-02-08 15:40:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no
idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
Post by Ken Blake
It took forever, but I finally got it replaced.
"A corked wine does not mean a wine that has tiny particles of cork floating around in the glass"

the POS who knows everything didn't know this.

Here is entertainment and education on this topic



13:21
Mack A. Damia
2020-02-08 16:11:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sat, 8 Feb 2020 15:11:16 +0000, Katy Jennison
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Ken Blake
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no
idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in Chinese.
"Had pieces of cork in it" was too difficult? (or "pieces of wood")
That's not what 'corked' means, though. Lots of explanation via your
friendly neighbourhood search engine.
I heard the term used many years ago to indicate inebriation.

"He got corked at the party."
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-02-08 15:17:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract
infection. I'm going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
I tried wine last night. It was a waste of good wine, because I
couldn't taste it.
I once read that people who served wine to Chinese who were not well
up on wine drinking techniques found it a waste because they drank
it like juice.
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no
idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in Chinese.
Golly. How could anyone know so little Chinese?

In about 1980 I went to Harvey's restaurant in Bristol with the person
who selected the wine for Harveys -- a big shot, therefore. The wine he
ordered was corked, but he got us to taste it anyway as he said that
few people actually know what a corked wine tastes like. Given his
status in the company, if he said it was corked then it was corked.
Post by Ken Blake
It took forever, but I finally got it replaced.
--
athel
Peter Moylan
2020-02-09 00:20:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
On Friday, February 7, 2020 at 3:33:36 PM UTC+5:30, Peter
Post by Peter Moylan
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract
infection. I'm going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
I tried wine last night. It was a waste of good wine, because I
couldn't taste it.
I once read that people who served wine to Chinese who were not
well up on wine drinking techniques found it a waste because they
drank it like juice.
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had
no idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in
Chinese.
It took forever, but I finally got it replaced.
Many years ago my wife and I were invited to dinner by a newly arrived
new colleague from China. He offered us wine. I tactfully refrained from
mentioning that sherry is not usually served with the main course.

It wasn't until then that I realised that Chinese culture didn't include
much familiarity with wine. That was back then. I gather that it's since
changed.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Adam Funk
2020-02-10 09:56:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Dingbat
Post by Peter Moylan
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract
infection. I'm going to have to give up Corona beer.
Pity. Beer with it.
It might help cure what ales him.
I tried wine last night. It was a waste of good wine, because I
couldn't taste it.
I once read that people who served wine to Chinese who were not well
up on wine drinking techniques found it a waste because they drank
it like juice.
Nineteen years ago, it was either in Beijing or Shanghai (I don't
remember which) that my wife and I were in a large theater/restaurant
and I ordered a bottle of wine.
The wine was corked. If I said "corked" in English, the waitress had no
idea what I was talking about, and I had no idea how to say it in Chinese.
"No it isn't --- you've just seen me take the cork out."
Post by Ken Blake
It took forever, but I finally got it replaced.
--
A book lying idle on a shelf is wasted ammunition.
---Henry Miller
Quinn C
2020-02-07 19:50:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by RH Draney
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to
me "garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a
clove of garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might
well have said "potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that
she'd shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
I believe the canonical example is the blue-collar husband who comes
home from his dirty, strenuous job, plops his fat ass down in the
recliner, picks up the television remote control, and calls to his
wife: "beer me!"...r
Today I've been suffering badly from a respiratory tract infection. I'm
going to have to give up Corona beer.
Don't give up hop!
--
Was den Juengeren fehlt, sind keine Botschaften, es ist der Sinn
fuer Zusammenhaenge. [Young people aren't short of messages, but
of a sense for interconnections.]
-- Helen Feng im Zeit-Interview
phil
2020-02-07 10:51:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
   Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to me
"garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a clove of
garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might well have said
"potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that she'd
shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
Oh, very gourd! Perhaps we'd butternut regard it as general.
Ken Blake
2020-02-07 14:51:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by phil
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to me
"garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a clove of
garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might well have said
"potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that she'd
shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Does this extend to things like "squash me"?
...or "chop me"?
--
Ken
Ross
2020-02-07 03:54:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by phil
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
Janet
Ah, now, only the other day in the kitchen my daughter said to me
"garlic me", by which she meant "please would you pass me a clove of
garlic". I suppose had she wanted a potato, she might well have said
"potato me".
(Specific context: we were cooking. She knew that I knew that she'd
shortly need a clove of garlic.)
Real live examples:

If you and you are bored and want to learn more about potatoes, you just say 'Alexa potato me' and Alexa will reply back with a fact about potatoes.

[Like your 'garlic' -- seems pretty productive, at least
with food items.]

Joey had once tried to potato him by throwing real
punches. Wes had fought back and things had turned
nasty real fast....

I've never forma'd anything before ( I just potato them all), and I can still fit my mods in with excess space.

Hey guys! So I don't have much potatos but I was wondering for nekros and hydroid primes, do you guys potato them? Forma them? Or both? Seems like these ...

(These last two may make sense to someone who knows what "Warframe" is all about.)
Spains Harden
2020-02-07 07:37:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
In Arthurian legend, circumference is said to have designed the table.
Dingbat
2020-02-07 08:41:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
In Arthurian legend, circumference is said to have designed the table.
No wonder it was round all around:-) Now, who was diametrically opposed
to Arthur; was it Lancelot?
RH Draney
2020-02-07 09:23:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
In Arthurian legend, circumference is said to have designed the table.
No wonder it was round all around:-) Now, who was diametrically opposed
to Arthur; was it Lancelot?
That may have been the purview of Sir Cumcision....r
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2020-02-07 09:43:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Dingbat
Post by Spains Harden
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
In Arthurian legend, circumference is said to have designed the table.
No wonder it was round all around:-) Now, who was diametrically opposed
to Arthur; was it Lancelot?
Lancelittle?
--
athel
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2020-02-07 19:01:26 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
Janet
OED:

circumference, v.

transitive. To form the circumference of, to encompass.

potato, v.

transitive. To provide with potatoes; spec. to plant (land) with
potatoes; to accompany (a dish) with potatoes; to pelt with
potatoes. Also figurative.

That last sense:

1967 Coshocton (Ohio) Tribune 29 Oct. 14/5 He mourned that
‘police are tomatoed, potatoed and spat upon during riots’.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Adam Funk
2020-02-10 09:55:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Janet
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
Door, circumference, pedestal, potato.... How many do you want?
"Door" can be a transitive verb:

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dooring>
--
I love you like sin, but I won't be your pigeon
occam
2020-02-07 11:08:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with a noun, verb or
adjective that cannot be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
That challenge has a touch of the 'arrison. Make a verb of that!
Dingbat
2020-02-07 15:24:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Spains Harden
I wonder if anybody can come up with
a noun, verb or sdjective that cannot
be converted to one of the others,
given the right context?
In Indian English:
Journey by walk.
Distance by flight.

"Nouning" these verbs is not kosher
in proper English in these contexts
even though walk and flight are
usable as nouns in other contexts.
In proper English, they're:

Journey by foot.
Distance by air.
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