Discussion:
"Hallway"
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Stefan Ram
2021-04-27 20:10:31 UTC
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I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
noun phrases) for two different types of hallways:

One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
apartment, but outside the apartments.)

One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
is part of the apartment.)

TIA!
charles
2021-04-27 20:41:20 UTC
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Post by Stefan Ram
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
apartment, but outside the apartments.)
In Scotland this is usually called "A Common Stair(case)"
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
is part of the apartment.)
I'd use "hall" or "vestibule"
Post by Stefan Ram
TIA!
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
bert
2021-04-27 21:21:15 UTC
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Post by charles
Post by Stefan Ram
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
apartment, but outside the apartments.)
In Scotland this is usually called "A Common Stair(case)"
In Edinburgh, yes, but not everywhere in Scotland. In Glasgow,
where I grew up, the hallway which gives pedestrian access
to the stair is called the 'close'. But in Edinburgh, a 'close' is
different - it gives access to an off-street yard or open space.
charles
2021-04-27 21:29:30 UTC
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Post by bert
Post by charles
Post by Stefan Ram
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
apartment, but outside the apartments.)
In Scotland this is usually called "A Common Stair(case)"
In Edinburgh, yes, but not everywhere in Scotland. In Glasgow,
where I grew up, the hallway which gives pedestrian access
to the stair is called the 'close'. But in Edinburgh, a 'close' is
different - it gives access to an off-street yard or open space.
Ok, you can tell I'm from Edinburgh.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-27 21:26:35 UTC
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Post by charles
Post by Stefan Ram
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
apartment, but outside the apartments.)
In Scotland this is usually called "A Common Stair(case)"
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
is part of the apartment.)
I'd use "hall" or "vestibule"
In AmE, both -- the public ones leading to apartments or offices,
and the ones inside apartments or office suites, are "hall(way)s."
The physical structure itself is just the hall, but if you think of it
as a space that provides access, then you might say "hallway."

"If you put your shoes out in the hallway at the hotel, they might
get stolen." No good!

"In Europe they put their shoes out in the hall at the hotel, and they're
polished by morning."
Chrysi Cat
2021-04-28 14:21:58 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by charles
Post by Stefan Ram
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
apartment, but outside the apartments.)
In Scotland this is usually called "A Common Stair(case)"
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
is part of the apartment.)
I'd use "hall" or "vestibule"
In AmE, both -- the public ones leading to apartments or offices,
and the ones inside apartments or office suites, are "hall(way)s."
The physical structure itself is just the hall, but if you think of it
as a space that provides access, then you might say "hallway."
"If you put your shoes out in the hallway at the hotel, they might
get stolen." No good!
Oh. did I misread this one the first several times (and thus libel you
in my angry response to Pamela), and you're actually only saying "it's
no good that you could get your shoes stolen", or are you saying that
the only good way to construct the sentence would instead be "if you put
your shoes out in the HALL at the hotel...."?
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"In Europe they put their shoes out in the hall at the hotel, and they're
polished by morning."
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-28 15:06:21 UTC
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Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by charles
Post by Stefan Ram
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
apartment, but outside the apartments.)
In Scotland this is usually called "A Common Stair(case)"
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
is part of the apartment.)
I'd use "hall" or "vestibule"
In AmE, both -- the public ones leading to apartments or offices,
and the ones inside apartments or office suites, are "hall(way)s."
The physical structure itself is just the hall, but if you think of it
as a space that provides access, then you might say "hallway."
"If you put your shoes out in the hallway at the hotel, they might
get stolen." No good!
Oh. did I misread this one the first several times (and thus libel you
in my angry response to Pamela), and you're actually only saying "it's
no good that you could get your shoes stolen", or are you saying that
the only good way to construct the sentence would instead be "if you put
your shoes out in the HALL at the hotel...."?
I didn't find such a libel anywhere.

Why would you start talking about whether shoes get stolen, when
the only point of the PAIR of examples is to show a Pondian difference
between "hall" and "hallway"?
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"In Europe they put their shoes out in the hall at the hotel, and they're
polished by morning."
Incidentally, for someone above a "vestibule" is tiny -- probably just the
space between the outer door and the inner door that serves as a sort
of airlock to try to keep the weather from invading the lobby.

Lobbies are bigger than foyers. Apartments have foyers but not lobbies.
Apartment houses can have foyers if the developer didn't want to waste
space on public amenities, such as convenient access to the mailboxes.
Churches have narthexes. I suppose they might have foyers elsewhere
in the building.
CDB
2021-04-28 19:04:28 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by charles
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word noun
phrases) for two different types of hallways: One for a
hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory multi-apartment
residential buildings with doors into the individual
apartments. (This hallway is not part of an apartment, but
outside the apartments.)
In Scotland this is usually called "A Common Stair(case)"
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
is part of the apartment.)
I'd use "hall" or "vestibule"
In AmE, both -- the public ones leading to apartments or offices,
and the ones inside apartments or office suites, are
"hall(way)s." The physical structure itself is just the hall,
but if you think of it as a space that provides access, then you
might say "hallway."
"If you put your shoes out in the hallway at the hotel, they
might get stolen." No good!
Oh. did I misread this one the first several times (and thus libel
you in my angry response to Pamela), and you're actually only
saying "it's no good that you could get your shoes stolen", or are
you saying that the only good way to construct the sentence would
instead be "if you put your shoes out in the HALL at the
hotel...."?
I didn't find such a libel anywhere.
Why would you start talking about whether shoes get stolen, when the
only point of the PAIR of examples is to show a Pondian difference
between "hall" and "hallway"?
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"In Europe they put their shoes out in the hall at the hotel,
and they're polished by morning."
Incidentally, for someone above a "vestibule" is tiny -- probably
just the space between the outer door and the inner door that serves
as a sort of airlock to try to keep the weather from invading the
lobby.
Lobbies are bigger than foyers. Apartments have foyers but not
lobbies. Apartment houses can have foyers if the developer didn't
want to waste space on public amenities, such as convenient access
to the mailboxes. Churches have narthexes. I suppose they might have
foyers elsewhere in the building.
The last apartment building I lived in had both: an airlock/foyer (?),
with a locked inner door and a panel of residents' names and
call-buttons, and a lobby with a gas fireplace and comfy furniture in a
sunken section, with hallways (I guess) leading to the two buildings of
the complex and into the pool area. A relic of better days at Richmond
Park Square, I think.

The pool and the view across the river to the Gatineau Hills are the
only things I miss about it. Sunsets and thunderstorms.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-28 19:52:39 UTC
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Post by CDB
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by charles
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word noun
phrases) for two different types of hallways: One for a
hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory multi-apartment
residential buildings with doors into the individual
apartments. (This hallway is not part of an apartment, but
outside the apartments.)
In Scotland this is usually called "A Common Stair(case)"
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
is part of the apartment.)
I'd use "hall" or "vestibule"
In AmE, both -- the public ones leading to apartments or offices,
and the ones inside apartments or office suites, are
"hall(way)s." The physical structure itself is just the hall,
but if you think of it as a space that provides access, then you
might say "hallway."
"If you put your shoes out in the hallway at the hotel, they
might get stolen." No good!
Oh. did I misread this one the first several times (and thus libel
you in my angry response to Pamela), and you're actually only
saying "it's no good that you could get your shoes stolen", or are
you saying that the only good way to construct the sentence would
instead be "if you put your shoes out in the HALL at the
hotel...."?
I didn't find such a libel anywhere.
Why would you start talking about whether shoes get stolen, when the
only point of the PAIR of examples is to show a Pondian difference
between "hall" and "hallway"?
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"In Europe they put their shoes out in the hall at the hotel,
and they're polished by morning."
Incidentally, for someone above a "vestibule" is tiny -- probably
just the space between the outer door and the inner door that serves
as a sort of airlock to try to keep the weather from invading the
lobby.
Lobbies are bigger than foyers. Apartments have foyers but not
lobbies. Apartment houses can have foyers if the developer didn't
want to waste space on public amenities, such as convenient access
to the mailboxes. Churches have narthexes. I suppose they might have
foyers elsewhere in the building.
The last apartment building I lived in had both: an airlock/foyer (?),
vestibule (from it you pass into a foyer [if small] or a lobby [if big]. If
there's a concierge or the like (who accepts packages during the day
and vets visitors), then it's a lobby, definitely not a foyer.
Post by CDB
with a locked inner door and a panel of residents' names and
call-buttons, and a lobby with a gas fireplace and comfy furniture in a
sunken section, with hallways (I guess) leading to the two buildings of
the complex and into the pool area. A relic of better days at Richmond
Park Square, I think.
Did it used to be a residential hotel?

That sounds awfully opulent for a mere apartment house.
Post by CDB
The pool and the view across the river to the Gatineau Hills are the
only things I miss about it. Sunsets and thunderstorms.
CDB
2021-04-29 12:42:07 UTC
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[And he walked on down the hall]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Incidentally, for someone above a "vestibule" is tiny --
probably just the space between the outer door and the inner door
that serves as a sort of airlock to try to keep the weather from
invading the lobby.
Lobbies are bigger than foyers. Apartments have foyers but not
lobbies. Apartment houses can have foyers if the developer
didn't want to waste space on public amenities, such as
convenient access to the mailboxes. Churches have narthexes. I
suppose they might have foyers elsewhere in the building.
The last apartment building I lived in had both: an airlock/foyer (?),
vestibule (from it you pass into a foyer [if small] or a lobby [if
big]. If there's a concierge or the like (who accepts packages during
the day and vets visitors), then it's a lobby, definitely not a
foyer.
Post by CDB
with a locked inner door and a panel of residents' names and
call-buttons, and a lobby with a gas fireplace and comfy furniture
in a sunken section, with hallways (I guess) leading to the two
buildings of the complex and into the pool area. A relic of better
days at Richmond Park Square, I think.
Did it used to be a residential hotel?
Not AFAIK.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
That sounds awfully opulent for a mere apartment house.
It had been, I think, but was in decline. I finally moved out when the
population (a silent majority of old folks) changed enough to include
yoot who thought it would be fun to pull the fire-alarm at 3:00 am.
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
The pool and the view across the river to the Gatineau Hills are
the only things I miss about it. Sunsets and thunderstorms.
Madhu
2021-04-30 11:21:30 UTC
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Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
with a locked inner door and a panel of residents' names and
call-buttons, and a lobby with a gas fireplace and comfy furniture in
a sunken section, with hallways (I guess) leading to the two
buildings of the complex and into the pool area. A relic of better
days at Richmond Park Square, I think.
Did it used to be a residential hotel?
This "did it used to" always grates and for some reason i imagine an
eastern european/european speaker.

I expect "did it use to be"
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-30 15:03:52 UTC
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Post by Madhu
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by CDB
with a locked inner door and a panel of residents' names and
call-buttons, and a lobby with a gas fireplace and comfy furniture in
a sunken section, with hallways (I guess) leading to the two
buildings of the complex and into the pool area. A relic of better
days at Richmond Park Square, I think.
Did it used to be a residential hotel?
This "did it used to" always grates and for some reason i imagine an
eastern european/european speaker.
I expect "did it use to be"
The spelling was discussed here a while ago. The verb "use" has a [z],
but "useta" has an [s], so "use" is deceptive.

But it's not to worry, since it's unlike to appear in formal writing.
Lewis
2021-04-27 22:52:49 UTC
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Post by charles
Post by Stefan Ram
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
apartment, but outside the apartments.)
In Scotland this is usually called "A Common Stair(case)"
The hallway is called a stair?

