Stemming

Post by Quinn C
I know "stemming" as a linguistics term, but I couldn't figure out the
| Ringette is currently not in the Olympics. In its homeland of Canada,
| stemming the game in order to have the sport recognized by the
| International Olympic Committee for inclusion in the winter Olympic
| games is underway. Marketing methods have included using social
| media as well as word of mouth.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringette>
The only intransitive usages of the verb "stem" I find in the
dictionary are "to originate" and a skiing technique. Does this make
sense to anyone?

"Stemming" is transitive here. As transitive, M-W says it can mean "to make
headway against (something, such as an adverse tide, current, or wind)".

My understanding (but I could be wrong) is it was improperly used for
"stemming the opposition to the game" (with the above sense of "stem"),
which would actually mean "support" or "promote" the sport and seems to
be in keeping with the context.

Post by Quinn C
--
... their average size remains so much smaller; so that the sum
total of food converted into thought by women can never equal
[that of] men. It follows therefore, that men will always think
more than women. -- M.A. Hardaker in Popular Science (1881)

Tony Cooper

2019-03-06 21:41:17 UTC

"Stemming" is transitive here. As transitive, M-W says it can mean "to make
headway against (something, such as an adverse tide, current, or wind)".
My understanding (but I could be wrong) is it was improperly used for
"stemming the opposition to the game" (with the above sense of "stem"),
which would actually mean "support" or "promote" the sport and seems to
be in keeping with the context.

The only usage I see or hear is "stemming the tide". Trump wants to
stem the tide of illegal immigrants. Opponents of the University of
Alabama football wants to stem the Tide.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Quinn C

2019-03-06 23:13:30 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper

"Stemming" is transitive here. As transitive, M-W says it can mean "to make
headway against (something, such as an adverse tide, current, or wind)".
My understanding (but I could be wrong) is it was improperly used for
"stemming the opposition to the game" (with the above sense of "stem"),
which would actually mean "support" or "promote" the sport and seems to
be in keeping with the context.

The only usage I see or hear is "stemming the tide". Trump wants to
stem the tide of illegal immigrants. Opponents of the University of
Alabama football wants to stem the Tide.

I guess competitors of Procter & Gamble want to stem the Tide, too.

--
ASCII to ASCII, DOS to DOS

b***@aol.com

2019-03-07 16:03:07 UTC

"Stemming" is transitive here. As transitive, M-W says it can mean "to make
headway against (something, such as an adverse tide, current, or wind)".
My understanding (but I could be wrong) is it was improperly used for
"stemming the opposition to the game" (with the above sense of "stem"),
which would actually mean "support" or "promote" the sport and seems to
be in keeping with the context.

That's too creative for my taste - it opens up the possibility of
dropping the complement in any fixed expression, which would mean the
fall of civilization.
I could maybe accept a transitive reading if "the game" is meant to be
"the rigged process of getting access to Olympic status." But I think
that would only work if the combination occurred regularly.

But the sentence just can't be made sense of if "Stemming" is intransitive.
It could be that "game" doesn't refer to a rigged process, but just to
the "current state of affairs", as it does in e.g. "game changer". In that
case, "Stemming" should be construed as "stem" in the following sentence:

"The success of African-American health professionals helped stem the
view that Blacks were incapable of following responsible medical practice."

https://books.google.fr/books?id=KM5wDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT164&lpg=PT164&dq=%22stem+the+view+that%22&source=bl&ots=YyqkNNRtfm&sig=ACfU3U2XSLi1CtHZhPm-pdfALkz9aWxflw&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwig1OnEsfDgAhWkVRUIHcd8D2MQ6AEwAXoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22stem%20the%20view%20that%22&f=false

Never mind that ringette hasn't an iota of a chance even without
rigging. Who has even heard of it outside of Canada?
--
The bee must not pass judgment on the hive. (Voxish proverb)
-- Robert C. Wilson, Vortex (novel), p.125

Peter T. Daniels

2019-03-08 03:22:41 UTC

"Stemming" is transitive here. As transitive, M-W says it can mean "to make
headway against (something, such as an adverse tide, current, or wind)".
My understanding (but I could be wrong) is it was improperly used for
"stemming the opposition to the game" (with the above sense of "stem"),
which would actually mean "support" or "promote" the sport and seems to
be in keeping with the context.

