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Adam Funk
2019-12-02 13:33:17 UTC
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A few US states join Afghanistan and North Korea on the list of
polities without any proper rules in the matter of birth
certificates.
<https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-failure-birth-certificate-gender-changes-international-problem/>
Even taking into account your views on the matter, I must confess
that I have a hard time seeing that the birth certificate in the
specific case mentioned in this article should be wrong: The birth
certificate documents the state of affairs at the time of the
person's birth; I fail to see why changing those affairs at at later
date (by surgery in this case) should affect said certificate.
I know a number of adoptees who are very much opposed to the faking of
birth certificates, by changing the details that were true at the time
of birth to those that applied at the time of adoption.
What if a detail *believed to be true* at the time of birth turns out
to be different from what was true then, e.g., paternity?
Those people
make up a significant political force. A good deal of the "DNA
genealogy" that is happening now is from adoptees trying to move beyond
the faked certificates to their real ancestry.
If the gender-neutral people succeed in their push to have birth
certificates altered, that would upset the very much larger group of
adoptees fighting to have their real birth certificates revealed.
What *is* strange here is that Texas finds that bathroom visits
should depend on how you looked when you were born, rather than at
the time of going to the bathroom.
If I ever visit Texas again, I'll be sorely tempted to piss in a women's
toilet, just to heap scorn on their laws. The "bathroom visits" aspect
is almost orthogonal to the question of birth certificates. Why can't
they just introduce unisex toilets?
I've been in public toilets in both Canada and France where Madame Pipi
had a clear view of me standing at a urinal. I very much doubt that she
got a thrill from looking at my back. If a woman can see a man's back at
a urinal, why can't men see the closed door in a women's facility?
--
I only regret that I have but one shirt to give for my country.
---Abbie Hoffman
Adam Funk
2019-12-02 13:34:08 UTC
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Permalink
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 13:12:25 +0100, "Anders D. Nygaard"
A few US states join Afghanistan and North Korea on the list of
polities without any proper rules in the matter of birth certificates.
<https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-failure-birth-certificate-gender-changes-international-problem/>
Even taking into account your views on the matter, I must confess
that I have a hard time seeing that the birth certificate in the
The birth certificate documents the state of affairs at the time
of the person's birth; I fail to see why changing those affairs at
at later date (by surgery in this case) should affect said certificate.
What *is* strange here is that Texas finds that bathroom visits
should depend on how you looked when you were born, rather than
at the time of going to the bathroom.
/Anders, Denmark.
The Texas bathroom bill was not an attempt to force people to use the
bathroom consistent with their birth sex. Not all bathroom users, at
any rate. It was a bill that attempted to require this in public
schools, public universities, and government buildings. It was not to
be enforced in any other bathroom locations.
I should interject here that it was a ridiculous proposal in the first
place, and the limited application does not make it less ridiculous.
I say that lest someone thinks I found the bill to be in any way
acceptable.
Politicians propose bills like this as a sop to their base. In any
politician's district there are some cause-specific whackos, and if
that district has enough of them, the politician has to throw them a
bone once in a while to keep the district's vote. In Texas, those
cause-specific whackos are in greater numbers than they might be
elsewhere.
A large number of bills of this type are proposed, passed, and then
challenged in the courts and ruled unlawful. The politicians don't
care that the bill will never result in extant law.
Or (in Ohio, for example) that they are mandating something
scientifically impossible.
They can still go
to their district and tell those whacko supporters "I tried. I'm on
your side. Vote for me."
--
The love of money as a possession ... will be recognised for what it
is, a somewhat disgusting morbidity, one of those semi-criminal,
semi-pathological propensities which one hands over with a shudder to
the specialists in mental disease. ---J M Keynes
Jerry Friedman
2019-12-02 14:24:20 UTC
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Post by Adam Funk
A few US states join Afghanistan and North Korea on the list of
polities without any proper rules in the matter of birth
certificates.
<https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-failure-birth-certificate-gender-changes-international-problem/>
Even taking into account your views on the matter, I must confess
that I have a hard time seeing that the birth certificate in the
specific case mentioned in this article should be wrong: The birth
certificate documents the state of affairs at the time of the
person's birth; I fail to see why changing those affairs at at later
date (by surgery in this case) should affect said certificate.
I know a number of adoptees who are very much opposed to the faking of
birth certificates, by changing the details that were true at the time
of birth to those that applied at the time of adoption.
What if a detail *believed to be true* at the time of birth turns out
to be different from what was true then, e.g., paternity?
...

