Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone?

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"

Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

soup

2021-09-17 20:04:40 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).

From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk

The origins of the term ‘red brick university’ go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ‘red brick’ label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.

Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

Jerry Friedman

2021-09-17 22:04:50 UTC

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term ‘red brick university’ go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ‘red brick’ label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

It's about universities in /Tinker, Tailor/. Incidentally, in American English,
"inner city suburban" would be a contradiction in terms.

--
Jerry Friedman

Mack A. Damia

2021-09-17 22:38:15 UTC

On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 15:04:50 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term red brick university go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their red brick label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

It's about universities in /Tinker, Tailor/. Incidentally, in American English,
"inner city suburban" would be a contradiction in terms.

I think John le Carré must have collaborated on the 1979 version; he
thought Guinness's performance was excellent, and he must have given
some input during the writing of the screenplay. He certainly did in
the 2011 version.

In the author's subsequent works featuring George Smiley, he tailored
Smiley to Guinness.

soup

2021-09-18 09:28:58 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
Incidentally, in American English,
"inner city suburban" would be a contradiction in terms.

It would here too.
Mea culpa I wrote one thing (inner city)then changed my mind (to
suburban) without editing properly.

Jerry Friedman

2021-09-18 14:27:47 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
Incidentally, in American English,
"inner city suburban" would be a contradiction in terms.

It would here too.
Mea culpa I wrote one thing (inner city)then changed my mind (to
suburban) without editing properly.

Got it, thanks.

--
Jerry Friedman

Mack A. Damia

2021-09-17 22:25:43 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term red brick university go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their red brick label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

That may be the answer. Found this from the 1979 screenplay script
starring Alec Guinness:

You featherhead, Martindale! You pompous,
bogus, gossiping old featherhead!

Roy Bland is not redbrick.
He was at St Antony's College, Oxford.

Oh, don't be silly, dear.
Of course St Antony is redbrick.

Makes no difference there's a bit
of sandstone in the same street.

charles

2021-09-21 08:35:36 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term red brick university go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their red brick label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

That may be the answer. Found this from the 1979 screenplay script
You featherhead, Martindale! You pompous,
bogus, gossiping old featherhead!
Roy Bland is not redbrick.
He was at St Antony's College, Oxford.
Oh, don't be silly, dear.
Of course St Antony is redbrick.
Makes no difference there's a bit
of sandstone in the same street.

My Cambridge college was made of red brick - in 1428. There's not a lot of
stone in the Fens.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Neill Massello

2021-09-18 09:48:42 UTC

"Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy is about betrayal at the highest levels of
the British intelligence bureaucracy. The story is also loosely based
on the case of the infamous Cambridge spy ring that passed on valuable
information to the Soviet Union. The fact that these traitors were
pillars of British society, shocked a nation that prided itself on
safeguarding traditions and believing in the stable rigidity of class
distinctions."

I suppose Kim Philby and the others could be described as red sandstone.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2021-09-18 10:02:05 UTC

Post by Neill Massello

I suppose Kim Philby and the others could be described as red sandstone.

I don't remember Oxford or Cambridge being referred to as sandstone,
though maybe they are. At least one college (Keble) is as redbrick as
you could ask for. It was called (though not by its inmates) The
largest public toilet in the world.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

phil

2021-09-18 11:17:42 UTC

On 2021-09-17 at 14:26:50 MDT, "Mack A. Damia"

I suppose Kim Philby and the others could be described as red sandstone.

Did the Society for the Demolition of Keble College (I think that was
its title) exist in your day? As I recall, the membership fee was one
brick from Keble per year.

Stoat

2021-09-19 00:43:26 UTC

On 2021-09-17 at 14:26:50 MDT, "Mack A. Damia"

I suppose Kim Philby and the others could be described as red sandstone.

Nor I. Always as "Oxbridge"

In a novel, the title and author of which I have forgotten, the
hero(?)'s university was described as "white tile". The implication was
that it would be suitable for urinating on.

--brian

--
Wellington
New Zealand

Kerr-Mudd, John

2021-09-19 20:18:28 UTC

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 22:03:42 +0200

On 2021-09-17 at 14:26:50 MDT, "Mack A. Damia"

"Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy is about betrayal at the highest
levels of the British intelligence bureaucracy. The story is
also loosely based on the case of the infamous Cambridge spy
ring that passed on valuable information to the Soviet Union.
The fact that these traitors were pillars of British society,
shocked a nation that prided itself on safeguarding traditions
and believing in the stable rigidity of class distinctions."

I suppose Kim Philby and the others could be described as red sandstone.

I don't remember Oxford or Cambridge being referred to as
sandstone, though maybe they are. At least one college (Keble) is
as redbrick as you could ask for. It was called (though not by its
inmates) The largest public toilet in the world.

Red brick being ugly is fairly recent snobbery,
as British history goes. (say from late 18th)
Red brick was still good enough for Henry VIII,

Quite the reverse, from the History programs I've seen; back then brick was: New!, Cool!, Trendy, and (/because) Expensive.

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

J. J. Lodder

2021-09-20 09:43:03 UTC

Post by Kerr-Mudd, John
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 22:03:42 +0200

On 2021-09-17 at 14:26:50 MDT, "Mack A. Damia"

"Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy is about betrayal at the highest
levels of the British intelligence bureaucracy. The story is
also loosely based on the case of the infamous Cambridge spy
ring that passed on valuable information to the Soviet Union.
The fact that these traitors were pillars of British society,
shocked a nation that prided itself on safeguarding traditions
and believing in the stable rigidity of class distinctions."

I suppose Kim Philby and the others could be described as red sandstone.

I don't remember Oxford or Cambridge being referred to as
sandstone, though maybe they are. At least one college (Keble) is
as redbrick as you could ask for. It was called (though not by its
inmates) The largest public toilet in the world.

Red brick being ugly is fairly recent snobbery,
as British history goes. (say from late 18th)
Red brick was still good enough for Henry VIII,

Quite the reverse, from the History programs I've seen; back then brick
was: New!, Cool!, Trendy, and (/because) Expensive.

Bill Bryson has a chapter (Cellar) mostly on brick, in his:
At Home: A Short History of Private Life
Summary: The art of making good bricks and laying them correctly
was a medieval Dutch development.
Henry and others imported the technology and the craftsmen.
It really is not as simple as it seems,

Jan

Sam Plusnet

2021-09-20 20:09:58 UTC

Red brick being ugly is fairly recent snobbery,
as British history goes. (say from late 18th)
Red brick was still good enough for Henry VIII,

By the 18th Century, nothing was good for Henry Mk.8.

J. J. Lodder

2021-09-20 21:10:42 UTC

Red brick being ugly is fairly recent snobbery,
as British history goes. (say from late 18th)
Red brick was still good enough for Henry VIII,

By the 18th Century, nothing was good for Henry Mk.8.

That Henry was never replaced by a later model,

Jan

Janet

2021-09-21 14:03:14 UTC

In article <***@de-ster.xs4all.nl>, ***@de-
ster.demon.nl says...

Post by J. J. Lodder

Red brick being ugly is fairly recent snobbery,
as British history goes. (say from late 18th)
Red brick was still good enough for Henry VIII,

By the 18th Century, nothing was good for Henry Mk.8.

That Henry was never replaced by a later model,

He was/is, but the latest Henry has been shipped off to America.

Janet

Janet

2021-09-18 10:20:43 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term ?red brick university? go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ?red brick? label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

It's undoubtedly a university reference.

Redbrick/ sandstone home carries no class distinction in Britain,
since stone built buildings are associated with all. Castles cottages
mansions and inner city tenements and workers homes were all built in
stone.

Janet

Mack A. Damia

2021-09-18 18:19:10 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term ?red brick university? go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ?red brick? label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

It's undoubtedly a university reference.
Redbrick/ sandstone home carries no class distinction in Britain,
since stone built buildings are associated with all. Castles cottages
mansions and inner city tenements and workers homes were all built in
stone.

Not convinced. The story itself is crawling with class-consciousness.

He is asking about the cultural/social phenomenon of class
distinctions in terms known only to a few.

Sam Plusnet

2021-09-18 20:52:33 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term ‘red brick university’ go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ‘red brick’ label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

Interesting analysis. Not certain that it is applicable.