I think here that is just an interior hall, though I think "common hall"
or "shared hall" would be understood. The person to ask would be a
realtor who deals with apartment rentals.
Post by charles
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
is part of the apartment.)
I'd use "hall" or "vestibule"
Same.
--
If the Foo Fighters make another movie, I'll kill you myself.
Ken Blake
2021-04-28 16:12:30 UTC
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Post by charles
Post by Stefan Ram
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
apartment, but outside the apartments.)
In Scotland this is usually called "A Common Stair(case)"
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
is part of the apartment.)
I'd use "hall" or "vestibule"
I don't think it's often used anymore, but in my youth it was also
sometimes called a "foyer" (pronounced FAW-yer)

However Stefan asked about a "hallway within an apartment just inside
the front door," but I wonder whether he really meant "just inside the
front door." Apartments (and houses) often have hallways that are part
of the apartment, but are not just inside the front door.


If that's what he meant, I don't know the answer to his question, but in
my experience, both types are more likely to be called "hall" than
"hallway."
--
Ken
Quinn C
2021-04-28 17:12:41 UTC
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Post by Ken Blake
Post by charles
Post by Stefan Ram
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
apartment, but outside the apartments.)
In Scotland this is usually called "A Common Stair(case)"
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
is part of the apartment.)
I'd use "hall" or "vestibule"
I don't think it's often used anymore, but in my youth it was also
sometimes called a "foyer" (pronounced FAW-yer)
However Stefan asked about a "hallway within an apartment just inside
the front door," but I wonder whether he really meant "just inside the
front door." Apartments (and houses) often have hallways that are part
of the apartment, but are not just inside the front door.
If that's what he meant, I don't know the answer to his question, but in
my experience, both types are more likely to be called "hall" than
"hallway."
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.

That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience. My current apartment is a bit like
that, but there's still two parts to the space: the part just inside the
door, with a closet for coats, and then a narrower portion that leads to
other rooms, just that it's so short (a good two steps) that I hesitate
to call it anything -way.

My last apartment had nothing of the sort, you stepped right into the
living room.
--
... one has to question science with those economy people
[...] thinking is often blocked by an ideological super-
structure [...] It's in many aspects more a religion than
a science. -- Heiner Flassbeck, famous economist
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-28 18:42:06 UTC
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On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 11:12:50 AM UTC-6, Quinn C wrote:
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
Post by Quinn C
My current apartment is a bit like
that, but there's still two parts to the space: the part just inside the
door, with a closet for coats, and then a narrower portion that leads to
other rooms, just that it's so short (a good two steps) that I hesitate
to call it anything -way.
My last apartment had nothing of the sort, you stepped right into the
living room.
That, on the other hand, saves space. It may have disadvantages.

"The heating system was a farce, depending as it did on registers in the floor
wherefrom the tepid exhalations of a throbbing and groaning basement
furnace were transmitted to the rooms with the faintness of a moribund's
last breath. By occluding the apertures upstairs I attempted to give more
energy to the register in the living room but its climate proved to be incurably
vitiated by there being nothing between it and the arctic regions save a
sleezy front door without a vestige of vestibule - either because the house
had been built in midsummer by a naïve settler who could not imagine the
kind of winter New Wye had in store for him, or because old-time gentility
required that a chance caller at the open door could satisfy himself from
the threshold that nothing unseemly was going on in the parlor."

--Nabokov, /Pale Fire/
--
Jerry Friedman
Quinn C
2021-04-28 23:09:04 UTC
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Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
I was comparing it to many a North American apartment I've seen that
wasted much more space on a long, narrow hallway that can't be used for
anything at all, because not even a shoe rack can be placed safely. Like
my very first Montreal apartment.

In comparison, the small central rectangle could hold a shoe rack, an
umbrella stand, a mirror (with enough room to see oneself), a little
table with the telephone ...

I had three apartments of fairly equal size in a row, one in Japan, one
in Germany, then one in Canada; the usable area got smaller at each
step.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Quinn C
My current apartment is a bit like
that, but there's still two parts to the space: the part just inside the
door, with a closet for coats,
And I keep my bicycle there.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Quinn C
and then a narrower portion that leads to
other rooms, just that it's so short (a good two steps) that I hesitate
to call it anything -way.
My last apartment had nothing of the sort, you stepped right into the
living room.
That, on the other hand, saves space. It may have disadvantages.
"The heating system was a farce, depending as it did on registers in the floor
wherefrom the tepid exhalations of a throbbing and groaning basement
furnace were transmitted to the rooms with the faintness of a moribund's
last breath. By occluding the apertures upstairs I attempted to give more
energy to the register in the living room but its climate proved to be incurably
vitiated by there being nothing between it and the arctic regions save a
sleezy front door without a vestige of vestibule [...]
--Nabokov, /Pale Fire/
That was not a problem; the cold wouldn't find its way through the
double doors at the building entrance and then three flights up.
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-29 03:08:18 UTC
Reply
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Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
I was comparing it to many a North American apartment I've seen that
wasted much more space on a long, narrow hallway that can't be used for
anything at all, because not even a shoe rack can be placed safely. Like
my very first Montreal apartment.
...

OK, there are ways to waste more space. I'm not sure I've ever seen that
in an apartment, but probably in a house or two. (But there aren't may
apartments where I live.)

I suspect that those long narrow hallways are found mostly in older
buildings, and most people now think of them as wasteful.
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Quinn C
My last apartment had nothing of the sort, you stepped right into the
living room.
That, on the other hand, saves space. It may have disadvantages.
"The heating system was a farce, depending as it did on registers in the floor
wherefrom the tepid exhalations of a throbbing and groaning basement
furnace were transmitted to the rooms with the faintness of a moribund's
last breath. By occluding the apertures upstairs I attempted to give more
energy to the register in the living room but its climate proved to be incurably
vitiated by there being nothing between it and the arctic regions save a
sleezy front door without a vestige of vestibule [...]
--Nabokov, /Pale Fire/
That was not a problem; the cold wouldn't find its way through the
double doors at the building entrance and then three flights up.
And if there had been anything unseemly going on in the "parlor" and
anyone had called at that time, they wouldn't have minded.
--
Jerry Friedman
Lewis
2021-04-29 05:16:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
I was comparing it to many a North American apartment I've seen that
wasted much more space on a long, narrow hallway that can't be used for
anything at all, because not even a shoe rack can be placed safely. Like
my very first Montreal apartment.
...
OK, there are ways to waste more space. I'm not sure I've ever seen that
in an apartment, but probably in a house or two. (But there aren't may
apartments where I live.)
I suspect that those long narrow hallways are found mostly in older
buildings, and most people now think of them as wasteful.
Not really.

For example, one apartment that I was in not that long ago opened into a
long hallway with doors on the right side. First door was a closet,
second was a bathroom, third was a bedroom, fourth was a bedroom. Then
the hallway opened up into a larger area that had a small living room and
the kitchen, divided by a bar height counter. The apartment next door
was a mirror image.

But most new construction, especially y the large complexes that are on
the lower end of the rental market, the door opens directly into a
living room with a divided kitchen area and then connections to the
bedrooms and bathroom. These will almost always still involve a hallway.
--
I WILL NOT PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO BART Bart chalkboard Ep. 7F09
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-29 16:04:35 UTC
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Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
I was comparing it to many a North American apartment I've seen that
wasted much more space on a long, narrow hallway that can't be used for
anything at all, because not even a shoe rack can be placed safely. Like
my very first Montreal apartment.
...
OK, there are ways to waste more space. I'm not sure I've ever seen that
in an apartment, but probably in a house or two. (But there aren't may
apartments where I live.)
I suspect that those long narrow hallways are found mostly in older
buildings, and most people now think of them as wasteful.
Not really.
For example, one apartment that I was in not that long ago opened into a
long hallway with doors on the right side. First door was a closet,
second was a bathroom, third was a bedroom, fourth was a bedroom. Then
the hallway opened up into a larger area that had a small living room and
the kitchen, divided by a bar height counter. The apartment next door
was a mirror image.
Sounds wasteful and rather weird to me, but from your "Not really," I
assume it was fairly recent and the tenants don't object.
Post by Lewis
But most new construction, especially y the large complexes that are on
the lower end of the rental market, the door opens directly into a
living room with a divided kitchen area and then connections to the
bedrooms and bathroom. These will almost always still involve a hallway.
OK, you have more experience than I do.
--
Jerry Friedman
Lewis
2021-04-29 18:27:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
I was comparing it to many a North American apartment I've seen that
wasted much more space on a long, narrow hallway that can't be used for
anything at all, because not even a shoe rack can be placed safely. Like
my very first Montreal apartment.
...
OK, there are ways to waste more space. I'm not sure I've ever seen that
in an apartment, but probably in a house or two. (But there aren't may
apartments where I live.)
I suspect that those long narrow hallways are found mostly in older
buildings, and most people now think of them as wasteful.
Not really.
For example, one apartment that I was in not that long ago opened into a
long hallway with doors on the right side. First door was a closet,
second was a bathroom, third was a bedroom, fourth was a bedroom. Then
the hallway opened up into a larger area that had a small living room and
the kitchen, divided by a bar height counter. The apartment next door
was a mirror image.
Sounds wasteful and rather weird to me, but from your "Not really," I
assume it was fairly recent and the tenants don't object.
I'm not sure how it is wasteful. The alternative is to reach the living
room./kitchen by going through a bathroom and two bedrooms.