Or in extremely rare cases, biological sex.
--
Jerry Friedman
Adam Funk
2019-12-02 15:15:45 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Adam Funk
A few US states join Afghanistan and North Korea on the list of
polities without any proper rules in the matter of birth
certificates.
<https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-failure-birth-certificate-gender-changes-international-problem/>
Even taking into account your views on the matter, I must confess
that I have a hard time seeing that the birth certificate in the
specific case mentioned in this article should be wrong: The birth
certificate documents the state of affairs at the time of the
person's birth; I fail to see why changing those affairs at at later
date (by surgery in this case) should affect said certificate.
I know a number of adoptees who are very much opposed to the faking of
birth certificates, by changing the details that were true at the time
of birth to those that applied at the time of adoption.
What if a detail *believed to be true* at the time of birth turns out
to be different from what was true then, e.g., paternity?
...
Or in extremely rare cases, biological sex.
Well, that raises the question of what constitutes "biological sex at
the time of birth". I assume what's recorded on the birth certificate
is still done by inspecting genitalia. If the sex chromosomes don't
match that result, which one should be used?

It's also possible for the human-DNA portion [1] of a human to have
constituents with different DNA from a subsumed twin. I suppose it's
possible for a chimera to include more than one combination of sex
chromosomes too.


[1] As opposed to the microbiome, which obviously has lots of kinds of
DNA different from the human kind.
--
I don't quite understand this worship of objectivity in
journalism. Now, just flat-out lying is different from being
subjective. ---Hunter S Thompson
Quinn C
2019-12-02 17:48:20 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
Post by Jerry Friedman
Post by Adam Funk
A few US states join Afghanistan and North Korea on the list of
polities without any proper rules in the matter of birth
certificates.
<https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-failure-birth-certificate-gender-changes-international-problem/>
Even taking into account your views on the matter, I must confess
that I have a hard time seeing that the birth certificate in the
specific case mentioned in this article should be wrong: The birth
certificate documents the state of affairs at the time of the
person's birth; I fail to see why changing those affairs at at later
date (by surgery in this case) should affect said certificate.
I know a number of adoptees who are very much opposed to the faking of
birth certificates, by changing the details that were true at the time
of birth to those that applied at the time of adoption.
What if a detail *believed to be true* at the time of birth turns out
to be different from what was true then, e.g., paternity?
...
Or in extremely rare cases, biological sex.
Well, that raises the question of what constitutes "biological sex at
the time of birth". I assume what's recorded on the birth certificate
is still done by inspecting genitalia. If the sex chromosomes don't
match that result, which one should be used?
The correct answer would be "intersex", I guess. But, as I have
explained elsewhere, this is decided by doctors and should be treated
as a medical observation, and maybe not make it into a civil record.
Post by Adam Funk
It's also possible for the human-DNA portion [1] of a human to have
constituents with different DNA from a subsumed twin. I suppose it's
possible for a chimera to include more than one combination of sex
chromosomes too.
I've never heard of such a case, but apparently they exist.

| And yes, if the twins are boy/girl, the girl could end up with some
| male chromosomes and the boy with female chromosomes. Does this have
| visible effects? Sometimes.

