Discussion:
La Manic
(too old to reply)
Peter Moylan
2020-01-13 13:36:54 UTC
Permalink
This is not at all an English usage question, but since there are a few
Canadians present ...

I've been looking at the question of whether I should add the song "La
Manic" (Georges Dor) to my singing repertoire, and for that I'd like
to know more about the background.

The song title is an abbreviation, presumably a popular abbreviation, of
"La Rivière Manicouagan", a river in Quebec province and also the site
of a big hydro power station. The song is in essence a letter from a
construction worker, at the time the river was being dammed to build the
power station, to his girlfriend back in civilisation. The essence of
the letter is given in the first few lines. Freely translated: If you
knew what it is like here, you would write more often.

My mental picture of Quebec is that it's a huge uninhabitable
wilderness, with a narrow strip at the bottom where everyone lives. So
here's my question: is the Manicouagan River in the civilised part of
the province, or is it a place comparable to what Australians would call
"beyond the black stump"?
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Kerr-Mudd,John
2020-01-13 13:53:23 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 13 Jan 2020 13:36:54 GMT, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
This is not at all an English usage question, but since there are a few
Canadians present ...
I've been looking at the question of whether I should add the song "La
Manic" (Georges Dor) to my singing repertoire, and for that I'd like
to know more about the background.
The song title is an abbreviation, presumably a popular abbreviation, of
"La RiviÚre Manicouagan", a river in Quebec province and also the site
of a big hydro power station. The song is in essence a letter from a
construction worker, at the time the river was being dammed to build the
power station, to his girlfriend back in civilisation. The essence of
the letter is given in the first few lines. Freely translated: If you
knew what it is like here, you would write more often.
My mental picture of Quebec is that it's a huge uninhabitable
wilderness, with a narrow strip at the bottom where everyone lives. So
here's my question: is the Manicouagan River in the civilised part of
the province, or is it a place comparable to what Australians would call
"beyond the black stump"?
Having no knowledge of this, but using my skills (such as they are) with
google maps, I reckon you're right. Though could I just say that the lake
is shaped as it is due to an meteorite impact?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manicouagan_Reservoir

Anyhow drifting a bit to the right I see a fussy (not fuzzy) squigley
line between quebec and Newfoundland, whereas aftwards it's a
straightline across a swampy mess. What border dispute did this come
from? (I can see there's some mineral deposits around the Labrador City
area that would be worth squabbling over).
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Mark Brader
2020-01-13 18:29:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Peter Moylan
My mental picture of Quebec is that it's a huge uninhabitable
wilderness, with a narrow strip at the bottom where everyone lives.
To a first approximation this applies to the whole country.
The "strip where everyone lives" is wider in some places than
others: Edmonton is 300 miles (500 km) from the US border, and
in the east there are New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, but north
of Lake Superior it's mostly one road and a couple of railways
through the wilderness.
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Peter Moylan
So here's my question: is the Manicouagan River in the civilised
part of the province, or is it a place comparable to what Australians
would call "beyond the black stump"?
The latter.
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Anyhow drifting a bit to the right I see a fussy (not fuzzy) squigley
line between quebec and Newfoundland, whereas aftwards it's a
straightline across a swampy mess. What border dispute did this come
from? (I can see there's some mineral deposits around the Labrador City
area that would be worth squabbling over).
When the colony of Newfoundland was created in the 18th century, it was
given the rights to "the Labrador coast", whose meaning was not otherwise
defined. Nobody much bothered about the wilderness zone inland until
the 20th century, when Canada claimed that "coast" obviously meant a
narrow strip and Newfoundland claimed that it obviously extended to
include all land draining into the coast.

The case was settled in Britain by the Judicial Committee of the
Privy Council, mostly in favor of Newfoundland, creating the squiggly
boundary along the watershed (the straight-line boundary in the
south had been settled on another occasion). Since Newfoundland won,
from time to time Quebec likes to pretend that the case was never
settled.

