Discussion:
[en-DE]"stationery"
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Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-14 20:36:28 UTC
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Once, in a group of friends - not close ones, fortunately -, someone
accidentally referred to an absent person as "big $name", and they
grudgingly admitted that I was "little $name" to them.
Was ey an Eskimo?
"$name" is some sort of computer lingo?
Yes. The $ prefix signifies the contiguous chunk of characters
("token") as a variable. It is a convention common in the Unix
milieu. In programming, using descriptive variable names is
preferred to using simple X's and Y's.
I can't believe Peter has been around Usenet this long without being
aware of this. Seriously??
He has, thankfully, never been exposed to Unix. The programming language
he learned to use, in 1976, was COMIT II, developed at MIT by Victor
Yngve to facilitate Chomsky-style natural-language parsing, who had a
falling-out with Chomsky and came to Chicago as professor of Linguistics,
Library Science, Computer Science, and whatever euphemism they were using
in those days for Psychology.
Indeed, but it's a universal symbol for "whatever yours is", as in
"$religion", etc. It escaped Unix decades ago.
Not quite universal.
Peter T. Daniels
2019-11-14 20:42:38 UTC
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Don't most transgendered people request that they be addressed by the
gender they've taken? They *do* want "he" or "she" used.
Too bad you don't watch American TV. Last week's *All Rise* featured
a defendant, a 17-year-old who wished to be addressed as "they," whose
outward signs signaled mid-teens male, albeit quite soft-spoken; there
was no hint of any gender dysphoria in their case history. I cannot say
whether the character was played by a person with male or female genitalia.
Tony Cooper
2019-11-14 22:22:22 UTC
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On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:42:38 -0800 (PST), "Peter T. Daniels"
Post by Peter T. Daniels
Don't most transgendered people request that they be addressed by the
gender they've taken? They *do* want "he" or "she" used.
Too bad you don't watch American TV. Last week's *All Rise*
I watched the first episode of "All Rise". Nothing about it induced
me to watch a second episode.

I often watch the new (commercial) network shows hoping that one will
be worth following. So far, "The Unicorn" is the only one I've seen
that has any promise.

"Shameless" is back on "Showtime", so I'm glad I subscribe to the
premium channels. Otherwise, it's PBS, Netflix, or Acorn.

We have been watching "Catherine the Great" on HBO, but it's not one
of Helen Mirren's better choices. I think the writers have let her
down on this one.

"Shameless", by the way, did have several episodes last season that
included similar topics. One* of the family is gay, and ran a center
for gays and transgenders. I don't remember the pronoun thing being
part of it, though.

*Maybe two of the family. One is unsure if she is or isn't.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-11-14 20:51:27 UTC
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On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:18:31 -0500, Quinn C
[I cut a bit and changed the header]
You really don't understand. I'm not forcing gender on you. I'm
simply writing sentences that are clear references. If I write
"There's a poster here that goes by the name "Quinn". He or she lives
in Canada." I'm not forcing gender on you. If I write "There's a
poster here that goes by the name "Quinn". They live in Canada." I am
writing sentences that are not clear to most readers.
I'm not making it your problem. It was yours all along, you - people
who think like you - created it and made it mine. No more.
The more you (Tony Cooper) argue, the more I side with Quinn; gender
should have no bearing on what we say^w type here. But the neologisms
s/he, hern ey etc are interesting, if awkward. I'm old-fashioned enough
to think 'they' is plural, though.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
b***@shaw.ca
2019-11-14 21:24:09 UTC
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Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
On Thu, 14 Nov 2019 12:18:31 -0500, Quinn C
[I cut a bit and changed the header]
You really don't understand. I'm not forcing gender on you. I'm
simply writing sentences that are clear references. If I write
"There's a poster here that goes by the name "Quinn". He or she lives
in Canada." I'm not forcing gender on you. If I write "There's a
poster here that goes by the name "Quinn". They live in Canada." I am
writing sentences that are not clear to most readers.
I'm not making it your problem. It was yours all along, you - people
who think like you - created it and made it mine. No more.
The more you (Tony Cooper) argue, the more I side with Quinn; gender
should have no bearing on what we say^w type here. But the neologisms
s/he, hern ey etc are interesting, if awkward. I'm old-fashioned enough
to think 'they' is plural, though.
You were born before the 14th century? That was when the singular "they"
first emerged in English. It has waxed and wanted since then,
but has never gone away. I have read online that its use is
currently increasing as more people ask not to be referred to
as "he" or "she".