<https://www.babycenter.com/0_strange-but-true-one-person-born-with-two-sets-of-dna-a-chim_10364937.bc>
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Jerry Friedman
2019-12-02 14:30:03 UTC
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Permalink
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019, at 13:17:51, Jerry Friedman
A few US states join Afghanistan and North Korea on the list of
polities without any proper rules in the matter of birth
certificates.
<https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-failure-birth-certificate-gender
-changes-international-problem/>
Even taking into account your views on the matter, I must confess
that I have a hard time seeing that the birth certificate in the
specific case mentioned in this article should be wrong: The birth
certificate documents the state of affairs at the time of the
person's birth; I fail to see why changing those affairs at at later
date (by surgery in this case) should affect said certificate.
 I know a number of adoptees who are very much opposed to the faking of
birth certificates, by changing the details that were true at the time
of birth to those that applied at the time of adoption. Those people
make up a significant political force. A good deal of the "DNA
genealogy" that is happening now is from adoptees trying to move beyond
the faked certificates to their real ancestry.
 If the gender-neutral people succeed in their push to have birth
certificates altered, that would upset the very much larger group of
adoptees fighting to have their real birth certificates revealed.
My sister is adopted.  She had her birth certificate changed, not for
any reason related to her biological parents (who she has no interest
in), but as a way of changing the spelling of her first name.
One approach would be to let the person whose birth was recorded, but
no one else, change their birth certificate by a legal process.  The
original might be kept in some private way for historical purposes.
Here, which legally is England and Wales, a birth certificate is a
document which certifies (that is, states with legal authority) what is
recorded in the relevant Register of Births. No-one can change their own
birth certificate without falsifying it. And the Register, a public
record, is once and for all, as far as I know. No way should it be
tampered with. It would be like air-brushing comrades out of the Kremlin
line-up for the May-Day parade through Red Square.
Well, the possibility that there is now no record of the original
spelling of my sister's name bothers me less than air-brushing
uncomrades out of photos. But if the birth certificate is used for
other purposes such as certifying someone's name, I think it's quite
reasonable to replace it for those purposes with something that can be
changed.
--
Jerry Friedman
Tony Cooper
2019-12-02 15:16:57 UTC
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Permalink
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 07:30:03 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019, at 13:17:51, Jerry Friedman
A few US states join Afghanistan and North Korea on the list of
polities without any proper rules in the matter of birth
certificates.
<https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-failure-birth-certificate-gender
-changes-international-problem/>
Even taking into account your views on the matter, I must confess
that I have a hard time seeing that the birth certificate in the
specific case mentioned in this article should be wrong: The birth
certificate documents the state of affairs at the time of the
person's birth; I fail to see why changing those affairs at at later
date (by surgery in this case) should affect said certificate.
 I know a number of adoptees who are very much opposed to the faking of
birth certificates, by changing the details that were true at the time
of birth to those that applied at the time of adoption. Those people
make up a significant political force. A good deal of the "DNA
genealogy" that is happening now is from adoptees trying to move beyond
the faked certificates to their real ancestry.
 If the gender-neutral people succeed in their push to have birth
certificates altered, that would upset the very much larger group of
adoptees fighting to have their real birth certificates revealed.
My sister is adopted.  She had her birth certificate changed, not for
any reason related to her biological parents (who she has no interest
in), but as a way of changing the spelling of her first name.
One approach would be to let the person whose birth was recorded, but
no one else, change their birth certificate by a legal process.  The
original might be kept in some private way for historical purposes.
Here, which legally is England and Wales, a birth certificate is a
document which certifies (that is, states with legal authority) what is
recorded in the relevant Register of Births. No-one can change their own
birth certificate without falsifying it. And the Register, a public
record, is once and for all, as far as I know. No way should it be
tampered with. It would be like air-brushing comrades out of the Kremlin
line-up for the May-Day parade through Red Square.
Well, the possibility that there is now no record of the original
spelling of my sister's name bothers me less than air-brushing
uncomrades out of photos. But if the birth certificate is used for
other purposes such as certifying someone's name, I think it's quite
reasonable to replace it for those purposes with something that can be
changed.
If a person applies for a US passport, a birth certificate is
required. If the name and sex on the birth certificate is not the
same as the name and sex of the applicant, wouldn't it cause a
problem?