By the way, there's another interesting detail about this boundary.
Islands off the north coast of Quebec are generally part of Nunavut,
but Killiniq Island, a dot of land off the north end of the QC/NL
boundary, is divivded between NL and Nunavut. This is because
Nunavut was created in 1999 from part of the Northwest Territories,
which were extended in 1880 (I think) to include the Arctic Achipelago
-- but of course Newfoundland was not part of Canada until 1949, so
it already owned one side of the island according to the "Laborador
coast" provision.
--
Mark Brader | "Howeb45 9 qad no5 und8ly diturvrd v7 7jis dince
Toronto | 9 qas 8mtillihemt mot ikkfavpur4d 5esoyrdeful
***@vex.net | abd fill if condif3nce on myd3lf." -- Cica

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Phil Hobbs
2020-01-13 18:55:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Peter Moylan
My mental picture of Quebec is that it's a huge uninhabitable
wilderness, with a narrow strip at the bottom where everyone lives.
To a first approximation this applies to the whole country.
The "strip where everyone lives" is wider in some places than
others: Edmonton is 300 miles (500 km) from the US border, and
in the east there are New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, but north
of Lake Superior it's mostly one road and a couple of railways
through the wilderness.
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Peter Moylan
So here's my question: is the Manicouagan River in the civilised
part of the province, or is it a place comparable to what Australians
would call "beyond the black stump"?
The latter.
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Anyhow drifting a bit to the right I see a fussy (not fuzzy) squigley
line between quebec and Newfoundland, whereas aftwards it's a
straightline across a swampy mess. What border dispute did this come
from? (I can see there's some mineral deposits around the Labrador City
area that would be worth squabbling over).
When the colony of Newfoundland was created in the 18th century, it was
given the rights to "the Labrador coast", whose meaning was not otherwise
defined. Nobody much bothered about the wilderness zone inland until
the 20th century, when Canada claimed that "coast" obviously meant a
narrow strip and Newfoundland claimed that it obviously extended to
include all land draining into the coast.
The case was settled in Britain by the Judicial Committee of the
Privy Council, mostly in favor of Newfoundland, creating the squiggly
boundary along the watershed (the straight-line boundary in the
south had been settled on another occasion). Since Newfoundland won,
from time to time Quebec likes to pretend that the case was never
settled.
It's all moose pasture anyway.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs
Snidely
2020-01-14 09:12:58 UTC
Permalink
On Monday or thereabouts, Phil Hobbs declared ...
Post by Phil Hobbs
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Peter Moylan
My mental picture of Quebec is that it's a huge uninhabitable
wilderness, with a narrow strip at the bottom where everyone lives.
To a first approximation this applies to the whole country.
The "strip where everyone lives" is wider in some places than
others: Edmonton is 300 miles (500 km) from the US border, and
in the east there are New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, but north
of Lake Superior it's mostly one road and a couple of railways
through the wilderness.
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Peter Moylan
So here's my question: is the Manicouagan River in the civilised
part of the province, or is it a place comparable to what Australians
would call "beyond the black stump"?
The latter.
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Anyhow drifting a bit to the right I see a fussy (not fuzzy) squigley
line between quebec and Newfoundland, whereas aftwards it's a
straightline across a swampy mess. What border dispute did this come
from? (I can see there's some mineral deposits around the Labrador City
area that would be worth squabbling over).
When the colony of Newfoundland was created in the 18th century, it was
given the rights to "the Labrador coast", whose meaning was not otherwise
defined. Nobody much bothered about the wilderness zone inland until
the 20th century, when Canada claimed that "coast" obviously meant a
narrow strip and Newfoundland claimed that it obviously extended to
include all land draining into the coast.
The case was settled in Britain by the Judicial Committee of the
Privy Council, mostly in favor of Newfoundland, creating the squiggly
boundary along the watershed (the straight-line boundary in the
south had been settled on another occasion). Since Newfoundland won,
from time to time Quebec likes to pretend that the case was never
settled.
It's all moose pasture anyway.
It's certainly past my moose. And I need to be up early tomorrow.