And halls are useful space for putting things like your coats, bikes,
and/or bookcases.
--
I do believe Marsellus Wallace, my husband, your boss, told you to
take *me* out and do *whatever I wanted*. Now I wanna dance, I
wanna win. I want that trophy, so dance good.
Ken Blake
2021-04-29 18:35:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
I was comparing it to many a North American apartment I've seen that
wasted much more space on a long, narrow hallway that can't be used for
anything at all, because not even a shoe rack can be placed safely. Like
my very first Montreal apartment.
...
OK, there are ways to waste more space. I'm not sure I've ever seen that
in an apartment, but probably in a house or two. (But there aren't may
apartments where I live.)
I suspect that those long narrow hallways are found mostly in older
buildings, and most people now think of them as wasteful.
Not really.
For example, one apartment that I was in not that long ago opened into a
long hallway with doors on the right side. First door was a closet,
second was a bathroom, third was a bedroom, fourth was a bedroom. Then
the hallway opened up into a larger area that had a small living room and
the kitchen, divided by a bar height counter. The apartment next door
was a mirror image.
Sounds wasteful and rather weird to me, but from your "Not really," I
assume it was fairly recent and the tenants don't object.
I'm not sure how it is wasteful. The alternative is to reach the living
room./kitchen by going through a bathroom and two bedrooms.
And halls are useful space for putting things like your coats, bikes,
and/or bookcases.
We have one hall in our house. It's lined with bookcases.
--
Ken
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-29 21:32:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
I was comparing it to many a North American apartment I've seen that
wasted much more space on a long, narrow hallway that can't be used for
anything at all, because not even a shoe rack can be placed safely. Like
my very first Montreal apartment.
...
OK, there are ways to waste more space. I'm not sure I've ever seen that
in an apartment, but probably in a house or two. (But there aren't may
apartments where I live.)
I suspect that those long narrow hallways are found mostly in older
buildings, and most people now think of them as wasteful.
Not really.
For example, one apartment that I was in not that long ago opened into a
long hallway with doors on the right side. First door was a closet,
second was a bathroom, third was a bedroom, fourth was a bedroom. Then
the hallway opened up into a larger area that had a small living room and
the kitchen, divided by a bar height counter. The apartment next door
was a mirror image.
Sounds wasteful and rather weird to me, but from your "Not really," I
assume it was fairly recent and the tenants don't object.
I'm not sure how it is wasteful. The alternative is to reach the living
room./kitchen by going through a bathroom and two bedrooms.
Why not reach the kitchen, bathroom, and bedrooms from the living room? All the apartments I've lived in have been like that, as far as I remember, or maybe you had to go through a bedroom to get to the bathroom.
Post by Lewis
And halls are useful space for putting things like your coats, bikes,
and/or bookcases.
Halls seem like the place for a bike where it's most likely to get in your way. I can certainly see having the other things there.
--
Jerry Friedman
Lewis
2021-04-29 22:42:19 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
I was comparing it to many a North American apartment I've seen that
wasted much more space on a long, narrow hallway that can't be used for
anything at all, because not even a shoe rack can be placed safely. Like
my very first Montreal apartment.
...
OK, there are ways to waste more space. I'm not sure I've ever seen that
in an apartment, but probably in a house or two. (But there aren't may
apartments where I live.)
I suspect that those long narrow hallways are found mostly in older
buildings, and most people now think of them as wasteful.
Not really.
For example, one apartment that I was in not that long ago opened into a
long hallway with doors on the right side. First door was a closet,
second was a bathroom, third was a bedroom, fourth was a bedroom. Then
the hallway opened up into a larger area that had a small living room and
the kitchen, divided by a bar height counter. The apartment next door
was a mirror image.
Sounds wasteful and rather weird to me, but from your "Not really," I
assume it was fairly recent and the tenants don't object.
I'm not sure how it is wasteful. The alternative is to reach the living
room./kitchen by going through a bathroom and two bedrooms.
Why not reach the kitchen, bathroom, and bedrooms from the living
room? All the apartments I've lived in have been like that, as far as
I remember, or maybe you had to go through a bedroom to get to the
bathroom.
That is how some apartments are laid out, and may even be the more
common in newer construction, but there are certainly disadvantages to
having your main room being the room with your outside door. And I know
I would never want to have an apartment where the only bathroom required
walking through a bedroom.
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
And halls are useful space for putting things like your coats, bikes,
and/or bookcases.
Halls seem like the place for a bike where it's most likely to get in
your way. I can certainly see having the other things there.
If you're in an apartment there are not a lot of places to put a bike,
and you want it close to your door so you do not have to maneuver it
through the apartment. A couple of hooks on the hallway wall are a
fairly common location.
--
"Love is like war: easy to begin but very hard to stop." - H. L.
Mencken
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-30 03:34:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
I was comparing it to many a North American apartment I've seen that
wasted much more space on a long, narrow hallway that can't be used for
anything at all, because not even a shoe rack can be placed safely. Like
my very first Montreal apartment.
...
OK, there are ways to waste more space. I'm not sure I've ever seen that
in an apartment, but probably in a house or two. (But there aren't may
apartments where I live.)
I suspect that those long narrow hallways are found mostly in older
buildings, and most people now think of them as wasteful.
Not really.
For example, one apartment that I was in not that long ago opened into a
long hallway with doors on the right side. First door was a closet,
second was a bathroom, third was a bedroom, fourth was a bedroom. Then
the hallway opened up into a larger area that had a small living room and
the kitchen, divided by a bar height counter. The apartment next door
was a mirror image.
Sounds wasteful and rather weird to me, but from your "Not really," I
assume it was fairly recent and the tenants don't object.
I'm not sure how it is wasteful. The alternative is to reach the living
room./kitchen by going through a bathroom and two bedrooms.
Why not reach the kitchen, bathroom, and bedrooms from the living
room? All the apartments I've lived in have been like that, as far as
I remember, or maybe you had to go through a bedroom to get to the
bathroom.
That is how some apartments are laid out, and may even be the more
common in newer construction, but there are certainly disadvantages to
having your main room being the room with your outside door. And I know
I would never want to have an apartment where the only bathroom required
walking through a bedroom.
Yes, that's not the best.
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
And halls are useful space for putting things like your coats, bikes,
and/or bookcases.
Halls seem like the place for a bike where it's most likely to get in
your way. I can certainly see having the other things there.
If you're in an apartment there are not a lot of places to put a bike,
and you want it close to your door so you do not have to maneuver it
through the apartment. A couple of hooks on the hallway wall are a
fairly common location.
That would certainly help.

I can't even remember where I kept my bike the one year I rode one to
work. (I was sharing a house that didn't have a hallway.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Moylan
2021-04-30 11:46:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
For example, one apartment that I was in not that long ago opened
into a long hallway with doors on the right side. First door was a
closet, second was a bathroom, third was a bedroom, fourth was a
bedroom. Then the hallway opened up into a larger area that had a
small living room and the kitchen, divided by a bar height
counter. The apartment next door was a mirror image.
Sounds wasteful and rather weird to me, but from your "Not really,"
I assume it was fairly recent and the tenants don't object.
To decide whether it's wasteful or not, you'd have to look at the
adjoining apartments as well, to see whether they put constraints on the
shape of the first apartment. You'd also have to consider things like
the plumbing arrangements for the whole building. Building design is
largely a matter of juggling constraints.

My last house was half of a duplex, and my neighbour's house was the
mirror image of mine. My front door opened into the living room, then
there was a hallway that passed between the bedrooms, and opened out at
the other end into the kitchen/dining area. This worked well enough, and
made sense given the size of the block.

My present house is open-plan in the public living areas, such that from
the front door you can see through several rooms all the way to the back
door. (I had to walk to the front door to double-check that.) But off
the side of the living room there is an interior corridor that gives
access to three bedrooms [1], a bathroom, and a laundry. It's
a part of the house that guests don't see unless we give them a tour,
and the interior corridor is a necessary part of giving access to all
the rooms.

[1] Theoretically we have five bedrooms, but most of them aren't used as
bedrooms. I'm sitting in one of them right now, and the furniture
consists of desks, chairs, a filing cabinet, and bookshelves.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Quinn C
2021-04-30 14:02:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
My last house was half of a duplex, and my neighbour's house was the
mirror image of mine.
Here I had to do two double-takes based on the places where I've lived.

First I had to understand that your "duplex" is side-by-side, and not
stacked like a Montreal "duplex" (I think side by side would be called
"semi-detached"). Then when I got that "it's more like in Germany", I
had to understand that your neighbor still has "a house", and not only
"half a duplex" as we'd say in German (Doppelhaushälfte).
--
Who would know aught of art must learn and then take his ease.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-30 15:24:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Moylan
My last house was half of a duplex, and my neighbour's house was the
mirror image of mine.
Here I had to do two double-takes based on the places where I've lived.
First I had to understand that your "duplex" is side-by-side, and not
stacked like a Montreal "duplex" (I think side by side would be called
"semi-detached").
Oh, hey, that's almost the NYC term, "semi-attached." Here, a duplex
is one apartment on two floors of the building (there are even triplexes
in the most luxurious ones on Fifth Avenue and Central Park West).
In most of the US, "duplex" is "two side-by-side."
Post by Quinn C
Then when I got that "it's more like in Germany", I
had to understand that your neighbor still has "a house", and not only
"half a duplex" as we'd say in German (Doppelhaushälfte).
Quinn C
2021-04-30 16:48:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Moylan
My last house was half of a duplex, and my neighbour's house was the
mirror image of mine.
Here I had to do two double-takes based on the places where I've lived.
First I had to understand that your "duplex" is side-by-side, and not
stacked like a Montreal "duplex" (I think side by side would be called
"semi-detached").
Oh, hey, that's almost the NYC term, "semi-attached."
I say Montrealers have the glass half full approach within this couple
of terms.
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-30 16:09:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Moylan
My last house was half of a duplex, and my neighbour's house was the
mirror image of mine.
Here I had to do two double-takes based on the places where I've lived.
First I had to understand that your "duplex" is side-by-side, and not
stacked like a Montreal "duplex" (I think side by side would be called
"semi-detached"). Then when I got that "it's more like in Germany", I
had to understand that your neighbor still has "a house", and not only
"half a duplex" as we'd say in German (Doppelhaushälfte).
...

Where I grew up, in the suburbs of Cleveland, the stacked one is called a
"two-family". The side-by-side one is probably called a "townhouse",
though I don't remember any there.
--
Jerry Friedman
Adam Funk
2021-04-30 16:46:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Moylan
My last house was half of a duplex, and my neighbour's house was the
mirror image of mine.
Here I had to do two double-takes based on the places where I've lived.
First I had to understand that your "duplex" is side-by-side, and not
stacked like a Montreal "duplex" (I think side by side would be called
"semi-detached"). Then when I got that "it's more like in Germany", I
An AmE [1] "duplex" is a pair of side-by-side
houses with one wall in common. In BrE that's a pair of "semi-detached
houses".

[1] At least in my dialect --- if it means something else in Montreal,
it might vary within the US.
Post by Quinn C
had to understand that your neighbor still has "a house", and not only
"half a duplex" as we'd say in German (Doppelhaushälfte).
But half of a double-house *is* one house!
--
Mrs CJ and I avoid clichés like the plague.
Tony Cooper
2021-04-30 17:35:12 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Moylan
My last house was half of a duplex, and my neighbour's house was the
mirror image of mine.
Here I had to do two double-takes based on the places where I've lived.
First I had to understand that your "duplex" is side-by-side, and not
stacked like a Montreal "duplex" (I think side by side would be called
"semi-detached"). Then when I got that "it's more like in Germany", I
An AmE [1] "duplex" is a pair of side-by-side
houses with one wall in common. In BrE that's a pair of "semi-detached
houses".
[1] At least in my dialect --- if it means something else in Montreal,
it might vary within the US.
Post by Quinn C
had to understand that your neighbor still has "a house", and not only
"half a duplex" as we'd say in German (Doppelhaushälfte).
But half of a double-house *is* one house!
While "duplex" is the common term now in the US, when I grew up they
were "doubles" in Indianapolis.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Ken Blake
2021-04-30 18:18:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Quinn C
Post by Peter Moylan
My last house was half of a duplex, and my neighbour's house was the
mirror image of mine.
Here I had to do two double-takes based on the places where I've lived.
First I had to understand that your "duplex" is side-by-side, and not
stacked like a Montreal "duplex" (I think side by side would be called
"semi-detached"). Then when I got that "it's more like in Germany", I
An AmE [1] "duplex" is a pair of side-by-side
houses with one wall in common. In BrE that's a pair of "semi-detached
houses".
It's also a pair of "semi-detached houses" in AmE, at least in some
parts of the USA.
--
Ken
Mark Brader
2021-04-30 23:46:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Adam Funk
An AmE [1] "duplex" is a pair of side-by-side
houses with one wall in common. In BrE that's a pair of "semi-detached
houses".
It's also a pair of "semi-detached houses" in AmE, at least in some
parts of the USA.
I think it was a "duplex" when I lived in Edmonton in the 1960s, but
it a pair of "semi-detached houses" -- or a pair of "semis" -- here
in Toronto. There are several on my block.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto Carpe pecuniam!
***@vex.net --Roger L. Smith
Quinn C
2021-04-30 21:09:15 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Quinn C
had to understand that your neighbor still has "a house", and not only
"half a duplex" as we'd say in German (Doppelhaushälfte).
But half of a double-house *is* one house!
You go play half a double bass, then.

As we say in the German group, language isn't logical, it's practical.
"A house" defaults to "a detached house" in German.
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Quinn C
2021-04-29 12:38:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Quinn C
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
I was comparing it to many a North American apartment I've seen that
wasted much more space on a long, narrow hallway that can't be used for
anything at all, because not even a shoe rack can be placed safely. Like
my very first Montreal apartment.
...
OK, there are ways to waste more space. I'm not sure I've ever seen that
in an apartment, but probably in a house or two. (But there aren't may
apartments where I live.)
Everything I was comparing was built before 1970, I'm pretty sure.

Climate and social conventions sure play roles in all this. For example,
at the time that German apartment was built, it was customary to want to
have a door for each room (including the kitchen). Those big open spaces
that are popular now would've felt both expensive to heat and I think
disconcerting, lacking in hygge.