I wonder what Caitlyn Jenner's passport reads.
--
Tony Cooper - Orlando, Florida
Jerry Friedman
2019-12-02 19:21:44 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Tony Cooper
On Mon, 2 Dec 2019 07:30:03 -0700, Jerry Friedman
Post by Jerry Friedman
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019, at 13:17:51, Jerry Friedman
A few US states join Afghanistan and North Korea on the list of
polities without any proper rules in the matter of birth
certificates.
<https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-failure-birth-certificate-gender
-changes-international-problem/>
Even taking into account your views on the matter, I must confess
that I have a hard time seeing that the birth certificate in the
specific case mentioned in this article should be wrong: The birth
certificate documents the state of affairs at the time of the
person's birth; I fail to see why changing those affairs at at later
date (by surgery in this case) should affect said certificate.
 I know a number of adoptees who are very much opposed to the faking of
birth certificates, by changing the details that were true at the time
of birth to those that applied at the time of adoption. Those people
make up a significant political force. A good deal of the "DNA
genealogy" that is happening now is from adoptees trying to move beyond
the faked certificates to their real ancestry.
 If the gender-neutral people succeed in their push to have birth
certificates altered, that would upset the very much larger group of
adoptees fighting to have their real birth certificates revealed.
My sister is adopted.  She had her birth certificate changed, not for
any reason related to her biological parents (who she has no interest
in), but as a way of changing the spelling of her first name.
One approach would be to let the person whose birth was recorded, but
no one else, change their birth certificate by a legal process.  The
original might be kept in some private way for historical purposes.
Here, which legally is England and Wales, a birth certificate is a
document which certifies (that is, states with legal authority) what is
recorded in the relevant Register of Births. No-one can change their own
birth certificate without falsifying it. And the Register, a public
record, is once and for all, as far as I know. No way should it be
tampered with. It would be like air-brushing comrades out of the Kremlin
line-up for the May-Day parade through Red Square.
Well, the possibility that there is now no record of the original
spelling of my sister's name bothers me less than air-brushing
uncomrades out of photos. But if the birth certificate is used for
other purposes such as certifying someone's name, I think it's quite
reasonable to replace it for those purposes with something that can be
changed.
If a person applies for a US passport, a birth certificate is
required. If the name and sex on the birth certificate is not the
same as the name and sex of the applicant, wouldn't it cause a
problem?
I wonder what Caitlyn Jenner's passport reads.
Many people change their names. I don't know how the passport office
handles that, but I assume only the current name appears on the passport.
It seems to me that gender changes should be handled the same way. I
have no idea how they're actually handled.
--
Jerry Friedman
Jerry Friedman
2019-12-02 14:59:37 UTC
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Permalink
...
The hardest one though was one blindfold game while also playing table
tennis. I won both games--the chess game because my opponent wasn't very
good, and the table tennis game because, although my opponent was much
better than me, he tried to follow the chess game and paid more
attention to it than the table tennis game.
Alan Turing's 'round the house chess' never caught on.
You move, get up, run round the house,
and when you sit down again your opponent must move.
Few could match his combination of thinking
and physical fitness, it seems,
Chessboxing is more popular these days.
Never heard of it, but wikip informs me that it is a Dutch invention.
Well, sort of. The first actual competition was in Berlin, it says.

It may be unfortunate that the sport combined with chess is boxing,
which of all the combat sports does the most damage to the brain--or
that's my impression.
The real inventor though is Enki Bilal,
a French comic book artist, in his album 'Froid Equateur'. (1992)
I don't know much about comics, but is "album" the right word?
(who seems to be completely unknown in the USA)
...

