Discussion:
Lake and Lake
(too old to reply)
Lewis
2018-06-02 14:26:17 UTC
Permalink
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's naming
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Skylake,
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.

I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.

But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.

I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).

There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the pattern,
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?) and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).

I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
--
I never wanted to do this in the first place.
HVS
2018-06-02 14:39:49 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 14:26:17 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's
naming
Post by Lewis
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake,
Skylake,
Post by Lewis
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can
think of
Post by Lewis
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the
Caspian
Post by Lewis
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the
pattern,
Post by Lewis
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?)
All of the Manitoban lakes are "Lake X" - Manitoba, Winnipeg, and
Winnipegosis.
Post by Lewis
and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
--
I never wanted to do this in the first place.
David Kleinecke
2018-06-02 15:56:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by HVS
On Sat, 2 Jun 2018 14:26:17 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do,
and we
Post by Lewis
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's
naming
Post by Lewis
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake,
Skylake,
Post by Lewis
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't
they
Post by Lewis
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real
lakes.
Post by Lewis
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why
some
Post by Lewis
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can
think of
Post by Lewis
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the
Caspian
Post by Lewis
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the
pattern,
Post by Lewis
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some
others
Post by Lewis
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?)
All of the Manitoban lakes are "Lake X" - Manitoba, Winnipeg, and
Winnipegosis.
Lake Tahoe is noteworthy but not very large. Lake Arrowhead
isn't even a natural lake. Zaka Lake is a very small lake
no one has ever heard of - but it is natural.
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-06-02 20:35:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's naming
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Skylake,
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the pattern,
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?) and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Bassenthwaite Lake is one of the largest bodies of water in the Lake
District. It's also the only official lake in the region. That appears to be
troublesome for your theory.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2018-06-03 04:42:07 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 20:35:19 GMT, Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[]
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Lewis
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why
some lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
[]
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Bassenthwaite Lake is one of the largest bodies of water in the Lake
District. It's also the only official lake in the region. That appears
to be troublesome for your theory.
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-06-03 10:00:03 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 04:42:07 -0000 (UTC), "Kerr-Mudd,John"
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 20:35:19 GMT, Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[]
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Lewis
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why
some lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
[]
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Bassenthwaite Lake is one of the largest bodies of water in the Lake
District. It's also the only official lake in the region. That appears
to be troublesome for your theory.
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
Yes. That distinguishes between the lake and the town named Windermere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windermere,_Cumbria_(town)

Windermere is a town and civil parish in the South Lakeland District
of Cumbria, England. It...lies about half a mile (1 km) away from
the lake, Windermere. Although the town Windermere does not touch
the lake (it took the name of the lake when the railway line was
built in 1847 and the station was called "Windermere"),...
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
soup
2018-06-03 10:21:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 20:35:19 GMT, Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[]
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Lewis
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why
some lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
[]
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Bassenthwaite Lake is one of the largest bodies of water in the Lake
District. It's also the only official lake in the region. That appears
to be troublesome for your theory.
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
I assumed it was originally Winder Mere.
Then over time it was written as one word Windermere . And that was
regarded as its name . So now it is 'lake Winderlake'.
Bit like River Avon (sort of )translates from the Brythonic to 'river river'
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-06-03 10:57:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 20:35:19 GMT, Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[]
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Lewis
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why
some lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
[]
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Bassenthwaite Lake is one of the largest bodies of water in the Lake
District. It's also the only official lake in the region. That appears
to be troublesome for your theory.
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
Richard Tobin
2018-06-03 11:54:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.

-- Richard
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-06-03 12:31:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-03 13:06:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-06-03 13:31:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Usual bollocks! OED

Mere
2. A sheet of standing water; a lake; a pond, a pool. Now chiefly Brit.
regional and literary.

1998 Canal Boat & Inland Waterways June 101/1 Charter yachts
on the coast at Burnham-on-Crouch and on the meres of Friesland
had been withdrawn, owing to World War I.

Water
11. A body of water on the surface of the earth.

a. A body or mass of standing or flowing water, irrespective of size
or type; a sea, lake, river, etc.

1994 J. N. Cole Away All Boats 58 A small wooden boat that..had
been so badly treated that she was no longer seaworthy in any
waters, including Georgica Pond.



It really is time you learnt that your limited regional AmE is nowhere
near the sum total of English, ModE, or even AmE!
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-03 14:07:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Usual bollocks! OED
Mere
2. A sheet of standing water; a lake; a pond, a pool. Now chiefly Brit.
regional and literary.
"Brit. Regional and Literary."
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
1998 Canal Boat & Inland Waterways June 101/1 Charter yachts
on the coast at Burnham-on-Crouch and on the meres of Friesland
had been withdrawn, owing to World War I.
Water
11. A body of water on the surface of the earth.
a. A body or mass of standing or flowing water, irrespective of size
or type; a sea, lake, river, etc.
1994 J. N. Cole Away All Boats 58 A small wooden boat that..had
been so badly treated that she was no longer seaworthy in any
waters, including Georgica Pond.
That's not "a water," is it.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
It really is time you learnt that your limited regional AmE is nowhere
near the sum total of English, ModE, or even AmE!
It's really time you learned that your provincial corner of Anglophonia no longer rules the world of English.
Peter Young
2018-06-03 14:54:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Usual bollocks! OED
Mere
2. A sheet of standing water; a lake; a pond, a pool. Now chiefly Brit.
regional and literary.
"Brit. Regional and Literary."
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
1998 Canal Boat & Inland Waterways June 101/1 Charter yachts
on the coast at Burnham-on-Crouch and on the meres of Friesland
had been withdrawn, owing to World War I.
Water
11. A body of water on the surface of the earth.
a. A body or mass of standing or flowing water, irrespective of size
or type; a sea, lake, river, etc.
1994 J. N. Cole Away All Boats 58 A small wooden boat that..had
been so badly treated that she was no longer seaworthy in any
waters, including Georgica Pond.
That's not "a water," is it.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
It really is time you learnt that your limited regional AmE is nowhere
near the sum total of English, ModE, or even AmE!
It's really time you learned that your provincial corner of Anglophonia no
longer rules the world of English.
Nobody on this side of the Pond is saying or implying that. It's just that
we say different things over here. We are quite happy for you to y=use
your English; can we not use ours?

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-03 15:50:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Usual bollocks! OED
Mere
2. A sheet of standing water; a lake; a pond, a pool. Now chiefly Brit.
regional and literary.
"Brit. Regional and Literary."
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
1998 Canal Boat & Inland Waterways June 101/1 Charter yachts
on the coast at Burnham-on-Crouch and on the meres of Friesland
had been withdrawn, owing to World War I.
Water
11. A body of water on the surface of the earth.
a. A body or mass of standing or flowing water, irrespective of size
or type; a sea, lake, river, etc.
1994 J. N. Cole Away All Boats 58 A small wooden boat that..had
been so badly treated that she was no longer seaworthy in any
waters, including Georgica Pond.
That's not "a water," is it.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
It really is time you learnt that your limited regional AmE is nowhere
near the sum total of English, ModE, or even AmE!
It's really time you learned that your provincial corner of Anglophonia no
longer rules the world of English.
Nobody on this side of the Pond is saying or implying that. It's just that
we say different things over here. We are quite happy for you to y=use
your English; can we not use ours?
So long as you (Madrigal in particular) don't pretend that it is The
Standard.

His use of "clearly" was clearly wrong.
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-06-03 16:50:11 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 08:50:02 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Usual bollocks! OED
Mere
2. A sheet of standing water; a lake; a pond, a pool. Now chiefly Brit.
regional and literary.
"Brit. Regional and Literary."
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
1998 Canal Boat & Inland Waterways June 101/1 Charter yachts
on the coast at Burnham-on-Crouch and on the meres of Friesland
had been withdrawn, owing to World War I.
Water
11. A body of water on the surface of the earth.
a. A body or mass of standing or flowing water, irrespective of size
or type; a sea, lake, river, etc.
1994 J. N. Cole Away All Boats 58 A small wooden boat that..had
been so badly treated that she was no longer seaworthy in any
waters, including Georgica Pond.
That's not "a water," is it.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
It really is time you learnt that your limited regional AmE is nowhere
near the sum total of English, ModE, or even AmE!
It's really time you learned that your provincial corner of Anglophonia no
longer rules the world of English.
Nobody on this side of the Pond is saying or implying that. It's just that
we say different things over here. We are quite happy for you to y=use
your English; can we not use ours?
So long as you (Madrigal in particular) don't pretend that it is The
Standard.
His use of "clearly" was clearly wrong.
Tangentially:

cashmere: a pool of money.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-03 19:43:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Duncanson [BrE]
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 08:50:02 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Usual bollocks! OED
Mere
2. A sheet of standing water; a lake; a pond, a pool. Now chiefly Brit.
regional and literary.
"Brit. Regional and Literary."
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
1998 Canal Boat & Inland Waterways June 101/1 Charter yachts
on the coast at Burnham-on-Crouch and on the meres of Friesland
had been withdrawn, owing to World War I.
Water
11. A body of water on the surface of the earth.
a. A body or mass of standing or flowing water, irrespective of size
or type; a sea, lake, river, etc.
1994 J. N. Cole Away All Boats 58 A small wooden boat that..had
been so badly treated that she was no longer seaworthy in any
waters, including Georgica Pond.
That's not "a water," is it.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
It really is time you learnt that your limited regional AmE is nowhere
near the sum total of English, ModE, or even AmE!
It's really time you learned that your provincial corner of Anglophonia no
longer rules the world of English.
Nobody on this side of the Pond is saying or implying that. It's just that
we say different things over here. We are quite happy for you to y=use
your English; can we not use ours?
So long as you (Madrigal in particular) don't pretend that it is The
Standard.
His use of "clearly" was clearly wrong.
cashmere: a pool of money.
A pun to no a-vail.
CDB
2018-06-03 17:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And
they're wrong for precisely the same reason in each
case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are
concerned there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to
right. I'm sure that you would not find it acceptable for
people to call you Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable
to call Windermere and Ullswater lakes when they are clearly
a mere and a water respectively and require no further
definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Go look in a mere, terrist.
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Usual bollocks! OED
Mere 2. A sheet of standing water; a lake; a pond, a pool. Now
chiefly Brit. regional and literary.
"Brit. Regional and Literary."
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
1998 Canal Boat & Inland Waterways June 101/1 Charter yachts
on the coast at Burnham-on-Crouch and on the meres of Friesland
had been withdrawn, owing to World War I.
Water 11. A body of water on the surface of the earth.
a. A body or mass of standing or flowing water, irrespective of
size or type; a sea, lake, river, etc.
1994 J. N. Cole Away All Boats 58 A small wooden boat
that..had been so badly treated that she was no longer seaworthy
in any waters, including Georgica Pond.
That's not "a water," is it.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
It really is time you learnt that your limited regional AmE is
nowhere near the sum total of English, ModE, or even AmE!
It's really time you learned that your provincial corner of
Anglophonia no longer rules the world of English.
Nobody on this side of the Pond is saying or implying that. It's just
that we say different things over here. We are quite happy for you to
y=use your English; can we not use ours?
Peter has often made these claims to authority since his arrival;
it goes on -- see his prediction elsethread that [even] Tony Cooper will
recognise that he "speak[s] for American English".

Most people simply pass on without comment; but that may have been a
mistake, even at the risk of being addressed in vulgar and childish
terms. Has he now really got you asking his permission to use your own
language?
Quinn C
2018-06-05 23:11:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
It really is time you learnt that your limited regional AmE is nowhere
near the sum total of English, ModE, or even AmE!
It's really time you learned that your provincial corner of
Anglophonia no longer rules the world of English.
See, they don't even rule the waves you are making about it.
--
If Helen Keller is alone in the forest and falls down, does she
make a sound?
Kerr-Mudd,John
2018-06-03 15:06:01 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 13:31:13 GMT, Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
In article <77cb13d5-9a5c-4e67-97c0-
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Usual bollocks! OED
Mere
2. A sheet of standing water; a lake; a pond, a pool. Now chiefly Brit.
regional and literary.
1998 Canal Boat & Inland Waterways June 101/1 Charter yachts
on the coast at Burnham-on-Crouch and on the meres of Friesland
had been withdrawn, owing to World War I.
Water
11. A body of water on the surface of the earth.
a. A body or mass of standing or flowing water, irrespective of size
or type; a sea, lake, river, etc.
1994 J. N. Cole Away All Boats 58 A small wooden boat that..had
been so badly treated that she was no longer seaworthy in any
waters, including Georgica Pond.
It really is time you learnt that your limited regional AmE is nowhere
near the sum total of English, ModE, or even AmE!
PTDFTT. TIA.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-03 15:52:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sun, 03 Jun 2018 13:31:13 GMT, Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
On Sunday, June 3, 2018 at 8:31:49 AM UTC-4, Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
In article <77cb13d5-9a5c-4e67-97c0-
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A
mere"
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Usual bollocks! OED
Mere
2. A sheet of standing water; a lake; a pond, a pool. Now chiefly
Brit.
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
regional and literary.
1998 Canal Boat & Inland Waterways June 101/1 Charter yachts
on the coast at Burnham-on-Crouch and on the meres of Friesland
had been withdrawn, owing to World War I.
Water
11. A body of water on the surface of the earth.
a. A body or mass of standing or flowing water, irrespective of size
or type; a sea, lake, river, etc.
1994 J. N. Cole Away All Boats 58 A small wooden boat that..had
been so badly treated that she was no longer seaworthy in any
waters, including Georgica Pond.
It really is time you learnt that your limited regional AmE is nowhere
near the sum total of English, ModE, or even AmE!
PTDFTT. TIA.
Fuck off, shithead. Or should I say "cunt," since you think that's inoffensive.
Peter Young
2018-06-03 14:52:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE usage.
"Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is also a
usual usage in modern BrE.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-03 15:48:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE usage.
"Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is also a
usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."

Even Tony Cooper might recognize that I speak for AmE here.
charles
2018-06-03 16:04:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned there
is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure that you
would not find it acceptable for people to call you Dickrichard. Why
should it be acceptable to call Windermere and Ullswater lakes when
they are clearly a mere and a water respectively and require no
further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A
mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE
usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is
also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Even Tony Cooper might recognize that I speak for AmE here
Just to add in another use of water: Some rivers, particularly in southern
Scotland, are called xxx water.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
GordonD
2018-06-04 21:12:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by charles
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned there
is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure that you
would not find it acceptable for people to call you Dickrichard. Why
should it be acceptable to call Windermere and Ullswater lakes when
they are clearly a mere and a water respectively and require no
further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A
mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE
usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is
also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Even Tony Cooper might recognize that I speak for AmE here
Just to add in another use of water: Some rivers, particularly in southern
Scotland, are called xxx water.
The main river through Edinburgh is the Water of Leith.
--
Gordon Davie
Edinburgh, Scotland
RH Draney
2018-06-05 01:20:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by GordonD
Post by charles
Just to add in another use of water: Some rivers, particularly in southern
Scotland, are called xxx water.
The main river through Edinburgh is the Water of Leith.
Not to be confused, one hopes, with the water of Lethe....r
Kerr-Mudd,John
2018-06-05 06:51:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by RH Draney
Post by GordonD
Post by charles
Just to add in another use of water: Some rivers, particularly in southern
Scotland, are called xxx water.
The main river through Edinburgh is the Water of Leith.
Not to be confused, one hopes, with the water of Lethe....r
I've drunk Leffe. I also needed some water. Does This Count?
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Peter Young
2018-06-03 16:14:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE usage.
"Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is also a
usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Katy Jennison
2018-06-03 17:06:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE usage.
"Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is also a
usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
I agree.

'ModE' includes BrE, unless I missed the memo.
--
Katy Jennison
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-03 19:45:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE usage.
"Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is also a
usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
I agree.
'ModE' includes BrE, unless I missed the memo.
I trust you two will be sending sternly worded notes to the OED. Along
with Mr Tobin's dissent.
Katy Jennison
2018-06-03 22:04:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE usage.
"Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is also a
usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
I agree.
'ModE' includes BrE, unless I missed the memo.
I trust you two will be sending sternly worded notes to the OED. Along
with Mr Tobin's dissent.
What is it about "Regional and Literary" that precludes ModE (your term)?

(Don't bother to answer that. I'm getting a life.)
--
Katy Jennison
Sam Plusnet
2018-06-03 21:21:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE usage.
"Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is also a
usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
I agree.
'ModE' includes BrE, unless I missed the memo.
The wording of that memo can be reconstructed from subsequent events.

Any use of English which falls within range of PTD's earlobes is ModE.
Any use of English which fails this acid test should be scorned and
rejected.
--
Sam Plusnet
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-04 04:01:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE usage.
"Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is also a
usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
I agree.
'ModE' includes BrE, unless I missed the memo.
The wording of that memo can be reconstructed from subsequent events.
Any use of English which falls within range of PTD's earlobes is ModE.
Any use of English which fails this acid test
could be labeled "Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Kerr-Mudd,John
2018-06-04 10:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A
mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE usage.
"Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is
also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
I agree.
'ModE' includes BrE, unless I missed the memo.
The wording of that memo can be reconstructed from subsequent events.
Any use of English which falls within range of PTD's earlobes is ModE.
Any use of English which fails this acid test should be scorned and
rejected.
It's quite a narrow definition; I suggest rather that it might be PTD that
has his own quirky set of limited words that only he knows the proper
definition of. Possibly 'shithead' as an acceptable response on usenet is
one.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-04 11:34:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
Post by Sam Plusnet
Post by Katy Jennison
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A
mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE usage.
"Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is
also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
I agree.
'ModE' includes BrE, unless I missed the memo.
The wording of that memo can be reconstructed from subsequent events.
Any use of English which falls within range of PTD's earlobes is ModE.
Any use of English which fails this acid test should be scorned and
rejected.
It's quite a narrow definition; I suggest rather that it might be PTD that
has his own quirky set of limited words that only he knows the proper
definition of. Possibly 'shithead' as an acceptable response on usenet is
one.
Fuck off, shithead cunt.
Peter Moylan
2018-06-04 01:48:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood by
any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have never
understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there any
difference?
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
b***@shaw.ca
2018-06-04 02:37:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood by
any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have never
understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there any
difference?
Wikipedia says that in British English, a mere is a lake that is
relatively broad and shallow. This is in part because many of them
began as standing water in fens and bogs.