If you expect that, a small central hub is space-saving compared to a
stretched-out hallway.
--
Are you sure your sanity chip is fully screwed in, Sir?
-- Kryten to Rimmer (Red Dwarf)
Lewis
2021-04-29 02:34:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that would be
a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other non-porous easy
to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes, and hooks for winter
clothes.
--
Minds are like parachutes, they only work when they are open.
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-29 03:01:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that would be
a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other non-porous easy
to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes, and hooks for winter
clothes.
Is that common in apartments? Though I call my place an apartment, and
it has two doors to the outside, so if we had more mud here you could
wall off a mud room.

Google mostly finds hits on that horrible Pinterest thing.
--
Jerry Friedman
Lewis
2021-04-29 05:06:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that would be
a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other non-porous easy
to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes, and hooks for winter
clothes.
Is that common in apartments? Though I call my place an apartment, and
it has two doors to the outside, so if we had more mud here you could
wall off a mud room.
Google mostly finds hits on that horrible Pinterest thing.
I would guess that if you have an entrance from the outside, and you
live in a region where there is a season named "mudtime" you need a
mudroom. But it's a guess. We have a very small entry way that is at a
lower level than the ground floor (one step lower) that opens onto the
front door and the door to the garage. It's too small to call it a
mudroom, and the term is not common here (though not unknown) but that is
its basic function, a place to take off wet clothes and wet shoes before
stepping into the house. It lacks a bench to sit on when changing
shoes, so it's a bit limited, but it has a open closet for coats and dog
leashes and winter boots.
--
Man is born free, but is everywhere in chains.
Tony Cooper
2021-04-29 14:49:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 05:06:42 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that would be
a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other non-porous easy
to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes, and hooks for winter
clothes.
Is that common in apartments? Though I call my place an apartment, and
it has two doors to the outside, so if we had more mud here you could
wall off a mud room.
Google mostly finds hits on that horrible Pinterest thing.
I would guess that if you have an entrance from the outside, and you
live in a region where there is a season named "mudtime" you need a
mudroom. But it's a guess. We have a very small entry way that is at a
lower level than the ground floor (one step lower) that opens onto the
front door and the door to the garage. It's too small to call it a
mudroom, and the term is not common here (though not unknown) but that is
its basic function, a place to take off wet clothes and wet shoes before
stepping into the house. It lacks a bench to sit on when changing
shoes, so it's a bit limited, but it has a open closet for coats and dog
leashes and winter boots.
Our house in Buffalo Grove IL had a mudroom. That was how it was
labeled on the floorplan, and that was the function. There was a door
leading to the garage and a door leading to the backyard and a door to
the kitchen. It's been almost 50 years since we lived in that house,
but I remember it as being about 10' by 10'. The washer and dryer was
in that room.

All of the houses in that subdivision had mudrooms, but there were
several different floorplans.

I would not be surprised, if you could find the floorplans, that most
of the new homes built in the Chicago suburban subdivisions in that
era had mudrooms.

I would not be surprised if the floorplans of the homes now being
constructed in the Chicago suburban subdivisions have a room with a
similar function, but some new term on the floorplan. "Mudroom" is
not classy enough.

The house we purchased in the Orlando suburban subdivision in 1972
(new construction) had a similar room between the garage and the
kitchen, but it was labeled "Laundry room" on the floorplan. Not so
much of a problem with mud and snow in Florida.

Incidently, that Buffalo Grove house was a three-bedroom, two bath,
ranch-style house with a full basement and we purchased it about
$27,500 before the construction was completed. We had to wait a month
before it was completed. The houses in that subdivision, built in
the early 1970s, now sell for around $300,000.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-29 16:19:05 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Lewis
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
Post by Quinn C
In my last apartment in Germany, when you entered, you found yourself in
a small rectangular room with doors going in every direction: kitchen to
the left, bathroom to the right, living room and bedroom in front of
you.
That's a common, space-saving arrangement in Germany, but not so much in
North America, in my experience.
Many North Americans think of it as a space-wasting arrangement.
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that would be
a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other non-porous easy
to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes, and hooks for winter
clothes.
Is that common in apartments? Though I call my place an apartment, and
it has two doors to the outside, so if we had more mud here you could
wall off a mud room.
Google mostly finds hits on that horrible Pinterest thing.
In relation to apartments, I mean.
Post by Lewis
I would guess that if you have an entrance from the outside, and you
live in a region where there is a season named "mudtime" you need a
mudroom. But it's a guess.
We have a very small entry way that is at a
lower level than the ground floor (one step lower) that opens onto the
front door and the door to the garage. It's too small to call it a
mudroom, and the term is not common here (though not unknown) but that is
its basic function, a place to take off wet clothes and wet shoes before
stepping into the house. It lacks a bench to sit on when changing
shoes, so it's a bit limited, but it has a open closet for coats and dog
leashes and winter boots.
My mother's house has something very similar at the side door, except
that her garage is detached. It has steps down to the basement and two
steps up to a small inconvenient hallway leading to the kitchen and
living room. You can sit on the steps to take off your wet shoes.
We've never had any name for that space, but "entryway" works.

As she gets older, I'm starting to wonder whether she may need a ramp
over those steps.
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-29 11:58:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that would be
a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other non-porous easy
to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes, and hooks for winter
clothes.
No, not in "the Northeast." I was puzzled by the term when I started seeing
it in those big books of suburban house-plan kits you could order from the
back of the book.

It seems to be a space inside the back door where you take off your
wet outerwear so you don't track mud etc. into the house.
charles
2021-04-29 12:38:49 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that would be
a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other non-porous
easy to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes, and hooks for
winter clothes.
No, not in "the Northeast." I was puzzled by the term when I started
seeing it in those big books of suburban house-plan kits you could order
from the back of the book.
It seems to be a space inside the back door where you take off your wet
outerwear so you don't track mud etc. into the house.
here we call that space "The lobby"
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-29 15:03:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that would be
a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other non-porous
easy to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes, and hooks for
winter clothes.
No, not in "the Northeast." I was puzzled by the term when I started
seeing it in those big books of suburban house-plan kits you could order
from the back of the book.
It seems to be a space inside the back door where you take off your wet
outerwear so you don't track mud etc. into the house.
here we call that space "The lobby"
(a) of a private house? (b) at the _back_ door?
charles
2021-04-29 15:44:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that
would be a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other
non-porous easy to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes,
and hooks for winter clothes.
No, not in "the Northeast." I was puzzled by the term when I started
seeing it in those big books of suburban house-plan kits you could
order from the back of the book. It seems to be a space inside the
back door where you take off your wet outerwear so you don't track
mud etc. into the house.
here we call that space "The lobby"
(a) of a private house? (b) at the _back_ door?
Yes, a private house. It's the dooe we call the back door, as opposed to
the front door.(even if it, too, opens to the front of the house, but out
of sight from the road)
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-04-29 20:52:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 16:44:33 +0100
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that
would be a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other
non-porous easy to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes,
and hooks for winter clothes.
No, not in "the Northeast." I was puzzled by the term when I started
seeing it in those big books of suburban house-plan kits you could
order from the back of the book. It seems to be a space inside the
back door where you take off your wet outerwear so you don't track
mud etc. into the house.
here we call that space "The lobby"
(a) of a private house? (b) at the _back_ door?
Yes, a private house. It's the dooe we call the back door, as opposed to
the front door.(even if it, too, opens to the front of the house, but out
of sight from the road)
Would a porch or atrium or conservatory do as well?

Our house was made with a entry area, with the intention of changing foot & wet weather gear before going out/in; but it's too much faff for everyday use, needing 2 keys, so we go round the back and drag dirt into the kitchen instead. Some Day Soon (yeah right) I'll set up a canopy at the back/kitchen door.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Peter Moylan
2021-04-30 12:06:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that
would be a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other
non-porous easy to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes,
and hooks for winter clothes.
No, not in "the Northeast." I was puzzled by the term when I started
seeing it in those big books of suburban house-plan kits you could
order from the back of the book.
Is there a clear definition of the North-East when talking about US
geography? I tend to think of it as that little corner bit that includes
Vermont and New Hampshire and Maine, and maybe parts of New York state,
but probably not Boswash.

I've been in Boston and I've been in Montpelier, and those two feel as
if they're not even part of the same country.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Adam Funk
2021-04-30 13:22:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that
would be a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other
non-porous easy to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes,
and hooks for winter clothes.
No, not in "the Northeast." I was puzzled by the term when I started
seeing it in those big books of suburban house-plan kits you could
order from the back of the book.
Is there a clear definition of the North-East when talking about US
geography? I tend to think of it as that little corner bit that includes
No, it depends on where you're talking from (a bit like the sequence
of definitions of "yankee").
Post by Peter Moylan
Vermont and New Hampshire and Maine, and maybe parts of New York state,
but probably not Boswash.
I've been in Boston and I've been in Montpelier, and those two feel as
if they're not even part of the same country.
--
The public has been sold a bill of goods about the free market being
a panacea for mankind. Turning corporations loose and letting the
profit motive run amok is not a prescription for a more livable
world. ---Tom Scholz
Jerry Friedman
2021-04-30 13:44:25 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that
would be a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other
non-porous easy to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes,
and hooks for winter clothes.
No, not in "the Northeast." I was puzzled by the term when I started
seeing it in those big books of suburban house-plan kits you could
order from the back of the book.
Is there a clear definition of the North-East when talking about US
geography?
No.

For some people New York City is essential to the Northeast, but I knew a New
Englander who objected to including it at all.

The definitions listed at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeastern_United_States

are

New England (the six states east of New York)

plus New York

plus New Jersey and Pennsylvania

plus Delaware

plus Maryland and Washington, DC.

A college friend in the '80s said "the North" had spread south of DC into
its Virginia suburbs. I think he said the boundary was then at Manassas,
but I'd have to look at a map to see where Manassas (site of Civil War
battles) is.
Post by Peter Moylan
I tend to think of it as that little corner bit that includes
Vermont and New Hampshire and Maine, and maybe parts of New York state,
but probably not Boswash.
I've never heard a definition that restrictive.
Post by Peter Moylan
I've been in Boston and I've been in Montpelier, and those two feel as
if they're not even part of the same country.
I'll bet you could find pairs of places like that in Australia.
--
Jerry Friedman
bil...@shaw.ca
2021-04-30 23:46:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that
would be a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other
non-porous easy to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes,
and hooks for winter clothes.
No, not in "the Northeast." I was puzzled by the term when I started
seeing it in those big books of suburban house-plan kits you could
order from the back of the book.
Is there a clear definition of the North-East when talking about US
geography?
No.
For some people New York City is essential to the Northeast, but I knew a New
Englander who objected to including it at all.
The definitions listed at
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeastern_United_States
are
New England (the six states east of New York)
plus New York
plus New Jersey and Pennsylvania
plus Delaware
plus Maryland and Washington, DC.
A college friend in the '80s said "the North" had spread south of DC into
its Virginia suburbs. I think he said the boundary was then at Manassas,
but I'd have to look at a map to see where Manassas (site of Civil War
battles) is.
Post by Peter Moylan
I tend to think of it as that little corner bit that includes
Vermont and New Hampshire and Maine, and maybe parts of New York state,
but probably not Boswash.
I've never heard a definition that restrictive.
When there are no formally designated boundaries that are drawn on maps, all the possibilities
are on the table. I did a small project for my newspaper shortly before I retired, asking what
"the Lower Mainland" mean. It's a phrase everyone in British Columbia uses, but it's not
on the map and there is nothing like a consensus as to what it means. Everyone agreed that
Greater/Metro Vancouver was part or all of it, but there was disagreement about whether
municipalities north of Vancouver should be included, how far into the Fraser Valley the LM
extends, and whether Point Roberts, the little American appendix dangling across the 49th
Parallel, was part of it.