bill
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-11-14 20:53:10 UTC
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[]
Weren't carrots originally purple?  What are the carrots being fed?
Shrimps?
Note to self: Read ahead before clicking "Send".
Where's the fun in that? I keep losing the note anyway.
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Kerr-Mudd,John
2019-11-14 20:55:20 UTC
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Permalink
"$name" is some sort of computer lingo?
Yes. The $ prefix signifies the contiguous chunk of characters
("token") as a variable. It is a convention common in the Unix
milieu. In programming, using descriptive variable names is
preferred to using simple X's and Y's.
I can't believe Peter has been around Usenet this long without being
aware of this. Seriously??
I didn't answer the question because I don't believe he wants to
learn
this. Even if I explain it now, he'll ask again next time. He
wouldn't
touch "some kind of computer lingo" with a ten-foot page turning
device.
It's very simple. Imagine you're writing a program which uses the
value
of pi. Instead of writing 3.141592 at every instance
You should never do that.
you would say
pi=3.141592 and use "$pi" instead wherever it appears instead of that
constant.
You should never do that either. Rounded to the sixth place, pi=
3.141693

Nice try! How about 3.0 instead!

My attempt; pi=3.14159 (to 6 sig figs)
--
Bah, and indeed, Humbug.
Ken Blake
2019-11-14 21:55:39 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
"$name" is some sort of computer lingo?
Yes. The $ prefix signifies the contiguous chunk of characters
("token") as a variable. It is a convention common in the Unix
milieu. In programming, using descriptive variable names is
preferred to using simple X's and Y's.
I can't believe Peter has been around Usenet this long without being
aware of this. Seriously??
I didn't answer the question because I don't believe he wants to
learn
this. Even if I explain it now, he'll ask again next time. He
wouldn't
touch "some kind of computer lingo" with a ten-foot page turning
device.
It's very simple. Imagine you're writing a program which uses the
value
of pi. Instead of writing 3.141592 at every instance
You should never do that.
you would say
pi=3.141592 and use "$pi" instead wherever it appears instead of that
constant.
You should never do that either. Rounded to the sixth place, pi=
3.141693
Nice try! How about 3.0 instead!
My attempt; pi=3.14159 (to 6 sig figs)
I think almost anybody else would have understood that six decimal
places was what was meant.
--
Ken
RH Draney
2019-11-14 23:17:05 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Ken Blake
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
It's very simple.  Imagine you're writing a program which uses the
value
of pi.  Instead of writing 3.141592 at every instance
You should never do that.
you would say
pi=3.141592 and use "$pi" instead wherever it appears instead of that
constant.
You should never do that either. Rounded to the sixth place, pi=
3.141693
Nice try! How about 3.0 instead!
My attempt; pi=3.14159 (to 6 sig figs)
I think almost anybody else would have understood that six decimal
places was what was meant.
Back when I was writing programs in BASIC, the dodge I came up with was
"4*ATN(1)"....r
Athel Cornish-Bowden
2019-11-15 06:35:02 UTC
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Post by Ken Blake
Post by Kerr-Mudd,John
"$name" is some sort of computer lingo?
Yes. The $ prefix signifies the contiguous chunk of characters
("token") as a variable. It is a convention common in the Unix
milieu. In programming, using descriptive variable names is
preferred to using simple X's and Y's.
I can't believe Peter has been around Usenet this long without being
aware of this. Seriously??
I didn't answer the question because I don't believe he wants to
learn
this. Even if I explain it now, he'll ask again next time. He
wouldn't
touch "some kind of computer lingo" with a ten-foot page turning
device.
It's very simple. Imagine you're writing a program which uses the
value
of pi. Instead of writing 3.141592 at every instance
You should never do that.
you would say
pi=3.141592 and use "$pi" instead wherever it appears instead of that
constant.
You should never do that either. Rounded to the sixth place, pi=
3.141693
Nice try! How about 3.0 instead!
My attempt; pi=3.14159 (to 6 sig figs)
I think almost anybody else would have understood that six decimal
places was what was meant.
I think he wasn't worrying about that but objecting to the particular
value you gave, after the 141.
--
athel
Peter Duncanson [BrE]
2019-11-14 22:00:34 UTC
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...
Once, in a group of friends - not close ones, fortunately -, someone
accidentally referred to an absent person as "big $name", and they
grudgingly admitted that I was "little $name" to them.
Was ey an Eskimo?
"$name" is some sort of computer lingo?
By &Deity; I think you're right!
Ah, I C you know the right way to address a deity!
No, you address a deity in the vocative: "O &Deity;".
That's not addressing; that's a bitwise AND operation. If you want to
call(&Deity);
Less technial is OMG.
--
Peter Duncanson, UK
(in alt.usage.english)
Jerry Friedman
2019-11-14 22:25:46 UTC
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On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 12:52:04 PM UTC-7, Athel
[ … ]
The majority of store employees can visually ascertain that a
clear
plastic bag labeled "onions", but contains packages of smoked
salmon
is cause for alarm.   Carrots might be a more difficult call
since the
color of carrots and smoked salmon is similar.
Not entirely surprising as they owe their colour to the same dye.
I do not believe that salmon eat carrots.
I didn't ask you to! Carrots and salmon both owe their colour to
carotene.
Farmed salmon get carotenoid supplements to give them a nice salmony
color--I don't know whether it benefits their health or theconsumers'
at all--but apparently it doesn't come from carrots.
Yes, but carrots are not the only natural source of carotene. Wild
salmon get it mainly from shrimps. Where the shrimps get it from I
don't know, but I don't think they eat carrots either.
 From scavenging dead flamingos, of course.
So what you're saying is that flamingos eat carrots.
Only dead flamingos.
So what you're saying is that carrots are poisonous.
I always suspected something of the kind.
Too much Vitamin A can be poisonous.
Yes. Among well known substances vitamin A rivals digitalis in its
therapeutic index. As far as I remember the minimum effective dose for
digitalis is about half the lethal dose. For vitamin A it's more like
1:10.
I don't think that's right.