Compare the Dutch "meer", which means "lake".

bill
Richard Yates
2018-06-04 04:15:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood by
any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have never
understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there any
difference?
Wikipedia says that in British English, a mere is a lake that is
relatively broad and shallow. This is in part because many of them
began as standing water in fens and bogs.
Compare the Dutch "meer", which means "lake".
What's the story with desert-dwelling meerkats then?
bill van
2018-06-04 05:11:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Yates
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood by
any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have never
understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there any
difference?
Wikipedia says that in British English, a mere is a lake that is
relatively broad and shallow. This is in part because many of them
began as standing water in fens and bogs.>
Compare the Dutch "meer", which means "lake".
What's the story with desert-dwelling meerkats then?
A comedy of errors, I believe. Dutch had "meerkat" to describe a small monkey;
it means "lake cat" so that's wrong, it's not a cat. Then the South
Africans, working with
their own branch of Dutch, misidentified these colony-dwelling animals,
which are related to mongooses and live in the Namibian desert. They're neither
cats nor monkeys. The Dutch for mongoose is "mangoest". Don't know why.

bill
CDB
2018-06-04 11:20:19 UTC
Permalink
[mere anarchy]

Resistance was useless.
Post by bill van
Post by Richard Yates
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Compare the Dutch "meer", which means "lake".
What's the story with desert-dwelling meerkats then?
A comedy of errors, I believe. Dutch had "meerkat" to describe a
small monkey; it means "lake cat" so that's wrong, it's not a cat.
Then the South Africans, working with their own branch of Dutch,
misidentified these colony-dwelling animals, which are related to
mongooses and live in the Namibian desert. They're neither cats nor
monkeys. The Dutch for mongoose is "mangoest". Don't know why.
Wp adds that "mier" is also Afrikaans for "termite", and suggests that
association as a source of the name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meerkat
bill van
2018-06-04 18:33:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by CDB
[mere anarchy]
Resistance was useless.
Post by bill van
Post by Richard Yates
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Compare the Dutch "meer", which means "lake".
What's the story with desert-dwelling meerkats then?
A comedy of errors, I believe. Dutch had "meerkat" to describe a small
monkey; it means "lake cat" so that's wrong, it's not a cat. Then the
South Africans, working with their own branch of Dutch, misidentified
these colony-dwelling animals, which are related to mongooses and live
in the Namibian desert. They're neither cats nor monkeys. The Dutch for
mongoose is "mangoest". Don't know why.
Wp adds that "mier" is also Afrikaans for "termite", and suggests that
association as a source of the name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meerkat
I missed that first time around and that seems possible. "Mier" is
Dutch for "ant" and termites are certainly ant-like insects. Meerkats
eat them and often live in termite mounds.

bill
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-06-04 18:48:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Post by CDB
[mere anarchy]
Resistance was useless.
Post by bill van
Post by Richard Yates
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Compare the Dutch "meer", which means "lake".
What's the story with desert-dwelling meerkats then?
A comedy of errors, I believe. Dutch had "meerkat" to describe a small
monkey; it means "lake cat" so that's wrong, it's not a cat. Then the
South Africans, working with their own branch of Dutch, misidentified
these colony-dwelling animals, which are related to mongooses and live
in the Namibian desert. They're neither cats nor monkeys. The Dutch for
mongoose is "mangoest". Don't know why.
Wp adds that "mier" is also Afrikaans for "termite", and suggests that
association as a source of the name.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meerkat
I missed that first time around and that seems possible. "Mier" is
Dutch for "ant" and termites are certainly ant-like insects.
Ant-like inasmuch as they're often called flying ants, but I've never
seen much similarity myself. They also resemble ants and bees in being
social insects. However, unlike bees they're not haplodiploid (haploid
males, diploid females).
Post by bill van
Meerkats eat them and often live in termite mounds.
bill
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-04 11:39:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Post by Richard Yates
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Compare the Dutch "meer", which means "lake".
What's the story with desert-dwelling meerkats then?
A comedy of errors, I believe. Dutch had "meerkat" to describe a small monkey;
it means "lake cat" so that's wrong, it's not a cat. Then the South
Africans, working with
their own branch of Dutch, misidentified these colony-dwelling animals,
which are related to mongooses and live in the Namibian desert. They're neither
cats nor monkeys. The Dutch for mongoose is "mangoest". Don't know why.
The first I heard of meerkats was in *The Lion King*. (The squiggler has
never heard of them, either.) That means there were none at, for instance,
the Bronx Zoo. Quite recently, I learned from a crossword puzzle that
"meerkat" was an alternative name for a more familiar beast, but it now
seems that they are not _exactly_ mongooses. Is it the same for "gnu"
and "wildebeest"?
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-06-04 12:25:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by bill van
Post by Richard Yates
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Compare the Dutch "meer", which means "lake".
What's the story with desert-dwelling meerkats then?
A comedy of errors, I believe. Dutch had "meerkat" to describe a small monkey;
it means "lake cat" so that's wrong, it's not a cat. Then the South
Africans, working with
their own branch of Dutch, misidentified these colony-dwelling animals,
which are related to mongooses and live in the Namibian desert. They're neither
cats nor monkeys. The Dutch for mongoose is "mangoest". Don't know why.
The first I heard of meerkats was in *The Lion King*. (The squiggler has
never heard of them, either.) That means there were none at, for instance,
the Bronx Zoo. Quite recently, I learned from a crossword puzzle that
"meerkat" was an alternative name for a more familiar beast, but it now
seems that they are not _exactly_ mongooses. Is it the same for "gnu"
and "wildebeest"?
No.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-04 13:16:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by bill van
Post by Richard Yates
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Compare the Dutch "meer", which means "lake".
What's the story with desert-dwelling meerkats then?
A comedy of errors, I believe. Dutch had "meerkat" to describe a small monkey;
it means "lake cat" so that's wrong, it's not a cat. Then the South
Africans, working with
their own branch of Dutch, misidentified these colony-dwelling animals,
which are related to mongooses and live in the Namibian desert. They're neither
cats nor monkeys. The Dutch for mongoose is "mangoest". Don't know why.
The first I heard of meerkats was in *The Lion King*. (The squiggler has
never heard of them, either.) That means there were none at, for instance,
the Bronx Zoo. Quite recently, I learned from a crossword puzzle that
"meerkat" was an alternative name for a more familiar beast, but it now
seems that they are not _exactly_ mongooses. Is it the same for "gnu"
and "wildebeest"?
No.
So those _are_ alternative names for the same animal. I can go back to
trusting crossword clues about obscure vocabulary (which generally
speaking belongs to an earlier era of crosswording, the unfortunate
tenure of Eugene Maleska at the New York Times).
Madrigal Gurneyhalt
2018-06-04 11:31:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood by
any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have never
understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there any
difference?
All lakes are meres but not all meres are lakes.
Anders D. Nygaard
2018-06-04 20:54:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood by
any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have never
understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there any
difference?
Is there any relation between "mere" and "muir"?

/Anders, Denmark.
charles
2018-06-04 21:05:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Anders D. Nygaard
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood by
any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have never
understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there any
difference?
Is there any relation between "mere" and "muir"?
"Muir" is a Scots spelling of "moor", so no connection.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Paul Wolff
2018-06-04 22:34:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood by
any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have never
understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there any
difference?
A mere can be more Gothic(k) than a mere lake. It may be befogged, for
example. It is perilously close to a mire (see, but do not fall into,
the great Grimpen Mire of Dartmoor).

I learnt this evening that Kenilworth Castle had a mere, until it (the
castle) was slighted by Parliament, back in the days when Parliament
actually got things done. The corresponding Wikiparticle has a
hover-note to say that a mere is shallow in relation to its area, and
has no thermocline. The depth of Windermere is over 200 feet, which
doesn't fit that limitation.
--
Paul
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-05 03:10:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood by
any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have never
understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there any
difference?
A mere can be more Gothic(k) than a mere lake. It may be befogged, for
example. It is perilously close to a mire (see, but do not fall into,
the great Grimpen Mire of Dartmoor).
I learnt this evening that Kenilworth Castle had a mere, until it (the
castle) was slighted by Parliament, back in the days when Parliament
actually got things done. The corresponding Wikiparticle has a
hover-note to say that a mere is shallow in relation to its area, and
has no thermocline. The depth of Windermere is over 200 feet, which
doesn't fit that limitation.
So after all that, Windermere isn't even a mere.
bill van
2018-06-05 05:56:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood by
any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have never
understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there any
difference?
A mere can be more Gothic(k) than a mere lake. It may be befogged, for
example. It is perilously close to a mire (see, but do not fall into,
the great Grimpen Mire of Dartmoor).
I learnt this evening that Kenilworth Castle had a mere, until it (the
castle) was slighted by Parliament, back in the days when Parliament
actually got things done. The corresponding Wikiparticle has a
hover-note to say that a mere is shallow in relation to its area, and
has no thermocline. The depth of Windermere is over 200 feet, which
doesn't fit that limitation.
So after all that, Windermere isn't even a mere.
That's not unusual. We have a Lake Windermere in the southeast corner
of British Columbia, but it is neither a lake nor a mere. It is a
widening of the Columbia River, which has two towns on its shores:
Windermere and Invermere. It's a scenic area with mountains and water
within a few hours' drive of Calgary, in neighbouring Alberta, thick
with resorts, motels and waterfront cabins. And there are soothing
waters nearby at Radium Hot Springs.