But the sentence just can't be made sense of if "Stemming" is intransitive.
It could be that "game" doesn't refer to a rigged process, but just to
the "current state of affairs", as it does in e.g. "game changer". In that
"The success of African-American health professionals helped stem the
view that Blacks were incapable of following responsible medical practice."

It is completely obvious that there is no sense of "stem" that makes
sense in the context of the sentence. It is, as CDB said, some sort of
autocorrect error for some mistake in typing some possible verb.

Post by b***@aol.com
https://books.google.fr/books?id=KM5wDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT164&lpg=PT164&dq=%22stem+the+view+that%22&source=bl&ots=YyqkNNRtfm&sig=ACfU3U2XSLi1CtHZhPm-pdfALkz9aWxflw&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwig1OnEsfDgAhWkVRUIHcd8D2MQ6AEwAXoECAEQAQ#v=onepage&q=%22stem%20the%20view%20that%22&f=false

Never mind that ringette hasn't an iota of a chance even without
rigging. Who has even heard of it outside of Canada?

Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Madhu

2019-03-08 03:33:59 UTC

Post by Quinn C
I know "stemming" as a linguistics term, but I couldn't figure
| Ringette is currently not in the Olympics. In its homeland of
| Canada, stemming the game in order to have the sport recognized
| by the International Olympic Committee for inclusion in the
| winter Olympic games is underway. Marketing methods have
| included using social media as well as word of mouth.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringette> The only intransitive
usages of the verb "stem" I find in the dictionary are "to
originate" and a skiing technique. Does this make sense to
anyone?

"Stemming" is transitive here. As transitive, M-W says it can
mean "to make headway against (something, such as an adverse
tide, current, or wind)". My understanding (but I could be
wrong) is it was improperly used for "stemming the opposition to
the game" (with the above sense of "stem"), which would actually
mean "support" or "promote" the sport and seems to be in keeping
with the context.

That's too creative for my taste - it opens up the possibility of
dropping the complement in any fixed expression, which would mean
the fall of civilization. I could maybe accept a transitive
reading if "the game" is meant to be "the rigged process of getting
access to Olympic status." But I think that would only work if the
combination occurred regularly.

How is the sense of stem in "the handkerchief helped stem the flow of
blood" different from this?

Peter T. Daniels

2019-03-08 03:54:34 UTC

Post by Madhu

"Stemming" is transitive here. As transitive, M-W says it can
mean "to make headway against (something, such as an adverse
tide, current, or wind)". My understanding (but I could be
wrong) is it was improperly used for "stemming the opposition to
the game" (with the above sense of "stem"), which would actually
mean "support" or "promote" the sport and seems to be in keeping
with the context.

That's too creative for my taste - it opens up the possibility of
dropping the complement in any fixed expression, which would mean
the fall of civilization. I could maybe accept a transitive
reading if "the game" is meant to be "the rigged process of getting
access to Olympic status." But I think that would only work if the
combination occurred regularly.

How is the sense of stem in "the handkerchief helped stem the flow of
blood" different from this?

It is obvious from context that someone wants to _promote_, not wipe
out, what seems to be some sort of game that seems to be known to some Canadians.

CDB

2019-03-08 13:16:50 UTC

Post by Madhu

Post by Quinn C
I know "stemming" as a linguistics term, but I couldn't
figure out the meaning of this usage: | Ringette is
currently not in the Olympics. In its homeland of |
Canada, stemming the game in order to have the sport
recognized | by the International Olympic Committee for
inclusion in the | winter Olympic games is underway.
Marketing methods have | included using social media as
well as word of mouth.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringette> The only
intransitive usages of the verb "stem" I find in the
dictionary are "to originate" and a skiing technique.
Does this make sense to anyone?

"Stemming" is transitive here. As transitive, M-W says it
can mean "to make headway against (something, such as an
adverse tide, current, or wind)". My understanding (but I
could be wrong) is it was improperly used for "stemming the
opposition to the game" (with the above sense of "stem"),
which would actually mean "support" or "promote" the sport
and seems to be in keeping with the context.