"The recommended daily amount of vitamin A is 900 micrograms (mcg)
for adult men and 700 mcg for adult women.

[...]

"Too much vitamin A can be harmful. Even a single large dose — over
200,000 mcg — can cause:

* Nausea
* Vomiting
* Vertigo
* Blurry vision"

https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements-vitamin-a/art-20365945

(They're glossing over the different effectiveness of various
carotenes.)
--
Jerry Friedman
Peter Moylan
2019-11-14 23:14:23 UTC
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On Thursday, November 14, 2019 at 10:17:13 AM UTC-8, Peter Young
I've seen variously coloured carrots in our local farm market, but
not recently.
I pass by a greengrocer several times a week where the outdoor
vegetable stand usually has bunches of carrots of various colours.
Memory says they're labelled organic, and people who are fussy about
the vegetables they grow will often cultivate older versions rather
than have everything look the same, as it does in most supermarkets.
I don't know if they sell heirloom tomatoes where you live, but they
are often oddly shaped with different colours and superb flavour
compared with mainstream tomatoes. I love them, especially in
salads.
Tomatoes are a classic case of the taste being bred out. They've been
bred for some other quality - size, perhaps, or shelf life - and as a
side-effect most of the taste was lost.

These days I eat mainly the small varieties of tomato, because they
still have a tomato taste. That's what I'm growing in my back yard.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter Moylan
2019-11-15 00:30:07 UTC
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Permalink
Yes, but carrots are not the only natural source of carotene. Wild
salmon get it mainly from shrimps. Where the shrimps get it from I
don't know, but I don't think they eat carrots either.
From scavenging dead flamingos, of course.
So what you're saying is that flamingos eat carrots.
Only dead flamingos.
So what you're saying is that carrots are poisonous.
I always suspected something of the kind.
Too much Vitamin A can be poisonous.
That's what killed the flamingos.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter Moylan
2019-11-15 00:37:34 UTC
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Permalink
It's very simple. Imagine you're writing a program which uses the
value of pi. Instead of writing 3.141592 at every instance you would
say pi=3.141592 and use "$pi" instead wherever it appears instead of
that constant. "This also simplifies modifying the program, should
the value of pi change."
In an expanding universe, and assuming no new matter is being created,
space should become flatter; therefore pi should approach a constant value.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Peter Moylan
2019-11-15 00:39:25 UTC
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Permalink
...
Once, in a group of friends - not close ones, fortunately -, someone
accidentally referred to an absent person as "big $name", and they
grudgingly admitted that I was "little $name" to them.
Was ey an Eskimo?
"$name" is some sort of computer lingo?
By &Deity; I think you're right!
Ah, I C you know the right way to address a deity!
No, you address a deity in the vocative: "O &Deity;".
Only if the deity is a mouse.
--
Peter Moylan http://www.pmoylan.org
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-15 02:10:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 12:52:04 PM UTC-7, Athel
[ … ]
The majority of store employees can visually ascertain that a
clear
plastic bag labeled "onions", but contains packages of smoked
salmon
is cause for alarm.   Carrots might be a more difficult call
since the
color of carrots and smoked salmon is similar.
Not entirely surprising as they owe their colour to the same dye.
I do not believe that salmon eat carrots.
I didn't ask you to! Carrots and salmon both owe their colour to
carotene.
Farmed salmon get carotenoid supplements to give them a nice salmony
color--I don't know whether it benefits their health or theconsumers'
at all--but apparently it doesn't come from carrots.
Yes, but carrots are not the only natural source of carotene. Wild
salmon get it mainly from shrimps. Where the shrimps get it from I
don't know, but I don't think they eat carrots either.
 From scavenging dead flamingos, of course.