bill
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2018-06-05 07:28:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood by
any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have never
understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there any
difference?
A mere can be more Gothic(k) than a mere lake. It may be befogged, for
example. It is perilously close to a mire (see, but do not fall into,
the great Grimpen Mire of Dartmoor).
I learnt this evening that Kenilworth Castle had a mere, until it (the
castle) was slighted by Parliament, back in the days when Parliament
actually got things done. The corresponding Wikiparticle has a
hover-note to say that a mere is shallow in relation to its area, and
has no thermocline. The depth of Windermere is over 200 feet, which
doesn't fit that limitation.
So after all that, Windermere isn't even a mere.
That's not unusual. We have a Lake Windermere in the southeast corner
of British Columbia, but it is neither a lake nor a mere. It is a
widening of the Columbia River,
How wide does the wide part of a river have to be before it becomes a
lake? The Rhône flows into one end of the Lake of Geneva and flows out
of the other end: is it just a widening of the Rhône? Are the Detroit
River and the Niagara River two different names for the same river, or
two different rivers? If the former, is Lake Erie just a wide bit of a
river?
Post by bill van
which has two towns on its shores: Windermere and Invermere. It's a
scenic area with mountains and water within a few hours' drive of
Calgary, in neighbouring Alberta, thick with resorts, motels and
waterfront cabins. And there are soothing waters nearby at Radium Hot
Springs.
bill
--
athel
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-05 13:21:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Athel Cornish-Bowden
Post by bill van
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood by
any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have never
understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there any
difference?
A mere can be more Gothic(k) than a mere lake. It may be befogged, for
example. It is perilously close to a mire (see, but do not fall into,
the great Grimpen Mire of Dartmoor).
I learnt this evening that Kenilworth Castle had a mere, until it (the
castle) was slighted by Parliament, back in the days when Parliament
actually got things done. The corresponding Wikiparticle has a
hover-note to say that a mere is shallow in relation to its area, and
has no thermocline. The depth of Windermere is over 200 feet, which
doesn't fit that limitation.
So after all that, Windermere isn't even a mere.
That's not unusual. We have a Lake Windermere in the southeast corner
of British Columbia, but it is neither a lake nor a mere. It is a
widening of the Columbia River,
How wide does the wide part of a river have to be before it becomes a
lake? The Rhône flows into one end of the Lake of Geneva and flows out
of the other end: is it just a widening of the Rhône? Are the Detroit
River and the Niagara River two different names for the same river, or
two different rivers? If the former, is Lake Erie just a wide bit of a
river?
The widest part of the Hudson is called the Tappan Zee (though we pronounce
it as English rather than Dutch).

There may still be some maps that call the part of the Hudson along the
Manhattan piers the North River (the South River was the mouth of the
Delaware), but I don't know how far north that designation went.
Peter Moylan
2018-06-05 08:35:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
That's not unusual. We have a Lake Windermere in the southeast corner
of British Columbia, but it is neither a lake nor a mere. It is a
Windermere and Invermere. It's a scenic area with mountains and water
within a few hours' drive of Calgary, in neighbouring Alberta, thick
with resorts, motels and waterfront cabins. And there are soothing
waters nearby at Radium Hot Springs.
Etymologically, "inver" means the mouth of a river. (Think of Inverness,
where the Ness meets the sea.) The point where the river meets a
widening is stretching the definition a bit.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-06-05 10:08:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass.
"A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in my
opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood by
any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have never
understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there any
difference?
A mere can be more Gothic(k) than a mere lake. It may be befogged, for
example. It is perilously close to a mire (see, but do not fall into,
the great Grimpen Mire of Dartmoor).
I learnt this evening that Kenilworth Castle had a mere, until it (the
castle) was slighted by Parliament, back in the days when Parliament
actually got things done. The corresponding Wikiparticle has a
hover-note to say that a mere is shallow in relation to its area, and
has no thermocline. The depth of Windermere is over 200 feet, which
doesn't fit that limitation.
So after all that, Windermere isn't even a mere.
That's not unusual. We have a Lake Windermere in the southeast corner
of British Columbia, but it is neither a lake nor a mere. It is a
Windermere and Invermere. It's a scenic area with mountains and water
within a few hours' drive of Calgary, in neighbouring Alberta, thick
with resorts, motels and waterfront cabins. And there are soothing
waters nearby at Radium Hot Springs.
bill
Ah, Radium Hot Springs. Radium was once thought to have curative
properties, along with other radioactive substances. That was before the
harmful "side-effects" were known.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_radiation_therapy

because radiation was found to exist in hot spring waters which were
reputed for their curative powers, it was marketed as a wonder cure
for all sorts of ailments in patent medicine and quack cures. It was
believed by medical science that small doses of radiation would
cause no harm and the harmful effects of large doses were temporary.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioactive_quackery
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-05 13:19:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Paul Wolff
I learnt this evening that Kenilworth Castle had a mere, until it (the
castle) was slighted by Parliament, back in the days when Parliament
actually got things done. The corresponding Wikiparticle has a
hover-note to say that a mere is shallow in relation to its area, and
has no thermocline. The depth of Windermere is over 200 feet, which
doesn't fit that limitation.
So after all that, Windermere isn't even a mere.
That's not unusual. We have a Lake Windermere in the southeast corner
of British Columbia, but it is neither a lake nor a mere. It is a
Windermere and Invermere. It's a scenic area with mountains and water
within a few hours' drive of Calgary, in neighbouring Alberta, thick
with resorts, motels and waterfront cabins. And there are soothing
waters nearby at Radium Hot Springs.
But I don't think you were claiming that "mere" is a word in CanE!

My first glimpse of gorgeous Vancouver (1975) was as the termini of a bus tour of the Canadian Rockies, which went as far east as Banff / Lake
Louise and as far north as Prince Georges and Prince Rupert. The city
was utterly changed the next time (1994, a LACUS meeting at UBC), when
it had been completely taken over by high-rise apartment buildings; we
were told it was wealthy Hong Kongers anticipating 1998 who had moved to
the closest available bit of Commonwealth. Still gorgeous, but more in a
New York / Chicago sort of way.
Peter Young
2018-06-05 16:22:43 UTC
Permalink
On 5 Jun 2018 "Peter T. Daniels" <***@verizon.net> wrote:

[snip]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
My first glimpse of gorgeous Vancouver (1975) was as the termini
Oy! Termini aren't what it used to be.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Peter Moylan
2018-06-05 16:38:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
[snip]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
My first glimpse of gorgeous Vancouver (1975) was as the termini
Oy! Termini aren't what it used to be.
I don't know enough Latin to comment, but I presume you are saying that
the plural should really be terminūs.

In English, PTD probably should have said terminuses.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-05 16:46:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
My first glimpse of gorgeous Vancouver (1975) was as the termini
Oy! Termini aren't what it used to be.
I don't know enough Latin to comment, but I presume you are saying that
the plural should really be terminūs.
Nope, plain old second declension.
Post by Peter Moylan
In English, PTD probably should have said terminuses.
To be sure, I say concertos not concerti [the squiggler accepts both], but
some Latin words seem less acclimatized than some Italian ones.
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-05 16:43:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
[snip]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
My first glimpse of gorgeous Vancouver (1975) was as the termini
Oy! Termini aren't what it used to be.
? The bus tour began and ended there. One place, two terminal functions.
You aren't suggesting that a journey can't begin at a terminal, are you?

If so, how does a train ever leave Grand Central Terminal? (It's unlike
Penn Station, not many blocks to the southwest, which serves tracks that
have crossed under both the Hudson and the East Rivers, and a train could
pass straight through from New Jersey to Long Island.)
Peter Young
2018-06-05 17:14:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
[snip]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
My first glimpse of gorgeous Vancouver (1975) was as the termini
Oy! Termini aren't what it used to be.
? The bus tour began and ended there. One place, two terminal functions.
You aren't suggesting that a journey can't begin at a terminal, are you?
However, your first glimpse was at *a* terminus, not at *a* termini! Your
last glimpse was at one of two termini.

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-05 17:47:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
[snip]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
My first glimpse of gorgeous Vancouver (1975) was as the termini
Oy! Termini aren't what it used to be.
? The bus tour began and ended there. One place, two terminal functions.
You aren't suggesting that a journey can't begin at a terminal, are you?
However, your first glimpse was at *a* terminus, not at *a* termini! Your
last glimpse was at one of two termini.
No, the singular was the city; it had two functions, each of them being a
terminus, so it was the termini.
Peter Young
2018-06-05 18:51:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
[snip]
Post by Peter T. Daniels
My first glimpse of gorgeous Vancouver (1975) was as the termini
Oy! Termini aren't what it used to be.
? The bus tour began and ended there. One place, two terminal functions.
You aren't suggesting that a journey can't begin at a terminal, are you?
However, your first glimpse was at *a* terminus, not at *a* termini! Your
last glimpse was at one of two termini.
No, the singular was the city; it had two functions, each of them being a
terminus, so it was the termini.
Not in my BrE, so we will have to agree to disagree,