That's too creative for my taste - it opens up the
possibility of dropping the complement in any fixed
expression, which would mean the fall of civilization. I
could maybe accept a transitive reading if "the game" is
meant to be "the rigged process of getting access to Olympic
status." But I think that would only work if the combination
occurred regularly.

It is completely obvious that there is no sense of "stem" that
makes sense in the context of the sentence. It is, as CDB said,
some sort of autocorrect error for some mistake in typing some
possible verb.

How is the sense of stem in "the handkerchief helped stem the flow
of blood" different from this?

It is obvious from context that someone wants to _promote_, not wipe
out, what seems to be some sort of game that seems to be known to some Canadians.

The kind known to me was played in the school gym by girls in stocking
feet (new floor). I think the ends of the sticks were padded too.

In French they pronounce the [g]: "ringuette" [r&~gEt].

--
Sometimes they put up a net and played Goodminton.

Quinn C

2019-03-08 17:38:46 UTC

* CDB:

[Ringette]

Post by CDB

Post by Peter T. Daniels
It is obvious from context that someone wants to _promote_, not wipe
out, what seems to be some sort of game that seems to be known to some Canadians.

The kind known to me was played in the school gym by girls in stocking
feet (new floor). I think the ends of the sticks were padded too.
In French they pronounce the [g]: "ringuette" [r&~gEt].

That's how I think I heard it in English, too (ring-get) but here in
Quebec that may be transference from French. And I only heard it from
two or three people anyway.

Next week: tennikoit. Sneak peek:

| The game is particularly popular in Germany, South Africa, Brazil,
| and the Subcontinent nations of India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh.

--
The least questioned assumptions are often the most questionable
-- Paul Broca
... who never questioned that men are more intelligent than women

Madhu

2019-03-10 10:54:20 UTC

Post by Madhu

Post by Peter T. Daniels
It is completely obvious that there is no sense of "stem" that
makes sense in the context of the sentence. It is, as CDB said,
some sort of autocorrect error for some mistake in typing some
possible verb.

How is the sense of stem in "the handkerchief helped stem the flow of
blood" different from this?

It is obvious from context that someone wants to _promote_, not wipe
out, what seems to be some sort of game that seems to be known to some Canadians.

Ah yes, sorry I was myopic and thought your comment applied to the
quotation posted by bebercito

Jerry Friedman

2019-03-07 14:25:49 UTC

"Stemming" is transitive here. As transitive, M-W says it can mean "to make
headway against (something, such as an adverse tide, current, or wind)".
My understanding (but I could be wrong) is it was improperly used for
"stemming the opposition to the game" (with the above sense of "stem"),
which would actually mean "support" or "promote" the sport and seems to
be in keeping with the context.

Nobody, that's who.

--
Jerry Friedman

Anders D. Nygaard

2019-03-10 15:11:59 UTC

Never mind that ringette hasn't an iota of a chance even without
rigging. Who has even heard of it outside of Canada?

I certainly hadn't heard of it - which is why I would think it
didn't have an iota of a chance without rigging.
Even *with* rigging, it would probably be hard to attain
Olympic status.

... which seems to be rather the opposite of Quinn's sentiment.

/Anders, Denmark.

Quinn C

2019-03-11 17:18:37 UTC

Never mind that ringette hasn't an iota of a chance even without
rigging. Who has even heard of it outside of Canada?

I certainly hadn't heard of it - which is why I would think it
didn't have an iota of a chance without rigging.
Even *with* rigging, it would probably be hard to attain
Olympic status.
... which seems to be rather the opposite of Quinn's sentiment.

I don't think so. I was saying it doesn't stand a chance even if the
selection process is not rigged against it, and I believe you're
topping that by saying it wouldn't be getting there even if the process
was rigged in its favor.

--
They spend so much time fussing about my identity
that I really shouldn't have to bother with it
myself at all.
-- Margaret Atwood, The Edible Woman, p.223

Anders D. Nygaard

2019-03-13 23:24:39 UTC

Never mind that ringette hasn't an iota of a chance even without
rigging. Who has even heard of it outside of Canada?

I certainly hadn't heard of it - which is why I would think it
didn't have an iota of a chance without rigging.
Even *with* rigging, it would probably be hard to attain
Olympic status.
... which seems to be rather the opposite of Quinn's sentiment.