"Red brick" is certainly a reference to a range of newer universities
which lack the prestige of those older establishments.
I don't recall coming across the "Sandstone" reference before, since it
suggests that older universities are built alike - which I don't believe.

Mack A. Damia

2021-09-19 00:36:57 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term red brick university go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their red brick label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

Interesting analysis. Not certain that it is applicable.

To be truthful, whatever I heard sounded like class distinction.

I would have thought that brick is more expensive than sandstone. I
really have no knowledge of the cost of either, but that is what came
to mind.

Jerry Friedman

2021-09-19 14:04:42 UTC

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term ‘red brick university’ go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ‘red brick’ label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

Interesting analysis. Not certain that it is applicable.

To be truthful, whatever I heard sounded like class distinction.

I agree that it's about class--specifically that Oxford and Cambridge
were considered higher-class than the redbrick universities. In the
book there's no doubt. I don't know about the TV or film scripts.

Post by Mack A. Damia
I would have thought that brick is more expensive than sandstone. I
really have no knowledge of the cost of either, but that is what came
to mind.

Sandstone has to be broken out of solid rock, but I don't know
either.

--
Jerry Friedman

Peter Moylan

2021-09-20 02:53:49 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
I would have thought that brick is more expensive than sandstone. I
really have no knowledge of the cost of either, but that is what came
to mind.

Sandstone has to be broken out of solid rock, but I don't know
either.

Bricks are easier to transport. Sandstone comes in huge blocks that have
to be hauled by slaves.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Sam Plusnet

2021-09-20 20:12:35 UTC

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Mack A. Damia
I would have thought that brick is more expensive than sandstone. I
really have no knowledge of the cost of either, but that is what came
to mind.

Sandstone has to be broken out of solid rock, but I don't know
either.

Bricks are easier to transport. Sandstone comes in huge blocks that have
to be hauled by slaves.

For many of those earliest Stately Homes to be built in brick, the
bricks were made on site from (more or less) local materials.

Ditto for mud brick in Mesopotamia I imagine.

J. J. Lodder

2021-09-20 21:10:43 UTC

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Mack A. Damia
I would have thought that brick is more expensive than sandstone. I
really have no knowledge of the cost of either, but that is what came
to mind.

Sandstone has to be broken out of solid rock, but I don't know
either.

Bricks are easier to transport. Sandstone comes in huge blocks that have
to be hauled by slaves.

For many of those earliest Stately Homes to be built in brick, the
bricks were made on site from (more or less) local materials.

And you can often see in the park where the clay came from,
(look for the water feature)

Jan

Peter Moylan

2021-09-21 02:48:41 UTC

Post by Peter Moylan

Post by Mack A. Damia
I would have thought that brick is more expensive than
sandstone. I really have no knowledge of the cost of either,
but that is what came to mind.

Sandstone has to be broken out of solid rock, but I don't know
either.

Bricks are easier to transport. Sandstone comes in huge blocks
that have to be hauled by slaves.

For many of those earliest Stately Homes to be built in brick, the
bricks were made on site from (more or less) local materials.

And you can often see in the park where the clay came from, (look for
the water feature)

"Brickworks Park" appears to be a popular name.

Brickworks Park in Wallsend, not far from where I live, is a pleasant
place to walk through. It's only when you look at the edges that you
realise that half a hill is missing. This was more obvious back in the
days - not so very long ago - where they were still making bricks there.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Peter T. Daniels

2021-09-19 13:53:54 UTC

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term ‘red brick university’ go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ‘red brick’ label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

Interesting analysis. Not certain that it is applicable.

And really, how useful is sandstone as a building material? Chicago
has been afraid of wood construction since 1871, and at first everything
was made of Indiana limestone, which is a pale yellow and seems to
have withstood weathering for a century and a half. (The 20th century
brought mostly brick construction -- including many hectares of tenements
built for the 1893 World's Fair to house tourists that since then have housed
renters.)

Looking for a contrast with "red brick," wouldn't "granite" have been more
impressive?

Tony Cooper

2021-09-19 14:45:38 UTC

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 06:53:54 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Peter T. Daniels
And really, how useful is sandstone as a building material? Chicago
has been afraid of wood construction since 1871, and at first everything
was made of Indiana limestone, which is a pale yellow and seems to
have withstood weathering for a century and a half.

Indiana limestone, to my eye, is gray. And, my eye has seen a lot of
limestone. The older buildings on the Indiana University campus are
limestone. I have spent quite a few weekend hours at the limestone
quarries near Bloomington, Indiana. That's where we took dates and
picnicked and swam. Many public buildings and private homes in
Indianapolis were made of limestone.

Limestone can be pale yellow if it was quarried from an area with a
high iron or magnanese presence, but gray is the predominate color.

Drifting a bit, because I feel like it...Limestone-carrying trucks
were the most frightening things to me when I was in college. Southern
Indiana, unlike the northern part of the state, is hilly. Not
moutainous, but certainly hilly.

In the late 50s, when I was in college, my vehicle was a 1948 Austin
A40 Devon. The engine power was roughly that of a sewing machine's
output. Traveling around the area around Bloomington there were hills
that the Austin strained to gain, but allowed a decent speed on the
downside.

Limestone was transported from the quarries in flatbed trucks that
were often WWII surplus vehicles. On the downside of a hill, the
weight of the limestone overcame any effect of brakes.

With a limestone truck behind me on one of those roads, the truck
would travel down the hill until it was almost in my backseat and my
hope of survival was that I could increase the distance at the next
uphill stretch. All I could do is refuse to look in the rearview
mirror and hope. To look might have meant being paralyzed with fear.

--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

Jerry Friedman

2021-09-19 15:09:48 UTC

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 8:45:46 AM UTC-6, Tony Cooper wrote:

[Indiana]

Post by Tony Cooper
In the late 50s, when I was in college, my vehicle was a 1948 Austin
A40 Devon. The engine power was roughly that of a sewing machine's
output. Traveling around the area around Bloomington there were hills
that the Austin strained to gain, but allowed a decent speed on the
downside.
Limestone was transported from the quarries in flatbed trucks that
were often WWII surplus vehicles. On the downside of a hill, the
weight of the limestone overcame any effect of brakes.
With a limestone truck behind me on one of those roads, the truck
would travel down the hill until it was almost in my backseat and my
hope of survival was that I could increase the distance at the next
uphill stretch. All I could do is refuse to look in the rearview
mirror and hope. To look might have meant being paralyzed with fear.

No shoulder to pull off onto?

--
Jerry Friedman

Tony Cooper

2021-09-19 15:27:08 UTC

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 08:09:48 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman

Post by Jerry Friedman
[Indiana]

No shoulder to pull off onto?

To pull off on the shoulder would require slowing down to watch for
one with enough space. I don't know if the truck would understand
that the turn flashers on the Austin that popped out of the side of
the car between the front and back doors were actually turn
indicators. Also, the trucks came up so fast from nowhere that such
decisions were a non-starter.

--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

Peter Moylan

2021-09-20 02:46:45 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 8:45:46 AM UTC-6, Tony Cooper
[Indiana]

Post by Tony Cooper
In the late 50s, when I was in college, my vehicle was a 1948
Austin A40 Devon. The engine power was roughly that of a sewing
machine's output. Traveling around the area around Bloomington
there were hills that the Austin strained to gain, but allowed a
decent speed on the downside.
Limestone was transported from the quarries in flatbed trucks that
were often WWII surplus vehicles. On the downside of a hill, the
weight of the limestone overcame any effect of brakes.
With a limestone truck behind me on one of those roads, the truck
would travel down the hill until it was almost in my backseat and
my hope of survival was that I could increase the distance at the
next uphill stretch. All I could do is refuse to look in the
rearview mirror and hope. To look might have meant being paralyzed
with fear.

No shoulder to pull off onto?

Logging trucks are a hazard in a mountainous area near here. The trucks
take almost the full width of the (often muddy) road, their brakes don't
work, and there's no way to pull over without going off a precipice.