Peter.
--
Peter Young, (BrE, RP), Consultant Anaesthetist, 1975-2004.
(US equivalent: Certified Anesthesiologist) (AUE Pt)
Cheltenham and Gloucester, UK. Now happily retired.
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
bill van
2018-06-05 18:19:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by bill van
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Paul Wolff
I learnt this evening that Kenilworth Castle had a mere, until it (the
castle) was slighted by Parliament, back in the days when Parliament
actually got things done. The corresponding Wikiparticle has a
hover-note to say that a mere is shallow in relation to its area, and
has no thermocline. The depth of Windermere is over 200 feet, which
doesn't fit that limitation.
So after all that, Windermere isn't even a mere.
That's not unusual. We have a Lake Windermere in the southeast corner
of British Columbia, but it is neither a lake nor a mere. It is a
Windermere and Invermere. It's a scenic area with mountains and water
within a few hours' drive of Calgary, in neighbouring Alberta, thick
with resorts, motels and waterfront cabins. And there are soothing
waters nearby at Radium Hot Springs.
But I don't think you were claiming that "mere" is a word in CanE!
My first glimpse of gorgeous Vancouver (1975) was as the termini of a
bus tour of the Canadian Rockies, which went as far east as Banff / Lake
Louise and as far north as Prince Georges and Prince Rupert. The city
was utterly changed the next time (1994, a LACUS meeting at UBC), when
it had been completely taken over by high-rise apartment buildings; we
were told it was wealthy Hong Kongers anticipating 1998 who had moved to
the closest available bit of Commonwealth. Still gorgeous, but more in a
New York / Chicago sort of way.
Sure, if New York and Chicago had mountains across the harbour high
enough to ski on.
Tony Cooper
2018-06-05 18:38:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by bill van
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Paul Wolff
I learnt this evening that Kenilworth Castle had a mere, until it (the
castle) was slighted by Parliament, back in the days when Parliament
actually got things done. The corresponding Wikiparticle has a
hover-note to say that a mere is shallow in relation to its area, and
has no thermocline. The depth of Windermere is over 200 feet, which
doesn't fit that limitation.
So after all that, Windermere isn't even a mere.
That's not unusual. We have a Lake Windermere in the southeast corner
of British Columbia, but it is neither a lake nor a mere. It is a
Windermere and Invermere. It's a scenic area with mountains and water
within a few hours' drive of Calgary, in neighbouring Alberta, thick
with resorts, motels and waterfront cabins. And there are soothing
waters nearby at Radium Hot Springs.
But I don't think you were claiming that "mere" is a word in CanE!
My first glimpse of gorgeous Vancouver (1975) was as the termini of a
bus tour of the Canadian Rockies, which went as far east as Banff / Lake
Louise and as far north as Prince Georges and Prince Rupert. The city
was utterly changed the next time (1994, a LACUS meeting at UBC), when
it had been completely taken over by high-rise apartment buildings; we
were told it was wealthy Hong Kongers anticipating 1998 who had moved to
the closest available bit of Commonwealth. Still gorgeous, but more in a
New York / Chicago sort of way.
Sure, if New York and Chicago had mountains across the harbour high
enough to ski on.
Ain't no mountain high enough.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-05 19:50:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by bill van
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by bill van
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Paul Wolff
I learnt this evening that Kenilworth Castle had a mere, until it (the
castle) was slighted by Parliament, back in the days when Parliament
actually got things done. The corresponding Wikiparticle has a
hover-note to say that a mere is shallow in relation to its area, and
has no thermocline. The depth of Windermere is over 200 feet, which
doesn't fit that limitation.
So after all that, Windermere isn't even a mere.
That's not unusual. We have a Lake Windermere in the southeast corner
of British Columbia, but it is neither a lake nor a mere. It is a
Windermere and Invermere. It's a scenic area with mountains and water
within a few hours' drive of Calgary, in neighbouring Alberta, thick
with resorts, motels and waterfront cabins. And there are soothing
waters nearby at Radium Hot Springs.
But I don't think you were claiming that "mere" is a word in CanE!
My first glimpse of gorgeous Vancouver (1975) was as the termini of a
bus tour of the Canadian Rockies, which went as far east as Banff / Lake
Louise and as far north as Prince Georges and Prince Rupert. The city
was utterly changed the next time (1994, a LACUS meeting at UBC), when
it had been completely taken over by high-rise apartment buildings; we
were told it was wealthy Hong Kongers anticipating 1998 who had moved to
the closest available bit of Commonwealth. Still gorgeous, but more in a
New York / Chicago sort of way.
Sure, if New York and Chicago had mountains across the harbour high
enough to ski on.
The Ramapo and Watchung Mountains -- which are plenty high enough to have
given George Washington and his troops a very miserable winter, worse than
Valley Forge had been the year before -- could serve as such a backdrop.

Vancouver had a skyline consisting of high-rise apartment towers. There
were mountains behind them. They probably went somewhat up the sides of
the mountains, too. Maybe the authorities were prescient enough to set
aside most of the mountatins so the developers couldn't despoil them.

Oddly, the time I changed planes in Denver I saw that the city didn't
extend as far west as the mountains -- there was still some empty Plains
or Prairie in between, and there were what looked like expensive suburbs
on the slopes. (That might have been as long ago as the Vancouver trip,
and things may have changed: when I first learned to drive and had a car,
in 1980, I went exploring around Chicagoland. One day I went all the way
out to Elgin (famed for manufacturing watches), and there were fields,
with corn and cows, along the way. Years later I headed out there again,
and the entire highway was lined with suburban-style roadside amenities
(shopping malls, individual businesses, etc.).
CDB
2018-06-05 12:15:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Wolff
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a
glass. "A mere" has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo"
perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different
from AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in
BrE, and "mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Regional perhaps, but understood anywhere. Not only literary in
my opinion.
The word "mere" appears in enough places that it will be understood
by any literate English speaker, but I must admit that I have
never understood the difference between a mere and a lake. Is there
any difference?
A mere can be more Gothic(k) than a mere lake. It may be befogged,
for example. It is perilously close to a mire (see, but do not fall
into, the great Grimpen Mire of Dartmoor).
You knew the Ushers were an old family when you learned they had a tarn.
Post by Paul Wolff
I learnt this evening that Kenilworth Castle had a mere, until it
(the castle) was slighted by Parliament, back in the days when
Parliament actually got things done. The corresponding Wikiparticle
has a hover-note to say that a mere is shallow in relation to its
area, and has no thermocline. The depth of Windermere is over 200
feet, which doesn't fit that limitation.
Sam Plusnet
2018-06-05 20:42:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paul Wolff
I learnt this evening that Kenilworth Castle had a mere, until it (the
castle) was slighted by Parliament, back in the days when Parliament
actually got things done.
IIRC most of the slighting of our local castles[1] was done by private
contractors, who were no doubt amply repaid for their efforts.

[1] We have lots of them.
--
Sam Plusnet
Tony Cooper
2018-06-03 20:42:35 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 08:48:17 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE usage.
"Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is also a
usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Even Tony Cooper might recognize that I speak for AmE here.
The town of Windermere, Florida is in the Orlando Metropolitan
Statistical Area. This Windermere is known for expensive real estate
and a very aggressive police force when it comes to handing out
traffic tickets. Also notable for being a town in which outhouses
(privvies, dunnys, or whatever they are called where you live) are
banned by a (1956) law.

It's also known for famous (fsv of "famous") residents like Shaquille
O'Neil, (basketball) Ken Griffey Jr (baseball), Tiger Woods (golf),
and Wesley Snipes (actor). Some may know of David and Jackie Siegel,
who are building a 90,000 square foot, $100 million, mansion they
modestly call "Versailles". The movie "The Queen of Versailles"
featured Jackie Siegel as herself.

A watered-down history of the town yields that it was founded in 1887
when the US government was giving 160 acres of free land to anyone
willing to cultivate five of those acres and build a cabin. John
Dawe, an Englishman, laid out the town and gave it the name.

There is no Lake Windermere in the area, but the town limits include
parts of the shorelines of several lakes in the Butler Chain of Lakes.

I feel it in my waters that PTD will not feel that I have stayed
on-point in this, but perhaps I can divert him by noting that
Longfellow use "water" - actually "big-sea-water" - to describe Lake
Superior.

Open to question are the plural spellings of "privvy" and "dunny".
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Peter Moylan
2018-06-04 01:50:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
Open to question are the plural spellings of "privvy" and "dunny".
In my experience, the plurals are always privies and dunnies.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-04 04:02:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Tony Cooper
Open to question are the plural spellings of "privvy" and "dunny".
In my experience, the plurals are always privies and dunnies.
What else could they be?
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-04 04:00:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 08:48:17 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Peter Young
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
"A water" is a serving of water in a bottle or maybe a glass. "A mere"
has no meaning in ModE. "A mere peccadillo" perhaps?
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE usage.
"Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is also a
usual usage in modern BrE.
"Brit. Chiefly Regional and Literary."
Even Tony Cooper might recognize that I speak for AmE here.
The town of Windermere, Florida is in the Orlando Metropolitan
Statistical Area. This Windermere is known for
nothing to do with lakes.

The former Windermere Hotel in Hyde Park, Chicago, is now U of C student
housing. Nothing to do with lakes, or even the Lake.

(Incidentally, "The shining big sea waters" isn't "a water," either.)
Richard Tobin
2018-06-03 17:35:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Young
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE usage.
"Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere" is also a
usual usage in modern BrE.
I don't think either of them is common except as parts of names. In
fact I don't recall ever hearing anyone use either. I can imagine
saying someone "there's a mere over there" but I can't even think
of a sentence in which "a water" would sound reasonable.