Ah - "rigging against" makes your "even" make sense.
But is that standard usage? I believe I have only encountered "rigging"
in connection with something you want to achieve, not something you
wish to avoid.

/Anders, Denmark.

Tony Cooper

2019-03-13 23:51:06 UTC

On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 00:24:39 +0100, "Anders D. Nygaard"

Never mind that ringette hasn't an iota of a chance even without
rigging. Who has even heard of it outside of Canada?

I certainly hadn't heard of it - which is why I would think it
didn't have an iota of a chance without rigging.
Even *with* rigging, it would probably be hard to attain
Olympic status.
... which seems to be rather the opposite of Quinn's sentiment.

"Rigging" in the US (in this context) means a pre-arrangement to make
something possible. It is usually either an illegal arrangement or a
unethical arrangement. The most common use is "rigging the bids" in
which someone sets the bidding requirements to favor one party.

Naturally, when a bid is rigged, it's in someone's favor but it's also
to the other party's loss of favor. There's a winner and a loser or
losers.

Dunno if you've read about it, but we have a huge scandal in the US
about rigging the college entrance process to favor certain applicants
whose parents have paid fees or made donations. In these cases, the
rigging has been illegal.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

Tony Cooper

2019-03-14 00:03:01 UTC

On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 19:51:06 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 00:24:39 +0100, "Anders D. Nygaard"

Never mind that ringette hasn't an iota of a chance even without
rigging. Who has even heard of it outside of Canada?

I certainly hadn't heard of it - which is why I would think it
didn't have an iota of a chance without rigging.
Even *with* rigging, it would probably be hard to attain
Olympic status.
... which seems to be rather the opposite of Quinn's sentiment.

"Rigging" in the US (in this context) means a pre-arrangement to make
something possible. It is usually either an illegal arrangement or a
unethical arrangement. The most common use is "rigging the bids" in
which someone sets the bidding requirements to favor one party.
Naturally, when a bid is rigged, it's in someone's favor but it's also
to the other party's loss of favor. There's a winner and a loser or
losers.
Dunno if you've read about it, but we have a huge scandal in the US
about rigging the college entrance process to favor certain applicants
whose parents have paid fees or made donations. In these cases, the
rigging has been illegal.

Thought of this later and searched for "Denmark bid rigging" and found

https://globalcompetitionreview.com/article/1168137/denmark-charges-demolition-companies-with-bid-rigging

There may be a Danish word for "rigging", but the concept is the same
as I've described.

--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida

s***@gmail.com

2019-03-13 23:52:18 UTC

Never mind that ringette hasn't an iota of a chance even without
rigging. Who has even heard of it outside of Canada?

I certainly hadn't heard of it - which is why I would think it
didn't have an iota of a chance without rigging.
Even *with* rigging, it would probably be hard to attain
Olympic status.
... which seems to be rather the opposite of Quinn's sentiment.

What the desired result is depends on who is doing the rigging.
For instance, the IOC may have rigged procedures to make adding sports difficult,
on the basis of dilution of product.

/dps

h***@gmail.com

2019-03-07 08:55:18 UTC

"Stem" means "start", "originate", "spring from". You have stem cells
from which cultures can be developed. As opposed to grafting into or
hybridising from rootstock.

Peter Moylan

2019-03-07 11:47:10 UTC

Post by h***@gmail.com

Post by Quinn C
I know "stemming" as a linguistics term, but I couldn't figure out
| Ringette is currently not in the Olympics. In its homeland of
Canada, | stemming the game in order to have the sport recognized
by the | International Olympic Committee for inclusion in the
winter Olympic | games is underway. Marketing methods have
included using social | media as well as word of mouth.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringette>
The only intransitive usages of the verb "stem" I find in the
dictionary are "to originate" and a skiing technique. Does this
make sense to anyone?

"Stem" means "start", "originate", "spring from". You have stem cells
from which cultures can be developed. As opposed to grafting into or
hybridising from rootstock.

Yes, but neither that nor the other comments in this thread help me to
make sense of the Ringette statement. My best guess is that the
Wikipedia author simply chose the wrong word.

--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia

CDB

2019-03-07 13:32:14 UTC