My wife was nearly wiped out by a logging truck in Scotland. She was
taking a photograph from a bridge. Suddenly a truck appeared from around
a curve, going at about twice the speed limit, and it looked to be about
the same width as the bridge. She ran like crazy; didn't think of diving
into the stream.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Jerry Friedman

2021-09-20 04:14:02 UTC

On Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 9:46:49 PM UTC-6, Peter Moylan wrote:

[the wages of fear of trucks carrying limestone]

Post by Peter Moylan
Logging trucks are a hazard in a mountainous area near here. The trucks
take almost the full width of the (often muddy) road, their brakes don't
work, and there's no way to pull over without going off a precipice.
My wife was nearly wiped out by a logging truck in Scotland. She was
taking a photograph from a bridge. Suddenly a truck appeared from around
a curve, going at about twice the speed limit, and it looked to be about
the same width as the bridge. She ran like crazy; didn't think of diving
into the stream.

Speaking of movies, /Stand By Me/. But you can get hurt diving into a
stream, too.

In 1999, two women were killed in my town when the logs on a logging
truck slipped off onto their car.

https://www.newspapers.com/clip/11639895/espanola-logging-truck-fatal/

The truck probably looked something like this.

https://pixels.com/featured/peterbilt-logging-truck-rambles-on-highway-70-new-mexico-wernher-krutein.html

--
Jerry Friedman

Snidely

2021-09-20 19:25:41 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
[the wages of fear of trucks carrying limestone]

Speaking of movies, /Stand By Me/. But you can get hurt diving into a
stream, too.
In 1999, two women were killed in my town when the logs on a logging
truck slipped off onto their car.
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/11639895/espanola-logging-truck-fatal/
The truck probably looked something like this.
https://pixels.com/featured/peterbilt-logging-truck-rambles-on-highway-70-new-mexico-wernher-krutein.html

Oregon logging trucks are similar. Finding models of that style
requires patience (but yes, they can be found in HO).

/dps

--
"Inviting people to laugh with you while you are laughing at yourself
is a good thing to do, You may be a fool but you're the fool in
charge." -- Carl Reiner

bil...@shaw.ca

2021-09-20 20:13:27 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
[the wages of fear of trucks carrying limestone]

Speaking of movies, /Stand By Me/. But you can get hurt diving into a
stream, too.
In 1999, two women were killed in my town when the logs on a logging
truck slipped off onto their car.
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/11639895/espanola-logging-truck-fatal/
The truck probably looked something like this.
https://pixels.com/featured/peterbilt-logging-truck-rambles-on-highway-70-new-mexico-wernher-krutein.html

Oregon logging trucks are similar. Finding models of that style
requires patience (but yes, they can be found in HO).

Logging trucks like that were being used in Haida Gwaii (then called
the Queen Charlotte Islands) when I spent a few weeks there in the 1980s.
There was one stretch of road that was both an active logging road
and the only route to our campground. The trucks were about as wide
as the road, and there were very few pullouts. Dense forest on both
sides of the road, of course.

The instruction for tourists was to stop and wait when you reached
a fork in the road beyond which there were logging trucks. When
a truck passed in the direction you wanted to go, you pulled out
and followed the truck as closely as possible. That kept you safe
from oncoming trucks. The truck drivers communicated with each
other by radio, which prevented collisions.

When you reached your turnoff, you had to turn quickly, before
another truck came along. Same thing getting off the road.
The logging trucks were so heavy it took them a while to
slow and stop, so the tourists had to make all the adjustments.

The trip was kind of hairy, but the campground was worth it.
There was fresh-water well with a pump, a few picnic tables,
wooden outhouses, and many shades of green. The ground
was covered with thick moss, and Spanish moss hung
from every tree branch.

bill

J. J. Lodder

2021-09-21 16:09:10 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
[the wages of fear of trucks carrying limestone]

Speaking of movies, /Stand By Me/. But you can get hurt diving into a
stream, too.
In 1999, two women were killed in my town when the logs on a logging
truck slipped off onto their car.
https://www.newspapers.com/clip/11639895/espanola-logging-truck-fatal/
The truck probably looked something like this.
https://pixels.com/featured/peterbilt-logging-truck-rambles-on-highway-70-new-

mexico-wernher-krutein.html

Getting killed by a log falling off is overdoing it.
A mere floorboard will do,

Jan

Madhu

2021-09-19 15:15:18 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
Indiana limestone, to my eye, is gray. And, my eye has seen a lot of
limestone. The older buildings on the Indiana University campus are
limestone. I have spent quite a few weekend hours at the limestone
quarries near Bloomington, Indiana. That's where we took dates and
picnicked and swam. Many public buildings and private homes in
Indianapolis were made of limestone.
Limestone can be pale yellow if it was quarried from an area with a
high iron or magnanese presence, but gray is the predominate color.

I expect `predominant' adj. but i bet i've seen predominate in this
position a few times.

Athel Cornish-Bowden

2021-09-19 17:05:29 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 06:53:54 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

There is a lot of limestone around here, and it's essentially white.

Post by Tony Cooper
Drifting a bit, because I feel like it...Limestone-carrying trucks
were the most frightening things to me when I was in college.

Between 1950 and 1955 I lived close to a china-clay pit. The lorries
that brought it out drove fast and without due attention to other road
users. They were the most frightening things around.

Post by Tony Cooper
Southern
Indiana, unlike the northern part of the state, is hilly. Not
moutainous, but certainly hilly.
In the late 50s, when I was in college, my vehicle was a 1948 Austin
A40 Devon. The engine power was roughly that of a sewing machine's
output. Traveling around the area around Bloomington there were hills
that the Austin strained to gain, but allowed a decent speed on the
downside.
Limestone was transported from the quarries in flatbed trucks that
were often WWII surplus vehicles. On the downside of a hill, the
weight of the limestone overcame any effect of brakes.
With a limestone truck behind me on one of those roads, the truck
would travel down the hill until it was almost in my backseat and my
hope of survival was that I could increase the distance at the next
uphill stretch. All I could do is refuse to look in the rearview
mirror and hope. To look might have meant being paralyzed with fear.

--
Athel -- French and British, living mainly in England until 1987.

Peter T. Daniels

2021-09-19 19:24:56 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 06:53:54 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Indiana limestone, to my eye, is gray. And, my eye has seen a lot of
limestone. The older buildings on the Indiana University campus are

Perhaps you saw only quarries far from Chicago, which yielded a
different color of stone. The two north-south blocks just east of
Wells St. were lined with (yellow) Indiana limestone townhouses.
(in my time, of course. By now they may have been replaced by
something developers could make more money off of.) Not any
more. I think I found one at Google Street View of 1404 N. LaSalle,
if you want to see one maybe. But just about everything in those
two blocks is clearly less than 25 years old.

I'll thank you NOT to try to contradict everything I say.

Post by Tony Cooper
limestone. I have spent quite a few weekend hours at the limestone
quarries near Bloomington, Indiana. That's where we took dates and
picnicked and swam. Many public buildings and private homes in
Indianapolis were made of limestone.
Limestone can be pale yellow if it was quarried from an area with a
high iron or magnanese presence, but gray is the predominate color.

The architecture tours would routinely name the quarry/ies that
Chicago's limestone came from, but I don't remember any names.

Aha -- swimming into my ken comes "Lamont limestone." Which
apparently names a kind, not a specific place.

Tony Cooper

2021-09-19 22:19:46 UTC

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:24:56 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 06:53:54 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Indiana limestone, to my eye, is gray. And, my eye has seen a lot of
limestone. The older buildings on the Indiana University campus are

Perhaps you saw only quarries far from Chicago, which yielded a
different color of stone.

Limestone is not, and has not ever been, quarried north of
Indianapolis in Indiana. Bloomington and Bedford - about 60 and75
miles south of Indianapolis - are in the heart of the limestone quarry
area. All Indiana limestone is in the Salem Formation on which both
of those cities are located.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
The two north-south blocks just east of
Wells St. were lined with (yellow) Indiana limestone townhouses.
(in my time, of course. By now they may have been replaced by
something developers could make more money off of.) Not any
more. I think I found one at Google Street View of 1404 N. LaSalle,
if you want to see one maybe. But just about everything in those
two blocks is clearly less than 25 years old.
I'll thank you NOT to try to contradict everything I say.