The most common suggestion was that the Lower Mainland is the same as Greater Vancouver,
a.k.a. Metro Vancouver, a grouping of 20-odd entities each with its own municipal government,
including Vancouver and the "North Shore" communities, and extending east into the Fraser Valley.
I ended up on the phone with the head of geography at the University of B.C., who said that
because the Lower Mainland is not a legal entity and is not on the map, it doesn't exist. And that means
people can claim it is whatever they want. You can't get it wrong, but you can get into an argument about it.

bill
Quinn C
2021-04-30 14:06:22 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that
would be a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other
non-porous easy to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes,
and hooks for winter clothes.
No, not in "the Northeast." I was puzzled by the term when I started
seeing it in those big books of suburban house-plan kits you could
order from the back of the book.
Is there a clear definition of the North-East when talking about US
geography?
Yes.
Post by Peter Moylan
I tend to think of it as that little corner bit that includes
Vermont and New Hampshire and Maine, and maybe parts of New York state,
but probably not Boswash.
I've been in Boston and I've been in Montpelier, and those two feel as
if they're not even part of the same country.
Maybe comparing a 5 million people metropolis to an 8,000 people rural
town isn't ideal.
--
Was den Juengeren fehlt, sind keine Botschaften, es ist der Sinn
fuer Zusammenhaenge. [Young people aren't short of messages, but
of a sense for interconnections.]
-- Helen Feng im Zeit-Interview
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-30 19:41:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that
would be a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other
non-porous easy to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes,
and hooks for winter clothes.
No, not in "the Northeast." I was puzzled by the term when I started
seeing it in those big books of suburban house-plan kits you could
order from the back of the book.
Is there a clear definition of the North-East when talking about US
geography?
Yes.
I don't know about the US, but by analogy I would suggest that it could
vary quite a lot, and would depend upon where (i.e. in which state) the
conversation is taking place.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Quinn C
2021-04-30 21:09:06 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that
would be a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other
non-porous easy to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes,
and hooks for winter clothes.
No, not in "the Northeast." I was puzzled by the term when I started
seeing it in those big books of suburban house-plan kits you could
order from the back of the book.
Is there a clear definition of the North-East when talking about US
geography?
Yes.
I don't know about the US, but by analogy I would suggest that it could
vary quite a lot, and would depend upon where (i.e. in which state) the
conversation is taking place.
To be pedantic, there is a clear definition for official purposes, but
as we have been reading from various Americans, that's not the only
definition people use in real life.
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-30 15:21:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Depends on where you are. In the North-East, for example, that
would be a "mud room" and would be tiled (probably, or some other
non-porous easy to clean surface) and have racks for boots, shoes,
and hooks for winter clothes.
No, not in "the Northeast." I was puzzled by the term when I started
seeing it in those big books of suburban house-plan kits you could
order from the back of the book.
Is there a clear definition of the North-East when talking about US
geography? I tend to think of it as that little corner bit that includes
Vermont and New Hampshire and Maine, and maybe parts of New York state,
but probably not Boswash.
New England (you named its three northern states) is the northeast
part of the Northeast.

Probably north of the Mason-Dixon Line (between Pennslyvania and
Maryland) and east of the Ohio River. If we're being charitable, we'll
allow Maryland and Delaware to be part of it.

The Mid-Atlantic is what's between the Northeast and the South.
It can include Virginia but not the Carolinas.
Post by Peter Moylan
I've been in Boston and I've been in Montpelier, and those two feel as
if they're not even part of the same country.
Ayyup. I think I've been in both Burlington and Bennington (photographed
Robert Frost's gravestone, which is somewhere in Vermont), but not
Montpelier. All small towns.
Stefan Ram
2021-04-27 23:32:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
...
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
Two candidates I now found are:

- the building's hallway, vs.
- the apartment's entryway.

This distinction does not so much rely on a possible
difference between "hallway" and "entryway", which to
some extend can be exchanged, but more on the explicit
clarification using "building's" versus "apartment's".

Here's one example written by presumed native speakers
of US English:

...
|Ellison was standing inside the apartment’s entryway with
|her neighbor Payne. Officer Hobbs entered Ellison’s
|apartment first, while Officer Condit, Paramedic Gasaway,
|and EMT Howard stood outside the front door in the hallway
...
|Officer Hobbs and Ellison moved into the building’s hallway
...

.
Tony Cooper
2021-04-27 23:55:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
...
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
- the building's hallway, vs.
- the apartment's entryway.
This distinction does not so much rely on a possible
difference between "hallway" and "entryway", which to
some extend can be exchanged, but more on the explicit
clarification using "building's" versus "apartment's".
Here's one example written by presumed native speakers
...
|Ellison was standing inside the apartment’s entryway with
|her neighbor Payne. Officer Hobbs entered Ellison’s
|apartment first, while Officer Condit, Paramedic Gasaway,
|and EMT Howard stood outside the front door in the hallway
...
|Officer Hobbs and Ellison moved into the building’s hallway
...
In my view, a hallway leads somewhere and there are rooms off the
hallway. An entryway is what you step into after entering the front
door. A hallway may be off the entryway.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-04-28 10:49:47 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 19:55:18 -0400
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
...
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
- the building's hallway, vs.
- the apartment's entryway.
This distinction does not so much rely on a possible
difference between "hallway" and "entryway", which to
some extend can be exchanged, but more on the explicit
clarification using "building's" versus "apartment's".
Here's one example written by presumed native speakers
...
|Ellison was standing inside the apartment’s entryway with
|her neighbor Payne. Officer Hobbs entered Ellison’s
|apartment first, while Officer Condit, Paramedic Gasaway,
|and EMT Howard stood outside the front door in the hallway
...
|Officer Hobbs and Ellison moved into the building’s hallway
...
In my view, a hallway leads somewhere and there are rooms off the
hallway. An entryway is what you step into after entering the front
door. A hallway may be off the entryway.
I've not encountered 'Entryway' in *UK*E.

Perhaps The Big Bang Theory uses a name.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Tony Cooper
2021-04-28 12:52:58 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 11:49:47 +0100, "Kerr-Mudd, John"
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 19:55:18 -0400
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
...
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
- the building's hallway, vs.
- the apartment's entryway.
This distinction does not so much rely on a possible
difference between "hallway" and "entryway", which to
some extend can be exchanged, but more on the explicit
clarification using "building's" versus "apartment's".
Here's one example written by presumed native speakers
...
|Ellison was standing inside the apartment’s entryway with
|her neighbor Payne. Officer Hobbs entered Ellison’s
|apartment first, while Officer Condit, Paramedic Gasaway,
|and EMT Howard stood outside the front door in the hallway
...
|Officer Hobbs and Ellison moved into the building’s hallway
...
In my view, a hallway leads somewhere and there are rooms off the
hallway. An entryway is what you step into after entering the front
door. A hallway may be off the entryway.
I've not encountered 'Entryway' in *UK*E.
Perhaps The Big Bang Theory uses a name.
While I recognize "entryway" as a word, what I actually see used is
just "Entry". Houseplans often label the area that a person first
enters the house as the "Entry" when that area is a space that leads
to the rest of the house and is not part of a room.

In a commercial building, where that space is larger, it is the
"foyer". While I haven't heard/seen it used for years, a closed-off
area that is the entry area can be called a "vestibule".

"Foyer" is also used on residential houseplans, but the word seems
old-fashioned to some, so "Entry" may replace it.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
HVS
2021-04-28 14:17:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Tue, 27 Apr 2021 19:55:18 -0400
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
...
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
- the building's hallway, vs.
- the apartment's entryway.
This distinction does not so much rely on a possible
difference between "hallway" and "entryway", which to
some extend can be exchanged, but more on the explicit
clarification using "building's" versus "apartment's".
Here's one example written by presumed native speakers
...
Post by Stefan Ram
Ellison was standing inside the apartment’s entryway with
her neighbor Payne. Officer Hobbs entered Ellison’s
apartment first, while Officer Condit, Paramedic Gasaway,
and EMT Howard stood outside the front door in the hallway
...
Post by Stefan Ram
Officer Hobbs and Ellison moved into the building’s hallway
...
In my view, a hallway leads somewhere and there are rooms off the
hallway. An entryway is what you step into after entering the front
door. A hallway may be off the entryway.
I've not encountered 'Entryway' in *UK*E.
On architectural plans -- whether for commercial, communal, or
private buildings -- I'd call that a "lobby".

There can be "outer lobbies" or "inner lobbies", but the
distinguishing feature is that a lobby leads to just a single next
room. If it has doors leading to more than one other room or space,
it's a "hallway" (or just a "hall").

The landing at the bottom or top of a staircase which has a couple of
doors to other rooms is a "staircase hall".
--
Cheers,
Harvey
Pamela
2021-04-28 12:55:38 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
apartment, but outside the apartments.)
Landing?
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
is part of the apartment.)
Lobby?
Chrysi Cat
2021-04-28 13:33:18 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Stefan Ram
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
apartment, but outside the apartments.)
Landing?
MAYBE, though the Americans including myself will reserve that for the
area where a flight of stairs (ends/turns around on itself, depending on
whether *your* "flight of stairs" can end between floors on only ON a floor.
Post by Pamela
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
is part of the apartment.)
Lobby?
I see the problem HERE. You're thinking of an apartment /building/ as
"an apartment", while the rest of us are using "an apartment" to mean
what you exclusively consider "a flat".

There is no WAY that a small 6-foot-wide-at-most section that leads back
into the main body of the flat is a foyer.

For the record, I consider both of them "hallways" despite someone's
insitence that that word can only ever apply to a hall in use for
transit and not for where one places inanimate objects, and don't have
separate words.

Then again, for ME a "hall" is basically what it is on a Clue[do]
board--yes, it's the public entry to a building, but it's much wider
than a hallway (and more often than not has a chandelier hanging into
it). Hallways can easily branch OFF of a hall, and do in our house,
which has more of a hall than a hallway behind the front doors that
leads directly to the living room, while hallWAYS branch off to each
other side nearer the entrance end of the hall than the "great room"
end. Our dog can easily block a hallway, but if he's lying in the hall,
you can go to one side and get around him easily.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Chrysi Cat
2021-04-28 13:41:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
   I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
   One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
   multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
   individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
   apartment, but outside the apartments.)
Landing?
MAYBE, though the Americans including myself will reserve that for the
area where a flight of stairs (ends/turns around on itself, depending on
whether *your* "flight of stairs" can end between floors on only ON a floor.
Post by Pamela
   One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
   door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
   is part of the apartment.)
Lobby?
I see the problem HERE. You're thinking of an apartment /building/ as
"an apartment", while the rest of us are using "an apartment" to mean
what you exclusively consider "a flat".
There is no WAY that a small 6-foot-wide-at-most section that leads back
into the main body of the flat is
a ||foyer^d^d^d|| a lobby. Those are reserved for multi-unit buildings,
not a unit IN a building.
Post by Chrysi Cat
For the record, I consider both of them "hallways" despite someone's
insitence that that word can only ever apply to a hall in use for
transit and not for where one places inanimate objects, and don't have
separate words.
Then again, for ME a "hall" is basically what it is on a Clue[do]
board--yes, it's the public entry to a building, but it's much wider
than a hallway (and more often than not has a chandelier hanging into
it). Hallways can easily branch OFF of a hall, and do in our house,
which has more of a hall than a hallway behind the front doors that
leads directly to the living room, while hallWAYS branch off to each
other side nearer the entrance end of the hall than the "great room"
end. Our dog can easily block a hallway, but if he's lying in the hall,
you can go to one side and get around him easily.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Pamela
2021-04-28 14:04:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
   I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
   One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
   multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
   individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
   apartment, but outside the apartments.)
Landing?
MAYBE, though the Americans including myself will reserve that
for the area where a flight of stairs (ends/turns around on
itself, depending on whether *your* "flight of stairs" can end
between floors on only ON a floor.
Post by Pamela
   One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the
front    door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This
hallway    is part of the apartment.)
Lobby?
I see the problem HERE. You're thinking of an apartment
/building/ as "an apartment", while the rest of us are using "an
apartment" to mean what you exclusively consider "a flat".
There is no WAY that a small 6-foot-wide-at-most section that
leads back into the main body of the flat is
a ||foyer^d^d^d|| a lobby. Those are reserved for multi-unit
buildings, not a unit IN a building.
https://www.google.com/search?q=define+lobby quotes from Oxford
Languages for the following.