Completely unknown to this American, but so are many well-known
comic-book artists and writers.
--
Jerry Friedman
Adam Funk
2019-12-02 15:10:17 UTC
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Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
The hardest one though was one blindfold game while also playing table
tennis. I won both games--the chess game because my opponent wasn't very
good, and the table tennis game because, although my opponent was much
better than me, he tried to follow the chess game and paid more
attention to it than the table tennis game.
Alan Turing's 'round the house chess' never caught on.
You move, get up, run round the house,
and when you sit down again your opponent must move.
Few could match his combination of thinking
and physical fitness, it seems,
Chessboxing is more popular these days.
Never heard of it, but wikip informs me that it is a Dutch invention.
Well, sort of. The first actual competition was in Berlin, it says.
It may be unfortunate that the sport combined with chess is boxing,
which of all the combat sports does the most damage to the brain--or
that's my impression.
The real inventor though is Enki Bilal,
a French comic book artist, in his album 'Froid Equateur'. (1992)
I don't know much about comics, but is "album" the right word?
Well, it is in French.
Post by Jerry Friedman
(who seems to be completely unknown in the USA)
...
Completely unknown to this American, but so are many well-known
comic-book artists and writers.
--
Ambassador Trentino: "I am willing to do anything to prevent this
war."
President Firefly: "It's too late. I've already paid a month's
rent on the battlefield." _Duck Soup_
J. J. Lodder
2019-12-02 15:44:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
...
The hardest one though was one blindfold game while also playing table
tennis. I won both games--the chess game because my opponent wasn't very
good, and the table tennis game because, although my opponent was much
better than me, he tried to follow the chess game and paid more
attention to it than the table tennis game.
Alan Turing's 'round the house chess' never caught on.
You move, get up, run round the house,
and when you sit down again your opponent must move.
Few could match his combination of thinking
and physical fitness, it seems,
Chessboxing is more popular these days.
Never heard of it, but wikip informs me that it is a Dutch invention.
Well, sort of. The first actual competition was in Berlin, it says.
I think it is the nationality of the inventor that counts,
no matter where he does his thing, and even if he is unknown
in his country of origin.
Post by Jerry Friedman
It may be unfortunate that the sport combined with chess is boxing,
which of all the combat sports does the most damage to the brain--or
that's my impression.
Wikip says other variants exist, with doing push-ups,
or running stairs, so more like Turing's original.
Post by Jerry Friedman
The real inventor though is Enki Bilal,
a French comic book artist, in his album 'Froid Equateur'. (1992)
I don't know much about comics, but is "album" the right word?
Yes. <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandes_dessin%C3%A9es#Formats>
Post by Jerry Friedman
(who seems to be completely unknown in the USA)
...
Completely unknown to this American, but so are many well-known
comic-book artists and writers.
The French made an art form out of their BD.
(far superior to American junk like Marvel or DC)

They did not have to put up with the self-censorship
enforced by your Comics Code Authority,