I don't think it works that way here. In fact, I'm sure it doesn't.

I acknowledged that you could see yellow limestone, but most limestone
is from very light gray - almost white - to medium gray.

Post by Tony Cooper
Limestone can be pale yellow if it was quarried from an area with a
high iron or magnanese presence, but gray is the predominate color.

The architecture tours would routinely name the quarry/ies that
Chicago's limestone came from, but I don't remember any names.
Aha -- swimming into my ken comes "Lamont limestone." Which
apparently names a kind, not a specific place.

Your ken has a limited span. Lemont limestone is limestone from
around a place: Lemont, Illinois. Lemont limestone is yellow
dolomite.

Those homes you saw may have been yellow limestone, but more likely to
have been made from Lemont limestone from southwest Cook County, not
Indiana limestone. Lemont limestone was used in Chicago from the
late 1830s when the Illinois and Michigan canal was built and the
limestone was removed during the construction.

The Chicago Water Tower is constructed of Lemont limestone. I would
say that it is more gray than yellowish, but it had been in place for
almost a 100 years when I first saw it, so I don't know how almost a
century of exposure to the elements in Chicago have affected the
color.

https://www.architecture.org/learn/resources/buildings-of-chicago/building/chicago-water-tower/

Tribune Tower - which I once walked into and out of every weekday -
was constructed of Indiana limestone, and it appears to be the same
color as the Chicago Water Tower.

Loading Image...

Of course, Trib Tower had been built a mere 30-some years before I
first saw it.

--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

Tony Cooper

2021-09-20 03:53:48 UTC

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 18:19:46 -0400, Tony Cooper

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 12:24:56 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Tony Cooper
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 06:53:54 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Indiana limestone, to my eye, is gray. And, my eye has seen a lot of
limestone. The older buildings on the Indiana University campus are

Perhaps you saw only quarries far from Chicago, which yielded a
different color of stone.

I don't think it works that way here. In fact, I'm sure it doesn't.

I acknowledged that you could see yellow limestone, but most limestone
is from very light gray - almost white - to medium gray.

Post by Tony Cooper
Limestone can be pale yellow if it was quarried from an area with a
high iron or magnanese presence, but gray is the predominate color.

The architecture tours would routinely name the quarry/ies that
Chicago's limestone came from, but I don't remember any names.
Aha -- swimming into my ken comes "Lamont limestone." Which
apparently names a kind, not a specific place.

Your ken has a limited span. Lemont limestone is limestone from
around a place: Lemont, Illinois. Lemont limestone is yellow
dolomite.
Those homes you saw may have been yellow limestone, but more likely to
have been made from Lemont limestone from southwest Cook County, not
Indiana limestone. Lemont limestone was used in Chicago from the
late 1830s when the Illinois and Michigan canal was built and the
limestone was removed during the construction.
The Chicago Water Tower is constructed of Lemont limestone. I would
say that it is more gray than yellowish, but it had been in place for
almost a 100 years when I first saw it, so I don't know how almost a
century of exposure to the elements in Chicago have affected the
color.
https://www.architecture.org/learn/resources/buildings-of-chicago/building/chicago-water-tower/

Lemont limestone is also known as Joliet-Lemont limestone:
https://www.esconi.org/esconi_earth_science_club/2013/04/what-do-you-know-about-joliet-lemont-limestone-.html\
Joliet and Lemont are about 12 miles apart, so both are on the same
formation.

Post by Tony Cooper
Tribune Tower - which I once walked into and out of every weekday -
was constructed of Indiana limestone, and it appears to be the same
color as the Chicago Water Tower.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a3/Tribune_Tower_Brick_and_Rock_Collection%2C_Chicago%2C_Illinois_%2811004276696%29.jpg/800px-Tribune_Tower_Brick_and_Rock_Collection%2C_Chicago%2C_Illinois_%2811004276696%29.jpg
Of course, Trib Tower had been built a mere 30-some years before I
first saw it.

--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

CDB

2021-09-20 14:27:29 UTC

[limestone diversity]

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Aha -- swimming into my ken comes "Lamont limestone." Which
apparently names a kind, not a specific place.

Your ken has a limited span.

Maybe Ken's tail has dropped off. Parasites in hs waterbowl? He used
to be a swinging cat.

Post by Tony Cooper
Lemont limestone is limestone from around a place: Lemont,
Illinois. Lemont limestone is yellow dolomite.

[Chicago limestone]

Peter T. Daniels

2021-09-20 15:40:49 UTC

Post by CDB
[limestone diversity]

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Aha -- swimming into my ken comes "Lamont limestone." Which
apparently names a kind, not a specific place.

Your ken has a limited span.

Maybe Ken's tail has dropped off. Parasites in hs waterbowl? He used
to be a swinging cat.

Post by Tony Cooper
Lemont limestone is limestone from around a place: Lemont,
Illinois. Lemont limestone is yellow dolomite.

[Chicago limestone]

(TC didn't google < lamont limestone > and see the worldwide
assortment of hits on the front page of Image results.)

Tony Cooper

2021-09-20 18:00:37 UTC

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 08:40:49 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by CDB
[limestone diversity]

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Aha -- swimming into my ken comes "Lamont limestone." Which
apparently names a kind, not a specific place.

Your ken has a limited span.

Maybe Ken's tail has dropped off. Parasites in hs waterbowl? He used
to be a swinging cat.

Post by Tony Cooper
Lemont limestone is limestone from around a place: Lemont,
Illinois. Lemont limestone is yellow dolomite.

[Chicago limestone]

(TC didn't google < lamont limestone > and see the worldwide
assortment of hits on the front page of Image results.)

Actually, spelling it "Lemont ", I did.

What was displayed were buildings, some of which were yellowish
limestone. I had already agreed that some limestone can be described
as "pale yellow", but most limestone - particularly Indiana limestone
- is in the gray range.

What I *didn't* do is state that: "Indiana limestone, which is a pale
yellow" as you did or confuse Indiana limestone and Illinois
limestone.

I suspect that when you made the comment that you were unaware that
not all limestone is quarried in Indiana, and that you were under the
impression that all the Chicago limestone buildings were built with
Indiana limestone.

--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

Peter T. Daniels

2021-09-20 21:14:23 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 08:40:49 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by CDB
[limestone diversity]

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Aha -- swimming into my ken comes "Lamont limestone." Which
apparently names a kind, not a specific place.

Your ken has a limited span.

Maybe Ken's tail has dropped off. Parasites in hs waterbowl? He used
to be a swinging cat.

Post by Tony Cooper
Lemont limestone is limestone from around a place: Lemont,
Illinois. Lemont limestone is yellow dolomite.

[Chicago limestone]

(TC didn't google < lamont limestone > and see the worldwide
assortment of hits on the front page of Image results.)

Actually, spelling it "Lemont ", I did.

Meaning that your results are irrelevant to my results.

You may have intimate knowledge of the surroundings of Joliet.
Chicagoans know it only as the site of a notorious penitentiary,
and as a neighbor of Romeoville. (Yes, not a coincidence.)

Post by Tony Cooper
What was displayed were buildings, some of which were yellowish
limestone. I had already agreed that some limestone can be described
as "pale yellow", but most limestone - particularly Indiana limestone
- is in the gray range.
What I *didn't* do is state that: "Indiana limestone, which is a pale
yellow" as you did or confuse Indiana limestone and Illinois
limestone.

I again request that you stop trying to "show me up" with your every
posting, especialluy on matters concerning which you are profoundly
ignorant -- such as Chicago architecture.

The -- well-educated -- docents of the Chicago Architecture Foundation,
who lead neighborhood tours, routinely point out "Indiana limestone" as
a building material, and said "Indiana limestone" is routinely a pale yellow.

Post by Tony Cooper
I suspect that when you made the comment that you were unaware that
not all limestone is quarried in Indiana, and that you were under the
impression that all the Chicago limestone buildings were built with
Indiana limestone.

My God. Stop imputing your ignorance to everyone else. Limestone
comes from all over the world. (Such as Oxfordshire.) The limestone
that was routinely used in Chicago was called "Indiana limestone,"
and a more specific name was put to some of it.