"a room providing a space out of which one or more other rooms or
corridors lead, typically one near the entrance of a public
building."
Chrysi Cat
2021-04-28 14:08:29 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
   I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
   One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
   multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
   individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
   apartment, but outside the apartments.)
Landing?
MAYBE, though the Americans including myself will reserve that
for the area where a flight of stairs (ends/turns around on
itself, depending on whether *your* "flight of stairs" can end
between floors on only ON a floor.
Post by Pamela
   One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the
front    door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This
hallway    is part of the apartment.)
Lobby?
I see the problem HERE. You're thinking of an apartment
/building/ as "an apartment", while the rest of us are using "an
apartment" to mean what you exclusively consider "a flat".
There is no WAY that a small 6-foot-wide-at-most section that
leads back into the main body of the flat is
a ||foyer^d^d^d|| a lobby. Those are reserved for multi-unit
buildings, not a unit IN a building.
https://www.google.com/search?q=define+lobby quotes from Oxford
Languages for the following.
"a room providing a space out of which one or more other rooms or
corridors lead, typically one near the entrance of a public
building."
You're not reading your own citations.

TYPICALLY one near THE ENTRANCE OF A PUBLIC BUILDING.

"Lobby" may or may not be a valid term for a space inside a flat in
Scots and perhaps even in the English OF Scots.

It is NOT in any other country that I know of, though I'll admit I'm not
ENTIRELY sure that that holds in England or Wales.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Pamela
2021-04-28 19:13:11 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
   I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
   One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
   multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into
the    individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of
an    apartment, but outside the apartments.)
Landing?
MAYBE, though the Americans including myself will reserve that
for the area where a flight of stairs (ends/turns around on
itself, depending on whether *your* "flight of stairs" can end
between floors on only ON a floor.
Post by Pamela
   One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the
front    door, into which some of the other rooms open.
(This hallway    is part of the apartment.)
Lobby?
I see the problem HERE. You're thinking of an apartment
/building/ as "an apartment", while the rest of us are using
"an apartment" to mean what you exclusively consider "a flat".
There is no WAY that a small 6-foot-wide-at-most section that
leads back into the main body of the flat is
a ||foyer^d^d^d|| a lobby. Those are reserved for multi-unit
buildings, not a unit IN a building.
https://www.google.com/search?q=define+lobby quotes from Oxford
Languages for the following.
"a room providing a space out of which one or more other
rooms or corridors lead, typically one near the entrance of a
public building."
You're not reading your own citations.
TYPICALLY one near THE ENTRANCE OF A PUBLIC BUILDING.
"Typically" implies there are also non-typical instances, such as the
rather large apartment Stefan was referring to that can accomodate such
a structure. Maybe not exactly something Louis XIV would have owned but
still bigger tha usual.
Post by Chrysi Cat
"Lobby" may or may not be a valid term for a space inside a flat
in Scots and perhaps even in the English OF Scots.
It is NOT in any other country that I know of, though I'll admit
I'm not ENTIRELY sure that that holds in England or Wales.
Peter Moylan
2021-04-29 01:27:14 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
https://www.google.com/search?q=define+lobby quotes from Oxford
Languages for the following.
"a room providing a space out of which one or more other rooms or
corridors lead, typically one near the entrance of a public
building."
You're not reading your own citations.
TYPICALLY one near THE ENTRANCE OF A PUBLIC BUILDING.
"Lobby" may or may not be a valid term for a space inside a flat in
Scots and perhaps even in the English OF Scots.
It is NOT in any other country that I know of, though I'll admit I'm not
ENTIRELY sure that that holds in England or Wales.
For me a lobby is a fairly large space, big enough for several employees
to work there. Most commonly found in hotels.

I can conceive of an apartment building that had a lobby, but it would
be well above my price range.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Mark Brader
2021-04-29 03:20:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
For me a lobby is a fairly large space, big enough for several employees
to work there. Most commonly found in hotels.
I can conceive of an apartment building that had a lobby, but it would
be well above my price range.
To me "lobby" is the normal word for the place on the ground (first) floor
of an apartment building where you board the elevators. It usually also
includes a couple of armchairs or sofas so you can sit down while waiting
to meet somebody there, and, in season, an artificial Christmas tree.

I suppose they still make apartment buildings too low-rise to need
elevators, but I haven't been in one for decades.
--
Mark Brader | "It seems my sense of humour is out of step
Toronto | not only with rec.puzzles, but with reality itself."
***@vex.net | --Richard Heathfield

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Ken Blake
2021-04-29 14:04:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Peter Moylan
For me a lobby is a fairly large space, big enough for several employees
to work there. Most commonly found in hotels.
I can conceive of an apartment building that had a lobby, but it would
be well above my price range.
To me "lobby" is the normal word for the place on the ground (first) floor
of an apartment building where you board the elevators. It usually also
includes a couple of armchairs or sofas so you can sit down while waiting
to meet somebody there, and, in season, an artificial Christmas tree.
Same to me.
Post by Mark Brader
I suppose they still make apartment buildings too low-rise to need
elevators, but I haven't been in one for decades.
They're very common. My grandson lives in one.
--
Ken
Lewis
2021-04-29 05:08:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
https://www.google.com/search?q=define+lobby quotes from Oxford
Languages for the following.
"a room providing a space out of which one or more other rooms or
corridors lead, typically one near the entrance of a public
building."
You're not reading your own citations.
TYPICALLY one near THE ENTRANCE OF A PUBLIC BUILDING.
"Lobby" may or may not be a valid term for a space inside a flat in
Scots and perhaps even in the English OF Scots.
It is NOT in any other country that I know of, though I'll admit I'm not
ENTIRELY sure that that holds in England or Wales.
For me a lobby is a fairly large space, big enough for several employees
to work there. Most commonly found in hotels.
Or an office building might have a lobby as well, especially if it has a
desk and attendant.
Post by Peter Moylan
I can conceive of an apartment building that had a lobby, but it would
be well above my price range.
I've seen some on TV.
--
I DO NOT HAVE DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY Bart chalkboard Ep. 9F20
Pamela
2021-04-28 14:01:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
Post by Stefan Ram
I am looking for two /different/ words (or multi-word
One for a hallway (with a staircase) in a multistory
multi-apartment residential buildings with doors into the
individual apartments. (This hallway is not part of an
apartment, but outside the apartments.)
Landing?
MAYBE, though the Americans including myself will reserve that for
the area where a flight of stairs (ends/turns around on itself,
depending on whether *your* "flight of stairs" can end between
floors on only ON a floor.
Post by Pamela
Post by Stefan Ram
One for a hallway within an apartment just inside the front
door, into which some of the other rooms open. (This hallway
is part of the apartment.)
Lobby?
I see the problem HERE. You're thinking of an apartment /building/
as "an apartment", while the rest of us are using "an apartment"
to mean what you exclusively consider "a flat".
"Lobby" can be applied to an individual dwelling (flat or apartment)
as well as to the entrance of the whole block. What Stefan
describes is a large apartment if it has its own lobby. Perhaps
"vestibule" suits too?
Post by Chrysi Cat
There is no WAY that a small 6-foot-wide-at-most section that
leads back into the main body of the flat is a foyer.
Surely not all lobbies are so big as to be foyers.
Post by Chrysi Cat
For the record, I consider both of them "hallways" despite
someone's insitence that that word can only ever apply to a hall
in use for transit and not for where one places inanimate objects,
and don't have separate words.
Then again, for ME a "hall" is basically what it is on a Clue[do]
board--yes, it's the public entry to a building, but it's much
wider than a hallway (and more often than not has a chandelier
hanging into it). Hallways can easily branch OFF of a hall, and do
in our house, which has more of a hall than a hallway behind the
front doors that leads directly to the living room, while hallWAYS
branch off to each other side nearer the entrance end of the hall
than the "great room" end. Our dog can easily block a hallway, but
if he's lying in the hall, you can go to one side and get around
him easily.
Chrysi Cat
2021-04-28 14:18:08 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On 4/28/2021 8:01 AM, Pamela wrote:

<snip me putting the wrong word in place, even though I knew the right
one and later sent a revision as a comment to my first comment>
Post by Pamela
Surely not all lobbies are so big as to be foyers.
As Dana Simpson had her characters say on a regular basis, "Wait, what?"

I'd think that if either's bigger it's a lobby.

Then again, that might be because in AmE hotels and cinemas have
lobbies, and some theatres might be argued to do so as well.

The only time I _really_ think I've seen anything referred to as a foyer
was in a church, but I don't recall it being even as large as a
multiplex lobby.
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Pamela
2021-04-28 19:07:54 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
<snip me putting the wrong word in place, even though I knew the
right one and later sent a revision as a comment to my first
comment>
Post by Pamela
Surely not all lobbies are so big as to be foyers.
As Dana Simpson had her characters say on a regular basis, "Wait, what?"
I'd think that if either's bigger it's a lobby.
Then again, that might be because in AmE hotels and cinemas have
lobbies, and some theatres might be argued to do so as well.
The only time I _really_ think I've seen anything referred to as a
foyer was in a church, but I don't recall it being even as large
as a multiplex lobby.
Are you Peter T Daniels posting under another name?

Just because a foyer is a type of lobby doesn't mean I am saying all
lobbies are foyers. Foyer has nothing to do with this discussion.

I hope I don't have to draw a Venn diagram to show how "A implies B"
does not mean "B implies A".
Chrysi Cat
2021-04-28 19:36:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Chrysi Cat
<snip me putting the wrong word in place, even though I knew the
right one and later sent a revision as a comment to my first
comment>
Post by Pamela
Surely not all lobbies are so big as to be foyers.
As Dana Simpson had her characters say on a regular basis, "Wait, what?"
I'd think that if either's bigger it's a lobby.
Then again, that might be because in AmE hotels and cinemas have
lobbies, and some theatres might be argued to do so as well.
The only time I _really_ think I've seen anything referred to as a
foyer was in a church, but I don't recall it being even as large
as a multiplex lobby.
Are you Peter T Daniels posting under another name?
SERIOUSLY?!? The two of us rather clearly get along only slightly better
than you and *I* do!