So what you're saying is that flamingos eat carrots.
Only dead flamingos.
So what you're saying is that carrots are poisonous.
I always suspected something of the kind.
Too much Vitamin A can be poisonous.
Too much of anything can be poisonous. That's kind of what "too much" means.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-15 02:22:45 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Wednesday, November 13, 2019 at 12:52:04 PM UTC-7, Athel
[ … ]
The majority of store employees can visually ascertain that a
clear
plastic bag labeled "onions", but contains packages of smoked
salmon
is cause for alarm.   Carrots might be a more difficult call
since the
color of carrots and smoked salmon is similar.
Not entirely surprising as they owe their colour to the same dye.
I do not believe that salmon eat carrots.
I didn't ask you to! Carrots and salmon both owe their colour to
carotene.
Farmed salmon get carotenoid supplements to give them a nice salmony
color--I don't know whether it benefits their health or
theconsumers'
at all--but apparently it doesn't come from carrots.
Yes, but carrots are not the only natural source of carotene. Wild
salmon get it mainly from shrimps. Where the shrimps get it from I
don't know, but I don't think they eat carrots either.
 From scavenging dead flamingos, of course.
So what you're saying is that flamingos eat carrots.
Only dead flamingos.
So what you're saying is that carrots are poisonous.
No, of course not. If they were poisonous a live flamingo that ate a
carrot would die.
And they *do* die... eventually.

On being informed that coffee is a slow poison, Voltaire (attrib)
replied: "Slow it must be indeed, for I have sipped it for 75 years."

(Voltaire is said to have drunk 50+ cups of coffee per day.)
But live flamingos don't eat carrots; only dead
flamingos do.
Talking of dead flamingos, the word "flamingo" appeared in the Guinness
Book of Names, in the category of notable boat names. It took me a while
to work out why.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
Madhu
2019-11-15 02:25:10 UTC
Reply
Permalink
It's very simple. Imagine you're writing a program which uses the
value of pi. Instead of writing 3.141592 at every instance
You should never do that.
you would say
pi=3.141592 and use "$pi" instead wherever it appears instead of that
constant.
You should never do that either. Rounded to the sixth place, pi=3.141693
Indeed.

I botched it up when cutpasting . FWIW Here's the original:

%
The primary purpose of the DATA statement is to give names to constants;
instead of referring to pi as 3.141592653589793 at every appearance, the
variable PI can be given that value with a DATA statement and used instead
of the longer form of the constant. This also simplifies modifying the
program, should the value of pi change.
-- FORTRAN manual for Xerox Computers
Richard Heathfield
2019-11-15 02:27:46 UTC
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Permalink
"$name" is some sort of computer lingo?
Yes.  The $ prefix signifies the contiguous chunk of characters
("token") as a variable.  It is a convention common in the Unix
milieu.  In programming, using descriptive variable names is
preferred to using simple X's and Y's.
I can't believe Peter has been around Usenet this long without being
aware of this.  Seriously??
I didn't answer the question because I don't believe he wants to learn
this. Even if I explain it now, he'll ask again next time. He wouldn't
touch "some kind of computer lingo" with a ten-foot page turning
device.
It's very simple.  Imagine you're writing a program which uses the value
of pi.  Instead of writing 3.141592 at every instance
You should never do that.
you would say
pi=3.141592 and use "$pi" instead wherever it appears instead of that
constant.
You should never do that either. Rounded to the sixth place, pi=3.141693
Was that deliberate? (4th decimal place)

I generally just stick it in a macro:

#define PI 3.14159265358979323846

Pi to 20dp is easy to remember because:

Sir, I bear a rhyme excelling
In mystic force and magic spelling;
Celestial sprites elucidate
All my own striving can't relate.
--
Richard Heathfield
Email: rjh at cpax dot org dot uk
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line 4 vacant - apply within
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