-- Richard
Peter Moylan
2018-06-04 01:52:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Peter Young
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE
usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere"
is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
I don't think either of them is common except as parts of names. In
fact I don't recall ever hearing anyone use either. I can imagine
saying someone "there's a mere over there" but I can't even think of
a sentence in which "a water" would sound reasonable.
Common enough in the plural. "He has sailed these waters for many
years." The context makes it clear that it's not about a bottle of
mineral water.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-04 04:03:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Peter Young
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE
usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere"
is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
I don't think either of them is common except as parts of names. In
fact I don't recall ever hearing anyone use either. I can imagine
saying someone "there's a mere over there" but I can't even think of
a sentence in which "a water" would sound reasonable.
Common enough in the plural. "He has sailed these waters for many
years." The context makes it clear that it's not about a bottle of
mineral water.
Not "a water."

Nor even "the water."
Richard Yates
2018-06-04 04:18:02 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 11:52:25 +1000, Peter Moylan
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Peter Young
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE
usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere"
is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
I don't think either of them is common except as parts of names. In
fact I don't recall ever hearing anyone use either. I can imagine
saying someone "there's a mere over there" but I can't even think of
a sentence in which "a water" would sound reasonable.
Common enough in the plural. "He has sailed these waters for many
years." The context makes it clear that it's not about a bottle of
mineral water.
People also "take the waters" at spas, which apparently includes both
bathing and drinking.
Mark Brader
2018-06-04 07:06:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Yates
People also "take the waters" at spas, which apparently includes both
bathing and drinking.
"What in heaven's name brought you to Casablanca?"
"My health: I came to Casablanca for the waters."
"The waters? What waters? We're in the desert."
"I was misinformed."
--
Mark Brader | "Of course, another problem... is that famous quotations
Toronto | mutate faster than you'd expect."
***@vex.net | --Donna Richoux
Richard Tobin
2018-06-04 09:56:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Peter Young
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from AmE
usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and "mere"
is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
I don't think either of them is common except as parts of names. In
fact I don't recall ever hearing anyone use either. I can imagine
saying someone "there's a mere over there" but I can't even think of
a sentence in which "a water" would sound reasonable.
Common enough in the plural. "He has sailed these waters for many
years." The context makes it clear that it's not about a bottle of
mineral water.
Yes, but that's a quite different use. It's not the plural of
"water" meaning "lake".

-- Richard
CDB
2018-06-04 10:56:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter Moylan
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Peter Young
Once again I have to point out that BrE usage is different from
AmE usage. "Water" in the sense of a lake is common in BrE, and
"mere" is also a usual usage in modern BrE.
I don't think either of them is common except as parts of names.
In fact I don't recall ever hearing anyone use either. I can
imagine saying someone "there's a mere over there" but I can't even
think of a sentence in which "a water" would sound reasonable.
Common enough in the plural. "He has sailed these waters for many
years." The context makes it clear that it's not about a bottle of
mineral water.
And it can mean an undifferentiated* body of water: "Hang your clothes
on a hickory limb, but don't go near the water" was not about the
bottled stuff either.
_______________________________________
*But definite? The use of "the" seems to be required.
Richard Tobin
2018-06-03 14:04:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
Calling people by the names they choose is a matter of politeness.
Applying that to lakes is political correctness gone mad.

-- Richard
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2018-06-03 16:42:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Richard Tobin
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
No, their usage is as good as yours.
'Common' is not the same as 'good'. Where names are concerned
there is right and wrong and wrong is inferior to right. I'm sure
that you would not find it acceptable for people to call you
Dickrichard. Why should it be acceptable to call Windermere and
Ullswater lakes when they are clearly a mere and a water
respectively and require no further definition?
Calling people by the names they choose is a matter of politeness.
Applying that to lakes is political correctness gone mad.
-- Richard
Unless the lake is a person such as the actress Veronica Lake (born
Constance Frances Marie Ockelman).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veronica_Lake#In_popular_culture

A geographical feature called "Lake Veronica" was a recurring joke
in the Rocky and Bullwinkle series and film.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Anders D. Nygaard
2018-06-03 13:29:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Sat, 02 Jun 2018 20:35:19 GMT, Madrigal Gurneyhalt
[]
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Lewis
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why
some lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
[]
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Bassenthwaite Lake is one of the largest bodies of water in the Lake
District. It's also the only official lake in the region. That appears
to be troublesome for your theory.
People refer to Lake Windermere, though.
They do, just as people refer to the Sahara Desert. And they're
wrong for precisely the same reason in each case.
I take it you are not a fan?

/Anders, Denmark.
soup
2018-06-03 10:10:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's naming
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Skylake,
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the pattern,
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?) and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Bassenthwaite Lake is one of the largest bodies of water in the Lake
District. It's also the only official lake in the region. That appears to be
troublesome for your theory.
Even better . In an ostensibly English speaking country, there is
only one lake , lake of Menteith; in Scotland[1].

[1] To be strictly accurate that is not right . The Lake of
Menteith is Scotland's only inland "natural" body of water. There are
also a number of man-made lakes - Pressmennan Lake in East Lothian is an
artificial reservoir constructed in 1819. It lies in a gully in the
Lammermuir Hills, above the village of Stenton. It is roughly 2
kilometres in length but less than 100 metres broad. Others include the
Lake of the Hirsel in the Scottish Borders and Lake Louise (within the
grounds of Skibo Castle). Just to muddy the waters (as it were), there
is also a sea bay near Kirkcudbright known as Manxmans Lake.
Janet
2018-06-03 10:44:05 UTC
Permalink
In article <B8PQC.206877$***@fx32.am4>, ***@hotmail.com
says...
Post by soup
Post by Madrigal Gurneyhalt
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's naming
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Skylake,
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the pattern,
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?) and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Bassenthwaite Lake is one of the largest bodies of water in the Lake
District. It's also the only official lake in the region. That appears to be
troublesome for your theory.
Even better . In an ostensibly English speaking country, there is
only one lake , lake of Menteith; in Scotland[1].
[1] To be strictly accurate that is not right . The Lake of
Menteith is Scotland's only inland "natural" body of water.
That is not quite right either. It may be Scotland's only natural
inland body of water *called lake*, but there are are countless inland
natural bodies of water in Scotland called lochs.

Janet


There are
Post by soup
also a number of man-made lakes - Pressmennan Lake in East Lothian is an
artificial reservoir constructed in 1819. It lies in a gully in the
Lammermuir Hills, above the village of Stenton. It is roughly 2
kilometres in length but less than 100 metres broad. Others include the
Lake of the Hirsel in the Scottish Borders and Lake Louise (within the
grounds of Skibo Castle). Just to muddy the waters (as it were), there
is also a sea bay near Kirkcudbright known as Manxmans Lake.
soup
2018-06-03 16:01:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Janet
says...
Post by soup
Even better . In an ostensibly English speaking country, there is
only one lake , lake of Menteith; in Scotland[1].
[1] To be strictly accurate that is not right . The Lake of
Menteith is Scotland's only inland "natural" body of water.
Perhaps there should have been a 'called Lake~something' in there but I
didn't think it was needed (well I didn't actually think off it)
Post by Janet
That is not quite right either. It may be Scotland's only natural
inland body of water *called lake*, but there are are countless inland
natural bodies of water in Scotland called lochs.
OK on re-reading it would appear that a simple 'called lake' would
have avoided any ambiguity.
So 'among Scotland's myriad of inland natural bodies of water
there is only one termed Lake'.
Joseph C. Fineman
2018-06-02 21:00:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).
I see on the map of NH that Lake Winnepesaukee (largish -- maybe 15 mi
long) has the much smaller Lake Winnisquam nearby, but Newfound Lake &
Ossipee Lake are not far.

Lake Ronkonkoma on Long Island, NY, is unprepossessing (less than a mile
across).

Lake Champlain is, I dare say, large & important enough to deserve the
honor.
--
--- Joe Fineman ***@verizon.net

||: Hold your nose and vote the straight Democratic ticket. :||
Ross
2018-06-02 22:31:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's naming
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Skylake,
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the pattern,
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?) and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
--
I never wanted to do this in the first place.
Interesting question. The "Lake X" pattern must be due to French influence;
I don't think it exists in the other Germanic languages. And of course
"lake" is a French borrowing.

But so are "mount(ain)" and "river". Is there any similar division there?
I think "Mount X" dominates, certainly for the larger ones. The "X Mountain"s
I can think of are all pretty small, hills really.

"X River" is pretty much the rule in North America (and NZ), but in
the Old Country "River X" is common, isn't it?
Mark Brader
2018-06-02 23:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by Lewis
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the [word] lake first...
I don't think it exists in the other Germanic languages. And of course
"lake" is a French borrowing.
When we did this in 2004, Andrew Gwilliam rote:
|| I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but wouldn't "Lake X"
|| in AmE be influenced by many placenames originally coming from
|| French/Spanish maps etc? ... Which would sort of suggest the Eastern
|| lakes were much more commonly of the "X Lake" type; I'm too lazy
|| to go trawl through an atlas though.