Tony Cooper

2021-09-20 23:39:35 UTC

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 08:40:49 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by CDB
[limestone diversity]

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Aha -- swimming into my ken comes "Lamont limestone." Which
apparently names a kind, not a specific place.

Your ken has a limited span.

Maybe Ken's tail has dropped off. Parasites in hs waterbowl? He used
to be a swinging cat.

Post by Tony Cooper
Lemont limestone is limestone from around a place: Lemont,
Illinois. Lemont limestone is yellow dolomite.

[Chicago limestone]

(TC didn't google < lamont limestone > and see the worldwide
assortment of hits on the front page of Image results.)

Actually, spelling it "Lemont ", I did.

Meaning that your results are irrelevant to my results.

Now you are lying. You stated your results showed limestone
buildings. No buildings are shown at the "lamont limestone" image
page. Your search was re-directed to the same page I went to.

Google does that when you spell things incorrectly and keywords take
over and "Including results for LEMONT LIMESTONE" jumps in.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
You may have intimate knowledge of the surroundings of Joliet.
Chicagoans know it only as the site of a notorious penitentiary,
and as a neighbor of Romeoville. (Yes, not a coincidence.)

I again request that you stop trying to "show me up" with your every
posting, especialluy on matters concerning which you are profoundly
ignorant -- such as Chicago architecture.

This is not about "Chicago architecture". It's about a building
material used in Chicago area - limestone - and a building material
that I have had more years than you observing.

It's about a flat-out incorrect catagorical statement that Indiana
limestone is "pale yellow". That statement precludes other colors,
when - in fact - Indiana limestone colors range from buff to gray with
the most-seen color being in the gray range.

https://www.bybeestone.com/limestone/colors-finishes/

That most Indiana limestone buildings are in the gray range is an
observable fact. I can go to downtown Orlando and look at the old
courthouse (now the Orange County Regional History Center) which is
Indiana limestone.

This could have been simple. I would have accepted "pale yellow" as a
description of "buff", if you had said "some Indiana limestone is pale
yellow" but you had to be catagorical about it.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
The -- well-educated -- docents of the Chicago Architecture Foundation,
who lead neighborhood tours, routinely point out "Indiana limestone" as
a building material, and said "Indiana limestone" is routinely a pale yellow.

Now I think you are outright lying. You're recounting a recollection
of what was said several years ago and imputing a false memory of what
was said. No informed person would say that Indiana limestone is
*routinely* a pale yellow, or even "routinely a buff color".

You have ignored that Joliet-Lemont limestone was closer to your "pale
yellow" description and that some Chicago buildings could have used
that limestone and that's where the docent's comments could have
applied without the "Indiana" part.

My God. Stop imputing your ignorance to everyone else.

Easy to impute ignorance to you when you didn't even know the source
of pale yellow limestone or why some limestone is pale yellow instead
of in the gray range as is most limestone.

Post by Peter T. Daniels
comes from all over the world. (Such as Oxfordshire.) The limestone
that was routinely used in Chicago was called "Indiana limestone,"
and a more specific name was put to some of it.

Is this a reference to "Lamont" [sic]? What you claimed was a type,
not a place? Don't be silly.

If a term was applied, it would have been "Bedford", not "Lamont"
[sic].

--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

Peter T. Daniels

2021-09-21 15:45:13 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 14:14:23 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 08:40:49 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

Post by CDB
[limestone diversity]

Post by Peter T. Daniels
Aha -- swimming into my ken comes "Lamont limestone." Which
apparently names a kind, not a specific place.

Your ken has a limited span.

Maybe Ken's tail has dropped off. Parasites in hs waterbowl? He used
to be a swinging cat.

Post by Tony Cooper
Lemont limestone is limestone from around a place: Lemont,
Illinois. Lemont limestone is yellow dolomite.

[Chicago limestone]

(TC didn't google < lamont limestone > and see the worldwide
assortment of hits on the front page of Image results.)

Actually, spelling it "Lemont ", I did.

Meaning that your results are irrelevant to my results.

Now you are lying. You stated your results showed limestone
buildings. No buildings are shown at the "lamont limestone" image
page. Your search was re-directed to the same page I went to.
Google does that when you spell things incorrectly and keywords take
over and "Including results for LEMONT LIMESTONE" jumps in.

And I only looked at the hits with the spelling < lamont >.

The amount of bad faith you display mushrooms daily.

Janet

2021-09-19 18:04:47 UTC

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term ?red brick university? go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ?red brick? label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

Interesting analysis. Not certain that it is applicable.

And really, how useful is sandstone as a building material?

Oxford University buildings are still holding up 500+ years later.

Much of Glasgow was built in sandstone, from medieval times on.

Janet.

Chicago

Post by Peter T. Daniels
has been afraid of wood construction since 1871, and at first everything
was made of Indiana limestone, which is a pale yellow and seems to
have withstood weathering for a century and a half. (The 20th century
brought mostly brick construction -- including many hectares of tenements
built for the 1893 World's Fair to house tourists that since then have housed
renters.)
Looking for a contrast with "red brick," wouldn't "granite" have been more
impressive?

Mack A. Damia

2021-09-19 20:33:28 UTC

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term ?red brick university? go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ?red brick? label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

Interesting analysis. Not certain that it is applicable.

And really, how useful is sandstone as a building material?

Oxford University buildings are still holding up 500+ years later.
Much of Glasgow was built in sandstone, from medieval times on.

Okay, but what is its significance in the verbal exchange of the
screenplay? Is it Oxford/Cambridge verses technical/vocational
colleges?

Mack A. Damia

2021-09-19 22:07:13 UTC

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term ?red brick university? go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ?red brick? label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

Interesting analysis. Not certain that it is applicable.

And really, how useful is sandstone as a building material?

Oxford University buildings are still holding up 500+ years later.
Much of Glasgow was built in sandstone, from medieval times on.

Okay, but what is its significance in the verbal exchange of the
screenplay? Is it Oxford/Cambridge verses technical/vocational
colleges?

No. Redbricks are universities. Oxford and Cambridge are centuries-
old with long traditions; the redbricks are more recent.

Old money versus the nouveau riche?

Sam Plusnet

2021-09-20 20:22:04 UTC

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term ?red brick university? go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ?red brick? label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

Interesting analysis. Not certain that it is applicable.

And really, how useful is sandstone as a building material?

Oxford University buildings are still holding up 500+ years later.
Much of Glasgow was built in sandstone, from medieval times on.

Okay, but what is its significance in the verbal exchange of the
screenplay? Is it Oxford/Cambridge verses technical/vocational
colleges?

No. Redbricks are universities. Oxford and Cambridge are centuries-
old with long traditions; the redbricks are more recent.

Old money versus the nouveau riche?

?? Where does money come into this?
It's an issue of perceived social status, not money in old or new notes.

Snidely

2021-09-20 21:21:40 UTC

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think
Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term ?red brick university? go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ?red brick? label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

Interesting analysis. Not certain that it is applicable.

And really, how useful is sandstone as a building material?

Oxford University buildings are still holding up 500+ years later.
Much of Glasgow was built in sandstone, from medieval times on.

Okay, but what is its significance in the verbal exchange of the
screenplay? Is it Oxford/Cambridge verses technical/vocational
colleges?

No. Redbricks are universities. Oxford and Cambridge are centuries-
old with long traditions; the redbricks are more recent.

Old money versus the nouveau riche?

?? Where does money come into this?
It's an issue of perceived social status, not money in old or new notes.

And social status is often times a function of how much money AND of
whether you're a Johnny Upstart. "Old Money vs New" is most often a
discussion of social status, IME. This was true 200 years ago in
Britain when Old Money was landed gentry and New was
merchants-and-manufacturers, and is true in the US where the
Vanderbilts and Rockefellers are compared to the Musks and Bezoses.

/dps

--
Who, me? And what lacuna?

Sam Plusnet

2021-09-21 20:15:41 UTC

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think
Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term ?red brick university? go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained
independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ?red brick? label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

Interesting analysis. Not certain that it is applicable.

And really, how useful is sandstone as a building material?

Oxford University buildings are still holding up 500+ years later.
Much of Glasgow was built in sandstone, from medieval times on.

Okay, but what is its significance in the verbal exchange of the
screenplay? Is it Oxford/Cambridge verses technical/vocational
colleges?