Jan
Quinn C
2019-12-02 17:57:02 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Jerry Friedman
Chessboxing is more popular these days.
Never heard of it, but wikip informs me that it is a Dutch invention.
Well, sort of. The first actual competition was in Berlin, it says.
It may be unfortunate that the sport combined with chess is boxing,
which of all the combat sports does the most damage to the brain--or
that's my impression.
"Invented ... as an art performance", so I suspect there was some
intentional absurdity.
Post by Jerry Friedman
The real inventor though is Enki Bilal,
a French comic book artist, in his album 'Froid Equateur'. (1992)
I don't know much about comics, but is "album" the right word?
English Wikipedia calls it "a graphic novel."
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Peter T. Daniels
2019-12-02 15:09:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I have no beef with Microsoft, but I don't see a need to use their
wordprocessing or spreadsheet apps when Open Office does the same
thing for free.
Does a few of the same things. I was stuck with it once when the computer
was in the shop and I had a Linux box: OpenOffice couldn't even do small
capitals.
Jerry Friedman
2019-12-02 15:14:07 UTC
Reply
Permalink
I've played many games of blindfold chess and won almost all of them.
The record for simultaneous blindfold games used to be 45 (an enormous
number; it boggles my mind that anyone could do that), but I think it's
been broken recently. The most I ever played at once was three. That was
very hard, and the only reason I managed it was that I won all very
three quickly.
The hardest one though was one blindfold game while also playing table
tennis. I won both games--the chess game because my opponent wasn't very
good, and the table tennis game because, although my opponent was much
better than me, he tried to follow the chess game and paid more
attention to it than the table tennis game.
Alan Turing's 'round the house chess' never caught on.
You move, get up, run round the house,
and when you sit down again your opponent must move.
Few could match his combination of thinking
and physical fitness, it seems,
Chessboxing is more popular these days.
ObVocab: "Chessboxing" or "chess boxing" is a dvandva.
--
Jerry Friedman
Paul Wolff
2019-12-02 16:01:23 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Post by Adam Funk
A few US states join Afghanistan and North Korea on the list of
polities without any proper rules in the matter of birth
certificates.
<https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-failure-birth-certificate-gender
-changes-international-problem/>
Even taking into account your views on the matter, I must confess
that I have a hard time seeing that the birth certificate in the
specific case mentioned in this article should be wrong: The birth
certificate documents the state of affairs at the time of the
person's birth; I fail to see why changing those affairs at at later
date (by surgery in this case) should affect said certificate.
I know a number of adoptees who are very much opposed to the faking of
birth certificates, by changing the details that were true at the time
of birth to those that applied at the time of adoption.
What if a detail *believed to be true* at the time of birth turns out
to be different from what was true then, e.g., paternity?
The Register of Births tells what was reported to the Registrar at the
time. That's its whole purpose, I think. If you want an official
register of anything else, then create that parallel register, like a
Census record for example; otherwise, provide the original Register with
spaces for subsequent dated official endorsements reciting corrections
or other amendments. But don't erase the original record, please.
--
Paul
Quinn C
2019-12-02 17:41:35 UTC
Reply
Permalink
A few US states join Afghanistan and North Korea on the list of
polities without any proper rules in the matter of birth
certificates.
<https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-failure-birth-certificate-gender-changes-international-problem/>
Even taking into account your views on the matter, I must confess
that I have a hard time seeing that the birth certificate in the
specific case mentioned in this article should be wrong: The birth
certificate documents the state of affairs at the time of the
person's birth; I fail to see why changing those affairs at at later
date (by surgery in this case) should affect said certificate.
I know a number of adoptees who are very much opposed to the faking of
birth certificates, by changing the details that were true at the time
of birth to those that applied at the time of adoption.
But it's also not fair to put the burden of that onto trans people.

The problem is in the societal practice. Most people who can ask to see
your birth certificate don't have a legitimate interest in knowing
medical details about you. So even though it says "sex", this entry is
often understood to specify gender. And most trans people wouldn't
agree that their gender has changed. Problem is you don't have a
gender at birth.
If the gender-neutral people succeed in their push to have birth
certificates altered, that would upset the very much larger group of
adoptees fighting to have their real birth certificates revealed.
Number of people isn't a good argument, so I won't point out that this
numerical relation is unlikely to stay the same for long.
--
Quinn C
My pronouns are they/them
(or other gender-neutral ones)
Anders D. Nygaard
2019-12-02 17:51:31 UTC
Reply
Permalink
A few US states join Afghanistan and North Korea on the list of
polities without any proper rules in the matter of birth certificates.
<https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-failure-birth-certificate-gender-changes-international-problem/>
Even taking into account your views on the matter, I must confess
that I have a hard time seeing that the birth certificate in the
The birth certificate documents the state of affairs at the time
of the person's birth; I fail to see why changing those affairs at
at later date (by surgery in this case) should affect said certificate.
Let me try to explain this from a somewhat different angle. In the
case of a trans person, gender assigned at birth is private and
sensitive information. But the "sex" field of the birth certificate
isn't generally treated as private and sensitive information.
Why the distinction ...
Maybe what needs to change is the latter. My ultimate goal is to get
sex/gender off any general ID documents anyway. It can be kept on
medical records; we are used to treating those with a little more
secrecy.
... as both sex and gender could equally well be considered private and
sensitive, AFAICS. And no, it would not bother me to see your suggested
change implemented - but I suspect that removing sex/gender information
from passports (where the distinction is not made) will meet opposition
from some of the countries you might have an interest in visiting.