And I responded:

| Fortunately, we now have computers to do that. (See signature quote.)
| I just downloaded the raw data files for the 50 US states and DC from
| the US Geological Survey's Geographic Names Information System, and
| looked at all entries where the "feature type" field was either "lake"
| or "reservoir". I then counted the ones in each state where the name
| was either "X Lake" or "Lake X" (usually listed as "X, Lake" in the
| database), where X is a *single* word in each case -- I ignored the ones
| named in other manners.
|
| It turns out that for natural lakes, there is a fairly clear split
| between East Coast states, where "Lake X" is quite a common pattern,
| and the rest of the country, where it isn't. For reservoirs named
| using the word Lake, the relative prevalence of "Lake X" is about
| twice as high as for natural lakes, and the states where it's
| relatively common in this use include a number of Midwest states.
|
| The table below -- to be viewed in a monospaced font, of course --
| is sorted on by the percentage of "Lake X" for natural lakes.
| In the left-hand column, ** indicates states on the Atlantic coast
| (excluding the Gulf of Mexico), while *'s are not on the Atlantic
| coast but are within 100 miles of it.
|
| State <--- lakes ---> <- reservoirs ->
| X Lake Lake X X Lake Lake X
|
| (entire US) 40704 3430 = 7.8% 14049 2648 = 15.9%
|
| ** DE 1 2 = 66.7% 13 1 = 7.1%
| ** VA 8 9 = 52.9% 336 122 = 26.6%
| ** MD 12 12 = 50.0% 44 36 = 45.0%
| * WV 5 4 = 44.4% 65 10 = 13.3%
| ** FL 1454 1034 = 41.6% 35 23 = 39.7%
| * VT 32 19 = 37.3% 28 21 = 42.9%
| ** MA 62 21 = 25.3% 64 30 = 31.9%
| ** NJ 117 36 = 23.5% 290 77 = 21.0%
| ** CT 70 21 = 23.1% 70 42 = 37.5%
| ** RI 14 4 = 22.2% 8 2 = 20.0%
| ** NH 67 18 = 21.2% 68 12 = 15.0%
| ** NC 97 25 = 20.5% 691 145 = 17.3%
| OH 170 37 = 17.9% 310 79 = 20.3%
| * PA 208 40 = 16.1% 319 121 = 27.5%
| SD 321 53 = 14.2% 123 45 = 26.8%
| ** NY 915 135 = 12.9% 155 35 = 18.4%
| HI 7 1 = 12.5% 0 0
| LA 835 110 = 11.6% 71 14 = 16.5%
| ** GA 336 36 = 9.7% 2175 220 = 9.2%
| ND 584 60 = 9.3% 48 17 = 26.2%
| IL 501 51 = 9.2% 447 122 = 21.4%
| AL 171 17 = 9.0% 819 164 = 16.7%
| WA 2124 205 = 8.8% 166 48 = 22.4%
| IA 172 15 = 8.0% 63 30 = 32.3%
| OK 143 10 = 6.5% 390 68 = 14.8%
| AK 2344 162 = 6.5% 23 3 = 11.5%
| WY 821 55 = 6.3% 48 8 = 14.3%
| MO 243 15 = 5.8% 1105 134 = 10.8%
| CO 951 57 = 5.7% 350 45 = 11.4%
| TN 137 8 = 5.5% 402 40 = 9.0%
| MN 7022 370 = 5.0% 298 19 = 6.0%
| IN 549 27 = 4.7% 344 48 = 12.2%
| MT 1500 69 = 4.4% 150 15 = 9.1%
| MI 5402 240 = 4.3% 58 22 = 27.5%
| KS 45 2 = 4.3% 120 32 = 21.1%
| CA 1753 73 = 4.0% 278 116 = 29.4%
| WI 4038 164 = 3.9% 148 41 = 21.7%
| OR 1215 45 = 3.6% 119 15 = 11.2%
| TX 1191 41 = 3.3% 2027 251 = 11.0%
| ** SC 232 8 = 3.3% 245 88 = 26.4%
| ** ME 364 12 = 3.2% 111 9 = 7.5%
| AR 700 23 = 3.2% 506 125 = 19.8%
| MS 717 23 = 3.1% 289 56 = 16.2%
| KY 99 3 = 2.9% 105 19 = 15.3%
| NM 522 15 = 2.8% 133 34 = 20.4%
| UT 533 15 = 2.7% 118 8 = 6.3%
| AZ 256 7 = 2.7% 89 15 = 14.4%
| NE 654 10 = 1.5% 85 15 = 15.0%
| ID 852 10 = 1.2% 75 5 = 6.2%
| NV 137 1 = 0.7% 25 1 = 3.8%
| * DC 1 0 = 0.0% 0 0
--
Mark Brader "Computers get paid to extract relevant
Toronto information from files; people should not
***@vex.net have to do such mundane tasks." -- Ian Darwin

My text in this article is in the public domain.
Ross
2018-06-03 01:21:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mark Brader
Post by Ross
Post by Lewis
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the [word] lake first...
I don't think it exists in the other Germanic languages. And of course
"lake" is a French borrowing.
|| I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but wouldn't "Lake X"
|| in AmE be influenced by many placenames originally coming from
|| French/Spanish maps etc? ... Which would sort of suggest the Eastern
|| lakes were much more commonly of the "X Lake" type; I'm too lazy
|| to go trawl through an atlas though.
| Fortunately, we now have computers to do that. (See signature quote.)
| I just downloaded the raw data files for the 50 US states and DC from
| the US Geological Survey's Geographic Names Information System, and
| looked at all entries where the "feature type" field was either "lake"
| or "reservoir". I then counted the ones in each state where the name
| was either "X Lake" or "Lake X" (usually listed as "X, Lake" in the
| database), where X is a *single* word in each case -- I ignored the ones
| named in other manners.
|
| It turns out that for natural lakes, there is a fairly clear split
| between East Coast states, where "Lake X" is quite a common pattern,
| and the rest of the country, where it isn't. For reservoirs named
| using the word Lake, the relative prevalence of "Lake X" is about
| twice as high as for natural lakes, and the states where it's
| relatively common in this use include a number of Midwest states.
|
| The table below -- to be viewed in a monospaced font, of course --
| is sorted on by the percentage of "Lake X" for natural lakes.
| In the left-hand column, ** indicates states on the Atlantic coast
| (excluding the Gulf of Mexico), while *'s are not on the Atlantic
| coast but are within 100 miles of it.
|
| State <--- lakes ---> <- reservoirs ->
| X Lake Lake X X Lake Lake X
|
| (entire US) 40704 3430 = 7.8% 14049 2648 = 15.9%
|
| ** DE 1 2 = 66.7% 13 1 = 7.1%
| ** VA 8 9 = 52.9% 336 122 = 26.6%
| ** MD 12 12 = 50.0% 44 36 = 45.0%
| * WV 5 4 = 44.4% 65 10 = 13.3%
| ** FL 1454 1034 = 41.6% 35 23 = 39.7%
| * VT 32 19 = 37.3% 28 21 = 42.9%
| ** MA 62 21 = 25.3% 64 30 = 31.9%
| ** NJ 117 36 = 23.5% 290 77 = 21.0%
| ** CT 70 21 = 23.1% 70 42 = 37.5%
| ** RI 14 4 = 22.2% 8 2 = 20.0%
| ** NH 67 18 = 21.2% 68 12 = 15.0%
| ** NC 97 25 = 20.5% 691 145 = 17.3%
| OH 170 37 = 17.9% 310 79 = 20.3%
| * PA 208 40 = 16.1% 319 121 = 27.5%
| SD 321 53 = 14.2% 123 45 = 26.8%
| ** NY 915 135 = 12.9% 155 35 = 18.4%
| HI 7 1 = 12.5% 0 0
| LA 835 110 = 11.6% 71 14 = 16.5%
| ** GA 336 36 = 9.7% 2175 220 = 9.2%
| ND 584 60 = 9.3% 48 17 = 26.2%
| IL 501 51 = 9.2% 447 122 = 21.4%
| AL 171 17 = 9.0% 819 164 = 16.7%
| WA 2124 205 = 8.8% 166 48 = 22.4%
| IA 172 15 = 8.0% 63 30 = 32.3%
| OK 143 10 = 6.5% 390 68 = 14.8%
| AK 2344 162 = 6.5% 23 3 = 11.5%
| WY 821 55 = 6.3% 48 8 = 14.3%
| MO 243 15 = 5.8% 1105 134 = 10.8%
| CO 951 57 = 5.7% 350 45 = 11.4%
| TN 137 8 = 5.5% 402 40 = 9.0%
| MN 7022 370 = 5.0% 298 19 = 6.0%
| IN 549 27 = 4.7% 344 48 = 12.2%
| MT 1500 69 = 4.4% 150 15 = 9.1%
| MI 5402 240 = 4.3% 58 22 = 27.5%
| KS 45 2 = 4.3% 120 32 = 21.1%
| CA 1753 73 = 4.0% 278 116 = 29.4%
| WI 4038 164 = 3.9% 148 41 = 21.7%
| OR 1215 45 = 3.6% 119 15 = 11.2%
| TX 1191 41 = 3.3% 2027 251 = 11.0%
| ** SC 232 8 = 3.3% 245 88 = 26.4%
| ** ME 364 12 = 3.2% 111 9 = 7.5%
| AR 700 23 = 3.2% 506 125 = 19.8%
| MS 717 23 = 3.1% 289 56 = 16.2%
| KY 99 3 = 2.9% 105 19 = 15.3%
| NM 522 15 = 2.8% 133 34 = 20.4%
| UT 533 15 = 2.7% 118 8 = 6.3%
| AZ 256 7 = 2.7% 89 15 = 14.4%
| NE 654 10 = 1.5% 85 15 = 15.0%
| ID 852 10 = 1.2% 75 5 = 6.2%
| NV 137 1 = 0.7% 25 1 = 3.8%
| * DC 1 0 = 0.0% 0 0
--
Mark Brader "Computers get paid to extract relevant
Toronto information from files; people should not
My text in this article is in the public domain.
Amazing. One might hesitantly conclude that the "Lake X" pattern is
older (and tending to give way to "X Lake"), but was perpetuated by
the public authorities who bestowed names on the new lakes (reservoirs).