At any rate, not only do I not think he'd QUOTE "Ozy and Millie", I'm
not sure he knew it EXISTED before I dropped the title in this comment.
Post by Pamela
Just because a foyer is a type of lobby doesn't mean I am saying all
lobbies are foyers. Foyer has nothing to do with this discussion.
I'll agree, you aren't saying "all lobbies are foyers". That's because
the way I read yor statement was "FOYER is a subset of LOBBY", to which
I also vehemently disagree.
Post by Pamela
I hope I don't have to draw a Venn diagram to show how "A implies B"
does not mean "B implies A".
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-28 19:57:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
Are you Peter T Daniels posting under another name?
SERIOUSLY?!? The two of us rather clearly get along only slightly better
than you and *I* do!
I bear no animus toward Cat. Have quoted them several times with profit.
Post by Chrysi Cat
At any rate, not only do I not think he'd QUOTE "Ozy and Millie", I'm
not sure he knew it EXISTED before I dropped the title in this comment.
Still doesn't. Allusions or references to unfamiliar bits of pop culture
are passed over either unnoticed or ignored.
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
Just because a foyer is a type of lobby doesn't mean I am saying all
lobbies are foyers. Foyer has nothing to do with this discussion.
Hard to see how a foyer is a type of lobby.
Post by Chrysi Cat
I'll agree, you aren't saying "all lobbies are foyers". That's because
the way I read yor statement was "FOYER is a subset of LOBBY", to which
I also vehemently disagree.
Post by Pamela
I hope I don't have to draw a Venn diagram to show how "A implies B"
does not mean "B implies A".
Pamela
2021-04-28 21:30:50 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
Post by Chrysi Cat
<snip me putting the wrong word in place, even though I knew the
right one and later sent a revision as a comment to my first
comment>
Post by Pamela
Surely not all lobbies are so big as to be foyers.
As Dana Simpson had her characters say on a regular basis, "Wait, what?"
I'd think that if either's bigger it's a lobby.
Then again, that might be because in AmE hotels and cinemas have
lobbies, and some theatres might be argued to do so as well.
The only time I _really_ think I've seen anything referred to as a
foyer was in a church, but I don't recall it being even as large
as a multiplex lobby.
Are you Peter T Daniels posting under another name?
SERIOUSLY?!? The two of us rather clearly get along only slightly
better than you and *I* do!
At any rate, not only do I not think he'd QUOTE "Ozy and Millie",
I'm not sure he knew it EXISTED before I dropped the title in this
comment.
Post by Pamela
Just because a foyer is a type of lobby doesn't mean I am saying
all lobbies are foyers. Foyer has nothing to do with this
discussion.
I'll agree, you aren't saying "all lobbies are foyers". That's
because the way I read yor statement was "FOYER is a subset of
LOBBY", to which I also vehemently disagree.
Apologies if I wasn't clear. I wrote "not all lobbies are so big as
to be foyers" but maybe something else I wrote was misleading.

We can both vehemently agree to vehemently disagree with the
intrepretation you quoted in your last sentence!
Chrysi Cat
2021-04-29 04:08:04 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
Post by Chrysi Cat
<snip me putting the wrong word in place, even though I knew the
right one and later sent a revision as a comment to my first
comment>
Post by Pamela
Surely not all lobbies are so big as to be foyers.
As Dana Simpson had her characters say on a regular basis, "Wait, what?"
I'd think that if either's bigger it's a lobby.
Then again, that might be because in AmE hotels and cinemas have
lobbies, and some theatres might be argued to do so as well.
The only time I _really_ think I've seen anything referred to as a
foyer was in a church, but I don't recall it being even as large
as a multiplex lobby.
Are you Peter T Daniels posting under another name?
SERIOUSLY?!? The two of us rather clearly get along only slightly
better than you and *I* do!
At any rate, not only do I not think he'd QUOTE "Ozy and Millie",
I'm not sure he knew it EXISTED before I dropped the title in this
comment.
Post by Pamela
Just because a foyer is a type of lobby doesn't mean I am saying
all lobbies are foyers. Foyer has nothing to do with this
discussion.
I'll agree, you aren't saying "all lobbies are foyers". That's
because the way I read yor statement was "FOYER is a subset of
LOBBY", to which I also vehemently disagree.
Apologies if I wasn't clear. I wrote "not all lobbies are so big as
to be foyers" but maybe something else I wrote was misleading.
No, that's exactly what's misleading. Apparently, you feel that this
means 'lobbies and foyers are different things, but at least some
lobbies are large enough to match the size of the smallest foyer, which
is a greater size than the smallest lobby'.

I don't know that I agree with either part and I will continue vocally
disagreeing with your statement that a small foyer is larger than a
minimum-sized lobby.
Post by Pamela
We can both vehemently agree to vehemently disagree with the
intrepretation you quoted in your last sentence!
--
Chrysi Cat
1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
Transgoddess, quick to anger. [she/her. Misgender and die].
Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!
Lewis
2021-04-29 05:17:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
Post by Chrysi Cat
<snip me putting the wrong word in place, even though I knew the
right one and later sent a revision as a comment to my first
comment>
Post by Pamela
Surely not all lobbies are so big as to be foyers.
As Dana Simpson had her characters say on a regular basis, "Wait, what?"
I'd think that if either's bigger it's a lobby.
Then again, that might be because in AmE hotels and cinemas have
lobbies, and some theatres might be argued to do so as well.
The only time I _really_ think I've seen anything referred to as a
foyer was in a church, but I don't recall it being even as large
as a multiplex lobby.
Are you Peter T Daniels posting under another name?
SERIOUSLY?!? The two of us rather clearly get along only slightly
better than you and *I* do!
At any rate, not only do I not think he'd QUOTE "Ozy and Millie",
I'm not sure he knew it EXISTED before I dropped the title in this
comment.
Post by Pamela
Just because a foyer is a type of lobby doesn't mean I am saying
all lobbies are foyers. Foyer has nothing to do with this
discussion.
I'll agree, you aren't saying "all lobbies are foyers". That's
because the way I read yor statement was "FOYER is a subset of
LOBBY", to which I also vehemently disagree.
Apologies if I wasn't clear. I wrote "not all lobbies are so big as
to be foyers" but maybe something else I wrote was misleading.
No, that's exactly what's misleading. Apparently, you feel that this
means 'lobbies and foyers are different things, but at least some
lobbies are large enough to match the size of the smallest foyer, which
is a greater size than the smallest lobby'.
I don't know that I agree with either part and I will continue vocally
disagreeing with your statement that a small foyer is larger than a
minimum-sized lobby.
Quite the opposite, in fact. A Lobby is definitely larger.
--
I want a refund, I want a light, I want a reason for all this night
after night after night after night
Kerr-Mudd, John
2021-04-29 10:30:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 05:17:28 -0000 (UTC)
Lewis <***@kreme.dont-email.me> wrote:

[Foyer v Lobby]
(Porch & Hallway were knocked out in the 1st round)
Post by Lewis
Quite the opposite, in fact. A Lobby is definitely larger.
It certainly would be in US politics.
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-29 23:40:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 05:17:28 -0000 (UTC)
[Foyer v Lobby]
(Porch & Hallway were knocked out in the 1st round)
Post by Lewis
Quite the opposite, in fact. A Lobby is definitely larger.
It certainly would be in US politics.
WIWAL, the only time I ever encountered the word "Foyer" was in the
announcement:

"...available in the foyer of this cinema."
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Mark Brader
2021-04-29 23:56:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
WIWAL, the only time I ever encountered the word "Foyer" was in the
"...available in the foyer of this cinema."
And how did they pronounce it?
--
Mark Brader, Toronto | "My pasta, what stop does it close down to?"
***@vex.net | --Lee Ayrton
Sam Plusnet
2021-04-30 19:34:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
WIWAL, the only time I ever encountered the word "Foyer" was in the
"...available in the foyer of this cinema."
And how did they pronounce it?
Too much time has passed for me to be sure.
--
Sam Plusnet
Wales, UK
Mark Brader
2021-04-30 23:43:42 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Sam Plusnet
WIWAL, the only time I ever encountered the word "Foyer" was in the
"...available in the foyer of this cinema."
And how did they pronounce it?
Too much time has passed for me to be sure.
Oh well. "Foy-yay" for me, anyway.
--
Mark Brader "This must be a serious issue!
Toronto It's spawned a new interjection!"
***@vex.net --Steve Summit
Tony Cooper
2021-04-30 02:42:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 05:17:28 -0000 (UTC)
[Foyer v Lobby]
(Porch & Hallway were knocked out in the 1st round)
Post by Lewis
Quite the opposite, in fact. A Lobby is definitely larger.
It certainly would be in US politics.
WIWAL, the only time I ever encountered the word "Foyer" was in the
"...available in the foyer of this cinema."
That shows the difference between US usage and Otherpond usage. We
refer to that part of the theater as the "lobby". A foyer, here,
would be too small to have anything going on there.

I say "foy-yur", but some say "for-yeah". That sounds pretentious to
me. Fortunately, it's not a word I use very often.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Ken Blake
2021-04-30 14:40:08 UTC
Reply
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Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 05:17:28 -0000 (UTC)
[Foyer v Lobby]
(Porch & Hallway were knocked out in the 1st round)
Post by Lewis
Quite the opposite, in fact. A Lobby is definitely larger.
It certainly would be in US politics.
WIWAL, the only time I ever encountered the word "Foyer" was in the
"...available in the foyer of this cinema."
That shows the difference between US usage and Otherpond usage. We
refer to that part of the theater as the "lobby".
Yes.
Post by Tony Cooper
A foyer, here,
would be too small to have anything going on there.
I say "foy-yur", but some say "for-yeah". That sounds pretentious to
me. Fortunately, it's not a word I use very often.
I pronounce it the way you do, but I haven't used or heard the word
since I was very young. And in my experience, a foyer was only in an
apartment, never in a theater or apartment building.
--
Ken
Bill Day
2021-04-30 15:42:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 22:42:52 -0400, Tony Cooper
Post by Tony Cooper
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 05:17:28 -0000 (UTC)
[Foyer v Lobby]
(Porch & Hallway were knocked out in the 1st round)
Post by Lewis
Quite the opposite, in fact. A Lobby is definitely larger.
It certainly would be in US politics.
WIWAL, the only time I ever encountered the word "Foyer" was in the
"...available in the foyer of this cinema."
That shows the difference between US usage and Otherpond usage. We
refer to that part of the theater as the "lobby". A foyer, here,
would be too small to have anything going on there.
I say "foy-yur", but some say "for-yeah". That sounds pretentious to
me. Fortunately, it's not a word I use very often.
There was a long story set in a hotel... with a pun ending(like the
famous Ferdinand Feghoots) that ended with the line.."It's just Chess
Nuts Boasting in an Open Foyer."
--
remove nonsense for reply
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-30 08:00:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 05:17:28 -0000 (UTC)
[Foyer v Lobby]
(Porch & Hallway were knocked out in the 1st round)
Post by Lewis
Quite the opposite, in fact. A Lobby is definitely larger.
It certainly would be in US politics.
WIWAL, the only time I ever encountered the word "Foyer" was in the
"...available in the foyer of this cinema."
Me too.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Peter Moylan
2021-04-30 11:54:03 UTC
Reply
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Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by Sam Plusnet
On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 05:17:28 -0000 (UTC) Lewis
[Foyer v Lobby] (Porch & Hallway were knocked out in the 1st
round)
Post by Lewis
Quite the opposite, in fact. A Lobby is definitely larger.
It certainly would be in US politics.
WIWAL, the only time I ever encountered the word "Foyer" was in
"...available in the foyer of this cinema."
Me too.
Me three, but I can't remember how they pronounced it. I think that
"foy-er" and "fwa-yay" have roughly equal acceptability, and the word
isn't used often enough to be worth arguing about.
--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org
Pamela
2021-04-29 10:16:00 UTC
Reply
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Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
Post by Chrysi Cat
Post by Pamela
Post by Chrysi Cat
<snip me putting the wrong word in place, even though I knew the
right one and later sent a revision as a comment to my first
comment>
Post by Pamela
Surely not all lobbies are so big as to be foyers.
As Dana Simpson had her characters say on a regular basis,
"Wait, what?"
I'd think that if either's bigger it's a lobby.
Then again, that might be because in AmE hotels and cinemas have
lobbies, and some theatres might be argued to do so as well.
The only time I _really_ think I've seen anything referred to as
a foyer was in a church, but I don't recall it being even as
large as a multiplex lobby.
Are you Peter T Daniels posting under another name?
SERIOUSLY?!? The two of us rather clearly get along only slightly
better than you and *I* do!
At any rate, not only do I not think he'd QUOTE "Ozy and Millie",
I'm not sure he knew it EXISTED before I dropped the title in this
comment.
Post by Pamela
Just because a foyer is a type of lobby doesn't mean I am saying
all lobbies are foyers. Foyer has nothing to do with this
discussion.
I'll agree, you aren't saying "all lobbies are foyers". That's
because the way I read yor statement was "FOYER is a subset of
LOBBY", to which I also vehemently disagree.
Apologies if I wasn't clear. I wrote "not all lobbies are so big
as to be foyers" but maybe something else I wrote was misleading.
No, that's exactly what's misleading. Apparently, you feel that this
means 'lobbies and foyers are different things, but at least some
lobbies are large enough to match the size of the smallest foyer,
which is a greater size than the smallest lobby'.
I don't know that I agree with either part and I will continue
vocally disagreeing with your statement that a small foyer is larger
than a minimum-sized lobby.
Of course I never said that. I have discovered for the second time
you are, after all, cut from the same cloth as Peter T Daniels.