/Anders, Denmark.
Janet
2019-12-02 18:02:46 UTC
Reply
Permalink
On Sun, 1 Dec 2019, at 13:17:51, Jerry Friedman
A few US states join Afghanistan and North Korea on the list of
polities without any proper rules in the matter of birth
certificates.
<https://www.texasobserver.org/texas-failure-birth-certificate-gender
-changes-international-problem/>
Even taking into account your views on the matter, I must confess
that I have a hard time seeing that the birth certificate in the
specific case mentioned in this article should be wrong: The birth
certificate documents the state of affairs at the time of the
person's birth; I fail to see why changing those affairs at at later
date (by surgery in this case) should affect said certificate.
I know a number of adoptees who are very much opposed to the faking
of
birth certificates, by changing the details that were true at the time
of birth to those that applied at the time of adoption. Those people
make up a significant political force. A good deal of the "DNA
genealogy" that is happening now is from adoptees trying to move beyond
the faked certificates to their real ancestry.
If the gender-neutral people succeed in their push to have birth
certificates altered, that would upset the very much larger group of
adoptees fighting to have their real birth certificates revealed.
My sister is adopted. She had her birth certificate changed, not for
any reason related to her biological parents (who she has no interest
in), but as a way of changing the spelling of her first name.
One approach would be to let the person whose birth was recorded, but
no one else, change their birth certificate by a legal process. The
original might be kept in some private way for historical purposes.
Here, which legally is England and Wales, a birth certificate is a
document which certifies (that is, states with legal authority) what is
recorded in the relevant Register of Births. No-one can change their own
birth certificate without falsifying it. And the Register, a public
record, is once and for all, as far as I know.
That is true for adopted persons (in England Wales and Scotland).
Their original birth certificate remains on the register, where they can
obtain it, as many do later when seeking their birth family.

Though for other purposes (like obtaining a passport, marrying)
adopted persons use the new ID ( new names and new parents),shown on
their Certificate of Adoption.

The only Brits who CAN get their birth certificate gender changed ,
are transgender people. Since 4 April 2005, as per the Gender
Recognition Act 2004, it is possible for transgender people to change
their legal gender in the UK, allowing them to acquire a new birth
certificate with their preferred gender on it.
(They are not required to have had surgery)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_Recognition_Act_2004

Janet
Anders D. Nygaard
2019-12-02 18:08:12 UTC
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On Sun, 1 Dec 2019 13:45:32 +0100, "Anders D. Nygaard"
I also have a laptop at work; when at my desk, it is hooked up to
a decent keyboard, a mouse, an external monitor (no, I do not want two,
thank you) and a headset
I have to laugh at this and the other similar comments. Not that
there is any wrong about the comments, though.
The benefit of a laptop used to be the portability of the
device...just grab it and go.
And that advantage I do have.
Now, though, when a laptop is used it is often coupled with the same
external devices that make a desktop unit unportable. The built-in
laptop features (keyboard, mouse, monitor screen) are not used.
Not when in the docking station, no (though some of my similarly-equipped
colleagues make active use of the built-in monitor as a third screen)
It's
even possible to attach an external drive and not use the internal
drive of the laptop.
Yes, I know you can uncouple all of the externals and use the laptop
as a portable device.
So what are you laughing about?

I should perhaps add that the additional price (to my employer) of
having a laptop as compared to a desktop is inconsequential in
comparison with the salary I'm paid.
In return I'm completely mobile, should the need arise, without having
to do extensive preparations to ensure that things work like I'm used to.

/Anders, Denmark.
RH Draney
2019-12-02 18:09:17 UTC
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Permalink
Not true, in my experience...when I decided to try it out (on an Apple
//c, which came with a built-in switch for changing the keyboard between
the two layouts) I quickly reached the same touchtyping speed I had
Was that a special option? I had a //e but no layout switch.
Bog standard for the //c....r
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