Meanwhile, I found a list of some hundreds of lakes in New Zealand

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lakes_of_New_Zealand

All of the 33 largest are "Lake X", except for two which are called "X Lagoon".
The "Lake X" pattern is by far the most common, extending down to very
small things like tiny dune lakes with areas under one hectare.
Of the "X Lake"s (100+) none was large enough or important enough that
its name was familiar to me. If there is any common feature it is that
many of them have transparently descriptive English names (Swan Lake,
Blue Lake, Round Lake), which would sound silly in the other order.
b***@shaw.ca
2018-06-02 23:50:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's naming
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Skylake,
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the pattern,
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?) and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Interesting question. The "Lake X" pattern must be due to French influence;
I don't think it exists in the other Germanic languages. And of course
"lake" is a French borrowing.
But so are "mount(ain)" and "river". Is there any similar division there?
I think "Mount X" dominates, certainly for the larger ones. The "X Mountain"s
I can think of are all pretty small, hills really.
This is intriguing. I found a Wikip page listing all the named mountains
in Canada. That's a lot, so I counted only the Alberta ones, all of which
are in the Rocky Mountains chain. There were 65 Mounts, 22 Mountains, and
21 others, the majority of them Peaks. It might be that the Mounts were
taller on average, but the Mountains included some significant peaks,
remembered from my Calgary days when we used to drive and hike in
the Rockies.
Post by Ross
"X River" is pretty much the rule in North America (and NZ), but in
the Old Country "River X" is common, isn't it?
bill
Ross
2018-06-03 00:59:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Ross
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's naming
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Skylake,
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the pattern,
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?) and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Interesting question. The "Lake X" pattern must be due to French influence;
I don't think it exists in the other Germanic languages. And of course
"lake" is a French borrowing.
But so are "mount(ain)" and "river". Is there any similar division there?
I think "Mount X" dominates, certainly for the larger ones. The "X Mountain"s
I can think of are all pretty small, hills really.
This is intriguing. I found a Wikip page listing all the named mountains
in Canada. That's a lot, so I counted only the Alberta ones, all of which
are in the Rocky Mountains chain. There were 65 Mounts, 22 Mountains, and
21 others, the majority of them Peaks. It might be that the Mounts were
taller on average, but the Mountains included some significant peaks,
remembered from my Calgary days when we used to drive and hike in
the Rockies.
More hard work! I fear that to find any system in this we would need
to research the histories of when and by whom the names were bestowed,
not to mention the policies of various geographic-naming bodies.

Anyhow, at the small end, I found a pretty exhaustive list of the
volcanic cones in our area:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland_volcanic_field

These are mostly under 200m high. Of the ones that are called "hill"
or "mount(ain)" there were:

7 Hills
5 "X Mountain"
12 "Mount X"

Neither the choice of "hill" or "mountain" nor "Mount X" vs "X Mountain"
shows any obvious correlation with actual height.
Jerry Friedman
2018-06-03 02:37:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ross
Post by b***@shaw.ca
Post by Ross
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's naming
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Skylake,
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the pattern,
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?) and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Interesting question. The "Lake X" pattern must be due to French influence;
I don't think it exists in the other Germanic languages. And of course
"lake" is a French borrowing.
But so are "mount(ain)" and "river". Is there any similar division there?
I think "Mount X" dominates, certainly for the larger ones. The "X Mountain"s
I can think of are all pretty small, hills really.
This is intriguing. I found a Wikip page listing all the named mountains
in Canada. That's a lot, so I counted only the Alberta ones, all of which
are in the Rocky Mountains chain. There were 65 Mounts, 22 Mountains, and
21 others, the majority of them Peaks. It might be that the Mounts were
taller on average, but the Mountains included some significant peaks,
remembered from my Calgary days when we used to drive and hike in
the Rockies.
More hard work! I fear that to find any system in this we would need
to research the histories of when and by whom the names were bestowed,
not to mention the policies of various geographic-naming bodies.
Anyhow, at the small end, I found a pretty exhaustive list of the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auckland_volcanic_field
These are mostly under 200m high. Of the ones that are called "hill"
7 Hills
5 "X Mountain"
12 "Mount X"
Neither the choice of "hill" or "mountain" nor "Mount X" vs "X Mountain"
shows any obvious correlation with actual height.
The pattern Ross mentioned for lakes shows up here in New Mexico for
Mountains. They tend to have descriptive names: Elk Mountain, Round
Mountain, Grass Mountain. We have very few Mounts X, though. Lots of
Peaks, a few Baldys, and the odd Cerro or one-named mountain (Chicoma, a
name in the Tewa language).
--
Jerry Friedman
J. J. Lodder
2018-06-03 15:18:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's naming
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Skylake,
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the pattern,
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?) and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Wrong guess. The Great Salt Lake really is an inland lake,
and all the salt comes from the rivers feeding it,

Jan
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-03 15:54:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by Lewis
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake
Good grief.
Post by Lewis
and the
Post by Lewis
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Wrong guess. The Great Salt Lake really is an inland lake,
and all the salt comes from the rivers feeding it,
You think some of the salts in the Caspian are left over from the time
when it was connected to the ocean?
J. J. Lodder
2018-06-03 18:21:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Post by Lewis
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake
Good grief.
Post by Lewis
and the
Post by Lewis
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Wrong guess. The Great Salt Lake really is an inland lake,
and all the salt comes from the rivers feeding it,
You think some of the salts in the Caspian are left over from the time
when it was connected to the ocean?
???? I haven't said anything at all about the Caspian Sea,

Jan
Peter T. Daniels
2018-06-03 19:53:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Post by Lewis
Post by Lewis
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake
Good grief.
Post by Lewis
and the
Post by Lewis
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Wrong guess. The Great Salt Lake really is an inland lake,
and all the salt comes from the rivers feeding it,
You think some of the salts in the Caspian are left over from the time
when it was connected to the ocean?
???? I haven't said anything at all about the Caspian Sea,
?? Screwie Lewie claimed that the Great Salt Lake is like the Caspian
Sea, salt because it used to be attached to the ocean, and you didn't
deny that that was the source of Caspian salinity.
Lewis
2018-06-04 01:26:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's naming
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Skylake,
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the pattern,
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?) and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Wrong guess. The Great Salt Lake really is an inland lake,
and all the salt comes from the rivers feeding it,
The Great Salt Lake is most certainly the remains of an ocean that
covered the western portion of North America. But yes, it's very high
salt content is because water only flows into it.
--
I prefer bitter drinks, like coffee, and tears.
Tak To
2018-06-04 04:03:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lewis
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's naming
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Skylake,
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the pattern,
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?) and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Wrong guess. The Great Salt Lake really is an inland lake,
and all the salt comes from the rivers feeding it,
The Great Salt Lake is most certainly the remains of an ocean that
covered the western portion of North America.
The Great Salt lake is a tiny remain of the prehistoric Lake
Bonneville, which is not part of the ocean.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Salt_Lake
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Bonneville
Post by Lewis
But yes, it's very high
salt content is because water only flows into it.
--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr
Richard Yates
2018-06-04 04:20:37 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 01:26:50 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's naming
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Skylake,
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the pattern,
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?) and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Wrong guess. The Great Salt Lake really is an inland lake,
and all the salt comes from the rivers feeding it,
The Great Salt Lake is most certainly the remains of an ocean that
covered the western portion of North America. But yes, it's very high
salt content is because water only flows into it.
Aha! A misplaced "only" that is of consequence, for water also falls
into it.
Lewis
2018-06-05 10:53:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Yates
On Mon, 4 Jun 2018 01:26:50 -0000 (UTC), Lewis
Post by Lewis
Post by J. J. Lodder
Post by Lewis
I was talking with a friend about computers, as I am wont to do, and we
got onto the topic of CPUs and then on to the topic of Intel's naming
scheme for the current line of CPUs, Kaby Lake, Coffee Lake, Skylake,
and my friend complained abut the 'silly' names and why couldn't they
pick names of real lakes like Lake Michigan.
I did tell him that the processors were, in fact, named for real lakes.
But then I wondered, similarly to a previous topic on rivers, why some
lakes are Lake Name and other lakes are Name Lake.
I think it is largely based on size. All the large lakes I can think of
(Lake Victoria, Lake Superior, Lake Huron) have the lake first
(Obviously excluding lakes without lake in their name like the Caspian
Sea and the Dead Sea).
There are two large lakes in Canada that partially break the pattern,
Great Bear Lake and Great Slave Lake, and I am not sure if some others
fit or not (Lake Winnipeg of Winnipeg Lake?) and "Great" seems to break
the pattern in other cases as well (Great Salt Lake).
I did learn that Lake Michigan-Huron is, in fact, a single lake and the
largest freshwater lake in the world (and the Caspian Sea isn't really a
lake but an actual ocean, a remnant of an ancient ocean that was
stranded millions of years ago, I'd guess similar to the Great Salt Lake.)
Wrong guess. The Great Salt Lake really is an inland lake,
and all the salt comes from the rivers feeding it,
The Great Salt Lake is most certainly the remains of an ocean that
covered the western portion of North America. But yes, it's very high
salt content is because water only flows into it.
Aha! A misplaced "only" that is of consequence, for water also falls
into it.
Have you BEEN to Utah? Not much water falls into it. Most of what does
is water that has previously risen up from it.
--
"Woof bloody woof."
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