No. Redbricks are universities. Oxford and Cambridge are centuries-
old with long traditions; the redbricks are more recent.

Old money versus the nouveau riche?

?? Where does money come into this?
It's an issue of perceived social status, not money in old or new notes.

And social status is often times a function of how much money AND of
whether you're a Johnny Upstart. "Old Money vs New" is most often a
discussion of social status, IME. This was true 200 years ago in
Britain when Old Money was landed gentry and New was
merchants-and-manufacturers, and is true in the US where the Vanderbilts
and Rockefellers are compared to the Musks and Bezoses.

Accurate but not particularly relevant in this context.
Here the distinction is being drawn between having been educated at an
older university or a much newer institution.
Students could attend either type and a student grant would have covered
the costs in either case (in the time period under discussion). You
didn't have to come from 'Old Money' or indeed any money at all to gain
a place.

Paul Wolff

2021-09-21 20:57:16 UTC

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Interesting analysis. Not certain that it is applicable.

And really, how useful is sandstone as a building material?

Oxford University buildings are still holding up 500+ years later.
Much of Glasgow was built in sandstone, from medieval times on.

Okay, but what is its significance in the verbal exchange of the
screenplay? Is it Oxford/Cambridge verses technical/vocational
colleges?

No. Redbricks are universities. Oxford and Cambridge are centuries-
old with long traditions; the redbricks are more recent.

Old money versus the nouveau riche?

?? Where does money come into this?
It's an issue of perceived social status, not money in old or new notes.

Accurate but not particularly relevant in this context.
Here the distinction is being drawn between having been educated at an
older university or a much newer institution.
Students could attend either type and a student grant would have
covered the costs in either case (in the time period under discussion).
You didn't have to come from 'Old Money' or indeed any money at all to
gain a place.

Mack A. Damia associated "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone" with "Class
consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy"." I think M.A.D. was
wrong. The material difference at that time, as perceived in 'the
Circus', wouldn't have been due to social class, but rather to ability.
The filtration processes governing university admissions in Britain at
that time were focussed on the three A's - academic ability and aptitude
- and (in my honest opinion) the status conferred by an Oxford or
Cambridge degree derived from the fact that you'd managed to get
accepted into the university at all, far above that you had stuck it out
and graduated three or four years later.

Subject to my re-reading the book and seeing the actual context: the
quoted question looks like a veiled enquiry into the intellectual weight
or authority to be given to 'him'. That is, to the him who is 'he'.

--
Paul

Mack A. Damia

2021-09-21 22:38:51 UTC

On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:57:16 +0100, Paul Wolff

Post by Paul Wolff

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Interesting analysis. Not certain that it is applicable.

And really, how useful is sandstone as a building material?

Oxford University buildings are still holding up 500+ years later.
Much of Glasgow was built in sandstone, from medieval times on.

Okay, but what is its significance in the verbal exchange of the
screenplay? Is it Oxford/Cambridge verses technical/vocational
colleges?

No. Redbricks are universities. Oxford and Cambridge are centuries-
old with long traditions; the redbricks are more recent.

Old money versus the nouveau riche?

?? Where does money come into this?
It's an issue of perceived social status, not money in old or new notes.

Accurate but not particularly relevant in this context.
Here the distinction is being drawn between having been educated at an
older university or a much newer institution.
Students could attend either type and a student grant would have
covered the costs in either case (in the time period under discussion).
You didn't have to come from 'Old Money' or indeed any money at all to
gain a place.

Mack A. Damia associated "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone" with "Class
consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy"." I think M.A.D. was
wrong. The material difference at that time, as perceived in 'the
Circus', wouldn't have been due to social class, but rather to ability.
The filtration processes governing university admissions in Britain at
that time were focussed on the three A's - academic ability and aptitude
- and (in my honest opinion) the status conferred by an Oxford or
Cambridge degree derived from the fact that you'd managed to get
accepted into the university at all, far above that you had stuck it out
and graduated three or four years later.
Subject to my re-reading the book and seeing the actual context: the
quoted question looks like a veiled enquiry into the intellectual weight
or authority to be given to 'him'. That is, to the him who is 'he'.

My concern is that we are doing to much assuming here. We don't know
the meaning of the verbal exchange, specifically, red brick and
sandstone - at least I don't think we do.

Again:

Found this from the 1979 screenplay script:

You featherhead, Martindale! You pompous,
bogus, gossiping old featherhead!

Roy Bland is not redbrick.
He was at St Antony's College, Oxford.

Oh, don't be silly, dear.
Of course St Antony is redbrick.

Makes no difference there's a bit
of sandstone in the same street.
*****************************************

Contrary to the last exchange, there IS a difference, but what is it?
It's "class" as an Oxford/Cambridge education is a hallmark of
distinction and is considered "highbrow".

Why else for the insistence that St. Antony's College is redbrick?

What could this mean?

".......there's a bit of sandstone in the same street."

Jerry Friedman

2021-09-22 04:14:03 UTC

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:57:16 +0100, Paul Wolff

...

Post by Paul Wolff
Mack A. Damia associated "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone" with "Class
consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy"." I think M.A.D. was
wrong. The material difference at that time, as perceived in 'the
Circus', wouldn't have been due to social class, but rather to ability.
The filtration processes governing university admissions in Britain at
that time were focussed on the three A's - academic ability and aptitude
- and (in my honest opinion) the status conferred by an Oxford or
Cambridge degree derived from the fact that you'd managed to get
accepted into the university at all, far above that you had stuck it out
and graduated three or four years later.
Subject to my re-reading the book and seeing the actual context: the
quoted question looks like a veiled enquiry into the intellectual weight
or authority to be given to 'him'. That is, to the him who is 'he'.

My concern is that we are doing to much assuming here. We don't know
the meaning of the verbal exchange, specifically, red brick and
sandstone - at least I don't think we do.
You featherhead, Martindale! You pompous,
bogus, gossiping old featherhead!
Roy Bland is not redbrick.
He was at St Antony's College, Oxford.
Oh, don't be silly, dear.
Of course St Antony is redbrick.
Makes no difference there's a bit
of sandstone in the same street.
*****************************************

Let me just rewrite that with more context and the speakers' names.
Martindale of the Foreign Office wants to know who's pulling the strings
at "the Circus" (British intelligence).

Martindale: All right, then, it's Roy Bland, the shop-soiled white hope.
The first redbrick don to make the Circus.

If it's neither of them, and Control is really dead, then there's only one
possibility left. It's someone who's pretending to be in retirement.
YOU, George. Admit it!

Smiley: You featherhead, Martindale! You pompous, bogus, gossiping
old featherhead! Roy Bland is not redbrick. He was at St Antony's
College, Oxford.

Martindale: Oh, don't be silly, dear. Of course St Antony is redbrick.
Makes no difference there's a bit of sandstone in the same street.

Post by Mack A. Damia
Contrary to the last exchange, there IS a difference, but what is it?
It's "class" as an Oxford/Cambridge education is a hallmark of
distinction and is considered "highbrow".
Why else for the insistence that St. Antony's College is redbrick?

Paul's explanation above seems fine. Oxford and Cambridge had
more exclusive admissions than redbrick universities at the time.

Post by Mack A. Damia
What could this mean?
".......there's a bit of sandstone in the same street."

It means a) that like some other people, LeCarré mistook the
grainy, yellowish oolitic limestone of Oxford buildings (as Paul
described it) for sandstone, and b) Martindale says that St.
Antony's College is like a redbrick university even though it's
part of Oxford University, that is, the "sandstone" in the same
street makes no difference.

By the way, St. Antony (founded 1950) specializes in international
relations, and Wikipedia says that since its founding it's been
connected with British intelligence.

--
Jerry Friedman

Jerry Friedman

2021-09-22 13:04:16 UTC

On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 10:14:06 PM UTC-6, Jerry Friedman wrote:
...

Post by Mack A. Damia
What could this mean?
".......there's a bit of sandstone in the same street."

It means a) that like some other people, LeCarré mistook the
grainy, yellowish oolitic limestone of Oxford buildings (as Paul
described it) for sandstone,

...