You can join PTD in my kill file. It's quite an exclusive club of only
a select few . You will enjoy one another's company. Bye.
Tony Cooper
2021-04-28 19:54:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 20:07:54 +0100, Pamela
Post by Pamela
Just because a foyer is a type of lobby doesn't mean I am saying all
lobbies are foyers. Foyer has nothing to do with this discussion.
Why not? It is a term used to describe the area at the entrance to a
building or residence, and this discussion has covered other terms to
describe that area.
--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida
Lewis
2021-04-29 02:30:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Wed, 28 Apr 2021 20:07:54 +0100, Pamela
Post by Pamela
Just because a foyer is a type of lobby doesn't mean I am saying all
lobbies are foyers. Foyer has nothing to do with this discussion.
Why not? It is a term used to describe the area at the entrance to a
building or residence, and this discussion has covered other terms to
describe that area.
I cannot think of any place I've ever seen where I would pause to think
"is this a lobby or a foyer?" and my initial feeling is that the
overlap between them is nil.

To me the foyer is the initial entry area which may, or may not, lead to
a lobby. And a foyer is never inside a private residence and people who
refer to their front hallway as a foyer are putting on airs (though I
know this use is now somewhat common, it still sounds very much like a
humorous exaggeration or puffery, much like referring to your only
bedroom as the "Master Suite" or the bathtub as "the lap pool").
--
There are bad people on both sides
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-28 19:54:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Pamela
Post by Chrysi Cat
<snip me putting the wrong word in place, even though I knew the
right one and later sent a revision as a comment to my first
comment>
Post by Pamela
Surely not all lobbies are so big as to be foyers.
As Dana Simpson had her characters say on a regular basis, "Wait, what?"
I'd think that if either's bigger it's a lobby.
Then again, that might be because in AmE hotels and cinemas have
lobbies, and some theatres might be argued to do so as well.
The only time I _really_ think I've seen anything referred to as a
foyer was in a church, but I don't recall it being even as large
as a multiplex lobby.
Are you Peter T Daniels posting under another name?
My, how deluded "Pamela" is because of being afraid to read what
I write.
Post by Pamela
Just because a foyer is a type of lobby doesn't mean I am saying all
lobbies are foyers. Foyer has nothing to do with this discussion.
I hope I don't have to draw a Venn diagram to show how "A implies B"
does not mean "B implies A".
bil...@shaw.ca
2021-04-29 20:46:01 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Chrysi Cat
<snip me putting the wrong word in place, even though I knew the right
one and later sent a revision as a comment to my first comment>
Post by Pamela
Surely not all lobbies are so big as to be foyers.
As Dana Simpson had her characters say on a regular basis, "Wait, what?"
I'd think that if either's bigger it's a lobby.
Then again, that might be because in AmE hotels and cinemas have
lobbies, and some theatres might be argued to do so as well.
The only time I _really_ think I've seen anything referred to as a foyer
was in a church, but I don't recall it being even as large as a
multiplex lobby.
I've been away for a while, but it appears nothing has changed. Nearly everyone
assumes that their usage -- in this case for foyer, lobby, entryway, hallway, etc --
is the universal or correct usage and will immediately be understood by everyone
else. In fact, even in small groups you'll encounter varying usages. The large
rectangular space inside the major entryway of my apartment building is
called the lobby (most often), foyer, hall, hallway, entryway etc. That's in a building
with only 14 apartments. Go to a different sort of building -- say, a multi-screen
movie theatre, and the lobby -- or foyer -- becomes a large multi-use space with a limited amount
of seating, snack bars, washrooms, access to the main screening space and stairs to
other levels. Also milling-around-and-chatting space during intermissions.

bill
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-29 21:12:28 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@shaw.ca
I've been away for a while, but it appears nothing has changed. Nearly everyone
assumes that their usage -- in this case for foyer, lobby, entryway, hallway, etc --
is the universal or correct usage and will immediately be understood by everyone
else. In fact, even in small groups you'll encounter varying usages. The large
rectangular space inside the major entryway of my apartment building is
called the lobby (most often), foyer, hall, hallway, entryway etc. That's in a building
with only 14 apartments. Go to a different sort of building -- say, a multi-screen
movie theatre, and the lobby -- or foyer -- becomes a large multi-use space with a limited amount
of seating, snack bars, washrooms, access to the main screening space and stairs to
other levels. Also milling-around-and-chatting space during intermissions.
Glad you're back! How do you Westerners stress Newfoundland?
CDB
2021-04-30 11:50:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by ***@shaw.ca
I've been away for a while, but it appears nothing has changed.
Nearly everyone assumes that their usage -- in this case for
foyer, lobby, entryway, hallway, etc -- is the universal or correct
usage and will immediately be understood by everyone else. In fact,
even in small groups you'll encounter varying usages. The large
rectangular space inside the major entryway of my apartment
building is called the lobby (most often), foyer, hall, hallway,
entryway etc. That's in a building with only 14 apartments. Go to
a different sort of building -- say, a multi-screen movie theatre,
and the lobby -- or foyer -- becomes a large multi-use space with
a limited amount of seating, snack bars, washrooms, access to the
main screening space and stairs to other levels. Also
milling-around-and-chatting space during intermissions.
Glad you're back! How do you Westerners stress Newfoundland?
My mother (not a Westerner) said ['***@ndl@nd]. When I found out how
they say it themselves (welcome to Anaphoria, mon), I switched to
[,***@nd'l&nd].
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2021-04-30 12:02:27 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by CDB
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by ***@shaw.ca
I've been away for a while, but it appears nothing has changed. Nearly
everyone assumes that their usage -- in this case for
foyer, lobby, entryway, hallway, etc -- is the universal or correct
usage and will immediately be understood by everyone else. In fact,
even in small groups you'll encounter varying usages. The large
rectangular space inside the major entryway of my apartment building is
called the lobby (most often), foyer, hall, hallway, entryway etc.
That's in a building with only 14 apartments. Go to
a different sort of building -- say, a multi-screen movie theatre, and
the lobby -- or foyer -- becomes a large multi-use space with
a limited amount of seating, snack bars, washrooms, access to the main
screening space and stairs to other levels. Also
milling-around-and-chatting space during intermissions.
Glad you're back! How do you Westerners stress Newfoundland?
they say it themselves (welcome to Anaphoria, mon), I switched to
John Donne seems to have said it the way we all know to be wrong:

Licence my roving hands, and let them go,
Before, behind, between, above, below.
O my America! my New-found-land,
My kingdom, safeliest when with one man mann’d,
My Mine of precious stones, My Empirie,
How blest am I in this discovering thee!
To enter in these bonds, is to be free;
Then where my hand is set, my seal shall be.
--
Athel -- British, living in France for 34 years
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-30 15:15:20 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Licence my roving hands, and let them go,
Before, behind, between, above, below.
O my America! my New-found-land,
My kingdom, safeliest when with one man mann’d,
My Mine of precious stones, My Empirie,
How blest am I in this discovering thee!
To enter in these bonds, is to be free;
Then where my hand is set, my seal shall be.
That is apparently still the preferred pronunciation in Brit-land:

Pronunciation
(UK) IPA(key): /ˈnjuːˌfaʊnd.lənd/, /ˈnjuː.fənd.lənd/, /ˈnjuː.fənd.lænd/
(US) IPA(key): /ˈn(j)uˌfaʊnd.lənd/, /ˈn(j)u.fənd.lənd/, /ˈn(j)u.fəndˌlænd/, /ˈn(j)uˌfaʊnd.lænd/
(Canada) IPA(key): /ˈnu.fənˌlænd/, /ˈnu.fəndˌlænd/

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Newfoundland#Pronunciation

Nothing in the quoted lines suggests that he was referring specifically
to the colony, but it is an appositive to "America" and "Empire" later.

The poem is an erotic, not to say obscene, address to the lush body
of his woman.
Peter T. Daniels
2021-04-30 15:06:31 UTC
Reply
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Post by CDB
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Glad you're back! How do you Westerners stress Newfoundland?
they say it themselves (welcome to Anaphoria, mon), I switched to
With a medial [d], under either stress pattern? It ought to get swallowed
up in the transition from [n] to [l].
Lewis
2021-04-29 21:47:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by ***@shaw.ca
Post by Chrysi Cat
<snip me putting the wrong word in place, even though I knew the right
one and later sent a revision as a comment to my first comment>
Post by Pamela
Surely not all lobbies are so big as to be foyers.
As Dana Simpson had her characters say on a regular basis, "Wait, what?"
I'd think that if either's bigger it's a lobby.
Then again, that might be because in AmE hotels and cinemas have
lobbies, and some theatres might be argued to do so as well.
The only time I _really_ think I've seen anything referred to as a foyer
was in a church, but I don't recall it being even as large as a
multiplex lobby.
I've been away for a while, but it appears nothing has changed. Nearly everyone
assumes that their usage -- in this case for foyer, lobby, entryway, hallway, etc --
is the universal or correct usage and will immediately be understood by everyone
That is not at all the case. The thread is full of people describing
what their usage is.
--
Moving into the universe And she's drifting this way and that Not
touching the ground at all And she's up above the yard
Stefan Ram
2021-04-28 17:18:33 UTC
Reply
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Post by Chrysi Cat
I see the problem HERE. You're thinking of an apartment /building/ as
"an apartment", while the rest of us are using "an apartment" to mean
what you exclusively consider "a flat".
I ran across

|[T]he typical California city allows multifamily developments
|like apartments, townhouses and duplexes on less than a quarter
|of its land.

recently in an article from the New York Times. So, I looked it up:

|apartment
|1. a room or suite of rooms to live in;
| esp., one suite in an apartment house
|2. US an apartment house

.
Lewis
2021-04-29 02:21:30 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Stefan Ram
Post by Chrysi Cat
I see the problem HERE. You're thinking of an apartment /building/ as
"an apartment", while the rest of us are using "an apartment" to mean
what you exclusively consider "a flat".
I ran across
|[T]he typical California city allows multifamily developments
|like apartments, townhouses and duplexes on less than a quarter
|of its land.
|apartment
|1. a room or suite of rooms to live in;
| esp., one suite in an apartment house
Yes.
Post by Stefan Ram
|2. US an apartment house
Not really.

I have two friends who live in an apartments which is in an apartment
building which is in an apartment complex. The apartment is their living
space, not the building they are in nor the group of buildings.
--
The thing standing in the way of your dreams is that the person
having them is *you* https://xkcd.com/1027/
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