/dps
--
"I am not given to exaggeration, and when I say a thing I mean it"
_Roughing It_, Mark Twain
Peter Moylan
2020-01-22 17:16:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
My mental picture of Quebec is that it's a huge uninhabitable
wilderness, with a narrow strip at the bottom where everyone
lives.
To a first approximation this applies to the whole country. The
Edmonton is 300 miles (500 km) from the US border, and in the east
there are New Brunswick and Nova Scotia, but north of Lake Superior
it's mostly one road and a couple of railways through the
wilderness.
Post by Peter Moylan
So here's my question: is the Manicouagan River in the civilised
part of the province, or is it a place comparable to what
Australians would call "beyond the black stump"?
The latter.
Thanks. As a supplementary question: was the project called "la Manic"
because nobody could pronounce Maniccouagan?
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Garrett Wollman
2020-01-22 20:43:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Thanks. As a supplementary question: was the project called "la Manic"
because nobody could pronounce Maniccouagan?
I doubt it; it's not a particularly difficult word to pronounce, even
going by the standards of First Nations community names in Quebec.
(In English, the stress is on the penult.)

For a long time there were parallel native and Euro-Canadian names for
a lot of settlements, but these have been officially standardized in
recent years on the endonyms, so Fort Rupert is now officially
Waskaganish, Nouveau-Comptoir is now official Wemindji, and so on.

Manicouagan is different, though, because it's a large-scale
geographic feature (a river and an astrobleme) and it's essentially
been known by essentially that name since the French stumbled upon it.
"Manicouagan" is apparently a French missionary's clipping of
"Manikouaganistikou", according to Wikipedia.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
CDB
2020-01-22 21:06:16 UTC
Permalink
On 1/22/2020 12:16 PM, Peter Moylan wrote:

[northern Canada: maybe more beauty than comfort, but some do like it]
Post by Peter Moylan
Thanks. As a supplementary question: was the project called "la
Manic" because nobody could pronounce Manicouagan?
It's not hard to say; maybe a little long for daily use.

IFixedYourPostForYou.
Peter Moylan
2020-01-23 10:06:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by CDB
[northern Canada: maybe more beauty than comfort, but some do like it]
Post by Peter Moylan
Thanks. As a supplementary question: was the project called "la
Manic" because nobody could pronounce Manicouagan?
It's not hard to say; maybe a little long for daily use.
IFixedYourPostForYou.
ThankYou.

(Another of those phrases that younger people like to run together into
a single word.)
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
CDB
2020-01-23 16:05:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by CDB
[northern Canada: maybe more beauty than comfort, but some do like it]
Post by Peter Moylan
Thanks. As a supplementary question: was the project called "la
Manic" because nobody could pronounce Manicouagan?
It's not hard to say; maybe a little long for daily use.
IFixedYourPostForYou.
ThankYou.
(Another of those phrases that younger people like to run together
into a single word.)
I wrote "IFYPFY", but then remembered a recent complaint about Usenet
initialisms and fixed my post.

Garrett Wollman
2020-01-13 17:17:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
I've been looking at the question of whether I should add the song "La
Manic" (Georges Dor) to my singing repertoire, and for that I'd like
to know more about the background.
The song title is an abbreviation, presumably a popular abbreviation, of
"La RiviÚre Manicouagan", a river in Quebec province and also the site
of a big hydro power station.
The original project, the Manicouagan-Outardes project, included the
construction of five dams on the Manicouagan River (Manic-1,
Manic-2, Manic-3, Manic-4 and Manic-5) and three on the Outardes
River (Outardes-2, Outardes-3 and Outardes-4). However, a
miscalculation prevented the construction of the Manic-4 dam and
powerhouse because engineers realized early on that it would
encroach on the Manic-3 reservoir.
Manic-5 was renamed "Barrage Daniel-Johnson" after the Quebec premier
who died shortly before he was scheduled to dedicate the dam.
That's the dam that actually impounds the Manicouagan Reservoir,
blocking the eroded rim of an impact crater.

-GAWollman
--
Garrett A. Wollman | "Act to avoid constraining the future; if you can,
***@bimajority.org| act to remove constraint from the future. This is
Opinions not shared by| a thing you can do, are able to do, to do together."
my employers. | - Graydon Saunders, _A Succession of Bad Days_ (2015)
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