Or conceivably that Martindale made the mistake, and Smiley
did too, or at least didn't know it was a mistake.

--
Jerry Friedman

Mack A. Damia

2021-09-22 15:44:00 UTC

On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:14:03 -0700 (PDT), Jerry Friedman

Post by Mack A. Damia
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 21:57:16 +0100, Paul Wolff

...

Let me just rewrite that with more context and the speakers' names.
Martindale of the Foreign Office wants to know who's pulling the strings
at "the Circus" (British intelligence).
Martindale: All right, then, it's Roy Bland, the shop-soiled white hope.
The first redbrick don to make the Circus.
If it's neither of them, and Control is really dead, then there's only one
possibility left. It's someone who's pretending to be in retirement.
YOU, George. Admit it!
Smiley: You featherhead, Martindale! You pompous, bogus, gossiping
old featherhead! Roy Bland is not redbrick. He was at St Antony's
College, Oxford.
Martindale: Oh, don't be silly, dear. Of course St Antony is redbrick.
Makes no difference there's a bit of sandstone in the same street.

Paul's explanation above seems fine. Oxford and Cambridge had
more exclusive admissions than redbrick universities at the time.

Then my original assumption is correct. It is based on class
distinction.

Post by Mack A. Damia
What could this mean?
".......there's a bit of sandstone in the same street."

Sounds okay, but I am not totally convinced. Le Carré was a master of
detail, and it seems out of place to suggest that he got it wrong.

Post by Jerry Friedman
By the way, St. Antony (founded 1950) specializes in international
relations, and Wikipedia says that since its founding it's been
connected with British intelligence.

Cambridge Five passed secrets into the 1950s. Blunt, the Fourth Man,
was not exposed to the public until 1979.

Janet

2021-09-22 16:47:42 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
Oxford and Cambridge had

Post by Jerry Friedman
more exclusive admissions than redbrick universities at the time.

Then my original assumption is correct. It is based on class
distinction.

The distinction was academic, not financial; Oxbridge still set their
own entrance exams. In 1973, the timeframe of TTSS, over 40 percent of
Oxbridge students came from state schools.

Janet.

Mack A. Damia

2021-09-22 18:10:51 UTC

Post by Jerry Friedman
Oxford and Cambridge had

Post by Jerry Friedman
more exclusive admissions than redbrick universities at the time.

Then my original assumption is correct. It is based on class
distinction.

The distinction was academic, not financial; Oxbridge still set their
own entrance exams. In 1973, the timeframe of TTSS, over 40 percent of
Oxbridge students came from state schools.

There are other considerations in addition to the "financial" when
considering "class". These microcosms ("academic") reflect the larger
society. Names, titles, nobility, schools attended, peer group,
clubs, memberships.....more.

Snidely

2021-09-21 21:11:39 UTC

(Quote) "Is he a Red Brick or a Sandstone"
Class consciousness from "Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy".

Possibly a question as to which type of university did he go to
Red brick tend to be the modern ones (think city ones) whilst sandstone
tend to be older, more classical architecture ones (think
Oxford/Cambridge).
From :-
https://www.theuniguide.co.uk
The origins of the term ?red brick university? go back to the Victorian
era, when a number of specialist institutions gained independence and
became fully fledged universities in their own right.
These universities got their ?red brick? label from the style of
brickwork common at the time.
Or it could just be what type of house does he live in.
An olde wolde country house :- Sandstone.
or a modern inner city suburban house :- Red Brick

Interesting analysis. Not certain that it is applicable.

And really, how useful is sandstone as a building material?

Oxford University buildings are still holding up 500+ years later.
Much of Glasgow was built in sandstone, from medieval times on.

Okay, but what is its significance in the verbal exchange of the
screenplay? Is it Oxford/Cambridge verses technical/vocational
colleges?

No. Redbricks are universities. Oxford and Cambridge are centuries-
old with long traditions; the redbricks are more recent.

Old money versus the nouveau riche?

?? Where does money come into this?
It's an issue of perceived social status, not money in old or new notes.

And social status is often times a function of how much money AND of
whether you're a Johnny Upstart. "Old Money vs New" is most often a
discussion of social status, IME. This was true 200 years ago in Britain
when Old Money was landed gentry and New was merchants-and-manufacturers,
and is true in the US where the Vanderbilts and Rockefellers are compared
to the Musks and Bezoses.

Accurate but not particularly relevant in this context.
Here the distinction is being drawn between having been educated at an older
university or a much newer institution.
Students could attend either type and a student grant would have covered the
costs in either case (in the time period under discussion). You didn't have
to come from 'Old Money' or indeed any money at all to gain a place.

Okay, that's useful information.

-d

--
Trust, but verify.

Peter Moylan

2021-09-22 00:18:52 UTC

Post by Sam Plusnet
Here the distinction is being drawn between having been educated at
an older university or a much newer institution. Students could
attend either type and a student grant would have covered the costs
in either case (in the time period under discussion). You didn't
have to come from 'Old Money' or indeed any money at all to gain a
place.

My first degree is from one of the "best" Australian universities
(Melbourne), but after graduation I realised that it was all smoke and
mirrors. At the time Melbourne University was going through a bad slump.
The Medical Faculty was taking so much of the budget that other
disciplines were badly understaffed. In electrical engineering the best
people had left to move to a newer university. Realistically, it was a
low-quality institution.

But the general public doesn't know about such details. They just see
the ivy and the old buildings and so on.

One area in which Melbourne University was superior was the Old Boy
network. I threw that away by moving to another city. Some of my fellow
engineering graduates used it to move into high-paying jobs in finance.

--
Peter Moylan Newcastle, NSW http://www.pmoylan.org

Ken Blake

2021-09-22 17:30:06 UTC

Post by Peter Moylan
One area in which Melbourne University was superior was the Old Boy
network. I threw that away by moving to another city. Some of my fellow
engineering graduates used it to move into high-paying jobs in finance.

Is finance near Melbourne?

--
Ken

Lanarcam

2021-09-19 20:22:51 UTC

I'm currently in Cornwall where there is one heck of a lot of granite &
many older houses are built from it. It isn't an ideal building
material as it can't really be finely shaped. It does last very well in
a harsh climate.

Have you heard about the radon gaz that develops in houses built in
granite? It causes lung cancer.

Peter Duncanson [BrE]

2021-09-20 12:01:44 UTC

Have you heard about the radon gaz that develops in houses built in
granite? It causes lung cancer.

He might have done. It is mentioned publicly from time to time.
For instance:
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/radon-gas-silent-killer-countryside-2047987.html

--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)

Sam Plusnet

2021-09-20 20:26:51 UTC

Have you heard about the radon gaz that develops in houses built in
granite? It causes lung cancer.

He might have done. It is mentioned publicly from time to time.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/radon-gas-silent-killer-countryside-2047987.html

It's been a know issue for quite a few decades. Cornish houses which
are/might be susceptible to this usually have a fan fitted in the cellar
or under the floorboards which diverts airflow to the outside.

J. J. Lodder

2021-09-20 21:10:43 UTC

Have you heard about the radon gaz that develops in houses built in
granite? It causes lung cancer.

He might have done. It is mentioned publicly from time to time.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/radon-

gas-silent-killer-countryside-2047987.html

Post by Sam Plusnet
It's been a know issue for quite a few decades. Cornish houses which
are/might be susceptible to this usually have a fan fitted in the cellar
or under the floorboards which diverts airflow to the outside.

For the one day in the year that it is not storming?

Jan

Tak To

2021-09-21 21:00:49 UTC

Have you heard about the radon gaz that develops in houses built in
granite? It causes lung cancer.

He might have done. It is mentioned publicly from time to time.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/radon-gas-silent-killer-countryside-2047987.html

This article does not actually say that. It says radon is
more abundant in areas of the country that are rich in
granite.

--
Tak
----------------------------------------------------------------+-----
Tak To ***@alum.mit.eduxx
--------------------------------------------------------------------^^
[taode takto ~{LU5B~}] NB: trim the xx to get my real email addr

Tony Cooper

2021-09-21 21:02:56 UTC

Have you heard about the radon gaz that develops in houses built in
granite? It causes lung cancer.

He might have done. It is mentioned publicly from time to time.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/radon-gas-silent-killer-countryside-2047987.html

This article does not actually say that. It says radon is
more abundant in areas of the country that are rich in
granite.

I take it radon is a problem in Vermont.

--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

Tony Cooper

2021-09-21 21:05:13 UTC

On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 17:02:56 -0400, Tony Cooper

Have you heard about the radon gaz that develops in houses built in
granite? It causes lung cancer.

He might have done. It is mentioned publicly from time to time.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/radon-gas-silent-killer-countryside-2047987.html

This article does not actually say that. It says radon is
more abundant in areas of the country that are rich in
granite.

I take it radon is a problem in Vermont.

Arrgh. New Hampshire, not Vermont.

Why do self-corrections come to mind only *after* pushing "Send"?

--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

J. J. Lodder

2021-09-22 09:35:02 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 17:02:56 -0400, Tony Cooper

Have you heard about the radon gaz that develops in houses built in
granite? It causes lung cancer.

He might have done. It is mentioned publicly from time to time.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/rado

n-gas-silent-killer-countryside-2047987.html

Post by Tak To
This article does not actually say that. It says radon is
more abundant in areas of the country that are rich in
granite.

I take it radon is a problem in Vermont.

Arrgh. New Hampshire, not Vermont.
Why do self-corrections come to mind only *after* pushing "Send"?

It does help (but not always enough) if you get an off-line newsclient,

Jan

Tak To

2021-09-22 17:25:11 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 17:02:56 -0400, Tony Cooper

Have you heard about the radon gaz that develops in houses built in
granite? It causes lung cancer.

He might have done. It is mentioned publicly from time to time.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/radon-gas-silent-killer-countryside-2047987.html

This article does not actually say that. It says radon is
more abundant in areas of the country that are rich in
granite.

I take it radon is a problem in Vermont.

Arrgh. New Hampshire, not Vermont.

Also:
] Texas, Massachusetts, Indiana, Wisconsin, and Georgia are
] the top producers of granite in the U.S. These granite
] quarries account for approximately 64 percent of the
] countries[1] production.

https://marble.com/articles/about-marble-and-granite-quarries-in-america-#

[1] ObAUE

Tony Cooper

2021-09-22 18:38:26 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 17:02:56 -0400, Tony Cooper

Have you heard about the radon gaz that develops in houses built in
granite? It causes lung cancer.

He might have done. It is mentioned publicly from time to time.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/radon-gas-silent-killer-countryside-2047987.html

This article does not actually say that. It says radon is
more abundant in areas of the country that are rich in
granite.

I take it radon is a problem in Vermont.

Arrgh. New Hampshire, not Vermont.

] Texas, Massachusetts, Indiana, Wisconsin, and Georgia are
] the top producers of granite in the U.S. These granite
] quarries account for approximately 64 percent of the
] countries[1] production.
https://marble.com/articles/about-marble-and-granite-quarries-in-america-#
[1] ObAUE

My (self-corrected) comment was based on the New Hampshire state
nickname: The Granite State.

I don't know why I know that. I have never met anyone (that I know
of) who is from New Hampshire, never been to New Hampshire, and have
no connection with New Hampshire.

Quizzed, I couldn't name anyone famous from New Hampshire, but -
checking Google - there are several people who would fit as "famous"
who are from New Hampshire.

I know most of the state capitals, but New Hampshire's (Concord) comes
to mind only if I struggle to think about it.

I also know the New Hampshire state motto: Live Free or Die. It's on
the New Hampshire license plates, and I do see a New Hampshire license
plate once in a while in the winter.

Florida's license plates display our state nickname: (The) Sunshine
State. Given what our Governor's policies are regarding personal
safety from COVID, it should be "Live Free and Die".

--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

Sam Plusnet

2021-09-22 19:28:49 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
Quizzed, I couldn't name anyone famous from New Hampshire, but -
checking Google - there are several people who would fit as "famous"
who are from New Hampshire.

Is there a state which has produced _no_ famous people[1]?

[1] Define that how you will.

Any reference to Belgium would be entirely gratuitous.

charles

2021-09-22 20:03:58 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
Quizzed, I couldn't name anyone famous from New Hampshire, but -
checking Google - there are several people who would fit as "famous"
who are from New Hampshire.

Is there a state which has produced _no_ famous people[1]?
[1] Define that how you will.
Any reference to Belgium would be entirely gratuitous.

Hercule Poirot

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Peter T. Daniels

2021-09-22 20:51:44 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
My (self-corrected) comment was based on the New Hampshire state
nickname: The Granite State.
I don't know why I know that. I have never met anyone (that I know
of) who is from New Hampshire, never been to New Hampshire, and have
no connection with New Hampshire.
Quizzed, I couldn't name anyone famous from New Hampshire, but -
checking Google - there are several people who would fit as "famous"
who are from New Hampshire.

One hopes you've heard of Daniel Webster, who may or may not have
been born there but who famously said of Dartmouth, "It's a small school,
but there are those who love it." By far the smallest of the Ivies.

Post by Tony Cooper
I know most of the state capitals, but New Hampshire's (Concord) comes
to mind only if I struggle to think about it.

Odd. The "hard" ones tend to be Nebraska and Wyoming.

Tony Cooper

2021-09-22 21:23:50 UTC

On Wed, 22 Sep 2021 13:51:44 -0700 (PDT), "Peter T. Daniels"

I did not say that I have not heard about any famous people from New
Hampshire. I said that I couldn't name anyone famous from New
Hampshire. That Webster was born in Salisbury NH is not what comes to
mind when thinking about either Webster or New Hampshire.

Post by Tony Cooper
I know most of the state capitals, but New Hampshire's (Concord) comes
to mind only if I struggle to think about it.

Odd. The "hard" ones tend to be Nebraska and Wyoming.

--
Tony Cooper Orlando Florida

charles

2021-09-23 08:38:04 UTC

In the UK, Dartmouth is the Royal Naval officers' training establishment.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Mack A. Damia

2021-09-23 16:57:56 UTC

Post by Tony Cooper
On Tue, 21 Sep 2021 17:02:56 -0400, Tony Cooper

Have you heard about the radon gaz that develops in houses built in
granite? It causes lung cancer.

He might have done. It is mentioned publicly from time to time.
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/features/radon-gas-silent-killer-countryside-2047987.html

This article does not actually say that. It says radon is
more abundant in areas of the country that are rich in
granite.

I take it radon is a problem in Vermont.

Arrgh. New Hampshire, not Vermont.

My (self-corrected) comment was based on the New Hampshire state
nickname: The Granite State.

I assumed you knew that. The name came from the quarries in
the state in the past -- a fact that should surprise no one.
I thought an update on granite mining today should be of some
interest.

Post by Tony Cooper
I don't know why I know that. I have never met anyone (that I know
of) who is from New Hampshire, never been to New Hampshire, and have
no connection with New Hampshire.

Having lived in Massachusetts for many years, I know one
thing or two about New Hampshire. Among other things, I have
skied and hiked there many times.

Post by Tony Cooper
Quizzed, I couldn't name anyone famous from New Hampshire, but -
checking Google - there are several people who would fit as "famous"
who are from New Hampshire.
I know most of the state capitals, but New Hampshire's (Concord) comes
to mind only if I struggle to think about it.
I also know the New Hampshire state motto: Live Free or Die.

And true to that name, NH is the only state that has neither a
sales tax nor a personal income tax.

Post by Tony Cooper
It's on
the New Hampshire license plates, and I do see a New Hampshire license
plate once in a while in the winter.

NH comes up in the news every four years, being the second to
have primaries for the presidential elections.

Post by Tony Cooper
Florida's license plates display our state nickname: (The) Sunshine
State. Given what our Governor's policies are regarding personal
safety from COVID, it should be "Live Free and Die".

Rental cars with Florida plates used to be quite common around
here. Hardly any since the pandemic started.

How do you know that they are "rental cars"?

Reason I ask is that I saw a program a while ago about a psychopath
who targeted rental car occupants coming from the airport,
specifically, young women. He played with them and then killed them.
I believe it was in Florida.

But part of the resolution to the case was that "rental cars" would
not be identifiable.

Mack A. Damia

2021-09-23 17:11:52 UTC